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What Now? With Trevor NoahThe Totally Very Real White Genocide in South Africa w/ Dan Corder & Eugene Khoza - What Now Podcast
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Chapter summaries
Setting up the white genocide claim
After joking banter with Eugene, Trevor and Dan set up the topic: a claim of white genocide in South Africa that spread worldwide and then faded. Trevor describes watching it grow into international news.
- •Trevor recounts how the story crossed into international news and prompted journalists to investigate
- •People abroad wrote asking if he was safe
- •Trevor asks how a worldwide conversation started about something that is not happening
How the narrative spread from grifters to the White House
Dan explains that a group of talented grifters pushed the idea without stating it outright. Social media amplification then carried it to Elon Musk and Trump's executive order, because the right loves a white victim.
- •Public figures stop short of saying 'white genocide' and let anonymous accounts go further
- •Musk's reposts carried the claims all the way into the White House
- •Dan argues Trump and the right love a white victim and used South Africa as a distraction on bad days
Victimhood, apologies and the Afrikaner lobby
Trevor asks why the campaign started and when Eugene first heard of it. Eugene says the former oppressor is playing victim and has never apologized, despite being well organized. Trevor notes he has never met a South African who admits supporting apartheid.
- •Eugene first heard of the claim this year and saw no sign of it in his neighborhood
- •Eugene says Afrikaans community groups organize collectively to claim they're being killed but have never collectively apologized
- •Trevor says he can't find anyone who admits having supported apartheid
- •The label of victimhood is often worn by perpetrators, and Clinton's administration gave visas to white South Africans before the 1994 election
Do white South Africans feel targeted? Zuma, the Rainbow Nation and coded language
Trevor asks whether white South Africans privately think they are targeted. Dan says many do, and ties the shift to the post-2010 decline under Zuma, which gave grifters fodder. They discuss how crime and corruption become synonyms for Black.
- •Dan says many white people fear losing privilege as Black people become middle class
- •He describes the Rainbow Nation brand collapsing after 2010 with state capture and service delivery failure
- •Trevor says Black people can separate an action from the culture of a person, while others use synonyms
- •Crime, corruption and 'township' are described as code for Black
Teaching apartheid history and the TRC
The group laments that young South Africans don't know the TRC or apartheid's details. Trevor explains why the TRC is regarded as a gold standard of peaceful transition, while Dan and Eugene note its conditions and the incomplete follow-through.
- •Dan wants history taught through matric and a revised syllabus
- •The TRC offered amnesty for truthful, sincere disclosure
- •Eugene says Black people returned to townships after the hearings while white beneficiaries returned to suburbs
- •Eugene says Model C schools required Black kids to adopt the culture of those they weren't supposed to dislike
Leon Schuster, integration and the privatization of safety
A tangent on Leon Schuster leads Eugene to discuss integration. He argues white-owned businesses benefited from state failures, such as solar installers during blackouts and private security. Trevor adds that Black South Africans must reassure white people they're safe.
- •Trevor says Schuster's pranks exposed how people behaved when they thought no one was watching
- •Eugene notes the first time he saw a non-white person win against a white person was in a Schuster film
- •Eugene says blackouts created more white millionaires through solar installation
- •Trevor says Black South Africans, even President Ramaphosa, must start by reassuring white people they are safe
The 1996 census, restitution and the unfinished apology
Dan describes the 1996 census revealing apartheid's disparities and the ANC's early housing delivery. Eugene's quote about forgiveness preceding guilt leads Trevor to a relationship-therapy analogy about why apologies aren't enough. The Mbeki pronunciation example illustrates unearned trust.
- •Dan says the first census of all South Africans came only in 1995/96, revealing huge disparities
- •He credits the RDP housing rollout as record-breaking before delivery declined
- •Eugene shares a quote that South Africa is what happened when forgiveness was given before guilt was admitted
- •Trevor compares it to infidelity, where the person must keep showing they haven't forgotten the transgression
- •Trevor says younger generations treat names and Black heroes very differently
White economic empowerment, welfare and the compound-wealth argument
The talk moves to BEE versus the apartheid-era system of white-only benefits. Dan lays out Afrikaner welfare and public works, and Trevor recounts a conversation with a South African in London about starting from scratch.
