Tim FerrissBreathing Protocols to Reboot Your Health, Fix Your Sleep, and Boost Performance — James Nestor
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:56
Coherent breathing and the 5–6 second prayer pattern
James Nestor describes research examining different prayer traditions and the breathing cadence embedded in them. He explains how slow, roughly 5–6 second inhales and exhales were associated with measurable shifts into a state researchers called “coherence.”
- •Research observed multiple prayers naturally pacing exhales and inhales at about five to six seconds each
- •Subjects showed changes including increased heart rate variability, decreased blood pressure, and increased oxygen in the brain
- •The pattern was labeled “coherent breathing” because multiple body systems appeared to synchronize
- •James says you don’t need prayer to use the pattern—just the timed inhale/exhale cycle
- 0:56 – 2:09
Why Tim waited to interview James about Breath
Tim Ferriss explains that James’s book reached him through many different people—friends, athletes, and doctors—so he chose to let its impact “slow bake” before interviewing James. The goal is to discuss what stuck and what James uses personally after the book’s release.
- •Tim mentions Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art was recommended from many directions
- •He intentionally delayed the interview to revisit the topic after broader uptake
- •Tim frames the conversation around what endures from the book and James’s current practices
- 2:09 – 5:02
Maurice Daubard: the mysterious cold-endurance predecessor to Wim Hof
James recounts discovering Maurice Daubard while researching hyperventilation-based breathwork. He describes Daubard as a long-practicing figure known for cold exposure feats and explains Daubard’s origins in breathing practices.
- •James learned of Daubard through a random encounter while researching hyperventilation breathwork
- •Daubard was portrayed as doing snow and frozen-lake exposure in the French Alps for decades
- •Daubard’s childhood lung illness led him to try yoga breathing instead of lung surgery
- •James notes Daubard rehabilitated himself and continued the practices frequently until late in life
- 5:02 – 7:51
Tummo breathing: heat generation, tradition, and modern reinterpretations
The conversation turns to Tummo, described as an ancient Bon Buddhist practice associated with generating and storing body heat. James distinguishes between slower traditional approaches and the more intense hyperventilation-and-hold style commonly associated with Wim Hof, noting ambiguity about what counts as “official” Tummo.
- •Tummo is described as enabling heat generation and retention, historically tied to survival in cold environments
- •James contrasts two versions: very slow breathing vs. intense hyperventilation followed by breath holds
- •He notes debate about definitions: what is “official” Tummo vs. simplified/modern versions
- •James says the slower version is difficult to find instructions for and is more closely guarded
- 7:51 – 9:30
Wim Hof-style cycles, “commercial Tummo,” and safety cautions
James outlines the basic structure of the Wim Hof method and how a “Tummo-like” commercial variant adds pressure-building and movements. Tim inserts explicit caution around cold exposure and practicing breathwork in water.
- •James describes Wim Hof method as repeated rounds of ~30 deep fast breaths, a neutral breath hold, then an inhale hold
- •He describes a variant that adds breath holds with pressure-building and arm movements to create “compression”
- •James says the technique can rapidly raise body temperature and reliably induces sweating even in cold
- •Tim warns listeners to be cautious with cold exposure and to never practice these techniques in water
- 9:30 – 11:43
How breathwork changed James’s chronic respiratory issues
James shares that despite dialing in food, exercise, and sleep, he experienced recurring pneumonia and bronchitis and could hear his breathing at night. After a doctor friend urged him to do breathwork, he tried it and reports he hasn’t had the same respiratory issues since.
- •James describes years of chronic respiratory illness despite otherwise healthy habits
- •He recalls repeated antibiotic use and worsening symptoms, including audible nighttime breathing
- •A doctor friend suggested breathwork, which he initially wasn’t interested in
- •James says after starting breathwork he stopped having those recurring respiratory problems
- 11:43 – 13:48
Sudarshan Kriya: the workshop that ‘blew my socks off’
James names Sudarshan Kriya (through Art of Living) as the first breathwork practice that strongly affected him and that he still uses. He describes discomfort with some workshop exercises but a striking physiological reaction to the breathing practice itself.
- •James identifies Sudarshan Kriya as the first breathwork method that delivered major benefits for him
- •He references a weekend workshop format and says some non-breath practices made him uncomfortable
- •He describes sweating heavily simply from breathing in a cool, dark room
- •The intensity of his body’s response increased his curiosity about breathing practices broadly
- 13:48 – 16:19
Extreme breath holds: hyperbaric chamber experiment and what breath training enables
Tim recounts his own history with breath holds, including a specific hyperbaric chamber experiment during a prolonged water-only fast and Wim Hof breathing. The discussion highlights how technique familiarity can expand what people can do, with Tim cautioning against replication without medical supervision.
