The Diary of a CEOI've PROVEN This Food Keeps You Young & This Oil Reduces Inflammation by 85%! Bryan Johnson
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,324 words- 0:00 – 2:17
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
What on Earth have you given me?
- BJBryan Johnson
That is how you can measure your nighttime erections. It's unbelievable in ways it improves health and wellness.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Bryan Johnson is back.
- BJBryan Johnson
The billionaire who's spending $2 million a year to-
- SBSteven Bartlett
To stay young forever.
- BJBryan Johnson
Through algorithmic precision. This is the most impactful humanitarian project ever. I'm trying to find the very best science in the world for how you can extend your life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So how has it been going?
- BJBryan Johnson
Honestly, I'm in the absolute peak performance of my entire life. I've extended my lifespan over 30%, reduced my age by 12 years, increased muscle and strength, and now six months of perfect sleep. I've accomplished the best sleep score in history. A demonstration of human ability 'cause if I can do it, everyone else can do it too. Every second of every day, we're all trying not to die. That's what we're doing as a society right now. It's not working very well, but if an algorithm could manage your health and wellness for you and achieve near perfect health, would you opt into that? Because we found it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But what can the average person do?
- BJBryan Johnson
One thing that works is (censored) .
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. I- it's like the super of super foods. There you go.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That is not how you're meant to have that. And what comes next?
- BJBryan Johnson
The best is yet to come. Kate Dollo.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Kate, will you come on out?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you're the first woman on Earth to follow Bryan's lifestyle? That's right. What's been the biggest sacrifice? (laughs) Quick one. This is really, really fascinating to me. On the back end of our YouTube channel, it says that 69.9% of you that watch this channel frequently over the lifetime of this channel haven't yet hit the subscribe button. I just wanted to ask you a favor. It helps this channel so much if you choose to su- subscribe. Helps us scale the guests, helps us scale the production, and it makes the show bigger. So if I could ask you for one favor, if you've watched the show before and you've enjoyed it and you like this episode that you're currently watching, could you please hit the subscribe button? Thank you so much, and I will repay that gesture by making sure that everything we do here gets better and better and better and better. That is a promise I'm willing to make you. Do we have a deal? Bryan, you're now coming up on
- 2:17 – 5:24
Blueprint: The Study to Reverse Your Age
- SBSteven Bartlett
th- almost three years since you started Blueprint, which is your sort of anti-aging, life extending, longevity protocol. Is that accurate?
- BJBryan Johnson
That's accurate.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Give me a overview of the benefits you've been able to achieve in those three years.
- BJBryan Johnson
Hmm. I legitimately have never been happier in my entire life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- BJBryan Johnson
It, it's like when you have a, a series of bad nights of sleep and you, like, you're eating poorly and you sleep poorly, in a week or two, you just normalize to that new norm. You don't realize what you've lost, it just becomes invisible to you. And then when you bounce back after a really great night's sleep and you take care of yourself, you make the observation, "This is the most remarkable thing ever. I wish I could exist like this all the time." And I've hit that state where I'm in the absolute peak performance of my entire life. I've never been as well rested, I've never been as clear, with, uh, greater clarity of mind. I've never, uh, been more calm emotionally. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm not provoked. I'm not irritable. Things are that I struggled with before.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's true that you don't know how bad you felt until you feel good.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I can relate.
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) It's... Dealing with oneself is, uh, the most challenging thing. This is from my experience, the most challenging thing in my existence is understanding my own self. Like, uh, trying to map out where I'm self-aware and where I'm unaware, where my self-awareness ends, and what I've normalized to and can no longer see, what status quo hides from me, what biases I have in my brain, what blind spots I have. I'm blind to so much of reality, and I just have no idea. And the brain plays these tricks on us where we believe with confidence that we ha- we're the master of our reality, that we see all things, we feel all things, that if something's missing, we're going to note it. But really, my life has become trying to find out what's invisible to me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What are some of those psychological biases that you think most people still don't realize are, are illusions?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) Oh, man. It's, like, my f- most favorite topic, because we are fooled into thinking that we truly understand our situation, our reality. And there's so many easy tricks one can play. Like even something simple, like if you prime somebody with words like, uh, grandma, grandmother or grandfather or, like, you know, like things that trigger thoughts of old age or being slow, and then you ask the person to walk down the hallway to do a task, those who have been primed with old sounding word, old relate, uh, associated words and young, the old associated walk more slowly, and the young walked qua- quicker. We incorporate all these things into the way we act and the way we think and what we internally, uh, generate. And we just... It's beyond our awareness.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So for people that don't know what the word priming means, essentially, if you just say those words to somebody, if you say grandmother or grandfather or old associated, elderly associated words to somebody, in studies, they then walk slower. I'm really interested in the behavioral stuff because I think most of us are governed by
- 5:24 – 7:39
A Scientific & Measurable Perspective on My Health & the World
- SBSteven Bartlett
a set of stories that we've-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... come to learn... believe about ourselves, that we probably learnt from false evidence along the way. And we're now living our lives in accordance with that false instr- instruction manual. Like, there's a puppet master pulling the strings telling me-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... that I am a entrepreneur that does a podcast and that I am a-
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I'm unorganized and I'm, you know, whatever it might be, you know?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) I love that. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How does one go about understanding that those words are governing our lives, but then also more importantly, getting rid of the, the, the power that they're exerting over us?
- BJBryan Johnson
There's a few things I do on a daily basis to help me. One, I read a book by Gary Becker, The Economics of Life, uh, when I was, uh, 24 years old. And he would take any given topic like poverty, something that would be non...... you wouldn't think that this thing relates to math and economics. It's just, like, this so- social phenomena that I would have previously heard someone tell me a story about, and he would break them down, uh, using economics. And I thought, "That's unreal." A world understood through numbers and graphs and models, not through stories. No one's going to tell me any story, they're just going to lay this out. And I realize that there are limitations, of course, to those things. Like, stories are embedded in those to some extent. However, from the world I came from where it was dominant on, on story, to see that the world could be objectively measured, understood, and quantified changed my reality. And so now when I look at a given situation, I try to identify what is the numerical representation of this thing? What is the mathematical formula? What is the graph that explains this phenomena? Not through a story lens, but, like, what actually are... what systems are at play? So you try to parse through all the, all the decoys that would otherwise take me down a dif- different path and then secondarily is I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Give me an example of that. What's an example?
