I've PROVEN This Food Keeps You Young & This Oil Reduces Inflammation by 85%! Bryan Johnson

Steven Bartlett 0:00 What on Earth have you given me?

Bryan Johnson 0:02 That is how you can measure your nighttime erections. It's unbelievable in ways it improves health and wellness.

Steven Bartlett 0:09 Bryan Johnson is back.

Bryan Johnson 0:11 The billionaire who's spending $2 million a year to-

Steven Bartlett 0:15 To stay young forever.

Bryan Johnson 0:16 Through algorithmic precision. This is the most impactful humanitarian project ever. I'm trying to find the very best science in the world for how you can extend your life.

Steven Bartlett 0:24 So how has it been going?

Bryan Johnson 0:25 Honestly, I'm in the absolute peak performance of my entire life. I've extended my lifespan over 30%, reduced my age by 12 years, increased muscle and strength, and now six months of perfect sleep. I've accomplished the best sleep score in history. A demonstration of human ability 'cause if I can do it, everyone else can do it too. Every second of every day, we're all trying not to die. That's what we're doing as a society right now. It's not working very well, but if an algorithm could manage your health and wellness for you and achieve near perfect health, would you opt into that? Because we found it.

Steven Bartlett 1:01 But what can the average person do?

Bryan Johnson 1:03 One thing that works is (censored) .

Steven Bartlett 1:05 Really?

Bryan Johnson 1:06 Yeah. I- it's like the super of super foods. There you go.

Steven Bartlett 1:10 That is not how you're meant to have that. And what comes next?

Bryan Johnson 1:14 The best is yet to come. Kate Dollo.

Steven Bartlett 1:17 Kate, will you come on out?

Bryan Johnson 1:20 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:21 So you're the first woman on Earth to follow Bryan's lifestyle? That's right. What's been the biggest sacrifice? (laughs) Quick one. This is really, really fascinating to me. On the back end of our YouTube channel, it says that 69.9% of you that watch this channel frequently over the lifetime of this channel haven't yet hit the subscribe button. I just wanted to ask you a favor. It helps this channel so much if you choose to su- subscribe. Helps us scale the guests, helps us scale the production, and it makes the show bigger. So if I could ask you for one favor, if you've watched the show before and you've enjoyed it and you like this episode that you're currently watching, could you please hit the subscribe button? Thank you so much, and I will repay that gesture by making sure that everything we do here gets better and better and better and better. That is a promise I'm willing to make you. Do we have a deal? Bryan, you're now coming up on

Steven Bartlett 2:17 th- almost three years since you started Blueprint, which is your sort of anti-aging, life extending, longevity protocol. Is that accurate?

Bryan Johnson 2:26 That's accurate.

Steven Bartlett 2:28 Give me a overview of the benefits you've been able to achieve in those three years.

Bryan Johnson 2:33 Hmm. I legitimately have never been happier in my entire life.

Steven Bartlett 2:39 Why?

Bryan Johnson 2:39 It, it's like when you have a, a series of bad nights of sleep and you, like, you're eating poorly and you sleep poorly, in a week or two, you just normalize to that new norm. You don't realize what you've lost, it just becomes invisible to you. And then when you bounce back after a really great night's sleep and you take care of yourself, you make the observation, "This is the most remarkable thing ever. I wish I could exist like this all the time." And I've hit that state where I'm in the absolute peak performance of my entire life. I've never been as well rested, I've never been as clear, with, uh, greater clarity of mind. I've never, uh, been more calm emotionally. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm not provoked. I'm not irritable. Things are that I struggled with before.

Steven Bartlett 3:23 It's true that you don't know how bad you felt until you feel good.

Bryan Johnson 3:27 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 3:27 I can relate.

Bryan Johnson 3:28 (laughs) It's... Dealing with oneself is, uh, the most challenging thing. This is from my experience, the most challenging thing in my existence is understanding my own self. Like, uh, trying to map out where I'm self-aware and where I'm unaware, where my self-awareness ends, and what I've normalized to and can no longer see, what status quo hides from me, what biases I have in my brain, what blind spots I have. I'm blind to so much of reality, and I just have no idea. And the brain plays these tricks on us where we believe with confidence that we ha- we're the master of our reality, that we see all things, we feel all things, that if something's missing, we're going to note it. But really, my life has become trying to find out what's invisible to me.

Steven Bartlett 4:12 What are some of those psychological biases that you think most people still don't realize are, are illusions?

Bryan Johnson 4:16 (laughs) Oh, man. It's, like, my f- most favorite topic, because we are fooled into thinking that we truly understand our situation, our reality. And there's so many easy tricks one can play. Like even something simple, like if you prime somebody with words like, uh, grandma, grandmother or grandfather or, like, you know, like things that trigger thoughts of old age or being slow, and then you ask the person to walk down the hallway to do a task, those who have been primed with old sounding word, old relate, uh, associated words and young, the old associated walk more slowly, and the young walked qua- quicker. We incorporate all these things into the way we act and the way we think and what we internally, uh, generate. And we just... It's beyond our awareness.

Steven Bartlett 5:09 So for people that don't know what the word priming means, essentially, if you just say those words to somebody, if you say grandmother or grandfather or old associated, elderly associated words to somebody, in studies, they then walk slower. I'm really interested in the behavioral stuff because I think most of us are governed by

Steven Bartlett 5:24 a set of stories that we've-

Bryan Johnson 5:25 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 5:25 ... come to learn... believe about ourselves, that we probably learnt from false evidence along the way. And we're now living our lives in accordance with that false instr- instruction manual. Like, there's a puppet master pulling the strings telling me-

Bryan Johnson 5:37 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 5:37 ... that I am a entrepreneur that does a podcast and that I am a-

Bryan Johnson 5:40 (laughs) Right.

Steven Bartlett 5:40 ... I'm unorganized and I'm, you know, whatever it might be, you know?

Bryan Johnson 5:44 (laughs) I love that. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 5:44 How does one go about understanding that those words are governing our lives, but then also more importantly, getting rid of the, the, the power that they're exerting over us?

Bryan Johnson 5:52 There's a few things I do on a daily basis to help me. One, I read a book by Gary Becker, The Economics of Life, uh, when I was, uh, 24 years old. And he would take any given topic like poverty, something that would be non...... you wouldn't think that this thing relates to math and economics. It's just, like, this so- social phenomena that I would have previously heard someone tell me a story about, and he would break them down, uh, using economics. And I thought, "That's unreal." A world understood through numbers and graphs and models, not through stories. No one's going to tell me any story, they're just going to lay this out. And I realize that there are limitations, of course, to those things. Like, stories are embedded in those to some extent. However, from the world I came from where it was dominant on, on story, to see that the world could be objectively measured, understood, and quantified changed my reality. And so now when I look at a given situation, I try to identify what is the numerical representation of this thing? What is the mathematical formula? What is the graph that explains this phenomena? Not through a story lens, but, like, what actually are... what systems are at play? So you try to parse through all the, all the decoys that would otherwise take me down a dif- different path and then secondarily is I-

Steven Bartlett 7:04 Give me an example of that. What's an example?

Bryan Johnson 7:07 I mean, so like, uh, what determines whether I have high quality sleep? (laughs) And most the time in... Pr- previously in my life, my sleep quality was something like a random. I would go to sleep, and I would have no idea what was impacting why I would get high quality sleep or not.

Steven Bartlett 7:24 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 7:24 And that I could numerically back out, that's what I've done over the past few years is what elements contribute to and how those biological processes function and then what happens when, and you can map out the entirety of that process.

Steven Bartlett 7:36 Last time we s- we had spoken, I think you were on four months

Steven Bartlett 7:39 of perfect sleep.

Bryan Johnson 7:40 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 7:41 Where are you at now?

Bryan Johnson 7:43 I completed six months of perfect sleep.

Steven Bartlett 7:47 And what does perfect sleep mean for you?

Bryan Johnson 7:48 Uh, 100% sleep score.

Steven Bartlett 7:50 And that's judged by?

Bryan Johnson 7:52 Uh, my wearable. By, by Whoop.

Steven Bartlett 7:54 Okay.

Bryan Johnson 7:54 And so before I did this, nobody had achieved that series of, of 100% scores, and many people who, who have had a device like that for over a year have never once achieved a 100% sleep score. And what I was trying to do was something akin to, like, a four-minute mile or Amelia Earhart flying the plane across the Atlantic or, you know, someone climbing Everest. It was basically a demonstration of human ability that people didn't think was possible, and then once one person demonstrates it, it opens it up for everyone else. Because if I can do it, everyone else knows they can do it too. And so I wanted to show that reliable, high quality sleep is achievable, and that if you do that, it could potentially give you the best cognitive and emotional performance of your life.

Steven Bartlett 8:47 Do you think there's a human being, an adult human being on planet Earth that's slept better than you for the last six months?

Bryan Johnson 8:54 There's currently no one that has shared data that has achieved that. So i- if we're just looking at the data alone, which is not an entire representation, then yeah, I- I've accomplished the best sleep score in history.

Steven Bartlett 9:08 Pretty impressive. And, uh, for the, for... Just to r- recap so I'm, I'm clear, because I know we discussed this last time, you go to bed at, like, 8:00 PM, right?

Bryan Johnson 9:16 8:30.

Steven Bartlett 9:17 8:30. And your last meal of the day is before midday.

Bryan Johnson 9:20 Yeah, that's right. 11:00 AM.

Steven Bartlett 9:22 8:30. And you're still doing that, you're still going to bed at 8:30 every day?

Bryan Johnson 9:24 That's right.

Steven Bartlett 9:25 People are... I feel like their s- their sleep is getting worse and worse in society-

Bryan Johnson 9:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 9:29 ... with, uh, stimulants that we consume, the way we live our lives, devices destroy sleep. Do you think sleep is th- really the foundation of daily performance? Would you, would you aim at that first if you were someone that was trying to start your journey to live a, a life more in line with your long-term goals?

Bryan Johnson 9:52 Sleep is the single most important thing any human does on any given day. And if you look at it from a cultural identity standpoint of people like you and me who work hard at an entrepreneurial endeavor, there's this mythology that if you sleep under your desk or you go days without sleep, you're a hero, that people will tell stories about you. It's like the old, like, I guess, Viking mythology where you, you have these stories told about your great deeds.

