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The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam GrantThe Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

Exploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature | The Curiosity Shop

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant unpack the paradoxes that shape our lives, relationships, leadership, and decision-making. They explore the Abilene Paradox, the Stockdale Paradox, why groups often make decisions nobody actually wants, and how people balance gritty facts with gritty faith. The conversation moves through spirituality, teamwork, family dynamics, optimism, creativity, and even unexpected debates about Twilight and Pitch Perfect. Funny, thoughtful, and deeply human, this episode examines why two opposite truths can exist at the same time and why learning to live inside that tension may be one of the most important skills we have. #BrenéBrown #AdamGrant #thecuriosityshop #paradox Don't miss a video! Subscribe NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop About The Curiosity Shop: Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop features two of the world's most sought-after experts on connection, change, and leadership making the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. New episodes drop every Thursday. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Connect with The Curiosity Shop: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1730985049 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/3oEPsPKDhPVoNNL7pH5db6?si=e2483abb4eed4b03 Connect with Brené Brown: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brenebrown/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenebrown/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brenebrown/ Connect with Adam Grant: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/ X: https://x.com/adammgrant/ ============================= Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Paradoxes, Dad Jokes & Big Questions 04:20 What Is a Paradox? 10:15 The Grace Paradox 19:02 The Abilene Paradox 27:04 How to Avoid the Abilene Paradox 30:45 Guilty Pleasures: Twilight, Pitch Perfect & Eurovision 38:38 Aesthetic Chills & The Big Five 43:08 The Stockdale Paradox Explained 46:48 Gritty Facts vs. Gritty Faith 49:47 Why Leaders Need Paradoxical Thinking 51:04 MLK’s “I Have a Dream” Speech 55:39 Candor Over Consensus 57:32 Comfort vs. Courage 1:02:06 Jim Collins & The Genius of the And 1:06:48 Harvard's Anti-Grade Inflation Policy 1:09:21 How Brené Grades Group Projects 1:13:19 Building the Muscle to Hold Paradox 1:14:54 Personal Paradoxes & The Grace of Getting It Wrong Exploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature | The Curiosity Shop https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop

Adam GranthostBrené Brownhost
May 28, 20261h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Paradoxical thinking for leadership, relationships, learning, and cultural change today

  1. They define paradox as opposites coexisting and argue that “both/and” thinking is a core leadership and life skill rather than an “either/or” choice.
  2. The “grace paradox” (Richard Rohr) frames growth as emerging more from getting things wrong than from perfection, requiring comfort with complexity and ambiguity.
  3. The Abilene paradox explains how groups collectively choose outcomes nobody wants due to false assumptions about others’ preferences, and they discuss concrete ways to surface honest dissent.
  4. The Stockdale paradox highlights that durable hope requires pairing unwavering faith in eventual success with a rigorous confrontation of current brutal facts—especially relevant in leadership and social change.
  5. They connect paradox tolerance to education and evaluation (including Harvard’s anti–grade inflation policy and team grading) and argue that institutions should build capacity for candor, collaboration, and “just manageable difficulty.”

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Paradox is a practical skill, not a philosophical luxury.

They treat paradox tolerance as learnable “muscle” needed for parenting, teamwork, and leadership—holding tension long enough for better, novel solutions to emerge.

Growth often requires “getting it wrong” on purpose.

Rohr’s grace paradox (and Grant’s diving coach analogy) suggests improvement feels wrong while you’re changing; discomfort can be evidence of learning rather than failure.

Groups drift into bad decisions when people protect harmony over honesty.

The Abilene paradox shows how silence and mind-reading create false consensus; surfacing independent preferences early prevents collective regret and resentment.

Design meetings to reveal real preferences before social pressure kicks in.

They recommend mechanisms like anonymous brainwriting/voting, explicit check-ins, rotations (one person decides), and norms that make dissent safe and routine.

Hope without reality-testing becomes empty optimism; reality without hope becomes despair.

The Stockdale paradox (“gritty facts + gritty faith”) is positioned as a leadership necessity: face brutal truths while sustaining agency, pathways, and goals (Snyder’s hope framework).

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

“We must learn to accept paradoxes, or we will never love anything or see it correctly.”

Richard Rohr (quoted by Brené Brown)

“This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end, which you can never afford to lose, with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”

Admiral Jim Stockdale (quoted by Brené Brown)

Everybody went because they assumed everyone else wanted to go, and nobody voiced their real preference.

Adam Grant

I think the one leadership skill that I would say in the last 12 months has risen almost to the top of what I think we need to be teaching leaders, students, is paradoxical thinking.

Brené Brown

I think we need to care more about candor than consensus.

Adam Grant

Paradox as both/and thinkingRichard Rohr and the grace paradoxAbilene paradox and preference misreadsStockdale paradox: faith plus brutal factsAesthetic chills and Big Five opennessComfort vs. courage; candor vs. consensusGrades, incentives, and group project evaluation

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