Malcolm Gladwell: Do Fairytales Make Adulthood Harder?

1. 0:00 – 0:04

   Intro

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:04 – 1:33

   Rewriting Disney and the Confidence to Go Off Script

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:04

      This should be a business for the three of us. I would, I think you, all of us should contribute to the, to the re-imagining of these flawed classics.

   2. TNTrevor Noah0:12

      What, the Disney ones?

   3. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:13

      Yeah.

   4. TNTrevor Noah0:13

      Yeah, but, but here's ... Okay, but have you watched the newer ones?

   5. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:17

      Well, I've watched-

   6. TNTrevor Noah0:18

      Moana?

   7. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:18

      'Cause they, no, because they have been reimagined.

   8. TNTrevor Noah0:20

      We did-

   9. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:20

      I didn't wanna spoil it for you, 'cause I was thinking you were going-

   10. TNTrevor Noah0:21

       No, no, we did Moana the other night.

   11. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:23

       Yeah.

   12. TNTrevor Noah0:24

       But it gets really violent. I'm like-

   13. EUEugene0:26

       That's what it's like. That's what it'd be like to be young, female, and Black. [laughs]

   14. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:32

       [laughs]

   15. TNTrevor Noah0:32

       [laughs]

   16. EUEugene0:33

       When your friend is a chicken and one is a pig.

   17. TNTrevor Noah0:36

       [laughs]

   18. EUEugene0:36

       And you're stuck with an older guy [laughs]

   19. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:39

       A guy.

   20. EUEugene0:39

       With a catamaran.

   21. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:41

       [laughs]

   22. EUEugene0:41

       And your gran is a ghost. And your grandfather ran away from your dad-

   23. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:45

       That's-

   24. EUEugene0:45

       ... and he's the spirit of the seas.

   25. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:47

       The chicken-

   26. TNTrevor Noah0:47

       Eugene watches a lot of Moana.

   27. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:49

       Do you have kids?

   28. TNTrevor Noah0:49

       As you can tell.

   29. EUEugene0:50

       One, yes.

   30. MGMalcolm Gladwell0:51

       How old?
3. 1:33 – 3:06

   Is Pickleball More Democratic Than Golf?

   1. TNTrevor Noah1:33

      In fact, here's another reason, Malcolm Gladwell, you should be pro pickleball.

   2. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:37

      Mm-hmm.

   3. EUEugene1:37

      [laughs] Here he comes.

   4. TNTrevor Noah1:38

      I know your views, I know your views on golf.

   5. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:40

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   6. TNTrevor Noah1:41

      I know how much you hate the fact that, like, golf takes up inordinate amounts of spaces, and it's like, it's unfairly apportioned to the ... Pickleball-

   7. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:50

      Yes

   8. TNTrevor Noah1:50

      ... turns one tennis court into four pickleball courts.

   9. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:54

      Wait, is that true?

   10. TNTrevor Noah1:55

       That is completely true.

   11. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:57

       Four?

   12. TNTrevor Noah1:57

       Four.

   13. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:58

       It quadruples the output.

   14. TNTrevor Noah1:59

       Yes, it quadru- And-

   15. EUEugene2:00

       Can you lobby for one to be turned into a-

   16. TNTrevor Noah2:02

       And, and-

   17. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:03

       Yeah

   18. TNTrevor Noah2:03

       ... I did. I did. And most pickleball games, most, are generally played by four people. Most tennis, like, get-togethers are two people. So technically-

   19. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:14

       So it's, it's really eight, 8X the productivity of the space.

   20. TNTrevor Noah2:17

       Te- uh-huh.

   21. EUEugene2:18

       I wish you could come see a match.

   22. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:21

       All right. All right.

   23. TNTrevor Noah2:21

       Uh-huh, no, that's, that's why I think you would love it.

   24. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:23

       Yeah.

   25. TNTrevor Noah2:23

       It is, it is the sport of the people.

   26. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:25

       [laughs] All right, all right, all right.

   27. TNTrevor Noah2:27

       [laughs]

   28. EUEugene2:28

       [laughs]

   29. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:29

       There's, there's a point at which [laughs]

   30. TNTrevor Noah2:33

       [laughs]
4. 3:06 – 4:55

   Why Old Disney Movies Feel Better Than New Ones

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:06

      music, which is a blue-

   2. TNTrevor Noah3:07

      And what's your, what's your favorite show? Bluey, Cocomelon-

   3. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:09

      No, no, so-

   4. TNTrevor Noah3:09

      ... Peppa Pig?

   5. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:10

      Well, the good thing, there's a lot of Peppa Pig going on in my life right now.

   6. TNTrevor Noah3:13

      Okay.

   7. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:14

      Um, although I'm trying to phase it out. We, we're onto the Disney movies.

   8. TNTrevor Noah3:18

      Hey.

   9. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:19

      We've, and I've discovered, I'm discovering all these things that other people discovered many years ago, so I'm gonna ... And this is the thing about parenting, is that parenting is the, um, is the, is ... It, it rides on the illusion that you are discovering for the first time what the rest of the world has known-

   10. TNTrevor Noah3:35

       [laughs]

   11. EUEugene3:35

       [laughs]

   12. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:35

       ... for, like, you know, millennia.

   13. TNTrevor Noah3:37

       You figured it out.

   14. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:38

       So, uh, I have discovered that, like, the early Disney movies are 50 times better than the re- most recent ones.

   15. TNTrevor Noah3:44

       Yes.

   16. EUEugene3:44

       Yes.

   17. MGMalcolm Gladwell3:45

       Like, I never saw these as a kid, so I'm seeing for the first time. So I've watched a lot of, for example, Snow White. And S- first of all, Snow White is astonishingly good. But the best part about it, and this is actually, 'cause I've been in, part of a larger thing I'm become very interested in, the best part about Snow White-

   18. TNTrevor Noah4:04

       Mm-hmm

   19. MGMalcolm Gladwell4:04

       ... is all of the ... And also even more so probably with, um, Cinderella.

   20. TNTrevor Noah4:11

       Okay.

   21. MGMalcolm Gladwell4:12

       Is their willingness to go on these tangents. Like, in Cinderella, there's, like, 20 minutes on the mou- on the mouse playing with the cat, Lucifer, and they leave the whole story, set it over here, and it's just the cat and the mouse. And the c- the self-confidence of the filmmaker, they're like, "The kids will, are happy to put-"

   22. TNTrevor Noah4:33

       They appreciate this

   23. MGMalcolm Gladwell4:33

       ..."Cinderella to the side-"

   24. TNTrevor Noah4:34

       Mm-hmm

   25. MGMalcolm Gladwell4:34

       "... and just go with the mouse and the cat for 20 minutes, and they'll come back to us. We have such confidence in our story and our storytelling ability." And I feel like today, when you watch the newer ones, there's never any of these digressions.

   26. TNTrevor Noah4:46

       No. No.

   27. MGMalcolm Gladwell4:46

       And one is they don't understand how kids' minds work, or even, pardon me, how human being's mind works. Well, you know this as a c- comic.

5. 4:55 – 7:47

   The Lost Art of Digression in Comedy and Storytelling

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell4:55

      In comedy, right, it's the digressions that often get you the biggest laugh.

   2. TNTrevor Noah4:59

      Yes.

   3. EUEugene4:59

      Mm-hmm.

   4. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:00

      When you veer off the path, boom, right?

   5. TNTrevor Noah5:02

      It's like, but I think conversations are the same.

   6. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:03

      Are the same, yeah.

   7. TNTrevor Noah5:04

      I think, I think in everything the surprise is what actually gets you going versus where you thought you were gonna, you were gonna get to.

   8. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:10

      Exactly.

   9. TNTrevor Noah5:11

      But it, so why aren't they doing that with the kids? Why c- why can't they-

   10. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:13

       Yeah, but I think-

   11. TNTrevor Noah5:13

       ... why did they forget the digression?

   12. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:15

       I think it's a, I think it's a market economics thing. I think they've ... I, I have this fight oftentimes with people who work in new television, right?

   13. TNTrevor Noah5:23

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:23

       Especially in streaming. I think they read data wrong.

   15. TNTrevor Noah5:26

       Mm-hmm.

   16. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:26

       That's my opinion, is that they, they look at the data and they go, "Oh, if, if it's not engaging in the first two minutes, then people are not gonna watch, and you've got to catch their attention, and people like short content, and people like this, and people like that, and people..." But they've made all these assumptions based on data.

