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The First Steps to Find Love with Matthew Hussey | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

Finding love is a journey. We might take some wrong turns along the way. Matthew Hussey helps people find love, and sometimes, redefine their relationship with love.

Matthew HusseyguestSimon SinekhostGreat Minds

Nov 26, 202456mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Why Simon Admires Matthew's Humble Approach
Simon praises Matthew's humility and honesty, saying he doesn't claim to be an expert but has made himself the guinea pig. Matthew says he is willing to sacrifice money to speak about what he cares about.
- •Simon says Matthew's humility and honesty set his work apart from other relationship influencers
- •Simon notes Matthew doesn't claim to be an expert and treats himself as the guinea pig
- •Matthew says he would sacrifice money to speak about things he cares about
- •Matthew says helping people brings him more joy than anything else
"How Do I Kill the Desire to Find Love?" Facing Chronic Loneliness
Matthew recounts a woman in her 60s who asked how to kill her desire for love because it had become so painful. He explains how he helped her see her relationship with the pain, drawing on his own experience of chronic pain and the danger of overwhelm.
- •The woman felt invisible and haunted each night by the space next to her
- •Matthew says her stories about her life turned pain into overwhelm
- •He calls overwhelm the most dangerous emotion because it is the crescendo of fear, anxiety and anger
- •He tries to lower the temperature below overwhelm so people regain their power
- •Our life is many stories, and new ones can begin from where we stand now
How a Man Became a Dating Coach for Women
Simon asks why Matthew, a man, gives dating advice to women. Matthew explains that women asked him to help them as he had been helping men, and that reading "The Rules" convinced him people were being given advice that would make them miss out.
- •Matthew grew up around women and had good relationships with them
- •Women who saw him coaching men asked why he wasn't doing the same for them
- •He read "The Rules" and disagreed with its advice not to approach a man who hasn't approached you
- •He worried that following such ideas meant meeting only the loudest guy in the room
Matthew's Own Love Life and How He Met His Wife
Simon notes that Matthew's advice carries credibility because he is happily married. Matthew describes his early dating years and the story of meeting his wife Audrey at a friend's engagement party, where she was the one to start the conversation.
- •Matthew's early love life taught him the value of doing something instead of nothing, even at the risk of rejection
- •He nearly skipped the engagement party in London but said yes
- •Audrey began their conversation by asking about the boxing match on TV
- •Simon points out the irony that his wife was the one who approached him
Talking to Strangers Is an Eroding Skillset
Simon and Matthew discuss how technology has reduced the courage and practice needed to talk to strangers. Matthew sees this as both a shame and an opportunity for anyone who can make an impact in person.
- •Talking to strangers is a skillset that has eroded
- •Matthew says social anxiety increased after COVID and he still feels it if he hasn't socialized in a while
- •A man in his 20s told Matthew that talking to someone at a bar was unthinkable
- •People who can make an impact in person are way ahead of the curve
Why We Gravitate to the Wrong People: Chemistry, Instincts and Standards
Matthew says we often fail to gravitate to people who bring us peace, and are drawn instead to ego-satisfying people and intense chemistry. He argues that instincts like over-investing mislead us and that high standards should be aimed at kindness, trust and consistency.
- •We gravitate to people who satisfy our ego and with whom we have massive initial chemistry
- •Simon says butterflies are dopamine and say nothing about a relationship's viability
- •Matthew says familiarity may mean someone who makes us feel unsafe, and a boxing coach told him instincts can get you killed
- •Character can only be measured over time, while a date measures only impact
- •Matthew says to turn high standards toward kindness, empathy, teamwork, trust and consistency
Simon's Instinct to Fight for Love and the Search for the Right Partner
Simon admits he gets excited and invests heavily, and has fought for people who were cold to him, though he is improving with age. He says the hardest part is not knowing who is right when different people bring different energies.
- •Younger Simon's over-investing came from insecurity, older Simon's from genuine excitement
- •Simon wants to be with people who want to be with him
- •Different partners bring excitement, calm, adventure or intellectual challenge
- •Simon wants a partner who balances him rather than matches his energy
Bruce Springsteen's Lesson: Surprise and Feeling at Home
