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Aakash GuptaAakash Gupta

Can SaaS survive the AI era?

Linda Tong is the CEO of Webflow, one of the first companies the frontier labs went after once ChatGPT and Claude could build websites. She walks through how Webflow competes with them and how she'd judge which SaaS companies survive AI. She also answers for Webflow's $4 billion valuation, then shows how her PMs build and how Webflow hires them. Full Writeup: Transcript: https://www.aakashg.com/can-saas-survive-the-ai-era-webflow-ceo-linda-tong/ Timestamps 2:02 - How Webflow competes with ChatGPT and Claude site builders 9:24 - Ads 12:27 - Why Webflow chose to build for marketing teams 19:48 - Which SaaS companies will survive AI 26:10 - Are 2x to 3x SaaS multiples justified? 29:24 - Salesforce going headless and the MapQuest analogy 33:50 - Webflow's $4B valuation and its agentic marketing bet 41:28 - Did Webflow's growth slow, and will it raise again? 45:16 - How Webflow's PMs build now, starting with a PR 55:29 - Why product teams are now half a pizza 57:53 - Why Webflow doesn't hire AI PMs, and how to keep up with AI 1:02:48 - Inside Webflow's PM interview and its final working session 🏆 Thanks to our sponsors AutonomyAI: Turns product managers and designers into product builders who ship changes to the codebase as PRs - https://autonomyai.io/?utm_source=aakash_gupta&utm_medium=referral Land your next PM role, coached live by PM leaders who've hired at Meta, Uber, Microsoft, etc! Sign up at https://www.landpmjob.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign Key Takeaways 1. Most of the work happens after you hit publish - AI can write a site's first version, but most of Webflow's business sits in what comes after, from analytics and experiments to a CMS a whole team can edit. Linda even tells people to start in ChatGPT's site builder and bring the site over. 2. Pick a box the labs aren't building for - Webflow's users had all kinds of titles, but they were using it for marketing. So Webflow went deep on marketing teams with dozens to hundreds of people, a group that probably isn't a frontier lab's first priority. Linda called the decision terrifying. 3. Hold context and governance people won't move - Products that store deep domain context become a center of gravity, and roles and permissions are something few people want to vibe code. A product that's only a UI or API layer over other systems is the one customers can leave fast. 4. Run the total cost before you vibe code it - You can build a tool in an afternoon, but software deteriorates and someone has to keep maintaining it. Webflow calls the customers who learned that the hard way boomerangs, and Linda has seen CMOs come back within about 90 days. 5. Low multiples are part math and part fear - A company growing 50% can earn a 10x multiple, while one growing 10% to 20% gets 2x to 3x, so some of the drop is fair. Linda calls the rest "a hangover of the fear" and points to PE buyers, who only buy when they expect a return. 6. Software has to go from MapQuest to Google Maps - Most SaaS still shows everyone the same static screen on top of decades of features. Linda wants products that adapt to what each person is trying to do, with a context engine that learns so a new agent isn't still an intern 60 days in. 7. Valuations from 2021 and 2022 aren't believable - Webflow raised at $4 billion in 2022 and hasn't raised since. Linda says it has plenty of cash and has run close to break even for a while, so she'd only raise for a specific reason, like a big acquisition. 8. PMs start with a PR, on half-pizza teams - Webflow's PMs code the first prototype, and designers and engineers swarm on it while it's rough. A funded product area is now two or three engineers with a designer and a PM, which Linda jokes is half a pizza. 9. Track the behavior your AI feature should change - Webflow tracks how many customers use its MCP server, and it also tracks publish rate, how often someone comes in and publishes a change. People publish more once they use MCP, and new customers reach their first publish faster. 10. Webflow hires for how you work with a team - It skipped the AI PM title because every PM has to use AI now. After one-on-ones that score things like AI fluency, a final working session with a group decides it, and the number rejected there has been high. 👨‍💻 Where to find Linda Tong LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lktong/ X: https://x.com/YayLT 👨‍💻 Where to find Aakash Twitter: https://x.com/aakashgupta LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aagupta/ Newsletter: https://www.news.aakashg.com 🧠 About Product Growth: The world's largest podcast focused solely on product + growth, with over 200K+ listeners. You can also catch it on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-growth-podcast/id1763555775 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7vVEMqCSKb7I7xPk8xZtg5 🔔 Subscribe and turn on notifications to get more videos like this.

