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Simon SinekIdeas That Stick with Advertising Legend Lee Clow | A Bit of Optimism Podcast
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Chapter summaries
Meeting an advertising hero and setting the stage with Apple’s “1984”
Simon Sinek opens by sharing his personal admiration for Lee Clow and frames the conversation around Clow’s perspective from a distinctive era of advertising. They quickly land on Clow’s role at Chiat/Day and the cultural weight of Apple’s “1984” commercial.
- •Simon describes Lee as a major influence from his own advertising beginnings
- •Lee downplays himself as “old and over-the-hill,” but agrees to contribute
- •Simon highlights Clow’s Chiat/Day creative leadership and involvement in Apple’s “1984” ad
- •They position “1984” as a landmark moment for both Apple and Super Bowl advertising
How “1984” changed the Super Bowl—and why it wasn’t truly a one-time plan
Lee explains the intention behind “1984” and how it helped legitimize the Super Bowl as a stage for bold, cinematic advertising. He also corrects the myth that it was designed to run only once, detailing the internal conflict that led to its famous single airing.
- •Lee says “democratizing technology” was the impetus for launching Macintosh with “1984”
- •He argues the ad gave creatives and clients permission to treat the Super Bowl as a major creative theater
- •Lee notes they knew it was special, including working with Ridley Scott and introducing a never-before-seen product
- •He explains the “run once” story became legend, but it wasn’t the original intention
Boardroom resistance, a leftover media buy, and Steve Jobs’ decision to air it
Simon asks directly about the one-time airing, and Lee recounts the behind-the-scenes story. The board resisted the spend and the lack of product explanation, but Jobs pushed forward using remaining airtime.
- •Lee describes a positive early reception at a sales meeting in Hawaii in 1983
- •He says Apple’s board objected to spending millions on a spot that didn’t show or explain the product
- •Lee recounts selling off much of the ad time but keeping one spot
- •He describes Jobs deciding to run the ad anyway, cementing the legend and impact
What the first Macintosh brief really looked like—and the supporting campaign around it
Simon probes how the campaign began, and Lee clarifies that “1984” was part of a broader launch. They discuss how Apple also needed demonstrations and explanatory materials because the Macintosh was so new to consumers.
- •Lee says Chiat/Day had already been working on Apple II advertising for a couple of years
- •He recounts Jobs demanding a world-shaking commercial for Macintosh
- •Lee notes they also produced commercials demonstrating how Macintosh worked, alongside more charming spots
- •He describes 20-page magazine inserts used to introduce and explain Macintosh
Why Steve Jobs unlocked extraordinary creativity: vision, standards, and fearlessness
Simon asks why Jobs enabled such standout creativity compared to leaders today. Lee attributes it to Jobs’ rare ability to see further ahead, demand excellence, and push people beyond what they thought possible—while being fearless about creativity.
- •Lee calls Jobs the only true genius he ever worked with, able to see “two horizons further”
- •He describes Jobs as demanding and tough, causing some people to quit, while others rose to the challenge
- •He cites how Jobs’ pressure helped people accomplish more than they believed possible
- •Lee argues Jobs trusted intuition and creativity, unlike many CEOs who prefer methodical approaches
Pushing people isn’t enough: recognizing “great” when you see it
Simon warns that some leaders imitate Jobs’ intensity without the competence behind it. Lee explains the difference: Jobs not only demanded greatness, he could recognize when the work reached the “high ground,” and he iterated toward it with teams.
- •Simon distinguishes harshness from effective leadership and asks what else mattered
- •Lee says some CEOs demand greatness but don’t recognize it when it appears
- •He argues Jobs’ long-range vision helped him judge when work truly matched the ambition
- •Lee describes a process of putting brave work on the table and getting clear accept/reject signals from Jobs
Where manifesto advertising went: media fragmentation, algorithms, and ignorable interruptions
Simon contrasts past “anthem” ads with today’s product-driven marketing and asks what changed. Lee points to the transformed media environment and the rise of internet-driven targeting, which often favors discounts and product pitches over bold storytelling.
- •Simon describes anthem ads as visual manifestos about beliefs and values rather than direct selling
- •Lee says the mediascape shifted toward phones and the internet, reducing a shared platform for big statements
- •He references “Think Different” as a favorite example of the manifesto era
- •Lee contrasts bold TV storytelling with algorithmic ads that pop up and recommend products or trips
Capturing attention in the interruption economy: make it shareable and unignorable
Simon pushes back that ads are now unavoidable, so why not force-feed a manifesto. Lee argues the opportunity still exists, but it requires the courage and craft to create something so captivating that people want to watch and share it—even though it interrupts them.