Steven Bartlett 10:21 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 10:22 And so it's almost like if you're a great entrepreneur and if you want to be respected by your peers and if you want to achieve mythology-like status, you do that sleep deprivation thing.

Steven Bartlett 10:33 Hmm.

Bryan Johnson 10:34 And so it's built so far into our cultural identity so when people... I know when my friends who... I act as a therapist for many people who go through this thing where they're... they don't realize why they actually can't prioritize sleep, and then when we dig deep, it's that they have these imaginations of the kind of person they want to become and how they want others to view them, and they feel trapped that if they don't complete the mythology lore that they'll somehow be less than and they won't achieve the ranking among the social group. And it's all backwards. The, the, the, the shift that's appropriate is... And it's happening actually right now is that the person who prioritizes sleep is going to be higher performing. They'll be more lucid. They'll be... They'll have better ideas. The people who don't sleep are literally half dead. They're actually intoxicated. They're impaired.

Steven Bartlett 11:31 Physiologically?

Bryan Johnson 11:32 Physiologically they're impaired.

Steven Bartlett 11:33 Explain that.

Bryan Johnson 11:34 When you are sleep-deprived, uh, to a certain degree, it is equal to being intoxicated by alcohol. You're inebriated. And so these are the people who are leading organizations, there are groups of, uh, large number of individuals that are expecting them to make high quality decisions on behalf of the entire group, and it's those very people who are not sleeping well and who are impaired in their judgment. It's backwards. And so, uh, this is... it's a, it's a good note to make, and this goes back to the first conversation of what am I not aware of?If you're playing the script of social norms, of doing what people say and you're not questioning them, then you're, you're living a, you're living in a pa- in the past of antiquated ideas that are hurtful to you. So here's one more example. I was at a conference the other day and the gentleman who was interviewing me said, "Hey, who here thinks that you can live forever?" And there were, like, two people were like... (laughs) "Who, who here thinks you're going to die?" And like everyone's hand shot up. And I was commenting to them that when, when you read history, who in a historical moment actually understood what was happening in that time and place? You know, 99% of people are living in the past. They repeat the things that people in the past had said. The future had already arrived. So if it's at the year 1634, the future already arrived in 1634. It's just the people there living during that timeframe don't know it. They hadn't seen it yet. They hadn't been exposed to it, or maybe they exposed to it, but they thought it was crazy or the person was a quack. And so you're always, people are always living in the past. And so the same is true right now. We are living in the past. The future is already here. The ideas and technologies are out there. Maybe you and I've seen them, maybe we can't. Maybe we encounter it, maybe we believe it, maybe we don't. But it's definitely here right now. And sleep is one of those things where the future is already here and people who are playing the mythology of no sleep, under the desk, and everything else, they're living in the past.

Steven Bartlett 13:45 Uh, I think that a lot of people listening who do struggle

Steven Bartlett 13:48 with sleep do believe in the importance of sleep. At least if you asked them, they'd say they did. But for whatever reason, you know, they might have sleep-related difficulties. They might have insomnia, they might just lay in bed all night and just feel anxious, whatever else. And it's those people that I, I want to offer some advice to.

Bryan Johnson 14:06 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 14:07 The people that, um, yeah, they, they work hard and stuff but they just struggle with sleep.

Bryan Johnson 14:12 Yeah. There's a difference between the acknowledgement that sleep may be good for you and that you say like, "Yeah, I'm on board with good sleep." It's an entirely different situation when you prioritize your life around that, which means if somebody's like, "Hey, let's grab a drink." "Sorry, can't. My bedtime's at blank." Or if you're, uh, if you find that you sleep better by having earlier meals and then you're at a social event, you're like, "Well, I'm gonna eat anyways." So it forces you to make really hard decisions on your actual lifestyle, which it does, it pits you against social norms which are uncomfortable. We want to fit in, we want to have friends, we want to be part of the tribe. So it, it does really invite... But the... Every person who makes the gesture, who does it, makes the tribe stronger. So when one person's brave enough to say, "Actually, I'm gonna hit the sack, guys." And like, "Oh man, you're s- you're such a wuss. Why are you doing that? Hang out, man. Like, what's wrong with you? What do you..." You know, like they, they jokingly try to belittle and pick. It's kind of serious and kind of not. But every time somebody does that and has the courage, there's several others in that group who are like, "Damn, now I feel empowered that I can say something." And that's the norm that's shifting. But this, it's the same social dynamics in whatever time you're in. It's just understanding that and not being owned by it.

Steven Bartlett 15:31 And then I guess the other, the other exception potentially is parents that don't have-

Bryan Johnson 15:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:37 ... um, childcare.

Bryan Johnson 15:39 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 15:39 'Cause, I mean, I've... Uh, when I speak to parents they always tell me, they're like, "Steve, listen, when you have a kid you can forget your no meetings before 11:00 AM-

Bryan Johnson 15:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:47 ... rule and your Whoop! HRV competition.

Bryan Johnson 15:49 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:49 Because when that baby cries at 3:00 AM, you know, and then at 4:00 AM and at 5:00 AM you're just gonna be dragged through the mud with them, so.

Bryan Johnson 15:57 Yeah. That's true. And having raised three kids, I can attest that that's true also. You can definitely establish a sleep culture in your family where you can make it understandable that once the child goes to sleep, at whatever age, the expectation is they're in their bedroom for that entire duration of time. Absent something, a fire or them feeling threatened for their life, if it's because they lost their play- their toy car under their bed or it's because they can't find their blankie, none of that justifies leaving the room and entering, you know, the parents' bedroom. So I... There's definitely things that can be done. You're not entirely powerless. And you can make meaningful improvements by setting the standard for the entire family. That starts with the parents, like what, what hygiene did they maintain and what did they pass on to children? But it's not entirely hopeless.

Steven Bartlett 16:45 Based on the way you live your life now, you must look at people and see a whole lot of excuses

Steven Bartlett 16:49 and a whole lack of responsibility everywhere you go. Every tweet you get, every comment you see. It must just, to you, reek of low responsibility 'cause you're someone that, as you said last time, has kind of given up control of yourself to this blueprint which really is the, uh, the essence of, um, discipline is completely surrendering to that.

Bryan Johnson 17:08 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 17:09 Do you think people are lacking in responsibility and full of excuses about their lives?

Bryan Johnson 17:15 (laughs) I mean, who of us are not that?

Steven Bartlett 17:19 Hmm.

Bryan Johnson 17:20 Or... And, like, any of us who would dare say otherwise are deceiving ourselves. And this is, again, self-awareness, is we all are self-deception machines. And anyone who doesn't believe that is self-deceiving.

Steven Bartlett 17:35 Do you still self-deceive?

Bryan Johnson 17:36 Absolutely.

Steven Bartlett 17:37 What are you still self-deceiving yourself on, do you suspect?

Bryan Johnson 17:40 I (laughs) ... I wouldn't trust myself in my own pantry with a bunch of junk food. That's why in my house I can ha- I... I've eliminated all self-harm. There's just nothing I can do 'cause I don't trust myself. So it's not like I, you know, I feel like I've created so much discipline and confidence that, like, put it in front of me and I won't do it. Even though I do on a daily basis when I'm in social situations, I don't put myself in that environment. But yeah, I mean, I... My goal is to find where I'm in error in thought and action constantly.That's the, that's the gem. That's the treasure chest, is finding out where you've missed.

Steven Bartlett 18:24 But you can know you've messed up somewhere. I think about areas of my life where I go, where I know what the right thing to do is, but for whatever reason, I keep not doing the right thing.

Bryan Johnson 18:31 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 18:32 And I keep getting the feedback.

Bryan Johnson 18:33 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:33 "Okay, you, you messed that up, Steve." And then, you know, a week passes and I might do the same thing again.

Bryan Johnson 18:39 The one game we all humans play, every human on the planet is playing, is don't die. Every second of every day, we're all trying not die, not to die, so we look both ways before we cross the street. We have carbon monoxide detectors. We don't seek out, we don't drink poison, you know, on purpose. Like, we, we d- do all these things to not die. Now, the weird thing though is I can look both ways before I cross the street and also be smoking a cigarette.

Steven Bartlett 19:05 Hmm.

Bryan Johnson 19:06 And that's just the nuances of the human mind. But what I wanted to do with Blueprint is I wanted to say, okay, if you really take do, uh, don't die to the absolute extreme, I'm going to measure every biological process in my body and find out where every cell is aging, like, where, basically where dying is happening. And then I'm going to identify all those behaviors, and I'm going to, going to try to eliminate every behavior that contributes to don't dying. So, what is possible in 2023 for the ultimate, uh, effort of don't die on every front? And that means no excuses ever for anything. So, a six-month sleep score, like, you basically have to say, "This is in stone. It's not gonna be changed under any circumstance, because I'm trying to prove a point of what could be done with the science in this moment."

Steven Bartlett 19:53 So, when you said about the cigarette example, you'll cross the road, you'll look both ways to make sure you don't get hit by a truck, but you'll be smoking.

Bryan Johnson 19:59 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 20:00 The way that I interpreted that is, okay, we don't want to die, and w- we all want to sign up to don't die, but none of us want to sign up to don't live.

Bryan Johnson 20:10 Yeah, with, with living, you're mapping that to, like, some sensorial pleasure. Like, you-

Steven Bartlett 20:17 Just some kind of p- yeah.

Bryan Johnson 20:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:19 Some kind of pleasure, whether it's having a couple of cocktails or-

Bryan Johnson 20:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:23 ... staying up late and watching Netflix or-

Bryan Johnson 20:25 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:25 ... whatever it might be.

Bryan Johnson 20:26 Yeah, yeah, and you're trying to find the things that create the stimuli that you, you care about. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 20:32 I think most people want to extend their life, but I, uh, I think they only want to extend it as long as they can live within that extension. And obviously, what you've chosen to do is to extend your life and make bigger sacrifices than the average Joe would be prepared to make.

Bryan Johnson 20:51 Yeah, the, the argument I'm making is, in any other time as a homo sapien, I completely understand that thought process. Do your thing. The difference right now is we're baby steps away from super intelligence, which means for the first time in the history of homo sapiens, we may not die. And so I'm arguing that only in this moment does it make sense to take these extreme measures, because before, you can easily say, "Look, I'm willing to trade 10 years of end life for this version of life now." Reasonable, understandable, sure. But in this moment, you may miss out on the most spectacular existence in all of history. So, why, why do that for some cheap thrill?

