Ep #5 | EdTech What’s Broken, What’s Next? With Nikhil, Ronnie Screwvala , Gaurav Munjal & Jay Kotak
Gaurav Munjal (guest), Nikhil Kamath (host), Ronnie Screwvala (guest), Jay Kotak (guest), Ronnie Screwvala (guest), Nikhil Kamath (host)
In this episode of Nikhil Kamath, featuring Gaurav Munjal and Nikhil Kamath, Ep #5 | EdTech What’s Broken, What’s Next? With Nikhil, Ronnie Screwvala , Gaurav Munjal & Jay Kotak explores edTech’s next era: motivation, access, and learning beyond credentials Nikhil Kamath hosts Ronnie Screwvala (UpGrad), Gaurav Munjal (Unacademy), and Jay Kotak (Kotak811) to explore education’s purpose, edtech business models, and what real learning should optimize for.
EdTech’s next era: motivation, access, and learning beyond credentials
Nikhil Kamath hosts Ronnie Screwvala (UpGrad), Gaurav Munjal (Unacademy), and Jay Kotak (Kotak811) to explore education’s purpose, edtech business models, and what real learning should optimize for.
They contrast Unacademy’s “tournament” (competitive exams) model with UpGrad’s workforce-skilling model, arguing outcomes and motivation matter more than content alone.
The panel debates whether online learning can match “real-life” education and elite networks; they converge on peer-to-peer learning, better learning experiences, and more inclusive access as key unlocks.
They critique the fundraising/valuation era, discuss why capital can distort execution, and predict major shifts from AI, gamification, and changing job credential requirements.
Key Takeaways
Edtech is ultimately an outcomes business, not a content business.
Across test-prep and upskilling, the product’s value is judged by tangible outcomes—exam success, job mobility, career progression—so “better videos” alone won’t win without clear pathways to results.
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Unacademy’s core wedge is competitive-exam leverage (“tournament” dynamics).
Munjal argues millions treat exams like UPSC/NEET/JEE as the most reliable route to change socioeconomic status; Unacademy positions itself as coaching infrastructure for those tournaments, with wide price bands from low-cost SSC to premium JEE.
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UpGrad’s wedge is lifecycle learning for working professionals.
Screwvala frames education as wrongly treated as a one-time “calendar event”; UpGrad targets ongoing skilling/reskilling and workforce readiness, where learning experience and application matter more than star faculty alone.
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Peer-to-peer learning is a major next unlock for online education.
Screwvala predicts the biggest change comes from learners interacting and learning from each other—mirroring what makes elite programs valuable—rather than relying on a single “sage on the stage.”
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To scale learning, you must solve motivation, not just curriculum.
Munjal contends most learners don’t learn “for the sake of learning,” so edtech must engineer motivation via clearer incentives, reinforcement loops, and products that feel rewarding (analogous to how games create progression and wins).
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Gamification and storytelling can make learning attention-competitive.
Using Roblox/Minecraft and game design principles, Munjal argues education can become more engaging if it borrows social play, progression tiers, and positive reinforcement; Screwvala adds storytelling is what “hooks” attention and retention.
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Fundraising can distort edtech execution; durability often comes from restraint.
Screwvala warns excess capital can ‘corrupt’ priorities and slow real progress; PhysicsWallah is cited as an example of long-term, frugal building that avoids the hype cycle and creates resilience when markets turn.
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Notable Quotes
“Top three percent of kids get into these good colleges. What about the ninety-seven percent?”
— Gaurav Munjal
“I think I’ve been blessed by not being spoiled with a lot of fundraising.”
— Ronnie Screwvala
“No. I hate balance.”
— Gaurav Munjal
“Today, I’m not looking for problem solvers anymore. I’m looking for problem spotters.”
— Ronnie Screwvala
“Unacademy… we don’t think we are in the education business, we think we are in the tournament business.”
