Creativity Is Connection with poet IN-Q | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

Business and poetry usually don’t mix. But vulnerability has the power to bring teams together.

Simon SinekhostGreat Minds IN-Qguest

Aug 7, 202438mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

30 min read · 5,989 words

0:00 – 2:33
Is “poetry” a liability?
1. SSSimon Sinek
  I have told that story before on stages. I don't well up like I used to.
2. ININ-Q
  Yeah.
3. SSSimon Sinek
  And I welled up here. This was simply emotion on a page.
4. ININ-Q
  There's something that happens when you create something with a story that's different than when you tell the story. When you're telling a story out loud, it's hard to separate it from the rest of your life.
5. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
6. ININ-Q
  But when you turn the language into a poem, it almost, like, encapsulates it, and then you separate it from you. It's outside of you.
7. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
8. ININ-Q
  And that space allows you to share it differently, and it allows you to internalize it differently.
9. SSSimon Sinek
  We tell stories largely for the benefit of others, and this exercise, the poem was meant for the benefit of me.
10. ININ-Q
  Mm-hmm.
11. SSSimon Sinek
  I just happened to share it with you.
12. ININ-Q
  That's right. [whimsical music]
13. SSSimon Sinek
  Do you think the word poem is a liability? When people hear poem, they're like, roses are red, violets are blue, you know?
14. ININ-Q
  Yes, it is.
15. SSSimon Sinek
  And the word-- when you say I'm, I'm a poet, people are like, "Oh, here we go." And when you say, "I'm gonna have you write a poem," it's a liability, right? Because the word poem or poetry has baggage.
16. ININ-Q
  Yeah, I mean, uh, I have-- My mind goes in different directions to respond. I mean, the first thing I'd say is some of the best art experiences I've ever had was while I was in the audience watching another poet on stage.
17. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm-hmm.
18. ININ-Q
  Because I know what it is, and I know what it can be, but that's because I've experienced it, to your point. Um, when I'm talking to people about what I do for a living, if I say I'm a writer, that's one conversation.
19. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
20. ININ-Q
  But if I say I'm a poet, they're either super interested, which is very rare, or they just start looking over my shoulder.
21. SSSimon Sinek
  What word-- If it-- Do you like the word I'm a poet? Do you like the word I write poems? Or if you had to-- if you got to choose your own word or your job description, how would you rather-- What would you rather it say on your business card? [laughs]
22. ININ-Q
  Well, the thing is that it is authentic. It's the truth.
23. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
24. ININ-Q
  I am a poet, and I'm many other things. I'm an author. I'm a facilitator. I'm, um, a songwriter, but I'm a poet.
25. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
26. ININ-Q
  And a lot of the foundational work of my art, it, it really does connect to that term.
27. SSSimon Sinek
  Do you have a favorite?
2:33 – 7:14
IN-Q shares a poem
1. ININ-Q
  So the real answer is that it's the-
2. SSSimon Sinek
  Don't tell me, "I love all my children equally." [laughs]
3. ININ-Q
  No, I don't. But it's the one that is closest to creation because that's the one that's closest to source.
4. SSSimon Sinek
  Okay. Will you share it?
5. ININ-Q
  Yes. It's the last one that I wrote. All right.
6. SSSimon Sinek
  Batter up.