Steven Bartlett 21:38 What's that spectacular existence I might miss out on?

Bryan Johnson 21:41 Um, it's complicated. (laughs) Definitely complicated to be human. Uh, when you look at the capabilities of AI as it's emerging, there's reason to believe that we are acquiring the ability to engineer reality. We can physically engineer atoms, molecules, organisms. We can create experiences with, with, uh, certain chemicals. We can program physical... We can program visual, uh, d- digital realities. Like, we, we have our fingers on the ability to engineer and program the entirety of our reality increasingly. That opens up an expanse of opportunity that is so far beyond our imagination, we can't even begin to pretend like we understand.

Steven Bartlett 22:36 Okay, this is something I've never mentioned before. In 2023, I launched my very own private equity fund called Flight Fund, and since then, we've invested in some of the most promising companies in the world. My objective is to make this the best performing fund in Europe with a focus on high-grath companies that I believe will be the next European unicorns. The current investors in the fund who have joined me on this journey are some of Europe's most successful and innovative entrepreneurs, and I'm excited to announce that today, as a founder of a company, you can pitch your company to us. Or if you are an investor, you can also now apply to invest with us. Head to flightfund.com to gain an understanding of the fund's mission, the remarkable companies we proudly support, and to get in touch with me and my team. Legal disclaimer, Flight Fund is regulated by the FCA, so please remember that investing in the fund is for sophisticated investors only. Don't invest unless you're prepared to lose all of the money you invest. This is a high-risk investment, and you are unlikely to be protected if something goes wrong. There is no guarantee that the investment objectives will be achieved. And as with all private and equity investments, all of the investment capital is at risk. This communication is for information purposes only and should not be taken as investment advice or a financial promotion. What are the, um, concerns, though? If

Steven Bartlett 23:56 everybody gets older, isn't there gonna be, like, huge disparities in, like, wealth and stuff? Because I read some stats that the global share of wealth held by people over the age of 65 is increasing. In 2020, people aged 65 and older held 35% of global wealth. By 2050, they're projected to hold almost 50% of global wealth.

Bryan Johnson 24:17 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 24:17 Isn't it gonna be the case that if we're all living longer, you'd imagine, like, think about some of the richest people in the world now. They would just accrue more and more wealth. Older generations would have more wealth, and younger generations would-

Bryan Johnson 24:27 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 24:28 ... would have very little. There'd be this kind of disparity within society. The 250-year-olds will all be, like, billionaires-

Bryan Johnson 24:32 Mm-hmm.Yeah, that's just an engineering problem. It's a sci- it's, it's public policy.

Steven Bartlett 24:39 So, do you believe in like a universal basic income where we hand money to people?

Bryan Johnson 24:43 I mean, I don't think... It's not a reason to not want the future. It's not a reason to not want longevity. It's not a reason why we shouldn't extend lives. It's not a reason why somebody should be deprived. It's not like if you're wealthy and you're old, you should die. You know, it's like, it's everyone's got this opportunity for life, and if there's a, a very large disparity and it's getting worse, it's a public policy problem.

Steven Bartlett 25:01 Do you not think from like a philosophical standpoint that death is part of life? I... If you look at any sort of animal kingdom, death is part of the sort of natural attrition that creates new offspring, new mutations-

Bryan Johnson 25:13 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 25:13 ... new, um, energy, new ideas, I guess.

Bryan Johnson 25:17 It has been the system of intelligence that produced us.

Steven Bartlett 25:21 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 25:22 We have now taken the reins, and we are now the new system of intelligence that's creating life going forward.

Steven Bartlett 25:29 When did we take the reins?

Bryan Johnson 25:31 When we started learning how to engineer biology. When we, when we... This is what I spent the past 10 years doing, is my observation was after selling Braintree Venmo, it's amazing that we have been able to create the capability set in the digital world. You take a problem that can be solved by people sitting down at a computer and coding software, we can... As a species, we're extraordinarily good at it. Millions and millions of people that can do it and solve problems very quickly. If you take a problem in the physical world, like we say the coral reef is dying around the world, which is creating a major problem in these, in oceans. How do you make a coral reef that is more robust to heat or to big d- you know, variations? You need to have the same programmability of programming, of building a new coral reef that can do that sort of thing if that's a, an apro- an approach to the problem. We need to have those abilities. And so the goal I had was, we need this foundational technology so that any problem in the physical world, whether it be our health, the health of the oceans, anything, you know, building a global bo- uh, biological immune system, we need to have these physical abilities. And so once you have that, you can program physical reality, including, uh, conscious states, including earth health, including our health and wellness. All things become possibilities.

Steven Bartlett 26:49 Do you... Are you talking about Kernel?

Bryan Johnson 26:51 Uh, no, my... I had a venture fund.

Steven Bartlett 26:53 Okay.

Bryan Johnson 26:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 26:54 What is Kernel? What are you doing with Kernel?

Bryan Johnson 26:56 Kernel is a way for us to use science and data to build our best cognitive existence. So like, for example, it's easy for each of us to, to get on a scale and see our weight. And when we see weight is climbing very quickly, uh, you know, we think that's not a good situation because that leads to bad health outcomes, I don't feel great. And so there's like a, a... It's a good feedback mechanism for how well am I doing with my health, with my weight. We don't have the same equivalent for our brains. You can get an MRI or you can get a PET scan. They're great, but they're hard to get. They are expensive. Uh, it's very laborious to actually do it. We need to be able to acquire information about our brains as easy as it is to step on a scale and get our weight. And that's why we built a Kernel, is... It's a bike helmet, you put it on your head, and you find out important information about your brain.

Steven Bartlett 27:48 I had my brain scanned last week. Have you seen your brain?

Bryan Johnson 27:50 I have.

Steven Bartlett 27:51 Of course you've seen your brain.

Bryan Johnson 27:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 27:52 Did you find out anything about your brain?

Bryan Johnson 27:55 Uh, I did. Well, I wanted to demonstrate that you could ask a question, what happens when... And then take a given thing about the brain, like what happens when I do a psychedelic? What happens when I play a game? What happens when I don't sleep well? What happens when... And all the things we do that affects our brain. And in this case, I was a pilot participant for ketamine. So we ran a 15-person ketamine study. Ketamine is a anesthetic, also used to tranquilize horses, also a party drug. And so I received a dose of intra- of ketamine in my arm, and then I was in that experience for 45 minutes. And what we saw was interesting in that I had my brain measured for 10 minutes a day for five days before, during the ketamine experience, and then fi- then, uh, 14 days afterwards. And I think that was... The most interesting thing is my brain patterns... Like, if you think about the patterns, like imagine you're looking at planet Earth and there's airports all over the Earth, and you're seeing traffic patterns between each airport. So between Tokyo and New York, there's a lot of traffic. London and New York, a lot of traffic. But between, you know, smaller cities, you have just a few planes here and there. There's big traffic patterns in our brains of where activity is happening, and those patterns tell you things about yourself, like sounds like you had some analysis done. And when I did keta- when I did the five days of measurement, my patterns in my brain were stable. Every single day, they were the same, the same traffic from the same place to and from. And then when I did ketamine, it scrambled all of my patterns. It's like you took the globe and you just like remapped where all the airports were and like, okay, planes start flying. And then over... On day, day three, four, my pattern started forming again back in a similar way. And so there was that two to... like one to three-day therapeutic window where I was very open to new pattern creation. And it was... There's this joke among my colleagues where we were walking from one meeting to another, and there was a wall that was in front of us, and I... It was day two after I took ketamine, and I thought, "I'm going to jump over the wall." Like that seemed like a fun idea. Why not? So I just spontaneously jumped over the wall. And then all my colleagues were like, "What are you doing?" (laughs) "We're in a work environment. We don't jump over walls." And I hadn't thought about it in that frame, but I wonder if in that moment, I was open to doing something different and unique that I normally wouldn't have done because I had this opening. But it was cool to see my patterns, where they were, how they changed, and how they reformed in some kind of window that opened up as how I could remap my own experience.

Steven Bartlett 30:20 I mean, that's probably a pretty compelling case for psychedelics as it relates to mental health.

Bryan Johnson 30:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:24 And, you know, if we think of me- some mental health disorders as being stuck in patterns, patterns of thinking, patterns of belief, patterns of behavior, um, there's been quite incredible clinical studies done to show the impact that something like psilocybin-

Bryan Johnson 30:39 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 30:40 ... or ibogaine can have on addiction or depression.What's your view on psychedelics?

Bryan Johnson 30:46 They're powerful. Yeah, and I hope that Kernel accelerates their progress because most of the- the measurements are done through questionnaires. You're asking the person how they felt, how they felt and their p- perspective, but we know that our subjective experiences are not terribly reliable. Like, when I- after I had ketamine, if I were to use words to explain what I experienced, I don't know. If I'm asked on day three how I felt on day one, it's hard to remember. Now, you can journal or try to make, uh, more detailed notes, but it's really hard to subjectively account for your brain. And so having a- a- a system that tracks the data removes some of that challenge and it could help usher in, uh, psychedelics for a much broader adoption much faster 'cause you've got data to support what you're trying to demonstrate.

Steven Bartlett 31:36 Have you tried all the psychedelics?

Bryan Johnson 31:38 (laughs) Um...

Steven Bartlett 31:42 Ayahuasca?

Bryan Johnson 31:44 I've had some experiences.

Steven Bartlett 31:46 Mushrooms? I've done mushrooms.

Bryan Johnson 31:50 What'd you think?

Steven Bartlett 31:51 Really interesting experience.

Bryan Johnson 31:53 Did it- did it change your- your opinion or your perspective of your own mind?

Steven Bartlett 32:03 Yes. Yes. Um, I was overseas, I think I was in Peru or something, and I was at a mushroom ceremony, whatever, and I'd taken the treatment that the shaman or whatever had given me. And I didn't think it was working, so I went over and sat down on my laptop (laughs)

Bryan Johnson 32:21 (laughs) Yeah, oh no.

