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Tim FerrissTim Ferriss

Kevin Kelly — Excellent Advice for Living | The Tim Ferriss Show

Brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 900M+ users http://linkedin.com/tim, Pique premium pu’er tea crystals https://piquelife.com/tim, and Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating http://eightsleep.com/Tim Resources from this episode: https://tim.blog/2023/04/26/kevin-kelly-excellent-advice-for-living/ Kevin Kelly (twitter.com/@kevin2kelly) helped launch and edit Wired magazine. He has written for The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal, among many other publications. He is the author of the new book Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier. https://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Advice-Living-Wisdom-Earlier/dp/0593654528?tag=offsitoftimfe-20 Other books by Kevin Kelly include Out of Control, the 1994 classic book on decentralized emergent systems; The Silver Cord, a graphic novel about robots and angels; What Technology Wants, a robust theory of technology; Vanishing Asia, his 50-year project to photograph the disappearing cultures of Asia, and The Inevitable: Understanding the 12 Technological Forces That Will Shape Our Future, a New York Times bestseller. Kevin is currently co-chair of The Long Now Foundation, which is building a clock in a mountain that will tick for 10,000 years. He also has a daily blog, a weekly podcast about cool tools, and a weekly newsletter, Recomendo, a free, one-page list of six very brief recommendations of cool stuff. He is also a Senior Maverick at Wired and lives in Pacifica, California. Please enjoy! [00:00] Start [01:59] Is Kevin Kelly the most interesting man in the world? [04:44] Kevin’s long bet against the human population. [11:29] Out Of Control. [15:58] Why did it take 11 years to complete The Silver Cord? [21:12] 1,000 True Fans. [26:48] Kevin’s failed campaign to discover all the species of life on Earth. [28:54] Stewart Brand. [33:57] Resurrecting extinct species. [36:22] Why Kevin believes optimists shape the future. [39:55] Active optimism vs. passive optimism. [43:55] What constitutes progress? [45:50] Is regression inevitable if we don’t embrace “degrowth?” [50:37] Kevin’s $20 time machine. [53:34] Will AI take our jobs? [1:05:57] The future of AI is dumbsmarten. [1:10:04] What’s currently underhyped? [1:12:48] Posting an AI picture a day keeps Kevin at play. [1:15:06] How Kevin uses AI chatbots to help write first drafts. [1:21:32] Potential scenarios for where AI will be going soon. [1:24:54] What prompted Kevin to write Excellent Advice for Living? [1:29:36] Examples of Kevin’s simple, tweetable advice. [1:33:12] Don’t aim to be the best. Be the only. [1:36:53] Good uses of time spent with one’s children. [1:40:17] Tips for traveling with children. [1:44:00] Being a tourist in your own town and troubleshooting advice. [1:46:53] What Kevin hopes readers will take away from Excellent Advice for Living. [1:48:16] Sabbaticals. [1:54:24] How Kevin uses YouTube. [1:58:11] Why is Kevin huge in China? [2:01:58] Fully becoming yourself and other parting thoughts. Erratum: In the interview, Nova Scotia was named as the setting for Anne of Green Gables, whereas the setting is Prince Edward Island. Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running. Sign up for "5-Bullet Friday" (Tim's free weekly email newsletter): https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-yt/ Follow the Tim Ferriss Podcast: https://tim.blog/podcast/ Visit the Tim Ferriss Blog: https://tim.blog/ Follow Tim Ferriss on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tferriss/ Follow Tim Ferriss on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timferriss/ Like Tim Ferriss on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/

Tim FerrisshostKevin Kellyguest
Apr 27, 20232h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

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At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Kevin Kelly on Optimism, AI Interns, and Living Well

  1. Kelly explains his long bet that global population will peak and decline by 2060, driven by falling birth rates, and notes that rising living standards have historically come with rising population.
  2. He argues that optimism is a deliberate, active practice because complicated things working is improbable, and he supports this with a view of historical progress and a 1975 trip to a medieval-like Afghan town.
  3. On AI, Kelly says it replaces tasks rather than jobs, describes current systems as universal personal interns, predicts many specialized and mostly invisible AIs ('dumbsmarten'), and shares how he uses them for art and first drafts.
  4. He recounts past projects, including the 11-year graphic novel The Silver Cord, the too-early All Species effort, the 1,000 True Fans essay, and how he became hugely popular in China.
  5. Discussing Excellent Advice for Living, he shares short portable maxims on being the only rather than the best, time with kids, sabbaticals and rest, and fully becoming yourself.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Population may peak and then fall, with unknown consequences for living standards.

Kelly says falling fertility is global and nothing tried has reversed it, and that rising living standards have so far only come with rising population, so a shrinking market is unprecedented.

Optimism is how complicated good things get made.

Kelly argues that breakdown is probable and working complexity is improbable, so imagining and believing in good outcomes shapes the future. Ferriss adds the distinction between active and passive optimism, which Kelly praises.

AI replaces tasks, not (yet) jobs.

Kelly claims he knows of no one who lost a job to AI so far, and he treats current AI as interns whose unpolished output needs checking and curating, with artists becoming directors of those interns.

The future of AI is plural, specialized and largely invisible.

Kelly expects many engineered AIs with trade-offs ('dumbsmarten'), mostly working behind the scenes, and argues that consciousness is a liability in a tool. He thinks AI is underhyped long term but overhyped for near-term mass unemployment.

1,000 True Fans offers an alternative definition of success.

Kelly says it works because success does not require a huge hit, but tending fans takes substantial effort and isn't for everyone. Where you start is not where you will land.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

It is much easier to imagine how things break than it is to see how they work, and that's why entrepreneurs and all the others are rightly lauded because they're going against that grain.

— Kevin Kelly

Technologies succeed when we don't see them anymore. We don't think about them. They become boring.

— Kevin Kelly

Don't aim to be the best. Be the only.

— Kevin Kelly

The best thing for your work ethic is to have a rest ethic.

— Kevin Kelly

Your goal in life is to be able to say on the day before you die that you've fully become yourself.

— Kevin Kelly

Long bet on population declineActive vs. passive optimismProgress and degrowthAI as universal personal interns1,000 True FansExcellent Advice for LivingSabbaticals and rest ethic

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