7. ININ-Q
  I don't know is a perfectly appropriate answer to any question. I don't know, and I won't pretend to know to get attention. I don't know. Why does everybody have to have a perspective? I'm not taking a position can be a powerful position. I don't know. And I won't be forced to give you an opinion. I'm allowed to just listen. Silence is not always indifference. Silence is not always violence. Sometimes silence is just fucking silence. It's okay to be quiet. It's okay to be patient. I'm not yet an expert on this specific situation. I need more education. I need more information. I need more conversation. What I don't need is more posting from a random Jane or Jason living in their parents' basement. They don't know. But it's wasting space for me to tell them so, so I comment in my head instead and try to let it go. 'Cause I don't wanna use my voice to be a part of all the noise. I cherish freedom of speech, but also freedom of choice. And I won't blindly follow anyone. Get off our timelines. You're like what happens after arrogance and ignorance combine. So I remind myself to get offline and get some sunshine. I'm not lying to myself pretending everything is fine, but I do my best to be compassionate, considerate, and kind, to find the things we have in common even when we're not aligned. Because two truths can occupy the same space at the same time. It is not a personal attack on your mind. Three or four truths can occupy the same space at the same time. It is not a personal attack on your mind. More truths can occupy the same space at the same time than we can quantify inside our mortal minds, and I can empathize with all of them 'cause all of them are mine. Society is sick, but we ignore the truths for dollar signs. It's gotten to the point where being crazy has been normalized. They only pay attention when our mental health is monetized. They're paid for our attention, so we scroll until we're hypnotized. We think we're in control, but we believe what we've been advertised. The co-opting of pain, but having context is too complex to be made into a meme. And I don't know is not something that people wanna scream. 'Cause no one wants to die for standing in the in-between. They want a slogan that will amplify their fever dream. They wanna pacify or justify the rage that they're feeling. But revenge will make us use an olive branch to choke a dove. It feels good to hate together. It's almost like it's love. But I don't know.
8. SSSimon Sinek
  That is powerful.
9. ININ-Q
  [sighs]
10. SSSimon Sinek
  I hung on every word. Every word made sense. [smacks lips] Uh, one of my great joys is sitting here and watching you get lost in your words.
11. ININ-Q
  Thanks, man.
12. SSSimon Sinek
  You know? Like, being lost in your, in the notes that are coming out. Uh, and I, and I, and I think that's the true test of if, if you're being authentic. The true test of if you're fully present is if you get lost in the things you're saying. Um, th- I think one of the reasons I love talking to you is, um, because of what you do. You and
7:14 – 12:17
Corporate gigs and vulnerability
1. SSSimon Sinek
  I have shared stages before-
2. ININ-Q
  Yeah
3. SSSimon Sinek
  ... at events, and, uh, you know, you do corporate gigs. I think it's a very powerful thing that a corporation or an industry event hires a poet. It says something, I think, about not only the quality of your work, but, but the power of your art. Y- I think it's almost redefining what an artist's life could be. I don't think most spoken word artists think corporate, corporate gigs could really help. You know, I could spread my message this way.
4. ININ-Q
  Maybe when I was younger, I would've had judgment around it, but now I think it's one of the most powerful and important parts of me sharing my art, is getting a chance to connect with people.
5. SSSimon Sinek
  I would argue that it's actually more powerful because, you know, when you go to a poetry slam, the audience is filled with the converted. When you go to a corporate audience, you're, you're proselytizing. I mean, you're-
6. ININ-Q
  Yeah
7. SSSimon Sinek
  ... you're... I mean, it's, it's more powerful because it's an audience that it only took one person to hire you, but the rest of the audience is like, "Huh?"
8. ININ-Q
  They immediately hate me.
9. SSSimon Sinek
  I mean, you come in and your name is IN-Q. I mean, like-
10. ININ-Q
  [laughs]
11. SSSimon Sinek
  ... they don't even know to, like... What do they... They don't even know how to call you. Mr. Q?
12. ININ-Q
  But isn't it more gratifying-
13. SSSimon Sinek
  [laughs]
14. ININ-Q
  ... to watch people change their preconceived notion of what could be in front of your eyes by you just showing up and telling the truth, and then surprising them? Because oftentimes when I'm doing the workshops, I then get people who don't consider themselves poets at all-
15. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
16. ININ-Q
  ... to create their own poems that are meaningful to them, and to share them with their coworkers in a way that shocks them. So now they're, like, laughing, they're crying, and they literally can't believe it.
17. SSSimon Sinek
  What do you have to do in a workshop to take someone who has a left brain job, they're in finance, they're a lawyer, that you get them to a place of presence and creativity where they allow that right brain to flow, to access that part of their brain and discover that they have a creativity they never knew they had?
