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Managing Energy When You're Exhausted
Simon opens by admitting he is exhausted after a bad night's sleep and asks how the others manage energy when they have none. Brené talks about listening to her body and giving herself grace, while Adam says taking action can create energy, which sends Simon off to do jumping jacks.
- •Brené tries to listen to her body and extend grace to herself and to others
- •Adam realized that taking action creates energy, not only the reverse
- •Simon did jumping jacks on air to test the idea
- •Simon will name his state at the start of a meeting and ask for grace and help
Two-Word Check-Ins and Reading the Room
Brené describes starting meetings with a two-word check-in, which she calls a grace generator, even with lawyers. Adam shares a story of a leader who misread a colleague's face, and Simon argues that self-awareness comes from situational awareness.
- •Two-word check-ins make it impossible to hide behind "fine"
- •A leader only needs to hold space, not fix everything in the meeting
- •A follow-up question: "What does support from me look like today?"
- •Adam's story of an emotional intelligence expert who told someone they looked mad and derailed the meeting
- •Simon suggests self-awareness depends on situational awareness
Reflected Best Self and Situational Awareness
Adam introduces the reflected best self exercise, in which you collect stories from 15 to 20 people about you at your best. He says it reveals positive blind spots and that strengths only help when paired with situational awareness.
- •The exercise was created by Laura Morgan Roberts, Jane Dutton and colleagues
- •People have positive blind spots as well as negative ones
- •Charismatic leaders without situational awareness can dominate conversations
- •Self-awareness without situational awareness may be useless or even counterproductive
Dunning-Kruger, Humility, and Metacognition
Brené raises Dunning-Kruger and says the coaches and trainers she interviewed name humility as the top predictor of mental toughness. She proposes that metacognition, thinking about your own thinking, is the better antidote to over- or underestimating yourself. Simon ties toughness to humility and being a social animal.
- •Adam relays David Dunning's nuance: the unskilled are unaware, while experts can be over- or underconfident
- •Brené's interviewees name humility as the predictor of mental toughness
- •Brené proposes that self-, anticipatory and situational awareness all sit under metacognition
- •Simon says tough people fear letting down comrades more than dying, and ask for help
- •Brené cites Cacioppo: success is being someone others can depend on
What Adam Learned from the Strengths Exercise
Adam describes how he flipped the exercise at 21 by writing stories of appreciation to others. When he did it properly, people pointed to his memory, which led him to memorize his MBA students' names. Brené and Simon say the deeper strengths are thoughtfulness, ethics and rigor, and Adam squirms.
- •Adam wrote others stories about when they were at their best and found people are bad at expressing appreciation
- •He did the standard version later, and people highlighted his memory
- •He used that strength to learn his first MBA students' names
- •Brené and Simon say the underlying character is thoughtfulness, ethics and attributing credit
- •Simon notes Nixon also had a great memory, so a skill alone doesn't show who someone is
360 Reviews and Self-Criticism by Leaders
Simon explains how his team runs 360s: each person writes three weaknesses and three strengths, and the room can add to both lists. Adam cites research showing that leaders who criticize themselves openly increase psychological safety. Simon adds that declaring a flaw with no accountability, such as "I'm an asshole," misses the point of growth.
- •Simon's 360 format has the person read their own weaknesses first, then strengths, with others adding
- •Adam and a colleague found that leaders' self-criticism boosts team psychological safety
- •Naming a flaw as an excuse, like "brutal honesty," is a tap-out
- •Honesty doesn't need to be brutal
Comparing Your Best and Worst Moments
Brené describes a feedback method that compares similar situations a leader handled well and badly. The only variable she found in herself was fear: when she gets scared, she gets scary. Simon and Adam find parallels in curiosity versus cross-examination and arguing to learn versus arguing to win.
- •Compare similar situations with different outcomes to find the inflection point
- •Brené's variable: when she's afraid she becomes scary
- •Simon's questions can show curiosity or corner people
- •Brené's summary is curiosity versus declaration, and Adam's is arguing to win versus arguing to learn
When You Feel Like You're Being Lied To
Simon says he asks probing questions when he feels lied to or is made to feel dumb, and Brené asks what emotion he feels. After confusion, alone and betrayed are floated, he concludes it is a betrayal of his worldview. Adam connects this to personal constructs and to anger revealing values that feel threatened.
