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BigDeal by Codie SanchezBigDeal by Codie Sanchez

Ozempic Expert: They’re Lying To You About Getting Fat | Dr. Tyna Moore

My new book Own Or Be Owned is out now! I wrote Own or Be Owned to answer one question: How do you make more money, less miserably?

Dr. Tyna MooreguestCodie Sanchezhost
Mar 26, 20251h 22mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 2:58

    The State of Humanity: Are We Going Extinct?

    1. TM

      We're in trouble. I think we're going extinct, honestly, as a species.

    2. CS

      I've got Dr. Tyna here, who is a naturopathic doctor, trained both ways, holistically and traditional medicine, and so we get to learn from somebody who's walked the walk.

    3. TM

      Eat more meat, lift weights. Deadlifts fix a lot of things.

    4. CS

      Yeah, you know, you had this quote that I loved, which is, "When in doubt, deadlift." Need to make a big decision but feel unsure? Deadlift.

    5. TM

      [laughs]

    6. CS

      Need to process anger or frustration? Deadlift.

    7. TM

      This is non-negotiable if you wanna age well. You have to move every day. We're primates.

    8. CS

      [laughs]

    9. TM

      We're fancy mammals with opposable thumbs. [laughs]

    10. CS

      You also have some really interesting take on GLP-1s. Are they bad? Are they good? What?

    11. TM

      Perceived... You can over-carnivore yourself into insulin resistance.

    12. CS

      Wow.

    13. TM

      Yeah. Basically it was like, if your girlfriend's telling you to cut your hair off, she's not your friend.

    14. CS

      I actually agree with it. I don't even need to see the science on that.

    15. TM

      [laughs]

    16. CS

      [upbeat music] Hey, and welcome back to The Big Deal Podcast. I'm your friend Codie, and I'm here today to talk about a thing we don't talk about enough. Like, where is the actual science around GLP-1s, like Ozempic, and eating carnivore, and what is right for you based on data, not influencer view count? Then this podcast is gonna be for you. I've got Dr. Tyna here, who is a fascinating human in many regards, first of all, because she is actually a practicing doctor. She's also a naturopathic doctor, trained both ways, holistically and traditional medicine, and so she understands the full gamut. She's also 51 years old, and so she talks a lot about what it means to be a woman and to be a woman through the ages. All right, so without further ado, let's get into it with Dr. Tyna. You know what I wanted to start is basically, one, I was laughing with Gabrielle Lyon because I'm like, "How come doctors are hotter now than they've ever been?"

    17. TM

      [laughs]

    18. CS

      You, her-

    19. TM

      Thank you

    20. CS

      ... Andrew Huberman, amazing. And I think that's actually kinda how it should be, right? Like, if people are healthy, it doesn't mean hot, like you have to look like Kim Kardashian, but, like, healthy and fit and talking to us about being healthy and fit, you should probably look the fucking part. Is that a crazy thing to say, that, like-

    21. TM

      Ah

    22. CS

      ... doctors should also practice what they preach?

    23. TM

      I feel strongly about that. I feel like you have to walk the talk.

    24. CS

      I think your story's really interesting, too, because you weren't always so perfect. And so-

    25. TM

      Hmm

    26. CS

      ... you know, maybe you could talk a little bit about the fact that, like, hey, wherever you guys are, we see you, I see you, because I was you. And now you're 51, you look great-

    27. TM

      Thank you

    28. CS

      ... and you're applying these practices in a way that's like you can be a normal human, too. So maybe talk to us about the pack-a-day situation. [laughs]

    29. TM

      [laughs] Yeah, so we were talking off-camera, I chain-smoked for 10 years, pack a day from 24... I'm sorry, 14 to 24. Don't know why. Probably 'cause I was li- you know, growing up in Oregon, where it rains all the time and it's really depressing and dark. Um, we drank a lot back then. That was like a big drinking culture. I don't think that today's young people are drinking nearly as much, but when I grew up, everybody was drinking, particularly in places where there was nothing else to do. And I wasn't so healthy and fit. I think

  2. 2:58 – 6:09

    The Role of Movement and Strength Training

    1. TM

      as a child, I spent a lot of time doing gymnastics and sports, and so there was some muscle memory there.

    2. CS

      Hmm.

    3. TM

      And then I spent a long swath of time just eating, you know, I call myself a mac- I was a macaroni-and-cheesetarian.

    4. CS

      [laughs]

    5. TM

      I literally was just, "I'm not gonna eat meat," and then I ate just garbage, you know? So I pretty much consumed garbage for a extensive period of time, and then I had my daughter, who's gonna be 25, gosh, in a few weeks. And I remember laying on the couch with a migraine, just feeling awful, and looking at her, and she was a toddler, and she was like, "Mom, come play," you know, "Mommy, come play," and I remember thinking, "I can't be a piece of shit mom." Like, "I can't lay here and be that mom," you know, "when I know better."

    6. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TM

      And by then I had spent time working with my mentor, who was an, a phenomenal naturopathic physician. I knew better, and I wasn't doing it, you know? I was still eating, like, Pop-Tarts and-

    8. CS

      Mm-hmm

    9. TM

      ... I wasn't smoking or drinking then, but I just wasn't doing anything. And so then I spent a period of time kinda w- wafting around, not really sure how to implement. Started naturopathic college, you know, was learning along the way what I was supposed to do even more so, and then I h- was coming upon 50, and I... or I'm sorry, 40, and I was like, "God, I better train for menopause," 'cause when my mom hit menopause it was a train wreck. She went from this beautiful, tiny, little thing to just really having her metabolic health go sideways, and my mentor had always taught me that metabolic health was the crux of everything. Keep your waist circumference low, keep your, uh, muscle c- like, back in the '90s he was telling me to get off the treadmill and start lifting weights.

    10. CS

      Wow.

    11. TM

      In the '90s.

    12. CS

      That was not cool then.

    13. TM

      No. And he told me to quit eating white foods.

    14. CS

      Oh.

    15. TM

      All w- white foods, meaning, you know, starches, carbs. Focus on protein. And so I had been around it. I knew better. I'd been around it for a long time, and finally I was like, "I gotta just walk the talk." So...

    16. CS

      So you basically, you saw your mom go through menopause, and when you say metabolic health, basically what that means is she became quite overwrit- overweight?

    17. TM

      Yes, and then y- you end up in this pre-diabetic state, which is, you know, they call it metabolic syndrome.

    18. CS

      Yeah.

    19. TM

      Which a lot of people are walk- you know, what the last stats, we have 2018 stats that were published in 2021 showing that close to, I think, 94% of US adults have cardiometabolic compromise. So it's this premena- or I'm sorry, pre-diabetes state, this phase one, if you will, stage one, some people call it. And so back then they called it syndromax. It was brand new. Nobody had appreciated it. And so it was this conglomerate of symptoms, and they didn't really know what to do with it, but you stay on that trajectory and you will end up with type 2 diabetes at some point. You just suddenly arrive and your numbers match on labs, and your doctor's like, "Congratulations, you have type 2." Well, that damage has been happening for f- you know, 10, 15, 20 years sometimes.

    20. CS

      Oh, man. Yeah, I saw this thing the other day, and it kind of made me giggle, on the internet. It's like, "When you try to lose weight, you avoid sugar, carbs, seed oils, do 24-hour prolonged fasts-

    21. TM

      [laughs]

    22. CS

      ... and go carnivore. When you want your dog to lose weight, you put less food in the bowl-

    23. TM

      [laughs]

    24. CS

      ... and you walk him more."

    25. TM

      [laughs]

    26. CS

      So, like, what is the answer? Should we- Just eat less and walk more, or is it actually more complex than that for those of us

  3. 6:09 – 9:07

    Understanding Metabolic Health and Insulin Resistance

    1. CS

      today?

    2. TM

      It's all of it. It's both. And this is where the calories in, calories out people wanna fight with the insulin resistance people.

    3. CS

      Right.

    4. TM

      And it's both. And so the way that I like to think about it is we have certain metabolic pathways, and they exist in a counterbalance. Not to get too nerdy, but I... Most simplistically, we have this AMPK, this AMP kinase pathway, which helps get your mitochondria revving. It helps, um, people feel better when they have their AMPK pathway revved up. It also, when too high, can become catabolic, meaning it starts to waste you. This is where I think high-dose GLP-1 comes into being a problem, is it-

    5. CS

      Mm-hmm

    6. TM

      ... it revs the AMPK. On the other side, we have mTOR, and mTOR is, like, your muscle building, um, you, you rev that pathway through strength training and through eating more protein.