18. ININ-Q
  Well, one thing that I learned a long time ago is that if you want someone to be vulnerable with you, you have to be vulnerable first.
19. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm-hmm.
20. ININ-Q
  And if you are vulnerable first and they don't respond well, they might not have the capacity, it might not be the right container, or they might be an asshole.
21. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
22. ININ-Q
  And all of the above are okay. I don't need to convert everybody.
23. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
24. ININ-Q
  What I have to do is continue to show up over and over again in the time that I have the session with them.
25. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm-hmm.
26. ININ-Q
  And eventually, almost like a Rubik's Cube, it clicks. In the workplace, a lot of miscommunication comes from lack of context. People actually don't know who they're working with. And so if you have more context and you have a human container where they can have an experience together, it can lead to better communication, better collaboration, and better creation. If people were vulnerable in the workplace all the time, literally nothing would get done.
27. SSSimon Sinek
  Right.
28. ININ-Q
  But being vulnerable none of the time isn't working either.
29. SSSimon Sinek
  Yep.
30. ININ-Q
  So that's really why people hire me, is to come in and give them a container for that vulnerability.
12:17 – 20:37
IN-Q’s poem about meeting his father
1. SSSimon Sinek
  Okay.
2. ININ-Q
  I'm gonna do my example of the prompt. It's a, a poem about meeting my father for the first time when I was 15 years old. And when I'm doing this piece, I not only want you to think about the piece, but I want you to think about what it is that you would want to explore.
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Okay.
4. ININ-Q
  I'm staring at the number wondering if I should call. I can hear the tick-tock from the clock on the wall as it meshes with the thump-thump beat of my heart. Sometimes getting something started is the hardest part. I didn't meet my dad until I was 15. I had seen his photograph, but his image was sickening. A coward with a dick, but no balls to back it up. See, when he left me as a kid, I had cause for acting up. The funny thing about hate is the person you hate doesn't feel that hate. You feel that hate, but wait, the weight can be too much for a person to take, and personally, I was hurt, so I just locked it away. I was angry all the time, and I didn't know why. I couldn't handle my own rage, so I would hide it inside. Pretending everything was fine became a daily pastime. Time passed, and I started to believe in my own lies. I took it out on my mom because she raised me alone. The rage that I couldn't own had left me totally numb. It was like landmines in my mind that I didn't understand, so when the boy inside cried, the young man outside yelled. I think I learned about my masculinity from TV. The people weren't real, so I knew they couldn't leave me. I would sit there for hours right in front of the tube. The images that I saw were my depiction of truth. It was manhood in a box, and I bought into it. The censorship of anything inside of me that's sensitive. The sentence is a lifetime of tears suppressed in a stone face and overblown ego they've distracted through a paper chase. Back when I was nine, I imagined in my mind that my father was a spy working for the FBI, and that's why he couldn't stop by, write, or drop a line. He was off saving our lives from the bad guys, but that was just a lie that I used to get by so that you wouldn't see the tears welling up in my eyes. When you're rejected by the person that you're created by, you secretly feel like you don't have a right to your life. I thought if I confronted him that it would make it all right, but since I couldn't forgive him, it just recycled my spite. I remember meeting him for the first time. Every time a person passed by, I would ask, "Mom, is that him? I look a little like him, right? No? Oh. What about that guy?" And that was what it was like to meet the man that gave me my life, to shake his hand and look into his eyes. We talked till he apologized, then said our goodbyes. I walked away on my own. Then I began to cry. Now, for years after that, I acted like it was all resolved. I told him what I thought, so I figured my problems were solved, but they just reevolved. My insecurities were eating at my mental health. I took it out on the world because I hated myself. That's when I finally decided I needed some help. I got some therapy. I opened up. I started writing and sharing about my past. I got honest with myself, and I started chipping at my mask. I looked into the mirror and confronted what I saw, accepting the reflection by embracing every flaw, then directing the connection into breaking down the walls by reflecting the perfection of the God inside us all. I stopped focusing on everything that I had been hateful for, and I started focusing on everything I could be grateful for. And personally, there is a lot I can be thankful for. If pain is dragging you down, just cut the ankle cord. That's when the weight lifted, and I really started living. It's when my hate shifted, and I really started giving. It's when my fate twisted. It was like an ego exorcism. Your mind state can be the most powerful of prisons. My father never played catch with me or gave advice. But if nothing else, that man gave me life. And that's enough for me. If that is all he can ever give, 'cause I'm appreciative for every day I get to live. And even though I don't need my dad to validate me, I thought that I should write this poem to thank him for creating me. Because every moment we are alive is like a gift. And if that's not enough to forgive, then what is?