Steven Bartlett 32:22 Really fucking bad idea.

Bryan Johnson 32:23 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:23 And I... For whatever reason, and this is so un-me, I clicked on, like, Netflix because everyone was over there and they were all having their experience. I thought, "I'll just- I'll just watch something on Netflix." And I don't watch, I didn't even watch Netflix. I clicked something on Netflix and as I'm watching it, it's like some, I don't know, some reality TV thing. And it just becomes really apparent to me that these people's values that I'm watching are, like, really bad. They're all, like, bitching about each other and they're all being mean to each other. And at that very moment, the world started to just spin and shake and I put the laptop away and went and joined the gang, wrote about 35 notes of, um, of handwriting, again, I never write with my hands- Mm.

Bryan Johnson 33:00 ... about connection.

Steven Bartlett 33:01 Mm.

Bryan Johnson 33:01 And in that moment, I learnt that, like, my perception of reality is so fragile.

Steven Bartlett 33:04 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 33:05 And so what- what do I believe?

Steven Bartlett 33:07 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 33:07 You know? If- if this experience that I'm having with you now, this perception of reality is that fragile, that one little capsule a day can just shake it all, then Jesus is so... I can't trust much, can I? I love that so much.

Steven Bartlett 33:26 Mm.

Bryan Johnson 33:26 That's so beautiful. Like, what do we really know about anything? And, uh, like you said, like, this one little plant and you eat it, you ingest it and then somehow your reality is absolutely transformed into something that you never imagined was possible.

Steven Bartlett 33:47 But then you come right back.

Bryan Johnson 33:49 You do, and this is also, this is the- the frame around, like, don't die. So I understand before our time and place right now, like in the 19th century, sure, do your thing 'cause you're gonna die and that's fine. But right now, I guess with- with your cu- your mushroom experience, do you feel open to the idea that we may acquire new capabilities of conscious experience creation that could make your reality more interesting and more worthwhile, like whatever, than anything you could ever imagine?

Steven Bartlett 34:26 Yes, but also could not-

Bryan Johnson 34:27 Sure.

Steven Bartlett 34:28 ... because I just don't know. So again, it goes back to, like, it's hard for people to bet on uncertainty in their lives.

Bryan Johnson 34:35 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 34:35 You know, people don't... Who wants to bet on "I don't know"?

Bryan Johnson 34:39 Interesting. Are you basically impartial?

Steven Bartlett 34:43 I'm kind of good with what life's like now. I think life's quite cool now.

Bryan Johnson 34:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:47 I think- I think- I still feel like I'm bending reality by the way that I, like, live my life-

Bryan Johnson 34:52 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:52 ... and the things I've achieved and I still feel like I've got more mountains to climb in my life-

Bryan Johnson 34:57 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 34:57 ... and higher peaks to see. So m- you see what I'm saying?

Bryan Johnson 35:02 Uh, yeah, so it- it's not really about a- a dissatisfaction so much now as the driver. It's that the possibilities are a motivator, that you, if you say, um, it's just the possibility, some- something you've not experienced, a- a new reality you could experience, like some... We're walking into the cradle of superintelligence.

Steven Bartlett 35:26 Okay, so let's define superintelligence just in case that someone's lost us along the way.

Bryan Johnson 35:29 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 35:30 When you say superintelligence, you're talking about, like, artificial intelligence and computers that are-

Bryan Johnson 35:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 35:36 ... you know, infinitely more intelligent than we are and how we can interface with that intelligence to bring, make our lives and our decisions and our capabilities better?

Bryan Johnson 35:44 That's right. Like, uh, computational intelligence on near-future timelines are going to be far superior to our form of intelligence. Now, like, how and when and what forms, no one knows. But if you look at th- the trajectory of the speed, it's fast. It's- it's faster than our minds can comprehend. And so if we, whatever comparison you want to make, like whether, you know, an ant relative to us or, uh, whatever the version is, or Homo erectus to us, I don't, we- we don't know those details on what their experience is. But if- if you just try to un- like, think about the scale of intelligence and what that experience may be like, even though we don't know, but you know, it's interesting, your- your response is, uh, informative for me. I have a bias, and this goes back to my blindness, I think this idea of walking into the cradle of artificial superintelligence and the ability to engineer all of reality is the coolest opportunity.... maybe in the known galaxy.

Steven Bartlett 36:49 What's the most compelling argument you've heard

Steven Bartlett 36:52 against your do not die position? The one that troubles you the most.

Bryan Johnson 36:57 (laughs) I'm entirely unconvinced by any argument that I've ever heard about it.

Steven Bartlett 37:05 Are you entirely convinced by the do not die argument?

Bryan Johnson 37:09 I'm convinced that, through the thought experiment I did, if I, if I try to transport myself to the 25th century, and of course, they have a sober- a, a detached, cold soberness, objective soberness looking back at the 21st century that we don't. Just like we look back at a history and we can see with clarity what... We're so caught up in this moment, we're blinded by so many of these realities. And they would look back, I'm, I'm convinced by my thought experiment that they'd look back and be like, "Of course. In the early 21st century, homo sapiens figured out that they had developed the technology to continually expand their life, and that..." So it's the, like, the homo, homo sapien culture shifted to the preservation of life. Whereas right now, we're all on the death track, and then we play all the fun games along the death track, but it's, we just, we have to shift the entire zeitgeist where we, we do the exact opposite of what we're doing today. In term, instead of embracing and celebrating death rituals, we move entirely to ex- life extension rituals.

Steven Bartlett 38:14 Do you think li- living forever is possible? Or even reverse reversing age?

Bryan Johnson 38:18 Yeah. I mean, I, so like, basically with all the arguments, I come down to this idea, uh, this is akin to us, to us interviewing homo erectus a million years ago, and asking homo erectus to make observations on what it's going to be like to be homo sapiens a million years later. Have our kind of cognition, have our technology. Homo erectus would have nothing, like almost nothing useful to say. Do we care what they want or don't want, what they're scared of? Do we value it in any way? Like, it's interesting from just an observational perspective, but do we really think that homo erectus has wisdom of some sort that would allow us to, um, yeah, to step into this existence? And that's where I think that we're at now is like we're basically... We're sufficiently primitive in our thought. I don't believe in anything we say as it relates to the, to the future. Because the intelligence we're walking into is so far superior to ours, why would we even begin to imagine that we can express an opinion that is meaningful?

Steven Bartlett 39:32 Do you see it almost like we're walking into a different species of human?

Bryan Johnson 39:35 Entirely. I mean, unquestionably that's happening.

Steven Bartlett 39:39 One of the really interesting things that's going on is this thing called CRISPR.

Bryan Johnson 39:42 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:43 Genetic engineering. What is, what is that? CRISPR genetic engineering? I know you did, um, you did some kind of DNA therapy, didn't you?

Bryan Johnson 39:53 I did, I did my first gene therapy.

Steven Bartlett 39:55 Gene therapy, yeah.

Bryan Johnson 39:55 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 39:56 What is, what is all of that, and what's the promise that it holds for us? CRISPR genetic engineering and what was your gene therapy?

Bryan Johnson 40:02 Yeah, currently there's a ceiling on human lifespan, you know, like 120 or so, that if, if you, if you, uh, live a life a certain way and you're given a genetic lottery, then you can do that. But to punch through 120 is very difficult through lifestyle and diet and exercise. And so to, to really punch through the ceiling, you need to start working at the genetic level. And so whether you're doing, uh, there's, uh, gene therapy, whether you're doing CRISPR, there's a variety of ways you can start modifying, uh, your genetic code. And this has the power or potential to punch through the ceiling.

Steven Bartlett 40:39 So explain that to an idiot. Gene therapy is injecting genes into you? Someone else's genes? Genes that have been made in a laboratory?

Bryan Johnson 40:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:48 Or...

Bryan Johnson 40:49 Yeah, so this one is, I just got two injections on either side in my obliques here, and, uh, what it does is it expresses the protein, uh, follistatin. And so basically, I, before I have a certain level, uh, like, like eight or nine, and once you get the therapy, you're higher, like 20s, 30s, 40s. And so it's just increasing, it's increasing the amount of, uh, follistatin in my body. And so like one way to understand this is when you work out, myostatin, um, lessens the amount of muscle growth that can happen. Follistatin suppresses myostatin so you have more muscle mass. But it has a whole bunch of other effects as well. This gene therapy didn't change my actual genes, it just increases the expression of follistatin in my body.

Steven Bartlett 41:37 And how do you know if it works?

Bryan Johnson 41:39 Uh, measure them. So yeah, I do routine... Well, so there's a few things we're doing. Uh, we're measuring this via my blood, what are my follistatin levels before and after, and then we're also measuring my body with MRI. And so because I'm the most measured person in history, we have this interesting vantage point where we can see across my entire body, from my muscle and my, um, my fat and bone and speed and DNA methylation patterns from my speed of aging, to my brain health, like working at hundreds and hundred data points to see what effect it has.

Steven Bartlett 42:10 And have you found an effect yet?

Bryan Johnson 42:12 Uh, our first results are coming back next week.

Steven Bartlett 42:15 Someone like me who is, you know, on the high street per se,

Steven Bartlett 42:18 what are the supplements that are on the high street that, that do actually work for anti-aging? 'Cause people talk about NAD+ and stuff and they-

Bryan Johnson 42:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:27 There's all these clinics now popping up all over London where you can sit in the chair for two hours-

Bryan Johnson 42:30 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:30 ... and have the little drip in your arm and stuff.

Bryan Johnson 42:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:32 And I did it once-

Bryan Johnson 42:33 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:33 ... um, 'cause my friend had opened a, a place, and I, I had a very hot chest.

Bryan Johnson 42:37 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:38 Like a burning feeling in my chest. I don't know if it's done anything for me. So I've just got to, it goes back to what I said earlier, you just got to kind of believe in it or not like a religion.

Bryan Johnson 42:46 (laughs) Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's best to measure it. So you're, you're trying to change your intracellular NAD.

Steven Bartlett 42:54 I'm sure other people have done- measured it, though. So does it work?

Bryan Johnson 42:57 Uh, the- the drips don't.

Steven Bartlett 42:59 The drips don't work?

