The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)

I think one of the biggest misconceptions around Jobs to Be Done is this notion that it's pain and gain as opposed to context and outcome. When you hear somebody's story and it seems irrational, like we'll have people go, "Oh, my God. That's an anomaly. That doesn't happen." But what, what you realize is that the, the context makes the irrational rational. So the moment you hear a story and you go, "I can't believe that," nine times out of 10 it's because you don't have the rest of the story. And so part of it is being able to understand the rest of that context that would drive somebody to say, like, "Why would somebody cut their arm off?" Well, if they're in this situation and this and this and this, like, there's nobody who would say they want to cut their arm off. But in certain situations, you'll do it. And so that's what we're trying to do is find where will people change behavior?

(Instrumental music.) Welcome to Lenny's Podcast, where I interview world class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard won experiences building and growing today's most successful products. Today my guest is Bob Mesta. Bob is the co-creator of the Jobs to Be Done framework alongside Clay Christensen and, as you'll hear at the top of our conversation, is maybe the most anticipated guest I've had on based on the LinkedIn response. Bob has started eight companies and is currently the co-founder and CEO of The Rewire Group and currently spends his time helping companies of all sizes unlock hidden insights and create successful products and services. In our conversation, we get deep into all aspects of the Jobs to Be Done framework. What is it, how to apply it to your product, when it's not a good fit, how to interview customers to get accurate insights into their struggles, plus examples of how Jobs to Be Done works for zero to one products and a ton more. Thank you to everyone who suggested questions and topics for our conversation. Enjoy my chat with Bob Mesta after a short word from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Sidebar. Are you looking to land your next big career move or start your own thing? One of the most effective ways to create a big leap in your career, and something that worked really well for me a few years ago, is to create a personal board of directors, a trusted peer group where you can discuss challenges you're having, get career advice, and just kind of gut check how you're thinking about your work, your career, and your life. This has been a big trajectory changer for me, but it's hard to build this trusted group. With Sidebar, senior leaders are matched with highly vetted, private, supportive peer groups to lean on for unbiased opinions, diverse perspectives, and raw feedback. Everyone has their own zone of genius, so together we're better prepared to navigate professional pitfalls, leading to more responsibility, faster promotions, and bigger impact. Guided by world class programming and facilitation, Sidebar enables you to get focused, tactical feedback at every step of your journey. If you're a listener of this podcast, you're likely already driven and committed to growth. A Sidebar personal board of directors is the missing piece to catalyze that journey. Why spend a decade finding your people when you can meet them at Sidebar today? Jump the growing wait list of thousands of leaders from top tech companies by visiting sidebar.com/lenny to learn more. That's sidebar.com/lenny. This episode is brought to you by Merge. Every product manager knows how slow product development can get when developers have to build and maintain integrations with other platforms. Merge's unified API can fully remove this blocker from your roadmap. With one API, your team can add over 180 HR, accounting, ATS, ticketing, CRM, file storage, and marketing automation integrations into your product. You can get your first integration into production in a matter of days and save countless weeks building custom integrations, letting you get back to building your core product. Merge's integrations speed up the product development process for customers like Ramp, Drata, and many other fast-growing and established companies, allowing them to test their features at scale without having to worry about a never-ending integrations roadmap. Save your engineers countless hours, hit your growth targets, and expedite your sales cycle by making integration offerings your competitive advantage with Merge. Visit merge.dev/lenny to get started and integrate up to three customers for free. Bob, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the podcast.