    7. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    8. TM

      And when that pathway's too high, and insulin resistance can actually push it, uh, pathologically. When that side's too high, you end up with modern diseases like cancer.

    9. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. TM

      So in my head, it's a balance. So we need to be doing a buffet of all the things.

    11. CS

      God, it's just, it's so annoying. You know, I think for, for people listening today, you're like, "God, I have so many things that I need to do to change my life. I'm just trying to be a little bit fitter. You know, I wanna look a little bit sexier. I wanna have a longer life or a healthier lifespan," but there's so much, and there's so much misinform- information. Like, I saw this, uh, comparison of the historical food pyramid versus a modern-day food pyramid, and I'd be curious your take on it. Basically, the inverted pyramid, which they're calling, like, the low-carb food pyramid, kind of sounds like what your doctor friend was talking to you about, is, like, at the top, so the least amount, we have those high in carbohydrates, you know, starchy vegetables, nuts and seeds, lower, low sugar fruits. And then in the middle, we should be doing a lot of low-carb fruits and vegetables. And then at the bottom, we should be doing the most whole fat, dairy, and proteins, fats and oils, et cetera. Is that right versus the inverse of what we used to be? And is it too simplistic to say that that is right for everybody?

    12. TM

      I think it's too simplistic to say. I think everybody's a little bit different. You can over-carnivore yourself into insulin resistance. High levels of arachidonic acid can send you into insulin resistance as well. So the way that I like to think about it is, A, just eat real food.

    13. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. TM

      Get enough protein. What does that mean? We could go high protein. We could go lower protein. I think it depends on the individual. It, I think it depends on their age. I think it depends on their goals, how active they are, how fit they are. But generally speaking, you know, a gram of protein per pound of body weight is a great goal. So for women our size, I'm, I'm... Sorry. I'm thinking 90 to 120 grams is a minimum goal, and then more if you're, you know, pregnant or you're lifting a lot of weight. Make sure you get a variety of colors in your diet.

    15. CS

      Mm.

    16. TM

      And then as we get older,

  4. 9:07 – 11:53

    Nutrition: The Balance of Protein and Carbs

    1. TM

      understand that we become more insulin resistant, period. As we age as women and we lose our estrogen stores, we become more insulin resistant, period. And the more muscle mass we lose with age and atrophy, because that's just a normal part of aging as we start to atrophy everywhere, that we will become more insulin resistant. So in my head, the goal is always to keep insulin sensitivity going, whatever that looks like. So I've carnivoered myself into insulin resistance.

    2. CS

      Wow.

    3. TM

      So this is the people who say, "I got fatter on carnivore. What's happening?" They're inducing an insulin resistance. Uh, the women who show up in my clinic, and I've been treating them since they were your age, and then all of a sudden they show up and they're more, they're closer to my age, and they're like, "I don't know what happened. This, like, 15 to 20 pounds just showed up. I haven't changed anything," that's low-key insulin resistance.

    4. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. TM

      And it may not even be showing up on labs yet. It, it can be happening at a cellular level, and the symptomology is what I go off of. I don't care what their labs say. If they're exhibiting signs of insulin resistance, i.e. weight, random weight gain that isn't, doesn't make sense, you know, it's not adding up.

    6. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TM

      So there's no reason to make it crazy. We have to move every day. We're human. We're primates. We're fancy mammals with opposable thumbs. [laughs]

    8. CS

      Yep.

    9. TM

      We are a lever system. We are an upright lever system.

    10. CS

      Yeah.

    11. TM

      We are designed to pick up heavy shit and put it down. We are designed to ambulate and walk.

    12. CS

      Mm.

    13. TM

      So, like, it doesn't need to be crazy. I don't know. We get so off track, and I think the Internet's very polarizing, and I think people, you know, create content that's clickbaity so people will follow, but it becomes very confusing for the average person. And I, the same, I have been singing the same song for decades, which is eat more meat, lift weights. Deadlifts fix a lot of things, especially, you know, if you can get yourself heavy. And what is heavy? That is really up to the individual.

    14. CS

      Mm.

    15. TM

      It's different. We probably have a different version of heavy, right?

    16. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    17. TM

      Um-

    18. CS

      Yours is bigger than mine.

    19. TM

      No. [laughs]

    20. CS

      [laughs] I'm sure you lift way more than me.

    21. TM

      So... I think that sleep is critical.

    22. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. TM

      And we as a society have... I think it's coming around, but my generation, it was cool to not sleep. It was like the less sleep-

    24. CS

      Yeah

    25. TM

      ... you could get by on, the cooler you were.

    26. CS

      Totally.

    27. TM

      You know? Um, my generation, Gen X, was raised up on that heroin chic skinny look, so it was like the skinnier you could be. So we all pretty much, like, wasted ourselves away into sarcopenia, walked into our middle age with no muscle, and then wondering why my age cohort-

    28. CS

      What is sarcopenia?

    29. TM

      It's just this... It's, it's muscle wasting. It's poverty of the flesh. That's literally the translation-

    30. CS

      Oof

  5. 11:53 – 15:00

    The Importance of Individualized Fitness Regimens

    1. TM

      heard, you know, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon talk about how the older you get, the more protein you need, the more you need to be focusing on this, which seems unfair. You know, I'm, I'm 50, and I'm like, "Dude, I just wanna chill."

    2. CS

      Yeah.

    3. TM

      "I've been fighting my body my whole life." [laughs]

    4. CS

      Yep. Yep.

    5. TM

      So the key is to not fight the body. Chill the F out because people are... I think women in particular, they think, "Okay, Orange Theory, CrossFit, I'm gonna hit it hard." As we get into menopause, that becomes less, uh, you know- ... it, the success rate goes down there.

    6. CS

      Wow.

    7. TM

      We need, we need, we need stimulation, but I really think in many cases we need to find what works for our bodies and not drive that cortisol. I think the intensity level as we get older needs to be modulated more for the individual.

    8. CS

      So as we get older, as w- or as you get older, as a woman, you should do less Orange Theory, by and large, less intense cardio, and more weightlifting.

    9. TM

      Yes.

    10. CS

      Interesting.

    11. TM

      Yes. And I like strength training because you can, you can gauge it for the individual. You can take longer breaks between sets.

    12. CS

      Yeah.

    13. TM

      You can increase the weight. You can increase the reps. You can play with the tension, time under tension. You can pace the moves so that we're just doing, you know, really slow eccentric and then more explosive concentric. Like, whatever it takes, I think it can be modulated much more for the individual depending on where they're at, what their orthopedic faults are, how old they are, you know.

    14. CS

      That's actually really helpful, because, y- like, my husband, for instance, is a former Navy SEAL, so he's a psychopath like Gabrielle's husband.

    15. TM

      [laughs]

    16. CS

      And he will always say, "Intensity, intensity, intensity." But for instance, you know, for many times, you know, I already have a lot of stress at work.

    17. TM

      Yes.

    18. CS

      And, um, I run, like, at a pretty high stress level as is, and so when I'm in the gym, I like lifting heavy, but I don't love that butterfly in the chest-

    19. TM

      Yep

    20. CS

      ... heavy sprint feeling. And, you know, he would say historically, "Well, that's what you have to do if you wanna get results." And it's interesting, 'cause my body's kind of been like, "Nah, I don't think that's... That's not it for me anymore." But there's actually science that backs that you don't have to go into the gym as you get older and heavy breathe, psychopath, sweating everywhere to have longevity success as a woman.

    21. TM

      I don't, I don't think it's necessary, and I think people will argue across the board. I do think it's important... You know, Dr. Stacy Sims talks about making sure that you get certain levels of intensity in increments. She calls it, uh, sprint interval training.

    22. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. TM

      So you're doing these short increments of high intensity, and then you're resting. And I always say rest as long as you need.

    24. CS

      Mm.

    25. TM

      That might be three to five minutes. It doesn't have to be these short intervals of rest either. And make sure you completely get back to having easy breathing, and then go hit it again. So I might do that on the rower. I might... Or the, I love the Airdyne bike, you know, the assault bike. I will just hit it until I, it... I count to about 20 to 30 before I feel my whole system shaking.

    26. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. TM

      And then I just get off and wander around the gym for a while and, you know, go do something else. I... Men are different than women, and women at your age are different than women in menopause. And so I find when I crank up the intensity too high, I blow up. I just get fatter everywhere, and it's cortisol. It's 'cause I have enough cortisol.

  6. 15:00 – 18:07

    Listening to Your Body: Finding the Right Workout

    1. TM

      My life is also-

    2. CS

      [laughs]

    3. TM

      ... quite stressful, and I end up in this sort of, like, chronic cortisol state where I'm puffy and bloated.

    4. CS

      Right.