   17. TNTrevor Noah5:40

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:40

       But data, as you know better than anyone, you can read data however you like, and it can tell you the story you want it to tell you.

   19. TNTrevor Noah5:45

       Mm-hmm.

   20. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:45

       So I think a lot of the things that are being made today are being made with the idea that people don't have an attention span, but I don't think that that's true.

   21. TNTrevor Noah5:54

       Yeah.

   22. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:54

       People still have attention spans.

   23. TNTrevor Noah5:56

       Oh, I think very much.

   24. MGMalcolm Gladwell5:57

       The difference is people now have more choice than they had back in the day, so they don't tolerate shit in the same way that they used to. That we used to.

   25. TNTrevor Noah6:04

       Mm-hmm.

   26. MGMalcolm Gladwell6:04

       Do you know what I mean?

   27. TNTrevor Noah6:05

       Yeah.

   28. MGMalcolm Gladwell6:05

       So I think

   29. TNTrevor Noah6:06

       Maybe it was like a little bit of arrogance or like w- or just confidence on the side of, like, old Disney. But I also think no one was telling them, "Oh, the data says-"

   30. MGMalcolm Gladwell6:15

       Yes
6. 7:47 – 9:19

   K-Pop Demon Hunters and Letting Art Surprise You

   1. TNTrevor Noah7:47

      on Netflix?

   2. MGMalcolm Gladwell7:47

      No, no, no. I've s- I've seen it. Yeah, yeah.

   3. TNTrevor Noah7:49

      Can I tell you?

   4. MGMalcolm Gladwell7:50

      Yeah.

   5. TNTrevor Noah7:50

      K-Pop Demon Hunters or Demon-

   6. MGMalcolm Gladwell7:52

      Yeah

   7. TNTrevor Noah7:52

      ... Demon, K- yeah, K-Pop Demon Hunters, I think. I, I started this movie. In the first like three minutes I was like, "Ah, this is not for me." And then 40 minutes later I was sitting there on the couch-

   8. EUEugene8:03

      Mm

   9. TNTrevor Noah8:04

      ... completely mesmerized, completely entertained.

   10. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:07

       Yeah.

   11. TNTrevor Noah8:07

       Just like bopping along. Just like, like every day that's just me, like, singing along. Just like, "You're my soda pop. You're my nana soda pop." I can't explain it.

   12. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:15

       Yeah.

   13. TNTrevor Noah8:16

       But it's what you're saying.

   14. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:17

       Yeah.

   15. TNTrevor Noah8:17

       I gave it a chance. I went with it. And now I got the reward. But if, if I, if I succumbed to that initial instinct-

   16. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:27

       Mm

   17. TNTrevor Noah8:27

       ... that three minutes, four minutes, I would've gone, "This is not for me."

   18. EUEugene8:30

       But that's very... Oh, sorry, Malcolm. That's very similar to what stand-up comedy really is. It's like raising children. You suspend disbelief.

   19. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:37

       Mm-hmm.

   20. EUEugene8:37

       And you just go with the flow and be able to be surprised at some point. You-

   21. TNTrevor Noah8:41

       Or you just bump into something.

   22. EUEugene8:43

       'Cause that, that's what happens when adults watch children's shows. They first start resisting.

   23. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:47

       Mm-hmm.

   24. EUEugene8:47

       Then they go, "Well, no dog is not talking."

   25. TNTrevor Noah8:49

       [laughs]

   26. EUEugene8:49

       And they go, "Wow, Bluey's actually, Bluey's a, Bluey's a boy? Bluey's a girl? Is, is, what's going on here?" Then you become more involved-

   27. MGMalcolm Gladwell8:57

       Yeah

   28. EUEugene8:57

       ... 'cause you've suspended disbelief. But it takes a long time. And that's what happens with comedy. The first five minutes you're trying to express yourself-

   29. TNTrevor Noah9:04

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

   30. EUEugene9:05

       ... and you're trying to go to people, "Forget about your job. Forget where you parked your car. Let me take you to another planet." Then you start to go-
7. 9:19 – 10:40

   Malcolm Gladwell Never Watched TV as a Kid

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:19

      any of this as a kid.

   2. TNTrevor Noah9:19

      But that's what I'm saying. You never watched TV as a child.

   3. EUEugene9:21

      [laughs] All these disclaimers.

   4. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:21

      No, no, no.

   5. EUEugene9:22

      All these disclaimers are like [laughs]

   6. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:23

      No, no, I, I honestly didn't watch TV.

   7. TNTrevor Noah9:24

      Malcolm Gladwell didn't watch television as a child.

   8. EUEugene9:27

      How?

   9. TNTrevor Noah9:27

      He lived in like a, like a-

   10. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:29

       I didn't watch-

   11. TNTrevor Noah9:29

       ... learned household

   12. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:30

       ... I didn't watch television until I got to col- college.

   13. EUEugene9:32

       At all?

   14. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:33

       Well, barely. I mean, I would go over to a friend's house every now and again and watch, like, a football game. But I, no, I knew nothing. I mean, I would fake it. Um, I-

   15. TNTrevor Noah9:42

       You'd fake that you've never watched TV?

   16. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:43

       No, no, no, at the time. So if you talked to me in high school-

   17. TNTrevor Noah9:45

       Yes, yes

   18. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:45

       ... you would've thought we had a television.

   19. TNTrevor Noah9:47

       [laughs]

   20. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:47

       But I was just reading about-

   21. EUEugene9:49

       [laughs] I like that

   22. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:49

       ... I was just reading about these shows and faking it.

   23. TNTrevor Noah9:52

       You faked, you faked that you had watched television [laughs] .

   24. EUEugene9:54

       Oh, man, this is so funny.

   25. TNTrevor Noah9:55

       "Did you see this week on The A-Team?" "Oh, The A-Team."

   26. MGMalcolm Gladwell9:59

       No, it's not that hard to, it wasn't that hard to do.

   27. TNTrevor Noah10:01

       [laughs]

   28. MGMalcolm Gladwell10:01

       And I would, I, for years, I was a huge basketball fan and football fan in high school, and I had, I had never seen a professional foot- a basketball game. And I had only seen, like, an incredibly small number of... But I could, to this day, I can talk about the 1970s era San Antonio Spurs. I never, my favorite player was The Iceman, George Gervin. I never saw George Gervin play. I would read about him in Sports Illustrated once a week.

   29. EUEugene10:30

       Hmm.

   30. MGMalcolm Gladwell10:30

       And I constructed George Gervin in my mind. And I would read these, I, to this day, I can quote, he d- he was, George Gervin was this, he was a kind of spectral figure.

8. 10:40 – 14:07

   George Gervin and Falling in Love With an Imaginary Athlete

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell10:40

      He was, again, I never saw him. But this, this is what I learned from reading about him. He was, um, he was the greatest scorer in the game in the mid-'70s, and he was, he was very, very, very thin. And he had all these kind of, he was not a great athlete, but he had all these kind of wily moves. Um, and he would give these incredibly Cone-like bizarre quotes to the media. And my favorite one was when he was explaining his ability to get to the basket. Uh, uh, "Whereas I be not too fast from here or there, otherwise my game be zigzagging, uh-huh."

   2. TNTrevor Noah11:12

      [laughs]

   3. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:13

      Which I, as a 12-year-old, I read that-

   4. TNTrevor Noah11:15

      So, so you never heard that voice?

   5. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:16

      No [laughs] .

   6. TNTrevor Noah11:16

      That was the voice you heard. But those were the words he said.

   7. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:19

      Yes. "Whereas I be not too fast from here to there, otherwise my, my game be zigzagging, uh-huh."

   8. TNTrevor Noah11:24

      Uh-huh.

   9. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:25

      And I remember-

   10. EUEugene11:26

       [laughs]

   11. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:26

       So I'm, I'm 12. I'm in, I'm in rural Ontario in Canada, in a little farm school with, like, a lot of Mennonites. I have no TV. I have no conception of what a professional basketball game is. And I read that quote, and I just, and I just think, "This guy sounds so fantastic." So I have a, in my, growing up, I have a big poster of George Gervin. This-

   12. TNTrevor Noah11:45

       Who you have never seen play.

   13. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:47

       Never seen, to this day have never seen him play. I mean, he's long retired, but every now and again I hear some mention of George Gervin.

