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Tim FerrissRick Rubin Interview (Full Episode) | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)
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CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 5:59
Intro and Rick Rubin's Background
Tim Ferriss introduces Rick Rubin, his career as a producer, and the unusual sauna setting for the interview. He also plugs his drumming episode before the conversation begins.
- •Rubin's résumé includes Def Jam and work with artists across many genres
- •Ferriss says Rubin's answers have layers that reveal themselves over time
- •The interview is recorded in a very hot barrel sauna
- •Ferriss promotes the drumming episode of his TV show
- 5:59 – 7:57
The Sauna and Ice Bath Setup
Ferriss and Rubin describe the barrel sauna and the metal tub of ice just outside it. They compare temperatures and settle in for the conversation.
- •The sauna heater is far larger than usual for the room's size
- •Ferriss sits on the floor because he can't handle the heat as well
- •The ice tub is about 38 degrees today
- •The sauna runs at roughly 195 degrees, with hopes of 220
- 7:57 – 22:55
Losing 135 Pounds: Phil Maffetone and the Diet
Rubin explains how he went from 318 pounds to losing 135-140 pounds. He started with Phil Maffetone's lifestyle changes, then a nutritionist's high-protein, low-calorie diet finished the job. He says the sequence mattered.
- •Rubin was vegan for 20-something years and still reached 318 pounds
- •Maffetone had him get morning sun, do low heart rate exercise, and eat some animal protein
- •A nutritionist's high-protein, low-calorie diet took off about 130-135 pounds over 14 months
- •Rubin believes the diet would not have worked without the earlier groundwork
- •He now eats lots of protein and no grain, and keeps track of calories
- 22:55 – 24:27
What a Producer Does and Becoming One
Ferriss asks Rubin what he does for a living. Rubin says he helps artists get their best performance and choose or develop material. He describes coming to music as a fan and his early success with LL Cool J and the Beastie Boys.
- •Rubin says he can only describe what he does, not what producers generally do
- •He helps get the best performance and sets the creative direction
- •He studied philosophy, then film and television, at NYU
- •His first album, with LL Cool J, cost about $8,000 and sold 900,000 copies
- •He works across genres, which he thinks keeps his perspective fresh
- 24:27 – 31:39
Letting Artists Discover Their Voice
Rubin describes helping artists find their true selves and what gets in the way, such as commercial thinking, competition, self-doubt and ego. He says to compete only with your past self and to take in great art.
- •Commercial considerations, competition, self-doubt and ego block the best work
- •Aim to write a better song than yesterday rather than beat The Beatles
- •The work is more heart than head, with the head organizing afterward
- •Immerse yourself in the greatest works of all time, not what's on the radio
- •Rubin suggests starting with lists of the top 100 albums to learn the greats
- 31:39 – 40:35
Inspiration from Nature and the Range of Genres
Rubin says inspiration comes daily from nature, such as sunsets, birds and stars. He then discusses his path from hip-hop to Slayer's Reign in Blood and the Black Sabbath album, and why he refuses to water down extreme art.
- •Rubin aims for music that takes your breath away like a sunset
- •He came to both hip-hop and metal as a fan rather than a technician
- •Slayer's Reign in Blood was made harder rather than watered down for the major label
- •He believes the best art divides the audience
- 40:35 – 46:49
Listening to Artists, Calm, and Overwhelm
Rubin says he listens closely and reflects back what artists reveal about themselves, citing a friend's book. He talks about meditating since age 14, using ice baths when disrupted, and handling overwhelm by talking it through.
- •Rubin says that if you listen, people tell you everything
- •He has meditated since age 14 and says sauna and ice cycling leaves nothing bothering you
- •Business politics are what disrupt him most
- •He focuses his life on art and rearranges friends' furniture
- •Talking about a sticky situation usually brings people closer
- 46:49 – 56:49
Defining Success and Recommended Books
Rubin says success starts with being happy and names Don Wildman and Laird Hamilton as examples. He recommends the Tao Te Ching and Wherever You Go, There You Are, and a Nick Cave documentary.
- •Rubin rules out people who are financially successful but unhappy
- •Don Wildman is 80, does pull-ups and stays curious
- •The Stephen Mitchell Tao Te Ching reads differently every time
- •Wherever You Go, There You Are is for new and veteran meditators
- •He recommends the documentary 20,000 Days on Earth
- 56:49 – 59:53
Working with Jay-Z on 99 Problems
Rubin recounts producing 99 Problems for The Black Album and appearing in the video. He describes how Jay-Z wrote the words in his head and recorded them without writing anything down.
- •Jay-Z asked his 10 favorite producers to each do one song on his planned last album
- •They spent a week in the studio trying different things
- •Jay-Z listened to the track for about half an hour, then recorded it without writing anything
- •Mark Romanek's idea put Rubin in the video
- •Rubin calls Jay-Z humble, honest and a deep soul
- 59:53 – 1:10:02
Sauna, Ice Baths and Underwater Training
Rubin explains how he was introduced to sauna by Chris Chelios and to ice baths through Joaquim Noah. He describes the underwater weight training developed with Laird Hamilton.
- •Chris Chelios credited daily sauna for his long hockey career
- •The ice tub took hot and cold cycling to a new level
- •Underwater walks with weights progressed to jumping from the deep end with dumbbells
- •They worked up from 10 jumps in a row to 100
- •Rubin currently does hyperbaric oxygen and the Wim Hof breathing method
- 1:10:02 – 1:13:08
Breaking Down the Impossible
Rubin describes how Laird taught him to split an exercise into thirds, and says he uses the same approach with artists who are blocked. He says his weight loss convinced him that anyone can learn almost anything with the right information.
- •Laird said to say 'you haven't done it yet' instead of 'I can't'
- •Rubin gives blocked artists tiny homework such as writing one word
- •Laird mastered the slack line by falling off and getting back on for hours
- •Rubin believes we can all be our best at something with the right information
- 1:13:08 – 1:20:51
Advice to Younger Selves, Perfectionism, and Closing
Rubin says he would tell his 20-year-old self to have more fun and his 30-year-old self to be kinder to himself. Ferriss raises his struggle with perfectionism, and Rubin calls the idea that it is needed a myth. The interview ends as the heat gets to both men.
- •Rubin worked in a dark room on music seven days a week for about 20 years
- •He would advise his 30-year-old self to be kinder to himself
- •Ferriss worries that easing up will cost him his edge
- •Rubin calls that a myth and says killing yourself helps neither you nor your audience
- •Both end the interview to get back in the ice