5. SSSimon Sinek
  Oh, thanks for sharing. You talk about being present. You've given-- You've shared that poem many, many times-
6. ININ-Q
  Yeah
7. SSSimon Sinek
  ... I have to believe. And yet, as I sit here and watch you, and the emotion well up in you as you share it, it's as if you're giving it for the first time. Is that what being present means?
8. ININ-Q
  I think being present means honoring the moment that you're in. Whether it's the best moment of your life or the worst moment of your life-
9. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm
10. ININ-Q
  ... it's the only moment of your life.
11. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
12. ININ-Q
  So here we are. I don't normally do that one for the corporate environments 'cause it goes a little bit deep. But I shared something that was real. And even though I performed it, it wasn't performative.
13. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
14. ININ-Q
  And so I would invite you or even whoever's listening to this to think back to a moment in your life that changed who you are, a moment where you walked into it one person and walked out another person, and explore it through a poem. It could rhyme if you want it to rhyme or not. It could be long if you want it to be long. It could be short if you want it to be short. But it has to be moving and meaningful. And if you do that, you might be surprised at what you create.
15. SSSimon Sinek
  Okay. Well, I'm gonna take a little break. I'm gonna write a poem. I'll be right back.
16. ININ-Q
  Great.
20:37 – 28:08
Simon writes a poem
1. SSSimon Sinek
  Okay, we're back. [laughs]
2. ININ-Q
  [laughs]
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Um, so we took a break, and, uh, we had the whole team who's here, uh, write a poem. And I have to say, if you're listening to this episode, I cannot encourage you more than to try this exercise.
4. ININ-Q
  Mm.
5. SSSimon Sinek
  Um, one of the folks in our team wrote about, uh, heartbreak as a teenager with such dignity and clarity of... We all were there listening. I mean, we were all there living it with him and feeling that heartbreak like it was our heartbreak. It was remarkable. One of our teammates, um, talked about what it means to be a mother and what motherhood has done and how it's changed her, and the love that poured out of that poem.
6. ININ-Q
  Mm.
7. SSSimon Sinek
  And one of our teammates chose not to read the poem, but told us what the poem was about, about being, um, uh, a difficult teenager, not appreciate, not appreciating the love that she had around her, and forgave herself. And she welled up with emotion simply telling us about the poem, though we didn't hear the poem, and the courage and the honesty with which she approached the, the topic was remarkable.
8. ININ-Q
  Yeah.
9. SSSimon Sinek
  And the closeness that I think we probably all feel towards each other now, 'cause we've all kinda learned something about each other that's deeply human, is kinda remarkable. It only took, what, 10, 10 minutes.
10. ININ-Q
  Yeah.
11. SSSimon Sinek
  And for me, the writing of it, um, [lips smack] uh, I realize when you talk about writing a poem, and you gave very specific instructions, which is don't try and make it good. Just write it true. So I find-- I found this exercise remarkable, and I really, I really hope people do it 'cause it's really good. And, and I really hope people do it with somebody else. Like, go listen to this episode with somebody, and then do it with them. Um, even though I think there is catharsis and there is magic in doing it alone, I think there's, there's magic in sharing it with somebody 'cause it's a deeply human experience. And the great thing about human experience is they are, they're wonderful to share.