   14. TNTrevor Noah11:53

       You have no yearning to, like, go find like a tape or go-

   15. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:56

       I don't want to ruin it.

   16. TNTrevor Noah11:56

       Yeah.

   17. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:56

       It was way better in my imagination.

   18. TNTrevor Noah11:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MGMalcolm Gladwell11:59

       It, you know, I, 'cause I, that, i- imagine if you're working off that quote. So- He's not fast from here to there, but his game be zigzagging

   20. TNTrevor Noah12:07

       He be zigzagging

   21. MGMalcolm Gladwell12:08

       You could imagine in your mind how he gets to the basket, right?

   22. TNTrevor Noah12:11

       Uh-huh

   23. MGMalcolm Gladwell12:11

       He's s- And he's like, he's literally... I have my pic- you know, the picture on my wall

   24. TNTrevor Noah12:15

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

   25. MGMalcolm Gladwell12:15

       He's 6'7", 6'8", and if he's 160 pounds, I'd be stunned. He's s- he's a r- he's rail thin, so he's like slipping his wa- slipping and sliding his way-

   26. TNTrevor Noah12:25

       Zigzagging

   27. MGMalcolm Gladwell12:25

       ... through a like, you know, doing some... I don't know, I never saw him, but like doing some weird thing with his hand. That's... So like you... My ex- I mean, I, and I became hooked on... To this day, I'm a massive basketball fan. But that was its origin, was, was I know all the stories of these players, I just don't know anything about-

   28. TNTrevor Noah12:42

       I mean, that's the most important thing, isn't it?

   29. MGMalcolm Gladwell12:43

       Yeah, it is the most important thing.

   30. TNTrevor Noah12:44

       No, really it is-
9. 14:07 – 18:26

   Trevor’s Unexpected Journey to Becoming a Liverpool Fan

   1. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:07

      Go.

   2. TNTrevor Noah14:07

      So, okay, I'll tell you how I became a, a fan. So it is a long story-

   3. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:13

      Yeah

   4. TNTrevor Noah14:13

      ... but it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll tell you a lot.

   5. EUEugene14:15

      We've got time.

   6. TNTrevor Noah14:15

      Okay. Thank you. I didn't grow up liking soccer. In fact, I, I, I quite hated it-

   7. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:20

      Yeah

   8. TNTrevor Noah14:20

      ... because it was the thing that interrupted my ability to play video games on a television.

   9. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:24

      Mm-hmm.

   10. EUEugene14:25

       Hmm.

   11. TNTrevor Noah14:25

       So whenever I'd wanna play TV games, as they were called when I was young-

   12. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:29

       Mm-hmm

   13. TNTrevor Noah14:29

       ... then my uncle and all these people would walk in and be like, "Ah, turn that off. We want to watch the game." And as a child, I used to think that the game was like three, four hours long as just like this never ends, right?

   14. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:39

       Yeah.

   15. TNTrevor Noah14:39

       So I didn't like it, didn't like it, didn't like, 'cause w- we had one TV, and that TV was taken away from me by football. Fast-forward many years, ironically, video games bring me back to the sport. So a series gets released called FIFA, and it's, you know, it's a soccer game. I play that. I, I start loving the game. Like you-

   16. MGMalcolm Gladwell14:58

       Mm-hmm

   17. TNTrevor Noah14:58

       ... I start falling in love with players who I've never watched-

   18. MGMalcolm Gladwell15:01

       Mm-hmm

   19. TNTrevor Noah15:01

       ... because I see them as digital recreations-

   20. EUEugene15:04

       Mm

   21. TNTrevor Noah15:04

       ... running across my screen. Who is this person? You know what I mean? Who... Like, I'm, Miroslav Klose, who is this German? I love him, the way he headers the ball, the way... And I get sucked into this world which is-

   22. MGMalcolm Gladwell15:15

       Wow

   23. TNTrevor Noah15:15

       ... a facsimile of the real world.

   24. MGMalcolm Gladwell15:18

       Mm-hmm.

   25. TNTrevor Noah15:18

       So when I talk to people who, like, love football, they know what I'm talking about.

   26. MGMalcolm Gladwell15:23

       Mm-hmm.

   27. TNTrevor Noah15:23

       And then at some point it would break down, 'cause they would go like, "Oh, where did you... " And I'd go like, "Oh, no, I don't watch the game. I just play the video game."

   28. EUEugene15:30

       Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

   29. TNTrevor Noah15:30

       Some people would, would, would be happy. O- others would feel like I'd betrayed them. They'd feel like I'd catfished them.

   30. EUEugene15:35

       Sounds familiar.
10. 18:26 – 21:13

    “You’ll Never Walk Alone” and the Power of Collective Singing

    1. TNTrevor Noah18:26

       No, man. What's his name, Ryan?

    2. EUEugene18:27

       Gerry and the Pacemakers.

    3. TNTrevor Noah18:28

       It is.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:28

       It is Gerry and the Pacemakers.

    5. TNTrevor Noah18:30

       Yeah.

    6. EUEugene18:30

       It is.

    7. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:30

       But they have a terrible, they have a tragedy up-

    8. TNTrevor Noah18:33

       Yes, yes

    9. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:34

       ... up-

    10. TNTrevor Noah18:34

        The Hillsborough disaster

    11. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:35

        ... and they adopt that song.

    12. TNTrevor Noah18:37

        Yeah. Oh.

    13. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:38

        And then they sing it every ti- do they sing it at every game?

    14. TNTrevor Noah18:40

        Yes.

    15. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:41

        And the whole crowd, in that wonderful way, the one thing about English football that, again, I know nothing about it, but I know that they love to sing.

    16. TNTrevor Noah18:46

        Yeah.

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:47

        That collective singing.

    18. TNTrevor Noah18:47

        Mm.

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:48

        And collective singing is one of the most emotionally powerful things human beings do. It's like-

    20. TNTrevor Noah18:54

        It really is

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:55

        ... choral, it's like choral music. It's like-

    22. TNTrevor Noah18:56

        Yes

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:56

        ... logically

    24. TNTrevor Noah18:57

        ... voices in unison

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:58

        ... yeah.

    26. TNTrevor Noah18:58

        Yeah.

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell18:58

        And they sing this song, and you, there's a v- it's a video online, and it's just like I'm in tears, like a minute in.

    28. TNTrevor Noah19:04

        You get it.

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell19:04

        And I have no connection with Liverpool.

    30. TNTrevor Noah19:06

        You get it, my friend. The first time I heard that song live-
11. 21:13 – 23:21

    Hillsborough, Media Narratives, and When the Crowd Gets Blamed

    1. TNTrevor Noah21:13

       And all of these things drew me to the club, because what I also loved about that story was that song, the club, everything, it was like one of the f- not first, but it was, it was one of the more significant stories where people realized that a, a tale could be told about a group of people that wasn't true, that could affect how other people see them. So at this disaster, like the press at the time, Ryan, you'll correct me at any point when I'm wrong here, but like it was the press at the time, they, they, they basically, the mainstream press-

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell21:44

       Mm-hmm

    3. TNTrevor Noah21:44

       ... blamed the fans and blamed the people who had died, and they were like, "You're the cause," and blah. And then it came out that it wasn't, and it wasn't their fault, and it was ... Uh, what, what did the police have to do with it again?

    4. EUEugene21:56

       Uh, the police lied and said the Liverpool fans caused the stampede.

    5. TNTrevor Noah22:00

       Yeah.

    6. EUEugene22:00

       So it was a stampede.

    7. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:00

       That's right.

    8. TNTrevor Noah22:00

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they said the fans caused it.

    9. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:02

       It was a badly designed-

    10. TNTrevor Noah22:03

        That was the main thing

    11. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:03

        ... stadium too, isn't it? There's a defect in the-

    12. TNTrevor Noah22:05

        It was everything com-

    13. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:06

        Yeah

    14. TNTrevor Noah22:06

        ... but the point is they blamed the fans. They didn't just go like-

    15. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:09

        Yeah

    16. TNTrevor Noah22:09

        ... "Hey, let's see what happened," and we don't... No. They blamed the fans.

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:12

        Yeah.

    18. TNTrevor Noah22:12

        And so part of it also became this, this rallying cry against, you know, an es-

    19. EUEugene22:18

        Injustice

    20. TNTrevor Noah22:18

        ... an establishment-

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:19

        Mm

    22. TNTrevor Noah22:19

        ... that was unjust.

