Meet Eugene Khoza – One of My Favorite People | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

Eugene Khoza 0:00 [upbeat music] So what made you, uh, decide to go into podcasting?

Trevor Noah 0:07 Decide to go into it?

Eugene Khoza 0:09 Mm.

Trevor Noah 0:09 Is that your podcast-

Eugene Khoza 0:10 But Epstein did not-

Trevor Noah 0:10 Is that your podcast voice?

Eugene Khoza 0:11 No, Epstein ..." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:15 [laughs] I'm gonna have to edit around all of Eugene's vernac.

Eugene Khoza 0:19 Okay.

Trevor Noah 0:19 'Cause how do you do, how do you do subtitles on a podcast? Any vernac that you say, I'm gonna just throw in an American guy's voice there. So you'll be like, "But Epstein," and then instead of like, "... the guy ends," or something, then it'll be like, "Epstein, he did it." [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 0:35 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:37 And then I'll just tell-

Eugene Khoza 0:38 But what if it's different vernac?

Trevor Noah 0:38 I'm just gonna tell the audience, every time you hear this voice-

Eugene Khoza 0:41 [laughs] Oh, no

Trevor Noah 0:42 ... he, he spoke in another language.

Eugene Khoza 0:44 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:44 And I didn't wanna lose the authenticity of the conversation, so I didn't, I didn't edit around it at all.

Eugene Khoza 0:48 So there you go.

Trevor Noah 0:48 But I, I had-

Eugene Khoza 0:49 Ah, that's funny. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:50 Yeah, but I... 'Cause you have to do subtitles, but I want you to know that it's subtitles.

Eugene Khoza 0:54 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 0:54 Yeah, what I mean? You see me. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 0:56 [laughs] [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 1:00 This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. [upbeat music] Whenever you want water, just...

Eugene Khoza 1:20 Click on.

Trevor Noah 1:21 Just nat- do, do something natural.

Eugene Khoza 1:23 [groans]

Trevor Noah 1:24 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:26 [groans]

Trevor Noah 1:30 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:32 [groans]

Trevor Noah 1:32 Oh, would you like some water, Eugene? Oh, thanks you. Thank you.

Eugene Khoza 1:34 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:36 Thank you. Thank you.

Eugene Khoza 1:37 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:40 [groans] Oh, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:41 This is the awkward part, how, how you start a conversation.

Trevor Noah 1:44 It's the worst part of every conversation.

Eugene Khoza 1:44 Yeah, it's the worst part.

Trevor Noah 1:45 Why don't we start with a prayer?

Eugene Khoza 1:47 The guy-

Trevor Noah 1:47 This is, this is actually why our grandmothers started meetings with prayers.

Eugene Khoza 1:50 Oh, yeah, to cut the awkwardness.

Trevor Noah 1:51 Because now it's not... Yeah, 'cause it's to cut the awkwardness. 'Cause now you're gonna... You can't just come together and be like, "Your son has a drug problem, and your husband is cheating." If you start with a prayer, then it opens it up.

Eugene Khoza 1:59 But it was also a township power move because everyone here will know whose house this is.

Trevor Noah 2:04 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 2:04 'Cause you can't

Eugene Khoza 2:05 lead a prayer at-

Trevor Noah 2:06 You can't lead a prayer at somebody else's house.

Eugene Khoza 2:07 No.

Trevor Noah 2:08 When you pray, when you pray in a South African household, right?

Eugene Khoza 2:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:11 First of all, like I don't, I don't know if your grandmother did this. My grandmother used to give her address, and she used to give, like, where she's from and her name and everything.

Eugene Khoza 2:17 No, my grandma never did that.

Trevor Noah 2:18 No, really, my mo- my grandmother would do that.

Eugene Khoza 2:20 Yes, yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:20 She'd be like, "My name is Samazulin. Uh, And then she'd be like

Eugene Khoza 2:24 Location

Trevor Noah 2:25 ... "62, 626 Orlando East."

Eugene Khoza 2:26 Sense, sense what, uh, location.

Trevor Noah 2:27 Yeah. S- you, who you are, where you're from, whatever. And I remember I asked her once, I was like, "Why are you doing this?" And then she was like, "Why do I assume?"

Eugene Khoza 2:32 He knows where I am.

Trevor Noah 2:33 She's like, "Yeah." She said, "I..." She said, "Trevor, I, I must just assume that God is always listening to me." She's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah. That's not fair."

Eugene Khoza 2:41 Oh.

Trevor Noah 2:41 And if you think about it, most South African, like, prayer in general-

Eugene Khoza 2:44 Mm

Trevor Noah 2:44 ... I think is very, like, considerate of God. It's very much like we know that you're doing stuff, and we know that, like... You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 2:52 Yeah, but I need to... I, I think because of missionaries, we never as Black people thought that God is with us. God was brought to us.

Trevor Noah 2:59 Huh.

Eugene Khoza 2:59 So we always have to identify ourselves and also, uh, separate ourselves from the non-believers.

Trevor Noah 3:05 It's funny. Now that you say the missionary thing-

Eugene Khoza 3:06 Yeah

Trevor Noah 3:07 ... I actually think a lot of that was real.

Eugene Khoza 3:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:11 Is that, like... 'Cause think... I, I always think about this. I go, like, imagine being a Black person anywhere on the continent.

Eugene Khoza 3:18 Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:18 Right? These people come with religion, right? And then they tell you that the reason things are going bad in your life is because you don't have-

Eugene Khoza 3:28 Religion

Trevor Noah 3:28 ... this, this God in particular. 'Cause there was religion.

Eugene Khoza 3:30 Okay.

Trevor Noah 3:31 There were different religions all over the continent, all over South America, all over these places.

Eugene Khoza 3:35 Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:35 They would force, um, you know, the, the native people, they would force them to buy goods from them that nobody else wanted to buy-

Eugene Khoza 3:42 Mm

Trevor Noah 3:42 ... at predetermined prices. They would say they would do the work of, like, donkeys and mules and, and all of that stuff. But the main thing was they also came in with religion. So everywhere in the world I can see this, this, this vibe where people have come in with religion saying to you, "Hey, all these bad things that are happening to you are because you don't worship God."

Eugene Khoza 3:59 Mm.

Trevor Noah 4:00 And then it must have been weird because the natives are like, "You, you are the bad thing that's happening to us." They're like-

Eugene Khoza 4:05 Mm

Trevor Noah 4:05 ... "Yes, exactly."

Eugene Khoza 4:06 But-

Trevor Noah 4:06 If you had prayed..

Eugene Khoza 4:08 And you have penicillin. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 4:11 This wouldn't be happening to you.

Eugene Khoza 4:12 But I thought you didn't need penicillin 'cause you can pray. Hey. Shh.

Trevor Noah 4:15 [laughs] And this is-

Eugene Khoza 4:17 Trevor, go put on clothes.

Trevor Noah 4:18 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 4:19 It's not cancer time yet.

Trevor Noah 4:20 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 4:23 [laughs] But also churches in the township, that's where you would see family structure.

Trevor Noah 4:30 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 4:31 That's where you'd see people dressed up nicely because parents used to leave very early, so you never see them wearing nice clothes except for on a Sunday.

Trevor Noah 4:39 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 4:40 And then also cars as well. You'd see your principal or the l- the local doctor, they would park their cars. So church has always been aspirational. I don't, I don't think anything has changed from back in the day to now. And also some missionaries offered people to go to university. Nelson Mandela was that beneficiary. So a lot of people that went and played cricket and went to school because of churches. So a lot of people are very conflicted when it comes to religion and this-

Trevor Noah 5:02 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 5:02 ... and this topic because somehow they benefited from it. Now they can't separate themselves from the lies of it as well, and the oppression of it as well. But people in other countries who are not part of the system of going to that... 'Cause if you think of a church, such a small building for a big community, so it's already on its, um... By merit, it already is an exclusive club of people.

Trevor Noah 5:22 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 5:23 The believers. There's the believers that are believing in proxy. There's the believers that are dedicated in coming here and giving money and dressing up and showing up. It's a place for people to gather once a week to come and say what they need to say. So tina, the organization of it ended for us when church ended, but for people in power, it kept on continuing the whole week through. Because people who run the church run the church, they don't have other jobs. The believers have other jobs.

Trevor Noah 5:47 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 5:47 The pope's job is to run the church.

Trevor Noah 5:50 Is be the pope.

Eugene Khoza 5:50 Yes. The other ones, it's for them to go and collect money and come back and give it back to the pope.

Trevor Noah 5:54 I'm conflicted when it comes to church because I think-

Eugene Khoza 5:56 You love church?

Trevor Noah 5:58 I... Yeah, I love-

Eugene Khoza 5:58 I love churches. I don't love church.

Trevor Noah 6:00 No, no, no, I, but I... So, you know, when I, when I look at what we're experiencing in, in the world today-

Eugene Khoza 6:06 Mm

Trevor Noah 6:08 There's no denying that church and religion is responsible for a lot of it. I mean, you la- name, name it and label it, right?

Eugene Khoza 6:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 6:14 Pain, conflict, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, right?

Eugene Khoza 6:16 Birth control.

Trevor Noah 6:17 You name it. Whatever. But when I look at what people's lives have become, I can't help but wonder how much worse it's gonna get when church falls away. So go to any thriving European country.

Eugene Khoza 6:31 Mm.

Trevor Noah 6:32 Church is gone now. When I was in the Netherlands-

Eugene Khoza 6:34 Mm

Trevor Noah 6:34 ... all the churches that used to be churches are now-

Eugene Khoza 6:36 They're Airbnb's now.

Trevor Noah 6:37 Yeah, they've just turned into other things.

Eugene Khoza 6:39 Really?

Trevor Noah 6:39 Yeah. They've, they've, they've, they've... It's like a, there's a restaurant-

Eugene Khoza 6:42 Oh

Trevor Noah 6:42 ... or this is a k- something. It's just, it's not a church.

Eugene Khoza 6:44 So cathedrals are gone.

Trevor Noah 6:45 No, no, no. It's all, it's not a church. Churches are dying. In fact, funny enough, in the US, um, you know that story that, you know, when Trump was saying like, "Yeah, the Haitians, they're eating dogs, they're eating cats," blah, blah, blah-

Eugene Khoza 6:55 Yes, yes

Trevor Noah 6:55 ... that whole thing?

Eugene Khoza 6:56 Voodoo.

Trevor Noah 6:56 They, so they went to that part of Ohio and they interviewed people, and not only were they saying that the Haitian immigrants have revitalized the local economy, they s- they went to the church. And then the pastor said the church was about to die. He said the church was dead-

Eugene Khoza 7:10 Mm

Trevor Noah 7:10 ... and now because of the Haitians, the church is a thing again and it exists. And they come there and they use it, and there's a congregation, and now the church makes money, and they can be a community hub again. Like it's, so that's why I say I'm conflicted when it comes to church, 'cause I think it's easy for us to, to dismiss things-

Eugene Khoza 7:28 Mm

Trevor Noah 7:28 ... in general in life. Like, we always wanna say good, bad.

Eugene Khoza 7:30 Yes.

Trevor Noah 7:31 But to your point, I can't think of m- I can't think of a place that is responsible for more community and connection than a church. Because a church, you didn't need money to come to it. As we live in a world where more and more clubs are predetermined, you know, like race, class, all these things, religion was one of the few things where you could opt in.

Eugene Khoza 7:53 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:53 You could walk in off the street and say, "I wanna be part of your club," and the person would be like, "Yeah, you're part of the club." You know?

Eugene Khoza 7:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:59 Like, where do people connect for free with other humans?

Eugene Khoza 8:02 On the internet.

Trevor Noah 8:03 Yeah, but that's not connecting.

Eugene Khoza 8:04 100% it's connecting.

Trevor Noah 8:05 Bro, that's not connecting.

Eugene Khoza 8:06 You know how you mention... [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:08 Eugene, that's not connecting. You think the internet is connecting?

Eugene Khoza 8:11 Yes.

Trevor Noah 8:13 Okay, what level of connection?

Eugene Khoza 8:15 You know how many times I've spoken to you on WhatsApp? Which is 500 a time.

Trevor Noah 8:19 But imagine if we met on WhatsApp. It wouldn't be the same.

Eugene Khoza 8:22 Haven't we?

Trevor Noah 8:22 No, I'm saying if we met on WhatsApp.

Eugene Khoza 8:23 But we have a couple of times.

Trevor Noah 8:24 No, man, met. I'm saying if our initial-

Eugene Khoza 8:26 Met on WhatsApp

Trevor Noah 8:26 ... our initial introduction as human beings was on WhatsApp, it wouldn't be the same.

Eugene Khoza 8:29 This would be a video call right now if we had met on WhatsApp.

Trevor Noah 8:31 [laughs] This guy.

Eugene Khoza 8:33 [laughs] I think where religion and church is concerned, and I hear your point about it almost feels like as humans we need structure.

Trevor Noah 8:43 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 8:44 And I remember days when my parents were not at home. Well, my dad was always not at home. But when my mom was not at home-

Trevor Noah 8:51 Mm

Eugene Khoza 8:51 ... I would have the most amount of fun. When I was the youngest, I used to think I need this woman here. But as soon as she said, "There's food in the fridge, you know where the TV remote is, have a good time, and I'm gonna be gone for eight hours," I was like, "Can you leave sooner?" The overtime there.

Trevor Noah 9:05 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 9:07 Because in my world, that's when I realized I don't actually need someone to tell me what to do. I learned that very early. So some people need structure and some people don't.

Trevor Noah 9:16 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 9:16 But I think also people are deep and steeped in religion have abdicated their responsibility to be good people to someone else, to a higher power. So when they go to a pastor-

Trevor Noah 9:26 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 9:27 ... uh, when they go to, uh, their reverend and when they speak to God on their behalf, they feel like they don't have to be good people. They can always ask for forgiveness. But I feel like if people who go to church took that same mentality that they have for that hour and a half at church and actually spread it around in real life every day, day to day, the world would be a better place. 'Cause I think love should be preached more than religion. I don't think someone should tell us Jesus died on the cross for all of us to be here and then ends there.

Trevor Noah 9:53 Uh, y- uh, look, I don't think you're wrong.

Eugene Khoza 9:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 9:56 But stories help.

Eugene Khoza 9:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 9:59 Like, stories just help.

Eugene Khoza 10:00 Mm.

Trevor Noah 10:00 So if you say to somebody, "Sacrifice is the most

Trevor Noah 10:05 powerful thing you can do," someone's like-

Eugene Khoza 10:06 Mm

Trevor Noah 10:06 ... "Okay, what do you mean by that?" I think there's something really powerful in someone saying, "Hey, man, this stranger that you don't know died for you and your sins." There's a deep gratitude that comes with that.

Eugene Khoza 10:16 Yeah, but the Bible is, is a big book of suffering.

Trevor Noah 10:19 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 10:19 It's always someone-

Trevor Noah 10:20 But life is a big book of suffering

Eugene Khoza 10:21 ... you see? So it's all about someone did something and then found redemption. Someone did something and then found redemption.

Trevor Noah 10:26 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 10:27 There's never someone just having a good time.

Trevor Noah 10:28 There's lots of people having a good time in the Bible.

Eugene Khoza 10:30 Who? Lot's wife turned into salt. Job, who was-

Trevor Noah 10:32 Because she looked back

Eugene Khoza 10:33 ... Job, whose-

Trevor Noah 10:33 She looked back

Eugene Khoza 10:34 ... whose investments were tarnished and then he had to... Who? Show me one person in the Bible who had a good time.

Trevor Noah 10:39 Who was someone who had a good time?

Eugene Khoza 10:40 People were in the bellies of the whale. People were kicked out of Eden. Someone was asked to-

Trevor Noah 10:44 They were having a good time-

Eugene Khoza 10:45 ... sacrifice his son

Trevor Noah 10:45 ... before they were kicked out of Eden.

Eugene Khoza 10:46 Yeah, but somewhere-

Trevor Noah 10:46 They were having a great time

Eugene Khoza 10:47 ... someone had to go, "It's me," eh?

Trevor Noah 10:49 Yes, but okay, so what are you saying? You want the Bible to... Show me then a TV show where nobody suffers.

Eugene Khoza 10:54 And where... Yeah, but where [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:55 This is, this is entertainment.

Eugene Khoza 10:56 But where are the good times in the Bible?

Trevor Noah 10:58 No, there's lots of good times.

Eugene Khoza 10:59 Where?

Trevor Noah 11:00 There's lots of good times.

Eugene Khoza 11:01 You go, P.

Trevor Noah 11:01 There's lots of good times. King David had good times.

Eugene Khoza 11:04 Until what happened?

Trevor Noah 11:05 Uh, well, until he died.

Eugene Khoza 11:07 What did King David do?

Trevor Noah 11:09 Well, I mean, he killed Goliath. That was his journey of becoming David-

Eugene Khoza 11:12 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 11:12 ... the, the king.

Eugene Khoza 11:13 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 11:14 So-

Eugene Khoza 11:14 Then he was a wi- was a wise king.

Trevor Noah 11:15 Yes, he was a wise king.

Eugene Khoza 11:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 11:16 But then he also, he was the one who killed the guy's w- h- the woman's husband, right?

Eugene Khoza 11:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 11:22 So he was having a good time.

Eugene Khoza 11:23 Sent him to war and put him in the artillery.

Trevor Noah 11:24 Yes, but he was having a good time.

Eugene Khoza 11:25 Said, "Go there in the front."

Trevor Noah 11:26 But he was having a good time.

Eugene Khoza 11:27 But was the wife having a good time? W- did the husband have a good ti- did the f- extended family?

Trevor Noah 11:32 Okay, Eugene.

Eugene Khoza 11:32 The funeral cover.

Trevor Noah 11:34 So, okay, now let me ask you this.

Eugene Khoza 11:35 Was, I mean, it... Yeah

Trevor Noah 11:35 ... let me ask you this.

Eugene Khoza 11:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:35 Which TV show has people having a good time?

Eugene Khoza 11:38 The Apprentice. No, I'm joking.

Trevor Noah 11:40 No, but seriously, which TV show-

Eugene Khoza 11:41 No one's having a good time

Trevor Noah 11:42 ... I hear what you're saying.

Eugene Khoza 11:42 Yes.

Trevor Noah 11:42 But I mean, like, if you're telling stories, there is no story that is worth listening to if it's just like, "I went there. What I wanted to happen happened."

Eugene Khoza 11:51 Yes.

Trevor Noah 11:51 "And then I came back and everything is great." That's not a story.

Eugene Khoza 11:54 So then every sermon in church, obviously they're picking from this book and they decide maybe we are-

Trevor Noah 11:58 Yes

Eugene Khoza 11:58 ... gonna preach about Job.

Trevor Noah 11:59 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 12:00 There's gonna be how Job suffered and then how is you suffering right now and how you can end your own suffering-

Trevor Noah 12:03 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 12:04 ... by doing what? By praying it away.

Trevor Noah 12:07 Okay, so-

Eugene Khoza 12:07 'Cause Job did not pray away.

Trevor Noah 12:09 So I feel like-

Eugene Khoza 12:09 God said to him, "Who are you to question me?"

Trevor Noah 12:11 Yes. But I feel like here what's happening is-

Eugene Khoza 12:13 Then he was like, "Eh"

Trevor Noah 12:13 ... I feel like you're trying to get me now to defend religion.

Eugene Khoza 12:16 No, no, no, no, not at all.

Trevor Noah 12:17 But I, but I'm not.

Eugene Khoza 12:17 But I'm trying to get you to defend the characters-

Trevor Noah 12:19 No

Eugene Khoza 12:20 ... in the, in the, in the-

Trevor Noah 12:20 So what I'm-

Eugene Khoza 12:20 ... Great Book of Oz. I mean-

Trevor Noah 12:23 So what I'm... But it's fine. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter what the book is.

Eugene Khoza 12:26 Okay.

Trevor Noah 12:26 Even if we talk about The Wizard of Oz, right?

