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What Now? With Trevor Noah

Carter Sherman: How Shame Became the New Sex Ed

Everyone’s talking about Gen Z’s sex recession - but maybe it’s not about sex at all.

Carter ShermanguestTrevor NoahhostEugenehostCarter ShermancameoEugenehostEugenehost

Nov 13, 20251h 36mWatch on YouTube ↗

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Gen Z’s “sex recession” headline vs. what’s really going on
The episode opens by challenging the alarmist framing that Gen Z is simply “not having sex.” Carter Sherman sets up the core tension: U.S. sex ed is mostly fear-based safety messaging, while porn becomes a de facto (but flawed) pleasure educator—fueling confusion and anxiety.
- •Gen Z is having less sex and starting later than prior generations
- •Social media and isolation shape modern dating and intimacy
- •U.S. sex ed teaches risk avoidance, not pleasure or connection
- •Porn fills the education gap but omits safety and realism
Names, marriage, and the ‘Dr. Conman’ detour (and why it matters)
A playful exchange about last names and identity turns into a mini-commentary on gender expectations and tradition. The banter sets the tone for a broader conversation about how culture quietly scripts what’s ‘normal’ in relationships.
- •Carter explains she kept her surname; the ‘Conman’ name joke
- •Discussion of men taking wives’ last names and social perceptions
- •How tradition and status attach to relationship choices
- •Humor as a bridge into heavier cultural topics
Carter’s early reporting: condoms, pleasure, and what sex ed ignores
Trevor traces Carter’s writing trajectory from an early piece on condoms and female pleasure to her current work. This becomes a launching point for the episode’s thesis: the U.S. often treats sex as danger, not a human skill that requires communication and care.
- •Early question: why condom design/research centers men’s experience
- •Pleasure is rarely treated as legitimate health information
- •Sex education commonly frames sex as pathology or risk
- •Why studying sex reveals broader cultural power dynamics
Virginity as anxiety: crying in the car and the status-symbol flip
Carter recounts being consumed by shame about still being a virgin at 17—an experience that helped spark her interest in sexual culture. The hosts unpack how virginity has flipped from ‘prized’ to ‘lame’ in the U.S., despite many peers also being inexperienced.
- •Carter’s ‘last virgin’ panic and her candid talk with her mom
- •Virginity’s meaning shifts across place and time (including deadly stakes elsewhere)
- •Young people internalize a timeline for sex that doesn’t match reality
- •Stigma thrives when peers embellish and real nuance stays unspoken
Why society polices young people’s sex (and the politics of control)
The conversation moves from personal shame to structural forces: why headlines and moral panic fixate on youth sexuality. Carter argues that controlling young people’s sex is a way to control the future—culturally, politically, and economically.
- •Media cycles invent phrases (‘hookup culture,’ ‘sex recession’) focused on youth
- •Policing youth sexuality shapes narratives about family and ‘good’ citizenship
- •Sex becomes a tool for moral boundary-setting and social control
- •Institutions (not just parents) transmit shame and fear
Abstinence-only sex ed and the $2 billion project to recreate the 1950s
Carter details how U.S. institutions have funded abstinence-only programming for decades, even across party lines. The group connects abstinence messaging to a broader political vision of the ‘ideal’ American family—implicitly white, heterosexual, and mid-century nuclear.
- •Since 2000, over $2B spent on abstinence-only sex ed
- •Programs often embed gender roles and narrow family ideals
- •Political utility: shaping the ‘American family’ narrative
- •Public opinion often favors medically accurate, comprehensive sex ed
The ‘sex recession’ isn’t about sex—it’s about vulnerability and connection
Trevor and Carter argue the real concern isn’t frequency of sex but the loss of skills: handling rejection, building intimacy, and tolerating awkwardness. They reframe the conversation from morality to relational capacity and emotional development.
- •Why ‘less sex’ headlines miss the deeper social problem
- •Sex matters as practice in vulnerability and connection
- •Skills at risk: risking rejection, handling discomfort, communicating wants
- •Treating sex as a scoreboard erodes healthy intimacy
Gen Z interviews: incompetent sex ed, a gender divide, and ‘hegemonic masculinity’
Carter summarizes patterns from interviewing 100+ people under 30: most felt their sex ed was useless and shame-based. She describes a gender divide—women and queer people often had more to say—while many young men had fewer tools to articulate feelings due to narrow masculine scripts.