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:21

        Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And in that moment, we're talking about, are we talking about the '70s? When does this happen? Wait, I can-

    24. TNTrevor Noah22:28

        Ryan

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:28

        ... Ry- I can appeal-

    26. TNTrevor Noah22:29

        Just shout Ryan anywhere-

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:30

        Ryan

    28. TNTrevor Noah22:30

        ... in the world.

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell22:31

        Ryan, when does this happen?

    30. TNTrevor Noah22:32

        If you have a Liverpool question, you shout Ryan, and he will answer it.
12. 23:21 – 25:17

    Accents as Identity: What the Way You Speak Reveals

    1. TNTrevor Noah23:21

       And you just, you have to find like a few keywords.

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell23:22

       I was sitting in a coffee shop this weekend, and there were two people from Manchester, young pe- young, and they, one was r- just moved here to work, and one was visiting her, and they were talking in that accent. It was just so fantastic.

    3. TNTrevor Noah23:34

       [laughs]

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell23:35

       De- describing New York through a Manchester accent is just like-

    5. TNTrevor Noah23:38

       [laughs]

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell23:38

       ... I was just, I just stopped working and just eavesdropped for like an hour and a half. It was d- um, just amazing. But anyway, yeah, no, you, there are s- very specific, you know, those, those, you can locate the, you know, the region with-

    7. TNTrevor Noah23:50

       Yeah, yeah

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell23:51

       ... yeah, you know.

    9. TNTrevor Noah23:51

       Really? Through the accent on its own?

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell23:54

        Oh, yeah. Other, you know, do, do you know the guy, there's a linguist at Columbia, John McWhorter, um, and he, he can t- he can tell ... I always call him up if I have any kind of, and play him tape of people talking, and he'll say, "Oh, yeah, yeah, that person's from, you know, they're, they're from Baltimore in the, and they grew up in the '70s, right?" Or, "They're from-

    11. TNTrevor Noah24:14

        Damn

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell24:14

        ... he has that for, and I'm, I've been trying to force him to write a Encourage him to write a book about America, a history of American accents-

    13. TNTrevor Noah24:21

        Mm

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell24:21

        ... where he describes the whole ... An audiobook where he walks you-

    15. TNTrevor Noah24:25

        Mm-hmm

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell24:25

        ... through how you can tell the difference between someone from southern Kansas and someone from, you know, Nebraska, or, you know, in the way that-

    17. TNTrevor Noah24:31

        Those stories are always the most fascinating.

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell24:32

        Yeah. And he, he, he's also, uh, he's this incredibly fascinating guy. He's a Black guy heavily into, um, Broadway theater, linguist, kind of a little bit of a provocateur. He, he's incapable of being uninteresting. He just, everything he says ... I, I, my favorite thing is I will go to, I'll go to see his office at Columbia, and I've gone a couple times, and I just play him tape. And I, I say, "What's going on here?" He go, "Well," and then he's off to the races, [laughs] right? I played him a tape of, of, um ... I might have told you this story before. I was doing this thing on, on Tom Bradley, the Black mayor of Los Angeles, and I was listening to all this tape of him. He was a, the mayor in the '70s and '80s. [clears throat] If you listen to him, he sounds like a white guy.

    19. TNTrevor Noah25:16

        Mm.

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell25:16

        I was

13. 25:17 – 27:01

    The Moment Black Public Figures Stopped “Sounding White”

    1. MGMalcolm Gladwell25:17

       like, "Well, that's weird," because if you were a Black mayor today, you wouldn't sound like a white guy.

    2. TNTrevor Noah25:21

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    3. MGMalcolm Gladwell25:21

       So I go to John and I say, "Well, what's going on here?" He's like, "Well, you know, there was a period in, in, in American life where if you were a Black person and you wanted to succeed, you had to sound like a white person." And that ends in ... And he tells me the moment that it shifts. Like, you can listen to contemp- There's a moment where in being a Black public figure no longer required you to sound white, but required-

    4. TNTrevor Noah25:42

       Oh

    5. MGMalcolm Gladwell25:42

       ... you to sound Black.

    6. TNTrevor Noah25:44

       Okay.

    7. MGMalcolm Gladwell25:44

       Whatever local, regional. Otherwise, you would ... You, you know, you went from being in ... Before that moment, you would be seen as illegitimate and, uh, you know, un- uneducated if you sounded, quote-unquote, Black.

    8. TNTrevor Noah25:58

       Yeah.

    9. MGMalcolm Gladwell25:59

       After that moment, you would be seen as inauthentic, as front, as pretending to be someone that you weren't.

    10. TNTrevor Noah26:04

        Mm. And what was the catalyst?

    11. MGMalcolm Gladwell26:06

        The catalyst, I forgot. It's sometime in the late '60s, early '70s. I've forgotten the specific ... But it has to do, as you can imagine, with the rise of kind of Black empower- Black nationalism-

    12. TNTrevor Noah26:18

        Yeah, yeah, yeah

    13. MGMalcolm Gladwell26:18

        ... Black empowerment. Um, uh, it's this, it's this, it's this incredibly crucial shift in the way white people view Black people and the way Black people view themselves-

    14. TNTrevor Noah26:28

        Yes

    15. MGMalcolm Gladwell26:28

        ... in this country, and it's marked linguistically. And so Tom Bradley was a vestige. He's born in the teens, so he's a vestige of the earlier ... And you listen to him, like, I mean, this guy is, like, Black Black. He's not light-skinned. He's a ... You know. And he was the most powerful Black politician in the country for years and years. And if, if you, if you never saw a picture of him, you would think he was white. It's, it's just so fascinating to me.

    16. TNTrevor Noah26:54

        I love, I love ... I mean, y- Eugene, how many languages do you speak?

    17. EUEugene26:59

        Well, as many as possible in South Africa,

14. 27:01 – 33:06

    Growing Up With 11 Languages in South Africa

    1. EUEugene27:01

       but I speak-

    2. TNTrevor Noah27:01

       No, no, no, but I mean seriously

    3. EUEugene27:02

       ... quite a lot. Yeah.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:03

       How many in South Africa?

    5. TNTrevor Noah27:03

       No, no, no, because he's, like, he's, like, one of my-

    6. EUEugene27:05

       Nine, I think

    7. TNTrevor Noah27:05

       ... favorite linguists.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:06

       Are you serious?

    9. EUEugene27:07

       Yeah, South African languages.

    10. TNTrevor Noah27:08

        Yeah.

    11. EUEugene27:09

        Yes.

    12. TNTrevor Noah27:09

        He's phenomenal with languages.

    13. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:10

        Wow. Wait, how many languages are spoken in South Africa as a whole?

    14. EUEugene27:14

        11 official, which the 11th one is a sign language. And the other two, the other one is Khoi.

    15. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:18

        And how closely related are they?

    16. EUEugene27:20

        Well, so there's Nguni, uh, which is Zulu, Xhosa-

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:24

        Uh

    18. EUEugene27:24

        ... siNdebele, they sound almost alike, and Swati. And then there's Sotho, and there's Northern Sotho and then Southern Sotho, which is Tswana and Sepedi. So they're all almost, uh, interlinked, but if you don't know how to tell the difference, you wouldn't be able to.

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:39

        Why, why is it you know so many of them? What, what is it about your life that led you to master nine of them?

    20. EUEugene27:46

        Well, I grew up in a, in a township-

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell27:49

        Uh

    22. EUEugene27:49

        ... like many South Africans at the time. And in our section, it was a Tsonga section. Uh, my grandfather worked in the railroads, so he came from Nelspruit, where they speak siSwati. So he came all the way to Pretoria, and then in Pretoria they put him in a section where Tsonga people live. So he had to learn XiTsonga.

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell28:06

        Mm.

    24. EUEugene28:06

        So as-

    25. TNTrevor Noah28:07

        Which isn't, like, mainstream.

    26. MGMalcolm Gladwell28:08

        Mm.

    27. EUEugene28:08

        Not very-

    28. TNTrevor Noah28:08

        Yeah

    29. EUEugene28:09

        ... mainstream. So there's two languages that are not mainstream, XiTsonga and Tshivenda, which is more north, and the other one is the other side.

    30. MGMalcolm Gladwell28:14

        Mm.
15. 33:06 – 35:16

    Malcolm on Disney Beauty Standards and the Blonde Princess Problem

    1. TNTrevor Noah33:06

       like, now.

