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Tim FerrissMike Rowe Interview (Full Episode) | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)
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CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 15:47
Meeting at TED and the Sheep Testicles Story
After Tim Ferriss's long intro, he and Mike Rowe recall meeting on an escalator at a TED event. Rowe tells the story of biting the testicles off lambs on Dirty Jobs and how it led to his TED talk challenging experts.
- •Tim thanks Mike for Dirty Jobs getting him through a punishing job
- •Mike recounts being sent to TED by Discovery with nothing prepared
- •Ranchers' old-fashioned method versus the rubber-band method PETA recommended
- •Sheep treated the old way were doing better than those with rubber bands
- •The talk challenged the primacy of experts
- 15:47 – 18:26
No Second Takes and Improvisation
Tim asks where Mike's gift for impromptu performance comes from. Mike credits the no-second-takes rule on Dirty Jobs and the pursuit of authenticity.
- •Dirty Jobs insisted on no second takes for authenticity
- •The second take is always a performance
- •Mike says he is usually better at take one
- •The same principle applies to speeches, posts and podcasts
- 18:26 – 29:20
Talking About a Pencil: The QVC Years
Mike explains how he landed a QVC job after losing a bet while dressed as a Viking. He describes the pencil audition and the chaos of live graveyard-shift television.
- •Rick's $100 bet led him to the audition
- •Audition: talk about a pencil for eight minutes
- •Feature-benefit approach to filling time
- •Calling viewers in to explain products like a Greek chorus
- •QVC as an honest, transactional monument to capitalism
- 29:20 – 42:51
Freelancing, American Airlines and the Magic D3
After his third firing from QVC, Mike embraces being a freelance mercenary with no agent or manager. He describes the American Airlines show On Air and the must-fly D3 pass that took him around the world.
- •Etymology of freelance as a knight without a lord
- •Taking jobs of any quality, eight months on and four months off
- •On Air TV for American Airlines
- •The D3 pass and its use on dates
- •Staff finally confiscated the pass
- 42:51 – 52:27
Hubris, His Grandfather, and the Birth of Dirty Jobs
Mike describes the hubris of his freelance years and the reckoning when his grandfather fell ill. He wanted to do something on TV that looked like work, which led to the sewer segment and then Dirty Jobs.
- •Romantic view of himself as a mercenary who works when he likes
- •Grandfather as a master tradesman with the chip of knowing
- •Somebody's Got To Do It segment on Evening Magazine
- •Twenty segments cobbled together and sold to Discovery
- •Producer Craig Piligian helped take the pilot to Discovery
- 52:27 – 57:12
Pitching Discovery and Embracing Transparent Ignorance
Mike explains that he owns himself rather than Dirty Jobs, and how the show seeded the mikeroweWORKS foundation. He describes pitching Discovery on a fan rather than another expert and being aggressively transparent about his ignorance.
- •He owns himself, not Dirty Jobs, which launched dozens of shows and the foundation
- •The Discovery pitch: they needed a fan with access
- •The plaque phenomenon of faking knowledge
- •Aggressive transparency as the way to be authentic
- •Suspicion of playbooks that harden into dogma
- 57:12 – 1:02:57
Creative Constraints, Antagonists and the Ford Campaign
Mike says rigid parameters like QVC's format and Discovery's expectations gave him contrast to stand out against. He applies the same idea to his Ford work, which turned Dirty Jobs DNA into real-people ads.
- •The blank page lacks an antagonist
- •QVC's rigor made small deviations look subversive
- •Discovery's expert-heavy brand made a non-expert stand out
- •Ford campaign: 22 commercials shot in one day
- •Campaigns built on real people rather than scripts
- 1:02:57 – 1:11:22
Follow Your Passion, Bring It With You
Prompted by a question about pursuing opportunity over passion, Mike explains his objection to workplace platitudes. He uses septic-tank worker Les Swanson to argue that you should bring passion to your work rather than follow it.
- •Alternative platitudes versus Successories posters
- •Les Swanson became a septic-tank worker because nobody else was doing it
- •Being good at the work came before loving it
- •Never follow your passion, but always bring it with you
- •Discussion of gratitude, patterns and virtuous procrastination
- 1:11:22 – 1:24:16
Vocabulary, Books and Recommendations
Mike credits reading and stage plays for his vocabulary. He and Tim then swap book recommendations, including John D. MacDonald's Travis McGee novels and Bill Bryson's At Home.
- •Playing with language and finding different ways to say things
- •Mike's most-gifted book is by John D. MacDonald, with Travis McGee as the hero
- •Bill Bryson's At Home and the sinking-church premise
- •Tim recommends Motherless Brooklyn, John McPhee, The Graveyard Book and The Baron in the Trees
- 1:24:16 – 1:31:33
Great Voices and Narrators
Tim asks about voiceover performers who impress Mike. Mike says the best narrators are anonymous and transparent, and he talks about Orson Welles, Sally Kellerman and William Shatner.
- •Best narrators hide and let the story come through
- •Morgan Freeman's voice is always recognizable
- •Peter Coyote and Liev Schreiber admired
- •Orson Welles furious in a recording booth
- •Shatner's phone card venture and Priceline
- 1:31:33 – 1:39:28
Hard Work, Telling Your Own Story and Peripeteia
Tim and Mike discuss the false dichotomy between working hard and working smart, and how turning a passion into a job can spoil it. Mike then says he can't easily tell his own story and explains peripeteia and the mismatch between his fans' assumptions and his actual skills.
- •Hard work matters when applied to the right things
- •Turning a hobby into a job can ruin it
- •Mike finds being great at telling your own story sociopathic
- •Peripeteia as the moment a protagonist's self-image collapses
- •Fans assume he can fix toilets and pour foundations; he can't
- 1:39:28 – 1:50:08
The Way I Heard It and the Bruno Mars Story
Mike explains why he started his short podcast as an homage to Paul Harvey. He tells the Bruno Mars story as an example of finding a person's transformational moment, and the two connect it to Dan Carlin and being different.
- •The Way I Heard It is a five-minute storytelling podcast inspired by Paul Harvey
- •Bruno Mars as Peter Hernandez, a genius mimic who became original
- •Changing his name was the last thing he gave up
- •Focus on the peripeteia in each person's life
- •Being different, not just incrementally better
- 1:50:08 – 2:09:09
Billboards, Work Ethic Scholarships and Rethinking College
Mike answers rapid-fire questions, naming his granddad as his model of success and telling the billboard story. He explains mikeroweWORKS work ethic scholarships and argues against sending students straight from high school into debt. Tim shares his own gap year and they debate whether free online education will help.
- •Granddad's advice: get a different toolbox
- •Lamar billboard offer for help wanted ads for scholarships
- •Skills gap and work ethic scholarships that weigh attendance over GPA
- •Suggestion to take a year of work before college
- •Curiosity as the real driver, versus access alone
- 2:09:09 – 2:21:23
Drinking with Geniuses, Advice and Wrap-Up
Mike describes his idea for a show called Drinking with Geniuses. He gives advice to his 30-year-old self, says where to find his podcast, and closes with Robert Plant's idea that there is time to change the road you're on.
- •Drinking with Geniuses idea sparked by the Russian meteorite
- •Advice to his 30-year-old self: it will be fine, stop wearing makeup
- •How to sample The Way I Heard It
- •Where to find Mike and the show notes
- •There is time to change the road you're on