Linda TongguestAakash Guptahost
Nov 2, 20261h 6mWatch on YouTube ↗

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At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Why domain depth, governance, and context may keep SaaS alive

  1. Linda Tong explains Webflow’s strategy against AI site builders by emphasizing that websites require ongoing iteration, collaboration, governance, and post-publish operations—not just initial code generation.
  2. She argues SaaS survival in the AI era favors products with domain-specific depth and stored business context, while companies that are mainly a UI or thin layer over other systems face greater risk.
  3. She frames governance/controls and total cost of ownership as key reasons many organizations won’t sustainably replace SaaS with internally “vibe coded” tools, citing customers who return after failed DIY attempts.
  4. She says SaaS multiple compression is partly justified by slowing growth-rate math and partly driven by prior overvaluation and fear, while pointing to signs of recovery and value recognition through acquisitions.
  5. She describes how Webflow is evolving into a multi-product, agentic marketing platform and how AI has changed its product-building approach toward smaller teams, PR-first prototyping, and faster customer-informed shipping.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Webflow’s moat isn’t generating a site—it’s running and evolving one safely with a team.

Linda Tong argues Webflow’s differentiation is everything that happens after “publish,” including collaboration, permissions, staging, CMS-driven iteration, and the operational needs of teams managing a business-critical site.

Vertical domain specificity plus embedded context is a defense against horizontal AI tools.

She frames a durable strategy as going “vertically deep” in a domain (marketing teams) while frontier labs go broad, then using domain knowledge and stored context to drive better outcomes via analytics, experimentation, personalization, and learning workflows.

Systems with stored business context endure; thin UI/API layers face higher risk.

She says many companies can survive if they are a “center of gravity” for domain context and data people don’t want to move, and she contrasts that with products that are mostly a UI/API layer on top of other systems, which she suggests are more vulnerable.

Governance and control features can be a surprisingly strong moat in the AI era.

She highlights governance—roles, permissions, compliance, security—as a “boring” but powerful advantage because few teams want to build and maintain these controls themselves, even if they can prototype something quickly with AI.

AI makes building easier, but maintenance and TCO drive many teams back to SaaS.

She describes a “boomerang” pattern: teams try to “vibe code” their own solution, then return once they realize software requires ongoing maintenance and operational rigor; she says she’s seen customers come back in about 90 days.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

SaaS is such a broad category. I don't think everything survives, but I do think a mass majority where you're in domain-specific areas and you have deep context, and there is some meaningful amount of data or company knowledge that's stored there, I think you've got an interesting moat.

— Linda Tong

A website is more than just assembling a bunch of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. It's actually thinking about what happens once you hit publish, and that's actually where all the work happens.

— Linda Tong

The problem is everyone's like, "Oh yeah, I could vibe code that in an afternoon." And the answer is, if you vibe code that in an afternoon, like software, just like everything else, it deteriorates over time.

— Linda Tong

Software needs to take that exact same evolution, and I think what's been unlocked now with AI is this concept, like, people are talking about things like malleable software. I think of it as, like, hyper-personalized software.

— Linda Tong

Nowadays, our PMs start with a PR.

— Linda Tong

Competing with AI site buildersPost-publish website lifecycle managementVertical (marketing) specialization vs horizontal AISystems of record and context gravityGovernance, roles/permissions, complianceTotal cost of ownership and “boomerang” customersSaaS multiples compression and market fear/thawing

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