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Uncapped with Jack AltmanUncapped with Jack Altman

The Future of AI Software Security | Ep. 39

Daniele Perito is Co-founder and Executive Chairman of depthfirst, an AI-native security platform that understands your code, business logic, and infrastructure to find real vulnerabilities, slash false positives, and give developers actionable fixes in their workflow. Daniele is also Co-founder and Board Member of Faire, where he previously served as Chief Data Officer and helped build the company’s data, risk, and analytics foundations from the early days to a multi-billion dollar valuation. Before co-founding Faire, Daniele worked at Square and was on the founding team of Cash App, where he focused on security, fraud, and risk systems supporting products used by millions of merchants and consumers. We covered: - Inception stories from Faire and Cash App - The ultimate truth seeking machine - Building superhuman attackers with AI - Who wins over time: attackers vs defenders - Why security feels like its own world Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (0:40) The founding Faire insight (4:34) Operational rigor of marketplace businesses (10:39) Starting a company now vs in 2017 (12:01) The inception story of Cash App (16:22) depthfirst’s mission (18:08) AI security landscape (26:10) Security is a fantasy world (31:15) Building superhuman attackers for defense (38:27) Roles of humans and AI in security (39:14) Platform vs pipeline businesses More on Daniele: https://depthfirst.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/danieleperito/ More on Jack: https://www.altcap.com/ https://x.com/jaltma https://linktr.ee/uncappedpod Email: friends@uncappedpod.com

Daniele PeritoguestJack Altmanhost
Jan 14, 202645mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

AI-driven security and building Depthfirst to defend software ecosystems

  1. Daniele Perito (co-founder of Faire, early Cash App leader) explains how marketplace businesses demand operational rigor, truth-seeking through experimentation, and comfort with uncertainty—especially before true product-market fit.
  2. He contrasts starting companies in 2017 versus today’s AI era, describing faster-moving “shifting ground,” higher stakes, and more frequent strategic resets.
  3. Perito lays out Depthfirst’s thesis: AI will dramatically lower the cost of attacking software (“a thousand AI bears”), forcing a step-change in defensive capabilities.
  4. Depthfirst aims to unify fragmented security tooling into an always-on AI security engineer that understands context, reduces false positives, verifies assumptions, and eventually uses reinforcement learning to build “superhuman attackers” for defensive testing.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Product-market fit can flip from ambiguous to obvious overnight.

Faire’s breakthrough came when they reframed their offer as “try before you buy” (net terms + returns). Customer comprehension and pull changed immediately, clarifying what PMF actually feels like versus wishful thinking.

Marketplace businesses force epistemic humility and tighter rigor.

Because small changes can ripple through a recursive supply/demand system, Faire relied heavily on data analysis, A/B testing, and risk modeling—while still needing intuition to avoid purely incremental decisions.

TAM estimates are often unknowable early; treat them as directional.

Perito describes spending years triangulating Faire’s true market size. Early certainty is rare; momentum and repeated evidence matter more than precise TAM math in years 1–3.

The AI era changes founder psychology: constant re-evaluation is required.

Unlike 2017’s relatively stable assumptions, Perito argues today’s environment shifts every few months—market structure, product capabilities, and competition can all change quickly, increasing both paranoia and potential upside.

A single person can create outsized impact by targeting the biggest constraint.

At Square/Cash App, Perito focused on the highest-leverage risk: fraud losses. By building rules and ML systems that reduced losses ~80%, he helped unlock Cash App’s ability to scale.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

There isn't just going to be one bear, there's gonna be a thousand AI bears.

— Daniele Perito

The market is an incredible truth seeking machine for the type of questions that it can investigate.

— Daniele Perito

Individually, in a company of a few hundred people, there has to be a way for me to x the value of this entire business.

— Daniele Perito

Without much better computer security, we do not get to play the AI safety and control game.

— Daniele Perito

I'm always about making three 90% confidence decisions every week rather than one 99% confidence decision every quarter.

— Daniele Perito

Faire’s founding insight: risk removal for retailersMarketplace rigor: supply/demand balance, risk models, experimentationCash App origins: hack-week project, early security/fraud controlsAI era company-building: rapid change, higher stakesDepthfirst mission: secure world’s software as prerequisite for AI safetyAI security engineering: agent swarms, context mapping, PR scanningSecurity market dysfunction: false positives, hard-to-measure value

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