- •Simon's questions can turn into a treasure hunt when the logic doesn't add up
- •Brené notes that people in finance often use shame as a proxy for power
- •Simon settles on betrayal of worldview rather than betrayal of trust
- •Adam describes an exercise where analyzing anger reveals threatened values
Operationalizing Two Core Values
Brené explains her exercise of choosing just two core values, turning them into observable behaviors and finding warning signs of misalignment. People discover their behavior, not their values, is what's out of line. Simon applies the "two things" idea to relationships and to CEOs who rationalize selling to bad buyers.
- •Transformational leaders she studied had one or two core values, not twenty
- •Values must be operationalized into behaviors, or they are just words on a wall
- •Participants realize their behaviors are misaligned with their values
- •Teams write sticky notes about when they saw each person live their values
- •Simon argues for two non-negotiables, since people can rationalize anything
Character, Consistency, and Compliance vs. Commitment
Adam asks whether a partner must embody your values with everyone or only with you. Brené says values aren't situational, though behaviors are, while Simon adjusts for age and looks for character clues. Brené then separates compliance from commitment, in parenting and in teams.
- •Mistreating the waiter or staff is a red flag about character
- •Brené says values aren't situational but the expression of behaviors is
- •Simon holds older people to a higher standard and treats single lapses as clues, not verdicts
- •Compliance works early in parenting but must become commitment
- •Compliance-driven teams are described as dead on arrival
Holocaust Rescuers, Explanations, and Shame
Adam describes the Oliner study of Holocaust rescuers, whose parents tended to explain wrongdoing rather than punish it. The group discusses how explanation builds empathy and guilt while punishment breeds self-focused shame. Simon extends this to incentives, using Boeing as an example, and Adam says it shifts people from protecting reputation to improving character.
- •Rescuers were more often given explanations than consequences or punishment as children
- •Explanation leads to internalized values, which links to compliance versus commitment
- •Brené and Adam say shame corrodes empathy and guilt prompts repair
- •Simon says incentives at Boeing rewarded speed and punished slowing down
- •Punishment-driven behavior protects reputation rather than improving character
Narcissism: Shame, Grandiose and Vulnerable
Brené defines narcissism as the shame-based fear of being ordinary. Adam wonders whether grandiose and vulnerable narcissism are different strategies for handling shame. Brené argues that self-focus hurts others either way, and Simon points to differing impacts on the audience.
- •Brené calls narcissism the shame-based fear of being ordinary
- •Adam sees grandiose narcissists building themselves up while vulnerable ones retreat
- •Simon notes the same behavior can have opposite motivations
- •Brené says quiet, vulnerable self-focus can be brutal on direct reports
- •Simon notes people respond differently to each type
Parties, Introversion, and Security
A lighthearted tangent starts when Adam says Simon leaves parties early out of security rather than a fear of missing out. They compare introversion, party avoidance and college anecdotes.
- •Adam says Simon isn't staying out of FOMO
- •Simon's philosophy: you'll miss some things and find others, and it evens out
- •Adam is an introvert who likes people but gets overstimulated
- •Brené contractually avoids dinners and meet and greets
Humble Narcissism, Humility, and Metacognition Full Circle
Adam cites research on presidential personality and Brad Owens's work on humble narcissism, and says leaders need more humility rather than less grandiosity. Simon defines humility as openness to others' ideas and prefers characteristics over strengths and weaknesses. The three debate whether humility requires metacognition, with Brené and Adam saying it does.
- •Adam says the presidential study found vulnerable narcissists didn't succeed and grandiose narcissism was a double-edged sword
- •Adam wants to raise leaders' humility rather than just dial down grandiosity
- •Simon's definition: humility is being open to the ideas of others
- •Simon prefers characteristics and attributes to strengths and weaknesses
- •Brené says humility is a function of metacognition, and Adam frames it as judgment about your own judgment
