Ivan Toney Finally Opens Up About His Ban & Reveals His Preferred Future Team!

Steven Bartlett 0:00 In May, 2016, you did a famous tweet. "I'll speak soon with no filter." You ready to speak?

Ivan Toney 0:07 100%. Ivan Toney! Ivan Toney.

Steven Bartlett 0:10 Ivan Toney handed an eight-month ban.

Ivan Toney 0:13 Seismic news for the Premier League. (crowd cheering) That sums it all up. Football is brutal. At 15, being rejected at Leicester. At 18, I got to Wolves, got a squad number, took the pictures. Out of nowhere, the club said, "We're not looking to sign you no more. You have scoliosis in your back."

Steven Bartlett 0:27 Has it affected your game?

Ivan Toney 0:28 Toney! Ivan Toney! I don't feel like it has. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. I'm built different.

Steven Bartlett 0:35 Ivan Toney has won his first England call-up. You missed out on the final World Cup squad. Do you know why?

Ivan Toney 0:40 The allegations. Somebody's out to get me to stop me from playing for England. Ivan Toney-

Steven Bartlett 0:45 ... has been suspended for eight months-

Ivan Toney 0:47 ... with breaching betting rules.

Steven Bartlett 0:49 I read the whole FA report. You acknowledged that you lied in that meeting with the FA.

Ivan Toney 0:52 I didn't lie, I just couldn't really remember.

Steven Bartlett 0:54 You admit to doing 32 breaches.

Ivan Toney 0:55 The majority of those, I didn't do, but I took responsibility, so the whole process could be cleared up.

Steven Bartlett 1:00 But, uh, the bit I just struggle with is the using someone else to do the bets. You'd said to your mate, "I can't have that one in my name," bets for your team to lose.

Ivan Toney 1:07 It's a bigger story.

Steven Bartlett 1:09 What impact was it having on your life?

Ivan Toney 1:11 With me, I never show nothing. I don't show emotions. So there's been times I've just ... I'm in a room on my own, just looking to thin air and just ... It hurt. When I'm back, though, I do the talking on my feet.

Steven Bartlett 1:22 You gonna get back to football? Clubs are going to come knocking?

Ivan Toney 1:24 The next club I go to, if I was to move, it would be (beep) . (dramatic music)

Steven Bartlett 1:30 Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you, and enjoy this episode. (upbeat music)

Steven Bartlett 2:02 I always believe that to understand a person, you have to understand their earliest years. I kind of see our earliest years as the, like, oven that we're formed in. So if I, if, if you take me back to your earliest years, what do I need to know about you to understand the man you are today? What were the characteristics of that environment that shaped you?

Ivan Toney 2:21 Just out the front of ... Where I live is like, on the front is a park, and like, the older guys would just be out the front playing and there's me at like, 7, 8, trying to get involved, and these guys are like, 15, 16. And (laughs) they were playing rough.

Steven Bartlett 2:37 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 2:37 No matter if you're 8, 9, 10 trying to play with us, play with them, they're gonna be rough, so that kinda helped me into today's game, how I am now, progress a lot quicker. And like, even when I was like, 16, breaking through at Northampton, I kind of had that bashing around at a young age by the older guys. So being 16, getting bashed around by men, let's say, I was kinda like, used to it.

Steven Bartlett 3:03 What about hard work? What was your ... Were you a hardworking man at that age?

Ivan Toney 3:08 In terms of running and that, I never liked running. (laughs) I was, I was always the lazy one at the back of the, uh, uh, the back of the group, 'cause I knew when it's time to get on the pitch, I would score goals. But, like, we all know, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. So it's like, kinda like, if you, if you've got the talent and you can work on the hard work and put them both together, then you give yourself the best chance of becoming a top athlete.

Steven Bartlett 3:34 And you, and you put the work in to improve that part of your game and attitude?

Ivan Toney 3:39 Yeah, I had to. Because there was, when I was training, like, when I was at Leicester, I got told I wasn't getting a scholarship there, so then I went to ... I didn't really wanna play football as much, 'cause being rejected at Leicester, it's kinda like, "Oh, okay, let me just chill for now." But then like, my parents were just like, "Go to, go to Northampton." 'Cause there was a game that we played Northampton when I was at Leicester, and then I think Northampton said, "If anybody gets released from them, let us know." I think Leicester must have put me in touch with Northampton, and I was, I was kinda like, um-ing and ah-ing about going. But then I ended up going, and it was kinda like, everybody's playing for a scholarship, and then it was, like, on the last day, everybody already knows they're getting a scholarship, and I was the only one that wasn't told. So everyone is in the dressing room talking, "Ah, have we got a scholarship, scholarship?" And I'm there, still on trial, thinking, "When am I getting told?" And it wasn't until the next morning, on the meeting, like the first meeting where all the scholarship players joined up, I got a phone call and said, "He's got a scholarship. We'd like him to come down and ..." I think that point was kinda like, "Okay, I got a scholarship. This is my chance

Ivan Toney 4:57 now."

Steven Bartlett 4:58 But there was a moment there where you were, because of the rejection from Leicester, you were considering doing something else with your life.

Ivan Toney 5:04 Yeah, I feel like nobody likes rejection. Like (laughs) , being rejected is not the best feeling. And it being like, basically you're not good enough-

Steven Bartlett 5:14 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 5:14 ... to be playing football. I, how I saw it, you're not good enough to be playing football. Even though it was just, I'm not good enough for Leicester, I might be good enough somewhere else. Somebody else might value what, my qualities a lot more than Leicester did.

Steven Bartlett 5:26 It's hard to see that in the moment though, isn't it?

Ivan Toney 5:27 It's, uh, yeah, it's very hard. It's very hard, and-

Steven Bartlett 5:29 At, what was it, how old, 16?

Ivan Toney 5:31 It was like, 15, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 5:32 15?

Ivan Toney 5:32 Yeah. It's kinda like, you don't wanna, you don't really want that rejection again.

Steven Bartlett 5:39 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 5:39 It's like, a kind of fear of getting that again. Then when I did, like I said, when I got the scholarship and just knew it wasn't happening again.

Steven Bartlett 5:49 'Cause your journey through football, just generally, has been a real climb. You know? It's been a real, real climb. Like, and also, I reflect on the fact that most, so many kids at that age, 16 years old, they get, they get a rejection and they don't bounce back from it. And if they don't make it to the very top, they'll often...... take that badly and pursue a different career path. But, you were rejected at 16, you persevered, you got into the team at North Hampton, you made a good, um, good impression there, and then eventually you end up at Newcastle at what, 19?

Ivan Toney 6:20 18.

Steven Bartlett 6:21 18 years old.

Ivan Toney 6:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 6:22 How was that experience?

Ivan Toney 6:25 It was crazy. First time away from home at such a young age, 18 is like... And as well, you thought you was a man.

Steven Bartlett 6:34 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 6:34 Like from week two, there was talks of you going to a Premier League team. And like, I would- I would never in the North Hampton changing room feel like I was a man. Like there was talks going on, but nothing's done until it's done. So it's kind of like... Actually, before I was going to Newcastle, I was supposed to go to Wolves.

Steven Bartlett 6:54 Right.

Ivan Toney 6:56 But, and I've got there, I've got to Wolves, um, I've met everybody, went in the changing rooms, got my s- number on. Met, uh... Took the pictures. They come to the, the contract side. And then I think there was a bit of talk with my agent and the club on certain things, and then they related back to us. My-- it was all just confused me and my family, didn't know what was going on. And then out of nowhere the club come out and said, um, "We're not looking to sign you no more due to you having scoliosis in your back." So it was just ... We was so confused from getting a squad number, meeting all the players, meeting all the staff, and then for them to come out and say "Your scoliosis in your- in your back, we wasn't- we're not looking to sign you." It's kind of like, is that really the reason? Is there more behind it? But then, be- from going- having to go back to North Hampton. Like I said my goodbyes at North Hampton and I'm supposed to be going to Southampton Wolves then the next day I'm back in North Hampton and training with the boys. Everybody's like, "What's happening?" And the manager sat me down and listen- said, "Listen, don't dwell on that. I'm sure other things will come in- come into place." And I think a few weeks later Newcastle were interested and I went there.

Steven Bartlett 8:18 Scoliosis in your back? What is scoliosis and were they aware that you had scoliosis?

Ivan Toney 8:23 I feel like they was aware because before we set up to see a specialist because they- they- they... I feel like they wanted to know what was going on, how bad it was 'cause I think certain scoliosis, it stops you from walking at a certain age and just gets worse and worse. But, I feel like... I- uh, we did see a specialist, he said, "You'd be lucky to be walking at 28 still."

Steven Bartlett 8:47 Really?

Ivan Toney 8:48 Yeah. And then I was just... Like it doesn't really register, like you're thinking at the time at 18 I'm thinking, well, I'm fine now. I'm- I'm enjoying football now so it's... Don't really register but being 27 (laughs) , closer to 28 you kind of think, well, I'm strong, fit and healthy. Touch wood continuously so...

Steven Bartlett 9:11 What is scoliosis?

Ivan Toney 9:12 When your back's not straight.

Steven Bartlett 9:14 Damn.

Ivan Toney 9:15 It's like got a slight-

Steven Bartlett 9:16 Bend in your back?

Ivan Toney 9:17 Yeah, yeah. A bend.

Steven Bartlett 9:19 It hasn't affected your game?

Ivan Toney 9:20 I don't feel like it has. And go- yeah, going back to moving to Newcastle is like going from week two to Premier League is (laughs) it's crazy. Like as soon as I've- as soon as I went there... At North Hampton you get recognized but it's not crazy. And then going to there, Newcastle, I'm in the hotel, everybody's recognizing me straight away. There's like a crowd outside the hotel waiting to see me and it's kind of like, at 18 this is all happening. It's so fast. But-

Steven Bartlett 9:55 You're away from home as well.