    5. TM

      But cortisol's also catabolic. Cortisol chews up your tissues. So if we're cranking cortisol in the gym but we're trying to gain muscle, you can see where intensity needs to be dialed in for the individual, and that's gonna be different for all of us. So I can't work out like Gabrielle.

    6. CS

      Yeah.

    7. TM

      If I tried, I would die.

    8. CS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    9. TM

      I feel like I'm dying. And it's not helpful, and my sleep gets messed up.

    10. CS

      Yeah.

    11. TM

      And I feel like I'm gonna faint when I stand up from a squatted position. Like, my adrenals are like, "No." [laughs]

    12. CS

      So-

    13. TM

      "Do not do this to us."

    14. CS

      How do you know when a workout is right for you or not? How does a woman listening to this go, "Okay, I need to work out more and more intensely. I need to do less"? How do you listen to your body correctly? What's the way to know?

    15. TM

      I think you should feel better when you leave the gym-

    16. CS

      Mm

    17. TM

      ... than you came in. You should feel invigorated. You should feel like you got a boost. You should feel like it's gonna carry you through your day. You should feel like your mood's improved. You should not feel like you want to make a sweat angel on the floor and stay there. And you should not have to go lie down on the couch. Sometimes I do have to go sit in the car for a few minutes after a workout and just kinda, like, recalibrate my nervous system. And then the next day, you should feel better, not worse. You might be a little sore, but you shouldn't feel like, "God, I feel like I got hit with a truck," you know? That's your adrenals saying, "No." [laughs]

    18. CS

      Right.

    19. TM

      "Do not do this." So I think that the intensity level needs to be dialed for the individual. It's really, really important, and we need to consider the implications of cortisol. Because if you're a middle-aged woman, you're stressed out of your mind, you're insulin resistant by nature because your hormones are waning. Now you're trying to do these long intermittent fasts. You're trying to do hardcore intensity training 'cause you're like, "I gotta keep up. I, I could do it 10 years ago." Y- These women come in, they're hitting a wall, and they are literally blowing up. Usually right here is the indication. So-

    20. CS

      Oh, your midsection is an indication of I am actually working out incorrectly and eating incorrectly, and it's not just that I should just walk more and eat less.

    21. TM

      Yes. The walking's great always. I think it's nice and calm. You know, walking keeps you... It keeps your sen- We want to hone the central nervous system, and the way I think about the central nervous system is we wanna hit it to get a hormetic impact, meaning hormesis is, for the listeners, is just this concept of strategic intervals of stress. And then the key to hormetic stress is to rest the organism after-

    22. CS

      Mm

    23. TM

      ... and refeed.

    24. CS

      Mm.

    25. TM

      So we wanna hit it. So you might leave a... You know, like, maybe you PR'd your deadlift that day, and you know what that feels like. So have you ever cried after-

    26. CS

      Yeah, for sure

    27. TM

      ... pe- Like, it's not 'cause you're happy. It's 'cause your nervous system just went... Right?

    28. CS

      I thought I was happy, but now- [laughs]

    29. TM

      Well, you are, but, like, you're crying, and you're like-

    30. CS

      Yeah

  7. 18:07 – 20:58

    The Impact of Stress and Cortisol on Health

    1. CS

      I just think that's so beautiful because, you know, if you're listening out there and you feel like everybody's always telling you to do more and to keep going, and you're not enough, and, you know, yes, you should be rich, and you should be happily married, and you should have two kids-

    2. TM

      [laughs]

    3. CS

      ... and you should have great girlfriends, you should also have a six pa- six-pack-

    4. TM

      Right

    5. CS

      ... you just need to know that that's ridiculous, and it's okay to not have all of that at once. In fact, that would be ridiculous to have all of that at once. And also, I think it's so liberating to know, yeah, we need to move more probably. Yeah, we need to eat a little bit less maybe. Maybe a tiny bit less drinking. But al- also, there's some real things out there where it's not always just do more.

    6. TM

      And you gotta lift.

    7. CS

      You can actually do less. Yeah.

    8. TM

      Like a drink might act- and I'm not like saying go drink, but a glass of wine to celebrate might actually lower your cortisol and allow you to have a happier homeostasis inside your body. Think of it that way. We're always trying to go towards homeostasis, so if you're trying to work out with your husband and you're trying to keep pace and you're like, "I don't feel right," then listen to that. Go do something else, you know?

    9. CS

      Yeah.

    10. TM

      Maybe you just go... You go lift slow and heavy, and you get a couple sets in and you're like, "I'm good." My husband the other day was watching me work out, and he came over. He's like, "You're done." Like, he could just see it. I started shaking, and my form was falling apart, and he's like, "You're done. You've had a stressful week. We're done. We're leaving." So I think that's important.

    11. CS

      I like this husband of yours.

    12. TM

      He's, he's downstairs.

    13. CS

      [laughs] Oh, is he?

    14. TM

      He's probably playing with your dog.

    15. CS

      Oh, I can't wait to meet him.

    16. TM

      [laughs]

    17. CS

      I brought my husband to work today, too. [laughs]

    18. TM

      Oh, good.

    19. CS

      We could have our husbands-

    20. TM

      [laughs]

    21. CS

      ... and the dog out together.

    22. TM

      He's a, he's a good old farmer. And I wanna add, too, I think this is important. You asked me, like, how do I look good at 51? I do think there's something to... And you mentioned six-pack. I think there's something as women age, and I know that other trainers will back me up on this, as women hit middle age, we look better with a little bit of fat. We just keep... Like, I had a-

    23. CS

      Yeah

    24. TM

      ... another, a, a woman in her 60s, an influencer, beautiful, very fit woman. She said, "How does your face look great?" And I'm like, "Well, I don't think my face looks that great, but thank you." But, uh, I'm like it's just, it's fat. Like, it's actually there still. Like, I don't-

    25. CS

      Yeah

    26. TM

      ... I think leaning out to the point of... The, 'cause then you have to fill it with something.

    27. CS

      Yeah, and-

    28. TM

      And that starts getting weird

    29. CS

      ... and there's a lot of studies that also back that men actually like women who have a little bit of fat on them because it leads to more higher predictability for fertility, right? Not too much.

    30. TM

      Right.

  8. 20:58 – 23:56

    Aging Gracefully: Metabolism and Hormonal Changes

    1. TM

      and they show up and they're batshit crazy.

    2. CS

      Wow.

    3. TM

      And they're like, "What's wrong with me?" I'm like, "You literally just sucked out all your fat, which was all of your hormonal depot." So and of course we're, I'm supplementing hormones as I age, but your fat stores are sort of your lifeline to a lot of things. And so keeping that super shredded look as a woman, I don't think it's great for longevity.

    4. CS

      I cannot wait-

    5. TM

      [laughs]

    6. CS

      ... to tell my husband that, uh, this is just my auntie crazy. [laughs]

    7. TM

      It is. It is.

    8. CS

      Well, he's actually always the one that's like, "You need to chill on losing weight." Um, well, I have a question about that, though. So I'm, I'm getting older, and I absolutely do feel, whether it's true or not, that my metabolism is slowing down. Is that real? Are there ways around it? Can we keep our metabolism as we age?

    9. TM

      Supposedly, the metabolism is not slowing. That's what data shows, which I know, I know. I get... I, I'm in the same boat. I- what I think is happening is we're having hormonal shifts, and like I said, the estrogen shifts will cause the insulin to shift, 'cause insulin's a hormone at the end of the day. And then we're having, I think, um... Well, not I don't think, I know as our estrogen starts to shift, our tolerance to stress goes down. So women do not tolerate stress the way men do. Women do not tolerate lack of sleep the way men do. Women do not tolerate, you know, consistent intensity the way women d- or sorry, men do. And so as our estrogen is waning, that gets worse and worse and worse, and harder and harder to deal with, and cortisol will make you put fat on in weird places.

    10. CS

      Mm.

    11. TM

      And then I think thirdly, we're losing muscle mass, and so this is why the lifting is non-negotiable. Like, it's just non-negotiable. I was telling people a long time ago on the internet to eat meat and deadlift all- when all the influencers were like, "Just do yoga and go vegan." [laughs]

    12. CS

      [laughs]

    13. TM

      And it was not popular. [laughs]

    14. CS

      You're right.

    15. TM

      And I'm so glad that, you know, folks like D- Dr. Gabrielle have finally gotten the message out that women are... And Dr. Stacy Sims. It's like this is non-negotiable if you wanna age well. And you- it's not about looking hot. It's about not breaking a hip.

    16. CS

      That is what... Yeah, you know, you had this quote that I loved, which is, "When in doubt, deadlift. Need to make a big decision but feel unsure? Deadlift."