— Gaurav Munjal
Questions Answered in This Episode
Unacademy took “10+ pivots” to reach its 2019 business model—what were the most important pivots, and what data signaled “revenue PMF” versus “views PMF”?
Nikhil Kamath hosts Ronnie Screwvala (UpGrad), Gaurav Munjal (Unacademy), and Jay Kotak (Kotak811) to explore education’s purpose, edtech business models, and what real learning should optimize for.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
If Unacademy is a “tournament business,” what should change in India’s tournament design (exams, admissions, signals) to make outcomes more meritocratic and less dependent on coaching?
They contrast Unacademy’s “tournament” (competitive exams) model with UpGrad’s workforce-skilling model, arguing outcomes and motivation matter more than content alone.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Ronnie says too much capital can slow progress—what specific edtech functions actually benefit from capital (content, distribution, product, AI) and which are harmed by it?
The panel debates whether online learning can match “real-life” education and elite networks; they converge on peer-to-peer learning, better learning experiences, and more inclusive access as key unlocks.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Jay argues access to basics is the bigger problem than quality—what are the 2–3 highest-leverage interventions (like Ronnie’s library example) that measurably lift attendance and learning outcomes?
They critique the fundraising/valuation era, discuss why capital can distort execution, and predict major shifts from AI, gamification, and changing job credential requirements.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Can online programs replicate Ivy-level network effects in practice—what product mechanisms (cohorts, alumni markets, peer assessment, group projects) have worked or failed for UpGrad/others?
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Transcript Preview
top three percent of kids get into these good colleges. What about the ninety-seven percent?
If education was online, can that compete at or compare with real-life education?
I think I've been blessed by not being, uh, spoiled with a lot of fundraising. [upbeat music]
Do you think balance is an important part of being a successful entrepreneur?
No. I hate balance. [chuckles]
I think balance is a very important part of anything.
The opportunity and the way this country is changing-
Yeah
- is a once in a-
Century
- century or more.
Yeah.
Uh, Bill Gates has started this, uh, Windows that has made him a billionaire, and I want to start Doors.
It's kind of cool. [chuckles] [upbeat music] So thank you guys for coming. I think most of you here do not need an introduction, but maybe a good way to start this is, A, how do we all know each other? And, B, maybe talk about ourself for a minute or two, so we just get to know each other a bit more. Would you like to go first?
Um, [clears throat] I'm, I'm the only non-billionaire on this panel. Um, um, I know Ronnie because he runs UpGrad, and, um, uh, I run this company called Unacademy. And, uh, I, I, I don't know, how, how do I know you? How do we ended up-
Bangalore.
I think you have this, uh... Yeah, you were doing a party one day.
Mm.
I got a message, and, uh, Jay, I'm meeting for the first time.
Maybe you can tell us a more creative version of introducing yourself. So don't say what you would say in a job interview, in a college interview, or a TV interview, but tell us what you would tell your friends. Who is Gaurav?
Okay, let me phrase my thoughts.
Have you had a job interview?
Yeah, once. Uh-
Ah, okay.
Well-
It's a good start.
So all of you are like mega brains, okay? Which college did you go to?
So I, I'll, I'll start from the beginning.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, um, I, I was born Bikaner.
Mm.
Uh, and then, uh, father's a doctor. Grew up in Jaipur, uh, middle-class family. Um, but, uh, I think at the age of twelve, I went to my dad and said: "You know, I saw in Dainik Bhaskar newspaper, uh, Bill Gates has started this, uh, Windows that has made him a billionaire, and I want to start Doors." And I was coding at that point- [chuckles] ... so. [chuckles]
It's kind of cool. [chuckles]
At some way, I was- I could have been the poster boy of WhiteHat Jr. because I was, uh... But, but we'll get to WhiteHat Jr. at some point. Um, when I was eleven or twelve, I was aggressively coding. Um, you know, like, like you were interested in elocution, et cetera. I never, um, uh, was into sports. I was into computers, gaming, uh-
Were you a bright child, good marks in school?
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