Bryan Johnson 43:00 That you- you want sustained levels of NAD. And so, we... Yeah, so I mean, we extensively measure my NAD levels, and we've tested NMN, we've tested NR, we've looked at all the different modalities. You want sustained levels. So my levels when I first started, I think they were, uh, equivalent of something like 47 years of age, and now they're reliably age 18. Like I have that much- I have age 18 levels of NAD, intracellular NAD. And we dialed that dosage in because I was able to measure it. And the- the challenge, of course, is when you do these things haphazardly, get a drip or whatever, it's- it's what you're saying, it's a story. It's a market- it's clever marketing. It's happy faces. It's what your friends are doing. But it's not based on any reality. You need to see it working in your body. Otherwise, you know, be careful, I mean, when- when you're doing it.

Steven Bartlett 43:51 So, the only reason it doesn't work is because it's not sustained? But it would work if it was sustained. So if I did that every week, then it would work?

Bryan Johnson 44:00 Uh, you also have to consider the half-life.

Steven Bartlett 44:02 Okay.

Bryan Johnson 44:02 So I- I don't know all the data on the drips. I know the data much better on NMN and NR. But-

Steven Bartlett 44:07 But those things then, you- you take them orally?

Bryan Johnson 44:09 Yeah, orally every day. Twice a day, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:10 Twice a day. And those things work?

Bryan Johnson 44:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:13 Sure.

Bryan Johnson 44:13 They reliably maintain my NAD, my ICNAD levels, uh, at a 18-year-old level.

Steven Bartlett 44:21 What are some of these big, um, anti-aging therapies, or businesses, or supplements that most people have just thrown themselves into-

Bryan Johnson 44:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:32 ... or habits, in terms of longevity habits-

Bryan Johnson 44:34 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:34 ... that are just a load of BS?

Bryan Johnson 44:36 (laughs) I mean, most everything.

Steven Bartlett 44:40 Really?

Bryan Johnson 44:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:43 Give me some examples.

Bryan Johnson 44:44 We... I mean, everything listed on the- the Blueprint website is three years of our effort to try to figure out what has scientific evidence, what can we do in me and measure it, and then communicate that out.

Steven Bartlett 44:58 Yeah, 'cause I- I want to make sure I avoid false advertising.

Bryan Johnson 45:01 That's right.

Steven Bartlett 45:02 I got suckered down to do that bloody NAD drip thinking I was going to be an 18-year-old.

Bryan Johnson 45:05 That's right. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:05 So I don't want to do that again.

Bryan Johnson 45:06 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 45:07 What do I need to avoid?

Bryan Johnson 45:08 I mean, for example, one thing that works is extra virgin olive oil.

Steven Bartlett 45:11 Ah. Well, ha, here's one I brought with me earlier. (laughs)

Bryan Johnson 45:15 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:16 Yeah. So you sent me this. Um-

Bryan Johnson 45:17 I did. I sent you that.

Steven Bartlett 45:19 In the post.

Bryan Johnson 45:20 Yeah. And so we- we tried to ...

Steven Bartlett 45:23 For anybody that can't see, I've got a- a black bottle of extra virgin olive oil that Bryan had sent me about a month ago, and it says on the front, "Blueprint Bryan Johnson Ultra Premium Extra Virgin Olive Oil." Completely all black bottle. It looks like a wine bottle. Oh, on the back of it, it says, "With the goal of slowing his speed of aging, Bryan Johnson allocates 15% of his precise daily char- calorific budget to this extra virgin olive oil. It is rich in polyphenols, which studies show can potentially safeguard against various cancers, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, and neurodegenerative conditions by providing better reduction of oxidized LDL than regular EVOO." Extra virgin olive oil. Interesting.

Bryan Johnson 46:10 So that's the question, you know, if you... What things can I do in my life that are easy and actionable and have a high impact? Extra virgin olive oil is very close to number one.

Steven Bartlett 46:20 Really?

Bryan Johnson 46:20 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:21 Why? 'Cause of all the things it says on the back?

Bryan Johnson 46:24 Yeah. (laughs) When you ... There you go.

Steven Bartlett 46:27 That is not how you're meant to have that. It's spicy.

Bryan Johnson 46:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 46:32 You put some pepper in there.

Bryan Johnson 46:34 It- that's what premium olive oil tastes like.

Steven Bartlett 46:38 It's- it's- it's good oil. It's good oli- uh, virgin olive oil, but nobody should... It's not nice to drink extra... Oh, it feels quite... Hmm.

Bryan Johnson 46:47 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 46:48 It's- it's very, um, it's quite thick and smooth.

Bryan Johnson 46:50 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 46:52 Interesting.

Bryan Johnson 46:52 Yeah. Peppery and smooth. If you look at the evidence we- we just shared about what this does, it's unbelievable, uh, in the ways it improves health and wellness. It's better than Ozempic.

Steven Bartlett 47:06 Really?

Bryan Johnson 47:07 It is.

Steven Bartlett 47:08 Okay. So explain what Exem- Ozempic is, because that's the diabetes drug that people are using to lose weight.

Bryan Johnson 47:13 Yeah. So I mean, it's like Ozempic is like the fire alarm. And so, for example, there's a study where people lost 5.2 pounds, uh, taking EVOO, consuming EVOO, for nine weeks.

Steven Bartlett 47:29 In addition to what they're currently eating?

Bryan Johnson 47:31 Yeah. Yep.

Steven Bartlett 47:33 And h- when you say taking, what do you mean? Just sprinkling on top of my food, or?

Bryan Johnson 47:36 Yeah. The- the- I think the quantity for that study was, I think, uh, 45 ML daily or s- or something like that. It's between 45 and s- uh, between 30 and 60 MLs daily. But, uh, there's things, for example, like it- it, uh, reduces by over 60%, uh, invasive breast cancer. It reduces your- your, uh, blood sugar levels by 60% post-a-meal, and your oxidized LDL levels, these are the- this is the bad thing in your body that's causing damage, by 80% post-a-meal. So I have a tablespoon with every single meal, and it's... Yeah, it's- it's like the super of superfoods. And the problem is most of the olive oil in the world does not meet the quality thresholds to make it useful. So you think you're consuming olive oil that's actually doing the b- uh, having the health benefits. If it doesn't meet very specific criteria, it won't do it for you.

Steven Bartlett 48:29 So where do we get it?

Bryan Johnson 48:30 This is why I've tried to... This is why I solved it, because like we... Basically, trying to find a olive oil that you can verify meets the specs is very challenging. So we- we built a supply chain across both hemispheres to acquire the best olive oil in the world to make it just easy. You can trust it. The data is shared, and the health benefits are, um, supported by evidence. And-

Steven Bartlett 48:55 And this is available online?

Bryan Johnson 48:56 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 48:56 Everyone can buy this?

Bryan Johnson 48:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 48:59 It's exciting.

Bryan Johnson 49:01 But that's an easy one to do, go to bed on time and drink your olive oil.

Steven Bartlett 49:04 You've got something down there on the floor-

Bryan Johnson 49:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 49:05 ... but you wouldn't tell me what it was.

Steven Bartlett 49:07 What is it?

Bryan Johnson 49:07 Yeah, I brought you two things today.

Steven Bartlett 49:09 Okay.

Bryan Johnson 49:11 One, I, I brought you a test.

Steven Bartlett 49:13 Okay, what is it?

Bryan Johnson 49:14 This test.

Steven Bartlett 49:15 Okay, that's the test.

Bryan Johnson 49:16 It's your speed of aging test.

Steven Bartlett 49:17 Oh, shit.

Bryan Johnson 49:18 So you should (laughs) everybody should know three things, you know, how much you weigh, how fast you're aging-

Steven Bartlett 49:25 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 49:28 ... and the duration of your nighttime erections.

Steven Bartlett 49:31 (laughs) Is that what the other thing is?

Bryan Johnson 49:32 That's the other device.

Steven Bartlett 49:33 Oh, shit.

Bryan Johnson 49:34 So we're-

Steven Bartlett 49:35 The duration?

Bryan Johnson 49:35 Basically, yeah. So both these are going to give you a good baseline with where you're at in life.

Steven Bartlett 49:43 So how do I, how do I do, how do I do this? Is this-

Bryan Johnson 49:46 I can, I can adminis- oh, wait, yeah. I can administer that test for you if you want. So I, what it requires is we'll prick your finger.

Steven Bartlett 49:54 Yeah.

Bryan Johnson 49:55 Get a little blood.

Steven Bartlett 49:56 Yeah.

Bryan Johnson 49:57 Put it on the card-

Steven Bartlett 49:59 Yeah.

Bryan Johnson 49:59 ... and then we'll send it to the processing, to the, to, to the, um, the center where they're gonna process it and you'll get your results back. And it will tell you how fast your aging clock is internally.

Steven Bartlett 50:12 How does it know that from a prick of blood?

Bryan Johnson 50:14 Uh, because your body leaves chemical signatures that reveal the data.

Steven Bartlett 50:20 Okay, and then I can reverse that presumably?

Bryan Johnson 50:23 Yes, you-

Steven Bartlett 50:23 But-

Bryan Johnson 50:24 Yes, exactly. So if you, let's say you get a result back, and let's just say it's one, so you're aging like a normal person would, average person. You could potentially slow your speed of aging to .6, which means while all of your friends are aging at a normal rate, you would get September, October, November, and December for free.

Steven Bartlett 50:45 I'd love that.

Bryan Johnson 50:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:47 How?

Bryan Johnson 50:50 Olive oil, good sleep, exercise, a good diet, don't smoke.

Steven Bartlett 50:53 It's the basic stuff, the stuff-

Bryan Johnson 50:54 Basic stuff.

Steven Bartlett 50:56 And what is this other contraption that you've

Narrator 50:57 me?

Bryan Johnson 50:57 That is how you can measure your nighttime erections. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:03 (laughs) I mean, where am I gonna put that?

Bryan Johnson 51:05 Yeah, so you, you put it on your shaft and just gently, ah, there you go, gently pull out. And so you put ... there you go. Put it on the mic.

Steven Bartlett 51:17 Yeah.

Bryan Johnson 51:18 There you go.

Steven Bartlett 51:18 Mine's a little bit bigger. I need to ... have you got a-

Bryan Johnson 51:20 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:21 ... have a bigger one?

Bryan Johnson 51:23 Yep, and then you put it on the, on the base.