    17. TM

      [laughs]

    18. CS

      "Need to process anger or frustration? Deadlift. Want to find calm zen on a chaotic day? Deadlift."

    19. TM

      [laughs]

    20. CS

      "Deadlifts fix nearly everything and always bring calm clarity." Why do you like deadlifts so much?

    21. TM

      I think it's because it hits that central nervous system hard enough that you get that whomp, and this is where lifting light doesn't give it to you.

    22. CS

      Mm.

    23. TM

      So I understand that peop- I have some pretty serious spinal orthopedic issues, and I cannot deadlift the way I used to under the kind of weight that I used to. So I cannot get that whomp the same way, but it's not the same whomp that you get from, you know, Orange Theorying yourself into exhaustion. There's just something about a heavy central nervous system hit. And then in the StrongFirst community, uh, which is like, like the Russian KGB kettlebell community, they always say, "Leave one in the tank."

    24. CS

      Mm.

    25. TM

      Right? And so you get that whomp, but you leave one in the tank, and you come out with superpowers.

    26. CS

      Yeah.

    27. TM

      I think I stole that from Tim Ferriss. I think it was Tim Ferriss I heard a long time ago say, when you need to make a big decision...

  9. 23:56 – 26:57

    The Power of Community: Who You Surround Yourself With

    1. TM

      Or he was, I think he was counseling some CEOs, and he was telling their team, like, when you need to make a big decision, go deadlift and then make the decision. So that's my rule. Like, if I have to make a big decision about something, I will lift and then I will sleep before I decide anything, and then when I wake up. It's usually the same decision I came to before that. [laughs]

    2. CS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    3. TM

      But I promise myself that I will exhaust my nervous energy, I will sleep, and then I will wake up and I will decide.

    4. CS

      And that's how you have better decision-making.

    5. TM

      I think so.

    6. CS

      Three steps. I like that. You have talked about the science surrounding who you surround yourself with. What happens depending on the people that you choose to spend time with? Does that matter?

    7. TM

      I think so. I think it's, it does, and the data is showing that our microbiomes are contagious. And well, going back many years, I had my daughter. I was married to... I was just married to, like, a complete loser, and I had a child with him. And I don't mean to speak disparagingly of him, but many years later, we, the daughter has concluded as well. [laughs] We, that was not a good decision, but I got my beautiful daughter on this planet because of it. So I was, I think, five months postpartum. I was super depressed. I went to visit my buddy and, like, two of my best friends in Seattle, and they were, uh, my friends from, like, high school. And my friends, he was working for Microsoft, and he had really risen the ranks, and he was making good money. And he said, and I'm sure people have heard this, "You can't fly with the eagles if you're hanging out with the turkeys," right? And so, or the turkey vultures or something like that. And I was driving home from Seattle, and that's all I could think about. And it, it, it was something that hung with me that who I s- and there's been other points in my life where I've had to make decisions and be like, "This is not my circle of influence. This cannot be my circle of influence." I have to... You know, you have to be in the room with the people that are more successful. You have to be the dumbest person in the room. You have to be the poorest person in the room so that you can continue to uplevel and be around these people who mirror it and make it look easy, right? Like, I'm sure you started there too.

    8. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    9. TM

      And you go to some mastermind, and you're like-

    10. CS

      Yeah

    11. TM

      ... this guy sitting next to me has five businesses and makes a billion dollars a year, and he's not that smart.

    12. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. TM

      But he's innovative, and he's got this cool thing. So, like, what's my innovative, cool thing? And when it comes to health, our microbiomes are also very contagious, literally contagious.

    14. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. TM

      So if you're living with somebody who has type 2 diabetes, if you're living with somebody who has any number of diseases, we have data showing that that is quite contagious. So you could very well end up with high blood pressure if they have high blood pressure. And I know it sounds crazy, but the actual microbiome is, will rub off. My buddy is a microbiome expert, and he was, uh, Karan Krishna, and you should have him on your show. He's brilliant. He was sharing that, a study a few years ago where one person in the family took an antibiotic, and the entire family's microbiome shifted within days. So communicable and non-communicable diseases, I think, are transferable via microbiome. And then also just health. Like, how do you h- how do you stay motivated? 'Cause it's discipline, not motivation, but

  10. 26:57 – 37:39

    The Impact of Social Circles on Health and Productivity

    1. TM

      if the person you're married to is not also disciplined, we have a problem, right? We have a mismatch. And so I think it's import- and your friend cohorts, and the people you're eating food with, and the food choices you're making, and the how late are we staying up choices we're making-

    2. CS

      Yeah

    3. TM

      ... and all the choices.

    4. CS

      Well, it's fascinating because I didn't know from a health perspective that it, the science backs it, and that was fascinating. So I went down a little rabbit hole looking at some studies after I saw that quote from you. And what's fascinating is this, it's the same thing for productivity. So there's great studies that show that your prote- productivity increases by about 15% if you sit in a 25-square-foot radius of another, of a high performer, and it decreases by about 30% if you sit next to a underperformer.

    5. TM

      Wow.

    6. CS

      So there's actually, like, you know, a, a asymmetric downside to it-

    7. TM

      Wow

    8. CS

      ... in some ways. And then s- the same thing is definitely true for, uh, money. So it seems that money is contagious, uh, as well. So is divorce, I saw.

    9. TM

      Yeah.

    10. CS

      Your likelihood of getting divorced increases if you are around people and quite close that get divorced.

    11. TM

      There's even data that they don't talk about much anymore, but several years ago, before the Healthy at Every Size movement really took hold, um, there... And I'm not saying that's a, a improper movement. I, I think it's more of a hypothesis. I do believe everybody should love their body at every size. I mean, disclaimer, it's just we also cannot glorify pathologic states of being, right? Um-

    12. CS

      Yep

    13. TM

      ... but the data was going around before it was getting censored, and they showed in one study that if you have even five friends on the internet, just internet proximity, not in real person, um, who are struggling with obesity, your chances of becoming obese are exponentially higher. So it's, I don't, you know, who, it's not just microbiome. It's our brain's mirror, right?

    14. CS

      Yeah.

    15. TM

      Our, our mirror neurons in our brain. And who knows? But I, all that to say, I try to surround myself, and it, I'm not talking about leanness or fatness. That's, it's not about that. It's about people who just take care of their health and prioritize their health, period, whatever size that comes in, right?

    16. CS

      Yeah.

    17. TM

      And that's what's important to me is, like, being around people who actually get it, who also prioritize it. Prioritizing it-

    18. CS

      Yeah

    19. TM

      ... I guess, would be the word.

    20. CS

      Well, yeah, you know, it's kind of funny too because these days, like, if you say, "Nah, I'm not really drinking right now. No, I, you know, I don't eat those types of food. Um, no, I only do this," you're, you're sort of criticized in some way-

    21. TM

      Yeah

    22. CS

      ... shape, or f- form. But if you eat all the junk food, you do whatever you want, you know, you don't work out, there's no criticism allowed. That's actually perfectly fine.

    23. TM

      Yeah, it's weird.

    24. CS

      So we've kind of gone upsy, downsy, topsy-turvy world.

    25. TM

      [laughs] Yes.

    26. CS

      And, and we've lost our collective minds, and, and I think part of, like, what I've learned about getting fit is, like, if you want to get fit, if you want to get financially free, you have to be okay setting boundaries for other people to stay out of if they are not gonna help you progress.

    27. TM

      Yep.

    28. CS

      Because we are just not strong enough as individual willpowered beings to have willpower all the time against everything. So even if the science didn't show that it's literally not even up to you, it just transfers in your microbiome-

    29. TM

      Yeah

    30. CS

      ... even, you know, willpower, I mean, think about it for a second. Am I gonna be healthier at the end of the day if I'm hanging out with you and Gabrielle Lion, you guys don't drink, you lift every single day, you eat real foods, um, you have healthy and happy marriages, you work, uh, on things that you love and care about? Is it going to be more likely that I will be more of those things because you are them and that's all I'm around? As opposed to if I'm hanging out with, like you talked about, the punk rockers that you're with back in the day, they're, everybody's smoking, everybody's drinking.

  11. 37:39 – 44:11

    Navigating Relationships and Personal Boundaries

    1. CS

      100%. You know what, the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about is, um, talking about other things that happen to women, and then I wanna get to something that's applicable to everybody. But is there data that shows lately that it is harder for women to get pregnant than it has been before? 'Cause it feels like that.

    2. TM

      Our fertility rates are in the toilet. Yeah, we're in trouble. I think we're going extinct, honestly, as a species.