- BJBryan Johnson
I mean, so like, uh, what determines whether I have high quality sleep? (laughs) And most the time in... Pr- previously in my life, my sleep quality was something like a random. I would go to sleep, and I would have no idea what was impacting why I would get high quality sleep or not.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
And that I could numerically back out, that's what I've done over the past few years is what elements contribute to and how those biological processes function and then what happens when, and you can map out the entirety of that process.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Last time we s- we had spoken, I think you were on four months
- 7:39 – 13:48
First Person To Achieve Perfect Sleep for 6 Months
- SBSteven Bartlett
of perfect sleep.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Where are you at now?
- BJBryan Johnson
I completed six months of perfect sleep.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And what does perfect sleep mean for you?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, 100% sleep score.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that's judged by?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, my wearable. By, by Whoop.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- BJBryan Johnson
And so before I did this, nobody had achieved that series of, of 100% scores, and many people who, who have had a device like that for over a year have never once achieved a 100% sleep score. And what I was trying to do was something akin to, like, a four-minute mile or Amelia Earhart flying the plane across the Atlantic or, you know, someone climbing Everest. It was basically a demonstration of human ability that people didn't think was possible, and then once one person demonstrates it, it opens it up for everyone else. Because if I can do it, everyone else knows they can do it too. And so I wanted to show that reliable, high quality sleep is achievable, and that if you do that, it could potentially give you the best cognitive and emotional performance of your life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you think there's a human being, an adult human being on planet Earth that's slept better than you for the last six months?
- BJBryan Johnson
There's currently no one that has shared data that has achieved that. So i- if we're just looking at the data alone, which is not an entire representation, then yeah, I- I've accomplished the best sleep score in history.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Pretty impressive. And, uh, for the, for... Just to r- recap so I'm, I'm clear, because I know we discussed this last time, you go to bed at, like, 8:00 PM, right?
- BJBryan Johnson
8:30.
- SBSteven Bartlett
8:30. And your last meal of the day is before midday.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, that's right. 11:00 AM.
- SBSteven Bartlett
8:30. And you're still doing that, you're still going to bed at 8:30 every day?
- BJBryan Johnson
That's right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People are... I feel like their s- their sleep is getting worse and worse in society-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... with, uh, stimulants that we consume, the way we live our lives, devices destroy sleep. Do you think sleep is th- really the foundation of daily performance? Would you, would you aim at that first if you were someone that was trying to start your journey to live a, a life more in line with your long-term goals?
- BJBryan Johnson
Sleep is the single most important thing any human does on any given day. And if you look at it from a cultural identity standpoint of people like you and me who work hard at an entrepreneurial endeavor, there's this mythology that if you sleep under your desk or you go days without sleep, you're a hero, that people will tell stories about you. It's like the old, like, I guess, Viking mythology where you, you have these stories told about your great deeds.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
And so it's almost like if you're a great entrepreneur and if you want to be respected by your peers and if you want to achieve mythology-like status, you do that sleep deprivation thing.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
And so it's built so far into our cultural identity so when people... I know when my friends who... I act as a therapist for many people who go through this thing where they're... they don't realize why they actually can't prioritize sleep, and then when we dig deep, it's that they have these imaginations of the kind of person they want to become and how they want others to view them, and they feel trapped that if they don't complete the mythology lore that they'll somehow be less than and they won't achieve the ranking among the social group. And it's all backwards. The, the, the, the shift that's appropriate is... And it's happening actually right now is that the person who prioritizes sleep is going to be higher performing. They'll be more lucid. They'll be... They'll have better ideas. The people who don't sleep are literally half dead. They're actually intoxicated. They're impaired.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Physiologically?
- BJBryan Johnson
Physiologically they're impaired.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Explain that.
- BJBryan Johnson
When you are sleep-deprived, uh, to a certain degree, it is equal to being intoxicated by alcohol. You're inebriated. And so these are the people who are leading organizations, there are groups of, uh, large number of individuals that are expecting them to make high quality decisions on behalf of the entire group, and it's those very people who are not sleeping well and who are impaired in their judgment. It's backwards. And so, uh, this is... it's a, it's a good note to make, and this goes back to the first conversation of what am I not aware of?If you're playing the script of social norms, of doing what people say and you're not questioning them, then you're, you're living a, you're living in a pa- in the past of antiquated ideas that are hurtful to you. So here's one more example. I was at a conference the other day and the gentleman who was interviewing me said, "Hey, who here thinks that you can live forever?" And there were, like, two people were like... (laughs) "Who, who here thinks you're going to die?" And like everyone's hand shot up. And I was commenting to them that when, when you read history, who in a historical moment actually understood what was happening in that time and place? You know, 99% of people are living in the past. They repeat the things that people in the past had said. The future had already arrived. So if it's at the year 1634, the future already arrived in 1634. It's just the people there living during that timeframe don't know it. They hadn't seen it yet. They hadn't been exposed to it, or maybe they exposed to it, but they thought it was crazy or the person was a quack. And so you're always, people are always living in the past. And so the same is true right now. We are living in the past. The future is already here. The ideas and technologies are out there. Maybe you and I've seen them, maybe we can't. Maybe we encounter it, maybe we believe it, maybe we don't. But it's definitely here right now. And sleep is one of those things where the future is already here and people who are playing the mythology of no sleep, under the desk, and everything else, they're living in the past.