Steven Bartlett 51:27 Yeah.

Bryan Johnson 51:27 And you put it on, and you th- you think, you presume that it's gonna be an irritation. It's gonna bother you. You're gonna feel it. Once you put it on and you go to sleep, you can't feel it. You don't know-

Steven Bartlett 51:37 What is it, do you, like, vibrate in the night or something? (laughs)

Bryan Johnson 51:38 So, yeah. (laughs) No, there's no vibration. But-

Steven Bartlett 51:41 Mm.

Bryan Johnson 51:42 ... you, you have erections throughout the night.

Steven Bartlett 51:45 Yeah.

Bryan Johnson 51:45 And when you become erect, uh, the expansion of your penis will be captured by that device and it will show how many erections you had and for what duration and what strength. And-

Steven Bartlett 52:00 I, I've got you. So you put your, you put your, you go to sleep, you put your penis inside it like, like that, and then when you have an erection during the night, it'll expand and log it.

Bryan Johnson 52:12 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 52:12 And it'll keep logging every time you have an erection in the night.

Bryan Johnson 52:15 That's right, and then it will tell you, "You had four erections tonight e- that d- that duration of sleep. They were 47 minutes, 31 minutes, 55 minutes," and whatever, "and of this streng- this quality of erection type." And then this data, it, it's really important because it represents psychological health, sexual health, uh, cardiovascular health. It is basically people are not familiar w- yeah, you can go to the gym and build big biceps or whatever, but people are not familiar that nighttime erections are actually a meaningful health indicator.

Steven Bartlett 52:43 And so you've been mea- measuring your nighttime erections?

Bryan Johnson 52:45 I have.

Steven Bartlett 52:46 And what have you found out and how have you been able to improve it?

Bryan Johnson 52:48 Yeah, my, my average right now is two hours and 12 minutes.

Steven Bartlett 52:52 So you're erect at night for two hours and 12 minutes?

Bryan Johnson 52:54 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 52:56 W- what-

Bryan Johnson 52:57 It, uh-

Steven Bartlett 52:57 ... are you dreaming about?

Bryan Johnson 52:58 (laughs) For, so the thing is, we're not aware of our erections most the time. And so, uh, by my current erection amount is equal to roughly my chronological age. For me to be equal to an 18-year-old, I would need three hours and 30 minutes-

Steven Bartlett 53:15 Interesting.

Bryan Johnson 53:16 ... of nighttime erections, so that's the goal we're trying to achieve is, is we're basically, I mean, no one's ever done this before. We're trying to figure out can you improve nighttime erection?

Steven Bartlett 53:25 Do you put this on your penis every night?

Bryan Johnson 53:27 No. Just in, I'll do it three to five days in a row.

Steven Bartlett 53:32 So most, most nights of the week you'll put this on your penis?

Bryan Johnson 53:36 I'm sorry. So I'll do, for example, in like-

Steven Bartlett 53:38 Oh, okay, like, say one month.

Bryan Johnson 53:39 ... you know, m-

Steven Bartlett 53:40 Okay, okay, a month.

Bryan Johnson 53:40 Yeah, in like, in like a month-

Steven Bartlett 53:40 Okay.

Bryan Johnson 53:40 ... or two months-

Steven Bartlett 53:41 Okay. N-

Bryan Johnson 53:41 ... I'll do like three to five, and it depends on what therapies we're doing. And so I, what I couple up with that is, uh, we're trying to ... (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:50 Come on, Brian. Grow up.

Bryan Johnson 53:53 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 53:54 (laughs) I'm just playing with it. It's just interesting.

Bryan Johnson 53:56 Yeah, uh, I couple this up with shock w- uh, focused shockwave therapy. And so there's this technology, you have a wand, and you sit in a chair, and then the, the technician uses the wand and basically shocks your penis through, through the acoustic technology. And it's like, it does the same thing as workouts do in where you're creating micro-injuries so then it rebuilds. And so this technology is used for, uh, all over the entire body. If you're trying to heal, uh, an ACL or you're trying to rejuvenate the knees, uh, the joints, shoulders, so it's a technology that has a broad range of applications. It's also used for erectile dysfunction. So while my scores are, I have no sexual dysfunction, I'm, I score perfect in every category, we're wondering if you take this therapy, this focused shockwave therapy, and if it will just basically rejuvenate the penis and increase nighttime erections.

Steven Bartlett 54:55 Is there any early evidence that that's working?

Bryan Johnson 54:57 Uh, yes. I've been shocked.... by the results. I'm now two months in. It's, (laughs) and my subjective experience is it's, it's as if my penis has gotten, like, 15 years younger. So, we're, we're still in the early stages. We still need to measure, we need data before we're gonna believe anything subjectively.

Steven Bartlett 55:22 I'm in.

Bryan Johnson 55:24 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 55:24 When you say, when you say a shock, do you, do, do you mean a painful shock or is it like a, you know, like a, the kind of shock you, you pay for?

Bryan Johnson 55:31 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 55:32 (laughs) Like a, like a pleasant-

Bryan Johnson 55:33 Tell me more. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 55:34 Is it like a nice feeling? Is it like a vibration or is it like a zz.

Bryan Johnson 55:37 Uh...

Steven Bartlett 55:38 Is it painful?

Bryan Johnson 55:39 It's painful, yeah. You-

Steven Bartlett 55:40 Oh, gosh.

Bryan Johnson 55:40 You need to be focused. Uh, like, you need to do pain management. Yeah, it's some-

Steven Bartlett 55:44 Interesting.

Bryan Johnson 55:44 ... it's unplea- it's, uh, it's, like, a, maybe a 7 out of 10, but then once you get to the tip, it's like-

Steven Bartlett 55:52 Oh, no. They've got to shock the whole thing.

Bryan Johnson 55:54 Yeah, it's like a 9 out of 10 'cause, see, you, for the tip you have improved sensitivity, so it, it generates, in addition to what we're trying to do with nighttime erections, it also improves, um, erection strength and orgasm pleasurability. So it has all kinds of benefits.

Steven Bartlett 56:09 I'm trying to figure out physiologically what's going on there. So you shock the penis. You give a big electric shock to the penis, and then it rebuilds like a muscle would.

Bryan Johnson 56:18 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 56:19 And, and that causes it to be more effective going forward.

Bryan Johnson 56:23 Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a, uh, yeah, acoustic technology, so it's not like an electrical shock.

Steven Bartlett 56:28 I, this kind of brings, I guess this brings me in part to the thing you use on your abs, the 20K-

Bryan Johnson 56:34 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:34 ... sit-up machine thing.

Bryan Johnson 56:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:36 I, I, when I was younger, in my house, I think my mum bought it in a catalog, she had one of those machines that she put on her abdomen and it gave her an electric shock.

Bryan Johnson 56:43 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 56:44 Like, uh, and it, like, kind of vibrated, and I just always thought it was BS.

Bryan Johnson 56:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:48 I thought the whole industry was just BS. People feel like it's doing something so they think they're gonna get abs. But you've got, like, a really extensive, impressive machine that does a similar thing.

Bryan Johnson 56:57 Mm-hmm. Yeah, using electromagnetic rate, uh, frequency, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:00 And it works?

Bryan Johnson 57:01 It does.

Steven Bartlett 57:02 How do you know?

Bryan Johnson 57:03 Uh, we've looked at it with MRI.

Steven Bartlett 57:05 And the muscles are being, like, broken down and regenerated from the electric shock?

Bryan Johnson 57:09 Yeah. Yeah, we've increased-

Steven Bartlett 57:11 Feels like cheating.

Bryan Johnson 57:12 Um...

Steven Bartlett 57:14 So y- y- you've got, have you got a six-pack?

Bryan Johnson 57:17 I suppose it's defined to some extent.

Steven Bartlett 57:21 You're gonna have to show us.

Bryan Johnson 57:22 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:23 With your permission, of course-

Bryan Johnson 57:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:24 ... because we don't force people to undress on this show.

Bryan Johnson 57:26 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Like...

Steven Bartlett 57:32 Yeah, you've gotten... Yeah. Yeah. I won't show mine. Not right now. I've been in there, like, for months.

Bryan Johnson 57:36 Oh, wait, I, I showed you mine.

Steven Bartlett 57:37 Yeah, but it's, it's-

Bryan Johnson 57:39 I, I know. It's fine.

Steven Bartlett 57:40 You, you've been doing this for three years.

Bryan Johnson 57:41 It's fine, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:42 I'm new. I've, I'm gonna work my way up with the penis shock thing, and then I'll get some abs.

Bryan Johnson 57:45 But, but can you, can you imagine being in a conversation and everyone else knows their erection, their nighttime erections, and you don't? Like, can you imagine the embarrassment you'd feel?

Steven Bartlett 57:58 No.

Bryan Johnson 57:58 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:58 I can't imagine. No one I know knows how long their erect for at most.

Bryan Johnson 58:03 I know. I'm playing. (laughs) I'm playing. I'm playing-

Steven Bartlett 58:05 (laughs)

Bryan Johnson 58:05 ... I g- I'm playing because it's like, it's, of course it's a novel idea. Nobody measures their erection, so it's not part of a social norm, but you can imagine the humor of you finding someone having a cau- a casual conversation of like, "Yeah, like, I had a really great night's sleep last night. New peak record on erection duration and, and erection..." (laughs) like...

Steven Bartlett 58:23 You know, it's gonna become a thing. I know it is.

Bryan Johnson 58:24 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 58:24 Because sexual health and sexlessness in relationships-

Bryan Johnson 58:27 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:27 ... and libido are actually a really big topic at the moment for a lot of people. Like, I've been in relationships where there's been libido issues and things like that, and I've got friends that have-

Bryan Johnson 58:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:36 ... got libido issues and sexual health issues and things like that. So it, it, we, we joke about it, but there, it's not a joke for a lot of people.

Bryan Johnson 58:43 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:43 And it can lead to relationships breaking down and families breaking down.

Bryan Johnson 58:47 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:47 And so I, I don't, I do think it's a serious topic, and if it, this therapy can help people get their erections back and bring their sex life back, then that's an amazing thing.

