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The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam GrantThe Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

What Great Teams Teach Us About Trust, Grief, and Courage | The Curiosity Shop

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do. #BrenéBrown #AdamGrant #thecuriosityshop Don't miss a video! Subscribe NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop About The Curiosity Shop: Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop features two of the world's most sought-after experts on connection, change, and leadership making the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. New episodes drop every Thursday. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Connect with The Curiosity Shop: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1730985049 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3oEPsPKDhPVoNNL7pH5db6?si=e2483abb4eed4b03 Connect with Brené Brown: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brenebrown/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenebrown/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brenebrown/ Connect with Adam Grant: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/ X: https://x.com/adammgrant/ ============================= Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Curiosity Shop 1:18 The Spurs, Popovich & Psychological Safety 7:37 Why Caring Takes Courage 9:28 The Courage to Share Your Goals 13:47 Brené's Story of Rejection and Failure 17:55 Pregnancy, Miscarriage & Who We Tell 20:57 The Kvetching Circle: Comfort In, Dump Out 28:25 Grief as Unexpressed Love 34:39 howing Up at Funerals Builds Trust 35:03 Sandy Hook, Loss & Human Connection 42:40 Grief in Teams and Organizations 44:40 Gregg Popovich's Leadership Philosophy 51:07 How Shame Shapes Performance and Behavior 1:03:55 The Science of Great Coaching 1:06:40 Fear, Roller Coasters & Parenting What Great Teams Teach Us About Trust, Grief, and Courage | The Curiosity Shop https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop Show Notes: https://thecuriosityshop.com/podcast/what-great-teams-teach-us-about-trust-grief-and-courage/

Brené BrownhostAdam Granthost
Jun 4, 20261h 9mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Great teams build trust through courage, grief literacy, and kindness

  1. Using the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich as a model, they argue that psychological safety enables both emotional expression and elite performance in hyper-competitive environments.
  2. They frame “caring out loud” and publicly naming what you want (goals, ambitions) as an underappreciated form of vulnerability and courage, especially because it risks visible disappointment and shame.
  3. They examine grief—including miscarriage, suicide loss, and mass tragedy—showing how community support (and even simply showing up) builds trust, while silence and comfort-seeking deepen isolation.
  4. They introduce practical relational tools such as concentric “comfort in, dump out” circles and distinguish cognitive empathy (holding space) from affective empathy (absorbing feelings) to prevent burnout.
  5. They review evidence that shame-based coaching and abusive leadership harm long-term performance by driving concealment, dysregulation, and lasting scars, even if short-term compliance improves.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Psychological safety is a performance technology, not a “soft” perk.

Wembanyama’s “it feels safe—if I fall, people will pick me up” illustrates how trust reduces fear of judgment, making it easier to take risks, learn fast, and recover from setbacks.

Caring visibly takes courage because it makes loss and disappointment public.

They connect emotional openness (e.g., celebrating or crying after a win) with safe cultures: when judgment drops, people can care without needing a “nonchalant” shield.

Sharing your goals is an act of vulnerability that invites both support and exposure.

Public goals can increase accountability, but people avoid them because failure becomes socially legible (“everyone will know you’re hurting”); selectively sharing with “marble jar” people balances risk and support.

Silence around miscarriage and other losses multiplies grief with shame.

When no one knows you were pregnant, you grieve alone and also carry the burden of disclosure; talking with a trusted inner circle can reduce isolation and normalize a common but hidden experience.

Use “comfort in, dump out” to prevent hurting the person closest to the pain.

Support should flow inward (toward the person most affected), while venting and processing should flow outward to more distant circles, so the core person isn’t forced to carry others’ emotions too.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

No, it feels safe. It feels like if I were to fall, there are people there to pick me up.

Brené Brown (quoting Victor Wembanyama)

Letting the people around you that you trust know how much you want something is courage.

Brené Brown

You comfort in, and you dump out.

Adam Grant

Grief was unexpressed love.

Adam Grant

You can change a child's behavior with shame on a dime. But you are forever changing who they are.

Brené Brown

Spurs culture and psychological safety“Nonchalant is over; caring is in”Vulnerability of sharing goalsRejection, failure, and shame responsesPregnancy loss, miscarriage, and silenceKvetching circle (comfort in, dump out)Grief, funerals, and trust at workSandy Hook, gun reform, and human connectionPopovich leadership: love, discipline, dissentShame-based coaching and performance costsCognitive vs affective empathyAngry halftime speech research (moderation and rarity)

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