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:07

       Uh...

    3. TNTrevor Noah33:10

       Just be honest, Malcolm.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:13

       Well, I'll tell you, I'm getting annoyed.

    5. EUEugene33:16

       [laughs]

    6. TNTrevor Noah33:16

       [laughs]

    7. EUEugene33:17

       Malcolm.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:17

       That's a good place to start.

    9. TNTrevor Noah33:18

       This guy, I just wanted the character-

    10. EUEugene33:20

        [laughs]

    11. TNTrevor Noah33:20

        ... and then he Gladwell'd us.

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:22

        No, no, no.

    13. TNTrevor Noah33:22

        I just wanted the character.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:23

        I'm getting there. I'm getting there.

    15. TNTrevor Noah33:24

        Yeah, okay.

    16. EUEugene33:24

        [laughs]

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:24

        I'm getting there. I'm... The, the whole blonde, blue-eyed Disney heroine thing, which I know is a cliche, is driving me crazy.

    18. TNTrevor Noah33:32

        Okay.

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:32

        It's really, really deeply annoying.

    20. TNTrevor Noah33:35

        But you watch your-

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:36

        Why does ev- why is it, why are they all the fairest damsel in the land? Like, enough already. Why can't... You know, the, in the original Cinderella, Cinderella's just, like, an ordinary girl. Like, she's just a kind of pl- you know, she's no different than anybody else, but she gets lucky. And then Disney comes along and insists that she has to be a bombshell. Why does she have to be Marilyn-

    22. EUEugene33:54

        Oh, yeah

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:55

        ... why does she have to be Marilyn Monroe?

    24. EUEugene33:57

        But that was not the original.

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell33:57

        In the original fairy tale, it's way better. In the origin- she's just an, an ordinary girl-

    26. EUEugene34:01

        Yes

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell34:02

        ... who has a fantastic thing happen to her. And so if you're a kid and you listen to Cinderella, you're like, "Oh, my goodness. Amazing things can happen to all of us."

    28. EUEugene34:10

        Yes.

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell34:10

        Disney comes along-

    30. TNTrevor Noah34:11

        Oh
16. 35:16 – 40:04

    Discovering Billy Joel’s Holocaust Family History

    1. TNTrevor Noah35:16

       yeah.

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:16

       Oh.

    3. EUEugene35:16

       Tell us more, Trevor.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:16

       I had no idea. I assumed he was Jewish.

    5. EUEugene35:19

       Why?

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:20

       With a last name... I mean, in Hollywood that era-

    7. EUEugene35:22

       The last name Disney? [laughs]

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:23

       You know, the-

    9. EUEugene35:24

       Did I not know the Disney's career? [laughs]

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:27

        Could I tell you, by the way-

    11. EUEugene35:29

        Is this about Poland? [laughs]

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:29

        By the way, here is the, here is the craziest, this is my, my personal experience of the, my current... So I love kn- I, I have to know where people are from.

    13. TNTrevor Noah35:39

        Okay.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:39

        I have to. First question I always ask everyone is literally, I need to know where you're from, I need to know what your background is, I need to know do you know what the languages you speak. I need to know that in order... It's just a, I don't know if it's a bad or a good habit, but it just is an important one. It's important for me to know, uh, did you grow up outside of Pretoria?

    15. EUEugene35:55

        I grew up in Pretoria.

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:56

        Oh, in Pretoria.

    17. EUEugene35:57

        Yes, yeah.

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:57

        That's important for me to know.

    19. EUEugene35:58

        My grandfather's the one who came into-

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell35:59

        And you're Johannesburg.

    21. TNTrevor Noah36:01

        Johannesburg.

    22. MGMalcolm Gladwell36:02

        Okay. Important for me to know.

    23. TNTrevor Noah36:03

        Mm-hmm.

    24. MGMalcolm Gladwell36:04

        Um, so I'm watching the Billy Joel documentary on HBO, and I don't know, I thought he was Italian.

    25. EUEugene36:12

        [laughs]

    26. MGMalcolm Gladwell36:12

        Is that crazy? He, I thought he was an Italian guy from Long Island. So I don't know if you, have you watched this documentary?

    27. EUEugene36:18

        No, I haven't.

    28. MGMalcolm Gladwell36:18

        It's fantastic. So, like, we're 20 minutes in, and it's like, "Of course we were Jewish." I'm like, "What?" And I suddenly wake up.

    29. EUEugene36:24

        [laughs]

    30. MGMalcolm Gladwell36:25

        Billy Joel is Jewish?
17. 40:04 – 41:59

    The “Gladwell Cut” – Fixing Flawed Documentaries

    1. TNTrevor Noah40:04

       wow.

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:04

       And it's like we o- they only, they give us 10 seconds of this.

    3. TNTrevor Noah40:07

       No way.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:07

       And it, they should have given us 45 minutes of this.

    5. TNTrevor Noah40:10

       The whole show. We need a Gladwell cut. That's what we need.

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:12

       We need to-

    7. TNTrevor Noah40:12

       We should actually just do this.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:13

       [laughs]

    9. TNTrevor Noah40:13

       You know what? I'm, I'm gonna pitch you a business here. We, you, you-

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:17

        We do-

    11. TNTrevor Noah40:17

        ... just go in-

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:18

        Yeah

    13. TNTrevor Noah40:18

        ... and we just Gladwell everything. So we Gladwell Disney movies. We Gladwell documentaries. We Glad- 'Cause clearly there's the Gladwell cuts.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:26

        The-

    15. TNTrevor Noah40:26

        And, and you basically go off on your own tangents.

    16. EUEugene40:28

        The one that you would have loved to see.

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:29

        I don't want to j-

    18. TNTrevor Noah40:30

        Yeah

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:30

        ... it's not just the Gladwell cut. I think the three of us. This, this should be a business for the three of us. I would, I think you, all of us should contribute to the, to the re-imagining of-

    20. TNTrevor Noah40:38

        Mm-hmm

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:38

        ... these flawed classics.

    22. TNTrevor Noah40:40

        What, the Disney ones?

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:41

        Yeah.

    24. TNTrevor Noah40:41

        Yeah, but, but here ... Okay, but y- have you watched the newer ones?

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:44

        Well, I've watched-

    26. TNTrevor Noah40:46

        Because they-

    27. EUEugene40:46

        Moana?

    28. TNTrevor Noah40:46

        No, because they have been re-imagined.

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell40:47

        We did-

    30. TNTrevor Noah40:48

        I didn't wanna spoil it for you because I know we did Moana.
18. 41:59 – 44:37

    Did Disney Teach Us That Good Always Wins?

    1. MGMalcolm Gladwell41:59

       Mm-hmm

    2. TNTrevor Noah41:59

       ... because it gave us a false idea of how things turn out.

    3. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:02

       Yeah.

    4. EUEugene42:03

       Happy endings?

    5. TNTrevor Noah42:04

       But not just happy endings.

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:05

       Mm-hmm.

    7. TNTrevor Noah42:05

       It's like the way things turn out. Like, uh, y- I'll talk to a lot of people who go, "Oh, the world, I can't believe this. I can't believe ..." They can't believe Trump won. They can't believe this is still happening. They can't ... Then I'm like, "But why can you not believe it?" And then for me at least, I go-

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:20

       Mm

    9. TNTrevor Noah42:20

       ... if you've grown up your whole life being told that the good guy always wins, that the damsel always gets saved, that the-

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:27

        Mm-hmm

    11. TNTrevor Noah42:27

        ... you know?

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:28

        Mm-hmm.

    13. TNTrevor Noah42:28

        Then when you go out into life, you're like, "Don't worry. You just wait. Trump, oh-ho."

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:32

        Yeah

    15. TNTrevor Noah42:32

        ... "You'll see what happens to him by the third act."

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:35

        Maleficent.

    17. TNTrevor Noah42:35

        [laughs]

    18. EUEugene42:35

        [laughs]

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:35

        [laughs]

    20. TNTrevor Noah42:36

        "You'll see what happens to him. It's only a ..." And then it's like it's not a matter of time.

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:40

        Yeah.

    22. EUEugene42:40

        Mm.

    23. TNTrevor Noah42:40

        That's not actually how the world works.

    24. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:42

        Yeah.

    25. TNTrevor Noah42:42

        Do, do you get what I'm saying?

    26. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:43

        Right.