Eugene Khoza 12:28 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 12:28 I don't need... No, but really.

Eugene Khoza 12:30 We wanna talk about The Wizard of Oz.

Trevor Noah 12:31 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 12:32 For three hours. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 12:33 I don't need, I don't need Dorothy to be real.

Eugene Khoza 12:35 Yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 12:36 I don't need the Tin Man to be real.

Eugene Khoza 12:37 Right.

Trevor Noah 12:37 I don't need the Lion to be-

Eugene Khoza 12:38 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 12:39 ... but these are the concepts that stick with you.

Eugene Khoza 12:40 The Wicked Witch of the West.

Trevor Noah 12:41 Yeah. If, if someone wrote me a textbook about courage, about, like, decency, about, like, I... Then what? But you remember it when it's a story. You connect to it differently. You understand it. Dorothy goes on a journey. You get what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 12:54 Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:54 Like, all of these characters go on a journey, and so I think... I hear what you're saying, and I agree.

Eugene Khoza 12:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:58 In a perfect world, everyone would be able to do for themselves what they require another to do for them, but I don't think that's fundamentally what makes us human. I think humans need that. So that you as Eugene may not need somebody to tell you what to do-

Eugene Khoza 13:11 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:11 ... maybe in one or some aspects of your life.

Eugene Khoza 13:14 Yes, yes, yes. Not-

Trevor Noah 13:15 But then there-

Eugene Khoza 13:15 ... not in all.

Trevor Noah 13:16 Yeah, but then there'll be some places where you find there's a deep reward that comes from somebody guiding you, and that, that for me is the good of churches.

Eugene Khoza 13:25 There we go.

Trevor Noah 13:25 So, like, when a church-

Eugene Khoza 13:26 You see now. Yes

Trevor Noah 13:26 ... when a church is run well-

Eugene Khoza 13:27 Yes

Trevor Noah 13:27 ... when a church is not like-

Eugene Khoza 13:28 As a leader

Trevor Noah 13:28 ... yeah. When a church is not, like-

Eugene Khoza 13:30 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:30 ... the minister having a private jet and the congregation starving.

Eugene Khoza 13:33 Mm.

Trevor Noah 13:33 I'm saying when a church is run well-

Eugene Khoza 13:35 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:35 ... it really just is a community center where people come together-

Eugene Khoza 13:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:39 ... they share, like, an idea of problems-

Eugene Khoza 13:42 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:42 ... they talk about how there's something on the other side, but-

Eugene Khoza 13:45 Group counseling

Trevor Noah 13:45 ... but... Yeah. It's group counseling.

Eugene Khoza 13:47 Yeah. It's group counseling. I think-

Trevor Noah 13:48 So why are you being so difficult when you know what it is?

Eugene Khoza 13:50 I needed the podcast.

Trevor Noah 13:51 What Now?

Eugene Khoza 13:51 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 13:53 What Now? You see what you just did now. You just did the Bible to me.

Eugene Khoza 13:56 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 13:57 You could have just come in and made it good times-

Eugene Khoza 13:59 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 13:59 ... but you brought suffering. You brought strife. You brought pain.

Eugene Khoza 14:03 [laughs] Oh, man.

Trevor Noah 14:04 Why did you do that?

Eugene Khoza 14:05 [laughs] Okay. My laugh trumped my thirst.

Trevor Noah 14:12 Oh, man.

Eugene Khoza 14:12 I wanted to do them both at the same time. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:14 [laughs] Oh, man. Oh, my sunburn. Eish.

Eugene Khoza 14:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:23 Oh, wow.

Eugene Khoza 14:23 That's what you get.

Trevor Noah 14:24 Oh, man. Yo, I'm s- I'm burnt, eh?

Eugene Khoza 14:26 What were you doing?

Trevor Noah 14:27 I forgot that I could get this burnt.

Eugene Khoza 14:29 What were you doing?

Trevor Noah 14:29 I was playing, I was playing pickleball, and then-

Eugene Khoza 14:31 You need difference between pickleball and pad... 'Cause I've heard you speak... You and I went to go play paddleball for the first time, eh?

Trevor Noah 14:36 Yeah. Paddleball.

Eugene Khoza 14:37 And I whacked myself in the face with the thing.

Trevor Noah 14:38 That's the problem with paddleball, is people hit themselves. So okay.

Eugene Khoza 14:41 Oh, it's a thing, kunt?

Trevor Noah 14:41 So, yeah, it is.

Eugene Khoza 14:42 Why didn't you tell me this that day?

Trevor Noah 14:43 I didn't know until you started... You were the first person who let me know this was a ni- a, a trend.

Eugene Khoza 14:47 Okay.

Trevor Noah 14:48 You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 14:49 Okay.

Trevor Noah 14:49 So, um, paddleball-

Eugene Khoza 14:51 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 14:52 ... is squash mixed with tennis.

Eugene Khoza 14:54 Mm.

Trevor Noah 14:54 And then pickleball, I would say, is table tennis mixed with tennis.

Eugene Khoza 14:57 So is the racket smaller?

Trevor Noah 14:59 No, the racket is just different. It's like a flat paddle type thing. It's like, it's like a piece of polycarbonate or something. I don't know.

Eugene Khoza 15:05 It's like a big, it's like a big table tennis paddle.

Trevor Noah 15:08 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 15:08 Oh, so that's where the similarities come in.

Trevor Noah 15:10 Yeah, I would say that's where it comes in.

Eugene Khoza 15:11 And the ball. And the ball.

Trevor Noah 15:11 And the ball.

Eugene Khoza 15:11 And the ball.

Trevor Noah 15:12 Like, the way it, like, sounds, the way it moves.

Eugene Khoza 15:14 It sounds?

Trevor Noah 15:15 Yeah. 'Cause it does like a kwak, kwak, kwak, kwak, kwak, kwak.

Eugene Khoza 15:17 Oh, okay. So when, or when it hits the-

Trevor Noah 15:19 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 15:19 ... the racket

Trevor Noah 15:19 ... but the paddle has more of like a puh, puh, puh, puh, puh, puh, puh.

Eugene Khoza 15:23 Okay. Also you-

Trevor Noah 15:24 By the way, if you wanna buy my new album, Sounds of Racket Sports-

Eugene Khoza 15:28 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:28 ... you can follow... You can find the link in the description.

Eugene Khoza 15:30 So you, you play... [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:33 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 15:33 Were you playing pickleball?

Trevor Noah 15:34 So we were playing this... The only, the only time that people could come together with their schedules was at, like, 10:00, 11:00, and then the UV index was 10. I just learned about UV indexes-

Eugene Khoza 15:44 Oh, it's all-

Trevor Noah 15:44 ... by the way.

Eugene Khoza 15:45 Yes.

Trevor Noah 15:46 So the UV index was 10.

Eugene Khoza 15:47 Was 10.

Trevor Noah 15:48 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 15:48 Oh.

Trevor Noah 15:48 And then I just got, like, a burn around my, you know.

Eugene Khoza 15:53 So the people that you were playing with, they were only free at around 10:00 in the morning?

Trevor Noah 15:57 Yeah. It just happened to be. Normally we play, like, when the sun is setting.

Eugene Khoza 16:01 Do all of, of your friends that you play pickleball with have jobs?

Trevor Noah 16:04 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 16:05 What do they do? What, what's the-

Trevor Noah 16:06 You want everyone's job?

Eugene Khoza 16:07 The one who were there at pickleball.

Trevor Noah 16:09 There's a lot of people. You want everyone's jobs.

Eugene Khoza 16:11 How many guys?

Trevor Noah 16:12 Someone works in marketing. Another person works in, I don't know, the finance industry. Another person's unemployed. Another person works in, um, advertising.

Eugene Khoza 16:21 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 16:21 Uh, another person works in, uh, um, I don't know, trading or something. Another person works on radio. Another person is a lawyer. Another... How, how mu- how far must I go with this?

Eugene Khoza 16:32 How many guys? How many were you? 10 or so?

Trevor Noah 16:35 Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 16:36 So you all coordinated. That was a...

Trevor Noah 16:38 Yeah, it was-

Eugene Khoza 16:38 You must come and join. You would love it.

Trevor Noah 16:39 Ah, no.

Eugene Khoza 16:41 You'd love it. Do you find it weird when you are hanging around with... 'Cause you know how we grew up. It's not like after we finished metric, grade 12-

Trevor Noah 16:50 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 16:51 ... it's not like we went to university and studied a degree, and then we went into the job market and gained experience. When you look at the friends that you have, let's say the group that you were playing pickleball with, and you, like, when are you... Now you're a lawyer, advertising, whatever.

Trevor Noah 17:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 17:02 They've put in years into this career that they have, and they're now asking someone, "Can I not be around? But I can play at 10:00"

Trevor Noah 17:42 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 17:42 "So [laughs]

Trevor Noah 17:52 Okay. So on the one side-

Eugene Khoza 17:54 Yes

Trevor Noah 17:54 ... being a comedian or being in any type of career where there is no boss/job/-

Eugene Khoza 18:03 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 18:03 ... firing and hiring/ -

Eugene Khoza 18:04 Yes, yes

Trevor Noah 18:05 ... is weird because y- you're right, there's nothing that forces you to go somewhere, per se.

Eugene Khoza 18:10 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 18:10 And there's also nothing that guarantees you anything, per se.

Eugene Khoza 18:12 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 18:13 So there's no payday when you work in comedy. There's no, "Oh, it's that time of the month."

Eugene Khoza 18:16 That's a guarantee.

Trevor Noah 18:18 No, but what I mean is there's, the, the-

Eugene Khoza 18:19 Yeah

Trevor Noah 18:19 ... there is none and there is. Like, it's when is it coming?

Eugene Khoza 18:21 Yes.

Trevor Noah 18:21 When is it not coming?

Eugene Khoza 18:22 Yes.

Trevor Noah 18:22 How is it coming? How is it not?

Eugene Khoza 18:23 Yes.

Trevor Noah 18:23 Right? But- I don't know. If you think of you as being the business in a weird way, you do become more normal. I think when I meet, when I meet people who run their own businesses or their own little companies or their own whatever thing-

Eugene Khoza 18:35 Yeah

Trevor Noah 18:35 ... we feel the same. 'Cause you work as much as you want to work.

Eugene Khoza 18:39 Mm.

Trevor Noah 18:40 And then your work is generally directly tied to, you know, how much money you make generally.

Eugene Khoza 18:46 But just like me, you have friends that are in business and then you have friends that are employed.

Trevor Noah 18:52 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 18:53 Do you feel like you code switch when you're with the two? What's the difference between the two?

Trevor Noah 18:56 No. Actually, you know what?

Eugene Khoza 18:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 18:58 I think one of the, one of the things that freed me the most was the more I spent time with professionals, the more I realized how much-

Eugene Khoza 19:04 You mean the employed?

Trevor Noah 19:05 No, professionals. Like, you know, like, uh, I studied law and I studied accounting and I studied-

Eugene Khoza 19:09 Yeah

Trevor Noah 19:09 ... like those kinds of people, the more I realized that most people are just winging it in life.

Eugene Khoza 19:13 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:13 Genuinely.

Eugene Khoza 19:14 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:15 Genuinely, genuinely, genuinely.

Eugene Khoza 19:16 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:16 I think one of the worst things that ever happened to me in life is I've gotten to meet, like, some world leaders where I go like, "Oh boy, we're in trouble in the world."

Eugene Khoza 19:25 Mm.

Trevor Noah 19:25 'Cause we assume that most people's positions come with a certain aptitude and expertise-

Eugene Khoza 19:32 Mm

Trevor Noah 19:32 ... that- that's applicable to everything.

Eugene Khoza 19:34 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 19:35 But we do most people, right?

Eugene Khoza 19:36 Yes, absolutely. You're right.

Trevor Noah 19:37 Like, Elon Musk is a good example. Elon Musk is the richest man in the world, now, like, doubling. You know, what is he, like, 400 million or whatever now these days? Next, the next person is 200 million. So, like Elon-

Eugene Khoza 19:48 Billion

Trevor Noah 19:48 ... yeah, f- no, sorry, 400 billion.

Eugene Khoza 19:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 19:50 Did I say million?

Eugene Khoza 19:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 19:51 Ah, okay. So-

Eugene Khoza 19:52 See, this thinking small of yours.

Trevor Noah 19:53 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 19:55 And I warned you about these things when we were sitting.

Trevor Noah 19:57 [laughs] So Elon Musk, because of that-

Eugene Khoza 20:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 20:03 ... just, like, wanders into every space-

Eugene Khoza 20:06 Mm

Trevor Noah 20:07 ... and is given the full latitude where nobody questions anything. So you know what's funny? Coming back to the Bible, actually.

Eugene Khoza 20:13 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 20:13 One thing I appreciate about the Bible-

Eugene Khoza 20:15 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 20:15 ... is that it... if you read it properly, it does show you the complexity of- of the human being.

Eugene Khoza 20:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 20:21 Right? So in the Bible, there are good people who then go on to do terrible things-

Eugene Khoza 20:27 Mm

Trevor Noah 20:27 ... and live a, like a horrible life, you know, in the end. There- there are bad people who do have a good moment and- and... But you, you see humanity in its full complexity is what I find-

Eugene Khoza 20:38 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 20:38 ... if you, like, read the Bible.

Eugene Khoza 20:39 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 20:39 Right? So even the person that you go is a good guy.

Eugene Khoza 20:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 20:42 You go like, "Oh, this is a good person." Read the Bible and you're gonna see there's parts of the story where you're like, "They did what with their son?"

Eugene Khoza 20:47 Mm.

Trevor Noah 20:48 "They did what to their mom?"

Eugene Khoza 20:49 Mm.

Trevor Noah 20:49 "They did what to their neighbor? They did... " Then you're like, "Damn, I don't know if I can... I mean, I guess King David was good, but also, how could he do this?"

Eugene Khoza 20:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 20:55 Right? And I think some of that thinking is necessary for the world.

Eugene Khoza 21:00 So when you, when you're with your friends with normal jobs and then you're being... you're playing pickleball, and then they tell you, "I have to go pick up someone at 1:00," or when they say, "Hey, my boss is a... [groans] " Do you look away and-

Trevor Noah 21:14 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 21:17 Do you, do you... When-

Trevor Noah 21:18 Do you ever feel like-

Eugene Khoza 21:18 When they look at a car in a car park and go, "Yeah, that's nice," is there a part of you that joins into... Yeah. Do you, do you look at them and go, "Yeah, that's also nice." But because we're... Now, you're not saying it's nice because you can't afford it, or you can't buy it, or you can't have it.

Trevor Noah 21:34 No.

Eugene Khoza 21:34 You've probably driven it and enjoyed it. So I'm trying to figure out what... This is what I'm trying to figure out.

Trevor Noah 21:38 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 21:38 'Cause that's what I struggled with. I'm saying when people with normal job... Like, now when we're coming here-

Trevor Noah 21:44 What... By the way, what jobs have you had in your life?

Eugene Khoza 21:47 I worked at a car park.

Trevor Noah 21:49 Doing what at a car park?

Eugene Khoza 21:50 Um, there was, like, a... Before there were pay-as-you-go tickets, I introduced that system with my friends, actually, at the mall in Pretoria. So w- there used to be a booth at the end, at the exit and entrance of every car park.

Trevor Noah 22:00 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 22:01 You come in, there's a boom. You come out, there's a booth. So I used to take the ticket, then go-

Trevor Noah 22:04 Oh,

Trevor Noah 22:05 damn

Eugene Khoza 22:05 ... [imitates ticket printer] . Yeah.

Trevor Noah 22:06 Was this your first job?

Eugene Khoza 22:07 First, first job. Yeah, when I was 16. So that's what I did.

Trevor Noah 22:10 And so-

Eugene Khoza 22:10 On weekends-

Trevor Noah 22:10 So the-

Eugene Khoza 22:10 ... and school holidays

Trevor Noah 22:11 ... they give you the ticket, they pay and then you calculate the-

Eugene Khoza 22:13 And then I calculate. [imitates keyboard]

Trevor Noah 22:13 Yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 22:14 Yeah, and then the machine says 16 rand.

Trevor Noah 22:16 How did you feel, how did you feel when you saw your first automatic boom machine thing?

Eugene Khoza 22:21 Uh, the pay, the pay-on-foot tickets system?

Trevor Noah 22:23 No, no. Yeah, when people could do it without you.

Eugene Khoza 22:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 22:25 How did you feel?

Eugene Khoza 22:25 I was happy.

Trevor Noah 22:26 Really?

Eugene Khoza 22:26 Yeah, because I was in matric at that time. Then I was like, "I don't need you. I'm out," and I left.

Trevor Noah 22:33 Oh.

Eugene Khoza 22:33 But I was happy.

Trevor Noah 22:34 So there wasn't a part of you that was like, "Oh"-

Eugene Khoza 22:35 No, no. No

Trevor Noah 22:35 ... "they took our jobs."

Eugene Khoza 22:36 No, no. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:39 No.

Eugene Khoza 22:39 I was hap... But one thing I always... The one, the w- the one thing that changed my life, 'cause I worked... I- I started at the car park at the mall, and then when I reached matric, uh, I worked inside the mall.

Trevor Noah 22:50 What did you do in the mall?

Eugene Khoza 22:51 I worked at a CD store when those things still existed.

Trevor Noah 22:53 CD, like music?

Eugene Khoza 22:54 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 22:54 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 22:55 And then-

Trevor Noah 22:55 All your jobs are defunct.

Eugene Khoza 22:57 Yeah, and I also had a-

Trevor Noah 22:57 You're basically like the Grim Reaper of jobs.

Eugene Khoza 22:59 Yes, when I come in, the industry ends.

Trevor Noah 23:00 When you see Eugene coming to the job-

Eugene Khoza 23:02 Yes

Trevor Noah 23:02 ... you must know it's over.

Eugene Khoza 23:03 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:04 I'm even warning you in the future. If you see Eugene show up and be like, "Hey, guys, uh, I'm now gonna be working here"-

Eugene Khoza 23:10 I'm notified

Trevor Noah 23:10 ... like, "Ah, this industry's on its way out."

Eugene Khoza 23:12 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:12 'Cause you just went for, like, defunct job after defunct job.

Eugene Khoza 23:16 Yes. And another defunct job-

Trevor Noah 23:18 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 23:18 ... I worked at CNA, and my job was to man the magazine counter.

Trevor Noah 23:22 Oh, man.

Eugene Khoza 23:22 And then my job was to go there and tell people who are on dates while they're waiting for the movies to start to stop paging through the magazine. I would go, " [clears throat] "

Trevor Noah 23:32 Oh, you were one of those guys.

Eugene Khoza 23:33 And then they were like, "Nah." And then one day I caught this mug-

Trevor Noah 23:35 You were one of those guys who was like-

Eugene Khoza 23:36 ... who was like-

Trevor Noah 23:36 ... "You're not allowed to read"

Eugene Khoza 23:37 ... yes. And then he was like... I was like, "No, but you're not allowed to read the magazine." He was like, "But if what if I go to another magazine?" I was like, "Technically." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:47 You caught me.

Eugene Khoza 23:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:50 Elon. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 23:52 So that's what I did as well. Um, so but the one day that changed my life is whe- I met, I met the guy that owned Brooklyn Mall, a guy called Mr. Watson.

Trevor Noah 24:02 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 24:02 He used to come there once a week. He drove a Jaguar. His driver drove a Jaguar, and he would sit at the back, and his wife would be in a mink coat even in the summer. And then one day when they were entering the new system of pay on foot, and then he happened to be the guy next in line, and then I helped his driver. And then I saw him, and I remembered, "I've seen this guy so many times." Then he asked me what my name was, and I told him. He asked me how old I am. I said, "Yeah, I'm Eugene." He was like, "So you do this every day?" I'm like, "No, no, not every day. Only on holidays and, and weekends." And I said, "What do you do?" The audacity. My manager was behind me going, " [gasps] ." And then he said, "No, I business, but I live and I do things and I blah, blah, blah." Then I said, "Yeah, I wanna do what you do. I wanna come to the mall during the week for no reason." Then he said, "If you want to, you can do it."