12. ININ-Q
  Mm. You're dropping dimes before you even start the poem. [laughs] All right, ladies and gentlemen, you know him, you love him. I know that we're still on camera-
13. SSSimon Sinek
  Well, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see
14. ININ-Q
  ... so everybody's gonna have to-
15. SSSimon Sinek
  Who knows? Who knows?
16. ININ-Q
  ... hold on. Come on
17. SSSimon Sinek
  Anyway, again, and I- I'm following your rule, which is it doesn't have to be good or bad. It just has to be. Uh, I remember the feeling as if it was happening right now, the feeling that I had lost all control, that I had lost all hope. I felt powerless over my situation.
18. ININ-Q
  Mm.
19. SSSimon Sinek
  And my reaction, it's a reaction that to this day I am not proud of. I was angry. I became that asshole that I speak and write against.
20. ININ-Q
  Mm.
21. SSSimon Sinek
  I put my finger in his face and said, "You get me on that plane, and you get me out of here." That's what happens when you're in a difficult situation and you feel alone. Your instinct for self-preservation kicks in, and you take control of your own destiny because you can't trust or rely on anyone else to.
22. ININ-Q
  Mm.
23. SSSimon Sinek
  The rest of them, they were with others. They wore the uniforms of their service. They wore the ranks of their position. They were among their brothers and sisters, and I was in Afghanistan in a pair of khaki pants, a golf shirt, and hiking boots.
24. ININ-Q
  [laughs]
25. SSSimon Sinek
  I was the one person in the wh- on the whole base Without a sidearm, without a security blanket, I was the one person who was alone.
26. ININ-Q
  Mm.
27. SSSimon Sinek
  Long story short, we eventually found a flight that could take us out of the war zone back to home zone, and this flight had one passenger that was more alone than me. He lay in a flag-draped coffin in the center of an empty cargo plan- plane. And although the flight was quiet, I barely talked to the crew and they barely talked to me. I'd a- I had a chance to be with somebody who needed me. I spent the whole flight, nine and a half hours, with him. I slept next to him, or tried to sleep, and it turned out he was there for me in a way that was more powerful than I expected.
28. ININ-Q
  [exhales]
29. SSSimon Sinek
  That day, I learned what purpose really means. True purpose is the chance to serve those who serve others. I am grateful for everything I learned that day, and I cling to those feelings, for what I found filled me. Filled me more than anything else could.
30. ININ-Q
  Hmm. That's beautiful, man.
28:08 – 30:47
Creativity is connection
1. SSSimon Sinek
  was meant for the benefit of me.
2. ININ-Q
  Mm-hmm.
3. SSSimon Sinek
  I just happened to share it with you.
4. ININ-Q
  That's right.
5. SSSimon Sinek
  And I think this is one of the things that I've taken away from this exercise, which is it is an... It is a magical feeling to do something creative for the benefit of only one person, which is the person making it. And that you get to share it is why it's such a deeply human and connecting experience, and why we've created this magical space in the studio right now with, you know, the five people that are in this room, is because we shared a little piece of ourselves, not for the benefit of each other, but we just let you in. You know, the, the sharing of our poem was a gift to the people who got to hear it-
6. ININ-Q
  Mm
7. SSSimon Sinek
  ... because it wasn't written for them.
8. ININ-Q
  No, it was a gift that you gave yourself first.
9. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
10. ININ-Q
  And then you giving that same gift-
11. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
12. ININ-Q
  ... to us, I mean, it not only makes me feel closer to you-
13. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
14. ININ-Q
  ... but it makes me reflect on my own life, and that brings me closer to myself. So there's this, um, self-fulfilling virtuous loop that, that starts to happen.
15. SSSimon Sinek
  I, if I'm, if I'm t- if I'm completely honest-
16. ININ-Q
  Mm-hmm
17. SSSimon Sinek
  ... look, I've, I know you, and I've seen you perform, and I'm, I love your work.