Ivan Toney 9:56 Away from home.

Steven Bartlett 9:57 Damn.

Ivan Toney 9:58 A long way as well (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 9:59 What are you f- what are you feeling when- when Newcastle make that phone call and they- they say they're interested in you and then you move there? What does it feel like as an 18-year-old? 'Cause I can only imagine. I'm- I was- I was always playing football when I was younger, I was always hoping a little bit to be a footballer, knew I wasn't good enough-

Ivan Toney 10:12 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 10:12 ... but, you know. I'm going with that whole got injured at 16 bullshit. (laughs)

Ivan Toney 10:18 (laughs) Yeah, it- it is crazy. It is crazy. You... The s- it's so exciting, like you want to tell everybody. You want to say, "Oh, I'm going here tomorrow. Yeah, I'm going here, I'm going here." But with me, how I am, nothing's done till it's done.

Steven Bartlett 10:31 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 10:31 Especially after the Wolves stuff.

Steven Bartlett 10:33 Yeah.

Ivan Toney 10:33 Like that was on the back of my mind so I'm thinking, right, just wait until it's all sorted then you can tell everyone. When I'm so excited I- I just want to tell this person, that person, this is happening. So it was- yeah, it was- it was crazy. My head was all over the place and thinking, "I'm actually going to the Premier League like I've made it. I'm here." But little did I know is (laughs) how far from I made it.

Steven Bartlett 10:59 What happened?

Ivan Toney 11:02 I feel like when you take that step you get- you get noticed more. You get more money. And you s- just do silly things like, like you get mixed in the wrong crowd going out here and there buying things you wouldn't normally buy. Just a bit naive and as well being away from my family, although they kept on telling me, "Don't be- do nothing silly. Look after your money," and this and that, you kind of think, okay, but they're not here to control what I've got hold of right now. I can spend it on this, I can spend it on that. Like you just do things you- like I said, things you'd never normally do. Like we're getting personal shoppers to come to the house and who do I think I am? Go- go to the shop and buy it yourself-

Steven Bartlett 11:54 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 11:54 ... stuff if you want to do that. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 11:57 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 11:57 So it's like these kind of things. But yeah, I think it... It didn't come at me fast, I wouldn't say that. I'd say just like a surprise kind of thing like-... like I said, I thought I'd made it. So whatever happens, I'm fine. I'm in the Premier League.

Steven Bartlett 12:15 What was the advice that you needed at that point that you didn't get? Like, if you could go back now and have a chat with Ivan and say-

Ivan Toney 12:20 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 12:20 ... "Listen, bro." You arrive at Newcastle that day, and you get w- a chance just to say a couple of things to him. What do you say?

Ivan Toney 12:26 I'd sit down and have a long chat with him. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 12:29 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 12:29 It would be a long chat. (laughs) No, I think I'd just say like, "This is where the hard work starts. It's not finished. You're not- you can't put it on cruise control. You've got to go to extra gear." Like, yeah, I'm at a Premier League club, but I haven't played yet. (laughs) I've not got continuous games under my belt to be saying, "Okay, I'm a Premier League player now." So it's like, I'd say to, yeah, a younger Ivan, or anybody that's in that situation going, doing such a big jump, to say, "That's when the hard work starts."

Steven Bartlett 13:01 Were you in cruise control, do you think?

Ivan Toney 13:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 13:04 Yeah?

Ivan Toney 13:05 If, if I, if I even was moving, I'd probably put the handbrake on. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 13:08 Really? (laughs)

Ivan Toney 13:09 Yeah. I just thought, "I'm Premier League now." And as well, you're seeing all the big boys, like, literally training there. It's like, "Yeah, I'm here now."

Steven Bartlett 13:22 And you played two games-

Ivan Toney 13:23 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 13:23 ... before they loaned you out.

Ivan Toney 13:24 Yeah. I come off the bench twice against United and

Ivan Toney 13:28 Chelsea.

Steven Bartlett 13:29 And then you went on quite a long loan spell. Barnsley, Shrewsbury, Wigan, Scunthorpe. When you find out you're getting loaned out, how do you receive that as a player? I've always wondered this. When you're a young player in the club, big- you're in the Premier League, 'cause I think that's a lot about Manchester United, as being a fan, we always loan out our, like, younger lads. And I wonder how, how that's positioned to you as a player, and how you receive it.

Ivan Toney 13:52 It's not the best feeling.

Steven Bartlett 13:53 Okay.

Ivan Toney 13:54 'Cause a- at the time, it's kind of like, "What, do you not want me here?"

Steven Bartlett 13:57 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 13:57 Like, (laughs) I'm here, now you want to send me away like?

Steven Bartlett 14:01 Yeah. And you've got the personal shopper coming over, so you need to- (laughs)

Ivan Toney 14:02 Exactly. Yeah, yeah. (laughs) So I need to-

Steven Bartlett 14:04 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 14:04 I need to sort some things out to be- (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 14:07 You can't be in Shrewsbury. (laughs)

Ivan Toney 14:08 Yeah. I don't think they'd travel that far, but... (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 14:10 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 14:11 But no, yeah, I feel like, like it's at that age, you don't really think what you're going on loan for. I mean, first team experience is the c- is probably the best at that age as well. And like, knowing like, 'cause I feel like, no disrespect to youth team football, it's cool, like tic-a-tac-of pretty football. Then going to League One, like I said, on loan, you're going to get bashed around, so you need to be ready for that physical battle. And I feel like going on loan definitely helped me. Looking back now, it helped me a lot. But at the time, I was thinking, "I don't need to go on loan. I'm ready to be playing in the Premier League." I feel like from young, I've always had that, that my dad always told me, "No matter where you are, if you have that mentality that you're a Premier League player, but at the moment you're just on League One, that's fine. But if you don't have that mentality that I'm a Premier League player, so I don't need to try here, then (laughs) it's not going to work out." So it doesn't matter where you are. If you have the mentality, "I should be playing in the Prem, but right now, I'm playing here." That's fine. And I feel like you'll, you'll go, you'll go a long way to where I am now. I'm a Premier League player, and that bit of advice that my dad gave me was, was very key.

Steven Bartlett 15:32 When you went off on loan, and they say, "Okay, you're leaving Newcastle now," does that take you out of cruise control and into like, "Right, I've got something to prove again"?

Ivan Toney 15:39 It should. It should of.

Steven Bartlett 15:41 But it didn't?

Ivan Toney 15:41 But it didn't really, 'cause I always believed that no matter what happened, where I went, I'm going back to Newcastle. So no matter if I played, didn't play at all, or played rubbish, I'm going back to Newcastle, back to the Premier League. But not knowing the effects that could have, or it did have in the end. Even though I think all the clubs I went to, bar one, I was f- I left top goalscorer. But it was like, I could have, looking back, I feel like I could have went that extra step further.

Steven Bartlett 16:17 You had a good spell as well at Scunthorpe United. Six goals in 15 appearances. Showed a huge promise while you were on your loan spells as a prolific goal scorer. And then at 22 years old, you transferred to Peterborough United after failing to secure a regular place at Newcastle. Now that, that must have been an interesting moment, because that's kind of like another knockback innit? Goes back to like Leicester, the Leicester rejection and stuff. That's like another step down. You've made it to the Prem, and now you've got, got to take a step down.

Ivan Toney 16:52 Yeah. It was a mass- not, actually not, I wouldn't say a massive not- knockback. It was a knockback, but it was kind of like, maybe a knockback I needed at the time. Because like, I remember sitting down with my dad and the a- my agent at the time, and saying, "Listen." Like, me and, me and my dad are brutal. Whoever we work with, we want the, we want the honest, honest truth. No matter if they say, "We don't want him. He's not good enough for us." I'd rather my agent tell me that. But how the relationship was at the agent- with my agent at the time, he kind of sugar-coat things.

Steven Bartlett 17:25 Right.

Ivan Toney 17:26 So me and my dad kind of had to get out of him, "What did the club say? Like, just tell us. Be honest." And his words were, "The club don't think you're good enough already at the time, at this moment in time." So it was kind of like in my head, it was like, "Okay, fine. No problem." It's time for me to go elsewhere, then regroup and restart. It wasn't like I was too old. It was just, it was just a knockback and setback that, like I said, at the time, probably needed to kickstart my journey again.

Steven Bartlett 17:55 Do you think Newcastle were right in saying that?

Ivan Toney 17:58 Um, possibly. Like, don't get me wrong, Newcastle are a great club. They had some, they've had some great players and doing very well at the moment. But I feel like I didn't really have a chance in the first team to prove if I was good, good enough.... I feel personally, anyway. I know, to be fair, at the time was when Newcastle were fighting to stay, stay up in the Premier League when Rafa Benitez first come in.

Steven Bartlett 18:26 Oh, yeah.

Ivan Toney 18:28 So it's kind of understandable he wanted these players to try and keep them up.

Steven Bartlett 18:34 With wanted experience and stuff more than, like, to be giving youth, younger players a chance and stuff? Is that what you're saying?

Ivan Toney 18:41 Yeah, I feel like, I mean, you can't really put so much responsibility on youth players or young players to keep you up in the Premier League 'cause it's such a big ask. But I feel like maybe the s- the following season it was kind of like, could he get a sniff? And I think he kind of brought his, his, his own players in and done his own, own thing, which is, that's foot, that's football.

Steven Bartlett 19:03 So off you go to Peterborough. Um, you're closer to your family at this point?

Ivan Toney 19:07 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:07 Which helps.

Ivan Toney 19:08 A lot closer, yeah. I'm a mummy's boy at heart, so I need my mum around, close.

Steven Bartlett 19:14 And did it change your attitude moving to Peterborough, on like this whole cruise control thing? Did it-

Ivan Toney 19:19 Yeah, it did, and especially when I went to, first went to Peterborough, I wasn't playing. Like the first, I'd say, 10 games, the strikers that were in front of me was scoring every game, assisting, playing well. But the manager at the time, Steve Evans, was just saying, "Don't worry, your chance will come, and when your chance comes, it's up to you to take it."