Trevor Noah 24:49 I hate it when rich people say that.

Eugene Khoza 24:50 Yeah. And then I only found out later in life when I worked inside the mall-

Trevor Noah 24:53 Like, "You can't do that"

Eugene Khoza 24:53 ... that that was him. 'Cause now he was inside the mall. Remember I was in the parking lot-

Trevor Noah 24:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 24:56 ... when I first met him.

Trevor Noah 24:57 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 24:57 Now I got a job inside the mall, then I met him, and everyone was just... The shop owners were always happy to see him. The restaurateurs were always happy to see him. Then this is the guy that owned the mall. And I think that was my first real realization of what being loved and being powerful, that combination, what it meant. He was a very powerful man.

Trevor Noah 25:13 But he was loved.

Eugene Khoza 25:14 But people w- people loved him. And I think there was a side of him that also-

Trevor Noah 25:17 A loved landlord

Eugene Khoza 25:18 ... yeah, that he also loved them, because he didn't have to be there. And that, that was a principle I took throughout my life. [smacks lips] And I've spoken to you about this before. I said, "I only do things that I love. I only hang out with people that I like. I don't go out to force a, a lesson of pain on myself and try to test how far my patience can go with something I don't enjoy."

Trevor Noah 25:37 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 25:37 So I'm only at places where I feel I'm wanted. I'm also at places where I feel like I want to be. And that was only from that interaction twice with this man who I've never met again.

Trevor Noah 25:48 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 25:49 So I, I-

Trevor Noah 25:49 I like that you... And, and not in, like, a dismissive way.

Eugene Khoza 25:52 No, no, absolutely.

Trevor Noah 25:53 But I, I love that you formed such a positive idea around this human being, knowing the little that you did.

Eugene Khoza 25:59 Yes.

Trevor Noah 26:00 Do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 26:00 Yes. That's what I wanted to take away from him.

Trevor Noah 26:03 No, I, but I'm saying, like-

Eugene Khoza 26:04 Mm

Trevor Noah 26:04 ... that's a beautiful thing.

Eugene Khoza 26:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:06 'Cause this person you met, you met them twice?

Eugene Khoza 26:08 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 26:10 And that's what-

Eugene Khoza 26:10 Twice

Trevor Noah 26:10 ... you took from them.

Eugene Khoza 26:11 That's all I took from them. 'Cause I realized how much power there was. 'Cause also I started seeing it around, 'cause obviously if you work in a CD store, people come there to come buy music, but also to buy time, so they hang around.

Trevor Noah 26:22 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 26:22 So when I would see people at the mall at 11:00 in the morning, I would like, "What do you do that allows you to be at the mall at 11:00? I want to do that." So it became my quest to come to interview people while they're, they're buying their CDs or listening to-

Trevor Noah 26:33 What was it about the mall that you were so...

Eugene Khoza 26:36 It's abundance.

Trevor Noah 26:37 M- okay.

Eugene Khoza 26:38 Everything is there. You don't go to the mall to window shop. People go to the mall to look at things that they like, and they can just buy them, or they just go to hang out with people that they like. A mall was a gathering place. It was obviously, obviously 20 years ago.

Trevor Noah 26:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 26:53 So a mall is a-

Trevor Noah 26:53 But you said that malls are dying now.

Eugene Khoza 26:56 Um, to an extent, yeah. I, I go to malls. I like going to malls. I like working at malls. I go to Mall of Africa all the time. When I go to a new place, I go to a mall. Just in America, I haven't gotten a chance to go to, 'cause I like Central Park more, [laughs] so I walk around it and go to churches. But I like malls. I, I like the feeling of abundance. I think that was my first glimpse of it. I... When I was working at the mall, I knew at the end of the month what I wanted to do with my money. And that was-

Trevor Noah 27:18 Like go to the mall

Eugene Khoza 27:18 ... yeah. I wa- No, no. Co- uh, want... Co- things I would... I'd see.

Trevor Noah 27:21 At the mall?

Eugene Khoza 27:22 Yeah. I knew what I, what sneakers I wanted. I knew what headphones I was gonna buy with my money. I, I always enjoyed the feeling of abundance. But also it taught me a, a certain discipline in life that just because it's there doesn't mean you must take it.

Trevor Noah 27:33 Hmm.

Eugene Khoza 27:34 Sometimes you just have to wait. Sometimes you can just walk past it. Sometimes the idea of being around it is even better than owning it. I could go into a, a sound system store and just listen and just have a good time. I didn't have to take it home.

Trevor Noah 27:44 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 27:44 So I-

Trevor Noah 27:44 And then they would come and say, "Sir, please, please, you can't be listening."

Eugene Khoza 27:47 You can for long.

Trevor Noah 27:48 "Please. Please."

Eugene Khoza 27:49 So I, I-

Trevor Noah 27:49 Do you remember me? I was reading magazines in your store.

Eugene Khoza 27:51 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:52 And remember what you told me.

Eugene Khoza 27:54 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:54 Do you think that came from how you grew up? Like, what, what was it about, about abundance that, that connected with you in that way? 'Cause you didn't grow up with abundance.

Eugene Khoza 28:01 As cheesy as that sounds, it was my, my mom. Y- my mom used to... Sh- she was a nurse.

Trevor Noah 28:07 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 28:07 She's retired now. She had four kids. I was the third one. What she would do every month end was she would come to school and pick us up, pick one up. So we had a roster. So every month end, one child gets a turn to go to town with her.

Trevor Noah 28:22 Oh, damn.

Eugene Khoza 28:23 So she... But she made a point to come before break at school, go to the principal's office-

Trevor Noah 28:28 Did your mom have a car?

Eugene Khoza 28:29 No.

Trevor Noah 28:29 Okay. Then no-

Eugene Khoza 28:30 Yeah

Trevor Noah 28:30 ... 'cause I was wondering why one.

Eugene Khoza 28:31 No, no.

Trevor Noah 28:31 I was like, "Damn, this is a crazy system."

Eugene Khoza 28:32 No, they pay people-

Trevor Noah 28:33 Okay. No, so you're getting in a taxi.

Eugene Khoza 28:34 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:34 That's why she has to pick one.

Eugene Khoza 28:35 They should... No, no, no. Also, it's what's gonna happen in town when we get there.

Trevor Noah 28:40 What's gonna happen?

Eugene Khoza 28:41 You'll see.

Trevor Noah 28:42 Okay. Sorry.

Eugene Khoza 28:42 And then she would come to school and then talk to the principal, and then I'd be like, "There she is." And then she would come to my class.

Trevor Noah 28:47 Would you know who she's coming to fetch?

Eugene Khoza 28:48 Of course. It's me.

Trevor Noah 28:49 No, but you said there's a roster and you rotate.

Eugene Khoza 28:51 No, no. We're not at the same school at the same time.

Trevor Noah 28:52 Oh, okay, okay. Got it, got it, got it.

Eugene Khoza 28:54 So she'd come and then-

Trevor Noah 28:54 I thought your mom, like, was doing, like, a lottery system.

Eugene Khoza 28:56 No, no, no. We all-

Trevor Noah 28:57 You're all at the same school-

Eugene Khoza 28:58 Then, then you just see-

Trevor Noah 28:58 ... and then your mom would walk in

Eugene Khoza 28:59 ... you just see her head [mimics hair swishing] past those big windows at school, and you're like... And then they'll be like, "Eugene, your mom is here." Then I'd be like, "Oh, man, my mom." Take my backpack and we're out, and then we would get... And then we'd high-five each other in the passage there. Then we'd get in a taxi, and then off we go to town. Then when we go to town, the first thing she did was we go to the park. Then we'd sit at the park, and then she'd say, "Think of anything that you want, that you want us to buy today. Think of anything that you want." Then I'd be like, "Okay, bye. Yes, dear. Yeah, I want that one bag. Ninja Title. Yeah, I want that. Okay, okay, I'm done." She's like, "You're done? Sharp." Then we would go and buy all the things that I wanted. And then I realized how many things I passed going to the things that I wanted that were insignificant at that point. Then you buy all the things you want, and then now we're doing groceries. Now we get to the nuts and bolts of it. Now she buys groceries for the whole house. And then what she used to do for all of us was she would buy a slab of chocolate for all of us and a tub of one liter ice cream for all of us. That was ours to do as we wanted. So that's what she did. She showed me abundance. And my mom had a concept, when it's finished, it's finished. I've never struggled with loss, with loss of anything, especially finances. I've... You've known... We've, we've done things with cars and had fun-

Trevor Noah 30:14 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 30:14 ... and made money and lost money and do whatever. I've never struggled with that concept at all because she taught me when it's there, it's there. When it's not, it's not. But as long as you're here-

Trevor Noah 30:21 Wow

Eugene Khoza 30:21 ... you can always make it again. But just like you passed the things that you didn't want at the store to go to things that you wanted, those things will always be there. So I've, I've learned abundance from her, and what she would do is she would take the rest of the month's money and give it to you And then say when w- when someone needs something, they're gonna come fetch it from you. So you understand that it's there, but it's there to be used. So the value of money for us was it buys bread. It's, it's a taxi ride for someone. It's a school thing that popped up out of nowhere. It's this, it's that. Someone coming to borrow money from the house, it's that. So the, the value of money was never to look at it as a thing that exists to make you feel good. It was there to help facilitate things that just might come up in life. Some things are small, you end up with more money. Some things are big, you end up with less money. But it was there. So she would go, "If it was there when it was needed, it did its job." So I look at life like that, and I'm glad for those lessons in life because I've had a chance to look around. And that's why I was asking you about, um, friends with employment. I was not making fun of them at all, 'cause I have friends like that as well, who would say, "I have a day off." A friend of mine on our way here called me, but I didn't answer his phone, but he sent me a text before saying, "Do you wanna go ride in the mountain tomorrow, because I'm day off?" But I'm like, "My life doesn't work like that. I can go ride any day." But, uh, if you have to think of it like that, then it means your world is centered like that. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 31:41 So I, I think, I think both of them come with pros and cons.

Eugene Khoza 31:44 No, absolutely.

Trevor Noah 31:44 Right? So as much as you can say your life, you don't require a day off to do something-

Eugene Khoza 31:52 Yes

Trevor Noah 31:52 ... you, you... But the, the gift and the curse of it is that, like, freedom is hard work. I've experienced this, let's say on like on, on a really flippant level.

Eugene Khoza 32:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:03 If I go on a vacation-

Eugene Khoza 32:04 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:05 ... and everything is planned-

Eugene Khoza 32:06 I have plans B

Trevor Noah 32:07 ... I have a great time.

Eugene Khoza 32:08 Mm. I know-

Trevor Noah 32:09 I know where I'm supposed to go. I know at what time I have to be there. And I go to the museum-

Eugene Khoza 32:12 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:12 ... then I go do this, then I go... I'm having a great time.

Eugene Khoza 32:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:15 I'm like, "Oh, wow." Because I'm not thinking, I'm not... And when you're not thinking, you don't make the wrong choice. When you don't make the wrong choice, you don't have regret. You don't feel... There, there's none of that. You don't go, "Did I do it or did I not do it?"

Eugene Khoza 32:24 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 32:24 Right?

Eugene Khoza 32:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 32:25 And I think there's a little bit of that when you are employed-

Eugene Khoza 32:29 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:29 ... versus if you are, like, doing your own thing.

Eugene Khoza 32:31 Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:32 Is that when you are employed-

Eugene Khoza 32:33 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:33 ... there's a certain level of someone's telling you what you have to do-

Eugene Khoza 32:37 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:37 ... on what day, by what time.

Eugene Khoza 32:39 Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:40 And that's liberating in many ways. It's like having a personal trainer. It's liberating. Have you ever walked into a gym and just looked at the weights?

Eugene Khoza 32:46 I don't go to gym.

Trevor Noah 32:48 You've, but you've never walked into a gym?

Eugene Khoza 32:49 Gym is kindergarten for people with regrets.

Trevor Noah 32:54 Is that a no or a yes?

Eugene Khoza 32:56 Yes.

Trevor Noah 32:57 You've walked into a gym.

Eugene Khoza 32:58 Mm. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:04 [laughs] Oh, man. So I g- I get what you're saying. Um, well, I did, I did, but I didn't know that thing about... I didn't know that about your mom.

Eugene Khoza 33:13 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 33:13 Like, I, I knew that, I knew that vibe with your mom. It's funny, I'm trying to think of, like-

Eugene Khoza 33:19 I-

Trevor Noah 33:20 ... how I process loss.

Eugene Khoza 33:22 You think-

Trevor Noah 33:22 Wait, so, okay.

Eugene Khoza 33:23 Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:23 Help me understand this.

Eugene Khoza 33:24 Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:24 Are you saying that you are not loss averse-

Eugene Khoza 33:27 No, I'm loss averse

Trevor Noah 33:27 ... or are you saying that when you experience loss, you, like, whatever?

Eugene Khoza 33:30 Yes.

Trevor Noah 33:31 Both of them?

Eugene Khoza 33:31 Yeah. I f- I, I feel like my, my upbringing, my conditioning, and also the way I view life has made me survive loss better. I, I have things that I love that I don't use.

Trevor Noah 33:46 You have things that you love that you don't use?

Eugene Khoza 33:48 Yes.

Trevor Noah 33:48 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 33:49 I have things that I love that I've lost.

Trevor Noah 33:52 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 33:53 Both of those things are not with me currently, or I can choose not to be using them or with them. Does it make sense?

Trevor Noah 33:59 Yeah, okay. I understand what you're saying.

Eugene Khoza 34:00 So I walk past my bike all the time in the morning. I choose-

Trevor Noah 34:03 This is your motorbike?

Eugene Khoza 34:03 Yes.

Trevor Noah 34:04 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 34:04 I choose,

Eugene Khoza 34:05 and sometimes I can go four months without-

Trevor Noah 34:07 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 34:07 ... riding the one, and, but it's there. But if I wake up one day and it's no longer there-

Trevor Noah 34:12 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 34:12 ... the feeling of it not being there won't be horrible to me.

Trevor Noah 34:16 Oh, damn.

Eugene Khoza 34:17 Because I deal with it all the time. I look at my daughter, she turns 16. Now started grade 11.

Trevor Noah 34:22 Your daughter's 16 now?

Eugene Khoza 34:23 Yes. She's turning 17 in September.

Trevor Noah 34:24 Oh, you know, this is probably one of the reasons I don't want kids. They just make time move, man.

Eugene Khoza 34:28 [laughs] Yes. And-

Trevor Noah 34:30 The only time I feel like time has moved-

Eugene Khoza 34:31 Yes

Trevor Noah 34:31 ... is when I think of how old people's children are. Dude-

Eugene Khoza 34:35 Yes

Trevor Noah 34:35 ... your daughter to me is still like a five-year-old.

Eugene Khoza 34:40 Yes. 'Cause you met me a year before she was born.

Trevor Noah 34:44 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 34:44 Yes.

Trevor Noah 34:45 So to me, she's still-

Eugene Khoza 34:46 Yes, that small-

Trevor Noah 34:47 ... a 5-year-old that you saw

Eugene Khoza 34:48 ... smart five-year-old.

Trevor Noah 34:49 Yeah. 16.

Eugene Khoza 34:50 Yeah, 16. So she, I look at her and I look at how she thinks and how she processes things, and she's taught me that letting go is actually the best thing you can do. She, she's been with me, obviously, forever.

Trevor Noah 35:01 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 35:01 And we've lived in different places and different houses, and she's had different rooms, and she's changed schools two, three times in her life. But the way she moves around the universe amazes me all the time. She looks at life as something that's going to happen anyway. She doesn't, she, she-

Trevor Noah 35:17 She looks at life as something that's gonna happen anyway.

Eugene Khoza 35:19 Yeah, she do- Yeah, she doesn't look at it as a thing that's gonna happen if she does something.

Trevor Noah 35:22 Yeah. Okay, I understand what you mean.

Eugene Khoza 35:24 Yes. So I, I, I've started to look at life like that. When I see something new and exciting, I move towards it. When I was at the parking lot, I walked around cars, 'cause I love cars.

Trevor Noah 35:33 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 35:33 That was the best part of my job. When I went into the mall, I faced abundance. When it happened once a month when I was young, or once after four months when my mom takes me to town-

Trevor Noah 35:41 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

Eugene Khoza 35:41 ... now it happened every day. When I started doing comedy, I realized you can hang out with your friends and laugh all the time. We had more fun offstage than onstage. We would travel and then someone pays for it. We sleep in a hotel and someone pays for it. And then people would pay to hear me talk for 15 minutes, and I would go back and I would still have fun and time with my friends-

Trevor Noah 35:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right

Eugene Khoza 35:59 ... and my... So all of my jobs and my choices were all linked to my passions. I've never had a job I hated. I've never had a job that landed me in places I didn't wanna be in. I've been fortunate in that way. I'm a, I'm abundant in so many... Our friendship led me to so much abundance. I got to experience being in a private jet with you. I got to experience in a penthouse in... Man, I got to experience those things through you, through our friendship and our love for comedy-

Trevor Noah 36:23 Mm

Eugene Khoza 36:23 ... and our pure natural gift that was just to stand in front of people and have a good time. So when I close my checking account every night, that's what I do. I look at the things and the people that I love and I go, "Did they bring me closer to my passions and my, my joy and things that I would have never come close to had I not had these things?" And I go, "Your job is done." So it's not different from the wad of cash my mom had. And then she'll say, "If someone comes and needs something, take it from there."

Trevor Noah 36:49 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 36:49 "Don't ask too many questions. They came because there's a need, but they know that you have it." So I send everyone to you and I say, "He has it. Go get it."

Trevor Noah 36:57 It's an interesting lesson to learn.

Eugene Khoza 36:59 So I, I choose to do that.

Trevor Noah 37:00 [rain falling] We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break.

Trevor Noah 37:05 [upbeat music] I know that I'm loss-averse.

Eugene Khoza 37:16 Yes.

Trevor Noah 37:17 You know? But I think I'm also lucky that I haven't lost much in life. Like, I realized this-

Eugene Khoza 37:20 Mm

Trevor Noah 37:20 ... when, when my grandmother died.

Eugene Khoza 37:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:23 So it was a crazy realization.

Eugene Khoza 37:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 37:25 I've never lost a loved one.

Eugene Khoza 37:26 It was a huge loss.

Trevor Noah 37:28 Like, I've genuinely never lost a loved one.

Eugene Khoza 37:30 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 37:30 And then I started thinking differently about everyone in my life who has, 'cause I was like, "Damn, this is..." For me, it was even like a sl- it felt like a slither of a feeling-

Eugene Khoza 37:40 Mm

Trevor Noah 37:40 ... that another human being could have. Because my grandmother died at the age of 96.

Eugene Khoza 37:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:44 96, 97. So, you know what I mean. In a weird way, I wasn't around for all of it, but, like, you have, like, 100 years to prepare-

Eugene Khoza 37:52 Absolutely

Trevor Noah 37:52 ... you know. Like, we always think of 100 as this magical number, but I was like, we knew she was going.

Eugene Khoza 37:56 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:57 And she was healthy till the day she died. Died in her sleep-

Eugene Khoza 37:59 Yeah

Trevor Noah 37:59 ... the way you dream of going.

Eugene Khoza 38:00 Peacefully. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 38:01 Peacefully gone.

Eugene Khoza 38:02 Mm.

Trevor Noah 38:02 Go to bed. "Good night, everybody. See you tomorrow." [laughs] Joke's on you, there's no tomorrow.

Eugene Khoza 38:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 38:06 She was gone.

Eugene Khoza 38:06 Mm.

Trevor Noah 38:07 You know what I mean? But the feeling that I had was, like, I couldn't believe what I was experiencing.

Eugene Khoza 38:12 Mm.

Trevor Noah 38:12 Like, the grief, the loss, the, the, all of that. So are you saying that you don't have that experience, you don't have that feeling?