    27. TNTrevor Noah42:43

        And I think those movies- ... are partially to blame for that. And I don't know if you would know this, maybe you know it deep, but, like, a lot of them were based on stories that didn't have those endings. You, you do know that, right?

    28. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:53

        They changed it.

    29. TNTrevor Noah42:53

        Yeah.

    30. MGMalcolm Gladwell42:53

        I know, they changed them.
19. 44:37 – 50:12

    The Jamaican Word “Jinnal” and Loving the Mischief Maker

    1. MGMalcolm Gladwell44:37

       Exactly that. [laughs]

    2. TNTrevor Noah44:38

       It's dumbo.

    3. MGMalcolm Gladwell44:39

       There, there should be an aggressive program to incorporate... Like, my mother uses this, there's a Jamaican word for, it's not quite a ra- it's, it's a lovable rascal, but it's more than that. It's jinnal.

    4. TNTrevor Noah44:51

       Jinnal?

    5. EUEugene44:51

       Oh.

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell44:52

       Jinnal.

    7. TNTrevor Noah44:52

       Okay.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell44:53

       And she would, uh, some of my fondest memories as a child are doing something that was clearly wrong and my mother calling me a jinnal, and I, it, what it meant was what you did was wrong, but I s- it's, it's actually-

    9. EUEugene45:05

       I still love you

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:05

        ... you. I l-

    11. TNTrevor Noah45:05

        Oh, I like that. Okay.

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:06

        No, no, it's more than I love you.

    13. TNTrevor Noah45:07

        Uh-uh.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:08

        It's not that I f- I forgive you and I love you.

    15. TNTrevor Noah45:09

        Mm.

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:09

        It's that I recognize that the core of that behavior-

    17. TNTrevor Noah45:13

        Mm

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:13

        ... is something I would like to keep alive and cherish.

    19. TNTrevor Noah45:15

        Oh, wow.

    20. EUEugene45:16

        Yeah.

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:16

        That's what it is.

    22. TNTrevor Noah45:17

        Ah.

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:18

        The jinnal is like, the j- the jinnal i- the jinnal is, uh, is, is, um, the jinnal will save us. If we're-

    24. EUEugene45:25

        Yes

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:25

        ... if we're all imperiled, and, like, the overlord is ma-

    26. EUEugene45:28

        You need the jinnal.

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:28

        The jinnal is the one who will...

    28. TNTrevor Noah45:30

        Yes.

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell45:30

        You know, it's the-

    30. TNTrevor Noah45:30

        Ah
20. 50:12 – 52:30

    Is Malcolm a Mischievous Journalist?

    1. TNTrevor Noah50:13

       Oh, the, the, um, that Jinnal thing, do, do you think that that is sort of what has informed how you write-

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:19

       Mm

    3. TNTrevor Noah50:19

       ... how you think, how you ... 'Cause I've always felt like you're a mischievous reporter. Like, you don't ... Let me tell you what, what I mean by this. Like, I've, I've met many reporters in my lifetime.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:29

       Mm.

    5. TNTrevor Noah50:29

       And, like, even, like, the old, old, old school ones, like, from the Brokaw days, you know? Like Tom Brokaw, like, and they, they have a, "Well, let me tell you something."

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:37

       Mm-hmm.

    7. TNTrevor Noah50:37

       You know, when you're searching for a fact, you have to know where a fact starts and where it ends, and you search for the story, and there's something about it that you have to ... And there's like a-

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:44

       Yeah. Yeah

    9. TNTrevor Noah50:44

       ... there's like a, "Whoa, okay."

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:45

        Mm.

    11. TNTrevor Noah50:45

        "I, I get this." And then there's journalists today. You are one of the most mischievous journalists I've ever met, and I think that's part of what I like about your thinking-

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:55

        Mm

    13. TNTrevor Noah50:55

        ... your writing, your vibe.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell50:56

        Mm-hmm.

    15. TNTrevor Noah50:57

        But is ... do you think you kept that because of what your mom said?

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell51:00

        Hey, well, it's ... I think, first of all, thank you. Um, but, uh, I think it's because my ... It doesn't feel mischievous to me, because my parents were the same way.

    17. TNTrevor Noah51:10

        Oh.

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell51:10

        They're both-

    19. TNTrevor Noah51:11

        Okay. Okay.

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell51:11

        My mother is still, who's ... she's turned, just turned 94. She's in a nursing home in Canada, and she writes for the nursing home newsletter, and-

    21. TNTrevor Noah51:19

        That's amazing

    22. MGMalcolm Gladwell51:20

        ... she sends them to me. And q- you know, they're, like, really interesting, thoughtful, but, like, half the time she's, like, you know, picking a fight with some-

    23. TNTrevor Noah51:30

        [laughs]

    24. MGMalcolm Gladwell51:31

        [laughs] Or, or doing some ... I mean, it's really she's just s- in a very, in a very nice, respectful way, she's causing trouble still. She's so ever, she's always, she's a troublemaker. She has always been a little bit of a ... You know, like, there's a, there's something in her, um ... Uh, and I think that's a ... There, there's something ... An immigrant is someone, you know, which, um, all of us at this table are immigrants. My mother was an immigrant.

    25. TNTrevor Noah51:54

        Yeah.

    26. MGMalcolm Gladwell51:54

        Three, three times over, um, or twice over. Um, I think an immigrant has that, has that impulse to-

    27. TNTrevor Noah52:00

        Mm

    28. MGMalcolm Gladwell52:00

        ... 'cause they, they, they're willing to shake up their life, right?

    29. TNTrevor Noah52:02

        Mm-hmm.

    30. MGMalcolm Gladwell52:03

        And so they ... Once you've made this ... The most i- the most ... Once you've made the most important of all decisions about shaking up your life, which is I am leaving family-
21. 52:30 – 55:51

    Immigrants, Risk, and Why Comics Break Rules

    1. MGMalcolm Gladwell52:30

       you can ... It's why, it's why com- why are comics so often from, you know, either, either immigrant groups or marginalized groups? Because they've, they've already done the big thing, right? Af- uh, it's, it's easy after that.

    2. TNTrevor Noah52:44

       I wonder if it's augmented by-

    3. MGMalcolm Gladwell52:46

       Hmm

    4. TNTrevor Noah52:46

       ... whether or not you chose your immigration. Because when you were saying that, I was, I was trying to think through, and I went, I actually feel like there's almost two camps if we were going to make it binary. I think there are some immigrants who are the opposite of that.

    5. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:01

       Mm-hmm.

    6. TNTrevor Noah53:02

       There are many immigrants who are like, "No, I do not shake. I do not ... There's no mischief. There's no ... My only goal is to fully become this new world, because I don't necessarily have another choice."

    7. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:14

       Yeah.

    8. TNTrevor Noah53:14

       You know what I mean?

    9. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:15

       Yeah.

    10. TNTrevor Noah53:16

        B- but then I wonder if, like, you're more likely to keep that mischief when your choice was the thing-

    11. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:20

        Yeah

    12. TNTrevor Noah53:20

        ... because if, if you shake up your world, you're mischievous. But if the world shakes up your, your life, then you not, you not, you don't necessarily have that same thing, I think. D- does that make sense?

    13. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:30

        Mm. It does. Yeah.

    14. TNTrevor Noah53:32

        Like, I think there's some people-

    15. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:32

        Yeah

    16. TNTrevor Noah53:32

        ... where they go like, "My parents came here because they wanted to da, da, da, da."

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:36

        Yeah.

    18. TNTrevor Noah53:37

        Those parents are generally more, like, shaking up the world.

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:39

        Mm.

    20. TNTrevor Noah53:39

        Then there's some people who go, "Yeah, man, my parents came here because they had to."

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:43

        Mm.

    22. TNTrevor Noah53:43

        "Something happened." And I find sometimes, not always-

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:46

        Mm-hmm

    24. TNTrevor Noah53:46

        ... but sometimes those people are like, "Listen, I, this, this is not my choice."

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:52

        Yeah.

    26. TNTrevor Noah53:52

        "And so I don't want to be shaken up again, so I'm not going to be in a position where I can be shaken up."

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell53:58

        Yeah, but there are ways that you always see how those groups that have migrated from somewhere that they loved and that they miss have always just rebelled a little bit-

    28. TNTrevor Noah54:07

        Mm-hmm

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell54:07

        ... in the way they cook food or the stealing of speaking their language inside their house and sometimes not losing their accents, 'cause my grandfather was big in not trying to lose his accent. He didn't want to.