Steven Bartlett 19:44 And your chance came.

Ivan Toney 19:46 Yeah, and then-

Steven Bartlett 19:47 And you took it. (laughs)

Ivan Toney 19:47 Ah yeah, 100% took it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 19:49 You scored 24 goals in 32 League One games at Peterborough, which is insane.

Ivan Toney 19:55 Yeah, I feel like, yeah, like, well, the, like, the, the competition's all over the field, but especially as, as a striker you need to, your job's to score goals. And especially when the other two are scoring goals, if you get that one sniff and you don't score, you're back out again and it gives him another opportunity.

Steven Bartlett 20:13 The director of, um, football at Peterborough said you were an incredibly hard worker. He also said you were their best defender because you headed away nine out of ten corners.

Ivan Toney 20:21 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 20:23 So, yeah.

Ivan Toney 20:23 I feel like, yeah, them games I kind of had a magnet on my head that was just bringing the ball towards me. But, yeah, no, I think the hard work as well. Like, when, when I'm loved by a manager, I feel like, and a club, I feel like it's in me to want to give back. I want to do a lot of things for, like run through a brick wall for the manager that's wanted me in this position.

Steven Bartlett 20:48 Did they become like proxy father figures to you in that regard? 'Cause you're clearly a man that's close to your father.

Ivan Toney 20:53 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 20:54 Did they kind of... You know, you see what I'm saying? Is that, is it a similar relationship, like a, where you want to do them proud?

Ivan Toney 21:00 Yeah, 100%. And especially when I signed, like, with, with, when I first signed for Peterborough with Steve Evans, like, the first time he spoke to me he was just, it was like a friend, like a normal chat. Even though he got the respect as a manager, but he was saying, "Listen, I want you to come in, score goals and go, go, go, go higher."

Steven Bartlett 21:19 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 21:19 "Like, the goals you score for us benefits you and us, 'cause we're going to go higher, and you're going to go higher. So it's a win-win." And I think him putting an arm around me at that time, knowing I've come from a Premier League club and saying, "It's not really a knock back. This is where you kick, kick start your journey again." Having that, I think, definitely helped me.

Steven Bartlett 21:44 And did, didn't you have a, I read somewhere that you had a agreement with them, like a verbal agreement that if a bigger club came knocking they wouldn't stand in your way at Peterborough?

Ivan Toney 21:52 That probably was a verbal agreement, but if anybody knows the Peterborough (laughs) Peterborough staff and the owners, then they probably have different ideas. But, I mean, yeah, I guess when I did go, that was the right timing. Like, every, every player thinks when there's a move on the cards you want to try and rush it through, and if things aren't right they, they're not right for a reason. Like, you can't rush good things. Good things aren't rushed. I think at the time there was a chance I could have went to somewhere and tried to rush it through and he was like, "Don't worry."

Steven Bartlett 22:23 Oh, really? So there was offers from other clubs?

Ivan Toney 22:25 There was offers from other clubs, yeah, but-

Steven Bartlett 22:26 Big clubs?

Ivan Toney 22:27 Um, big-ish at the time.

Steven Bartlett 22:29 Okay.

Ivan Toney 22:30 So-

Steven Bartlett 22:30 Like championship clubs?

Ivan Toney 22:31 Yeah, championship clubs, and he was saying, "Just, just be patient. You're gonna get a better, better club." And I'm just there, like, not kicking my, not throwing my toys out the pram, just being like, "Well, this is just a chance to move now. Who's to know what can happen?" Blah, blah, blah. And then I ended up staying and, and I went to Brentford, which was probably the best (laughs) choice

Ivan Toney 22:54 in the end.

Steven Bartlett 22:54 And yeah, around this time, I mean, just before then, at 21 years old, you become a father for the first time.

Ivan Toney 22:58 Yeah. I mean, that's, that's as well what helped me kick start my journey as, as well, 'cause I feel like I've got people to provide for. Um, I have expensive taste as well, so it's either choosing my expensive taste or (laughs) my family.

Steven Bartlett 23:15 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 23:16 So if I could score goals and help both, then it's perfect. So I think that's what helped me pick things up and had to provide for people.

Steven Bartlett 23:27 Does, does that focus you? 'Cause I'm not a dad yet, but I, it's around the corner for me, I'm sure. Um, does that focus your priorities in a sense? Like, does it make... 'Cause I, I speak to my, my mates who have all had kids and they almost describe that moment when their baby first comes, they kind of see the world differently and their, like, responsibilities differently and stuff.

Ivan Toney 23:45 100%. 100%. Like, you can't do the things you normally do. You have to think baby first (laughs) in all aspects. It's like-

Steven Bartlett 23:53 Did it make your game better?

Ivan Toney 23:55 100... Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 23:56 Really?

Ivan Toney 23:56 Yeah. 100% definitely.

Steven Bartlett 23:58 How?

Ivan Toney 23:59 Just in, like, I want to make him proud.

Steven Bartlett 24:01 Uh-huh.

Ivan Toney 24:01 So when he's older, "That's my dad. He's done this, he's doing this, this, this, this." So it's kind of like a pride thing as well as wanting to do well for my family and have a, have a better, better lifestyle for everybody, not just me and my people I provide

Ivan Toney 24:18 for.

Steven Bartlett 24:18 When, when did you find out that Brentford are interested?

Ivan Toney 24:21 It was actually training at St. George's Park-

Steven Bartlett 24:24 Yeah.

Ivan Toney 24:24 ... uh, with Peterborough. And there was talks of going here, there, and I was kinda like, I'm gonna know when, just like, yeah, when it's, when it's something concrete, then let me know. Uh, uh, right now, I just wanna focus on training hard 'cause it's easy to be led astray when this club's interested in you, this club's interested in you. You hear loads of things, but then nothing's concrete. Like it's, it's all well and good, "These are looking at you. These are looking at you." But this time, I'm not a kid no more.

Steven Bartlett 24:57 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 24:57 When they want me and put a bid in, then we can start talking. Whereas, hearing, "They're interested," what does that mean? (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 25:05 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 25:05 That doesn't mean nothing. Like everybody can be interested, but nobody wants you.

Steven Bartlett 25:10 Yeah, yeah.

Ivan Toney 25:10 So when Brentford come along and they were, they was interested and actually put a bid in, then it was kind-- it was like, okay. I spoke to the manager, and he kind of was straightforward and said, "You're gonna be coming in to be the main man. We want you to be starting every game and score goals and do your job, then either take us up or go to a, go to, go to a higher club."

Steven Bartlett 25:36 So you get that call from Brentford, they put a bid in. You speak to the manager, Thomas Frank?

Ivan Toney 25:41 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 25:41 And Thomas says, "Listen, you're gonna be our number one."

Ivan Toney 25:45 I think it was a no-brainer. I think I did speak to other clubs, um-

Steven Bartlett 25:50 What other clubs?

Ivan Toney 25:50 ... I went up, actually, I went up to Rangers.

Steven Bartlett 25:52 Oh, nice.

Ivan Toney 25:53 Spoke with, uh, the manager there, which was Steven Gerrard at the time.

Steven Bartlett 25:57 Hmm.

Ivan Toney 25:58 And-

Steven Bartlett 25:59 Manchester United, did you speak to-

Ivan Toney 26:01 Yeah, they said I wasn't good enough. (laughs) No, I'm playing-

Steven Bartlett 26:06 Oh, I was gonna say, I was like, "Fucking calling me up." (laughs)

Ivan Toney 26:07 (laughs) No, yeah, I went to, I went to, um, I went to Rangers. We spoke a bit, but then they said there was like two, I think there was two strikers at the time.

Steven Bartlett 26:16 Hmm.

Ivan Toney 26:17 And then they was looking to get another one in, so it would've been like four strikers, I think. And I think the formation they play is majority of the time, one striker at the top.

Steven Bartlett 26:25 So you would've been like third choice or something?

Ivan Toney 26:26 Yeah, something like this, uh, but, and then, uh, we went to Celtic. We spoke to Celtic, and I think it was like the same there. I'm, I'm one of three strikers or something like this. And I think at the time of when it was I was moving, I wanted to be like the main guy.

Steven Bartlett 26:44 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 26:45 Like, I think the crucial thing for me is playing games. Even though I back myself on competing with other strikers, but I only been knowing that when I go in, both first, first foot through the door. I'm the main man up front, and it's up to me to keep my position.

Steven Bartlett 27:00 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 27:01 And I felt like when I went to, uh, well, when I spoke to the manager at Brentford, he pretty much said, "You're the main guy, and I don't see nobody taking your spot. So y- you make sure you produce, produce the goods, and it's yours really."

Steven Bartlett 27:17 You, you've worked a lot of clubs. Um, you've played at a lot of different clubs. Brentford are special. They're really, really special 'cause they are, based on their resources, they are objectively overachieving in a really, really significant way. Um, what is it about Brentford from your experience that is make... What is that magic that they have?

Ivan Toney 27:40 Hard work, plain and simple. Hard work. Like we're not the best technically gifted team. We have some magicians in the team, but other than that, it's just hard work. I mean, and we fear nobody. We respect them, but we don't fear them. So when we go to, let's say, Anfield away, or Ch- Chelsea away, or these kinda games, we know they're probably on paper better than us, got some big names and this and that. But if the, the, the... At the end of the day, the main thing that wins the games is hard work and a little bit of quality, I guess, putting the ball in the back of the net. And I feel like throughout the, throughout the club, everybody knows what the manager wants. You have to, you have to be, you have to be willing to run for your teammate, the person to your left, the person to your right, and the fans and everybody. And everybody knows the responsibility they have on their shoulders when they step onto the pitch. So I think that's, that's probably what's brought us to where and how well we're doing at the moment. And even, like, at the moment, the team playing without me, I, I hear, and people say, "Oh, do you reckon Brentford gonna be like this now? You're not playing this and that." And I'm thinking, "No, they're not gonna struggle because (laughs) they, they work hard." And when you work hard, you give yourself the best chance of winning a game. And I, I, I know deep down Brentford will be fine with or without me.