Eugene Khoza 38:19 I do, but I process it quicker, 'cause I know it was gonna happen anyway. So it's my choice to live in it.

Trevor Noah 38:26 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 38:26 Um, so when it happens, I, I, I, I immerse myself in the feeling and then let the feeling pass through me. So what I used to do before, I would, I would let the things get stored in me. I had, I had this huge anxiety when I was growing up of what's gonna happen to me after school, and it ruined most of my high school life. I never had fun.

Trevor Noah 38:43 Literally, literally after school. Like, every-

Eugene Khoza 38:44 Yeah, like when school finishes

Trevor Noah 38:44 ... every day you go, "What's happening when, when the bell rings today?"

Eugene Khoza 38:47 No, when school finishes.

Trevor Noah 38:48 Oh, like school-

Eugene Khoza 38:49 Because-

Trevor Noah 38:49 ... as a concept

Eugene Khoza 38:49 ... yes.

Trevor Noah 38:49 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 38:50 Because high s- when high school finishes-

Trevor Noah 38:51 Yeah, when high school is done

Eugene Khoza 38:52 ... and I look back and I have these gaps in my memory of what fun I could have had in high school had I not had that worry. If someone had a crystal ball to show me how my life would've turned out, I would have enjoyed every moment of that school. It was the best time I've ever had. But I was too concerned, you know. I was, was worried about what's gonna happen. 'Cause in my world, people who did well were people who was, who were educated, who were, who were successful, you know, who studied something-

Trevor Noah 39:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 39:16 ... and then got a good job.

Trevor Noah 39:17 I'm with you.

Eugene Khoza 39:17 So my chances were lower and lower and lower as I saw myself getting to grade 11.

Trevor Noah 39:21 'Cause of the school you went to, the-

Eugene Khoza 39:22 The school that I...

Trevor Noah 39:22 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 39:22 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 39:23 Yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 39:23 And then I knew that my chances of being successful-

Trevor Noah 39:25 Right.

Eugene Khoza 39:26 So I, when I was in a car park, I was like, "I can be happy by proxy."

Trevor Noah 39:30 Huh.

Eugene Khoza 39:31 I'm here. I'm, I'm, I'm looking at these fancy cars. I'm, I'm around them all day long, and I get paid to be here. I love music. I listen to music, and then I get paid to be here. I walk around the mall, I get paid to be here. I do comedy, I get paid to do this.

Trevor Noah 39:43 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 39:44 I do... I, I chose a path. It was either do the worrying and die or do the, what I love-

Trevor Noah 39:51 Huh

Eugene Khoza 39:51 ... and just live. But I chose that because it was my only option. I had to learn the lessons and remember them from my mom.

Trevor Noah 39:57 So-

Eugene Khoza 39:57 Then I just carry them through

Trevor Noah 39:58 ... so you're able to apply that to inanimate and-

Eugene Khoza 40:02 Yes

Trevor Noah 40:02 ... animate objects.

Eugene Khoza 40:03 Yes.

Trevor Noah 40:03 So the loss of anything and anyone-

Eugene Khoza 40:06 Yes

Trevor Noah 40:07 ... do you process it the same, or is there a difference? Or give me an example of, like, something you've lost, like a thing that you loved versus a person that you've loved. And then I wanna understand, like, how you process it, or is it the exact same way that you-

Eugene Khoza 40:19 It's the exact same way. Because remember, if I lose a watch that I loved-

Trevor Noah 40:26 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 40:27 ... and I wore every day, right?

Trevor Noah 40:29 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 40:30 It, sentimental value as I remember the things that I did to get the watch.

Trevor Noah 40:34 Right.

Eugene Khoza 40:34 I remember the places I wore the watch in. Those memories are with me. So the watch is with me because I never wore it to my sleep, I never wore it to a shower. So the watch is with me. When my son passed away, I also realized in the three months, I spent the most amount of time with him, uh, to even the day before he passed away. It was just the two of us for a few hours. The last picture I took was when we were just together in a room.

Trevor Noah 40:59 How old was he when he passed, when he passed away?

Eugene Khoza 41:01 Three months.

Trevor Noah 41:01 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 41:02 So and, and when I think of that loss, whether it's a watch or a loved one, I think of, "What do I miss about not having this person around?" Grief is, is an extended phase of regret, things that we never got to do-

Trevor Noah 41:17 Hmm

Eugene Khoza 41:17 ... with that person. I got to do all I could do at the time, the time that he had.

Trevor Noah 41:22 Hmm.

Eugene Khoza 41:22 Had I been absent for three months and he passed away in three months, I would've been so distraught because I would have nothing to miss. But now I miss him, the person that he was, because I knew him. If I lose my watch, I miss my watch. I don't miss the things that the watch did for me. It's an object. It told time. Another object can tell time.

Trevor Noah 41:43 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 41:43 If it was about money, I can buy another one. But him, I, there's no more time that I could have extended with him. It ran its course. I'm not dealing with guilt of something I did wrong or something I could have done better, but I was going, "I wish we could do more." But when I look at my daughter, I go, "We can do more. She's here now."

Trevor Noah 41:59 Oh, wow.

Eugene Khoza 42:01 Right? If I look at a watch, I go, "There is, there are more watches. I can go buy another one," but I can't cry for things that never happened.

Trevor Noah 42:07 How, how do you think, how do you think that, like, affected your, how you are a father with your daughter-

Eugene Khoza 42:15 Uh, she, she-

Trevor Noah 42:15 ... after, after losing your son?

Eugene Khoza 42:16 She became my parent. We have this running joke, her and I, where I say, "In, in our life before this one, she was my mom, and then now I get to pay her back." But it looks like she still has to do it again. She was just a happy person every time. She, I would look forward to the day she comes back from school, and then she would high-five me and tell me all sorts of stories. She had no time for my sadness.

Trevor Noah 42:34 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 42:35 Like, I would be like, "Today is just like..." "Let me tell you, neh." Then she would go on and on. Then it became my exercise to remember her friends' names, 'cause now-

Trevor Noah 42:43 Oh, okay

Eugene Khoza 42:43 ... I didn't wanna be left behind in a story.

Trevor Noah 42:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 42:45 And I was like, "This person is, is laughing. She's, she's smiling." And she only met her brother- The day he passed away at the hospital when he was certified dead

Trevor Noah 42:55 Damn

Eugene Khoza 42:56 So this kid who faced that, what I had, I had three months of seeing him because he was incubated, but he couldn't have contact 'cause he was born too early. So obviously a child would have brought germs into the house, so he couldn't be-

Trevor Noah 43:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 43:09 ... in the, in the same room with her. So the only time he saw her was then. So I compared our losses and in, in retrospect you must think of it this way: as a sibling she would have had more time with him than I would have ever had as a parent.

Trevor Noah 43:21 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 43:22 He would have outlived me. So she has never had that three months with him, but I had. So what right did I have to wallow in self-pity when w- all I could be doing now is telling her about how great this person was. 'Cause she's telling me about strangers at school and about how great they are, and here we are. And then she was there teaching me how to be strong. She was my mom again with that wad of cash saying, "Here. Spend it on things that matter, and if someone comes and asks for it, give it to them generously. Don't ask questions. Just share." She was that person for me-

Trevor Noah 43:50 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 43:50 ... and she still is for me. When I was walking down now to come into the car, she was like, "Do you have your phone?" And I was like, "Yes."

Trevor Noah 43:55 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 43:56 "You have something for your lips?" "Yes."

Trevor Noah 43:57 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 43:58 "Do you have a power bank?"

Trevor Noah 43:59 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 44:00 "Yes." She was like, "Fit check."

Trevor Noah 44:01 [laughs] There's a-

Eugene Khoza 44:04 So-

Trevor Noah 44:04 There's a beautiful saying. I don't, I don't remember where I heard this.

Eugene Khoza 44:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:08 I think it, I think it was actually Esther Perel, and we were having this conversation, and we're talking about, like, children and life and everything, and she said one of the most beautiful things ever. She said, "One of the most underappreciated aspects of having a child is that it forces you to forget yourself."

Eugene Khoza 44:27 Oh, that's deep. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 44:30 And I remember being like, "Well, wait, what do you mean?"

Eugene Khoza 44:31 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 44:31 And she said, "No." She said, "You, you take for granted that until you are responsible for the life of another human being-

Eugene Khoza 44:38 Mm

Trevor Noah 44:38 ... or another creature, really-

Eugene Khoza 44:39 Yes

Trevor Noah 44:39 ... the only life you're responsible for is your own. And so you, you live the most selfish of existences whether you like it or not."

Eugene Khoza 44:46 Yes.

Trevor Noah 44:46 "I'm hungry."

Eugene Khoza 44:48 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:48 "I'm tired."

Eugene Khoza 44:49 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:49 "I'm sad."

Eugene Khoza 44:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:50 "I'm happy."

Eugene Khoza 44:51 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:51 "I want to do this. I do not want to do this."

Eugene Khoza 44:54 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:54 It's only when you introduce another human being or living being into your life-

Eugene Khoza 44:58 Mm

Trevor Noah 44:58 ... that you're responsible for-

Eugene Khoza 44:59 Mm

Trevor Noah 44:59 ... that you have to, if you are any type of decent person, you neglect that now.

Eugene Khoza 45:03 Mm. You forgo it.

Trevor Noah 45:05 Yeah, you forgo it is a better word. Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 45:06 Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:06 You forgo it. It's a different type of meaningful, and it's like a, in a weird way it's a stupid thing, but I think of people when they get dogs. It's pretty crazy to think of-

Eugene Khoza 45:13 It's understandable, yeah

Trevor Noah 45:14 ... yeah, because a person gets a dog.

Eugene Khoza 45:16 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 45:16 And then now they have to go and walk the dog.

Eugene Khoza 45:18 Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:18 They have to go outside.

Eugene Khoza 45:20 Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:20 They, they have to, but in a weird way the have to pushes them out of themselves. So there's a day you didn't wanna go for a walk.

Eugene Khoza 45:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 45:27 Now you're walking. Do you know what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 45:28 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 45:29 And, and, and I see that with people and their kids, especially people who have either learned the lesson or have had the opportunity to fully learn the lesson.

Eugene Khoza 45:36 Absolutely, yeah. But also-

Trevor Noah 45:38 They, they forget themselves and in a weird way then get to meet other versions of themselves-

Eugene Khoza 45:42 Yes

Trevor Noah 45:42 ... that they forgot.

Eugene Khoza 45:44 L- life is about us meeting

Eugene Khoza 45:45 our teachers. L- life does not have built-in meaning. Life is meaningless, and you see that when you lock yourself in a room and do nothing. Everything else happened without you. Traffic happened. Restaurants were open. Until you get out the room and you interact with the world, then meaning happens. Then you walked a long distance, then you ate this great thing.

Trevor Noah 46:04 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Eugene Khoza 46:04 Then you played pickleball with your friends. So life has no built-in meaning. We give it meaning. But what makes life interesting is we're here to learn lessons, and we ke- keep meeting our teachers along the way. And one of the reasons why I think our friendship, you and I, has endured so long, and it's actually almost the same age as my daughter's relationship, is, is because of your childlike nature. You look at the world with wonder. You don't look at anything as impossible. I remember one time you and I were driving somewhere, and we were stuck in traffic, and you said, "Eugene." And I said, "Yes."

Trevor Noah 46:31 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 46:31 'Cause that's how we talk to each other. You said, "You know what we must do?" And I said, "What?" Said, "We must buy a plane."

Trevor Noah 46:37 [laughs] Oh, that sounds like me.

Eugene Khoza 46:40 I said, I said, "Eh?" He said, "Yes, we must buy a plane." And I was like, "Planes are expensive." He said, "Yeah, yeah, but the small ones. You know, we can buy a Cessna. You know what we can do? If four comedians come together and we put 100, 100, 100, 100-

Trevor Noah 46:53 Oh, Jesus

Eugene Khoza 46:53 ... then if we need to go somewhere, neh, then we can just fly the plane." Then I was like, "But what if we need to go different... " He said, "Yeah, then we'll book shows. Then we can all fly in together. We can fly in, fly out."

Trevor Noah 47:02 That's funny, man.

Eugene Khoza 47:02 "Then we'll make it home again." You were like, "Yeah." Then I was like, "Okay." Th- th- there are many times that you and I did things-

Trevor Noah 47:08 I mean, we never did.

Eugene Khoza 47:09 Yes.

Trevor Noah 47:10 Just for anyone listening, but this was, because we were very far from even the idea of buying a plane.

Eugene Khoza 47:14 But fast-forward 13 years later.

Trevor Noah 47:15 No, no, no, I'm with you.

Eugene Khoza 47:16 You see what I'm saying? So you've always had that. W- would... The day you immigrated to America, I remember I was at your house. You said, "Come over." And then I came. Then we played Army of Two. And then you were like, "Hush. I have to go now." Then I was like, "Where are you going?" You're like, "I'm going to America."

Trevor Noah 47:30 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 47:33 Then I was like, "Is it a restaurant?"

Trevor Noah 47:34 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 47:35 "In. Can I come, too? What's going on?" You were like, "No, no, I'm... You. Ah, snap." Then you packed your bag. You switched off the thing, and you were like, "Oh, you can have these games. I'm not gonna play them anymore." Then I was like, "Are you really leaving?" You were like, "Yeah." Then I was like, "But what time do you need to be there?" Like, "I need to be there 30 minutes ago."

Trevor Noah 47:50 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 47:53 Then there you went in gray tracksuit pants. You were gone. You, you went to go start-

Trevor Noah 47:58 Oh, man

Eugene Khoza 47:58 ... a new life and a new career elsewhere. And I always looked at you, and I go... I, I was telling a friend of mine when you first started to become prominent in American culture-

Trevor Noah 48:08 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 48:08 ... or in the American space. I said, "This guy would have been successful even if he was a plumber. It, it... Comedy did not help him become successful. TV did not help him become successful."

Trevor Noah 48:16 No, thank you, man.

Eugene Khoza 48:17 With anything he would have been fine because he just looks at things like a kid. He, he looks and he goes tinkers and he opens at the back, and he touches this thing. With America he was like, "Where's the most comedy clubs? Where's the most comedy?" Narrow it down to a place. "Okay, how many shows can I do? Okay, how many people can I see? Okay, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many?" You look at things like that. And I always look at your life, and I go if I was like you, I would have been where you are. If you were like me, you would have been where I am. The wonder and the beauty of how we are as two people is we're not alike. That's why you and I can sit and speak-

Trevor Noah 48:48 Mm

Eugene Khoza 48:48 ... about everything but comedy. We speak about cars. We speak about life. So I'll always have time for a person who-

Trevor Noah 48:54 I think, yeah, but-

Eugene Khoza 48:55 ... who looks at life like that

Trevor Noah 48:56 ... and I think we've both shared that. So it's funny, I think of, when I think of comedy-

Eugene Khoza 49:00 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 49:00 ... and how we shared it-

Eugene Khoza 49:01 Mm

Trevor Noah 49:02 ... it was the same thing.

Eugene Khoza 49:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 49:03 We both had a deep love for the idea of the... 'Cause what-

Eugene Khoza 49:08 Yes

Trevor Noah 49:08 ... what, what made comedy specifically unique at that time in South Africa was-

Eugene Khoza 49:12 Yes

Trevor Noah 49:12 ... it wasn't a thing.

Eugene Khoza 49:14 No.

Trevor Noah 49:14 Like a thing thing.

Eugene Khoza 49:15 No.

Trevor Noah 49:15 Do you know what I mean? If you said to anyone in South Africa, your parents, your friends, anyone, "I'm gonna be a comedian, I'm gonna do comedy," people-

Eugene Khoza 49:21 Mm

Trevor Noah 49:21 ... were like, "What is that?" Right? And there was, like, a few people, not even a generation, a few people a few years ahead of us who were doing it.

Eugene Khoza 49:30 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:30 You know, the David Gowers and the Jon Voros Smiths and all these, but it wasn't like a, a, a long-

Eugene Khoza 49:35 It wasn't a thing

Trevor Noah 49:35 ... yeah, it wasn't a thing.

Eugene Khoza 49:36 Mm.

Trevor Noah 49:36 It wasn't a, you know, a long history tradition.

Eugene Khoza 49:39 Mm.

Trevor Noah 49:40 So what I loved was we were a ragtag group of enthusiasts, you know, like hobbyists.

Eugene Khoza 49:46 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:46 That's what we were doing-

Eugene Khoza 49:47 Yeah, 100%

Trevor Noah 49:47 ... when we were doing comedy. We're these people standing in a field with homemade airplanes.

Eugene Khoza 49:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:51 And we're throwing them and being like, "How far can yours go?"

Eugene Khoza 49:53 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:54 "Uh, so what I've learned is if you turn the wings like this and if..." Do, do you get what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 49:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:58 And it's funny because I think you have kept that more than anybody I know.

Eugene Khoza 50:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 50:04 You might say I have childlike wonder. You are the most hobby-obsessed person I know. I don't know anyone who's had more hobbies than you.

Eugene Khoza 50:12 Mm.

Trevor Noah 50:13 Everything from trail riding motorbikes, racing race bikes on a, on a, on a track, um, shooting guns at a range, uh-

Eugene Khoza 50:25 Started golf now.

Trevor Noah 50:26 You started golf?

Eugene Khoza 50:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 50:27 Wow, there we go. Golf. Then you went through, like, a running phase.

Eugene Khoza 50:31 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 50:31 Like, you were doing, like, 20 kilometers-

Eugene Khoza 50:32 Mm

Trevor Noah 50:32 ... 10 kilometers. Then you... I mean, now that I say it out loud, I feel like you're turning into a white person. This has been a-

Eugene Khoza 50:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 50:39 ... a long journey. I'm actually, only now that I'm saying it, like, looking at it-

Eugene Khoza 50:42 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 50:43 ... I'm like, "Wait a minute. Eugene." [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 50:47 [laughs] Oh, man.

Trevor Noah 50:50 [laughs] When I look at what you're doing.

Eugene Khoza 50:53 I like to be around.

Trevor Noah 50:54 Oh, boy. No, but you, but you, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 50:57 You and her taught me that. Adventure.

Trevor Noah 50:59 That's what it is.

Eugene Khoza 50:59 Go for it.

Trevor Noah 51:00 That's what it is. You-

Eugene Khoza 51:00 Yeah

Trevor Noah 51:00 ... you've always been the adventure person.

Eugene Khoza 51:02 Yeah. You show me that all the time. When I see you doing something, I'm like, "Adventure does pay off," 'cause you go on this wilder-

Trevor Noah 51:08 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 51:08 ... and you look at-

Trevor Noah 51:09 Yeah, but no, no, but where we're different though is-

Eugene Khoza 51:10 Mm

Trevor Noah 51:10 ... and this is why I admire you, where we're different is you-

Eugene Khoza 51:13 It's an admiration contest.

Trevor Noah 51:14 Yeah. And we'll see who wins.

Eugene Khoza 51:16 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:16 You, you, um, I think one thing that's always inspired me about you-

Eugene Khoza 51:20 I think I just excluded myself from that competition. [laughs] Ryan is out.

Trevor Noah 51:23 There's no admiration. I, I hold friendly with you. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 51:26 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:27 And you know what, Ryan, that's what I love about you, is you don't need to compete with other people.