    30. TNTrevor Noah54:17

        Like, actively trying. Mm-hmm.
22. 55:51 – 1:01:36

    The Theory of Grandparents Explaining Who We Are

    1. TNTrevor Noah55:51

       like-

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell55:51

       Wait, wait. I have something. This is, having, hearing you list, Eugene, talk reminds me of this thing I've been thinking about, which is that you've talked now on several occasions about your grandfather.

    3. EUEugene56:04

       Mm-hmm.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:04

       Right? So part, this is a two-part theory.

    5. EUEugene56:06

       Mm-hmm.

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:07

       Part one of the theory is all of us explain who we are b- with some reference to our families, right?

    7. EUEugene56:14

       Mm-hmm.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:14

       It's a common thing.

    9. EUEugene56:15

       Yeah.

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:15

        But I've noticed that when people do this, they always pick one. So you never hear someone say, "I..." Rarely.

    11. EUEugene56:24

        Mm.

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:24

        "I get this from my mom and this from my dad." What do you, what you get is when they're talking about somebody they say, "Oh, yeah, that comes from my father," and they talk father, father, father, father, father, father. And then you come back to them five years later and they're like, "Mom, mom, mom, mom, mom," and the dad's disappeared.

    13. EUEugene56:35

        Mm.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:35

        You can't do both at the same time.

    15. EUEugene56:37

        No.

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:37

        No, you can't.

    17. EUEugene56:38

        [laughs]

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:39

        So, and then-

    19. EUEugene56:39

        That's it

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:39

        ... part two of this theory, so I've thought of this for a while. And then, 'cause I was noticing it was so... I c- this is the, the theory of asymmetrical parental attribution. You can only do one parent at a time.

    21. TNTrevor Noah56:47

        The theory of asymmetrical-

    22. EUEugene56:48

        Asymmetrical parental attribution

    23. TNTrevor Noah56:48

        ... parental attribution.

    24. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:49

        You can only do one parent at a time.

    25. TNTrevor Noah56:51

        Dang.

    26. EUEugene56:51

        At a time.

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:51

        Okay. But then I decided, no, no, no, don't like that theory anymore. And then I decided-

    28. EUEugene56:57

        Wait, you de- just decided randomly?

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell56:58

        Yeah, I kicked the theory out.

    30. EUEugene56:59

        Let me let go. [laughs]
23. 1:01:36 – 1:30:57

    Regret, Late Fatherhood, and Raising Chill Kids

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:01:36

       Is there a part of you that wishes you had your kids sooner in life so that they could have had that?

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:01:40

       Oh, yeah, 100%.

    3. TNTrevor Noah1:01:40

       Yeah.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:01:40

       I mean, it's biggest, biggest mistake-

    5. TNTrevor Noah1:01:42

       Really?

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:01:42

       ... I made was not, was waiting so long. But on the other hand, I'm chiller than I would've been. I, I find parenting to be completely unstressful. I think it's because I'm older. I was, I find it hilarious. When they act up, I find it ... And I also let them do whatever they want, but I-

    7. TNTrevor Noah1:01:59

       So you, in a way, you are the grandparent.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:00

       I am the permissive grandparent. There's no question about that, yeah.

    9. TNTrevor Noah1:02:02

       That is amazing.

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:04

        And, you know, the, maybe that has consequences. Who knows? I won't be around for them. [laughs] I'm kidding. [laughs]

    11. TNTrevor Noah1:02:11

        [laughs]

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:13

        Wait, so, so-

    13. TNTrevor Noah1:02:14

        So you [laughs] about-

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:14

        So, so who is your favorite Kids character? Oh, I, I-

    15. TNTrevor Noah1:02:17

        I thought you were gonna say who's your favorite kid.

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:18

        I, yeah.

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:02:18

        I was like, "Oh, my God."

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:19

        No.

    19. TNTrevor Noah1:02:19

        What?

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:20

        No, I wouldn't do that.

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:02:20

        How dare you?

    22. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:21

        I wouldn't do that.

    23. TNTrevor Noah1:02:22

        Not Louie.

    24. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:22

        You can't know this soon. You'll know-

    25. TNTrevor Noah1:02:24

        But not-

    26. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:24

        ... but not this soon. [laughs]

    27. TNTrevor Noah1:02:25

        [laughs] Have you decided yet?

    28. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:26

        Do I have ... I c- I'm struggling with this one. I know-

    29. TNTrevor Noah1:02:30

        That's what I'm saying. Don't think. Just there's gotta be one that makes you happy inside, 'cause you've watched them. You've watched Peppa Pig.

    30. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:02:36

        Well, it, it's-
24. 1:30:57 – 1:42:16

    The Trans Athletes Panel That Exploded Years Later

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:30:57

       there.

    2. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:30:57

       Four years ago, five years ago, there was a pan- it was a sports conference. It happens every year.

    3. TNTrevor Noah1:31:03

       Yeah.

    4. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:31:03

       A sports analytics conference. They were gonna have a panel on trans participation in sports, and they said, "Do you wanna be the moderator of the panel?" Now, right there, any intelligent person would've said, "Of course not." There's zero upside to moderating a panel.

    5. TNTrevor Noah1:31:19

       This, this is a landmine.

    6. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:31:20

       It's a landmine.

    7. TNTrevor Noah1:31:21

       Yeah.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:31:21

       What does Malcolm say? "Yeah, sure." So I'm the moderator of the panel, and there's a guy named, a South African, Ross Tucker, is, is a sports scientist who believes very strongly that trans women should not participate in the female category. And there are two, Joanna Harper and another, people who are arguing the opposite side. I'm the moderator.

    9. TNTrevor Noah1:31:39

       Mm.

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:31:40

        And they tell me beforehand, "Do not get us in trouble, whatever you do. Just, like, get through this." I was like, "All right, I'll just, like, get through this." So I sit there, and the audience is, like- Split in half.

    11. TNTrevor Noah1:31:53

        Mm-hmm.

    12. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:31:53

        Half are o- So whenever one side says something, they go, "Rah!" The other side says something, they go, "Rah!" It's just a minefield. And I'm sitting there like, "What did I get myself into?" So we managed ... There's a moment in this conversation when Joanna Harper, one of the, one of the pros, pro participation people, says something which would've been ... You know, when you're interviewing someone and there's a m- there are moments when someone says something which is an opportunity to jump in and like-

    13. TNTrevor Noah1:32:18

        Mm-hmm

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:32:19

        ... it gets to the heart of the matter.

    15. TNTrevor Noah1:32:20

        Yeah, yeah, okay.

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:32:21

        She said something that got to the heart of the matter, and my instinct as a i- journalist was to say, "Oh, this is the moment. This is what people were ... This is ... " And I sat, and I was like, "Nah, I'm not gonna say it. It's, it's too complicated. I don't ... The crowd's nuts. Uh ... " I sit on my hands. Nothing happens. Things-

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:32:37

        Do you remember what she said?

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:32:38

        Yes. She said to Ross Tucker, "Ross, you have to let us win." And what she meant was she was conceding the point that, uh, trans women have a genetic advantage over biological women. Uh, trans women have a biological, have a genetic advantage over biological women. And but what she was saying was, "That's not the issue here."

    19. TNTrevor Noah1:32:59

        Mm-hmm.

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:33:00

        The issue is it's a broader symbolic thing for-

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:33:02

        Mm-hmm

    22. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:33:02

        ... trans rights.

    23. TNTrevor Noah1:33:03

        Okay, okay.

    24. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:33:04

        And it crystallized the whole argument, because it was why the argument can't be won.

    25. TNTrevor Noah1:33:09

        Mm-hmm.

    26. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:33:09

        Because they're both after different things. One side are people who are trying to protect the purity of women's sport, as they would say, and the other side is someone who's trying to make a human rights argument about a disadvantaged group. It's two arguments. They're never, ever gonna meet. And i-

    27. TNTrevor Noah1:33:23

        Yeah

    28. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:33:23

        ... in that moment, when she said that, it crystallized why this was an impossible problem to resolve. I, my inclination in that moment was to say, "Oh, I could've jumped on that, and we could've had, we could've r- we, we could've ex- I could've used this to explain the fact that this is an irresolvable argument."

    29. TNTrevor Noah1:33:41

        Mm.