Steven Bartlett 29:08 Well, you've played at a lot of clubs, right? So you can kinda compare and contrast. Is there anything else other than just that work ethic that you've noticed is just different at Brentford? So you've got super hard work. Is there anything else, the, their approach to things, or the strategy, or the way that they-

Ivan Toney 29:22 I feel like the to- togetherness as well, how everybody's like, everybody talks to everyone.

Steven Bartlett 29:28 Yeah.

Ivan Toney 29:28 And I've been at clubs whereas it's like a certain group sit there-

Steven Bartlett 29:32 Okay.

Ivan Toney 29:32 ... a certain group sit there, like everybody's divided. It's like, but it's not that at Brentford. Everybody mixes with everybody. Like you got people who are sp- Spanish, Danish, which is mo- majority of the club at the moment. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 29:44 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 29:44 Um, English, and everything. And everybody just mixes together. So it's not like, "Oh, let me... Where, where are my friends? Where should I sit down at lunch?" You just get your lunch, you sit down there, and you talk with whoever.

Steven Bartlett 29:59 And the manager?

Ivan Toney 30:01 That comes from him. I feel like he makes sure the togetherness and the humbleness, like there's no... Nobody at the club thinks they're better than nobody. Like even last season, I scored 20 goals. I wa- I wasn't about nobody. I was the same. A person that doesn't really play too much, they're not less of a person than me.

Steven Bartlett 30:22 Hmm.

Ivan Toney 30:22 We're all the same. We're all in it together.... so I feel like that comes from the manager, and his philosophy of the club and how he wants things to be run.

Steven Bartlett 30:31 One of the things that you, I often think with managers and CEOs and stuff like this, they have their, like, core principles, which you just get bored of hearing 'cause they say it over, and over, and over, and over again. What are those things that he just repeats over, and over, and over again?

Ivan Toney 30:44 Togetherness.

Steven Bartlett 30:44 Yeah.

Ivan Toney 30:45 Humble.

Steven Bartlett 30:46 Yeah.

Ivan Toney 30:47 And attitude.

Steven Bartlett 30:49 And I guess he polices that pretty-

Ivan Toney 30:51 Yeah. All the time. It's all over the club. It's, uh, all in the meetings, which is probably why, like I said, we do, we're doing so well as a club and as, as a, as a whole, whole unit.

Steven Bartlett 31:08 What's the, what's the dressing room, the training ground dressing room culture like? Again, I ask this 'cause I've spoken to so many players at United in particular, and especially in the Fergie years, they always talk about the, like, the, the self-policing culture in the dressing room. You know? Like, what's that like versus other clubs?

Ivan Toney 31:25 It's... Yeah. It's g- like, like I said, it's, yeah, it's good. Uh, the, there's other clubs I've been at where it's, it's been good as well, but not how it is in Brentford. I feel like Brentford is probably one of the best dressings I've been in in terms of everybody knows their drill, uh, everybody, everyone knows their position, everybody's helping others. Like, everybody's just, like, the respect if something's on the floor, tidy, pick it up, put it in there. Like, them kind of things is key if you wanna be achieving something big. And I feel like with that in the changing room, as well as in the gym or in the, in the, in the dinner hall, is, is key and everybody's up for everybody 'cause it's like one big family unit.

Steven Bartlett 32:11 26 years old, you're named Brentford's Player of the Season. Um, you scored 12 goals in the first Premier League season and then you scored 20 goals in your second Premier League season, finishing third in the Golden Boot rankings behind Haaland and Harry Kane. That's big.

Ivan Toney 32:28 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 32:30 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 32:30 It is big. It is big. But sometimes I don't really realize how big it is 'cause sometimes I'm at home and I'm thinking, "Yeah, but I'm not first." In my head, if you're not first, you're last. Then, like my family say, "Look who you're behind and look at the caliber of players that are playing in the Premier League, and you've scored more than these guys." I'm always thinking, "Yeah, but I could've scored more and-"

Steven Bartlett 32:54 You think you could score more than Haaland?

Ivan Toney 32:57 (laughs) What you got so far? It's like 30 something?

Steven Bartlett 33:00 36.

Ivan Toney 33:01 I mean, not- (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 33:03 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 33:05 I mean, not more, but I look back on chances that should've been a goal and I feel like there, there probably is like 15, 16 chances that I probably could've scored or should've scored. So if I was as clinical as Haaland was, not to say I would, I would beat him, but- (laughs) I could be a lot higher than, a lot higher than 20.

Steven Bartlett 33:27 England. England's football team. I saw, I think I saw a post on your Instagram a couple of weeks ago about that being a huge dream of you to play for England.

Ivan Toney 33:37 Yeah. I think everybody wants to play for England. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 33:42 Yeah. When you were a kid just kicking the ball at the shed.

Ivan Toney 33:45 Yeah. And I remember s- just screaming, like, Gerrard's name and Lampard's name, like, when I'm on the field just kicking and, like I said, when that opportunity was around and I was in talks of it, it just didn't, it didn't feel real from being Ivan from Northampton just playing out of the front, getting bashed around by the older lot to actually having the chance to play for England was something I would never have dreamt of.

Steven Bartlett 34:13 You missed out on the final World C- Cup squad. Um.

Ivan Toney 34:18 S-

Steven Bartlett 34:18 Lots of circulating rumors about why. Would you know why?

Ivan Toney 34:23 Um, I guess, I guess it comes down to allegations on the betting scandal, but I feel like, personally, I felt like it was a bit of a questionable time when they decided to bring it all out. And then when they actually dealt with the situation come the end of the season, it was kinda like, "Why'd you bring it out then to, uh, then punish me at the end of the season?"

Steven Bartlett 34:56 So they brought it, so you, I, I guess you're saying that you suspect they brought it out at that time to prevent you going to play for England?

Ivan Toney 35:02 I assume so and to make it a bigger story.

Steven Bartlett 35:04 Ah, okay.

Ivan Toney 35:05 Personally, anyway. I, I don't know if it's true. Like, how not to know what's behind the scenes, but I feel like if you have somebody going to the World Cup that's supposed to be betting, then it's kinda, like, a bigger story.

Steven Bartlett 35:22 What's the rel- I'm not very clued up on this wh- whole FA thing. So the FA, the England team play under the FA?

Ivan Toney 35:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 35:32 And the FA are also the sort of body that brought the charges against you?

Ivan Toney 35:36 Yep.

Steven Bartlett 35:36 So they, so one might assume that they released the charges at that point because if they didn't then there might be some ramifications on the England team or the perceptions of the England team or something?

Ivan Toney 35:47 Yeah, I assume so.

Steven Bartlett 35:48 Right.

Ivan Toney 35:48 Actually, like, like, I, I'm not too aware of all this stuff, but I feel like it's just a bit of a coincidence when they decided to bring it, it all out and then having to be dealt with the punishment at the end of the season so far after.

Steven Bartlett 36:05 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 36:05 It's kinda like, I mean, you know I, well, I feel like, yes, I'm banned now, but the biggest punishment for me was missing out on playing at the World Cup, personally. I felt more hurt and, what's the word, kinda like (smacks lips) hurt and...Yeah, I just- I just felt- I felt down around the time. I felt like somebody's out to get me at that time to stop me from playing for England. It was in my head, like, that's- that's how I s- seen it at the time. It's like they wanna punish me for this, missing out on England. The World Cup, like, that's everybody's dream, to be playing at the World Cup. And then further down the line, ban me as well. It's kinda like a double hit, I feel, in a sense, whereas, like I said, if you was gonna do- if you were gonna stop me from going to World Cup, do it there and then and deal with it. Just deal with the whole situation. Rather than doing that, missing out on the World Cup, and then letting me play the rest of the season, and then banning me after the season. Pff. It's- it doesn't add up in my head, to be fair, anyway.

Steven Bartlett 37:25 When you say, "I felt down about it," what does that mean in re- in real terms? If I was a fly on the wall, in your life when- when that information came in.

Ivan Toney 37:32 That was probably my... (clears throat) Excuse me. That was probably the, like, the lowest point. I was like... With me, I never show nothing. I don't show emotion too tough. But I think that was probably the lowest point I felt. Like, you'd ask me about it. I was, uh, "Yeah, it is what it is." But that it was- it's what it is, is kinda like...

Steven Bartlett 37:55 I don't wanna talk about it.

Ivan Toney 37:56 Yeah. Damn. It hurt. It did hurt.

Steven Bartlett 38:01 D- uh, do you cry?

Ivan Toney 38:05 No, I don't feel like crying solves anything. Personally, that's my personal views. Everybody says to me, "You need to show emotion. You can cry. It's, it's, it's okay," but like... I feel like I've only cried once when I see my nan cry from losing my pap and seeing her hurt as much as she was killed me inside. And then it was kinda like... I didn't cry-cry, but it was like tears in my eyes coming down. It was kinda like... It was painful.

Steven Bartlett 38:40 Did you express your, uh, how you're feeling to anyone in your life at that point? To your partner, to your family, your mum, your dad? When you- when you find out that you're not gonna play for England and they've sort- you know, the rumors are out about this gambling situation, do you tell anyone how you're actually feeling?

Ivan Toney 38:55 Um, no. But people that know me know my actions and wh- how that leads to how I'm feeling. Like, I'd be a lot more, like, snappy about things or I'd just be like... Like I could just be like there and someone would be talking to me and it's not like really registering, but my- my head's not really in the room kind of thing. And that people that know me know, like, something's up, something's wrong.

Steven Bartlett 39:25 What was the reality of the situation? What was going on inside your head? And how was it... When you say down and you say that was the lowest point, how- what- what does that mean in real terms?