- 13:48 – 16:49
How To Achieve Perfect Sleep
- SBSteven Bartlett
with sleep do believe in the importance of sleep. At least if you asked them, they'd say they did. But for whatever reason, you know, they might have sleep-related difficulties. They might have insomnia, they might just lay in bed all night and just feel anxious, whatever else. And it's those people that I, I want to offer some advice to.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The people that, um, yeah, they, they work hard and stuff but they just struggle with sleep.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. There's a difference between the acknowledgement that sleep may be good for you and that you say like, "Yeah, I'm on board with good sleep." It's an entirely different situation when you prioritize your life around that, which means if somebody's like, "Hey, let's grab a drink." "Sorry, can't. My bedtime's at blank." Or if you're, uh, if you find that you sleep better by having earlier meals and then you're at a social event, you're like, "Well, I'm gonna eat anyways." So it forces you to make really hard decisions on your actual lifestyle, which it does, it pits you against social norms which are uncomfortable. We want to fit in, we want to have friends, we want to be part of the tribe. So it, it does really invite... But the... Every person who makes the gesture, who does it, makes the tribe stronger. So when one person's brave enough to say, "Actually, I'm gonna hit the sack, guys." And like, "Oh man, you're s- you're such a wuss. Why are you doing that? Hang out, man. Like, what's wrong with you? What do you..." You know, like they, they jokingly try to belittle and pick. It's kind of serious and kind of not. But every time somebody does that and has the courage, there's several others in that group who are like, "Damn, now I feel empowered that I can say something." And that's the norm that's shifting. But this, it's the same social dynamics in whatever time you're in. It's just understanding that and not being owned by it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then I guess the other, the other exception potentially is parents that don't have-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, childcare.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause, I mean, I've... Uh, when I speak to parents they always tell me, they're like, "Steve, listen, when you have a kid you can forget your no meetings before 11:00 AM-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... rule and your Whoop! HRV competition.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because when that baby cries at 3:00 AM, you know, and then at 4:00 AM and at 5:00 AM you're just gonna be dragged through the mud with them, so.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. That's true. And having raised three kids, I can attest that that's true also. You can definitely establish a sleep culture in your family where you can make it understandable that once the child goes to sleep, at whatever age, the expectation is they're in their bedroom for that entire duration of time. Absent something, a fire or them feeling threatened for their life, if it's because they lost their play- their toy car under their bed or it's because they can't find their blankie, none of that justifies leaving the room and entering, you know, the parents' bedroom. So I... There's definitely things that can be done. You're not entirely powerless. And you can make meaningful improvements by setting the standard for the entire family. That starts with the parents, like what, what hygiene did they maintain and what did they pass on to children? But it's not entirely hopeless.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Based on the way you live your life now, you must look at people and see a whole lot of excuses
- 16:49 – 23:56
The Ultimate Effort to Not Die
- SBSteven Bartlett
and a whole lack of responsibility everywhere you go. Every tweet you get, every comment you see. It must just, to you, reek of low responsibility 'cause you're someone that, as you said last time, has kind of given up control of yourself to this blueprint which really is the, uh, the essence of, um, discipline is completely surrendering to that.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you think people are lacking in responsibility and full of excuses about their lives?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) I mean, who of us are not that?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
Or... And, like, any of us who would dare say otherwise are deceiving ourselves. And this is, again, self-awareness, is we all are self-deception machines. And anyone who doesn't believe that is self-deceiving.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you still self-deceive?
- BJBryan Johnson
Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What are you still self-deceiving yourself on, do you suspect?
- BJBryan Johnson
I (laughs) ... I wouldn't trust myself in my own pantry with a bunch of junk food. That's why in my house I can ha- I... I've eliminated all self-harm. There's just nothing I can do 'cause I don't trust myself. So it's not like I, you know, I feel like I've created so much discipline and confidence that, like, put it in front of me and I won't do it. Even though I do on a daily basis when I'm in social situations, I don't put myself in that environment. But yeah, I mean, I... My goal is to find where I'm in error in thought and action constantly.That's the, that's the gem. That's the treasure chest, is finding out where you've missed.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you can know you've messed up somewhere. I think about areas of my life where I go, where I know what the right thing to do is, but for whatever reason, I keep not doing the right thing.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I keep getting the feedback.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"Okay, you, you messed that up, Steve." And then, you know, a week passes and I might do the same thing again.
- BJBryan Johnson
The one game we all humans play, every human on the planet is playing, is don't die. Every second of every day, we're all trying not die, not to die, so we look both ways before we cross the street. We have carbon monoxide detectors. We don't seek out, we don't drink poison, you know, on purpose. Like, we, we d- do all these things to not die. Now, the weird thing though is I can look both ways before I cross the street and also be smoking a cigarette.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
And that's just the nuances of the human mind. But what I wanted to do with Blueprint is I wanted to say, okay, if you really take do, uh, don't die to the absolute extreme, I'm going to measure every biological process in my body and find out where every cell is aging, like, where, basically where dying is happening. And then I'm going to identify all those behaviors, and I'm going to, going to try to eliminate every behavior that contributes to don't dying. So, what is possible in 2023 for the ultimate, uh, effort of don't die on every front? And that means no excuses ever for anything. So, a six-month sleep score, like, you basically have to say, "This is in stone. It's not gonna be changed under any circumstance, because I'm trying to prove a point of what could be done with the science in this moment."
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, when you said about the cigarette example, you'll cross the road, you'll look both ways to make sure you don't get hit by a truck, but you'll be smoking.
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
The way that I interpreted that is, okay, we don't want to die, and w- we all want to sign up to don't die, but none of us want to sign up to don't live.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, with, with living, you're mapping that to, like, some sensorial pleasure. Like, you-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Just some kind of p- yeah.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Some kind of pleasure, whether it's having a couple of cocktails or-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... staying up late and watching Netflix or-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... whatever it might be.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, yeah, and you're trying to find the things that create the stimuli that you, you care about. Yeah.
- 23:56 – 26:56
What Are the Consequences of Extending Our Lives?
- SBSteven Bartlett
everybody gets older, isn't there gonna be, like, huge disparities in, like, wealth and stuff? Because I read some stats that the global share of wealth held by people over the age of 65 is increasing. In 2020, people aged 65 and older held 35% of global wealth. By 2050, they're projected to hold almost 50% of global wealth.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Isn't it gonna be the case that if we're all living longer, you'd imagine, like, think about some of the richest people in the world now. They would just accrue more and more wealth. Older generations would have more wealth, and younger generations would-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... would have very little. There'd be this kind of disparity within society. The 250-year-olds will all be, like, billionaires-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.Yeah, that's just an engineering problem. It's a sci- it's, it's public policy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, do you believe in like a universal basic income where we hand money to people?