    3. CS

      What's happening?

    4. TM

      Oh, it's a lot of things, and I can't say with, you know, certainty 'cause that's not entirely my wheelhouse. But I was seeing it early on in practice. I got licensed in 2008, and I was seeing it in practice early, a lot of young women coming in having issues. The way it's handled is weird. They give you drugs to, uh, get your eggs to basically shoot out [laughs] you know, or your ovaries to shoot out an egg. And there's a lot... If you look at animal husbandry, they really have an appreciation for, like, hypothyroidism being the cause of infertility, and a b- you know, pr- low progesterone can be a contributor to holding onto that pregnancy. And so that is the way I've always approached it, is-

    5. CS

      Mm

    6. TM

      ... making sure just to optimize a woman's, uh... You know, get the toxins out of her life, get her moving, deal with her metabolic dysfunction, and then thyroid and progesterone. But I think we're in a whole different world now at this point with the, you know, the intervention of 2021, I think is a, a potential factor. We have data on that. I'm not making it up. I'm not trying to fearmonger. And then we've got abysmal fertility in men. We've got, you know, plummeting testosterone rates, so their swimmers are not swimming so well.

    7. CS

      Mm.

    8. TM

      And I think overarching is this metabolic dysfunction-

    9. CS

      Yeah

    10. TM

      ... that I've been trying to beat the drum on for a long time, and it was not sexy. And thank God, you know, Dr. Casey Means came out with her book, and people are paying attention now. But I have been trying to get people sp- s- my, my mentor told me, "Keep your waist circumference in check at all costs, and lift weights." Like, do not let the metabolic dysfunction get you, and we're seeing it in younger and younger and younger, I mean, children with severe metabolic dysfunction. And that does not bode well for fertility 'cause a body that is metabolically compromised is not gonna wanna reproduce.

    11. CS

      Yeah, it's-

    12. TM

      So I think we're in a, we're in a pickle. And then I'm hearing from my friends that are your age telling me that all their girlfriends are getting, you know, IVF.

    13. CS

      All of them.

    14. TM

      Which is crazy to me.

    15. CS

      Yeah, I would say I have about 15% of my girlfriends, uh, who have done it naturally.

    16. TM

      Really?

    17. CS

      Almost everybody else, yeah. And, and maybe even 10% if you include, like, turkey basting or whatever that's called-

    18. TM

      Yeah. [laughs]

    19. CS

      ... where you... Is that the scientific term? I think so.

    20. TM

      [laughs]

    21. CS

      So-

    22. TM

      Get up there.

    23. CS

      Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

    24. TM

      Just lay back and get it done.

    25. CS

      Um-

    26. TM

      That's crazy.

    27. CS

      Yeah, and these are women... And not all of them are women who work, who might have, like, more stress. It's, it's sort of across the gambit. And, and I would say from ages, like, 30 to, let's call it 41, uh, you know, I'm seeing all of them struggle with it by and large. I mean, I have a couple girlfriends that are on their, like, their seventh, eighth, and ninth IVF round.

    28. TM

      Oh my God, and that does terrible th- That's the problem, is that hormonal load that these women go through is just wreaking havoc on their metabolic health, so they're becoming less and less and less fertile through the process of IVF.

    29. CS

      Oof.

    30. TM

      It's so bizarre.

  12. 44:11 – 51:30

    The Controversy of GLP-1 Drugs and Their Implications

    1. CS

      And so what is your take on this drug or series of drugs? Are they bad? Are they good?

    2. TM

      So they're peptides. And when I realized that they were peptides, I immediately got more intrigued, because a peptide is just a string of amino acids, and you were saying your husband likes peptides. A lot of people in... You, you really can't age into middle age and be active and fit and not at some point come around to peptides.

    3. CS

      Mm.

    4. TM

      Because you end up in pain, and you end up-

    5. CS

      It's true

    6. TM

      ... with injuries, right?

    7. CS

      Yeah.

    8. TM

      And so the peptide community's really expanding. I think we're finding, um, you know, ease of execution with a lot of these oral forms of different peptides, BPC 157, TB 500, these, you know, wolverine peptides. There's all kinds of different peptides out there. And peptides by nature insert themselves. They're just strings of amino acids that are peptide bound together to make peptides, and the strings of peptides are just proteins.

    9. CS

      Mm.

    10. TM

      That's the complexity of it. That's where it gets. And so peptides insert themselves where they need to go, and they do their magic. Um, it just so happens that these peptides are over here in the big pharma bucket be- I think it's because of the way that they are administered in, you know, injection-wise. And so I started researching them because it was... Well, when was it? A couple summers ago, and there was just spring, summer, it was everywhere I looked, there was so much hype about it. And the weirdest part was the entire functional medicine community was, it was all sounding very propagandized. Like in 2020, you know, I- immediately my ears perked up and I'm like, "This sounds like propaganda."

    11. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    12. TM

      And indeed, you know, [laughs] here we are. So it was the same kind of thing. I was... This clickbait-y nonsense I was seeing mainstream media, and then I was hearing the functional medicine and the medical freedom community also preaching the same message. Like when do those two align?

    13. CS

      Yeah.

    14. TM

      That was weird. So immediately I was like, "This smells sus." So I start looking into it, and I find stacks of data showing from tip to toe really amazing regenerative healing and anti-inflammatory properties, really potent anti-inflammatory properties to these peptides.

    15. CS

      Wow.

    16. TM

      They're not just working by decreasing your, you know, stomach motility. They're not just making you feel fuller longer. They're not just shutting down your appetite in your brain. They're not... That's, that's not where it ends. They actually are healing metabolic pathways, which the crux, in my opinion, the crux of most modern diseases is metabolic dysfunction, and we are all to some degree. I mean, if, if 94% of US adults are metabolically compromised, then that's 94% of your listeners.

    17. CS

      Yeah.

    18. TM

      Maybe yours are a bit better 'cause, you know, maybe our listeners of our pods are more educated, but generally speaking. And so I don't, I don't know what... I think part of it was just me being, um... I, I, I tried to make a podcast about it and come out and talk about it, and the pushback I got was so fierce and ferocious, and it was very reminiscent of 2020 when I was telling people to eat meat, go outside, lift weights. You don't need to be a sitting duck.

    19. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. TM

      Like viruses aren't... Th- there's a high, you know, there's a high, um, success rate of getting through all of these things if you go into it with good metabolic health and you start taking... And, and even small steps today will translate into more potent and a, you know, robust immune response. And it was very much like that, and I was like, "This is weird." Even the bots, I was getting the same kind of bot m- you've probably gotten a lot of bot messages. You know them when you see them, right? And you go look at-

    21. CS

      Yeah

    22. TM

      ... the profile and you're like, "This is a bot." So I'm getting this parroted response. "Just eat less and move more. Just eat less and move more." And I'm like, "No, I didn't mention weight loss. I was talking about Parkinson's. No, I didn't mention weight loss. I was sharing a study about this." And they just kept coming in. The functional medicine community got pissed at me. Um, I went on Dr. Mark Hyman's podcast to debate Kelly Means. He wouldn't listen. He was yelling over the top of me. It was very, very polarized, uh, of a topic, and I was like, "What have I stumbled into here?" [laughs]

    23. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. TM

      And I'm so insubordinate, I just kept pushing. The more they pushed back on me, the more I... You know, I'm just like that. I'm like, "Oh, you wanna go? I'll go. Okay." So, and I will go all... Like my favorite game is just obliterating people with data, so I'm like, "Oh, I got mountains over here, and I can quote them." And I don't mean to be... That's not probably-

    25. CS

      No, I love this approach. You-

    26. TM

      That's probably my pathology. [laughs]

    27. CS

      Yes. Yes. Go.

    28. TM

      But that's, yeah, it's like, all right, let's go. And the, the more I pushed, pushed forward, I got a lot of heat, but I started getting people listening, and they, and then I started-

    29. CS

      Sure.

    30. TM

      You know, I've got a decent-- I don't have a following your size, but I have a decent size following.

  13. 51:30 – 57:14

    The Role of Peptides in Modern Medicine

    1. TM

      I think obviously lifestyle's always number one, and I've been preaching metabolic health since day one, so I don't know how that message has gotten skewed. I'm not a big pharma shill. I'm a go to the fucking gym and eat enough protein and get your shit together person. And then we have tools.

    2. CS

      Yeah.