Eugene Khoza 51:30 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:31 That's why I admire you. [upbeat music] And now it's time for today's Self-Care Toolkit segment, brought to you by Amazon. Whether it's delivering medication to your door with Amazon Pharmacy or 24/7 virtual care with Amazon One Medical, thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful. Okay, can we talk about comfort food when you're sick? Because I feel like that's when logic leaves the building, all logic. Like, you'd think being sick would make you eat something mild and healthy. No, no, for some reason, when I'm under the weather, I'm like, "You know what sounds good right now? A giant plate of fries and three different kinds of sauce." You mix the sauce and it confuses the disease. I don't know, there's something about being sick that makes your cravings totally unhinged. Maybe it's, maybe it's just me, and it's different for everyone. For some people, it's toast and tea, I've heard. Uh, for others, it's mac and cheese or pho and ice cream. Yes, I've actually heard that, ice cream with pho while coughing. I think part of it is, is just nostalgia, you know? Maybe it's our brains wanting to feel better and food is memory. You know that one soup your grandmother made or, or whatever your parents gave you as a kid when you stayed home from school. Maybe that's what it is. Psychological reward for sickness. So maybe it's not about the food making you better. Maybe it's just about making you feel better, and that's just as important. Mm. Mm, so profound. Well, we hope we gave you some ideas for your self-care routine. Today's Self-Care Toolkit segment was brought to you by Amazon. Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful. [upbeat music] You've always inspired me, and you've always reminded me to focus on being successful at living life.

Eugene Khoza 53:30 Mm.

Trevor Noah 53:31 Which is something that I think sometimes we forget as people.

Eugene Khoza 53:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 53:34 'Cause I've always been good at living work. You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 53:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 53:38 Like, I'm really good at that. Plumbing, electrician, you name it. There's literally... I remember someone once said to me, they're like, "What would you do if you wouldn't do comedy?" And I, I almost like, I'm like, "Anything."

Eugene Khoza 53:47 Mm.

Trevor Noah 53:47 "I would do anything," because-

Eugene Khoza 53:49 You would be great at it

Trevor Noah 53:50 ... because I'm like, y- yeah, anything, something has to be done.

Eugene Khoza 53:53 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 53:54 You know? I remember my mom said to me one day-

Eugene Khoza 53:55 That's good. Something has to be done.

Trevor Noah 53:56 It's true. Something has to be done.

Eugene Khoza 53:57 I like that. I love that.

Trevor Noah 53:58 My mom and I, we, we were driving, I don't know, from church or somewhere. It was probably from church. We only really drove to church together, but we're in the car and my mom said to me, she's like really angry and she's like, "Look, look at these. How can people be unemployed?" And I was like, "Mom, what do you mean how can people be unemployed? Sometimes..." And then my mom said, "There's always something to be done."

Eugene Khoza 54:16 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 54:17 My mom said to me, she said, "You look in your life."

Eugene Khoza 54:20 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 54:20 She said, "Before you say there's nothing to be done, just go for a walk and look around you. There's something to be done." I was a teenager at this time, but I was like, "Mom, that's not true. Sometimes there's nothing." And then while we were driving, she said, "Okay, let's look on the street. What needs to be done?" I was like, "What, what do you mean?" She's like, "Look at the street. What needs to be done?" I was like, "I, I don't know." And then she said, "Does that grass look like it's been cut?" I was like, "No." She's like, "So clearly that needs to be done." She said, "So if you go to that house and you say, 'Let me cut your grass...'" And I said, "Yeah, but what if they don't pay me?" She said, "Yeah, then you can still cut it though."

Eugene Khoza 54:51 Mm. It will be done.

Trevor Noah 54:53 It'll be done. And she said, "Then you'll go and you'll cut and you'll cut." And she said, "Eventually-" Eventually, somebody's gonna pay you to cut grass. She said, "Go and look for things to be done, 'cause there's always something to be done." The phrase my mom hated, and I still like, I actually have to like work on the opposite now, is whenever my mom... Like, my mom, the phrase she hated was, "There's nothing to do."

Eugene Khoza 55:13 Mm.

Trevor Noah 55:13 "I have nothing to do."

Eugene Khoza 55:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 55:15 She's like, "Uh, there's always something to be done." What do you mean?

Eugene Khoza 55:17 Mm.

Trevor Noah 55:18 But what that meant was, it meant that I've always been completely comfortable in work.

Eugene Khoza 55:26 In the doing.

Trevor Noah 55:26 In the doing and the w- but the doing in one specific place.

Eugene Khoza 55:28 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 55:30 But you have always shown me, like... I mean, first time I rode like mountain bikes in South African j- was with you.

Eugene Khoza 55:40 Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 55:40 Do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 55:41 Yes, that day. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 55:41 Like, we... Like-

Eugene Khoza 55:44 That's funny

Trevor Noah 55:44 ... and I, and I think funny enough, that's maybe s- one of the things that you blessed me with in comedy is, had I not met you. 'Cause we, we literally started comedy about a week apart.

Eugene Khoza 55:52 100%, in parallel universes.

Trevor Noah 55:53 Literally.

Eugene Khoza 55:54 You were there that day and I wasn't there.

Trevor Noah 55:55 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 55:55 And I was there that day, you were not there.

Trevor Noah 55:57 But literally a week apart-

Eugene Khoza 55:58 Same week. Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 55:58 ... we started comedy, in the same venue-

Eugene Khoza 56:01 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 56:01 ... in the same city, in the same country, right?

Eugene Khoza 56:03 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 56:04 But I think the, the thing you blessed me with in comedy is, you always reminded me to keep it as a hobby.

Eugene Khoza 56:11 Mm.

Trevor Noah 56:12 Like, always. You've almost always been allergic to it being a job.

Eugene Khoza 56:15 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 56:17 In fact, every time f- people have tried to make it a job, I almost feel like you get like, you, you get offended in a weird way. And had you not done that with me, I think I would have let comedy be a job. And then if, if you let that happen, oftentimes the joy and the wonder that you experience-

Eugene Khoza 56:34 Goes away

Trevor Noah 56:34 ... in the thing goes away.

Eugene Khoza 56:35 Yes. It's a have to.

Trevor Noah 56:37 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 56:37 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 56:37 It's a have to and not a want to.

Eugene Khoza 56:38 Yes. Our job as humans, we have to tap into our DNA and remember why we are here.

Trevor Noah 56:44 Why do you think we're here?

Eugene Khoza 56:45 To live and fix the things that we didn't do the last time. I think our lives are a continuous journey. Our souls know why we're here. This body's just a vessel.

Trevor Noah 56:53 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 56:53 We're just here to remember. There's times and there's... when we find passions and we find places that we're familiar with, but we don't know from where. It's 'cause we've been here before. We're trying to remember, and that what life... That's what makes life interesting for me. When I go to a place and I'm like, "This is interesting," I'm like, "I remember. There must have been something great here that happened somewhere, sometime-

Trevor Noah 57:12 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 57:12 ... that brings me back here again." And, and I live in that world of wonder, where I go, "I've been here before. I've done this thing before." That's why when I lose something, I'm like, "I must have had it before, and I had it again, and it was time for it to go, so something can happen now." I need to feel something. My job in this world with this vessel, with this body, with all of the friends and the environments that it has brought me in-

Trevor Noah 57:34 Mm

Eugene Khoza 57:34 ... is to feel something. If I feel happy, I know I'm feeling.

Trevor Noah 57:38 You know, it's so funny you say this.

Eugene Khoza 57:39 Mm.

Trevor Noah 57:40 One of the most transformative thoughts I've, I've ever experienced as a person-

Eugene Khoza 57:45 Mm

Trevor Noah 57:45 ... was, I was... I think I was in Sweden, and I was on a mushroom trip.

Eugene Khoza 57:50 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 57:50 Right? And, you know, you, you, you having this beautiful experience-

Eugene Khoza 57:56 Mm

Trevor Noah 57:56 ... connecting with yourself, connecting with others. But one of the things that really hit me was the idea of energy.

Eugene Khoza 58:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:04 Right? And I'm not a woo woo person per se.

Eugene Khoza 58:08 Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:08 You know, I'm not very spiritual. I think you're more spiritual than I am.

Eugene Khoza 58:11 No.

Trevor Noah 58:11 No, I think you are.

Eugene Khoza 58:12 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 58:12 And, and in, in a good way.

Eugene Khoza 58:13 Oh.

Trevor Noah 58:14 And like, and I think you remind me of that sometimes. Like, I can be very didactic, I can be very... You know, i- ironically, to go back to the Bible, it's like, you know, if you, if you look at the, the Trinity-

Eugene Khoza 58:22 Mm

Trevor Noah 58:22 ... it's like, yeah, there's, there's the mind-

Eugene Khoza 58:24 Mm

Trevor Noah 58:24 ... there's the body, and then there's the spirit.

Eugene Khoza 58:25 Soul. Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:26 This thing that exists in a world that-

Eugene Khoza 58:27 Mm

Trevor Noah 58:27 ... you can't really... You don't think it and you don't feel it, but it is.

Eugene Khoza 58:30 Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:30 Right?

Eugene Khoza 58:30 Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:31 And, and the thought that I had was energy. Everything that's happening-

Eugene Khoza 58:36 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 58:36 ... in the universe is energy, right?

Eugene Khoza 58:37 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:38 Like, it's... But like actual, like even physics energy. I'm not saying like, "Ah, it's energy."

Eugene Khoza 58:41 Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:41 I'm saying it's actual energy.

Eugene Khoza 58:42 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 58:43 Right? [laughs] Yeah, but I'm not saying-

Eugene Khoza 58:45 Why did you add a sound effect? But that album still available?

Trevor Noah 58:47 "Ah, it's energy."

Eugene Khoza 58:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 58:48 No, I don't mean that.

Eugene Khoza 58:49 The sound effect did it.

Trevor Noah 58:49 I don't mean... Not even dismissive to that.

Eugene Khoza 58:51 [laughs] Okay, good.

Trevor Noah 58:51 But I don't mean that.

Eugene Khoza 58:51 I get you. I get you.

Trevor Noah 58:53 And I was thinking to myself once, it almost feels like our purpose and our idea, and it's... What's funny that you just said that, is to express the idea of what it means to be-

Eugene Khoza 59:08 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 59:08 ... by being in relation to.

Eugene Khoza 59:10 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:11 You know?

Eugene Khoza 59:12 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:12 So I, like, I think of, like, light is a good example.

Eugene Khoza 59:14 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:15 I always find it crazy, 'cause physics is such a complicated thing. My brain, I really struggle to understand it.

Eugene Khoza 59:19 Same.

Trevor Noah 59:20 I listen to it-

Eugene Khoza 59:21 Mm

Trevor Noah 59:21 ... and I remember things-

Eugene Khoza 59:23 Mm

Trevor Noah 59:23 ... but I go, "I don't understand it." But like, one of the craziest concepts to me is the fact that I'm not seeing you.

Eugene Khoza 59:28 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:29 I'm seeing the light that is refracted off you.

Eugene Khoza 59:30 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:31 Right? The w- so when we see a flower, we're not seeing the flower really.

Eugene Khoza 59:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 59:34 We're seeing the light that the flower is reflecting. And when you expand that i- sort of infinitely, you know, throughout time, you go, that is what we all are. What we all are is reflections of energy and light that are, that is helping us to experience the thing that is happening. And then to your point, I, I, I remember thinking, huh, I was like, what if the idea of what we call God or this thing that we've all, you know, in different religions, different place, different whatevers we wanna call it, what if it itself is trying to experience the thing-

Eugene Khoza 1:00:09 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:00:09 ... and that's why everything is?

Eugene Khoza 1:00:11 Yeah. Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:00:12 Do, do, do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:00:13 100%. It makes total sense. It's just that as people, we avoid that because it will now make us question everything that we are. The choices that we made, the people that we know, the places that we've been.

Trevor Noah 1:00:28 Yeah, and I think of all of that as an experiment.

Eugene Khoza 1:00:29 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:00:29 Like, I go, so-

Eugene Khoza 1:00:30 It's a giant experiment.

Trevor Noah 1:00:31 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:00:31 We're in a Petri dish.

Trevor Noah 1:00:32 Yeah. So I-

Eugene Khoza 1:00:32 And someone is busy going...

Trevor Noah 1:00:34 I think of it as a giant experiment.

Eugene Khoza 1:00:35 Yeah. 100% true.

Trevor Noah 1:00:36 You know?

Eugene Khoza 1:00:37 It's 100% true.

Trevor Noah 1:00:38 Like, I actually, I think of it like w- when s- when scientists shoot lasers or they shoot like a, even a telescope.

Eugene Khoza 1:00:43 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:00:44 What y- what you're doing is you're getting a reflection of something, right?

Eugene Khoza 1:00:46 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:00:46 You're getting light from, from a far distance away-

Eugene Khoza 1:00:48 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:00:48 ... and you're getting information from it. And I wondered, like, we could literally be the lasers that are being sent to come back with information. So you driving the way you drove, in a weird way, I know this sounds crazy-

Eugene Khoza 1:00:59 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:00:59 ... but in a weird way, you're teaching the entire human race- ... how to drive.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:02 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:01:03 And then you eating... Like, I always go, I'm so grateful to people who ate certain foods and died-

Eugene Khoza 1:01:09 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:01:09 ... so that I know which foods I can eat.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:10 I think of it for pets. I'm like, the first person that tried to tame a wol- a wolf, now we have puppies.

Trevor Noah 1:01:17 It's pretty crazy.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:18 Yeah, because-

Trevor Noah 1:01:18 By the way, have you seen-

Eugene Khoza 1:01:19 Yo.

Trevor Noah 1:01:19 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:01:21 Do it for you, Trevor.

Trevor Noah 1:01:22 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:01:22 So you can walk in the mall with this thing one day.

Trevor Noah 1:01:24 Have you seen, have you seen the videos of those guys who still do that now?

Eugene Khoza 1:01:27 Who try to tame wolves?

Trevor Noah 1:01:28 No, not try.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:29 Who tame wolves?

Trevor Noah 1:01:30 Not tame, Eugene.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:31 What do you mean?

Trevor Noah 1:01:32 There's these videos of people-

Eugene Khoza 1:01:33 Uh-huh

Trevor Noah 1:01:33 ... who are out in the mountains, then they see wolves.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:36 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:01:36 Then they call the wolves like dogs.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:39 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:01:39 And then the wolf is not, obviously it is not a dog, but it, like, looks at them, it approaches them, and it's actually quite amenable to you as a person.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:48 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:01:48 And then they start playing with it. And then you see the wolf going, "What is this that I'm experiencing?"

Eugene Khoza 1:01:53 This is good.

Trevor Noah 1:01:54 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:01:54 I like this.

Trevor Noah 1:01:54 Why, why is this clothed monkey making me feel good? [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:01:57 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:01:58 Like, that's what the wolf is experiencing. And, and then, like, they, they say that this is probably how it happened, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Eugene Khoza 1:02:04 Domestication.

Trevor Noah 1:02:05 You know, yeah, domestication, et cetera. But, but it, it's, it's amazing to see-

Eugene Khoza 1:02:08 Or dating

Trevor Noah 1:02:08 ... that stuff. It's still like that. Did you say, "Or dating?"

Eugene Khoza 1:02:11 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:02:12 Wow. [growls] [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:02:14 [laughs] Oh, man. Look, one concept that blew my mind away, um, and also changed my life was when I read somewhere, I don't remember where, where it says, "Everything that you're experiencing is what you want to experience." So everyone in my life is a character that I created for me to have the sum total of a life experience, with feelings and emotions-

Trevor Noah 1:02:38 Damn

Eugene Khoza 1:02:38 ... and a quick fast-forward to the journey that I need. What I signed up for before I was born, I knew which characters must come into play for me to achieve what I need to achieve.

Trevor Noah 1:02:47 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 1:02:47 So for you to be here in a room with me is because I wanted it to happen. In the back of my mind, somewhere in my lesson, in my past life, this should have happened so that I can, can lead to something else. Same with you. So we keep meeting these soul families, a group of five individuals that will make a great impact in your life as you go along. So even if it's the first stage of your life, there'll be five that you can mention that matter. As an adolescent, there'll be five that matter. In your career, there'll be five that matter. Those are soul groups. So those are people just coming into your life, and they exist purely for your assistance. They're here to push you. They're here to teach you. Even heartbreak is a lesson. Not all good time. That's why I was asking you in the beginning, why do you think pain features so much in the Bible?

Trevor Noah 1:03:28 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 1:03:28 It's because heartbreak is an accelerant. Hurt and pain and loss is an accelerant to feeling something. You can be comfortable all your life and not feel anything else, but as soon as you feel loss and pain, you will remember that you also had a good time. So that's what pain and suffering is for, but suffering is voluntary. So you suffer and you choose it, and you use it as a medication. You take it in doses so that you can remember how good you have it. Someone in a, in a hospital right now who has no chance of leaving, has, doesn't have this privilege that you and I have, to walk downstairs, to walk around, get in the car, press buttons, and that's all they want at this moment.

Trevor Noah 1:04:03 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 1:04:03 But they've had it maybe for 50 years-

Trevor Noah 1:04:05 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:04:05 ... and never cared for it, but the suffering accelerated the memory of the good times that they had. So if you think about life like that, you can walk around the mall and see mil- hundreds of people, but if you think about how many people you've called and sat with and chatted with, in most cases they won't exceed number five. It's that group of people that you can rely on and trust, and they always accelerate you to go further. And those are the people that will bring heartache, they'll bring laughter, they'll bring lessons, they'll bring admiration and adoration-

Trevor Noah 1:04:32 Mm

Eugene Khoza 1:04:32 ... at the same time, because you need those two to balance. As much as you admire someone, someone needs to adore you. That's when the base romantic relationships work, when there's a oineg man in the group. Someone gets admired, and someone adores the other person. They adore the fact that they admire them, and they admire them for the fact that they adored them. So that's how things work, this balance that we're always seeking, and just knowing that once you start feeling something, then something is happening. Growth is pain. Kids go through that all the time. "Oh, my elbow. Oh, my back." Because they're growing, then they go and rest, and everything feels better again.

Trevor Noah 1:05:04 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:04 But as adults, what do we do? We just go and try to make pain not exist, because we feel like when we're feeling pain, we've failed. And when you're feeling pain, you're growing. When you're tired, like we walked the other time-

Trevor Noah 1:05:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:05:16 ... and we felt it, yeah, then we did something.

Trevor Noah 1:05:19 I think it's the ultimate dilemma, though.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:20 100%.

Trevor Noah 1:05:21 I'll tell you why I think it's the ultimate dilemma, is because I think we should be careful-

Eugene Khoza 1:05:27 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:05:27 ... to not make life about pain.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:29 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:05:29 And I'm not saying you're saying that, by the way.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:30 No, absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:05:31 But I, I, I have noticed there's been a... and maybe this is not a new thing, but just generally I've noticed a lot of people seem to use pain as the meaning. Do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:05:41 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:05:41 They go, "That's why we're here, and then uh, uh, and then uh, uh, uh, uh, and then..." And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. Pain is part of the experience."

Eugene Khoza 1:05:48 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:05:48 But I think we should be careful to not make pain the experience.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:52 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:05:52 Do you get what I'm saying? And the reason I say this is because we should also remember, in the same way that we can not only exist in fun, good, easy, comfortable, warm-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:05 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:06:05 ... we also don't exist in cold-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:10 Hot

Trevor Noah 1:06:10 ... boring, hard, painful. We don't exist like that.

Eugene Khoza 1:06:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:14 You know? Look at, look at animals, like, you know, throughout Africa. Why do they migrate?

Eugene Khoza 1:06:20 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:20 Like, think of the fundamental concept of migration.

Eugene Khoza 1:06:23 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:23 It's an animal going, "Oh-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:25 Avoid the bad times [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:06:25 ... this land is about to become arid-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:27 And I'm out of here

Trevor Noah 1:06:27 ... it is about to become cold-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:29 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:06:29 ... it is about to become unlivable. We're gonna go seek out another place."

Eugene Khoza 1:06:33 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:34 And oftentimes, to your point, that journey is hard.

Eugene Khoza 1:06:36 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:37 But the thing that they're seeking is not hard.

Eugene Khoza 1:06:39 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:40 And so sometimes I get, like, a little... there's, like, a little spidey sense that hits me the wrong, the way where I go, like, sometimes I go, like, "Guys, I think we're learning the, the wrong lesson, or we're applying the r-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:48 Of course

Trevor Noah 1:06:48 ... the lesson incorrectly." Because people will be like, "I'm looking for the pain." And I'm... you're not saying that, but I'm saying-

Eugene Khoza 1:06:53 No, no, absolutely

Trevor Noah 1:06:53 ... you go, like, "Pain's a lesson. I love that."