- BJBryan Johnson
I mean, I don't think... It's not a reason to not want the future. It's not a reason to not want longevity. It's not a reason why we shouldn't extend lives. It's not a reason why somebody should be deprived. It's not like if you're wealthy and you're old, you should die. You know, it's like, it's everyone's got this opportunity for life, and if there's a, a very large disparity and it's getting worse, it's a public policy problem.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you not think from like a philosophical standpoint that death is part of life? I... If you look at any sort of animal kingdom, death is part of the sort of natural attrition that creates new offspring, new mutations-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... new, um, energy, new ideas, I guess.
- BJBryan Johnson
It has been the system of intelligence that produced us.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
We have now taken the reins, and we are now the new system of intelligence that's creating life going forward.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When did we take the reins?
- BJBryan Johnson
When we started learning how to engineer biology. When we, when we... This is what I spent the past 10 years doing, is my observation was after selling Braintree Venmo, it's amazing that we have been able to create the capability set in the digital world. You take a problem that can be solved by people sitting down at a computer and coding software, we can... As a species, we're extraordinarily good at it. Millions and millions of people that can do it and solve problems very quickly. If you take a problem in the physical world, like we say the coral reef is dying around the world, which is creating a major problem in these, in oceans. How do you make a coral reef that is more robust to heat or to big d- you know, variations? You need to have the same programmability of programming, of building a new coral reef that can do that sort of thing if that's a, an apro- an approach to the problem. We need to have those abilities. And so the goal I had was, we need this foundational technology so that any problem in the physical world, whether it be our health, the health of the oceans, anything, you know, building a global bo- uh, biological immune system, we need to have these physical abilities. And so once you have that, you can program physical reality, including, uh, conscious states, including earth health, including our health and wellness. All things become possibilities.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you... Are you talking about Kernel?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, no, my... I had a venture fund.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is Kernel? What are you doing with Kernel?
- 26:56 – 36:52
Brain Scans & My Psychedelic Experience
- SBSteven Bartlett
- BJBryan Johnson
Kernel is a way for us to use science and data to build our best cognitive existence. So like, for example, it's easy for each of us to, to get on a scale and see our weight. And when we see weight is climbing very quickly, uh, you know, we think that's not a good situation because that leads to bad health outcomes, I don't feel great. And so there's like a, a... It's a good feedback mechanism for how well am I doing with my health, with my weight. We don't have the same equivalent for our brains. You can get an MRI or you can get a PET scan. They're great, but they're hard to get. They are expensive. Uh, it's very laborious to actually do it. We need to be able to acquire information about our brains as easy as it is to step on a scale and get our weight. And that's why we built a Kernel, is... It's a bike helmet, you put it on your head, and you find out important information about your brain.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I had my brain scanned last week. Have you seen your brain?
- BJBryan Johnson
I have.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Of course you've seen your brain.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you find out anything about your brain?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, I did. Well, I wanted to demonstrate that you could ask a question, what happens when... And then take a given thing about the brain, like what happens when I do a psychedelic? What happens when I play a game? What happens when I don't sleep well? What happens when... And all the things we do that affects our brain. And in this case, I was a pilot participant for ketamine. So we ran a 15-person ketamine study. Ketamine is a anesthetic, also used to tranquilize horses, also a party drug. And so I received a dose of intra- of ketamine in my arm, and then I was in that experience for 45 minutes. And what we saw was interesting in that I had my brain measured for 10 minutes a day for five days before, during the ketamine experience, and then fi- then, uh, 14 days afterwards. And I think that was... The most interesting thing is my brain patterns... Like, if you think about the patterns, like imagine you're looking at planet Earth and there's airports all over the Earth, and you're seeing traffic patterns between each airport. So between Tokyo and New York, there's a lot of traffic. London and New York, a lot of traffic. But between, you know, smaller cities, you have just a few planes here and there. There's big traffic patterns in our brains of where activity is happening, and those patterns tell you things about yourself, like sounds like you had some analysis done. And when I did keta- when I did the five days of measurement, my patterns in my brain were stable. Every single day, they were the same, the same traffic from the same place to and from. And then when I did ketamine, it scrambled all of my patterns. It's like you took the globe and you just like remapped where all the airports were and like, okay, planes start flying. And then over... On day, day three, four, my pattern started forming again back in a similar way. And so there was that two to... like one to three-day therapeutic window where I was very open to new pattern creation. And it was... There's this joke among my colleagues where we were walking from one meeting to another, and there was a wall that was in front of us, and I... It was day two after I took ketamine, and I thought, "I'm going to jump over the wall." Like that seemed like a fun idea. Why not? So I just spontaneously jumped over the wall. And then all my colleagues were like, "What are you doing?" (laughs) "We're in a work environment. We don't jump over walls." And I hadn't thought about it in that frame, but I wonder if in that moment, I was open to doing something different and unique that I normally wouldn't have done because I had this opening. But it was cool to see my patterns, where they were, how they changed, and how they reformed in some kind of window that opened up as how I could remap my own experience.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I mean, that's probably a pretty compelling case for psychedelics as it relates to mental health.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, you know, if we think of me- some mental health disorders as being stuck in patterns, patterns of thinking, patterns of belief, patterns of behavior, um, there's been quite incredible clinical studies done to show the impact that something like psilocybin-
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... or ibogaine can have on addiction or depression.What's your view on psychedelics?
- BJBryan Johnson
They're powerful. Yeah, and I hope that Kernel accelerates their progress because most of the- the measurements are done through questionnaires. You're asking the person how they felt, how they felt and their p- perspective, but we know that our subjective experiences are not terribly reliable. Like, when I- after I had ketamine, if I were to use words to explain what I experienced, I don't know. If I'm asked on day three how I felt on day one, it's hard to remember. Now, you can journal or try to make, uh, more detailed notes, but it's really hard to subjectively account for your brain. And so having a- a- a system that tracks the data removes some of that challenge and it could help usher in, uh, psychedelics for a much broader adoption much faster 'cause you've got data to support what you're trying to demonstrate.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you tried all the psychedelics?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ayahuasca?