Matthew uses Springsteen's idea that an audience wants to be surprised and to feel at home as a lens for relationships. He describes feeling fully accepted with his partner and suggests asking whether a person will diminish or enlarge you.
- •Springsteen said audiences want to be surprised and made to feel at home
- •Matthew has never felt more seen or accepted than in his current relationship
- •He applies the James Hollis question, whether this person will diminish or enlarge me, to relationships
- •Matthew has been with his wife about four years
Friends, Family and the Four Levels of Importance in a Relationship
Simon asks how much to listen to friends and family, noting that his parents liked partners with big personalities. Matthew describes the four levels from his book: admiration, mutual attraction, commitment and compatibility, and notes how past rejections can raise the stakes.
- •Simon's parents liked partners with big personalities, and Matthew's mom can be charmed similarly
- •Matthew says a great team is different from observing someone great in isolation
- •The four levels are admiration, mutual attraction, commitment and compatibility
- •Compatibility, whether two people work together, is the often-overlooked level
- •As we age we may feel pressure to justify our past nos, raising the stakes of the next choice
The Paradoxes of Love Advice and Invest in Who Invests in You
Simon says the advice seems full of paradoxes and asks how one begins. Matthew explains the nuance behind his phrase to invest in who invests in you, and Simon tells a story about a couple counting a 20-second hug, arguing that over-intellectualizing emotional connection backfires.
- •Simon struggles with apparent paradoxes: don't trust instinct, don't chase, but feel safe and at home
- •Matthew says if both people wait to be invested in, there's a standoff over who goes first
- •Simon says a couple counting a 20-second hug had intellectualized an emotional connection
- •Matthew agrees that explaining things can pulverize them, like therapy around sex
- •Simon says advice-giving incentives are skewed by clicks, views and saves
Endless Options, FOMO and Gratitude
Matthew says endless options from apps create an inflated composite of the ideal person, and compares settling down to people stopping on a journey west. He and Simon argue that we miss out on almost everything anyway, so gratitude, like Simon's reverse bucket list, matters.
- •Simon compares dating apps to shopping on Amazon
- •Matthew says a home becomes a home when we put down roots
- •Whomever you choose, you miss out on everyone else, so decide where your peace lies
- •Simon's reverse bucket list records what he has done rather than what is missing
- •Matthew sees a relationship as the castle two people build on a plot of land
Do You Need Confidence First? Insecurity and Vulnerability in Relationships
Simon asks whether we must find self-love before love or whether a partner can help. Matthew answers both, rejects the idea that you must be fully happy first, and says sharing insecurities is freeing only with a safe partner, recalling a partner who called his insecurity unattractive.
- •Matthew says you can't give a partner total responsibility for loving you, but dislikes the idea that you must do all the work first
- •He notes many happy couples were not enlightened when they met
- •Simon says relationships work when partners are open about insecurities
- •Matthew says an earlier partner telling him his insecurity was unattractive destroyed him, but that she was the wrong person
- •How a partner responds can act as a filter for the right or wrong person
Self-Love Without the Romantic Model: "This Is Your Human"
Matthew explains that self-love fails when we apply a romantic model and offers a simpler one. We are the only person given the job of caring for our own human, like a parent who loves a child simply because the child is theirs.
- •There's no reason to treat yourself worse than anyone else if you care about people
- •Familiarity breeds contempt, so hating ourselves is easy for someone we've roomed with all our lives
- •We are the only ones assigned to take care of this human
- •Like a parent's love, 'this one's mine' doesn't depend on achievements
- •Asking what you would do today if it were your job to make your human happy changes choices such as not texting someone back
Simon's Closing Story: "What Are You Thinking?"
Simon tells a story about answering literally when a partner asks what he is thinking, since saying 'nothing' can make people insecure. Matthew relates and compares it to a scene from The Office, and Simon concludes that unknown is worse than bad news before they wrap up.
- •Saying 'nothing' when asked what you're thinking can make a partner insecure
- •Simon was advised to answer literally and once said he wondered whether the remote would work backwards
- •Matthew has started doing the same thing
- •Simon says unknown is worse than bad news because bad news can be talked through

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