18. ININ-Q
  Thanks, man.
19. SSSimon Sinek
  And, uh, and you always make me think, and I love the way you use language. I love beautiful language, you know? Um, uh, but if I'm honest, you know, I might have been nodding and smiling, but what was going through my head was, "I mean, it's a poem." You know?
20. ININ-Q
  Yeah.
21. SSSimon Sinek
  And I don't think anybody can truly appreciate how you're talking about it unless they do it. This is one of those things that you, quote-unquote, you, you know, you, you gotta try it.
22. ININ-Q
  Yeah.
23. SSSimon Sinek
  It's like, "Well, I don't like sushi." Well, you've never tried sushi. [laughs] You know? Try it first.
24. ININ-Q
  Yeah.
25. SSSimon Sinek
  No matter how somebody describes it to you, you really have to just try it.
26. ININ-Q
  Well, we made a journal for that very reason, so that people could do it without me having to be present, um, and go through different prompts that bring about different stories in their lives that they can create with, um, and have some sense of poetic release. And, uh, for many years, I've been doing these corporate things, but I, I never started out doing corporate things.
27. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
28. ININ-Q
  They were libraries and-
29. SSSimon Sinek
  Like, wherever you would go
30. ININ-Q
  ... upward bound programs, and I was doing them from teenagers.
30:47 – 38:18
Happiness is a range, not a point
1. ININ-Q
  out. My, uh, therapist, who's no longer with us, but he was kind of like a father figure for me, um, in my 20s, uh, said once, "Happiness is not a point, it's a range." And it really stayed with me. I actually made a poem around it, because you are responsible for figuring out what brings you out and into that range.
2. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
3. ININ-Q
  And only you will know.
4. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
5. ININ-Q
  And only you will know over and over and over again, so you better keep checking in.
6. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
7. ININ-Q
  Um-
8. SSSimon Sinek
  That's so good. That's such a great insight, that happiness is not a point, it's a range. It's not a, it's not a, it's not a spot on a target-
9. ININ-Q
  That's right
10. SSSimon Sinek
  ... it's a whole field.
11. ININ-Q
  Mm-hmm.
12. SSSimon Sinek
  You know? And if you, y- y- you can miss the target, but you can wander around a field. And, and I think we, we treat happiness like a, like a, like a bullseye.
13. ININ-Q
  Mm-hmm.
14. SSSimon Sinek
  And by the way, it's damn near impossible to hit a bullseye and to hit it every time and split the arrow that you just fired. And so we think we're unhappy because we're not in the bullseye, but the reality is, I'm degrees of happiness happy every day.
15. ININ-Q
  That's right. And w- w- what can you do when you recognize you're slightly out of the range that will just kinda bump you back up?
16. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah. And you don't need euphoria.
17. ININ-Q
  No. Euphoria is boring. Uh, all the time-
18. SSSimon Sinek
  And temporary.
19. ININ-Q
  Yeah, constant... But imagine constant euphoria. I mean-
20. SSSimon Sinek
  Well, I think you're probably high on drugs.
21. ININ-Q
  Well, I, I-
22. SSSimon Sinek
  That constant euphoria is probably a drug addiction [laughs] .
23. ININ-Q
  I have been many, many times [laughs] high on drugs, and there have been many, many times where I've actually wished I would come down. You're up too long, and you're like, "Wow, okay, this euphoria is hurting now."
24. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
25. ININ-Q
  When does this end?
26. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
27. ININ-Q
  I wanna come back. I wanna come back [laughs] .
28. SSSimon Sinek
  Why is there the belief that art has to be born of pain? You know, more art comes from pain than joy. More songs are about breakups [laughs] than-
29. ININ-Q
  Yeah
30. SSSimon Sinek
  ... finding love. You know? M- artists that we write about, whether they're composers or fine artists, they're, they, they're, we always talk about their torture.