Ivan Toney 39:37 Um, pff. I wouldn't say depressed as such, but it was kinda like not far off that. If anything, towards that direction, but not completely. 'Cause like, like still how I stay. In my head it's like, next opportunity, next- next day. Another day is another day to put things right and try and be as positive, like, as I can.

Steven Bartlett 40:04 Have you ever had an- anxiety?

Ivan Toney 40:08 Probably. But how I am (laughs) it- I don't let it get to me as much.

Steven Bartlett 40:14 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 40:15 Like, I'd say the lone spells. When- when I'm on loan, I'm in a room on my own, there's been times I've just literally sat there with- without the TV on, just- just sat there and just like chilling and just looking into thin air and just thinking about things. But I'd never... Like I said, I'd never like let nobody know how I'm feeling 'cause of how I am as a person. Uh, I feel like it- it- it eats away at me, but I'm just always the smiley one. Always, like, like you ask people at Brentford now. I'm the joker. I'm making sure everyone's fine, these kind of things. I think that's my kinda way of beating my emotions on... If I see this person happy from me doing that-

Steven Bartlett 41:08 Hmm.

Ivan Toney 41:08 ... then it kinda brings me up to make me happy kinda thing.

Steven Bartlett 41:13 Did you- did you not speak to anyone, like a professional, about- about this stuff? 'Cause I always think when we bottle up our emotions, it's not like they go away. It's like almost like they- they eat us up from inside and they- they come out in other ways, like you were saying. Snappiness or whatever or- you know.

Ivan Toney 41:29 Uh.

Steven Bartlett 41:29 Surely there's someone around you that said you need to see someone.

Ivan Toney 41:31 Yeah, there's- yeah, there was. But as well, me being stubborn is kinda like, "Nah, I'm fine. It's fine." Like, "I'll be all right ne- tomorrow. I'll be all right later. I'll be all right next week." I feel like I can speak to anybody in my family, but like, my stubbornness just don't allow me to.

Steven Bartlett 41:53 I think a lot of men can relate to that, you know?

Ivan Toney 41:55 Yeah. 100%. I- I feel like I do need to get better at that, personally.

Steven Bartlett 42:04 In May 20- 26th, uh, you did a famous tweet.

Ivan Toney 42:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 42:08 Do you know the tweet I'm talking about?

Ivan Toney 42:09 Yeah (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 42:11 "I'll speak soon with no filter." You ready to speak?

Ivan Toney 42:16 Um...

Steven Bartlett 42:18 And what- what did that tweet mean?

Ivan Toney 42:20 Um, that was just speak on everything really. But obviously when I done that, it went crazy and then, I think my family just said, "Listen, you don't need to talk. Just when you get on a pitch, let your feet do the talking."... but once the damage is done, you can't talk, and it's not gonna help no situation. If anything, could not damage my reputation or my career, but just make people think ... Not that I care what people think. It's just could put in the works that, "Who does he think he is?"

Steven Bartlett 42:54 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 42:55 That kind of thing. But it, it doesn't benefit no parties.

Steven Bartlett 42:57 What headspace were you in when you tweeted that?

Ivan Toney 42:59 Probably a reckless one.

Steven Bartlett 43:01 Really?

Ivan Toney 43:01 Yeah. Just thinking-

Steven Bartlett 43:02 How were you feeling?

Ivan Toney 43:04 Thinking, "Pfff, I don't care," attitude, I'd say.

Steven Bartlett 43:12 Kind of a defense mechanism against-

Ivan Toney 43:14 Pretty much, yeah. Against everybody. Like, even, like, little things. Like, for the whole situation. Not, not like with my friends. My friends are my friends, the ones I sit with. They're the people I, I chill with all the time. But it's even like when I go ... I don't know if it's just me thinking certain things, but it's like when I go certain places, like, maybe some people don't wanna be associated with me in a certain way of ... Obviously, j- because of media kind of thing, and it's kinda like ... Not killing their image, but it's kinda like, "You chilling with this guy? He's a match-fixer. He's v- he's match-fixing football. The, the ..." And, like, even, like, I remember at the time, when there was allegations, I wanted to go into a restaurant, and they was like, "No, you can't. Uh, we're not, we're, we're not taking you."

Steven Bartlett 44:05 The restaurant?

Ivan Toney 44:05 A restaurant. And I was like, "What do you mean?" They was, "Uh, 'cause the allegations, we're not allowing you in," or something like this. I was actually so confused. I was thinking, "For starters, it's allegations. And secondly, you're a restaurant. How can you not let someone in due to 'bad press'?" That's what they called it, bad press. I was just baffled, and even to, like, my, uh, my car insurance (laughs) . They wouldn't insure me due to the, the whole scandal. And I was just like, "A car insurance, they don't want me on their books because ... " Which was baffling.

Steven Bartlett 44:49 I read through the, the whole, um, FA report, many, many pages. I think it was, like, 25, 25-odd pages. I have it here. Just to understand the case better, just so I make, mak- made sure I didn't make any errors in my observations. But there's no ... I think there's actually a line in there where the commission say they, um, didn't believe that you were doing any match-fixing.

Ivan Toney 45:10 It was far from match-fixing.

Steven Bartlett 45:11 Yeah. I, I wrote that down in my, in my notes that, um, they concluded that you hadn't been match-fixing or anything like that in their report. Um, so that, that allegation from whoever said that, the restaurant or whatever, um, doesn't seem to have a basis in the report at all.

Ivan Toney 45:27 And I'm sure there was certain articles on saying match-fixing as well, which is, that's probably the media for you, making it big, talking point.

Steven Bartlett 45:38 When the FA first contact you and, and they ask ... They make a request for information, don't they? So they wanna know more information.

Ivan Toney 45:45 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 45:45 This is dating back to 2022, I believe. When you get that first contact, how does that feel? Like, your dad or your agent must have told you that the FA have been in touch.

Ivan Toney 45:57 Well, they wanted information from as far back as 2015. So it was kinda like, "Well, I haven't got no ..." For a start is I haven't got a phone that I (laughs) I had back then to give you information. But I'm willing to cooperate how I can to let you investigate what you wanna investigate. And when I was, when I ... The club actually pulled me into a room, and they spoke to me and said, "The FA have been in touch with you match-fixing this and that. They wanna speak to you." And I said, "Okay. No problem."

Steven Bartlett 46:30 This is Brentford?

Ivan Toney 46:31 This is Brentford, yeah. I said, "Okay, no problem," like ... Then he's, he was like, "Have you done any bets whilst, whilst you've been at Brentford, and have you been betting on football?" And I was like, "No, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't done no bets outta fixing, fixing foot- match-fixing football." Like, he was like, "Okay, well, the FA wanna speak to you. Don't delete nothing on your phone because there's a system. They, they said they can get back old messages," or whatever they said. So I said, "No problem. I'm not, I'm not deleting nothing if the ... They can go through what they wanna go through."

Steven Bartlett 47:09 And then they called you in for an interview in May 2022?

Ivan Toney 47:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 47:12 And they ask you all these questions again about what, what you've been involved in with betting, et cetera?

Ivan Toney 47:18 Yeah. And they asked me certain things that happened, like I said, seven, eight years ago, um, to the top of my head. S- so much information in front of you at one time, it's kinda, like, actually can't remember. I can't remember. And it's ... I think I was in there for, like, what? F- five hours.

Steven Bartlett 47:38 Five hours?

Ivan Toney 47:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 47:40 But at that time, you, you maintained to them that you're, you're not betting on football?

Ivan Toney 47:43 Yeah. And I was, I wasn't aware what, what they were, what they was trying to get at.

Steven Bartlett 47:49 You acknowledged later on that you, you, you basically lied in that meeting with the FA.

Ivan Toney 47:53 I didn't lie. I just couldn't really remember what, what they was asking for. At the time, I couldn't remember until they brought certain things in front of me, and then it was kinda like, "Okay, he's talking about my memory," and we ... Like I said, I cooperated with everything they wanted to do, and we kinda spoke on it, and then I told them the truth about everything.

Steven Bartlett 48:09 One of the things pe- people might find surprising is they, they asked for your, they asked for your mobile phones and stuff, and then they, like, image your mobile phones to check, like, all the messages you've sent to people going back a long time on the, on these phones to find out everything you've been said. And also, as you said, they, they ask you not to delete any messages, which you didn't, from, from what the commission said. Um, but how does that feel when the FA ask for your mobile phone, and they ... You know they're gonna scan it for everything?

Ivan Toney 48:37 It doesn't feel ... Yeah. It's just kinda like-... it's your privacy, and they're, they're like invading it. It's kind of like I've got something pitched on there I wouldn't want 'em to see, like, (laughs) these kind of things. So it's pretty much, like, you have to go with what they're saying. Otherwise, I feel like, I think that you, you get a longer ban for not cooperating or something like this. So it's, what, what can I do? You asked, "You wanna take my phone? Take my phone."

Steven Bartlett 49:04 And all your bank statements as well.

Ivan Toney 49:06 Everything.

Steven Bartlett 49:07 They asked for all your bank statements, which you handed over as well.

Ivan Toney 49:10 Yep.

Steven Bartlett 49:10 Um, you handed over, I believe, multiple phones.

Ivan Toney 49:14 No, just the one phone.

Steven Bartlett 49:14 Oh, just the one phone?

Ivan Toney 49:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 49:15 Okay. I thought there was a, th- there was some-

Ivan Toney 49:17 They, they said there was another phone, but there wasn't. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 49:20 The commission admit-

Ivan Toney 49:21 There was the one phone I had.

Steven Bartlett 49:21 ... that as well. And then eventually you admit to 232 breaches of their rules, um, the FA Rule E8, um, which is be- betting over five seasons from tw- t- 25th of February 2017 to betting up until January '21.