- BJBryan Johnson
I've had some experiences.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mushrooms? I've done mushrooms.
- BJBryan Johnson
What'd you think?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really interesting experience.
- BJBryan Johnson
Did it- did it change your- your opinion or your perspective of your own mind?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes. Yes. Um, I was overseas, I think I was in Peru or something, and I was at a mushroom ceremony, whatever, and I'd taken the treatment that the shaman or whatever had given me. And I didn't think it was working, so I went over and sat down on my laptop (laughs)
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) Yeah, oh no.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really fucking bad idea.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I... For whatever reason, and this is so un-me, I clicked on, like, Netflix because everyone was over there and they were all having their experience. I thought, "I'll just- I'll just watch something on Netflix." And I don't watch, I didn't even watch Netflix. I clicked something on Netflix and as I'm watching it, it's like some, I don't know, some reality TV thing. And it just becomes really apparent to me that these people's values that I'm watching are, like, really bad. They're all, like, bitching about each other and they're all being mean to each other. And at that very moment, the world started to just spin and shake and I put the laptop away and went and joined the gang, wrote about 35 notes of, um, of handwriting, again, I never write with my hands- Mm.
- BJBryan Johnson
... about connection.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- BJBryan Johnson
And in that moment, I learnt that, like, my perception of reality is so fragile.
- 36:52 – 39:42
The Most Compelling Argument Against Blueprint
- SBSteven Bartlett
against your do not die position? The one that troubles you the most.
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) I'm entirely unconvinced by any argument that I've ever heard about it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you entirely convinced by the do not die argument?
- BJBryan Johnson
I'm convinced that, through the thought experiment I did, if I, if I try to transport myself to the 25th century, and of course, they have a sober- a, a detached, cold soberness, objective soberness looking back at the 21st century that we don't. Just like we look back at a history and we can see with clarity what... We're so caught up in this moment, we're blinded by so many of these realities. And they would look back, I'm, I'm convinced by my thought experiment that they'd look back and be like, "Of course. In the early 21st century, homo sapiens figured out that they had developed the technology to continually expand their life, and that..." So it's the, like, the homo, homo sapien culture shifted to the preservation of life. Whereas right now, we're all on the death track, and then we play all the fun games along the death track, but it's, we just, we have to shift the entire zeitgeist where we, we do the exact opposite of what we're doing today. In term, instead of embracing and celebrating death rituals, we move entirely to ex- life extension rituals.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you think li- living forever is possible? Or even reverse reversing age?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. I mean, I, so like, basically with all the arguments, I come down to this idea, uh, this is akin to us, to us interviewing homo erectus a million years ago, and asking homo erectus to make observations on what it's going to be like to be homo sapiens a million years later. Have our kind of cognition, have our technology. Homo erectus would have nothing, like almost nothing useful to say. Do we care what they want or don't want, what they're scared of? Do we value it in any way? Like, it's interesting from just an observational perspective, but do we really think that homo erectus has wisdom of some sort that would allow us to, um, yeah, to step into this existence? And that's where I think that we're at now is like we're basically... We're sufficiently primitive in our thought. I don't believe in anything we say as it relates to the, to the future. Because the intelligence we're walking into is so far superior to ours, why would we even begin to imagine that we can express an opinion that is meaningful?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you see it almost like we're walking into a different species of human?
- BJBryan Johnson
Entirely. I mean, unquestionably that's happening.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the really interesting things that's going on is this thing called CRISPR.
- 39:42 – 42:18
The Endless Possibilities of Genetic Engineering
- SBSteven Bartlett
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Genetic engineering. What is, what is that? CRISPR genetic engineering? I know you did, um, you did some kind of DNA therapy, didn't you?
- BJBryan Johnson
I did, I did my first gene therapy.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Gene therapy, yeah.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is, what is all of that, and what's the promise that it holds for us? CRISPR genetic engineering and what was your gene therapy?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, currently there's a ceiling on human lifespan, you know, like 120 or so, that if, if you, if you, uh, live a life a certain way and you're given a genetic lottery, then you can do that. But to punch through 120 is very difficult through lifestyle and diet and exercise. And so to, to really punch through the ceiling, you need to start working at the genetic level. And so whether you're doing, uh, there's, uh, gene therapy, whether you're doing CRISPR, there's a variety of ways you can start modifying, uh, your genetic code. And this has the power or potential to punch through the ceiling.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So explain that to an idiot. Gene therapy is injecting genes into you? Someone else's genes? Genes that have been made in a laboratory?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Or...
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, so this one is, I just got two injections on either side in my obliques here, and, uh, what it does is it expresses the protein, uh, follistatin. And so basically, I, before I have a certain level, uh, like, like eight or nine, and once you get the therapy, you're higher, like 20s, 30s, 40s. And so it's just increasing, it's increasing the amount of, uh, follistatin in my body. And so like one way to understand this is when you work out, myostatin, um, lessens the amount of muscle growth that can happen. Follistatin suppresses myostatin so you have more muscle mass. But it has a whole bunch of other effects as well. This gene therapy didn't change my actual genes, it just increases the expression of follistatin in my body.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And how do you know if it works?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, measure them. So yeah, I do routine... Well, so there's a few things we're doing. Uh, we're measuring this via my blood, what are my follistatin levels before and after, and then we're also measuring my body with MRI. And so because I'm the most measured person in history, we have this interesting vantage point where we can see across my entire body, from my muscle and my, um, my fat and bone and speed and DNA methylation patterns from my speed of aging, to my brain health, like working at hundreds and hundred data points to see what effect it has.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And have you found an effect yet?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, our first results are coming back next week.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Someone like me who is, you know, on the high street per se,
- 42:18 – 49:07
High Street Supplements for Anti-Aging: What Really Works
- SBSteven Bartlett
what are the supplements that are on the high street that, that do actually work for anti-aging? 'Cause people talk about NAD+ and stuff and they-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
There's all these clinics now popping up all over London where you can sit in the chair for two hours-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and have the little drip in your arm and stuff.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I did it once-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... um, 'cause my friend had opened a, a place, and I, I had a very hot chest.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like a burning feeling in my chest. I don't know if it's done anything for me. So I've just got to, it goes back to what I said earlier, you just got to kind of believe in it or not like a religion.
