J.K. Rowling, Trans Athletes & Blackfishing - Leo Kearse
Leo Kearse (guest), Chris Williamson (host)
In this episode of Modern Wisdom, featuring Leo Kearse and Chris Williamson, J.K. Rowling, Trans Athletes & Blackfishing - Leo Kearse explores comedian Leo Kearse Skewers Woke Culture, Trans Debates, and Censorship Chris Williamson and comedian Leo Kearse discuss COVID, trans issues, JK Rowling, cancel culture in comedy, and the broader landscape of identity politics and “woke” culture.
Comedian Leo Kearse Skewers Woke Culture, Trans Debates, and Censorship
Chris Williamson and comedian Leo Kearse discuss COVID, trans issues, JK Rowling, cancel culture in comedy, and the broader landscape of identity politics and “woke” culture.
They focus heavily on tensions around trans rights versus women’s rights, including prisons, sports, and medical transition for children, arguing that extremists and bad-faith actors are harming genuine trans people.
Kearse criticizes institutional and corporate “wokeness” (government policy, media, brands like Sainsbury’s and Ben & Jerry’s) as cynical, incoherent, or authoritarian, likening aspects of it to communism and religious dogma.
The conversation also covers blackfishing, race-based initiatives, women’s sport, and class versus race, with Kearse consistently pushing a free‑speech, meritocratic, and highly provocative comedic stance.
Key Takeaways
Distinguish between genuine trans people and opportunistic self‑identification.
Both speakers argue that people abusing self-ID (e. ...
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Policy on gender and crime should prioritize safeguarding and material reality.
The discussion of Scottish police recording male rapists as women if they self‑identify highlights the need for laws and data categories that protect vulnerable women (e. ...
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Child and teen gender transition requires far more open debate and evidence.
Kearse claims the UK conversion therapy bill could effectively ban exploratory therapy for gender‑distressed youth, pushing them toward blockers, hormones, and surgery despite high desistance rates and serious side effects, and says dissenting researchers are being silenced.
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Trans inclusion in sport raises unresolved fairness and safety questions.
Examples like Lia Thomas (swimming) and Laurel Hubbard (weightlifting) show how male puberty and long-term testosterone exposure can confer lasting advantages, making simple hormone‑based inclusion rules contentious, especially in female and youth competition.
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Corporate and institutional ‘wokeness’ is often more branding than principle.
From Sainsbury’s and Ben & Jerry’s to Nike, they argue many companies adopt anti‑racist or progressive messaging while profiting from dubious supply chains or inconsistent practices, weaponizing social issues for PR rather than genuine reform.
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Race-focused initiatives can obscure deeper class inequalities.
They suggest UK life chances are driven more by class than race, and that an obsession with racial optics (advert casting, segregated ‘families of color’ events) may worsen division while leaving entrenched class privilege largely untouched.
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Cancel culture and pre-emptive self‑censorship are reshaping comedy.
Kearse describes clubs filming sets to protect themselves, complaints leading to de‑platforming attempts, and bookers favoring tokenistic identity casting over funnier but less fashionable acts, which he says flattens risk‑taking and honesty in stand‑up.
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Notable Quotes
“Calling somebody racist or transphobic is like calling them a witch; you can destroy them with it.”
— Leo Kearse
“How much of a cunt would I need to be to not call Blaire ‘she’?”
— Chris Williamson
“This is going to be the thalidomide of our era.”
— Leo Kearse (on over‑zealous child gender transition)
“It’s mad that people bang on about transatlantic slavery that finished 400 years ago, but not about the fact there are more slaves now than at the peak of it.”
— Leo Kearse
“Wokism is similar to communism in that you’re not allowed to say really obvious truths, and everyone has to pretend the lie is the truth.”
— Leo Kearse
Questions Answered in This Episode
Where should policymakers draw the line between affirming trans identities and safeguarding sex‑based rights in contexts like prisons, changing rooms, and crime statistics?