Eugene Khoza 1:06:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:55 But people go, "No, I look for pain. I look for the thing. I look..." Then I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no." I argue- Looking for the thing on the other side, looking for the rainbow-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:05 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:07:06 ... getting to it is the pain.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:08 You know what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 1:07:08 Yeah, the journey.

Trevor Noah 1:07:09 That is the pain.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:10 You wanna go and see the view from the highest peak.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:13 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:07:14 The, the hike is the pain.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:15 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:16 But it, I, I get a little thrown off when people now sell the pain and they make it seem like that is the... It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Understand that that is part of it.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:24 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:24 You cannot get to a tall peak-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:26 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:07:26 ... without experiencing the pain of the hike.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:28 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:29 And when you get there, as you say, funny enough, I love it, that's a beautiful way to put it, it's an accelerant. That pain of the walk makes you appreciate the view even more-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:36 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:07:36 ... because you're like, "Wow, I can't believe this and I, 'cause I don't get to see it, and my knees-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:41 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:07:41 ... my legs, my body, my feeling, my whatever," what, you know?

Eugene Khoza 1:07:44 You know, the thing is, the average person does not know the difference between suffering and pain.

Trevor Noah 1:07:48 The, the first time I came across that was, it was Victor Frankl, I think.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:51 Really?

Trevor Noah 1:07:51 Yeah. Uh, Victor Frankl, who was a, a psychotherapist, and he was a Holocaust survivor.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:57 And I remember reading his work, and he developed a lot of it, I think, i- in the Holocaust. And he said-

Eugene Khoza 1:08:04 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:08:04 ... what he learned there was pain is real, suffering is a choice.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:08 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:09 And a lot of people were angry at this, and he said, "No." And he said, he said, "I realized this in the concentration camp."

Eugene Khoza 1:08:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:15 He said, "These Nazis were there and they were wanting to exterminate me and my people." And he said, "But every day, I was like, 'I can smile if I wanna smile, and I can choose to enjoy my day.'" Now, people w- if you say that, people will be like, "That's crazy."

Eugene Khoza 1:08:29 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:29 But he was like, "No, no, no." He's like, "This to me-

Eugene Khoza 1:08:33 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:08:33 ... is real."

Eugene Khoza 1:08:34 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:08:35 "This part of my reality I'm defining."

Eugene Khoza 1:08:36 This conversation.

Trevor Noah 1:08:37 Yeah. And, and you know-

Eugene Khoza 1:08:38 This laughter

Trevor Noah 1:08:38 ... you know when you realize how real it is, to your point-

Eugene Khoza 1:08:40 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:08:40 ... the pain and suffering? I always think of it in traffic.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:45 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:46 Depending on how you feel, traffic is either just a thing that is happening or it is the end of your life.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:58 Like, I even think of it like this, funny enough. Like, a podcast is a, is a great example. When I have a podcast that I'm listening to that I'm enjoying, there is no traffic. There's literally no traffic. I'm listening to a conversation and I'm driving.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:14 Sometimes I get angry that I get there sooner than I was anticipating-

Eugene Khoza 1:09:17 Because this thing is happening

Trevor Noah 1:09:17 ... because I haven't finished the episode.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:19 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:09:19 Now I'm sitting in a parking lot going, "Oh, man."

Eugene Khoza 1:09:21 Now I have to leave these friends of mine.

Trevor Noah 1:09:23 "Oh. Oh, man."

Eugene Khoza 1:09:24 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:09:24 "Oh, man. Why? I thought there was gonna be more traffic. Ah, ah."

Eugene Khoza 1:09:27 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:09:28 Yeah, but y- you get what I'm saying? Now I'm at, I'm at, I've either reached the house-

Eugene Khoza 1:09:31 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:09:31 ... that I was going to, or I've reached the destination, the office that I was driving. But I'm angry that there wasn't enough of the traffic-

Eugene Khoza 1:09:38 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:09:38 ... because I enjoy listening in a car.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:39 So perspective.

Trevor Noah 1:09:40 You know what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 1:09:41 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:42 But if I'm trying to get somewhere-

Eugene Khoza 1:09:44 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:09:45 ... now all of a sudden I don't have a podcast, and traffic is the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:50 And so to your point, funny enough, that's where it's pain versus suffering.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:53 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:54 Right? The, the pain is real. Yes-

Eugene Khoza 1:09:55 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:09:55 ... your, your Wi-Fi's slow.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:58 But you're not suffering.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:59 Yes. So animals know this w- better than anyone. So they migrate because they know that if they stay here, they're gonna suffer, and that's optional. So they walk-

Trevor Noah 1:10:08 Oh

Eugene Khoza 1:10:08 ... towards the pain so they can avoid the suffering. So that's what the thing is. So it's an accelerant in that way, that we need to walk towards it, but if you stay, you suffer. So suffering is always regret of things you would have done had you endured the pain.

Trevor Noah 1:10:22 Yo, damn, that's deep. I thought I was-

Eugene Khoza 1:10:24 So you just have to-

Trevor Noah 1:10:25 I thought I was talking to a comedian. Yo, this, I wasn't prepared for this. Oh. Oh, I wasn't ready. That's a deep one, man.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:33 So you're there doing it.

Trevor Noah 1:10:34 Yeah, no.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:34 Mm. So-

Trevor Noah 1:10:35 But just say that again

Eugene Khoza 1:10:36 ... so suffering-

Trevor Noah 1:10:37 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:10:37 ... is if you stay, and then pain is what you go through when you walk away from suffering.

Trevor Noah 1:10:42 Hmm. So it's like you choose, do you-

Eugene Khoza 1:10:43 'Cause there's gonna be regret in suffering

Trevor Noah 1:10:45 ... No, you can apply it to everything.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:46 Yeah, it's gonna be regret in suffering.

Trevor Noah 1:10:47 You can apply it to everything.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:48 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:10:48 Uh, going to the gym is painful.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:49 Painful. But being-

Trevor Noah 1:10:50 Being overweight is suffering

Eugene Khoza 1:10:51 ... being unhealthy and dying-

Trevor Noah 1:10:52 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:10:53 ... and making other people have to live through that-

Trevor Noah 1:10:54 No, and not being able to walk upstairs, carry your kids-

Eugene Khoza 1:10:57 ... suffering. Now you're suffering

Trevor Noah 1:10:58 ... lifting, you're suffering.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:58 Yes. Should I have met, should I have canceled and said, "Ah, I'm busy," and I didn't go-

Trevor Noah 1:11:03 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:11:03 ... now I'm gonna sit here and suffer and regret. We could have been doing this. I could have just been here. I walked towards it. I had to do this, I had to do that. Yeah, I don't wanna get up now, or should I get dressed now, or let me go... Then I'm here, then the pain. Then I'm here at the mountaintop, like you said, and I'm looking at this view. Animals do it instinctually. They know that if they stay, they suffer. If they move, they feel pain, but it's ultimately worth it 'cause it, it's an accelerant to good times. Always when you have to have a little bit of pain, the reward is far greater. So when people have become numb, like you said, that's where the pain starts. That's where the meanness in people is. That's where the impatience is. That's where the intolerance is. 'Cause we've, we, we now avoid suffering and pain at the same time.

Trevor Noah 1:11:44 Yeah, we, we want neither.

Eugene Khoza 1:11:45 Now you living, now you numb. So that's why I say when the day finishes and I'm in pain-

Trevor Noah 1:11:48 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:11:48 ... I know that I did something nice. Not when I have regret. I shouldn't have gone there. Why'd I even go-

Trevor Noah 1:11:53 Yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:11:53 ... with my instinct was telling me not?

Trevor Noah 1:11:54 I'm with you.

Eugene Khoza 1:11:55 I shouldn't have gone. Why? But if I'm going, "Oh, my neck, ooh, this, ooh, yo, my finger," because of doing this all day, ooh, this and that, I've never regretted those days. I always wake up the next morning and go, "I know exactly why this part is sore," but because that pain accelerated me to learn a new skill and, and learn how this person... We've sat in cars so many times, you and I.

Trevor Noah 1:12:14 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:15 And then we don't like sitting in cars, but we love cars.

Trevor Noah 1:12:17 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:17 And then in the car we know that we play music in the background, and I've always criticized your music choice, but it, it allows conversation-

Trevor Noah 1:12:23 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:12:24 ... 'cause we're not there singing, "Na-na-na, na-na-na."

Trevor Noah 1:12:26 It allows conversation. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:12:28 Yeah, we're there playing... You're always playing there Tchaikovsky and all these, Bach. And I'm like, "Trevor, is this an elevator?"

Trevor Noah 1:12:34 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:12:34 He like, "Sort of." And then we're there, we have these conver- and we're in a contained environment, in traffic like you said, but we don't see the traffic, and we, we get to have these conversations extendedly. But then when I look at myself, I'm like, "I hate being in a car for that long," but when we are together, we're having this conversation. It accelerated that for us. It facilitated that. So when we start looking at people, events, time-

Trevor Noah 1:12:55 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:12:55 ... our bodies and objects as an accelerant for us to remember who we really are and what we're here to do, then life becomes this journey where regrets don't exist because everything that happened that I didn't enjoy was accelerating me to my growth. And why would I hate something that made me grow? I loved all of it. That one, missing that half, most of the day of school that day, had homework to catch up on-

Trevor Noah 1:13:16 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:13:16 ... 'cause I, I couldn't trade that for the world when I'm sitting with my mom. I often think when I was 10 years old, my mom had just turned, uh, almost 40. She was young. She took the time. She could have hung out with her friends. I'm 43 right now. She could have hung out with her friends, you know?

Trevor Noah 1:13:34 It is weird to think about how young our parents were.

Eugene Khoza 1:13:36 Yeah, but she chose to.

Trevor Noah 1:13:37 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:13:37 She made sure she swapped shifts with someone.

Trevor Noah 1:13:39 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:13:39 She took that shift. She would take me, and then we would hang out. She'd listen to... So I think of those times, and I go, "If I think of the homework that piled up, and my friends were telling me about the soccer match that they had after school," blah, di, blah, and I'm thinking about the time I laid in the grass with my mom in the park, and I'm like, "I couldn't swap that for the world." Now I appreciate the effort she put into making sure that she accelerates my growth. By feeling that

Eugene Khoza 1:14:00 little bit of pain of homework catch-up-

Trevor Noah 1:14:02 Mm-hmm

Eugene Khoza 1:14:02 ... she accelerated me in knowing who I really am. I love nature. I love being on the out- at the outside. I love being at the park. I love laughing. I love dreaming and just lying there and looking up and having a good time. So when I look at my life in my late 30s and 40s and I look at my life in my tens, and I'm like, "There was always grass."

Trevor Noah 1:14:20 Hmm.

Eugene Khoza 1:14:20 "There was always a park." I was at Burgerspark, a park in Pretoria that's derelict, and I got to spend time in the most prestigious park in the world that people dream of going to, and I got to lie in the grass there and daydream again about my life. And things that I thought of three years ago in that park, I have them now.

Trevor Noah 1:14:35 Hmm.

Eugene Khoza 1:14:36 So I, I'm not wrong. Somewhere, somehow, there's energy that's vibrating towards helping me get to where I'm going.

Trevor Noah 1:14:42 What do you, what do you do when you feel disconnected from that? 'Cause I, uh, maybe, and maybe I'm wrong-

Eugene Khoza 1:14:49 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:14:49 ... maybe I'm even projecting, but I think one of the things I've noticed you and I both share is there'll be moments where we feel disconnected from that, and then it's like we don't wanna go outside-

Eugene Khoza 1:14:58 Exactly

Trevor Noah 1:14:58 ... and you don't wanna be part of the world, and you don't wanna see the thing-

Eugene Khoza 1:15:00 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:15:00 ... and you don't... You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:15:01 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:15:01 How do you, how do you get back to that?

Eugene Khoza 1:15:03 I look at pictures. Phones are the greatest invention ever. I look at places that I've been to, and I remember the feelings that I had there. Then I go, "What is the quickest way I can replicate this if I can't go there?" Then I'll find a patch of grass, and I'll find a park. Then I'll find sunshine. I'll wear my walking shoes, and I'll start walking for kilometers and kilometers and put on a podcast.

Trevor Noah 1:15:21 You got walking shoes?

Eugene Khoza 1:15:22 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:15:22 What are they?

Eugene Khoza 1:15:23 Adidas shoes, but I use them for walking.

Trevor Noah 1:15:25 They're just walking shoes?

Eugene Khoza 1:15:27 No, they're running shoes, but I use them for walking.

Trevor Noah 1:15:29 Oh. I thought it's like this is-

Eugene Khoza 1:15:30 No, no

Trevor Noah 1:15:30 ... all they can do.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:30 No, when, you know when-

Trevor Noah 1:15:31 Like if someone chased you, you're like, "Hey, buddy."

Eugene Khoza 1:15:33 When I look at- [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:15:33 "You chose the wrong day, man."

Eugene Khoza 1:15:34 Oh, snap. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:15:35 Oh, man. I got my walking shoes on.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:38 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:15:38 Oh, I would've gotten away from you.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:40 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:15:40 Ooh-hoo-hoo-hoo. Oh, man.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:42 So when I, when I look at those and I put them on, I know I'm gonna walk now, and I know what, what that means to me and what I'll remember. The thing that we do worst in our lives is not to remember. We must remember. You and I have memories between us. We don't have anything physical.

Trevor Noah 1:15:58 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:59 Nothing at all, but we have memories. We go, "Ah, that guy. There was this time when we did this. [laughs] " Then we laugh. Then we move on to other people and other things, and then after that, we remember things that they did-

Trevor Noah 1:16:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not wrong

Eugene Khoza 1:16:08 ... and then we come back to the memory again.

Trevor Noah 1:16:10 You're not wrong.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:10 Remember that thing. So that's all I have. So when I feel I dive deep into that hole of suffering-

Trevor Noah 1:16:16 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:16:16 ... then I realize it's self-imposed. My bike is outside. My thing is there. My daughter's in the other room.

Trevor Noah 1:16:22 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:22 My, my PlayStation. So I go, "Why are you choosing this?" And I go, "Yeah, but, yeah," but I go look at my sneakers, and I go, "I can wear those to go outside right now," and it's within my grasp and reach. And I tell you now, whenever I walk, I see the cars that I love. I see the... I see a Porsche 911 work- driving vroom by, and I'm going, "If I was in my room, I would never seen this. Is this a coincidence?"

Trevor Noah 1:16:42 There's a, um-

Eugene Khoza 1:16:43 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:16:44 So there's a, a French philosopher.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:47 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:47 He talks about luck-

Eugene Khoza 1:16:49 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:16:49 ... and the surface areas of luck.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:51 Wow.

Trevor Noah 1:16:52 Right? So I know I'm gonna butcher some of it, but I remember it for the most part. Essentially, what he talked about, and this was, like, a long time ago.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:59 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:00 But what he talked about was how luck is always happening.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:03 Mm-hmm, mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:04 It's continuous, okay?

Eugene Khoza 1:17:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:06 However, there are different types of luck that you can choose to participate in.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:11 I love that. I love that.

Trevor Noah 1:17:11 And so he said the first type of luck is dumb luck. Pure chance. Has nothing to do with you.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:18 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:19 And that luck is who you were born to, when you were born, where you were born, what you look like, what... There's certain things where it's like, hey, man, this-

Eugene Khoza 1:17:28 Things that are outside of your control

Trevor Noah 1:17:29 ... completely outside of your control.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:30 Okay. Dumb luck.

Trevor Noah 1:17:31 You were born in the Philippines. Okay, you were born in the Philippines. You were born in Estonia. Okay, you were born in Estonia. That's it.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:39 Right? That's like a dumb luck. Then the second type of luck that he talks about is luck of motion, and this is where things start to get interesting. So he goes, "There's luck that happens to you merely because you start moving."

Eugene Khoza 1:17:54 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:55 Right? Both literally and figuratively. There's luck of motion. So if you lie in bed all day, you can never bump into somebody by chance in the mall, on the street, in a rest- none of it.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:08 Motion.

Trevor Noah 1:18:09 Motion.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:10 P- yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:18:10 Now, but now remember-

Eugene Khoza 1:18:11 Of course

Trevor Noah 1:18:11 ... it's very important to, to, to, to remind people and my s- myself all the time, so I go like, "Remember luck can be good or bad."

Eugene Khoza 1:18:18 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:18 So I'm not saying this is, like, a good thing. I'm just saying it is.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:20 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:20 Right? Because if you don't get out of bed, you can never stub your toe.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:24 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:25 Right?

Eugene Khoza 1:18:26 Like that, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:18:27 So it, it goes-

Eugene Khoza 1:18:28 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:18:28 ... both ways. As soon as you start to increase your motion, there is going to be a higher probability of luck happening in your life.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:35 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:35 So you've created your luck.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:36 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:36 And lucky people generally are people who try and facilitate more motion in their lives because they consider themselves lucky.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:43 So you'll go, "Why did you buy a raffle ticket?" "I'm a lucky kinda guy." Then another person's like, "Ah, I don't have any luck. That's why I don't even bother buying it." But that motion sets in place the effect that you then experience. Then you have the third one, which I think is, like, a luck of awareness. They have different names for it, but luck of awareness.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:03 And that one is literally what you... Ironically, you see, let's say you, you did your motion. You left your house.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:09 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:09 You went outside. The Porsche drives by.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:12 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:12 So you got to experience the Porsche, right?

Eugene Khoza 1:19:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:14 Wrong. You experienced it because of what? You were aware it was there.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:19 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:20 Do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:19:20 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:20 So now you go-

Eugene Khoza 1:19:21 I see it

Trevor Noah 1:19:21 ... "Wow, I'm so lucky that a-"

Eugene Khoza 1:19:22 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:19:22 ... "Porsche drove by, and a Porsche is my favorite car." Yeah, but you're also lucky because you were aware of it. If you were walking around with your head in your phone and headphones on, now you weren't aware of what was happening. So there's some people who go, "I'm so lucky to have such great people in my life."

Eugene Khoza 1:19:37 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:37 Yes, but you have to be aware that you have great people in your life, otherwise you are not gonna be lucky to have great people in your life.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:42 That awareness. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:43 Awareness is one of the key ones, the awareness of luck. And that, again, that awareness can go the other way. If you are aware of the negative more than you are aware of the positive-

Eugene Khoza 1:19:52 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:19:52 ... you will feel like you have terrible people in your life, you have terrible things happening to you. There is... You live in a terrible country. Like, you know what I mean? Like, people like that. I'm amazed, by the way, when I travel the world-

Eugene Khoza 1:20:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:20:03 ... at how n- regardless of where I go, there are some people who think they're living in the greatest country ever, and some people who th- think they're living in the worst country.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:09 In the same country.

Trevor Noah 1:20:10 Doesn't matter where I go.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:11 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:11 I've talked to Americans who say, "This is... Oh my God, I can't believe... I'm so lucky to be in America. I mean, have you seen this country?" And then I talk to Americans who are like, "I can't... I mean, this is the worst country. I wish I could live anywhere else." Then I'm like, "W- so the two of you are in the same place. What are you aware of that the other one isn't? Or what are you choosing to be aware of?" So that's the luck. You've got dumb luck.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:32 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:32 Lack of motion.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:33 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:34 Lack of awareness.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:35 Awareness.

Trevor Noah 1:20:35 And then the last one, this reminds me of you, is lack of uniqueness or lack of specialization. And this is a luck that'll only happen to you if you choose to engage in something that requires an active and specialized thought.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:50 You are way less likely to meet Lionel Messi-

Eugene Khoza 1:20:54 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:20:55 ... if you are not in football. Do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:20:59 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:21:00 Not saying you will or won't-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:00 Mm, mm

Trevor Noah 1:21:01 ... but I'm saying you're way less likely-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:02 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:21:02 ... to meet Lionel Messi-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:04 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:21:05 ... if you are not in football.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:21:08 You are way less likely to meet a Supreme Court Justice of the United States if you are not in law. Less likely.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:14 Trevor Noah is less likely to meet Eugene Khoza if they're not both in comedy.