    3. TM

      And I'm gonna use all the tools that I want to use, that I have accessible to me, and I can prescribe in Oregon, so I'm going to use my prescription abilities. We have no problem. I was thinking about it in the shower this morning, like somebody in the MAHA movement was saying something about how they prefer food over big pharma, and I was like, this is really choice coming from... Uh, I'm not bashing the MAHA movement. It's just, it's a generalized statement I'm making. It's really choice to me that people are okay with having their, you know, thyroid hormone compounded or their hormone replacement or... 'Cause I could make an argument that most hormonal issues, aside from ovarian failure at menopause, most hormonal issues are lifestyle in nature. Like, we burn out our thyroids, we burn out our hormones and when we're younger. And I could also make an argument that folks' need for high blood pressure medication and statins are also lifestyle. I could make those arguments all day, but we don't vilify those people.

    4. CS

      Yeah.

    5. TM

      And then my best part was last night, I see a huge influencer who has been bashing on, a, a doctor who's been bashing on GLP-1s and Ozempic for a year on every podcast he could get on, himself on, and then he does a fricking reel on the benefits of BPC-157 because you can buy it in a pill and he can sell it to you.

    6. CS

      Oof. I saw that one, actually.

    7. TM

      And I'm like, "Really?"

    8. CS

      Yeah.

    9. TM

      I commented on it. I'm like, "That's interesting." Because I know of a peptide that you've been bashing on that's also anti-inflammatory, healing, and regenerative.

    10. CS

      Yeah.

    11. TM

      But that one's not okay. It doesn't fit the storyline.

    12. CS

      Well, I think that's the interesting part. It's like, um, when we become these, like, mono-thinking individuals, where we, uh, label ourselves anything, whether it's MAHA or whether it's pharma or whether... And, and we cannot deviate from our cultural group, I think we get into a big problem.

    13. TM

      It's huge.

    14. CS

      And so I alway- I never really trust someone who hasn't pushed back against not only the other side, but their side, [laughs] because you have to be willing to do both in order to have, like, a reasonable, rational debate. Now, when you got deplatformed, what, why do you think that happened? Like...

    15. TM

      Well, that was the month that Eli Lilly released their vials. So they had, Zepbound is the, uh, brand name for the... So we've got semaglutide, which is made by Novo Nordisk, and semaglutide comes in Ozempic or Wegovy.

    16. CS

      Yeah.

    17. TM

      Ozempic is FDA approved for type 2. Wegovy is, um, approved for weight loss. On the Eli Lilly side, we have Mounjaro, and that would be, Mounjaro is for type 2, FDA approved, and Zepbound is their version. Same thing, same peptides. They're just... Well, these two are different, but you, you get what I'm saying.

    18. CS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    19. TM

      They're just approved for different things. They came out with their vials that month, actually that week, I think, and they had sent a lot of cease and desist letters to the telemedicine companies, the compounding pharmacies, the many doctors who were prescribing compounded. They really have... And, and Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly have been pushing very hard against the compounded. And at that time, I have been proposing microdoses or-

    20. CS

      Yeah

    21. TM

      ... a more personalized dosing strategy, I think would be a better term. And meaning that the starting dose, if you, even if you're dealing with type 2 diabetes or obesity and that's what you're using it for, I think the starting dose in many cases can be too high and, and non-tolerable to many people.

    22. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. TM

      And so if you do wanna escalate somebody up to those therapeutic doses, then consider, you know, big pharma, consider a lower dose. People shouldn't have to lay on the couch for a month vomiting profusely-

    24. CS

      Exactly

    25. TM

      ... to onboard a medication or a peptide, right? But on the other side, I was talking about using very potentially... Like, for someone like yourself, who's metabolically very optimized, you lift weights, you do all the things, right? You get your sleep, you get your protein in, you, you do all the things. If you were coming to me saying, "You know, I've got this neurologic issue," or, "I've got," um, any number of things, PCOS, uh, fertility issues, we are allowed to use things off-label. And so in those cases, my husband has high blood pressure, and he's got cardiovascular disease in his family, so in those cases, we would use these peptides potentially preventatively or in very minuscule doses.

    26. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. TM

      'Cause you would not tolerate usually anywhere near the standard starting dose. And anyway, all that to say, that week everybody was getting letters, and I got deplatformed. So I speculate. I do not know. I don't have any proof.

    28. CS

      Yeah.

    29. TM

      But I speculate I got [laughs] kinda got caught up in the crosshairs there, I think.

    30. CS

      Yeah.

  14. 57:14 – 1:00:21

    The Role of Compounding Pharmacies

    1. CS

      ours."

    2. TM

      I don't think they want compounding pharmacies. And I never really was. Like, however you can access it. In fact, there's a paper-

    3. CS

      Yeah

    4. TM

      ... that came out this-

    5. CS

      Because compounding pharmacies don't use Eli Lilly's formulas-

    6. TM

      Yes, correct

    7. CS

      ... so they don't have to pay them licensing.

    8. TM

      Correct.

    9. CS

      Wow.

    10. TM

      Yeah. That's correct.

    11. CS

      And so because if I understand this correct, like, what do, what do they have that is patented in this? Like, what are, what are compounders not allowed to use or allowed to use?

    12. TM

      I don't know all the details. I know that there's 503A and 503B in the compounding world, and I, again, I'm not a compounding pharmacist, so I'm not an expert in this, but there is a clause that came into being in the early 2000s or tw- 2000 and teens, yeah, it was like 2013, I think, uh, it was when I was in practice, that compounding pharmacists could fill the need on a shortage.

    13. CS

      Interesting.

    14. TM

      And that's with 503B. And I don't know if those are more identical to the brand name or not, but these two peptides have been in shortage for a long time. And so 503B compounding pharmacies were filling that need. And now there's big lawsuits going on 'cause supposedly they're outta shortage, and it's a whole thing. I d- I don't pretend to follow it all completely, but, or understand it all, but now it's gonna go back to 503A, which is less... Uh, there's, there's less oversight on 503A. So them pushing against this compounding might be pushing it into even a less, you know, a, I don't wanna say-

    15. CS

      Regulated?

    16. TM

      ... less safe.

    17. CS

      Yeah.

    18. TM

      And that's not the right word, but there's, there's gonna be even less oversight on how these are manufactured in different pharmacies than they were before. So I don't know. I'm trying to stay out of the whole mess. I was really excited last, this last month, oh, in March, actually, um, an article came out in the Journal of Diabetes showing that you could actually take the pens, 'cause this is the big thing, the brand names are in pens, and they're prefilled, they're predosed.

    19. CS

      Oh, so you can't change the dose.

    20. TM

      Yes. That's the problem. I should've said that early on. The compounding come in vials, and you can pull up what you want-

    21. CS

      Yeah

    22. TM

      ... so you can have a more personalized approach. So the pens, though, this paper was published, and they were talking about using it in smaller doses. They called... I mean, it, it's like microdosing has made it mainstream, and I'm nowhere in the conversation, but that's okay. I, I, 'cause I really, I'm not talking about it for weight loss. I'm trying to talk about it for other things. But they came out with this paper showing microdosing for type 2 diabetes. You can start people at a lower dose, and you can actually use this pen click method with the brand name pens. So that should make Big Pharma happy because their product is still being used.

    23. CS

      Yep.

    24. TM

      But depending on how... And they have a whole chart in the study. Anyone can go look it up. I can give you the link to put in the show notes. There's a whole chart-

    25. CS

      Great

    26. TM

      ... on how to use the pen click method to get the appropriate dosage if somebody can't tolerate the dose or if somebody needs something more personalized.

    27. CS

      Yeah, which is brilliant because I have some friends that, you know, by all intents and practices, they probably did need help from some sort of GLP-1, I guess they're called.

    28. TM

      Yeah.

    29. CS

      And so, um, but they got so sick-

    30. TM

      Yeah

  15. 1:00:21 – 1:02:28

    Understanding Functional vs. Allopathic Medicine

    1. CS

      Interesting. So, so are these things then something that you get stuck on for life? Like, does this become another type of just lifetime drug that's great for pharmaceuticals and not great for individuals?

    2. TM

      That's a good question, and I think that people don't understand the functional medicine approach versus the allopathic approach. In allopathic medicine, you have a condition. Y- the standard of care is to prescribe X, Y, or Z drugs for said condition. This is why doctors aren't, MDs traditionally trained are not keen on running a bunch of functional lab tests, because they're responsible legally for whatever comes up on that lab result, okay? So they need to prescribe, based on standard of care, whatever drug is appropriate that has been deemed the standard of care. You show up with high blood pressure, they must put you on a blood pressure medication.

    3. CS

      Wow.