- •Tim references experimenting with Wim Hof techniques and exposure to breath-hold feats (including David Blaine’s)
- •He shares a personal breath-hold story in a hyperbaric chamber and stopping around nine minutes
- •Tim emphasizes he had multiple ‘assists’ and tells listeners not to replicate without medical supervision
- •The segment frames breathwork as a skill that can change perceived respiratory limits
- 16:19 – 20:17
After Breath: public backlash, medical frustration, and the ADHD–sleep-breathing overlap
James describes the post-publication period: intense podcasting during lockdown, then speaking engagements where people expressed anger that they learned breathing fundamentals from a journalist rather than clinicians. He says he became especially struck by how common sleep-disordered breathing is in kids and describes a strong overlap with ADHD diagnoses, which he argues is often sleep deprivation tied to breathing dysfunction.
- •James says audiences repeatedly expressed frustration with medical systems and unanswered breathing-related issues
- •He highlights large numbers of kids with sleep-disordered breathing (snoring, apnea, nighttime dysfunction)
- •James describes the ADHD and sleep-disordered breathing populations as ‘almost completely’ overlapping
- •He argues kids often aren’t assessed for breathing or sleep before being given medications
- 20:17 – 23:49
At-home breathing and sleep screening: what to look for and simple recording tools
James lays out practical, at-home ways to get an initial signal of breathing problems, especially for kids. He describes observing daytime mouth breathing, listening for audible breathing at night, and using phone apps to record nighttime audio and generate a score/graph.
- •James says common medical pathways can lead to sleep labs, sleeping pills, and low CPAP adherence
- •He suggests watching for daytime mouth breathing as a basic screening clue
- •He recommends listening to a sleeping child’s breathing; audible or mouth breathing suggests struggle
- •He mentions phone apps SnoreLab and SnoreClock for overnight audio recording and scoring
- 23:49 – 28:34
Nasal breathing first: mouth tape, Myotape, and James’s long-term nightly taping
James emphasizes becoming an obligate nasal breather as the foundational step before expecting improvement. He discusses using small pieces of tape (including common micropore tape), introduces Myotape as a gentler option that goes around the mouth, and shares that he personally has taped his mouth nearly every night for seven years after an initial difficult adjustment period.
- •James calls nasal breathing the ‘number one’ step and suggests building the habit in daytime first
- •He says only a small piece of tape is needed and notes many tapes can work, including drugstore micropore tape
- •He describes Myotape as a product that gently trains lips to stay closed while allowing opening if needed
- •James reports a two-week adaptation period, then near-nightly use for seven years and noticeable changes in sleep scores
- 28:34 – 34:23
Indoor CO2: flights, hotels, and why ‘green’ buildings can feel suffocating
James describes learning to measure indoor CO2 and being shocked by what he found while traveling. He cites decades of studies and explains threshold ranges he associates with cognitive impacts and symptoms, then claims airplanes and some sealed, “green-certified” hotels frequently have very high CO2 due to recirculated air.
- •James says indoor CO2 is often ignored despite people spending most time indoors
- •He references long-standing government research linking elevated CO2 with cognitive decline and symptoms at higher levels
- •He reports measuring very high CO2 on airplanes and connects it to drowsiness and feeling unwell after flights
- •He claims sealed-window, LEED/green-certified hotels can have especially high CO2 because of recirculation to cut HVAC costs
- 34:23 – 37:47
Measuring and crowdsourcing air quality: Aranet4 and a proposed CO2 database
Tim asks about tools, and James names the Aranet4 as the most accurate among many he tested against a professional device. He also describes an effort to build a shared database of CO2 readings for hotels and restaurants, arguing market pressure will drive change faster than governments.
- •James says many consumer CO2 monitors are unreliable based on his comparisons
- •He names Aranet4 and describes long battery life and accuracy as reasons he uses it
- •James says he logs CO2 readings in hotels and other spaces as he travels
- •He describes building a database by equipping many people with monitors so data can upload automatically
- 37:47 – 52:51
Travel kit and ‘Weirdville’: red lights, supplements, and a Soviet-era PEMF device
James lists what he travels with to protect sleep and recovery, including red nightlights, mouth tape, a CO2 monitor, and supplements. He also discusses experimenting with a small frequency-based device, talks broadly about PEMF devices, and suggests reading The Body Electric as an entry point into bioelectricity research.