Ivan Toney 49:39 Yes, I believe so. And like I said, there was people saying I was match fixing, but none of it was match fixing. It was just, like I said before, I was betting on myself to score first from, I think this was a while back. And it's kind of like, that's not, like, I'm not trying to do, not trying, I'm still trying to do the right thing. It's not like I'm smashing someone and getting a yellow card here, there and everywhere.

Steven Bartlett 50:08 Yeah, and the report actually does say that. It says that you weren't, you weren't, it's, the commission said that you weren't match fixing-

Ivan Toney 50:14 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 50:14 ... which is a completely different, completely different thing-

Ivan Toney 50:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:16 ... than making bets on, like, games that you're, either you're playing and betting on yourself to score or betting on the team when you're not in the team.

Ivan Toney 50:22 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 50:23 Which is what, from what I read, which is what, what happened. Gambling in general, when did that start in your life? When did you start first gambling?

Ivan Toney 50:31 Um, I think it's just kind of like, as you're young, it's like f- like a, a little flutter they call it. Like, you're in, like, the fair arcade kind of thing, just trying to win a little change or something or these kind of things. So I'd say, like, uh, around 15. 15, yeah, 15 as such.

Steven Bartlett 50:52 And it, and it got progressively worse or more intense?

Ivan Toney 50:56 I'd say, yeah, I'd say the more money you get, the more, the higher the stakes go. It's kind of like, "Oh, if I lose, this is fine. This is coming next month."

Steven Bartlett 51:07 Was, did you not realize, you know, throughout those sort of five years when you were betting a lot, uh, 232 breaches, that your relationship with betting was unhealthy?

Ivan Toney 51:16 I think on the, on the 200 and, what was it, 32 breaches-

Steven Bartlett 51:19 Yeah.

Ivan Toney 51:19 ... like, there was, there was some bets in there that, that I don't recall making. But that, but I was willing to take responsibility just to get the process all over and done with, 'cause having that hovering over me and trying to concentrate on my career is not, is not the best feeling. Far from the best feeling, and I've done, I've done well to finish on 20 goals with that hanging over me. But in terms of thinking do you have a problem, it's kind of like you don't think of, "Oh, if I lose this, this is gonna happen." So it's like, "Oh, w- once I win this, this, this, this, and this can happen." Uh, you never think of the negatives. You'd always think of the positives. And being on the money I was on, which I thought was a lot at the time, and it's kind of like, "It's fine, I'll get there in the back end of the month. Oh, that's coming back this and this month. Oh, he owes me this. It's fine."

Steven Bartlett 52:16 What impact was it having on your life, betting?

Ivan Toney 52:20 Um, I feel like, uh, it was just, the impact it would have, it was just waiting for payday.

Steven Bartlett 52:31 Right.

Ivan Toney 52:32 Like, no matter what happens through the month, you're waiting for payday.

Steven Bartlett 52:35 What, you could spend your wage and then wait for payday, spend your wage, wait for payday?

Ivan Toney 52:39 Yeah. But I'd, I'd pay and sort everything I need to pay for first. And then it's like, "Right, I've got this to play with. Do that. That's fine. Payday will come soon." So it wasn't, uh, it wasn't like, "Spend this money I should be given here or paying on this."

Steven Bartlett 52:55 You took care of your bills, right?

Ivan Toney 52:56 I took care of what needed to be care of and in my head it's kind of like, "My money's my money, but I can spend it how I wanna." And yeah, pretty much, pretty much like that. I've made my own money. It's up to me how I wanna spend it.

Steven Bartlett 53:14 And one of the, one of the things that was quite surprising is bets against, bets for your team to lose when you weren't playing in the team. There, you, you, you must, you knew betting was wrong, right? Like, you knew that as a footballer you weren't a- allowed to bet?

Ivan Toney 53:27 My knowledge of not, uh, my m- my knowledge of betting on football, though I don't think I recall once somebody coming and just giving a talk on their experience of betting, not, "You can't bet on football." So it wasn't like, "I shouldn't be betting on this, shouldn't be betting on that." And I feel like, uh, I think the bets that were on my team to lose when I'm not playing, I think a few of the, a majority of those were within the bets that I know, about personally I think I didn't, didn't do, but I still took responsibility of them, for them, so the whole process could get cleared up.

Steven Bartlett 54:06 And you, um, you don't know about some of these bets you're saying because you did them through somebody else?

Ivan Toney 54:11 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 54:11 Because... And you did them through somebody else because you, you knew you weren't allowed to, right?

Ivan Toney 54:15 It wasn't through that I knew I wasn't allowed to. It was that I didn't see my, I didn't want my parents seeing what I'm doing with my money.

Steven Bartlett 54:23 This was a point of contention in the, in the documents. The, the FA said, you know, he was betting through somebody because he didn't want, he didn't want the FA to find out. You're saying you, you bet through somebody else because your parents, w- the mail was going to their house and you didn't want them opening up the post and seeing it-

Ivan Toney 54:37 Yeah, that's right.

Steven Bartlett 54:38 ... essentially. That was a point in the, I mean, the commission go-... go their own way on that. Um, and then, okay, so moving on from that, there's, there's all these aggravating factors in the, in the document. Um, was he aware of the rules? Y- I think you eventually admitted that you were aware, aware of the rules, in terms of not being able to bet on football. Um, going back to the days, I think, at North Hampton, I think. Was it North Hampton? Um, one of your previous ch- cha... I think your previous chairman at the, the football club was thrown out because of a betting scandal, and then you have a, a relative in your life that was also issued with a breach of, uh, the FA rules for betting in 2007, as well. So the con- commission concluded that you were aware of the rules and that you couldn't bet, but you sort of counter-acted that by saying you didn't have-

Ivan Toney 55:24 I think it was, it was kind of a gray area.

Steven Bartlett 55:26 Right.

Ivan Toney 55:26 But I think there was a time where, like I said, the, the, the clubs I've been at, they would at, like, beginning of every season though, that I feel like they'd sa- they'd have somebody come in but not actually tell you what you can and what you can't bet on.

Steven Bartlett 55:39 What would that person say? Just like broad-

Ivan Toney 55:40 Just his ex- experiences on betting. Like he'd come in and say, "This is me betting. This is..." And then, "I've lost this much. I've gone through this, so when, if you think about betting, don't do it." So it wasn't like, "You can't be betting on football," or, "You can't be betting on..." Yeah, "You can't be betting on football." It was just his experiences of going through a gambling stage.

Steven Bartlett 56:05 'Cause, uh... So y- so you didn't know you could, you couldn't bet as a player?

Ivan Toney 56:09 No. I thi- I think it was a gray area. Some... Like you, you'd hear you can, you hear that you can't, and then there's certain things you say you can't bet on. Like, with, with me personally, I feel like it was a gray area.

Steven Bartlett 56:22 And you admitted in the, the second aggravating factors about knowing, knowing whether you... Basically admitting to whether you were betting or not, and in the interview with the commission during the process, you said that you had lied early on by saying, "I don't bet on football," in an earlier interview. Um, but, you know, that was one of the first interviews you had, and you, you responded, "I don't bet on football." And-

Ivan Toney 56:43 Yeah, that-

Steven Bartlett 56:44 ... that, that wasn't accurate.

Ivan Toney 56:45 Yeah, that was when, obviously they threw everything at me. I thought if I was just denied then it's still fine. Uh, they wouldn't find nothing, but then-

Steven Bartlett 56:52 Obviously they take your phones and everything.

Ivan Toney 56:53 Yeah, then everything went through and then, yeah, I admitted to, um, I admitted to what I done.

Steven Bartlett 57:01 In the FA, the fourth af- aggravating fact was whether the player sought to conceal his identity when he set up his own betting account in 2017. The commission, um, didn't accept the FA's submission there. They didn't, they didn't believe that you'd concealed it in that regard. Um, whether the player deleted messages, issue number five. Commission concluded that there wasn't evidence that you deleted any messages.

Ivan Toney 57:21 They, they... I, I was accused of deleting messages. Yeah, that's right.

Steven Bartlett 57:24 Yeah, by the FA.

Ivan Toney 57:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:24 But the commission said that there, they didn't have substantial evidence for that.

Ivan Toney 57:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:30 Um, kind of the same-

Ivan Toney 57:31 And so I was told not to-

Steven Bartlett 57:32 And you didn't.

Ivan Toney 57:33 ... de- delete nothing from the club.

Steven Bartlett 57:35 The commission couldn't find any evidence that you had deleted anything, so.

Ivan Toney 57:37 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 57:38 Um, and then the, the phone issue we've talked about already. The last issue was around whether you had a gambling addiction, and they brought out a psychologist called Dr. Philip Hopley who looked at you, did interviews with you. Um, he's a highly qualified and experienced psy- psychiatric expert, according to the commission, and he interviewed you on two occ- occasions, and he formed a clear opinion that you had a gambling addiction. Um, and accordingly the commission accepted the findings of the doctor on this issue. And that's part of the reason that you were given a more lenient sentence, um, because Dr. Hopley said that you had an impulsive, uh, compulsive disorder.

Ivan Toney 58:18 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:19 Was that the first time you'd heard of gambling addiction?

Ivan Toney 58:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:23 W- through this process, this tribunal?

Ivan Toney 58:25 Yeah, 'cause, uh, I feel like it wouldn't be in me to bring myself forward to speak to one of these people to see if I did have one. So it was kind of like, like I said (laughs) my, my stubbornness come- comes into play on this one. It's just kinda like, "No, I'm fine. I can stop when I wanna stop."

Steven Bartlett 58:47 Wh- what... D- did he expl- did s- uh, someone explain to you what a gambling addiction is since then?

Ivan Toney 58:52 Pru- a little bit, yeah. We did speak with Dr. Hopley on, on, on the r- around what addiction is but, it's kinda like, you don't allow yourself to believe it. Like, I feel like if you wanna stop doing something, I feel like people think in their head, "I can stop if I want to," but not, not knowing deep down you probably can't.