    4. TM

      If they're gonna go... It depends on what state they're in, because some boards are a little, you know, more rigorous than others. But like in Oregon, for instance, MDs don't do well prescribing desiccated thyroid, which is a prescription, but naturopathic doctors can. MDs don't prescribe ivermectin for COVID, but naturopathic doctors could. Because naturopathic doctors, we are not under standard of care, we're under best practices. There is a standard. We can't go rogue and do random shit, but we also, we... So we actually have to know more. We have to know what the standard of care is, we have to present it to the patient, and then we have to present them our, all our t- alternatives, which are the other options that we would bring to the table. So anyway, all that to say, um, the way that I do things with peptides in general, is I cycle them. We cycle them, we go on and off of them, we use them as a tool for a time.

    5. CS

      Yep.

    6. TM

      I do that with drugs too, though. Like, f- uh, Prozac for instance. It was never studied long-term for depression. It was studied to be implemented as a basically like an emergency chute.

    7. CS

      Oh.

    8. TM

      When you're going through a terrible time period, you use it during a window. Maybe you have a divorce or a death in the family and you're devastated. It's, these are window... And I like to think of most drugs as, like, hormones we generally tend to need to stay on, but I cycle those too.

    9. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. TM

      So I think it depends on the individual. I think there are people living with the dis- I do believe there is a disease of obesity. I don't think every obese person has the disease, and I don't think everybody with the disease is obese.

    11. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    12. TM

      But

  16. 1:02:28 – 1:05:25

    The Dangers of Long-term Drug Use

    1. TM

      I do think there is the disease of obesity, and I do think that for some of those folks, yes. But I don't think that anybody even has the right to start a GLP-1 if they also aren't going to the gym and lifting weights, and they're not also hitting their macros, their protein macros. So my argument from day one has been, it's not the peptide's fault, it's a manage- it's a dosing and management issue.

    2. CS

      Yeah.

    3. TM

      Like, and I hate to diss on the doctors, because we all went to medical school and racked up tremendous, you know, huge bills, not 'cause we were waiting to get rich. I, there are not rich doctors. Do you know any rich doctors?

    4. CS

      No.

    5. TM

      There might be like-

    6. CS

      Compounding pharmacy owners, some of them. [laughs]

    7. TM

      Yeah, but there's, you know, there's a few, like, plastic surgeons, et cetera, that are doing well.

    8. CS

      Yeah, for sure.

    9. TM

      But medicine doesn't... Most people don't go into medicine to get, be... They're not greedy assholes.

    10. CS

      No.

    11. TM

      We don't give up a huge chunk of our life.

    12. CS

      No, you can't get rich quick either at it.

    13. TM

      Yes.

    14. CS

      You could get rich-

    15. TM

      Exactly. [laughs]

    16. CS

      ... very, very slowly-

    17. TM

      Slowly

    18. CS

      ... over decades.

    19. TM

      Right. So anyway, all that to say, people seem to think that they're greedy doctors. So I hate to throw them under the bus, but m- many of them are getting into areas that maybe aren't their strongest wheelhouse. And so they know nothing about how to manage or help somebody with metabolic dysfunction.

    20. CS

      Yeah.

    21. TM

      And yet they're throwing peptides at them, and they're doing what the s- the studies tell them to escalate the dose quickly and aggressively. And so these people are getting put on these high doses very quickly, which I think at the end of the day is gonna be catastrophic because the muscle loss... And I've said this in the past. I, I'm st- I wanna add something here. Yes, when you put anybody on a low, low, low calorie diet and you severely calorically restrict, or you do gastric bypass and you malnourish them basically, they're gonna have lean mass loss. And it's on par with the percentage. It's the same. I will say though, these peptides, these GLP-1s, they rev that AMPK pathway, which I said earlier is catabolic. So I think at the end of the day, these folks that are on high doses that are doing nothing else and are not doing any lifestyle changes are going to find themselves perpetually on them for the rest of their life, and if they ever go off of them, they are now like melted candles.

    22. CS

      Oof.

    23. TM

      They've got very severe wasting that has occurred throughout their lean tissue, and including their muscle mass, which is your metabolic engine, and it's a disaster. And now they're sitting in a very brittle diabetic state versus... So it's, they're masking and they're, dare I say, overdosing, but that might be the problem.

    24. CS

      Interesting. You know, is it-

    25. TM

      I don't know if that answers the question.

    26. CS

      It does, and opens up so many more. Am I dumb for not knowing that standard of care meant that doctors really have to do it this way, or they basically open themself up to risk-

    27. TM

      Yes

    28. CS

      ... is the way that I take that?

    29. TM

      That's correct.

    30. CS

      Is that like common knowledge?

  17. 1:05:25 – 1:09:36

    The Challenges of Patient Compliance

    1. CS

      tummy? And not telling him like, stop with," he loves Mexican food, like, "Stop with this. Get to the gym. You know, you need to be lifting more." Why does that never come up? But I think it makes a lot of sense if actually there is a perverse incentive for them, and it's not even the doctor's fault. It's, it's not that they wanna get a kickback from a drug company all the time.

    2. TM

      There's no kick... There, and that's the other thing. I don't, I, the, maybe I'm wrong here, but I was in practice for 10 years, uh, in a big clinical setting, and, uh, the, no- nobody came knocking with a check when I wrote a prescription. There's no, there's no... You know, there might be companies that are courting doctors, maybe t- sending them on trips, or...

    3. CS

      Yeah.

    4. TM

      And they have to disclose this too.

    5. CS

      Yeah.

    6. TM

      You can legally look that up.

    7. CS

      Sure.

    8. TM

      But it's not like a, you write a prescription and you get a... It's not-

    9. CS

      Yeah

    10. TM

      ... it, it, that's not... And maybe, maybe there's some off-record d- deals going on I don't know about, but no. And also they are time constrained, so if they're... Back in 1995 when I was working at a hospital in Portland, I was an undergrad, I wanted to be a doctor, and this is why I went ND instead of MD route. 'Cause this MD came in and he was a neurologist, and we were in the Alzheimer's and dementia clinic doing research.

    11. CS

      Mm.

    12. TM

      And he said that at that time in '95, if he spent more than seven minutes in a room with a patient, he was losing money.

    13. CS

      Oh.

    14. TM

      So they can't tell your dad how to eat right, and they're not lifting themselves. They're train wrecks.

    15. CS

      Yeah.

    16. TM

      Most doctors have fatty liver themselves, so they tell you, "Oh, your labs are normal. You have some fatty liver. That's okay." It's like, no it's not okay. Your liver is literally going to be cirrhotic in 10, 20 years. Like this is m- maybe a little longer, depends on the person and how much alcohol they're drinking. But it's just bizarro land to me that we've got, you know, mediocre health folks, and but to their defense, their lives are incredibly stressful.

    17. CS

      Yep.

    18. TM

      So there's a lot a- going up against doctors, and we really do trash on them way too often.

    19. CS

      Yeah.

    20. TM

      And I don't love it. Um- They're, they're wheels in a ca- or whatever the term is. You know, there's a-

    21. CS

      Cog in a wheel

    22. TM

      ... yeah, they're just in a system that is cr- I believe, quite corrupt-

    23. CS

      Yeah

    24. TM

      ... and misguided.

    25. CS

      Well, it's interest- it's close to my heart right now because my brother has just really been struggling with, he got his gallbladder out when he was, like, 13 or something, and he has, uh... He had, like, cyclical vomiting syndrome-

    26. TM

      Oh, no

    27. CS

      ... and, um, has had all of these health issues. But the answer from, from a lot of medical professionals has been, "All right, let's put you on anti-anxiety medication. Let's put you on an antidepressant. Are you depressed? Let's do this." And I'm like, I just watched the kid drink a, uh, Arnold Palmer with half lemonade in it and eat a big thing of meatloaf. Like, could we sta- if he's got... If he already can't process stuff, if his gut is messed up, if he's vomiting all the time, should we start with something else? And, you know, and, and then, you know, kinda telling him that it didn't matter if he drank sometimes.

    28. TM

      Yeah.

    29. CS

      And, you know, and, and at some point I, I really feel for, like, the families and everybody involved, 'cause you get to a certain point too with him where I'm like, "Bud, you're a grown man. This is your path."

    30. TM

      Yeah.

  18. 1:09:36 – 1:11:05

    Supporting Loved Ones in Health Journeys

    1. TM

      and that's frustrating enough-

    2. CS

      Yeah

    3. TM

      ... 'cause then you're just dealing with, you know, ignorant trolls. But in clinical practice, when someone's paying you a clip of money-

    4. CS

      Yeah

    5. TM

      ... you're not the cheapest doc in town, and they're still yelling at you when you're telling them-

    6. CS

      Yeah

    7. TM

      ... to go to the gym and... You know, it's, it's tough. It's a tough gig. But for your brother's sake, some digestive enzymes, some ox bile, and some-

    8. CS

      I told him

    9. TM

      ... some HCL would go a long way.