Trevor Noah 1:21:18 Comedy was our uniqueness.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:19 Mm. Can, can I add something else-

Trevor Noah 1:21:20 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:21:20 ... to your dumb luck? Uh, when I came back from PE two years ago, I found this place on the internet without even looking. Uh, without even viewing it, I just moved in. We just moved from the beach house.

Trevor Noah 1:21:30 The place you live in now.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:30 Yeah. Yes. And then you bought the house-

Trevor Noah 1:21:33 Right

Eugene Khoza 1:21:33 ... 12 minutes away from me.

Trevor Noah 1:21:34 Yeah. Dumb luck. But no, that wasn't dumb luck-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:36 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:21:36 ... funny enough.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:36 That's true.

Trevor Noah 1:21:36 That was luck of motion.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:38 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:21:39 Because you-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:39 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:21:39 ... you, you chose a place.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:40 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:21:40 And I chose a place.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:41 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:21:42 But the last one-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:43 And led you here

Trevor Noah 1:21:43 ... to your point, the most important one, was you... Even us, Ryan, if you think about it.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:46 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:21:46 Like comedy.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:47 Comedy.

Trevor Noah 1:21:48 We've chosen to, like, like hone in on this thing like a... You know, I remember, I remember telling Dave Chappelle, we, um... We were... I think it was, like, his 50th birthday where, where this happened, 50th birthday or one of the other shows. And any time Dave is performing somewhere and I can go, I'll go. And then Dave loves comedy, and he loves comedians. So Dave says to me, he's like, "Yo, are you jumping on?" And I was like, "No, I'm not jumping on." And he's like, "Why not?" Then I was like, "Dave, I'm not jumping on 'cause I didn't come to do comedy. I came to watch comedy. And more importantly, I came to watch you as Dave Chappelle."

Eugene Khoza 1:22:20 Mm. "I'm here to enjoy the show."

Trevor Noah 1:22:21 Then he's like, "No, but you gotta jump on. You gotta jump on. Come on. Why, why you not jump?" And he was like... And then I, I, I had to, like, think about it hard, 'cause he, he didn't, he sort of didn't understand. He was like, "Do you not wanna jump on 'cause it's my show, dude?" I was like, "Are you crazy? What are you..." Then I realized what it was.

Eugene Khoza 1:22:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:22:34 I was like, "Dave, you, you have to understand that I also love this thing-

Eugene Khoza 1:22:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:22:40 ... beyond me doing it so much, that getting to come and, like, appreci- 'cause I see how much you love it."

Eugene Khoza 1:22:45 Mm. I derive joy.

Trevor Noah 1:22:46 So if I come here and do the comedy, some of my awareness is dulled because I'm thinking of myself.

Eugene Khoza 1:22:52 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:22:53 I'm thinking of my jokes. I'm thinking of my point of view-

Eugene Khoza 1:22:55 What I look like

Trevor Noah 1:22:56 ... my performance.

Eugene Khoza 1:22:56 Yeah, was I dressed for this? And-

Trevor Noah 1:22:57 All of it. I'm thinking... Like, I'm thinking of me, and now I get to miss-

Eugene Khoza 1:23:01 You

Trevor Noah 1:23:02 ... you as Dave Chappelle. I get to miss arguably the greatest comedian of, like, our generation because I just wasn't aware, because I was-

Eugene Khoza 1:23:10 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:23:10 ... I was self-aware. You know what I mean? [upbeat music] Don't go anywhere-

Eugene Khoza 1:23:14 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:23:14 ... 'cause we got more What Now? after this. [upbeat music]

Eugene Khoza 1:23:24 Those steps that you've just mentioned, what I would do before this conversation now, I would club them all together into motion.

Trevor Noah 1:23:30 Okay, got it.

Eugene Khoza 1:23:31 I would, I would look at it as I did something, and they did something, and then we did-

Trevor Noah 1:23:34 Got it

Eugene Khoza 1:23:34 ... something happened.

Trevor Noah 1:23:35 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:23:36 I wouldn't look at it as the way that you broke it down. It makes so much sense now.

Trevor Noah 1:23:39 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:23:39 And I also feel like we've become lazy to dream. I think, um, most, most of us, that's, that's the one thing we have for free, our imagination, our dreams. Just lay back and just think of what you want, and it will appear in front of you. And I learned this weird concept. I was telling this friend of mine, I said, "Everything that I've had, that I enjoyed and that I acquired immediately, was I never put time to it." I said, "I have this thing, and I, I'm gonna... I, I have it now, and I can't wait to t- to touch it and feel it." And that thing happened. But there's things that I've always put far ahead in my life, and I said, "Yeah, one day, one day, one day, one..." 'Cause I've been nonspecific about what I want, the thing keeps becoming a dream. And I said, "I'm, I'm very aware that also that can be an addiction on itself, postponing your own joy, success, and happiness-

Trevor Noah 1:24:24 Oh, damn

Eugene Khoza 1:24:25 ... into the future." Because somehow you feel like you yourself, you're undeserving, you're not worthy, you're not ready. So you keep saying, "One day I'm gonna make a lot of money. One day I'm..."

Trevor Noah 1:24:33 Damn.

Eugene Khoza 1:24:33 "What's a lot of money?" And then you keep saying that-

Trevor Noah 1:24:36 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:24:36 ... 'cause you don't want to be s- because you wanna commit yourself to it, you know? Same way I don't write my set down, there's things I'd never want to commit myself to. And I, now I'm specific. If I want to see a 911, a red one, I'll say it to myself, and I'll see a red one. And I'll see it twice in a day, and I'll be like, "Yeah, I saw it," because now I'm aware. Now you've made me aware.

Trevor Noah 1:24:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:24:53 It is my awareness that's heightened.

Trevor Noah 1:24:55 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 1:24:55 But I also was in motion.

Trevor Noah 1:24:56 And uniqueness.

Eugene Khoza 1:24:57 And uniqueness.

Trevor Noah 1:24:57 You see?

Eugene Khoza 1:24:57 And I was specific.

Trevor Noah 1:24:58 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:24:59 And I also get specific about what I want. So I'm learning that now recently, that I must be specific with what I want. I, I even see it in the, in my mind's eye.

Trevor Noah 1:25:08 Can I, can I tell you why-

Eugene Khoza 1:25:09 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:25:09 ... what I think it is, though?

Eugene Khoza 1:25:10 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:25:10 So I argue that most of the time the reason we're not specific with what we want-

Eugene Khoza 1:25:17 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:25:17 ... is because we do not know what we want. I believe that- All of us as human beings, we do not know what we want

Eugene Khoza 1:25:25 Hmm

Trevor Noah 1:25:26 I think we know what we don't want, but we don't know what we want

Eugene Khoza 1:25:28 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:25:28 And I think if you live life thinking you know what you want-

Eugene Khoza 1:25:31 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:25:31 ... you're going to find yourself constantly disappointed when you get there and realizing that it is not doing what you thought it would do

Eugene Khoza 1:25:38 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:25:38 Right? So all of us grow up, uh, you're a young boy, maybe some girls as well-

Eugene Khoza 1:25:44 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:25:44 ... depending on society, whatever. You go, "I want a Ferrari when I grow up." But nobody has ever sat us down to say, "Why? Why do you as a four-year-old who has never paid any bill in your life think you want a Ferrari?"

Eugene Khoza 1:25:58 Doesn't even know how to drive. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:25:59 What do you... Why do you think you want a Ferrari?

Eugene Khoza 1:26:01 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:26:02 Then, "Well, 'cause, 'cause it's fast and, and because it's... 'cause it's red and because..." It's like, "Yeah, but why? What, what are all those things gonna do? What, what is it that you..." And then what happens in life? Boys grow into men-

Eugene Khoza 1:26:16 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:26:17 ... who then work to get towards something. Girls grow into women who work towards something-

Eugene Khoza 1:26:21 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:26:21 ... and then they get the thing. They get the Ferrari. They get the wedding. They get the big house.

Eugene Khoza 1:26:26 The job

Trevor Noah 1:26:27 They get the job

Eugene Khoza 1:26:28 The salary

Trevor Noah 1:26:29 They get all these things.

Eugene Khoza 1:26:31 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:26:31 And then what happens? There's a deep emptiness inside you, and that deep emptiness is the realization that the thing that you want has not made you feel like you thought it would make you feel because you never had it.

Eugene Khoza 1:26:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:26:43 So how would you know that it would make you feel that way?

Eugene Khoza 1:26:45 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:26:45 'Cause you've never had it. And this is the thing that I literally realized this for my life, and then I, I challenge my friends and anyone I talk to about this. They'll go, "Man-

Eugene Khoza 1:26:54 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:26:54 ... I, I really want that thing." Then I go, "Why do you want it?" "No, because, you know, if I can... Man, if, if I can get that job," then, then I go like, "Okay, then what'll happen?" "I'm just gonna... Then I'll feel like my life is..." Then I'm like, "You're lying. You're lying. Do you know how I know you're lying? Because you've never had the job, so how do you know that the job will make you feel that way?"

Eugene Khoza 1:27:11 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:27:13 We all want to feel a certain way, but we don't know what the thing is that will complement or help us feel that way.

Eugene Khoza 1:27:21 100%.

Trevor Noah 1:27:21 We don't know.

Eugene Khoza 1:27:22 That's what brings me, um, to the initial subject that we started with when I said when we hang out with people that have normal jobs.

Trevor Noah 1:27:30 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:27:31 Because we get to experience their milestones from the outside. So when someone... That's why I said to you when someone looks at a car and says, "That's a nice car."

Trevor Noah 1:27:38 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:27:38 You and I remember a time when they looked at another car and said, "Nice car."

Trevor Noah 1:27:42 Oh, yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:27:43 When we hear them going, "Ah, I can't get off because of..." But we... You and I remember a time when they wanted the gig.

Trevor Noah 1:27:49 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:27:50 But now... Yeah, what-

Trevor Noah 1:27:51 I hope I g- I hope I get this job

Eugene Khoza 1:27:52 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:27:53 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:27:53 So that's why I said, [laughs] you see it's coming full circle. That's, that's where I find when I'm with friends that have structured normal jobs, that's where I get to measure what people's needs really are versus what they want are.

Trevor Noah 1:28:07 Hmm

Eugene Khoza 1:28:08 Because they wanted this thing so bad, they dreamt about it. They, they knew if they reached this level and get this kind of a job and position, this is what it means. But when I'm with them, they're, "Ah, I don't have the time for this anymore. You know how much things here cost." The thing that they dreamt about the most.

Trevor Noah 1:28:21 You know, it's so funny. You are... I mean, I've never said this to anyone because it would be weird, but you are one of the reasons I left The Daily Show.

Eugene Khoza 1:28:30 Shoo, I'm sorry. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:28:34 [laughs] Not. Is it because you knew how he felt about people with jobs?

Eugene Khoza 1:28:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:28:40 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:28:44 Oh, Ryan. What an evil man. [laughs] I'm sorry.

Trevor Noah 1:28:47 No. You, you, you're one of the re... You know why.

Eugene Khoza 1:28:49 Hmm

Trevor Noah 1:28:50 It was a conversation you and I had many years ago, maybe like 10 years ago, somewhere there.

Eugene Khoza 1:28:55 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:28:56 And you said to me, again, as usual, we're in a car, we were driving somewhere, and you said, "Make sure you learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you." And I was like, "What?" And I was like, "Yo, this is deep." 'Cause, like, we were going to buy Nando's or something.

Eugene Khoza 1:29:10 [laughs] Probably.

Trevor Noah 1:29:11 Then I was like, I was like, "This is a strange... Is this, like, a euphemism for are you telling me you're not gonna pay? What, what is happening here?"

Eugene Khoza 1:29:15 [laughs] Probably.

Trevor Noah 1:29:17 And then you said, "No." You said, "You must learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you." And I was like, "What are you talking about?" And oftentimes you'll say crazy things to me, and I'm like, "We're friends," so I just listen.

Eugene Khoza 1:29:25 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:29:27 But when you, when you broke it down, you said, "If you have never starved yourself-

Eugene Khoza 1:29:31 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:29:31 ... you do not know what is it like to starve. And so when you are starved by somebody else or a situation, you will now be panicking because you don't know what it is like to starve." You know what I mean? So you... To use, like, a, a silly analogy, if you lift weights-

Eugene Khoza 1:29:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:29:50 ... the day you need to lift something, you are familiar with lifting as a concept.

Eugene Khoza 1:29:55 Yes, muscle memory

Trevor Noah 1:29:55 Yeah. You've lifted things to yourself. You've made yourself lift heavy things. So now when you have to lift a heavy thing, you know how to lift a heavy thing, and you, you're not like, "Ah." You... It might still be heavy, but at least you know how to lift things, right? And when you said that to me, it stuck with me, and we talked a little bit more about them, we talked a little bit more about it. And I remember when I was going to leave The Daily Show, the thing that stuck with me was how very few people considered the notion that I could want something that wasn't what was supposed to be wanted.

Eugene Khoza 1:30:32 Hmm

Trevor Noah 1:30:33 People were like, "But why would you leave The Daily Show?"

Eugene Khoza 1:30:36 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:30:36 Then I was like, "Yeah, it's... And it's a beautiful thing." They're like, "Yeah, but why would you leave?" Then I'm like, "Well, why do I leave a park? I go to a beautiful park."

Eugene Khoza 1:30:44 Beautiful. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:30:46 "But now what? You s- so you want me to just live at Central Park now?" "Yeah, but it's so stunning."

Eugene Khoza 1:30:50 I would. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:30:52 There are people. You say that.

Eugene Khoza 1:30:53 I think you would.

Trevor Noah 1:30:55 But you, you're like-

Eugene Khoza 1:30:55 Thank you

Trevor Noah 1:30:56 ... "Yeah, but-

Eugene Khoza 1:30:56 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:30:56 ... just because it's beautiful doesn't mean that it never has to end." You know, coming back to what you're saying about endings.

Eugene Khoza 1:31:01 Yes. Yes

Trevor Noah 1:31:02 Like, literally, I'm not even joking.

Eugene Khoza 1:31:03 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:31:03 You taught me that, like, in so many ways. I was like, "Yeah, but when, when does it end?" And it does... I'm not saying it, you have to do it to make it end.

Eugene Khoza 1:31:10 No, no

Trevor Noah 1:31:10 But it's like, yeah, but when does it end? And it was so interesting having some of the c- some conversations with people at The Daily Show, some people who I said to them, I said, "So are you gonna be here forever?" And then they would just look at me and go Oh, well, actually. And some people were honest enough to say, "Well, actually, there's this project that I was actually gonna leave and I'm thinking of doing." So I'm like, "So you too, at some point, are gonna leave." Even like a viewer, there's some people who will say, "I used to watch the show all the time. I really loved you on it. Why did you leave?" Then I go, "But you used to watch."

Eugene Khoza 1:31:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:31:43 "When did you stop?"

Eugene Khoza 1:31:43 You left.

Trevor Noah 1:31:44 Then they go, "Well, I stopped after the pandemic, and then, but I loved the show." Then I'm like, "Yes, but you stopped watching, and you didn't now hate me. You just-"

Eugene Khoza 1:31:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:31:50 ... stopped watching, and that's beautiful.

Eugene Khoza 1:31:52 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:31:53 So if you are able to acknowledge and understand that things are gonna start, things are gonna end, things are gonna be in between, like, like why? Because if you, if you're not careful, you're no longer aware.

Eugene Khoza 1:32:08 Mm. You're numb.

Trevor Noah 1:32:10 It was... Can I tell you, I'm eternally, eternally grateful. Bro, I, when I think of The Daily Show, I go like, man, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, and I've told you about.

Eugene Khoza 1:32:20 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:32:20 It's like you wanna talk about pain.

Eugene Khoza 1:32:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:32:22 One of the hardest things I've ever experienced in my life, and also one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever, ever had in my life.

Eugene Khoza 1:32:30 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:32:31 But to stay in it beyond the pain now just turns it into, like, a suffering.

Eugene Khoza 1:32:39 Suffering

Trevor Noah 1:32:39 Now-

Eugene Khoza 1:32:40 No, you're choosing this pain. Suffering now.

Trevor Noah 1:32:41 You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:32:42 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:32:42 Uh, I think it was actually Letterman. I think it was Letterman who, who said in his, in his farewell, this is when he was announcing that he was leaving. It's like they say in this business, you know, you, you gotta know when it's time to move on. You gotta know when it's time to leave. And, and, um, for me, that day came, and I stayed 15 years longer.

Eugene Khoza 1:33:03 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:33:03 And, uh, today I'm announcing that I'm leaving. But I... Like, and it was such a... It was a good joke, but it was like, it's a poignant thing that not many people could, like, really-

Eugene Khoza 1:33:10 100%

Trevor Noah 1:33:10 ... But I, I connected to that. I was like, oh yeah, man.

Eugene Khoza 1:33:13 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:33:14 It can end, and how many of us can truly say that we have exercised our choice to end-

Eugene Khoza 1:33:20 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:33:20 ... the thing when we could end the thing?

Eugene Khoza 1:33:22 Mm. When we wanted to.

Trevor Noah 1:33:24 Because most of the time, life is doing things for you.

Eugene Khoza 1:33:26 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:33:26 When does the ride end?

Eugene Khoza 1:33:27 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:33:28 Oh, when it ends. They tell you to get off a rollercoaster.

Eugene Khoza 1:33:30 Mm. You... They're like, "Please." They're like, "Hey, man, get off." So you never get to choose to end a rollercoaster ride. Uh, they tell you that the restaurant is closing, so you don't get to choose to, like, walk out when you want to walk out. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:33:41 Uh, sorry, we need this table.

Eugene Khoza 1:33:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:33:42 They tell you the movie's over. You don't get to choose. Netflix tells you the season is finished. You don't choose. And if you look at it-

Eugene Khoza 1:33:47 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:33:47 ... we're experiencing fewer and fewer opportunities to choose-

Eugene Khoza 1:33:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:33:51 ... when to end a thing and when to begin a thing.

Eugene Khoza 1:33:53 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:33:53 Which is a weird, beautiful blessing to have because there's one thing we don't choose, when to end and when to begin, and that's life. You don't choose when your life is gonna begin, and you don't choose, for the most part, when your life is gonna end. And so in, in like a... Genuinely, that's one of the things that you've always... Like, I've always looked at you like a crazy person, but in a good way. I always think my friends, genuinely, most of my friends I think are crazy for different reasons.

Eugene Khoza 1:34:18 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:34:19 But I've, I looked at you and I go, "This, this guy's crazy. Why did he do... He just... So he walked away. So he stopped that. So he's not doing that. So he's not do..." And you're like, yeah, it is crazy only because it's not normal. But it's not crazy because it doesn't make sense.

Eugene Khoza 1:34:34 People react to extremities all the time, 'cause people want to feel. People don't know that they want to feel something. When they watch a football match, they want to feel something. They want to feel joy or disappointment. There's two teams playing.

Trevor Noah 1:34:45 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:34:45 There's... When people, when-

Trevor Noah 1:34:46 There's nothing worse than a boring goalless draw.

Eugene Khoza 1:34:49 Yes. When people come to your show, they wanna feel something.

Trevor Noah 1:34:51 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:34:51 Sometimes they think it's laughter, but it's not. It's actually getting to know the person next to them. They want to be around normal people and hear normal conversation. People want to feel. So when people that are, are seen as outliers are reacting towards the universe from what they're feeling on the inside as individuals, the whole spectrum of people that they know gets to feel something simultaneously.