Steven Bartlett 59:18 Could you have stopped it?

Ivan Toney 59:20 Probably. I've... Yeah, it's, it's... I feel like it's 50/50. You could, you could've stopped but I feel like the thrill on it is kinda like what keeps you going.

Steven Bartlett 59:36 'Cause the FA, their sort of counterpoint to that was that there was periods where you, you didn't, you didn't gamble. So they were, they were saying that, to the commission that, you know, it's not a gambling addiction because there's p- parts of his journey where he's not gambling or he's betting on other things, for example. Um, do you still gamble now?

Ivan Toney 59:53 No.

Steven Bartlett 59:54 Anything?

Ivan Toney 59:55 No.

Steven Bartlett 59:55 Any betting at all across any-

Ivan Toney 59:57 No.

Steven Bartlett 59:59 Has that required therapy or any sort of professional support?

Ivan Toney 1:00:02 I think it's kind of been in the public eye. If I was to be like going into these places and these kind of things, I think it's more the embarrassment that is like still continuing, li- this kind of thing. So I, I don't... I wouldn't allow myself and the, the... Like, you look back you... I feel like you just hi- you sit, take a back seat and look at all the money you've lost and what you could've went on and what... And especially now having people to provide for, it's kinda like you can't be spending that m- money on this. It can go to, to here or like, just manage your money better. How I look at things and how I look at me, I foresee that as-... be naive.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:53 We don't really get much information, do we, uh, growing up, about, uh, gambling? Or really how to, like, how to spend our money or tax? Especially, I think about you guys as, like, young, you know, 20-year-olds that are just, you know, playing football, and then you become millionaires-

Ivan Toney 1:01:07 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:08 ... because you're good at it. It's kind of different for, like, my pursuit because I'm building a business. You have CFOs. You have finance people around you. You have controls, budgets, forecasts, P&Ls, all this stuff. So, you know, you're surrounded by, like, money minds and brains around you when you're building a business. But being a young 20-year-old millionaire who I'm presuming nobody gave you financial education?

Ivan Toney 1:01:32 No, it's kinda like, like you said, yeah, being... Having that much money at a tender age is kinda like, "Pfft, what do I do with it?" And I'm not a family that comes from money, so it's not like my parents could help me a lot with that.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:47 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 1:01:47 But they, they, they would have their say on certain things. But it's like you kinda have to try and just manage it yourself.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:54 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 1:01:55 And just assume doing this is the right thing.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:00 You don't know what you don't know.

Ivan Toney 1:02:01 Pretty much.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:03 The bit of this case that I, that I was, th- the bit I was... I found difficult is the using someone else to do the bets. 'Cause for me, that's a... That points to, like, in that he did know... I think that's what people would think. They'd look at that and go, "No."

Ivan Toney 1:02:15 Of course, 100%.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:16 "Try and conceal it." 'Cause I'm thinking your mum, your mum and dad ain't opening your post at 27 years old. Like, my mum ain't gonna open my post.

Ivan Toney 1:02:22 No, this was a, this was when I was away-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:23 Oh, you were younger.

Ivan Toney 1:02:24 ... away from home.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:24 You were, like, 20... You were, you were younger, in your 20s, yeah.

Ivan Toney 1:02:26 Yeah, so I know my post did go to my parents. And I feel like, of course, your parents wanna be knowing what's going on. If you're getting this letter through, that's, "You're not paying this," or, like I, like I said, seeing what you're spending your money on. And I feel like 'cause we're a tight family, my mum would w- worry about that. And there was actually times where she's opened it, and th- she's kinda said certain things about it.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:51 And the FA had highlighted the text message you'd sent where you'd, you'd said to your mate, "I can't have that one in my name. What was the app I gambled on, on your phone this time?" from text messages that they'd found. That's the bit that I struggled with was I was like... I wasn't sure there, but this chapter of your life has clearly been a big learning moment.

Ivan Toney 1:03:10 100%. I feel like looking back on what I've done, would I change some bits? Probably. But it is what it is, and the man I am now continuing forward is kinda... Well, he's different to what I was before.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:25 Do you take r- like, when, when we th- think about responsibility for our actions-

Ivan Toney 1:03:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:30 ... what's, what kind... what responsibility do you take for all of this where you say, "Listen, this is, this is what I take responsibility for here"? Um, and this is also, like, going back to a question I asked earlier about, like, what do you wish someone had, had said to you when you first did that, I don't know, those, those bets five, five, six, seven years ago, um, what's the responsibility you take? And what's the, what's the lesson you've taken from this process?

Ivan Toney 1:03:55 I think the responsibility I take was, yeah, I was betting on myself to, uh, score first, which now, you... I know you shou- you shouldn't be doing, which I take responsibility. And I take full responsibility for the punishment I'm getting now.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:08 Mm-hmm.

Ivan Toney 1:04:09 So, uh, it was... It would be kind of a, like... And, and, and what I tell my s- younger self at, around them kinda times is, like, "Manage your money better. Don't get mixed in the wrong crowd," I say. And just, "Just don't follow fashion. Have your own, have your own mindset, uh, mind frame on what you should and shouldn't be doing. Or if you don't know, look more into it, and if that's what you really wanna do, look more into it and what you can and, and can and can't do."

Steven Bartlett 1:04:38 It's interesting 'cause when they were de- deliberating your, your punishment, one of the things that came to mind is perception.

Ivan Toney 1:04:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:45 And what it would m- what it... The perception it would send to the rest of the, the game. Um, do you think they, they made an example of you?

Ivan Toney 1:04:55 I feel so, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:57 Do you think that's right?

Ivan Toney 1:05:00 I can't even tell... I don't think it's right, no, but-

Steven Bartlett 1:05:02 'Cause you're a high-profile Premier League player. Obviously, if, if you get away with doing something like this, this could... Other players at low, lower levels could also emulate it, so they've got an opportunity here to send a message.

Ivan Toney 1:05:12 100%, 100%. And I feel like a lot of people think that in terms of if I... No disrespect to the lower leagues, but if I was... We actually, we actually did look at some cases that was somewhat similar, some were worse. And their punishment wasn't like how mine is. I think the fact they see opportunity, the fact that I'm playing in the Premier League, doing well, sniff around England, it's kinda like, "Right, this is our chance to punish him. Then people know this is kinda the punishment you're looking at if you wanna do what I done."

Steven Bartlett 1:05:49 It's funny 'cause I, I was actually surprised to read that in the, the r- the, um, the analysis section of this document where it says, "The perception of the impact of football betting on the integrity of the game is key, a key consideration when deciding on your sanction."

Ivan Toney 1:06:02 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:03 Which does kind of suggest that they're quite intentional in making sure that they make an example of you, um, there or thereabouts in their words. Um, and obviously, you have, you have a huge position of influence, so that's, that's key. Um, and then they submit their... Th- the FA suggested that, that you get 12 months ban as a suspension, I believe, and that was their final sanction. The commission didn't accept that. Um, ordinarily, the, the commission would've i- imposed 50... 15 months suspension had you not plead guilty to the charges, which lowered your sanction. And, and then also you got another, um, reduction in the sanction because of the findings from the doctor who found that you had a gambling addiction, which brought your sentence down to eight months, um, and you were fined £50,000. It's interesting because, you know, I, I'm a foot- huge football fan, so I wanna see you play.

Ivan Toney 1:06:54 Mmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:55 And I... You're, you're on such a roll.... Brentford are on such a role. So, like, as a football fan, although you smashed United last year-

Ivan Toney 1:07:02 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:02 ... like, it was so, it's so good to see, like, a young Black English striker tearing up the game at his peak. It's gutting to see you out of the game. It is.

Ivan Toney 1:07:13 And I feel like, like how I am and how, people know how I stay, this is, this is nothing. I, I know for a fact I'll come back stronger than this and better than I was before. Like, this is gi- gives me the hunger again to recharge and come back on, on another, another level. Like, like I said bif- before, earlier, no time to dwell on things. No time to dwell on things. And it's, like, just when that first game comes and I can play, then it's no ballgame. It's, it's on. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:47 (laughs) When you found out you, you, you were suspended for eight, eight months ... how did that feel? (sighs) What's that like?

Ivan Toney 1:07:55 Um-

Steven Bartlett 1:07:56 'Cause you know you're in the peak of your powers right now, right?

Ivan Toney 1:07:58 Yeah. I know it's, it's painful, but I feel like the hard part is kind of now, because right now I'll be playing football matches, and that kind of be around the players and at the football ground and things like this. And it's kind of like, okay, that's what you want to do, punish me from there, but I feel like keeping me away from the ground, if I wasn't as strong as I was in my head, that would break some people. And like we talk about mental health and all these kind of things, and what's that kind of doing to a player that's not allowed in the environment even though you can't play games? But keeping them away from the training ground, knowing football's their life and that's all they've done from such a young age, how is that going to help them at all?

Steven Bartlett 1:08:48 Yeah. This, this is ... I completely agree with you. I think, I think the sanction itself is important because it does send a message, and I agree with that. But, uh, the bit that I just struggle with is the can't train at the club. And we know, as you, you, uh, point out there, like, mental health, keeping active is such an important thing, especially if you've been playing football since you're a kid-

Ivan Toney 1:09:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:09 ... and it's your purpose, it's what you know. Um, so psychologically and physically, there's a, a real strong case to keep you, keep you active. And I've seen a lot of people have their say on this. A lot of people think, you know, you could have trained at the ground and then used that time to educate young players on, on gambling. That would have been useful. But to keep you out of the club, not allow you to train, and to kind of push you out on your own, it seems-

Ivan Toney 1:09:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:32 ... doesn't feel like it's smart.