    10. CS

      HCL. And, uh, you know what? Gabrielle Licthenstein-

    11. TM

      Ox bile

    12. CS

      ... said ox bile too.

    13. TM

      Yeah.

    14. CS

      And I told him, and he said it sounded gross, and so we're working with him on that.

    15. TM

      [laughs]

    16. CS

      I'm like, "It's a pill."

    17. TM

      Does he like-

    18. CS

      "You don't taste anything."

    19. TM

      Does he like, um, like carnivory stuff? Does he like the, that scene at all?

    20. CS

      Uh, you know what? I think at this point-

    21. TM

      'Cause there's-

    22. CS

      ... sadly, he's at that point where, you know when you just don't have any other options, and your health has gotten to a level where it is the only thing that matters-

    23. TM

      Yeah

    24. CS

      ... and you realize that everybody else can have 100 problems, but you only got one? That's where he's at.

    25. TM

      Yeah.

    26. CS

      And so with him right now, it's really, "All right, man," like, "this is your moment." And it's a bummer that I haven't known how to get through to him prior to this. Um, but I think he's at that moment where he's willing to listen. And so, uh, you know, I'd be curious your take too. H- have you found... Like, if somebody is at that point where they're like, "God, I'm, I'm here, and it's hard, and I know I have to make massive health changes," what would you tell them? How do you get somebody to even start truly prioritizing their health when they realize that they have no other choice but to?

  19. 1:11:05 – 1:17:51

    The Importance of Lifestyle Changes

    1. TM

      It comes down to pain and vanity, or vanity.

    2. CS

      Mm.

    3. TM

      So when people hit a wall on one of those, they usually will be... I mean, I had to. I've had to multiple times. I recently got back some very concerning labs. I knew I was burning the candle at all ends-

    4. CS

      Mm-hmm

    5. TM

      ... and I was like, "I'm fine. I'll be okay." And then I get my labs back, and I'm like, "Oh, my thyroid's on fire." [laughs] It's not okay, right? I've gotta make some severe changes.

    6. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TM

      I've gotta restructure my business and restructure my life. Um, it's one step at a time. I really do think the answer's in the gym, though. I think the, the ritual of committing to that process of going three days a week, it doesn't have to be five days a week. It's just, I just work... I, I lift three days a week. Going to the gym at a scheduled time or hiring that trainer if you can, I think that's great money invested if you can hire a personal trainer who knows what they're doing, and committing to that process, because that process begets the other processes. So when you're training, you will automatically start to reprioritize what you put in your mouth-

    8. CS

      Mm-hmm

    9. TM

      ... because you worked too hard in the gym to sacrifice and, and b- you know, ruin the opportunity for that muscle protein synthesis, so you're like, "I'm gonna eat better." You hydrate more. You're tired, so you go to bed.

    10. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    11. TM

      You know, you start to make these incremental changes around the one goal of building muscle.

    12. CS

      Mm.

    13. TM

      And so getting stronger is the goal physically, and maybe vanity is what's driving it, maybe pain's driving it, but either way, you're not gonna get out of here alive or in very good shape if you don't have muscle. So if that becomes... I, I alwa- I joke, like, the answer's in the gym and on your plate, stage one. Like, that's it. [laughs] My mom to this day, every time she a- "I have a friend who has this," whatever condition. I'm like, "Mom, what has my answer been for 20 years?" "Eat more meat and lift weights." I'm like, "Yes, Mom."

    14. CS

      [laughs]

    15. TM

      "Tell, tell 85-year-old Peggy to eat more meat and lift weights. She will feel better." [laughs]

    16. CS

      Why do you think we don't listen to that? Like-

    17. TM

      It's too easy. They want sexy. They want the GLP-1.

    18. CS

      Yeah.

    19. TM

      I mean, I came out gunning on GLP-1s, and it wasn't that I was trying to promote GLP-1s. I was trying to promote metabolic health.

    20. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    21. TM

      And I was like, "Hey, guys, we have something that might help," because even with my best intentions, at 50 years old, my metabolic health was starting to become compromised because of chronic stress. There's not, you know, there's not much I can do outside... I'm doing the gym, I'm doing the food, I'm doing all the things, and I was starting to have that 15, 20 pounds here.

    22. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. TM

      I found a peptide that can help, and it also helps with my autoimmune disease, and it also helps with my brain fog, and it h- helps with my mood. Anyway, all that to say, I was just putting lipstick on a pig. I was still trying to promote the message of metabolic health, which is all the things, which I know feels daunting for someone like your brother, but just even prioritizing what goes in his mouth.

    24. CS

      Yeah.

    25. TM

      'Cause this is the direct sh- route to the chute [laughs]

    26. CS

      Yeah.

    27. TM

      You know? Like, it's like putting a, something inflammatory on an open wound. Like, why would you do that?

    28. CS

      Yeah.

    29. TM

      You know, you wouldn't put acid or salt... I mean, maybe salt will dry it out, but you wouldn't put acid on your open wound.

    30. CS

      Open wound. Mm-mm.

  20. 1:17:51 – 1:22:54

    Optimizing Health for High Performers

    1. TM

      The two biggest things I've s- 'cause that's been predominantly my patient base, the two biggest things would be, number one, keep an eye on your hormones and get them handled before you think you need to. And I, I... That is different for everyone. That might be in your 30s, that might be in your 40s. But start, find somebody who's hormone literate and get that handled before you think you need to, because it c- when it creeps up onto you, it's pretty subtle until you fall off the cliff.

    2. CS

      Mm.

    3. TM

      And it could be something like COVID or a big stressor or something that throws you off the cliff.

    4. CS

      Yeah.

    5. TM

      And so having that dialed in, I think, is the ticket. I've been on hormones since my 30s, and when people say, "You look great," I'm like, "I shouldn't look great?" I mean, I shared with you how unhealthy I was when I was a teen, but I think the hormones since the 30s have been, you know, little bits here and there. I love the peptides for that as well.

    6. CS

      Yeah.

    7. TM

      So become peptide literate.

    8. CS

      Yeah.

    9. TM

      Educate yourself as best you can, you know, because you're only gonna get so far with any practitioner, so you need to have a basic handle on nutrition and fitness. Like, that's a skill you need to learn, is how to navigate the gym. And then I think the last thing is really watching your stress, because stress will erode all your best efforts despite how much intention you're putting into all of the good things. Stress will destroy your metabolism. It will destroy your beauty. I don't drink... I drink very rarely now, and it... Somebody asked me the other day, she said, "Why'd you quit drinking?" I'm like, " 'Cause it makes me ugly."

    10. CS

      [laughs]

    11. TM

      So vanity has been what, you know, vanity and pain. I live with a lot of chronic pain, too. So I think it's just navigating your life, because what I see happen is these folks get to their l- ... mid to late 40s, and then all of a sudden the wheels start falling off the car. And if they're, if they don't go into that with muscle and they don't go into that with some semblance of decent eating habits, it can happen very quickly. And so that's that miracle spot of, like, 45 to 50, do not fuck around. [laughs] Start getting serious about, yeah, we gotta let some things go. We gotta reprioritize. But if you want good... I think, you know, good erectile d- uh, function is key. Good libido.

    12. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. TM

      Good sleep habits. That's... Those are markers for good health. If your sleep starts falling apart as a woman, if your libido completely bottoms out, something's wrong.

    14. CS

      Yeah.

    15. TM

      Go get yourself handled.

    16. CS

      Where are all the best places to follow Dr. Tyna?

    17. TM

      So I have a podcast. I would love for you to come on.

    18. CS

      Love it.

    19. TM

      Actually.

    20. CS

      Love to.

    21. TM

      Yeah, I have a g- I have a great podcast I love doing. Um, I'm on Instagram. Everything-

    22. CS

      And what is the podcast called?

    23. TM

      It's called The Dr. Tyna Show, very original. [laughs]

    24. CS

      Mm-hmm.

    25. TM

      D-R-T-Y-N-A. If you go to my website drtyna.com, I've got a free four-part video series all about GLP-1s done right.

    26. CS

      Ooh.

    27. TM

      Where I dive deep into each video and I give you the science on a whole different story you probably haven't heard, which I think everybody should listen to because you o- you will end up with someone you love on these peptides, so you might as well become literate on it. Uh, I have a bigger course if people are interested, especially healthcare practitioners. And then I think I'm mostly on Instagram.

    28. CS

      Yeah, I like your Instagram videos.

    29. TM

      Thank you.

    30. CS

      I was just going through them yesterday.

Episode duration: 1:22:54

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