Trevor Noah 1:35:14 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:35:14 So when you are acting on something that you're feeling inside as an individual-

Trevor Noah 1:35:18 Yes

Eugene Khoza 1:35:18 ... as Trevor, around people, myriads of them that know you that you don't know-

Trevor Noah 1:35:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:35:23 ... when you're acting on your feelings, it ripples towards everyone else that knows you. You don't have to know them. And then they start feeling something. They feel disappointment. They feel anger. They feel like you're being ungrateful because they're in places where they're feeling something they don't wanna... They are suffering. When are you going, "No, the pain of knowing that you will feel this way is worth it for me because staying was suffering." As an individual, I had to make this decision to have this pain so I can end the suffering, so I can walk towards something else. So we get to feel that from other people. A lot of people felt it. I was lucky enough to be around at, at The Daily Show on your last week, and I could see the reaction of how it made people feel. I could feel the rumblings of the audiences before the take started to happen.

Trevor Noah 1:36:08 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:36:08 I could sit with you at the office well before you went on the show, then we got to walk in the streets and go have food, and all I knew was you made the right decision. And I wish people that know you and I could know you the way I know you because they would know that that what you did came from a good place. I knew that you take care... you took care of the people that worked closely with you, and some people that will never know that you took care of them in that space, in that job, in that particular environment. You left an everlasting legacy of kindness, of working together, of having everyone have a voice.

Trevor Noah 1:36:38 Yeah, I hope so. Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:36:39 I was, I was in one of your writing sessions, and I would feel, like, the energy say, "Something!" And then you would be like, "Yeah, say. But if you don't wanna also say or can also not say." But that's the culture that you bred. But those are the things that people are gonna queue up and tell you about. That's what you must know innately inside of you as a human being, that my reactions are always gonna cause a ripple effect to people that know me that I don't know, but they're only reacting towards who I am, not what I am.

Trevor Noah 1:37:06 Hm.

Eugene Khoza 1:37:06 'Cause you've changed what you were. You were a host, but who you are is Trevor. You've changed what you were, a boss, but who you are is a friend. You've changed all of those things, and of course there was gonna be suffering. There was gonna be suffering from people don't wanna let you go, but you let them go first-

Trevor Noah 1:37:22 And we-

Eugene Khoza 1:37:23 ... because we are teaching them.

Trevor Noah 1:37:24 A lot of what you guys are speaking about are just... A lot of them touch very similar to, like, Buddhist principles-

Eugene Khoza 1:37:30 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:37:30 ... of, like, non-attachment, living in the now

Eugene Khoza 1:37:35 Without worrying too much about the future and how thoughts of suffering-

Trevor Noah 1:37:40 Yes

Eugene Khoza 1:37:40 ... are suffering. It's suffering.

Trevor Noah 1:37:42 It is suffering.

Eugene Khoza 1:37:43 So even if, if you're not suffering, you're thinking about suffering-

Trevor Noah 1:37:45 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:37:45 ... you're, you're suffering. But I think the, the main one that you guys are speaking about that's like the same thing over and over is the thought of non-attachment.

Trevor Noah 1:37:53 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 1:37:53 So non-attachment to the job, you know, non-attachment to, to, to, to financial things and worldly things and-

Trevor Noah 1:38:01 Or titles.

Eugene Khoza 1:38:02 Or titles. Uh, you know, a lot of what you guys are speaking about, I think, is non-attachment.

Trevor Noah 1:38:07 You know, you know, one of-

Eugene Khoza 1:38:08 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:38:08 ... one of the, one of the biggest lessons I learned in processing leaving The Daily Show-

Eugene Khoza 1:38:13 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:38:13 ... was when I'd have conversations with people on the outside a- and on the inside, but I realized something that we oftentimes haven't been taught.

Eugene Khoza 1:38:21 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:38:23 To go back to the beginning of our conversation about loss and life, we haven't been taught that things will end.

Eugene Khoza 1:38:31 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:38:31 And we haven't been taught to say goodbye in a healthy way.

Eugene Khoza 1:38:35 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:38:36 So what we do is we wait for the thing to be gone, then we start saying goodbye. Like, I'm eternally grateful to my mom-

Eugene Khoza 1:38:47 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:38:47 ... and to my gran for fully preparing me for the fact that my gran was going to die.

Eugene Khoza 1:38:54 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:38:54 Even though she wasn't on her deathbed, it was like, "Hey, man, it's imminent." And my gran would even joke about it. But now it meant that while we were talking, we were saying goodbye, and we would say goodbye like a goodbye. Like, "Hey, man. Okay, Gogo. Speak [speaks foreign language] . I'm going back to New York. Okay, bye. Bye, Trevor. Okay, bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. I might not see you again." Now you're like, "Damn." You know, you're like, "Eh." Now you almost wanna be like, "Don't say that." It's like, "But why? I might not see you again." Because if you learn how to say goodbye when the thing is still there, you get to say goodbye as opposed to always regretting that you never got to say goodbye.

Eugene Khoza 1:39:32 Starve yourself.

Trevor Noah 1:39:33 Yeah. And I think about this with, with, like, all of it. I go... I think about, like, even us as people in relationships, you know? Like, how many of us are guilty of feeling that something is fading for another person and not saying goodbye?

Eugene Khoza 1:39:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:39:51 Instead, letting the thing die in front of them and not... You get what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 1:39:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:39:56 Because we, we just, we haven't been taught that.

Eugene Khoza 1:39:58 Yeah. Relationship, objects.

Trevor Noah 1:40:00 Like, l- think about companies.

Eugene Khoza 1:40:02 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:40:02 What have they taught people? What have companies taught people?

Eugene Khoza 1:40:04 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:40:04 No, you must say goodbye when you cannot work anymore.

Eugene Khoza 1:40:06 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:40:07 The company will retire you.

Eugene Khoza 1:40:08 When it doesn't want you anymore.

Trevor Noah 1:40:09 Yeah, but why don't you retire the company?

Eugene Khoza 1:40:11 Mm. You can't afford it. You can't afford to starve yourself. You're not taught loss.

Trevor Noah 1:40:13 Yeah. Why don't, why don't you buy your company a pen and say, like, "Hey, man. Congrats on having me for 10 years. I'm out."

Eugene Khoza 1:40:19 I like that. Buy the company a pen.

Trevor Noah 1:40:21 Yeah. Why, what, what is-

Eugene Khoza 1:40:22 [laughs] That's funny

Trevor Noah 1:40:23 ... but think, just think about how we've been taught it.

Eugene Khoza 1:40:24 That's a good one.

Trevor Noah 1:40:25 You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:40:25 Yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 1:40:25 And b- by the way, it's actually interesting how, like-

Eugene Khoza 1:40:28 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:40:28 ... like, have you seen how emotionally reactive people get to people who choose, like, suicide?

Eugene Khoza 1:40:35 Of course.

Trevor Noah 1:40:35 Like, like assist... And I'm not saying, like, sad suicide.

Eugene Khoza 1:40:37 Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 1:40:37 You know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:40:37 Assisted suicide.

Trevor Noah 1:40:38 'Cause I think there's a difference between, like, people who are experiencing, like, a deep depression or they feel like the world is ending. And, and someone has said it beautifully, like, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Uh, that's a different thing.

Eugene Khoza 1:40:49 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:40:49 I'm talking about somebody who goes, "I have terminal cancer."

Eugene Khoza 1:40:51 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:40:52 Have you seen how, how allergic people are to, yeah, euthanasia? How, like, how allergic people are sometimes. "Uh, no, you, you..." And it's like the person goes like, "Hey, man. I have a terminal illness. I'm still able to move. I'm still able to laugh. I'm still able-"

Eugene Khoza 1:41:07 And I'm enjoying these things.

Trevor Noah 1:41:08 "And you know what, guys?"

Eugene Khoza 1:41:09 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:41:09 "I've had a great time. I'm out."

Eugene Khoza 1:41:10 Had a good run.

Trevor Noah 1:41:11 Yo, people are like, "No, how dare you? Uh, you've got to fight, and you've got to this," and they go like, "No, no, no, no, no."

Eugene Khoza 1:41:18 I'm fine.

Trevor Noah 1:41:19 "I've got to say goodbye, and I want you to say goodbye."

Eugene Khoza 1:41:21 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:41:22 "And I want you to see me like this." Now, but the reaction that people give them-

Eugene Khoza 1:41:25 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:41:25 ... man. And I understand it both ways, by the way. I don't think one is wrong or right, but I understand it. I understand somebody going, "No, I want to say goodbye when I'm ready." But to your point, and I know I'm guilty of this, sometimes you'll never be ready because you, you're not practicing saying goodbye. You haven't starved yourself.

Eugene Khoza 1:41:44 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:41:45 And so if you haven't practiced it, and if you don't know how to say goodbye, you'll never be ready, because then when are you ready for somebody to die?

Eugene Khoza 1:41:52 Always.

Trevor Noah 1:41:53 Do, but do you get what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 1:41:54 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:41:55 You're never ready.

Eugene Khoza 1:41:56 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:41:56 And then when it happens, you then now experience the thing, and now you, now you're at a gravestone going like, "I didn't say goodbye. I wish I could have said this. I wish I could've said this," or, you know? So it, it's really weird how literally you're one of those people who, where I go like, "Yeah, no, Eugene, if there's one thing you taught me in life, it's like, yo, man, practice saying goodbye."

Eugene Khoza 1:42:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:42:17 And I think unfortunately, and in some ways fortunately because there's silver linings, I guess, life has, like-

Eugene Khoza 1:42:24 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:42:24 ... really amplified the lesson that you've taught me through the losses you've experienced.

Eugene Khoza 1:42:29 Mm. How did that last day feel? Did it feel like a, you're walking out and you could come back again anytime? Did it feel like you've walked out of this door before, or did you know you're leaving that chapter behind?

Trevor Noah 1:42:46 The, the week my grandmother died-

Eugene Khoza 1:42:48 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:42:48 ... was the first and only week I've canceled shows at The Daily Show.

Eugene Khoza 1:42:56 In the seven years?

Trevor Noah 1:42:57 Yeah. I had an appendix surgery. I came back to work. I missed one day of work, came back post-surgery. I've had knee surgeries. I've worked, you know, you name it, through the pandemic, all of it. My grandmother dying was the first time I canceled shows at The Daily Show. And I'll never forget, like, when I said, "Hey, man, we're canceling the shows," the network said, "Okay, we'll, we'll do, we'll do, we'll get the correspondents to host." And then I was like, "No, we're gonna cancel the shows." And they said, "E- e- we understand that you're grieving, but, uh, yeah, we're gonna..." Like, in a weird way, like, the show must go on. And I remember thinking my grandmother came on and did an episode for The Daily Show. Like we needed an episode. We were in South Africa. My grandmother welcomed us into her house and she's not even that kind of person. But it was amazing to see. I was like, "These people..." I was like, "She's part of this thing. I'm not just the one mourning. The Daily Show has to mourn this thing in some way." Because it was a part of it.

Eugene Khoza 1:44:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:44:07 You know? And so y- that all happened and I'm, I'm at home and I was crying like I've never cried in my life.

Eugene Khoza 1:44:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:44:16 And, and then everyone came over. Yo, and I'll never forget this. Uh, David Kibuka came over, Joseph Opio came over, David Maya came over. Friends from, one from America, one from Uganda, one from South Africa.

Eugene Khoza 1:44:29 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:44:30 And they all came over to the house. Eugene, we sat there and I cried r- and then we laughed harder than I've, I can ever remember laughing in my entire life. We laughed talking about families and funerals and death and, you know, grandmothers and like we... Yo, man, we laughed and cried and laughed and like you, you don't even understand. And I, I remember the feeling that I was having in that moment was a feeling of deep gratitude that I had got-

Eugene Khoza 1:45:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:45:03 ... to experience this human being who was my gran.

Eugene Khoza 1:45:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:45:09 And in a similar way that definitely didn't have the same level of profoundness, I felt that on the last day of The Daily Show. There are few things more blessed in this life-

Eugene Khoza 1:45:26 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:45:26 ... than being able to grieve when something is still around. Because grief is unprocessed joy. It's all rushing into you at the same time.

Eugene Khoza 1:45:36 Mm. Mixed emotion.

Trevor Noah 1:45:38 It's all... Beyond mixed, dude. It's all of it at the same time.

Eugene Khoza 1:45:41 All of it. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:45:41 It's every smile, every hug, every kiss, every laugh-

Eugene Khoza 1:45:44 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:45:44 ... every meal, every-

Eugene Khoza 1:45:45 E-

Trevor Noah 1:45:45 It's all coming in at the same time. And that's why your body feels that I feel is like it, it's, it's, it's all of it at the same time.

Eugene Khoza 1:45:51 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:45:52 Every hug, every ki-

Eugene Khoza 1:45:52 Prompted by one motion.

Trevor Noah 1:45:54 Yo, man. One.

Eugene Khoza 1:45:54 Which is death. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:45:55 One. One thing happened and now it all comes to you at the same time. But do you know how wonderful it is to experience that when the thing is still alive? Do you know what I mean?

Eugene Khoza 1:46:05 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:46:06 That's what I got to do with The Daily Show. The show didn't get canceled. I didn't get fired. What a beautiful way to, to move on.

Eugene Khoza 1:46:16 You're still healthy.

Trevor Noah 1:46:17 We got, yeah, we got to grieve it, but still be there. We got to... You know, it's, it's, it's that phrase which I, I, I, I... It's always stuck with me and I love it. I go like, "Man, I wish we could all attend each other's funerals while we're still alive." Because then what would we say?

Eugene Khoza 1:46:31 While I'm here.

Trevor Noah 1:46:32 What, how would we connect? You know how many people you're gonna see at your friend's funeral that you didn't connect with because you were just like, "Eh." But now at the funeral you'd be like, "Hey, man, we should, we should get that drink."

Eugene Khoza 1:46:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:46:43 "Hey, man, we should... Why don't we hang out anymore?"

Eugene Khoza 1:46:45 Those are the things that you would say.

Trevor Noah 1:46:47 "Why didn't we..." That's exactly.

Eugene Khoza 1:46:47 Wish we...

Trevor Noah 1:46:48 But why don't we have a funeral while the person is still alive? Now we're gonna go there and tell the person how we feel about them. Now we're gonna tell a funny story about how wonderful they are as a person and the stupidest thing they ever

Trevor Noah 1:47:00 did. Now we're gonna connect with each other. But why, why do we only wait for death to remember life? And so it's not impossible. It's not impossible. I just think it's hard because as you say, we get lazy. We, we, we're taught we don't have to do it. We, we've been sold this idea that it's not... You never... I- it'll come, it'll... No, but, like, genuinely, I go try it.

Eugene Khoza 1:47:21 You know, we had this type of conversation, but not e- obviously in this depth. While we were standing there, you came back and we were standing at, at your place and then, and then I looked at the shoes by the door and I was like, "Why are there so many shoes here?" And then you looked at me and you said, "Eugene, people are not supposed to walk in with shoes in this house."

Trevor Noah 1:47:38 [laughs] This is my place in New York.

Eugene Khoza 1:47:40 Yeah. [laughs] Then I was like, "Oh," as I looked at my feet and I saw my shoes on my feet. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:47:49 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:47:51 And it's, it's just that you know this obviously personally, I'm, I'm a very private person on social media.

Trevor Noah 1:47:58 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:47:58 I don't put out my life. But if there's one th- and if there's one thing that I wish people knew about you, a few things, how n- nice you are as a human being.

Trevor Noah 1:48:09 Oh, shucks. Thanks, Eugene.

Eugene Khoza 1:48:10 Um, how, how generous you are as a person, and I'm talking about your time, and how loving you are to everyone. Because I think us all as your friends, you know our stories personally.

Trevor Noah 1:48:24 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 1:48:25 As your friends, we don't feel like we are part of a group. Everyone feels like they know you and you know them. And at, when I s- experienced you at work... Remember, I know you from Horror Café. I know you from your polo. I know you from tracksuit, gray tracksuit pants, running to the airport and going to start a new life and a new career.

Trevor Noah 1:48:43 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:48:44 And then I get to see the same guy at this, at the helm of this huge instit- what became an institution in American pop culture, and I see the same guy who asks the PA, "Have you eaten? Is there something that I can do? Did you order that thing? Is that thing... Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Good night." And I see you doing that and I'm going, "I wish people could see this and know this about you, how nice and caring of a person you are." I've never caught you on a bad day. I, they have never caught you on a bad day. You are a genuinely nice person, and I always, whenever I think of what we are going to do when you say, "Let's hang out," I always go, "I know what I'm going to get here." There's, if there's one thing that's gonna happen here, is I'm gonna experience generosity, kindness, not a bad word about anyone, and just pure-

Trevor Noah 1:49:31 Some bad words

Eugene Khoza 1:49:32 ... pure childlike joy. And you know, people around you will never have less of that ever as long as you're still here and the day you're gone, because we're all gonna go at some point. But this is what you must know about yourself. ... is you have it in you. It's not a thing that you earned through money, through fame, through success. You were born into it. You ... That's why your grandmother asked you to lead a prayer. She saw something in you that a lot of the world was soon to see, and she just wanted you to take center stage and claim it.

Trevor Noah 1:50:02 Mm.

Eugene Khoza 1:50:02 That there's an inner power in you that makes people gravitate towards you, that make people go, "I believe in what you're saying." And a lot of what you're experiencing is because of that. You were groomed to be the person of a shining beacon. You bring your friends together. You brought an office together. And now here you are, bringing all of us together, and these people will get to hear what I have to say because of you. So you must be proud of yourself. When you go to bed, when you're closing your checking account, like I usually do-

Trevor Noah 1:50:27 Mm

Eugene Khoza 1:50:27 ... tick that one thing off. Be proud of yourself for being a nice and kind person who has no bad word to say about anyone.

Trevor Noah 1:50:34 Damn, Eugene.

Eugene Khoza 1:50:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:50:35 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:50:36 I mean it.

Trevor Noah 1:50:36 [laughs] You know, it's funny. You just made me realize why I wanna do this series of my favorite people-

Eugene Khoza 1:50:42 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:50:42 ... is literally because of what we said.

Eugene Khoza 1:50:44 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:50:45 It's like, one, people often ask me why I am the way I am.

Eugene Khoza 1:50:49 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:50:49 Then I go like, "I'm not the way I am."

Eugene Khoza 1:50:51 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:50:52 "I'm just a manifestation of the way we are, and the we is all the people in my life."

Eugene Khoza 1:50:57 Correct.

Trevor Noah 1:50:57 You know? So I go, "You can't watch my comedy and not know Eugene Khoza."

Eugene Khoza 1:51:01 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:51:02 You know what I'm saying?

Eugene Khoza 1:51:02 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:51:02 You can't see how I think about life and not see Eugene Khoza. You can't ... Like there's ... And everyone in my life has that in a different way.

Eugene Khoza 1:51:08 Absolutely.

Trevor Noah 1:51:09 Do you know what I'm saying? But you, like ... Yeah, man, you bl- you blessed me again, 'cause you, you've, like, clearly given me an idea of, like, why. 'Cause I knew why I wanted to do this, but I didn't know, like ... Or rather, I knew what I wanted to do. I myself didn't know, like, the why, and I think this is, this is the why. Thank you, my friend.

Eugene Khoza 1:51:30 Thank you.

Trevor Noah 1:51:31 This is dope.

Eugene Khoza 1:51:32 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:51:33 Now let's go say some bad words about people. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:51:36 I just wanna know, I know we've, we've shouted out Buddhism here-

Trevor Noah 1:51:39 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:51:40 ... but we haven't shouted out Dab-ism.

Trevor Noah 1:51:42 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:51:42 He was the first one who taught us to say goodbye.

Trevor Noah 1:51:44 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:51:46 Dab taught us to say goodbye.

Trevor Noah 1:51:47 [laughs] Bye.

Eugene Khoza 1:51:48 And he-

Trevor Noah 1:51:49 Bye

Eugene Khoza 1:51:50 ... he's, he's here with us now in the room.

Trevor Noah 1:51:51 Bye. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye. [laughs] Damn, man, this was dope. Thanks, Eugene. [upbeat music]