Bryan Johnson 58:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:59 Um-

Bryan Johnson 58:59 The, yeah, the testimonials of the technology are pretty compelling. Uh, people with ED that it's made, it's causing a significant problem with their own self-confidence of their partners. It's a big deal. Like, when, when you can't get erect, it's a very big problem.

Steven Bartlett 59:16 Your penis is 15 years younger, you believe?

Bryan Johnson 59:18 I mean, this is a, a subjective assessment. It's just like, you know, um, as you age, your body becomes less firm and more saggy, right? Across muscle, skin, penis. Like, you just lose structure across your entire body, and it's improved the structure of my penis.

Steven Bartlett 59:40 Your hair looks like it's changed as well since we last spoke.

Bryan Johnson 59:43 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 59:43 You look like you've got a fuller head of hair.

Bryan Johnson 59:44 Mm.

Steven Bartlett 59:46 What's, what's been going on there?

Bryan Johnson 59:48 The, the protocol I have is I do, uh, platelet-rich plasma every 30 to 60 days. So that requi- that is the process where you draw blood from a vein, you spin it up, and you separate the blood from the plasma, and you take the plasma and then we add ACell and dutasteride. So it's a concoction of plasma, ACell, dutasteride, and it's a total volume of between 13, 15 milliliters, and then it's injected across the entire head, uh, in the areas that would be balding. And then I also do red light therapy daily, which we spoke about-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:26 Mm.

Bryan Johnson 1:00:27 ... uh, wear that cap for six minutes, and then I have a nightly concoction that includes a few things like monoxi- minoxidil and a few others. This is all on my website. So the, the recipe, the protocol, it's all there for everybody. But, yeah, I mean, I, I started losing my hair in my early 30s, and it's, it's really hard to, as a, I mean, and with my genetics, it's very, very hard for me to maintain hair. So I've had to work very hard at it.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:57 What is l- hair loss anyway? Why does our hair recede? What's

Steven Bartlett 1:01:00 going on? It doesn't-

Bryan Johnson 1:01:01 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:01:01 And it doesn't happen in women-

Bryan Johnson 1:01:02 Yeah. I know. You, you-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:04 ... typically.

Bryan Johnson 1:01:06 Uh, yeah, it's- it's really quite annoying that it's such a big problem. I wish I didn't have to pay attention to it as much as I do.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:16 Why?

Bryan Johnson 1:01:18 Uh, it just requires constant attention. And it's- it's a, uh, the technology is not that great yet. You know, like, you're- you're basically trying to slow the process, you're trying to improve follicle strength, you're trying to prevent future damage, but it's not like something where I could... like a gene therapy, where I c- with two injections, I-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:41 Your levels go up.

Bryan Johnson 1:01:42 ... 3 or 4X my- the production of that critical, uh, biochemical in my body. Uh, it's not the case there. Now, there's technology people are working on for cloning, so you take a few of your follicles, you clone that, and you reempl- you put them in. So, basically, like, doing a- a hair transplant, but you're cloning, you're doing your own- your own hair. So, there's other technologies that are emergent that are promising, they're just not on market yet. So, yeah, it's- it's hard and it's, like, being, as a man, being bald is a meaningful thing, right?

Steven Bartlett 1:02:11 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 1:02:11 It's like a- it's a significant psychological situation. So, like, if you look, if you tick through the issues of be, of, like, a man would really struggle with psychologically, you know, being bald, not being able to have erections, like, those- those are two of your top five things. And so as, you know, I hope that the things I talk about publicly help break the stigma around it, so that, uh, people feel hope they can do something about it, they don't have to hide it. It- it's- it's challenging and it- it's heavy to deal with it.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:44 What do you think about air quality? I've been thinking a lot about this. I had James Nestor on this podcast, he was talking to me about the harm of, like, in-room CO2 and-

Bryan Johnson 1:02:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:52 ... stuff like that.

Bryan Johnson 1:02:54 Yeah, I agree. Uh, my house is, I have devices a- around the entire house measuring those things every moment of every day, and I have air filters in every room. And so, the quali- air quality in my house is pristine. In Los Angeles, the air quality is not great. And so, I typically will avoid significant outdoor activities on days when the air quality is particularly bad, but I'm always aware of it. So, I have monitors in my house that tell me the outdoor air quality and the indoor air quality in every room.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:23 What's the harm that you're trying to avoid?

Bryan Johnson 1:03:25 Uh, it's damaging. There's, like, the- the, uh, the P2-, uh, 2.5, uh, there's a few things that are very damaging and they can get lodged, for example, in your lungs, and it's very hard to get it out. So, there's a lot of sustained damage that's just hard to undo.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:41 Kate.

Bryan Johnson 1:03:43 Yes?

Steven Bartlett 1:03:43 Kate Tollo. Is that her name, Tollo?

Bryan Johnson 1:03:46 Kate Tollo.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:47 Kate, will you come on out?

Bryan Johnson 1:03:49 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:03:49 Kate is a 27-year-old former fashion strategist and is Bryan's chief marketing officer.

Bryan Johnson 1:03:54 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:54 But she's also the first woman to ever sign up and follow the Blueprint way of living. And Kate is here. (page turns) Health, wellness, or medical entrepreneurs, I'm joining your industry to fix the outdated and unfair business models that you have been victim to. I'm really excited to announce that I've become an investor and co-founder in Untile, which is a disruptive new solution for all of the frustrated, undervalued, and underserved health, wellness, and medical entrepreneurs that are trying to grow their business. If you're a well care entrepreneur looking to grow your business, the link is in the description to join the waiting list. We accept roughly 20 practitioners every month, we have multiple sites opening all across London, and I really believe if you're in that industry and this sounds like something that might be of interest to you, then this is for you. (page turns) Just a quick interruption for a brand that is very close to us here at The Diary of a CEO, who are sponsoring this episode of this podcast, and that is British Airways. If you're like me and you love a good deal, I think you're going to want to hear about this. The British Airways business class sale is in full swing, and the potential savings are enormous. We're talking savings of up to 1,000 pounds on a return business class flight to places like New York, Boston, and Chicago. Plus, you can save even more on their incredible packages to both the USA and to Europe. That includes those premium business class flights and a luxury hotel stay. There's something different about flying business with British Airways, as I think you guys all know if you've ever done it. It's not just the seat that converts fully into a flat bed, or the menu, or the fact that you can watch The Diary of a CEO on the in-flight entertainment system. It's the personal touch, the experts that make you feel relaxed and at home in the sky. And here's the thing, you've got until the 13th of November, so don't sit on it. Head over to ba.com to find your deal now. (page turns) Okay. So, Bryan, who is Kate to you?

Bryan Johnson 1:05:51 (laughs)

Bryan Johnson 1:05:53 Uh, Kate had the pioneering spirit that helped give birth to Blueprint. We- we'd began working together at Kernel. Uh, we were focused on measuring the brain and how humans could co-evolve with AI, and we started talking about the possibilities of what Blueprint could be. We were, the project was underway and we were trying to figure out how we could communicate this, and Kate saw the potential immediately, and has been building this with me for several years.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:25 Why did you decide to work with Bryan, and why did you decide to develop Blueprint?

Kate Dollo 1:06:32 I grew up in a very small town with a very small field of view, and as I got more experience in the world, that view opened farther and farther. And I was in New York, and I was working in fashion at the time, and I was sitting in a cafe and I'd spent the year learning about AI coming to mainstream and what, how is the human species going to deal with this? And I felt very strongly the only way to proceed forward as a species would be to latch ourselves onto AI and to merge with AI in some way.And so, I was in this position where I had all of this energy and I was like, "I want to throw it out there into the world. I don't want to do anything on my own," and there weren't many people talking about this as a problem. And one day, I was sitting in a café and I got an email in my inbox from Singularity University, and it included a quote from this man, Bryan Johnson, back in 2016. And it, it referenced merging with AI, and I thought, "That's the person that I want to work with and throw my energy toward." And so, I reached out to him (laughs) and across like every medium. Uh, so literally his medium articles, email, social media, and I never heard back. And then year after year, I just kept pinging him and pinging him, and then eventually I, I moved out to LA to work with Bryan.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:46 And what do you do for Bryan?

Kate Dollo 1:07:48 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:48 You said you work, you work with Bryan.

Kate Dollo 1:07:50 I intentionally keep it very vague 'cause we do everything together. We are two peas in a pod and, um, from the very beginning, you know, both at Kernel and at Blueprint, we've just done anything and everything that needs to be done. My background is creative, so I, I lean more towards that side of things, so the marketing and just general brand design, that kind of stuff. But, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:12 And you've become the first woman to follow the Blueprint protocol?

Kate Dollo 1:08:15 That's right, yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:17 I remember hearing about the Blue- Blueprint protocol, um, last time we had this conversation, and one of the things that stood out to me is the amount of sacrifice-

Kate Dollo 1:08:25 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:25 ... that goes into living in line with it.

Kate Dollo 1:08:28 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:28 Things like getting up at a certain time and then going to sleep at a certain time, and-

Kate Dollo 1:08:33 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:08:34 ... things that you eat. Are you following all of that?

Kate Dollo 1:08:37 Yes. I'm definitely not as extensive as Bryan is because, uh, I've just started the protocol, but that was a big decision factor for both of us when we were considering this. One is, it is incredibly laborious on our team to bring up another person. Um, but not only that, it means completely changing my lifestyle. And so, when we were contemplating doing this decision, I really gave it a lot of serious thought because I know that the public are going to follow along. You know, it's a really big decision for my life, it's a big decision for our team and for the resources that get, get put- put behind it. And so early on, we decided that I was going to do a 30-day trial before we made any of this public to make sure that-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:13 Mm-hmm.

Kate Dollo 1:09:13 Am I capable? Am I willing? Is this something that I actually want to take on? And so, yeah, it meant completely, uh, redefining what my life li- and lifestyle is.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:22 And wh- where are we at now with that 30-day trial?

Kate Dollo 1:09:24 Yes. So I've done my 30-day trial and I'm on about day 90 of Blueprint. So, I successfully did my first 30 days which was, yeah, really, really difficult.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:33 And you're day 90 now?

Kate Dollo 1:09:34 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:35 How long are you gonna do it for?