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs) Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's best to measure it. So you're, you're trying to change your intracellular NAD.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm sure other people have done- measured it, though. So does it work?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, the- the drips don't.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The drips don't work?
- BJBryan Johnson
That you- you want sustained levels of NAD. And so, we... Yeah, so I mean, we extensively measure my NAD levels, and we've tested NMN, we've tested NR, we've looked at all the different modalities. You want sustained levels. So my levels when I first started, I think they were, uh, equivalent of something like 47 years of age, and now they're reliably age 18. Like I have that much- I have age 18 levels of NAD, intracellular NAD. And we dialed that dosage in because I was able to measure it. And the- the challenge, of course, is when you do these things haphazardly, get a drip or whatever, it's- it's what you're saying, it's a story. It's a market- it's clever marketing. It's happy faces. It's what your friends are doing. But it's not based on any reality. You need to see it working in your body. Otherwise, you know, be careful, I mean, when- when you're doing it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, the only reason it doesn't work is because it's not sustained? But it would work if it was sustained. So if I did that every week, then it would work?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, you also have to consider the half-life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- BJBryan Johnson
So I- I don't know all the data on the drips. I know the data much better on NMN and NR. But-
- SBSteven Bartlett
But those things then, you- you take them orally?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, orally every day. Twice a day, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Twice a day. And those things work?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Sure.
- BJBryan Johnson
They reliably maintain my NAD, my ICNAD levels, uh, at a 18-year-old level.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What are some of these big, um, anti-aging therapies, or businesses, or supplements that most people have just thrown themselves into-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... or habits, in terms of longevity habits-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- 49:07 – 1:01:00
The Surprising Impact of Nighttime Erections
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is it?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, I brought you two things today.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- BJBryan Johnson
One, I, I brought you a test.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay, what is it?
- BJBryan Johnson
This test.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay, that's the test.
- BJBryan Johnson
It's your speed of aging test.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, shit.
- BJBryan Johnson
So you should (laughs) everybody should know three things, you know, how much you weigh, how fast you're aging-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
... and the duration of your nighttime erections.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Is that what the other thing is?
- BJBryan Johnson
That's the other device.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, shit.
- BJBryan Johnson
So we're-
- SBSteven Bartlett
The duration?
- BJBryan Johnson
Basically, yeah. So both these are going to give you a good baseline with where you're at in life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So how do I, how do I do, how do I do this? Is this-
- BJBryan Johnson
I can, I can adminis- oh, wait, yeah. I can administer that test for you if you want. So I, what it requires is we'll prick your finger.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- BJBryan Johnson
Get a little blood.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- BJBryan Johnson
Put it on the card-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- BJBryan Johnson
... and then we'll send it to the processing, to the, to, to the, um, the center where they're gonna process it and you'll get your results back. And it will tell you how fast your aging clock is internally.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How does it know that from a prick of blood?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, because your body leaves chemical signatures that reveal the data.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay, and then I can reverse that presumably?
- BJBryan Johnson
Yes, you-
- 1:01:00 – 1:05:52
Reversing Hair Loss
- SBSteven Bartlett
going on? It doesn't-
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it doesn't happen in women-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah. I know. You, you-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... typically.
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, yeah, it's- it's really quite annoying that it's such a big problem. I wish I didn't have to pay attention to it as much as I do.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, it just requires constant attention. And it's- it's a, uh, the technology is not that great yet. You know, like, you're- you're basically trying to slow the process, you're trying to improve follicle strength, you're trying to prevent future damage, but it's not like something where I could... like a gene therapy, where I c- with two injections, I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your levels go up.
- BJBryan Johnson
... 3 or 4X my- the production of that critical, uh, biochemical in my body. Uh, it's not the case there. Now, there's technology people are working on for cloning, so you take a few of your follicles, you clone that, and you reempl- you put them in. So, basically, like, doing a- a hair transplant, but you're cloning, you're doing your own- your own hair. So, there's other technologies that are emergent that are promising, they're just not on market yet. So, yeah, it's- it's hard and it's, like, being, as a man, being bald is a meaningful thing, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
It's like a- it's a significant psychological situation. So, like, if you look, if you tick through the issues of be, of, like, a man would really struggle with psychologically, you know, being bald, not being able to have erections, like, those- those are two of your top five things. And so as, you know, I hope that the things I talk about publicly help break the stigma around it, so that, uh, people feel hope they can do something about it, they don't have to hide it. It- it's- it's challenging and it- it's heavy to deal with it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do you think about air quality? I've been thinking a lot about this. I had James Nestor on this podcast, he was talking to me about the harm of, like, in-room CO2 and-
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... stuff like that.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yeah, I agree. Uh, my house is, I have devices a- around the entire house measuring those things every moment of every day, and I have air filters in every room. And so, the quali- air quality in my house is pristine. In Los Angeles, the air quality is not great. And so, I typically will avoid significant outdoor activities on days when the air quality is particularly bad, but I'm always aware of it. So, I have monitors in my house that tell me the outdoor air quality and the indoor air quality in every room.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's the harm that you're trying to avoid?
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, it's damaging. There's, like, the- the, uh, the P2-, uh, 2.5, uh, there's a few things that are very damaging and they can get lodged, for example, in your lungs, and it's very hard to get it out. So, there's a lot of sustained damage that's just hard to undo.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Kate.
- BJBryan Johnson
Yes?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Kate Tollo. Is that her name, Tollo?
- BJBryan Johnson
Kate Tollo.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Kate, will you come on out?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Kate is a 27-year-old former fashion strategist and is Bryan's chief marketing officer.
