Simon SinekThe Quiet Power of the Empathetic Leader with Navy SEAL turned rowing coach Gordon Schmidt
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 5:44
A SEAL’s second act: rediscovering rowing and becoming a high school coach
Simon and Gordon open with Gordon’s transition from a 20-year Navy SEAL career to coaching high school rowers in San Diego. Gordon explains how he returned to rowing through a masters program, fell back in love with the sport, and unexpectedly got hired as head coach despite having no formal coaching experience.
- •Gordon served 20 years and six months; has been retired about a year and a half
- •He rowed at the Naval Academy but stopped rowing during most of his SEAL career
- •A former teammate convinced him to try masters rowing; a seat race reignited his passion
- •He applied to coach juniors and was hired largely for rowing competence and maturity with “male ego”
- •Early reflections on identity shift and finding a new lane after retirement
- 5:44 – 6:57
Learning patience and presence as “Coach Gordon”
Gordon describes how coaching teenagers has revealed strengths he didn’t fully recognize—especially patience and self-awareness in the moment. He also touches on generational differences and the balance between being approachable and maintaining the authority of a coach.
- •Coaching requires patience; Gordon realizes he’s more patient than he thought
- •New awareness: noticing himself being patient in real time
- •Navigating modern expectations (not military-style deference) while holding standards
- •Prefers being called “Coach Gordon,” but adapts to what the athletes can offer
- •Coaching becomes a daily practice of restraint, clarity, and relationship-building
- 6:57 – 9:07
Why SEAL teams and crew teams feel so similar
They explore the structural and cultural parallels between a SEAL platoon and a crew boat: coordination, shared suffering, and total interdependence. Gordon distinguishes “rowing” as an activity from “crew” as a team identity, connecting it directly to how people survive BUD/S and succeed in operations.
- •BUD/S begins with “boat crews”—team survival through pain and coordination
- •Crew requires teamwork; success is impossible without synchronization
- •Competition exists, but the unit’s cohesion determines outcomes
- •Shared rhythm and responsibility mirror small-team dynamics in special operations
- •Team identity (“crew”) matters more than individual performance
- 9:07 – 13:30
The pain of leaving the Teams: loss, brotherhood, and the gate closing behind you
Gordon describes the emotional crash after leaving active duty, emphasizing that the loss is less about job title and more about brotherhood and finality. He recounts the moment of walking out the gate and feeling a visceral sense that something fundamental had ended.
- •Gordon avoided saying “I am a SEAL,” but still felt the Teams were deeply part of him
- •Post-retirement “wallowing” tied to loss of community and meaning
- •The “gate shutting behind you” as the loudest sound—symbol of separation and finality
- •Grief includes friends lost in war and the broader collective loss of the community
- •Belonging and purpose are central drivers, not just adrenaline or status
- 13:30 – 17:07
Choosing to stop numbing: acceptance, purpose, and finding renewal through coaching
Simon presses for what helped Gordon move through sadness into calm. Gordon frames it as a decision to stop numbing and to accept loss, with rowing/coaching arriving at exactly the right time to give daily structure and purpose without pretending to replace what was lost.
- •Core shift: deciding to accept sadness instead of numbing it
- •Not framed as combat trauma—more as cumulative loss and transition
- •Rowing/coaching provided purpose, routine, and a way to contribute again
- •New fulfillment doesn’t replace the old identity; it creates a new meaningful chapter
- •Timing mattered: coaching arrived when Gordon was ready to show up for others
- 17:07 – 25:04
A rowing selection story: how a demotion revealed culture and character
Gordon tells a detailed story about selecting the varsity boat for major competition and swapping out a senior for a sophomore. The benched athlete goes through anger and sadness but ultimately responds with relentless effort—demonstrating a key lesson: your job is to make whatever boat you’re in the fastest possible.