Chris Williamson and comedian Leo Kearse discuss COVID, trans issues, JK Rowling, cancel culture in comedy, and the broader landscape of identity politics and “woke” culture.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
How can therapy and medical practice support gender‑distressed youth without either reflexively affirming transition or being framed as ‘conversion therapy’?
They focus heavily on tensions around trans rights versus women’s rights, including prisons, sports, and medical transition for children, arguing that extremists and bad-faith actors are harming genuine trans people.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
What a fair framework for trans inclusion in competitive sport might look like that balances inclusion, safety, and competitive integrity?
Kearse criticizes institutional and corporate “wokeness” (government policy, media, brands like Sainsbury’s and Ben & Jerry’s) as cynical, incoherent, or authoritarian, likening aspects of it to communism and religious dogma.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
To what extent is contemporary ‘anti‑racism’ and corporate wokeness helping marginalized groups versus deepening polarization and distracting from class inequality?
The conversation also covers blackfishing, race-based initiatives, women’s sport, and class versus race, with Kearse consistently pushing a free‑speech, meritocratic, and highly provocative comedic stance.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
How can comedy and other arts maintain genuine free speech and risk‑taking while still responding responsibly to legitimate concerns about harm and prejudice?
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Transcript Preview
It's mad that- for all the people banging on about slavery. They only bang on about transatlantic slavery that finished 400 years ago and was ended by the British. Nobody bangs on about the fact that there's more slaves now in the world than there, there was 400 years ago at the peak of transatlantic slavery. (wind blows)
Leo Kersh, welcome to the show.
Hello. How you doing?
I'm good, man. I'm good. How's the UK? I'm heading back soon.
Where are you now?
In Austin, Texas.
Oh, really? Yeah, them- I mean, the UK's, the UK's all right. Uh, we've got Omicron going round at the moment. I've got Omicron right now, in case you're wondering why I sound kind of blocked up.
You're kidding.
So, everybody's got it. Like basically, you know, I'm always out doing gigs, doing shows and stuff, doing... I think- I think I might have actually got it at, um, at a TV studio 'cause I went in and everybody had a cold, and Omicron is a cold basically. So, um, yeah, I had, I had coronavirus. I had like the original and best first wave of coronavirus back in, uh, August, uh, and that absolutely floored me. You know what I mean? I was like, "I wish I'd got vaccinated." But, um, that, that was bad. Uh, and Omicron, I mean, it's still bad but it's like a, it's like a cold. It's not like, you know, it's not like making you die.
This is diet Coke.
What? It's diet Coke?
Yeah, it's diet Coke and paired with full fat Coke. So you've got like the big, the big full original hit, and then you've got like the new version without caffeine, without anything else in.
Yeah, which actually makes you fatter-
(laughs)
... because your body thinks it's had sugar and it hasn't, so yeah.
I don't know. I, um, I saw that Omicron seems to be a little bit more transmissible but far less deadly or something? There's only been one person that's died from it so far.
Hugely more transmissible. Three and a half times more transmissible and, uh, COVID was already a very transmissible disease. So Omicron basically, you know, if you're near somebody who's got it, you're probably gonna get it except, you know, sometimes you won't. Like my fiance doesn't, doesn't have it. Um, and, um, uh, yeah, it's a lot less... Uh, it's kind of, it's kind of flat. The hos- the severity of hospitalizations is kind of flat at about 25 to 30%. Um, whereas with the original COVID, uh, the severity started off very low, uh, for like young people, uh, and then rose dramatically for, for older people. So it's up around 85, 90% for, for older people. Um, so this one's less severe overall but slightly more severe for, for young people, which is great 'cause one of the, one of the bad things about coronavirus is like it didn't affect children. So all these annoying little snotty-faced brats running about enjoying themselves. And I think if there's any justice... I mean, I did like how coronavirus went for like the, the fat and the elderly and the vulnerable. You know, it's kind o- uh, what I couldn't believe was like the Tories, uh, the Tories tried to stop it. Like coronavirus is basically enacting Tory policy-
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