- BJBryan Johnson
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But she's also the first woman to ever sign up and follow the Blueprint way of living. And Kate is here. (page turns) Health, wellness, or medical entrepreneurs, I'm joining your industry to fix the outdated and unfair business models that you have been victim to. I'm really excited to announce that I've become an investor and co-founder in Untile, which is a disruptive new solution for all of the frustrated, undervalued, and underserved health, wellness, and medical entrepreneurs that are trying to grow their business. If you're a well care entrepreneur looking to grow your business, the link is in the description to join the waiting list. We accept roughly 20 practitioners every month, we have multiple sites opening all across London, and I really believe if you're in that industry and this sounds like something that might be of interest to you, then this is for you. (page turns) Just a quick interruption for a brand that is very close to us here at The Diary of a CEO, who are sponsoring this episode of this podcast, and that is British Airways. If you're like me and you love a good deal, I think you're going to want to hear about this. The British Airways business class sale is in full swing, and the potential savings are enormous. We're talking savings of up to 1,000 pounds on a return business class flight to places like New York, Boston, and Chicago. Plus, you can save even more on their incredible packages to both the USA and to Europe. That includes those premium business class flights and a luxury hotel stay. There's something different about flying business with British Airways, as I think you guys all know if you've ever done it. It's not just the seat that converts fully into a flat bed, or the menu, or the fact that you can watch The Diary of a CEO on the in-flight entertainment system. It's the personal touch, the experts that make you feel relaxed and at home in the sky. And here's the thing, you've got until the 13th of November, so don't sit on it. Head over to ba.com to find your deal now. (page turns) Okay. So, Bryan, who is Kate to you?
- BJBryan Johnson
(laughs)
- 1:05:52 – 1:14:02
Testing the Human Blueprint Program on Others
- BJBryan Johnson
Uh, Kate had the pioneering spirit that helped give birth to Blueprint. We- we'd began working together at Kernel. Uh, we were focused on measuring the brain and how humans could co-evolve with AI, and we started talking about the possibilities of what Blueprint could be. We were, the project was underway and we were trying to figure out how we could communicate this, and Kate saw the potential immediately, and has been building this with me for several years.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did you decide to work with Bryan, and why did you decide to develop Blueprint?
- KDKate Dollo
I grew up in a very small town with a very small field of view, and as I got more experience in the world, that view opened farther and farther. And I was in New York, and I was working in fashion at the time, and I was sitting in a cafe and I'd spent the year learning about AI coming to mainstream and what, how is the human species going to deal with this? And I felt very strongly the only way to proceed forward as a species would be to latch ourselves onto AI and to merge with AI in some way.And so, I was in this position where I had all of this energy and I was like, "I want to throw it out there into the world. I don't want to do anything on my own," and there weren't many people talking about this as a problem. And one day, I was sitting in a café and I got an email in my inbox from Singularity University, and it included a quote from this man, Bryan Johnson, back in 2016. And it, it referenced merging with AI, and I thought, "That's the person that I want to work with and throw my energy toward." And so, I reached out to him (laughs) and across like every medium. Uh, so literally his medium articles, email, social media, and I never heard back. And then year after year, I just kept pinging him and pinging him, and then eventually I, I moved out to LA to work with Bryan.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And what do you do for Bryan?
- KDKate Dollo
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said you work, you work with Bryan.
- KDKate Dollo
I intentionally keep it very vague 'cause we do everything together. We are two peas in a pod and, um, from the very beginning, you know, both at Kernel and at Blueprint, we've just done anything and everything that needs to be done. My background is creative, so I, I lean more towards that side of things, so the marketing and just general brand design, that kind of stuff. But, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you've become the first woman to follow the Blueprint protocol?
- KDKate Dollo
That's right, yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I remember hearing about the Blue- Blueprint protocol, um, last time we had this conversation, and one of the things that stood out to me is the amount of sacrifice-
- KDKate Dollo
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... that goes into living in line with it.
- KDKate Dollo
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Things like getting up at a certain time and then going to sleep at a certain time, and-
- KDKate Dollo
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... things that you eat. Are you following all of that?
- KDKate Dollo
Yes. I'm definitely not as extensive as Bryan is because, uh, I've just started the protocol, but that was a big decision factor for both of us when we were considering this. One is, it is incredibly laborious on our team to bring up another person. Um, but not only that, it means completely changing my lifestyle. And so, when we were contemplating doing this decision, I really gave it a lot of serious thought because I know that the public are going to follow along. You know, it's a really big decision for my life, it's a big decision for our team and for the resources that get, get put- put behind it. And so early on, we decided that I was going to do a 30-day trial before we made any of this public to make sure that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- KDKate Dollo
Am I capable? Am I willing? Is this something that I actually want to take on? And so, yeah, it meant completely, uh, redefining what my life li- and lifestyle is.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And wh- where are we at now with that 30-day trial?
- KDKate Dollo
Yes. So I've done my 30-day trial and I'm on about day 90 of Blueprint. So, I successfully did my first 30 days which was, yeah, really, really difficult.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're day 90 now?
- KDKate Dollo
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How long are you gonna do it for?
- KDKate Dollo
That's the thing. It's an algorithm, so that was definitely something I was conscious of. This is maybe one of the last decisions I really made because I was just starting to walk into the unknown. Like, I didn't know exactly how many pills I'd be taking, what my protocol would be, how many blood draws would I be going into. It was really, am I okay revoking my conscious mind from making this decision making and stepping into the unknown?
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, what does your life look like now on a day-to-day basis?
- KDKate Dollo
So I... So this, this was establishing, you know... The first 30 days was really just the trial, and so um, I'm... We're still in the process of figuring out, you know, what I'm... We're still in the process of personalizing essentially to, to my data. But what I do is I try and get 100% sleep every single night. I do perfect nutrition, so I eat the same thing as Bryan every single day. So it's 1,700 calories perfectly, you know, um, mapped out. And then I take over 60 supplements every single day and I, I, I aim to get a certain amount of, um, cardio and strength training and exercise in every week.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And how has it been going?
- KDKate Dollo
It, it was really difficult. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- 1:14:02 – 1:15:13
Becoming the Top 7% Fittest in My Age Group
- SBSteven Bartlett
although it's just been 90 days-
- KDKate Dollo
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what have you noticed, changes?