- •James describes traveling with red lights as his main hotel light source and prioritizing sleep tape
- •He mentions carrying supplements like vitamin D, K2, vitamin E, CoQ10, and nattokinase (with an ‘emergency pack’)
- •He describes using a small device with many preset programs and says effects have been anecdotally significant for him
- •He defines PEMF as pulsed electromagnetic fields and recommends The Body Electric as a starting resource
- 52:51 – 1:00:55
Breathing for athletes: diaphragm mechanics and the BOLT score test
James argues athletes are increasingly focused on breathing but often have dysfunctional patterns, especially limited diaphragmatic engagement and chest-dominant breathing. He explains the BOLT (Body Oxygen Level Test) and how it’s performed, and connects better mechanics and CO2 tolerance with performance and recovery improvements.
- •James says many athletes don’t properly engage the diaphragm and rely on inefficient chest breathing
- •He links fewer, deeper breaths with lower heart rate, improved tolerance, and faster recovery
- •He explains BOLT as holding the breath after a normal exhale until the first urge to breathe (not a competition)
- •He says BOLT scores vary with fatigue and stress and can improve with consistent breathing changes
- 1:00:55 – 1:08:24
Inspiratory muscle training, manual therapy for the ribcage, and the ‘Relaxator’ focus tool
James supports hands-on work (physio/massage) to loosen the ribcage area for people who feel ‘frozen’ and says inspiratory resistance devices can help build better breathing muscle memory. He also describes using a small resistance device called The Relaxator during intense writing sessions to avoid ‘email apnea’ and prolong exhalation to shift toward a calmer state.
- •James suggests physio or massage to improve ribcage/diaphragm mobility, especially as flexibility declines with age
- •He says inspiratory muscle training devices can be effective and compares them to weighted bat training
- •Tim adds a warning that poor posture with these devices can cause intense back soreness; he suggests starting with low volume
- •James describes using The Relaxator continuously while working to slow breathing and extend exhalations
- 1:08:24 – 1:18:58
A detour into writing: the Writers Grotto, writer’s block, and the business of publishing
The conversation shifts to James’s writing life, including the San Francisco Writers Grotto and what he learned about the publishing business. James argues ‘writer’s block’ is often an excuse for hobbyists, then recounts quitting a corporate job abruptly, enduring difficult years, and learning hard lessons about promotion and industry priorities.
- •James describes the Writers Grotto as a community of professional writers that later became diluted by non-working ‘writers’
- •He says the biggest lessons were pragmatic: agents, publishers, and navigating the business side
- •James claims professionals writing to pay bills find ways to produce, while hobbyists often talk about writer’s block
- •He recounts quitting a corporate editorial role, losing contracts during a downturn, and later learning not to rely solely on publishers for promotion
- 1:18:58 – 1:33:53
From freediving to Breath: finding the ‘skeleton’ and structuring a massive draft
James identifies a reporting trip to the freediving world championships as a turning point that led to a book deal, but he later describes a painful publishing experience with that book. He then explains how Breath was rewritten repeatedly, cut from 290,000 words to 85,000, and ultimately organized around a Stanford experiment comparing mouth breathing vs. nasal breathing as the narrative through-line.
- •James says a freediving assignment produced a standout story and helped him secure a book deal
- •He describes disappointment when the book didn’t meet publisher expectations and promotion dropped quickly
- •He recounts rewriting Breath extensively and drastically reducing word count while working in isolation in a house in the woods
- •He says the Stanford nose-plug vs. nasal-breathing experiment became the central structure that allowed other stories to branch off
- 1:33:53 – 1:41:34
Breathwork culture critique, sleep-position experiments, and where to find James
James cautions that modern breathwork culture can create unnecessary barriers and complexity around basic breathing function. He outlines a stepwise approach for sleep troubleshooting—recording snoring, prioritizing nasal breathing, then experimenting with side sleeping and incline bed therapy—before closing with where listeners can find him and free protocols.
- •James argues the most helpful starting point for many people is simply becoming a ‘normal breather,’ not chasing advanced workshops
- •He suggests recording sleep audio for a week (SnoreLab/SnoreClock) and using wearables to look for oxygen dips
- •He describes positional strategies like side sleeping (including a back-of-shirt ‘ball’ trick) and incline bed therapy
- •James shares his Instagram and website handle (MrJamesNestor) and mentions offering free breathing protocols and audio tracks