- •Simon notes many ads are now forced-viewing with timers, highlighting how disliked they can be
- •Lee predicts new creative media artists will find ways to make bold work in the new landscape
- •He observes that many unavoidable ads are still “ignorable,” despite being unskippable
- •Lee emphasizes that if content is smart and interesting enough, people will pay attention and share it
The Energizer Bunny origin story—and winning with a competitor’s “special” asset
Simon asks how the Energizer Bunny was created, and Lee tells a story that reframes authorship. He credits Doyle Dane Bernbach with inventing the bunny, then explains how his team expanded the character into a broader world that kept interrupting other commercials.
- •Simon recalls the long-running bunny concept and the “still going” interruption gag
- •Lee describes pitching for Energizer against Doyle Dane Bernbach
- •He says DDB created the original mechanical-rabbits spot and invented the bunny
- •Lee explains his team launched the bunny beyond the studio into other spoof ads, creating a lasting device
What makes ideas stick: personality, cultural relevance, and the “wear the T-shirt” test
Simon asks what makes advertising ideas become part of culture. Lee argues that strong brands develop a distinct personality and voice people want to identify with, using his surfing background and a simple yardstick: whether people would proudly wear the brand’s T-shirt.
- •Lee says many brands are just categories, so creating personality is crucial to being noticed
- •He describes shifting a brand’s expression to refresh it or help it find its voice
- •Lee uses his surfing experience to explain wanting to belong to a brand, not just own its product
- •He proposes a core test: make the brand so likable and trustworthy people want to wear the logo with pride
A missed relationship and a painful headline: losing Nike, then later finding Adidas
Simon asks which brands Lee wished he’d worked with, and Lee recounts his complicated history with Nike. He explains the agency lost the account due to an uncontrollable media narrative, and later describes returning to a sports brand through Adidas.
- •Lee says working on a sports brand was especially fun and meaningful for him
- •He recounts doing Nike work around the 1984 Olympics and launching Air Jordan before losing the account
- •Pressed by Simon, Lee explains a New York Times Magazine headline implied Chiat/Day “saved Nike,” leading to being fired
- •He shares that later, former Nike contacts at Adidas led to an Adidas pitch and work like “Impossible Is Nothing”
“Think Different” as a save-the-company moment: restoring Apple’s soul in 1997
Simon asks for a beloved project, and Lee centers on Apple’s crisis period when Jobs returned. Lee explains the urgency—Apple’s survival, developer confidence, and brand identity—and why “Think Different” mattered as a soul-reclaiming statement rather than a product push.
- •Lee describes Jobs returning in 1997 with Apple in major trouble and lacking new products
- •He says they needed something to put Apple back on the map and reconnect with people who still cared
- •Lee frames “Think Different” as a celebration of imaginative, creative people aligned with Apple’s purpose
- •He connects Apple’s “intersection of liberal arts and creativity” to the campaign’s message about the “crazy ones”
Writing “Here’s to the crazy ones”: iteration, collaboration, and weekly CEO involvement
Simon reads the famous “crazy ones” copy and notes how often it’s attributed to Jobs rather than advertising. Lee details the drafting process, including many versions and Jobs’ close collaboration, then broadens to how unusual it was for a CEO to meet weekly on advertising.
- •Simon reads the full “crazy ones” passage and emphasizes its cultural afterlife
- •Lee explains the core line came first, and the team built and rewrote the full script repeatedly
- •He references exploring alternatives (including Robert Frost and a Seal-related idea) before landing on the final words
- •Lee says Jobs met weekly with the advertising team until he passed away, showing rare CEO-level commitment
Why ad agencies lost CEO access—and the idea that “everything a brand does is an ad”
Simon asks how advertising lost influence as agencies stopped advising CEOs directly. Lee argues leadership became dominated by managers who treat advertising as a department, then expands the idea of branding beyond ads—pointing to Ralph Lauren and Apple Stores as examples of brand expression.
- •Simon describes the shift from CEO-to-creative relationships to layers of CMOs and brand managers
- •Lee says direct CEO trust in advertising is rare, naming only a few exceptional relationships
- •He points to Ralph Lauren as someone who guided a brand through personal aesthetics and vision
- •Lee states “everything a brand does is an ad,” including Apple’s decision to build its own retail stores
A kindergarten painting, lifelong support, and closing reflections on being pushed to grow
Simon asks for a happy childhood memory, and Lee shares an early moment when a teacher recognized his artistic ability and his mother championed it. Simon connects that support to the themes of the episode—mentorship, challenge, and helping others realize hidden potential—before they wrap.
- •Lee recalls a kindergarten/early-grade painting that prompted a teacher to affirm his artistic ability
- •He credits his mother’s lifelong support and contrasts it with his father’s skepticism about making a living
- •Simon ties the story to the broader theme of pushing people to reach beyond their perceived limits
- •They close with gratitude, Lee reflecting on having a “blessed life,” followed by the podcast sign-off