- KDKate Dollo
So as far as actual, like, results and data it was, it was very, um, straightforward. Everything improved pretty much across the board. Um, so my, my restorative sleep increased by 19% in 30 days. Um, my flexibility improved. My strength improved, like my, my leg press one rep, uh, one rep, one rep max went from 220 pounds to 360 pounds in 30 days. Um, I did, uh, VO2 max testing, um, so my body's ability to use oxygen. A- when I first did it at the start of the 30 days, I was put at the 51st percentile, so if you look at, like, an age graph, you'd be able to predict exactly what age I am. I was spot on average. And then after 30 days, I had increased into the top 7% of fitness for my, um, age and gender, which is huge for me because I'm someone who has never exercised a day in my life before this. I'd never gone on runs. I hated the gym. I'd never been trained in the gym. It was just something that was like the antithesis of anti-Kate, you know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- KDKate Dollo
Um, so yeah. Huge, huge changes on my end. And my blood work improved. We're still waiting on my oxidized LDL to come back, but generally everything, everything looks really good.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's your take on that, on things that have improved and the changes you've seen in her?
- 1:15:13 – 1:17:55
Balancing the Blueprint Program and My Former Social Life
- SBSteven Bartlett
- BJBryan Johnson
I think the, the most interesting and, uh, entertaining was the existential crises.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- BJBryan Johnson
Where they be- they became so frequent I would send her messages just like in a, a joking fashion, like, "Hey," (laughs) , "Like hope your existential crisis is going well today. How can, uh, how can I help?" Yeah, but she really was, I, I applaud her because she jumped in with both feet and she was willing to share the entirety of her internal experience. So she didn't try to camouflage any of her pain. She didn't try to, uh, be tougher than she was. She was just open and transparent about the entire process. And I think that people around us, the entire team and, uh, those observing drew a lot of inspiration because she was open about everything, about what she was struggling with internally, and, uh, she was willing to step into the problem. Like, she, she didn't miss a single day, and that's hard. Like, there's a lot of, uh, motivation to quit or to take a day off, and so I am really pleased that, um, she gave it a go and, uh, she prevailed. It wou- would have been very easy for her to quit.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hey, you're 27.
- KDKate Dollo
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, sacrifice.
- KDKate Dollo
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People think of 20, your 20s, sacrifice they think going out, partying. Did you do that stuff before? Did you, like, date, you know, all that kinda stuff?
- KDKate Dollo
Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh, definitely was a big consideration for me. And, like, the other thing to add is Blueprint, especially at the level we're trying to do this at is a full-time endeavor, and so you have to fit this into your existing lifestyle, and so it's really difficult. Even things like, you know, during that 30-day trial, we travel for work and I remember we got back one day and it was like 6:00 PM or something like that and everyone was like zonked after being on the road for three days or something like that, and I was like, "I gotta go exercise now, guys." And everyone was like, "What?" (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- KDKate Dollo
But that's the thing, like, you know, my data, it demanded it. My body demanded it. And so I was gonna do it. It wasn't about, you know, what I wanted in that moment or not. Um, so it is a very intense thing to commit to. As far as like the socializing and all that kinda stuff, yeah, I, I was someone who, you know, would stay up, I mean, I would stay up working a lot of the time. Like, I'm a grind culture child. Like, I, I really did throw myself into it. So I would say that's probably the thing that changed the most. On the socializing thing, like, my friends have been so, uh, accommodating. You know, I, and we'd go out for brunch still and I would bring my Blueprint tin and just sit at the table while, you know, other people were having their, you know, maybe their mimosas with orange juice in it. Um, but yeah, I think there have been easy ways to make it fit into my life and the people around me have been really accommodating, which is lovely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's been the biggest and the hardest sacrifice? The
- 1:17:55 – 1:21:38
The Toughest Sacrifices Made
- SBSteven Bartlett
thing that you, you know, maybe on the difficult days you miss a little bit?
- KDKate Dollo
You know, this is so sad, but my, the first thing that comes to my mind is oat milk lattes. (laughs) Like I'm such a-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- KDKate Dollo
... typical, you know, uh, yeah, young person now. But yeah, I, you know, there's like little y- you realize, you c- come face to face with the fact that a lot of life's small joys are baked into the things that you do on a routine basis. And so it to- it took me a while to remap those things, um, but now-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you drink before?
- KDKate Dollo
No. I mean, a- I was, I was like a normal-
- SBSteven Bartlett
For sure. Yeah.
- KDKate Dollo
... normal person, yeah. So drinks on the weekend with friends.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wouldn't you feel a little bit guilty if you quit doing this? After everything the team have invested in you, Brian's faith in you-
- KDKate Dollo
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... does that not feel like a bit of a pressure?
- KDKate Dollo
Yes, it does. However, this was also, you can't let those things drive you when you're on Blueprint. So for example, I, halfway through my, my 30-day period, I started to really not feel great and I would watch my heart rate. You know, as you get better at exercises, uh, exercise, your fitness improves, it's harder to get your heart rate up, and I was going against this metric of I need to get my heart rate over 173 beats per minute, um, to hit this vigorous heart rate zone to get my markers, um, up.And I was pushing myself and pushing myself. I was, you know, I documented all this, all, you know, for our YouTube channel and whatnot. But I was at this point where I was crying on the weekend and I was like, "I don't know if I can do this. Like, I think I have to give up." Because I just couldn't get my heart rate up. And it took me a second to realize that Priority Kate had snuck in again, but in this really subtle, you know, backdoor kind of way, where I was holding myself to this expectation of I needed to do these very intense things so I could prove to the public that I can do this. That I'm gonna be, you know, this Blueprint XX. When in reality, the Blueprint way is actually stop, look at the data. And if I had done that, I really would've seen that my, my HIV was down, my recovery was down. Like, my body was asking for a break, but my conscious mind was stepping in and saying, "You need to prioritize the viewpoint of others and how they're gonna think of you, and make sure you just hit these goals regardless of what the data says." So I think that, to answer your question, if I'm people pleasing in that way, I just get in my own way. But if you stop and look at the data, that's where actually the insight comes from.
Episode duration: 1:43:25
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