Jung Chang (Wild Swans author) — Living through history's largest man-made famine

And my father spoke up against Mao's policies. He was arrested, tortured, driven insane. And my mother was under tremendous pressure to denounce my father. She refused, and my mother was made to kneel on broken glass, um, she was paraded in the streets where children spat at her and threw stones at her. The desire to write never left me. So in the following years, when I was working as a peasant, and as a barefoot doctor, as a steel worker, and an electrician, I was always writing in my head with an imaginary pen.

Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing Jung Chang. Her first book, Wild Swans, has sold over 15 million copies worldwide. The US diplomat, George Kennan, described the Gulag Archipelago, he said, "This is the greatest and most powerful single indictment of a political regime ever to be leveled in modern times." And when I read that quote, I realized this is exactly how I describe your books. Um, Wild Swans obviously, but also your biography of Mao, titled Mao: The Unknown Story, both of which we'll talk about today. Um, it is a true honor to speak with you.

Thank you very much for having me.

So w- we will get into Mao and his atrocities in a second, but let us begin by, w- would you mind laying the scene for us? What was it like? Y- you grew up under, in China, under Mao. L- let's begin there, what was it like as you, as you started to grow up during this time?

I was born in China, in Sichuan, in 1952. So I grew up under Mao. Um, when I was a child, I led quite a privileged life because both my parents were communist officials and we lived in this compound with, um, uh, you know, servants, cooks, drivers. It was very class-driven society and I grew up so much taking, um, class and privilege for granted, that when I first came to Britain, I thought Britain was wonderfully classless. (laughs) And my, of course my views were slightly modified over the years. Um, and then in 1966, when I was 14, Mao launched his cultural revolution which was his Great Purge. And my father spoke up against Mao's policies. Um, so as a result, he was arrested, tortured, driven insane. He was exiled to a camp and died, um, tragically and prematurely. My mother was under tremendous pressure to denounce my father. She refused. As a result, she went through over 100 of these ghastly denunciation meetings, which were everyday features in China at the time. And basically the victims, uh, were put on the stage and their arms were ferociously twisted to the back and their heads were pushed down, um, they were kicked and beaten and my mother was m- once made to kneel on broken glass. Um, she was paraded in the streets where children spat at her and threw stones at her. Um, but she survived. And today, she still lives in Chengdu, at age 92. My family was scattered and I was exiled to the edge of the Himalayas and worked as a peasant and then as a barefoot doctor, uh, which was a doctor basically without any training, because Mao had said, "The more books you read, the more stupid you become." So schools were closed, you know, books were burned. Um, I mean China was literally a cultural desert without books, cinemas, theaters, museums for ten years. Um, and um then I became an electrician, and again there was no training so I had five electric shocks in one month. (laughs) Um, and then in 1973, mm, partly, if you know, after Nixon's visit to China, mm, I mean, uh, but more, more also because for the internal political reasons, and universities have began to reopen and I was able to get into Sichuan University to learn English. Uh, but you know, our teachers had never seen foreigners themselves, because China had been closed to the outside world after the communists took power in 1949. So our textbooks were written by these teachers who'd never been abroad. I remember the first lesson was long live Chairman Mao.