Kate Dollo 1:09:36 That's the thing. It's an algorithm, so that was definitely something I was conscious of. This is maybe one of the last decisions I really made because I was just starting to walk into the unknown. Like, I didn't know exactly how many pills I'd be taking, what my protocol would be, how many blood draws would I be going into. It was really, am I okay revoking my conscious mind from making this decision making and stepping into the unknown?

Steven Bartlett 1:09:59 So, what does your life look like now on a day-to-day basis?

Kate Dollo 1:10:01 So I... So this, this was establishing, you know... The first 30 days was really just the trial, and so um, I'm... We're still in the process of figuring out, you know, what I'm... We're still in the process of personalizing essentially to, to my data. But what I do is I try and get 100% sleep every single night. I do perfect nutrition, so I eat the same thing as Bryan every single day. So it's 1,700 calories perfectly, you know, um, mapped out. And then I take over 60 supplements every single day and I, I, I aim to get a certain amount of, um, cardio and strength training and exercise in every week.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:37 And how has it been going?

Kate Dollo 1:10:39 It, it was really difficult. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:10:40 Yeah.

Kate Dollo 1:10:40 It was much more difficult than I expected it to be.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:42 Why?

Kate Dollo 1:10:43 Um... The process of doing Blueprint is really about, uh, measurement, intervention, and measurement again. So, when we did my baseline measurements, there were a couple things that became apparent. One is that people observe me from the outside, and this is how I observe myself as well so it's not a comment on other people, but that if things look okay from the outside, things must be okay on the inside, too. And so I had a lot of people like saying to me, "Oh, you surely must be healthy 'cause, you know, you, you look healthy so you must be fine."

Steven Bartlett 1:11:13 Mm-hmm.

Kate Dollo 1:11:14 My baseline fitness testing, for example, put me on like an average of like age 60 or age 70, just based on my flexibility, my strength, um, my, you know, cardiovascular health, all those kinds of things. Um, and then my blood work, for example, you know, a few things came back off, which is to be expected, like my vitamin D and my zinc, which is easy to fix. But then my oxidized LDL came back high, which is extremely concerning 'cause I'm only 27 years old and these are the kinds of, um, flags that you see early on that can lead to things like stroke or, you know, a buildup in your arteries that can lead to really s- serious health consequences. So, there were a couple things in those, like, baseline tests, for example, that had a red flag. Then throughout the process, I would say that it's... Because all of a sudden you're given this huge task of looking after yourself to perfection, you come face to face with the things that are in the way of your better... O- of living a better life, so your self-destructive tendencies. And so for me, (laughs) like day one I had like three different existential crisis like moments-

Steven Bartlett 1:12:19 (laughs)

Kate Dollo 1:12:19 ... you know, where my whole life crumbled down because you come face to face with things that are in your way that you had never had to deal with before.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:26 Like what?

Kate Dollo 1:12:27 So, you know, Bryan talks about evening Bryan, the Bryan that, you know, overate between 5:00 and 7:00 PM or 10:00 PM, um, every night. For me, it was priority Kate. I didn't realize before I did Blueprint that my whole life has been structured around helping other people and never focusing on myself. It was like I was completely blind to the fact that any opportunity that I get, I would deflect for myself and be like, "How are you doing? What can I do for you?" You know? Because I, I realized that I didn't have a relationship with self where if other people couldn't see it, I just neglected it.... so in like little things it meant that I would schedule meetings back-to-back, and I wouldn't make time to, you know, use the restroom or eat or have proper sleep. Um, and then s- 10:00 PM would roll around and I'd finish work and the only thing that was left open was McDonald's, and so that's what I would eat for dinner.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:16 Mm-hmm.

Kate Dollo 1:13:17 Um, or you know, if, if a friend, if I committed to hang out with him on the weekend, there was no way I was going to, you know, say that I can't do that anymore just to get enough sleep because, you know, ultimately I cared more about what the other people's perceptions than my o- my own actual wellbeing.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:31 People pleaser.

Kate Dollo 1:13:31 Yes. People pleaser, big time.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:34 Mm. And does d- Blueprint it's, sounds like it's the antithesis of people pleasing.

Kate Dollo 1:13:39 Yeah, I would say so. Um, and it's kind of like that, you know, Brian references this, but the, the airplane example where you want to put your ma- own mask on before you can help others. So, you know, in this process I've slowly learnt that I am functioning better and I can actually do more by people pleasing in a weird way, (laughs) anyway-

Steven Bartlett 1:13:57 Mm-hmm.

Kate Dollo 1:13:57 ... by looking after myself first.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:59 What a, what have been the, i- i-

Steven Bartlett 1:14:02 although it's just been 90 days-

Kate Dollo 1:14:03 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:03 ... what have you noticed, changes?

Kate Dollo 1:14:05 So as far as actual, like, results and data it was, it was very, um, straightforward. Everything improved pretty much across the board. Um, so my, my restorative sleep increased by 19% in 30 days. Um, my flexibility improved. My strength improved, like my, my leg press one rep, uh, one rep, one rep max went from 220 pounds to 360 pounds in 30 days. Um, I did, uh, VO2 max testing, um, so my body's ability to use oxygen. A- when I first did it at the start of the 30 days, I was put at the 51st percentile, so if you look at, like, an age graph, you'd be able to predict exactly what age I am. I was spot on average. And then after 30 days, I had increased into the top 7% of fitness for my, um, age and gender, which is huge for me because I'm someone who has never exercised a day in my life before this. I'd never gone on runs. I hated the gym. I'd never been trained in the gym. It was just something that was like the antithesis of anti-Kate, you know.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:59 Mm-hmm.

Kate Dollo 1:15:00 Um, so yeah. Huge, huge changes on my end. And my blood work improved. We're still waiting on my oxidized LDL to come back, but generally everything, everything looks really good.

Steven Bartlett 1:15:09 What's your take on that, on things that have improved and the changes you've seen in her?

Bryan Johnson 1:15:14 I think the, the most interesting and, uh, entertaining was the existential crises.

Steven Bartlett 1:15:20 Mm-hmm.

Bryan Johnson 1:15:20 Where they be- they became so frequent I would send her messages just like in a, a joking fashion, like, "Hey," (laughs) , "Like hope your existential crisis is going well today. How can, uh, how can I help?" Yeah, but she really was, I, I applaud her because she jumped in with both feet and she was willing to share the entirety of her internal experience. So she didn't try to camouflage any of her pain. She didn't try to, uh, be tougher than she was. She was just open and transparent about the entire process. And I think that people around us, the entire team and, uh, those observing drew a lot of inspiration because she was open about everything, about what she was struggling with internally, and, uh, she was willing to step into the problem. Like, she, she didn't miss a single day, and that's hard. Like, there's a lot of, uh, motivation to quit or to take a day off, and so I am really pleased that, um, she gave it a go and, uh, she prevailed. It wou- would have been very easy for her to quit.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:17 Hey, you're 27.

Kate Dollo 1:16:18 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:19 Um, sacrifice.

Kate Dollo 1:16:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:23 People think of 20, your 20s, sacrifice they think going out, partying. Did you do that stuff before? Did you, like, date, you know, all that kinda stuff?

Kate Dollo 1:16:31 Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh, definitely was a big consideration for me. And, like, the other thing to add is Blueprint, especially at the level we're trying to do this at is a full-time endeavor, and so you have to fit this into your existing lifestyle, and so it's really difficult. Even things like, you know, during that 30-day trial, we travel for work and I remember we got back one day and it was like 6:00 PM or something like that and everyone was like zonked after being on the road for three days or something like that, and I was like, "I gotta go exercise now, guys." And everyone was like, "What?" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:17:00 Mm-hmm.

Kate Dollo 1:17:01 But that's the thing, like, you know, my data, it demanded it. My body demanded it. And so I was gonna do it. It wasn't about, you know, what I wanted in that moment or not. Um, so it is a very intense thing to commit to. As far as like the socializing and all that kinda stuff, yeah, I, I was someone who, you know, would stay up, I mean, I would stay up working a lot of the time. Like, I'm a grind culture child. Like, I, I really did throw myself into it. So I would say that's probably the thing that changed the most. On the socializing thing, like, my friends have been so, uh, accommodating. You know, I, and we'd go out for brunch still and I would bring my Blueprint tin and just sit at the table while, you know, other people were having their, you know, maybe their mimosas with orange juice in it. Um, but yeah, I think there have been easy ways to make it fit into my life and the people around me have been really accommodating, which is lovely.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:51 What's been the biggest and the hardest sacrifice? The

Steven Bartlett 1:17:55 thing that you, you know, maybe on the difficult days you miss a little bit?

Kate Dollo 1:18:00 You know, this is so sad, but my, the first thing that comes to my mind is oat milk lattes. (laughs) Like I'm such a-

Steven Bartlett 1:18:05 (laughs)

Kate Dollo 1:18:05 ... typical, you know, uh, yeah, young person now. But yeah, I, you know, there's like little y- you realize, you c- come face to face with the fact that a lot of life's small joys are baked into the things that you do on a routine basis. And so it to- it took me a while to remap those things, um, but now-

Steven Bartlett 1:18:23 Did you drink before?

Kate Dollo 1:18:24 No. I mean, a- I was, I was like a normal-

Steven Bartlett 1:18:26 For sure. Yeah.

Kate Dollo 1:18:26 ... normal person, yeah. So drinks on the weekend with friends.

Steven Bartlett 1:18:30 Wouldn't you feel a little bit guilty if you quit doing this? After everything the team have invested in you, Brian's faith in you-

Kate Dollo 1:18:36 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:18:36 ... does that not feel like a bit of a pressure?

Kate Dollo 1:18:38 Yes, it does. However, this was also, you can't let those things drive you when you're on Blueprint. So for example, I, halfway through my, my 30-day period, I started to really not feel great and I would watch my heart rate. You know, as you get better at exercises, uh, exercise, your fitness improves, it's harder to get your heart rate up, and I was going against this metric of I need to get my heart rate over 173 beats per minute, um, to hit this vigorous heart rate zone to get my markers, um, up.And I was pushing myself and pushing myself. I was, you know, I documented all this, all, you know, for our YouTube channel and whatnot. But I was at this point where I was crying on the weekend and I was like, "I don't know if I can do this. Like, I think I have to give up." Because I just couldn't get my heart rate up. And it took me a second to realize that Priority Kate had snuck in again, but in this really