- •‘Mean Girls’ sex ed: ‘If you have sex, you will die’ as a shared reference
- •Young men often socialized to ‘already know’ sex and not ask questions
- •Women/queer people face more friction, prompting more reflection
- •Hegemonic masculinity: men expected to be emotionless, always wanting sex
Porn as the default teacher: what it teaches (and what it never shows)
With formal education absent, porn becomes a primary reference point—especially for pleasure—despite being scripted and unrealistic. Carter emphasizes what porn leaves out: communication, consent, humor, awkwardness, and the ordinary pace of real sex.
- •Most teens encounter porn; it becomes a stand-in for sex ed
- •Porn is ‘Grand Theft Auto driving school’: stylized, not life-like
- •Missing elements: communication, consent, emotional context, imperfection
- •Not ‘porn is bad’—but porn can’t be the only curriculum
Rough sex, choking, and normalization without consent—plus the ‘algorithm’ effect
Carter describes how many young people believe porn has warped sexuality, particularly around rough sex and choking—often occurring without explicit consent. Trevor adds that algorithms and social media amplify insecurity and performance pressure, making ‘abnormal’ look standard.
- •Young people’s ‘deep story’: porn harmed them, even if science is murky
- •Under-40s far more likely to report choking experiences during sex
- •Consent frequently absent; choking can be dangerous
- •Algorithms/social media intensify sexual performance anxiety and shame
From sex ed to ‘sex mental health’: fear-based messaging and pandemic isolation
Trevor proposes that sex education must include mental health and relationship skills, not just anatomy and disease. Carter agrees, describing even ‘good’ sex ed as often trauma-based, while the pandemic pushed key social-development moments online—reducing real-world resilience.
- •Need for ‘sex mental health’ and healthy-relationship education
- •Even liberal-area sex ed can pathologize sex through fear tactics
- •Pandemic removed formative experiences (prom, graduation, social practice)
- •Outsourcing life online weakens coping with embarrassment and rejection
The ‘fuckability trap’: social media feedback loops, filters, and self-objectification
Carter explains philosopher Amia Srinivasan’s idea of ‘fuckability’—desire shaped by politics—and how social platforms quantify desirability. Likes, matches, and filters produce self-objectification and can reduce real-life intimacy because sex becomes another arena for judgment.
- •‘Fuckability’ as politics shaping which bodies are seen as desirable
- •Platforms reward sexualized images, training people on ‘what gets likes’
- •Quantified desirability encourages self-objectification and anxiety
- •Filters can ‘catfish’ users into disliking their real appearance
Sexting as a new normal—and why shame makes accountability impossible
Sexting is framed as increasingly mainstream, not inherently harmful. Carter argues that stigmatizing nudes prevents people from seeking help when violations occur, and she supports reframing ‘revenge porn’ as intimate image abuse to clarify harm and responsibility.
- •Generational shift: ‘everybody sends nudes’ is becoming normalized
- •Stigma blocks support and accountability when images are leaked
- •Terminology matters: ‘intimate image abuse’ vs. ‘revenge porn’
- •Nuance: acknowledging risk without victim-blaming
Campus sex politics: Title IX whiplash, bureaucracy, and what Me Too didn’t change
Carter describes Title IX as a political football that swings with administrations, often making processes unusable for survivors. The hosts discuss institutional responsibility, legal paradoxes (e.g., alcohol and consent), and how Me Too produced limited systemic reform for students.
- •Title IX rules shift across Obama/Trump/Biden administrations
- •Survivor processes can become adversarial and discouraging
- •Colleges often ignore environmental factors like alcohol culture
- •Me Too cultural impact vs. limited campus-relevant legal change
Beyond punishment: restorative justice, learning from the margins, and hope in messiness
Carter shares that for her own assault, acknowledgment and apology could have been meaningful—opening a broader discussion about restorative justice and non-punitive outcomes. The episode closes by arguing that sex will always be political and messy, but that grappling with nuance can be a source of agency and hope.
- •Restorative justice and wider notions of accountability beyond jail
- •Learning from BDSM and other ‘margin’ communities about consent frameworks
- •Fear and politicization push people to opt out; community action can push back
- •Hope: embracing sex’s complexity instead of reducing it to binaries

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