Ivan Toney 1:09:34 It doesn't, it doesn't add up with what ... like the things they push forward. Like, like we say the whole football community's on, big on mental health. Then the FA go and do this and, like, push me away from the (laughs) like my, the, the whole football environment. Like, by all means, it's not a, a place where I want people to feel sorry for me. Like, that's the last thing, that's the last thing I want. And me as a person and people that know me would know that's not what, one thing I'm trying to achieve. But it's the fact that what if somebody that's not as strong as me in the head happens to be going through this kind of situation, and their punishment is they're not allowed at the training ground? Like, that would break them. Like, right now, being, not being around a train- uh, a training ground, it does hurt me, but I just know when I'm at a training ground, train harder, be ready for the, the game when I can play. But it's ... Yeah, this is, like I said, it's not a nice feeling. And the whole purpose of not being allowed at the training ground is, it's baffling to me, but-

Steven Bartlett 1:10:39 Do you have hard days still?

Ivan Toney 1:10:42 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I feel like everybody has hard days.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:46 I mean, like with th- through this process, has there been days where y- uh, like, your ups and your downs and difficult days where you start, you have low moments because you are away from football, the press is on top of you?

Ivan Toney 1:10:56 Yeah. I feel like I've ha- had hours, hard two hours kind of things. Like, in the mornings, I'd wake up, be like, "Oh, can't be arsed today." But get in the shower, get active. When you're there working, it's kind of like out your head. As much as you don't want to do it, you'll see in the long run that that time I didn't want to get up (laughs) , didn't wanna, didn't wanna put the work in, it's paying off now. Whereas, if I'm saying, "Oh, tomorrow," and then tomorrow comes, "I'll do it next day."

Steven Bartlett 1:11:30 So you're still training?

Ivan Toney 1:11:31 Yeah, 100. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:32 To-

Ivan Toney 1:11:32 Still keeping fit, still, still doing my own thing.

Steven Bartlett 1:11:34 Working with a personal trainer?

Ivan Toney 1:11:36 Yeah, personal trainer, which is, which is good. And it's not, like, a lenient one. It's one, one that pushes me. So I feel like I, I've not got it good, but I've got the best people around me to keep me fit and keep me going. And like I said, my family is key. My family is the one that's ... well, they're, they're the people that's helping me going as well, and especially my children.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:01 You're, you're a mummy's boy.

Ivan Toney 1:12:03 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:04 Sometimes in these moments, it's, it's difficult for us, but it's harder to watch the impact it has on our family, right?

Ivan Toney 1:12:10 Yeah, 100%. I feel like, like even when the whole thing was, it was like those allegations and the people, like, going into my mom's work and just saying certain things. And I'd be at a petrol station, they scream certain things, and I'll be with my family and my children, and people would just be like s- shouting dumb things out. Uh-

Steven Bartlett 1:12:35 Like what?

Ivan Toney 1:12:36 Just like, "Oh, you're pointing ..." Like, just shouting things like, "Oh, you're pointing a 10 at home to today's game." Or these kind of things, or just silly, immature things. And how I am, I'm kind of hot-headed, but especially when family are involved and my children are around, it's kind of like ... (laughs) It's, it's hard for me not to want to say something or do something or these kind of things. And it's like going through that period-... like, it, it's hard. And people that you wouldn't normally speak to, or my parents, or family wouldn't normally speak to, they'll pop up and just be like, "Ah, what's happening with Ivan?" So it's when the bad things come along, now you wanna talk and, and find out what's going on. Whereas, when I'm scoring goals or getting picked for England, they don't really wanna say too much. But that's life, and that's how people are, and we don't, we don't miss them. We see them. We see the evil eyes, so it's-

Steven Bartlett 1:13:38 Has this process been, um... Has it illuminated, um, things for you in certain areas of your life? Certain people, and some people that-

Ivan Toney 1:13:45 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:45 ... are there for you and stand... You know. 'Cause I think, even thinking about the gaffer, Thomas Frank, he's come to your defense multiple times, talking about how he disagrees with the way that it's been handled, the, the sanctions. And he thinks that you should be able to train with the team, and, um, be out there educating young kids, et cetera, et cetera. He disagrees with the, the decision that, that the commission made.

Ivan Toney 1:14:06 Not just him. South, uh, Gareth Southgate as well.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:08 Gareth Southgate, yeah.

Ivan Toney 1:14:09 He, he did-

Steven Bartlett 1:14:10 He talked sport with you.

Ivan Toney 1:14:10 Yeah, yeah. I know. I spoke to him as well. But...

Steven Bartlett 1:14:14 How does that feel then? What does that mean to you?

Ivan Toney 1:14:15 It feels good knowing I've got, um, them behind me. Obviously, the England manager and my club manager backing me 100%. It feels good and it gives me a bit of extra strength to make sure when I'm back, I'm firing. And it gives me that bit of hunger. Not that I'm lacking it, but I feel like the extra boost to feel like, okay, it's on when I'm back kind of thing.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:45 And the club standing by you in such a way, has that kind of cemented your loyalty a little bit to Brentford?

Ivan Toney 1:14:52 Yeah. I feel like, like I said earlier, I, I want a manager and a club to, like, really want me and put their arm around me. And I feel like, throughout the whole situation, Brent- Brentford have done that. Like even, even the players as well. Like I spoke to loads of them. They don't agree with it, but it is what it is. And...

Steven Bartlett 1:15:12 And your mum?

Ivan Toney 1:15:13 Uh, yeah. She's... Like when I was... Like, we're going back to the tweet, when I s- when I put that tweet out, she was the first person that rang me and messaged me and said, "Listen, you don't need to do nothing. Just don't do it no more, please." I've been... Saying now she's been sick for... She feels sick in her stomach for however long, throughout the whole situation. And putting it out there, she's just thinking it's gonna damage me, damage her, and damage the family, and things like this. So I just thought, "Okay, let me just do the talk on my feet, and when I'm back, and get, get the family, not only smiling, but happy, happy again." And I'm sure they can't wait, well, they, they can't wait till they see their son back on the pitch scoring goals.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:00 Does she... Does it mean the most to you to make her happy and to make her feel good?

Ivan Toney 1:16:04 All my family, yeah. I feel like, like she always just texts me randomly, and she's like, uh, she always, "Uh, I don't wanna bother you." Sometimes I just check on Whats- I'm sitting on WhatsApp to wait for you to come online to know you're okay, and alive, and well. And, but that's just, that's how my mom is. Like there'll be sometimes she... Like my mom, she knows (laughs) and she does, she calls me random times. It'll be 12:00 at night, or it would be early doors. "Just checking in." I was, "Fine. Love you so much," this and that. But yeah, that's her favorite one. Checking to see if I'm online on WhatsApp, rather than pestering me in her eyes. But, so I think making them happy and making them smile is what, is what gives me the thrill to do well.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:54 The Brentford fan base?

Ivan Toney 1:16:56 Yeah. Strong. Massive, and-

Steven Bartlett 1:16:57 Sh- showing you a lot of love as well, support?

Ivan Toney 1:16:59 Yeah. Yeah. Everywhere I go, I get, I get love from the Brentford fans though. That's good, and that's key.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:06 What's your, uh... You're gonna get back, back to football.

Ivan Toney 1:17:09 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:09 I know you've, you... I can feel you've got a certain fire inside you.

Ivan Toney 1:17:13 Yep. I think. I just... Not that I need to prove anybody wrong, but there's, there's a lot of haters and doubters out there thinking, "He ain't gonna be the same man when he comes back." Actually, they're, they're right. I'm gonna be a different man and even better than that, that guy that scored them goals before, so.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:35 How do you know?

Ivan Toney 1:17:36 'Cause mom- I'm built different. My mentality is different. I'm not one of these, "Oh, he could have been a great player, hadn't he done this." I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go beyond that. Uh, it's, like I said, not a point to prove, but a point to prove to myself.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:57 How do you ensure that happens? Like, what is it that y- 'Cause I think about controllables. What is it that you can control to make sure that you come back ev- an even better player? Is it just training harder? Is it... What is it that you're-

Ivan Toney 1:18:06 Yeah. It's training harder. But in my head, uh, every time I step on a pitch, I'm, I'm thinking in my head, "I'm gonna score today. I'm gonna score. I know I'm gonna score. When the chance comes, I'm gonna score." 'Cause in a game, you, your bouns get a chance that you should be scoring. So in my head now I'm thinking, "Right. When I do play, and I do get that chance that I should be scoring, it has to be a goal." So it's gonna be a goal.

Steven Bartlett 1:18:29 What if it's not?

Ivan Toney 1:18:31 Next one will be a goal.

Steven Bartlett 1:18:33 What if it's not?

Ivan Toney 1:18:33 It will be. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:18:36 (laughs)

Ivan Toney 1:18:36 That'll be two goals.

Steven Bartlett 1:18:38 You know, I think Brentford is a fantastic team. I think of all the teams in the Premier League, if we talk about admiration, I'm, uh, really admire Bre-Brighton at the moment. But Brentford, I absolutely think are a brilliant, brilliant team. Really ton of admiration for them.

Ivan Toney 1:18:51 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:18:51 Um, there's a lot of people that are obviously linking you to other clubs and saying, "Oh, is he gonna join this, Manchester United."

Ivan Toney 1:18:57 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:18:58 And all of that. How do you receive all of that? You know, all these links to... 'Cause everyone's looking for a striker. Strikers are like the hardest to find.

Ivan Toney 1:19:04 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:19:04 Goal scorers in the Premier League. You got Haaland. You got Kane. He's gone. Now, now you're technically the second-best striker that's currently in the league.... on paper. So, you know, these big clubs are gonna come knocking. They're gonna say, you know, "Chelsea's got fucking unlimited money over here. United-

Ivan Toney 1:19:19 That's-

Steven Bartlett 1:19:19 ... we need a striker."

Ivan Toney 1:19:20 (laughs) No.

Steven Bartlett 1:19:20 How do you receive all of that?

Ivan Toney 1:19:22 I mean, like, from a young age, like I said, I don't