    30. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:33:42

        I don't say anything. Fast-forward four years, Ross Tucker, who has, out of his place in Johannesburg, has this podcast which is listened to by a very, very small number of people. It's this super fa- It's my favorite podcast, super fascinating, nerdy pou- podcast about the science of sport. Lots of rugby talk, lots of, you know ... He did a whole episode once on shoes, which was amazing. So I'm on Ross's thing, and I say in minute f- we have, we spend 45 seconds reminiscing about this panel, and I say to Ross, "You know, I sh- that moment, I really should've ... I regret not ... That would've been an incredible moment to jump in and uh, uh, uh." Then we go on and talk about other things. And then I wake up, and I'm like, "I don't know what happened. D- d- I, they did five minutes on me on sh- on H- on the H- on Sean Hannity." I was like-
25. 1:42:16 – 1:52:12

    Two Train Tracks: Why Some Cultural Debates Can’t Be Resolved

    1. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:42:16

       that I'm, I'm asking you to give up something here.

    2. TNTrevor Noah1:42:18

       Mm.

    3. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:42:19

       And I will go, I will bend over backwards to make that sacrifice easier for you. There has to be that accommodation.

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:42:26

       Mm-hmm.

    5. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:42:26

       And, like I said, I don't, there's no, I, you know, I am, my position on this is I acknowledge both sides. It's really hard. I happen to be a huge track and field fan, so it's really hard for me to make the sacrifice of giving up the female category in that same way, but I also understand that that's a problematic position to hold, particularly for a group that is under, that is imperiled and, and so, you know, my, my answer is for the moment, 'cause I also acknowledge that my mind might change, right? I was writing about Caster Semenya 10 years ago, and I had a, a different position than I had now. Um-

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:43:01

       How did it change?

    7. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:43:02

       The science of ... People at that moment did not understand the degree to which, the que- this is a technical question. If I, if I, she was, she's not trans, she's DSD.

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:43:15

       Yeah.

    9. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:43:15

       So she was intersex. Um, the question was if I, if you suppress the, the testosterone of someone in that condition, do you equal the playing, do you level the playing field with biological women?

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:43:26

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    11. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:43:27

        There was a belief back then that you could level the playing field. Now the science seems to be that you, there's still a considerable, uh, uh, histor- kind of historical advantage.

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:43:38

        Yeah.

    13. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:43:39

        Mm-hmm. That, so it's more complicated, right? But all, that side is, it's super complicated. All you can say is, if you're gonna pick one side, you have to accommodate the other.

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:43:49

        I think it, you know, for me, where it lies is I often find that we're stuck in these situations and these conversations because we allow ourselves to suffer from a lack of imagination.

    15. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:02

        Mm-hmm.

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:44:04

        And the reason I say that is because we act like what is always was and will always be.

    17. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:08

        Yeah.

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:44:09

        Okay?

    19. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:09

        Yeah.

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:44:09

        So I look at people now arguing hard, uh, the women's sports and, and I go If I was to rewind time and go back decades and decades and decades, I would argue that those same people would be the ones going, "Women can't do sports. Women c-" And, and we've, we would see that.

    21. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:26

        Yeah.

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:44:26

        Do you know what I mean? There was a time when women were stopped from getting into sport. Like, people were like, "No, a woman can't box, a woman can't run, a woman can't..." No, no, no, no, no, no. What do you mean women's sports? Women's public bathrooms, that was the one that, like, blew my mind the most.

    23. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:38

        Mm-hmm.

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:44:38

        Was in America, people used to fight against women using a public toilet.

    25. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:42

        Hmm.

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:44:42

        They were like, "No, you go h- what are you doing? Who, that's for the men."

    27. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:46

        Mm-hmm.

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:44:46

        "You, you go home. What are you doing?"

    29. MGMalcolm Gladwell1:44:48

        Was that to stop them from not going too far?

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:44:51

        No, it was just, like, this idea of, like, it, it, it just didn't make sense-
26. 1:52:12 – 2:00:59

    Are We Raising Kids to Chase Fame Instead of Purpose?

    1. EUEugene1:52:12

       or commercialization coming in.

    2. TNTrevor Noah1:52:14

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EUEugene1:52:14

       Because I think when you add money, there's incentive now to accommodate and find creative ways-

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:52:19

       You're not wrong

    5. EUEugene1:52:19

       ... to extract money from sponsors to sponsor the Paralympics.

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:52:22

       You're not wrong.

    7. EUEugene1:52:23

       You have the same with-

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:52:24

       Mm

    9. EUEugene1:52:24

       ... let's add more backstroke, sidestroke, kick stroke, knee stroke and-

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:52:28

        Yeah, because they would get rid of it-

    11. EUEugene1:52:29

        ... in swimming

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:52:29

        ... if people stopped watching it and there was no money. And so they would be like, "All right."

    13. EUEugene1:52:32

        Absolutely.

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:52:33

        Yeah.

    15. EUEugene1:52:33

        And that's what people are finding a problem with now with the Olympics. People watch the Olympics and go, "What am I watching? What is this?"

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:52:38

        Yeah.

    17. EUEugene1:52:39

        Because also it doesn't equal out. So you see, if every discipline that exists in the Olympics, right, exists in the Paralympics, then I would be sold. If there was, if, if there was shooting and, and for, but with people with something that they normally wouldn't have if they were doing-

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:52:56

        Yeah, yeah, yeah

    19. EUEugene1:52:56

        ... I, I would be, I would be fully in. But when I feel like there's concessions being made and I'm like, I'm not watching the, the full thing. And that's the thing that I find with soccer fans is they watch male soccer. "Yeah."

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:53:08

        Yeah.

    21. EUEugene1:53:08

        But then female soccer is on, "It's not real soccer. It's not real." They don't watch fully. You guys are not fully participant in football.

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:53:15

        Yeah, but I think you're missing the point.

    23. EUEugene1:53:17

        In female football.

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:53:17

        No, but I think-

    25. EUEugene1:53:17

        Are you?

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:53:18

        No, but I think you're missing the point though.

    27. EUEugene1:53:19

        Mm-hmm.

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:53:19

        See, I think this is where I think you're missing the point.

    29. EUEugene1:53:21

        Right.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:53:22

        There are some people like Joseph O, our friend, we had him on the podcast.
27. 2:00:59 – 2:03:54

    Favorite Animated Characters and the Drama of Maleficent

    1. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:00:59

       simpler.

    2. TNTrevor Noah2:00:59

       Okay. So wait, wait, before-

    3. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:00

       Otherwise

    4. TNTrevor Noah2:01:00

       ... wait.

    5. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:00

       Otherwise.

    6. EUEugene2:01:01

       Otherwise. [laughs]

    7. TNTrevor Noah2:01:02

       So now, be- before we let you go.

    8. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:05

       Yes.

    9. TNTrevor Noah2:01:06

       Who is your favorite-

    10. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:07

        Oh, yeah. [laughs]

    11. EUEugene2:01:08

        Between the two of us

    12. TNTrevor Noah2:01:08

        ... animated character?

    13. EUEugene2:01:09

        Oh.

    14. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:10

        Oh. Uh, I can't answer. Why am I having such difficult-

    15. TNTrevor Noah2:01:14

        No, I'm just asking.

    16. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:14

        No, I told you. I s-

    17. TNTrevor Noah2:01:15

        Oh, yeah. Peppa, Peppa Pig's-

    18. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:16

        I told you it's Peppa Pig's grandfather.

    19. TNTrevor Noah2:01:17

        Peppa Pig's grandfather.

    20. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:18

        Who, who brought back ... Yes. Peppa Pig's grandfather is my r- r- reigning current, um, and it might be ... I'm also fond of Maleficent, who my daughter describes as magnificent, which is so great.

    21. TNTrevor Noah2:01:32

        Yeah.

    22. MGMalcolm Gladwell2:01:32

        You know, she's the witch in ... What is she the witch in? Which one?

    23. TNTrevor Noah2:01:36

        Uh.

    24. EUEugene2:01:37

        In-

    25. TNTrevor Noah2:01:37

        She's got the curly-

    26. EUEugene2:01:38

        Yeah, she's got the horns.

    27. TNTrevor Noah2:01:39

        Yeah.

    28. EUEugene2:01:39

        Yeah.

    29. TNTrevor Noah2:01:39

        What is ... Is-

    30. EUEugene2:01:40

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:03:56