- •Eugene says tenders and economic empowerment existed under apartheid for white people
- •Trevor says systems like welfare excluded Black people without explicitly saying so, using public pools as an example
- •Dan describes apartheid-era grants and public works that only hired white people and proposes calling it 'WEE'
- •Trevor challenges the 'start from scratch' idea by asking whether his London interlocutor would give up his own wealth
Death threats, race traitors and the white-team mentality
Trevor asks why white people get so angry at white people who speak out. Dan says the most threatening thing to a white supremacist is a white person who disagrees, and that 'race traitor' attacks reveal a view of races as teams, which also shows up in Cape Town versus Joburg talk.
- •Dan says white people listen to white people more instinctively
- •Online hate in his comments is personal attack rather than counterargument
- •Being called a race traitor shows the accuser sees races as teams competing
- •Cape Town and Joburg are used as racialized shorthand
White vouchers, inequality statistics and who is actually safest
Eugene recalls how Black comedians needed white agents to vouch for them, then cites stats on wealth, health and life expectancy. Dan says white men are the safest group in South Africa while Black women are the most vulnerable.
- •Black performers had to be vouched for by white comedians or agents
- •Eugene says white people outlive and outearn Black South Africans
- •Dan points to early childhood malnutrition as a driver of stunting
- •Dan says white men are the safest because of infrastructure, and Black women the most vulnerable
Exposure, dehumanization and freeing the guard
Trevor explains that the 'flattening' of people comes from lack of exposure, using a study on how Asians look alike to unexposed people. He applies this to white flight and perceptions of crime, and recalls Mandela on Robben Island saying oppression must free the guard too.
- •Perception of sameness across a group is a matter of exposure, not inherent ability
- •After white flight, white South Africans often interact with Black people only in fleeting service or crime situations
- •Mandela befriended Robben Island guards, who then treated prisoners differently
- •Trevor says being hijacked is tied to owning things, which ties back to benefit from the earlier system
- •Eugene says Tsotsi won an Oscar by playing into stereotype
School exposure programs and shared empathy through Eskom
Trevor recalls being in the first generation to attend integrated schools, including a program of weekend home stays. Dan then suggests service-delivery failure, especially Eskom, creates shared empathy across races.
- •Trevor was in the first generation to attend school with other races
- •White kids who stayed with Black classmates returned stunned by how they lived
- •Dan says service delivery failure can unite South Africans
- •Trevor likes that Eskom is nameless and not a stand-in for Black
Farm murders branding and crime that doesn't discriminate
They discuss the Tutu moment at the TRC and the expulsion of the white refugees, then turn to the term 'farm murders'. Eugene and Dan argue it implies white owners, and Trevor describes crime as indiscriminate, citing Shrien Dewani.
- •Eugene says the biggest TRC victory was seeing authoritarians told to sit down and answer
- •Trevor says right-wing branding like 'farm murders' is effective
- •Dan says most farm victims are laborers and that rural crime reflects class dynamics
- •Eugene says robberies on farms often target firearms
- •Trevor says crime affects everyone but white men are least affected
Bafana Bafana, national pride and Trevor as 'Captain South Africa'
Trevor says the national football team's fortunes mirror the country's mood, and Dan agrees sport shapes national self-worth. Dan asks what it is like to be seen as South Africa's Captain America; Trevor says he doesn't believe the hype and credits the many people behind any figure.
- •Trevor blames Bafana Bafana for dips in national mood and says rugby wins are sometimes seen as white wins
- •Dan says sporting results reflect how the country feels about itself
- •Dan says people expect Trevor to defend South Africa to Trump and Musk
- •Trevor says individuals are part of a larger team, citing Mandela and MLK
- •Trevor recalls his mother picking up litter, saying 'If I'm not gonna clean it, who's gonna clean it then?'
Media bias, unpaid TRC compensation and a closing message
Dan says media obsess over white victims, citing Thabo Bester versus Oscar Pistorius, and reveals many TRC victims still haven't received awarded compensation. Eugene discusses distraction and bravery in speaking out, and the show closes with jokes about refugees and Trevor thanking Dan.
- •Dan says news audiences were historically white, so Black suffering needs to be horrific to make headlines
- •Dan says TRC-awarded compensation is still unpaid in 2025
- •Eugene says South Africans are kept distracted online and often miss things like by-elections
- •Dan says people will trust speakers who consistently say what they think
- •Trevor says the issue is a people issue, and the group riffs on how refugees don't look like the claimants
