The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam GrantWhat Great Teams Teach Us About Trust, Grief, and Courage | The Curiosity Shop
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:18
LEGO vs. DUPLO: Play, personality, and small rituals of connection
Brené and Adam open with a playful debate about building toys, using it as a quick window into personality, comfort, and creativity. The banter sets a relational tone that mirrors the episode’s bigger themes: safety, playfulness, and connection in high-stakes environments.
- 1:18 – 7:37
The Spurs, Popovich, and what psychological safety looks like in elite competition
The conversation turns to the San Antonio Spurs’ culture and Gregg Popovich’s leadership. Brené highlights a moment where Wembanyama describes the legacy around him not as pressure but as safety—people who will “pick me up” if I fall.
- 7:37 – 9:28
“Nonchalant is over, caring is in”: why visible caring takes courage
Brené connects Wembanyama’s emotional expression to a safe team environment where he won’t be judged for caring. They examine the cultural habit of pretending not to care to avoid the vulnerability of disappointment.
- 9:28 – 13:47
The courage to share goals: wanting something out loud without control of the outcome
Brené argues that telling trusted people what you want is an act of courage because it exposes you to visible hurt if you fail. Adam links this to research on public goals and realizes why people still keep ambitions private despite benefits of accountability and support.
- 13:47 – 17:55
Brené’s rejection story: Daring Greatly launch-day silence, shame, and the cost of pretending you don’t care
Brené shares a painful professional memory: arriving in New York for a dream book tour only to learn no interviews were booked, leaving her alone in a hotel room for days. The story illustrates how quickly shame can attach to ambition—and how support matters most when outcomes disappoint.
- 17:55 – 20:57
Pregnancy and miscarriage: who we tell, silence, and the hidden layers of grief
They explore the dilemma of when to share pregnancy news and how miscarriage compounds grief when no one knew about the pregnancy. Adam recounts Allison’s miscarriage and the painful discovery that many people have similar stories but rarely talk about them.
- 20:57 – 28:25
The Kvetching Circle: “comfort in, dump out” as a practical grief-and-support map
Adam explains the concentric-circle model for support: comfort those closest to the pain and seek your own processing from people farther out. Brené connects it to caregiving grief and why partners/families can struggle when everyone is overwhelmed at the same time.
- 28:25 – 34:39
Grief as unexpressed love—and the loss of ordinary life
They discuss grief as “unexpressed love” and how avoidance by others can deprive mourners of a chance to express it. Brené emphasizes the under-acknowledged grief of losing the ordinary routines of life—what people crave most after tragedy.
- 34:39 – 35:03
Showing up at funerals builds trust: what leaders do that earns belief and loyalty
Brené shares a striking leadership research finding: after “asking for help,” one of the top trust-builders is attending funerals that matter to colleagues. She recounts a story of a team showing up for a coworker after a suicide loss and then explicitly offering to talk—or not—on her terms.
- 35:03 – 42:40
Sandy Hook: empathy, human connection, and the case for responsibility-centered gun reform
Brené describes being invited to meet Sandy Hook parents and experiencing panic and uncertainty about what she could offer. A simple human gesture—sharing photos of her own children—created connection, reinforcing how grief can be met with normal human reciprocity rather than pity or silence.
- 42:40 – 44:40
Grief in teams and organizations: the myth that avoiding hard topics protects performance
They bridge tragedy back to team culture: real trust is revealed by whether teammates show up during personal hardship. Brené argues leaders must “excavate” grief in the locker room and workplace rather than bury it under comfort-based myths about productivity.
- 44:40 – 51:07
Popovich’s leadership philosophy: discipline + love, diverse perspectives, and the stonecutter mindset
They return to Popovich as an example of high standards paired with care. Brené highlights how he values empathetic joy, diversity of experience and thought, and long-horizon effort—captured by the Jacob Riis “stonecutter” quote in the Spurs locker room.
- 51:07 – 1:03:55
How shame shapes performance: concealment, dysregulation, and long-term scarring
Adam shares research showing abusive coaching harms players’ performance long after the coach is gone. Brené explains shame’s mechanisms—especially concealment—and why linking worthiness to performance damages individuals across sports, workplaces, medicine, and families.
- 1:03:55 – 1:06:40
The science of great coaching: when anger motivates (rarely) and why fear ‘works’ only short-term
They examine why shame and fear appear effective: they can produce immediate behavioral compliance, misleading leaders about long-term costs. Adam cites evidence that angry halftime speeches help only when anger is moderate and out-of-character—underscoring the power of a normally safe, steady coach.
- 1:06:40 – 1:09:30
Fear, roller coasters, and parenting: choosing bravery for your kids
They close with a lighter but resonant metaphor: roller coasters, fear exposure, and “dad school” bravery. The discussion echoes earlier themes—courage isn’t the absence of fear, but showing up anyway for the people you love.