- •Varsity selection pressure and the complexity of seat order and combinations
- •A senior is pulled from the top boat; emotional reaction unfolds in stages
- •Gordon emphasizes nothing is permanent—everyone can earn a seat race
- •The athlete responds by attacking every practice with full effort
- •Lesson transfers to work life: stop moping and excel where you are placed
- 25:04 – 33:08
Competition vs. culture: grit as the ‘price of admission’
The conversation expands from rowing into a broader philosophy of grit: wanting to be the best is healthy, but the real goal is building the best team. Simon and Gordon connect this to why Simon writes books despite hating the process—because meaning makes the suffering worth it.
- •Healthy competitiveness is necessary; complacency is concerning
- •Mature performers know their lane while still pushing growth
- •Strong teams win more reliably than strong individuals
- •Simon’s book-writing: suffering is tolerable when tied to a mission/idea that must be shared
- •Grit reframed: the ‘price of admission’ for belonging or impact
- 33:08 – 34:58
Ad break: “Ad with Authenticity” featuring True Classic’s CEO
A short branded interlude where Simon discusses entrepreneurship, creativity, and experimentation with True Classic’s CEO. The segment highlights speed, creative risk-taking, and the leadership posture of letting ideas be tested by the market rather than killed by hierarchy.
- •Stability can kill entrepreneurship; chaos can force creativity
- •Creativity as differentiation in a “boring, archaic industry”
- •Embedding values and culture into marketing and content
- •Leaders who say “Try it” instead of “I don’t like it” unlock iteration
- •Market feedback—not executive preference—proves merit
- 34:58 – 39:51
Why people quit BUD/S: status fantasies vs. honest motivation
Gordon explains that modern candidates face many hurdles to even arrive at BUD/S, so quitting often reflects self-deception about what they truly want. Many are attracted by perceived status, but not by the real day-to-day reality; Gordon argues that lasting motivation comes from wanting the brotherhood enough to pay both the entry price and the ongoing cost.
- •Quitting often stems from not being honest about why you’re there
- •Status-driven motivation collapses under sustained hardship
- •Reality check: being a SEAL includes mundane bureaucracy, not just action
- •Gordon’s true motivation: serving with that specific group of people
- •Attrition rates haven’t dramatically changed; winter cold matters most
- 39:51 – 46:03
When leaders quit, teams quit: the contagion effect and what it reveals
Simon asks why an officer quitting is often followed by multiple enlisted quits in quick succession. Gordon explains the psychological effect: people draw strength from visible leaders; if a strong, liked leader quits, others infer they can’t make it either—while an unpopular leader’s exit can briefly boost morale.
- •In BUD/S, visible leaders influence others regardless of rank
- •If a respected leader quits, others may spiral: “If he can’t, I can’t”
- •If no one quits after an officer quits, it can signal the officer was the problem
- •Leadership is observed constantly; it’s about tone, respect, and authenticity
- •Key insight: rank doesn’t equal leadership—followership signals who the leaders are
- 46:03 – 53:24
Beyond style: authenticity, respect, and calm under pressure
They debate whether leadership is about personality fit or transferable behaviors. Gordon argues true leadership isn’t style-dependent; it’s rooted in respect and authenticity, and it shows most clearly in high-stakes moments when a leader can choose calm, human connection over robotic command.
- •Some leaders are ‘assholes’ but predictable; unpredictability erodes trust
- •Context matters: command-and-control is appropriate in emergencies, toxic as a default
- •Technique: being calmer than expected in crisis can stabilize the team
- •“Calm breeds calm” and empathy can outperform volume and bravado
- •Leadership credibility comes from trust built before the crisis
- 53:24 – 1:09:48
A mission that taught empathy: leading after a catastrophic IED incident
Gordon shares a deployment episode in Afghanistan where an IED blinded their senior EOD tech and killed two Afghan commandos. The team had to continue operating while emotionally destabilized; Gordon describes how empathy—understanding what each person needed—became the practical tool that kept them functional and mission-capable.
- •Mission structure and constraints: small platoon, partnering with Afghan forces, massive area to clear
- •A major casualty early in the operation shattered confidence and emotional stability
- •Gordon knew the tactics, but had to learn the emotional leadership in real time
- •Empathy meant acknowledging the moment, sharing information, and restoring intent
- •Years later teammates affirmed: going back out that day was what they needed
