The Diary of a CEOThe Scary New Research On Sugar & How They Made You Addicted To It! Jessie Inchauspé | E243
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,043 words- 0:00 – 2:02
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm gonna be completely honest with you here. It's important. (dramatic music) I thought the subject matter of glucose was ******* boring until I read your book, and then I was like, "Oh, my God."
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Jessie Inchauspé- The Glucose Goddess- ... is a biochemist. An author. Teaching us the best hacks to eat right. Without giving up the foods that we love.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Glucose is your body's favorite source of energy. Your brain cells are using glucose to think, speak, move. So when you flood your body with too much glucose too quickly, what happens is what I call a glucose spike. The more spikes you have, the faster you die.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In your book, you talk about these 10 hacks.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Eat food in the right order.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
After you eat, move. Drink vinegar before you eat.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're such a weirdo.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Learn the glucose hacks and then just eat everything you love. Like that's the thing you have to understand.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wh- why do you care about this stuff?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Well, I went through my own sort of health journey. It was awful. And I was like, "I need to figure out how to fix myself." Like, "I need to understand what's going on because otherwise I just don't wanna live anymore." It was really to that point. I was like, "Either I figure out how to fix this or this is just too painful of an existence."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode. (upbeat music)
- 2:02 – 15:14
What is it that you do and why does it matter?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Jessie.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Steven.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is it that you do and why does it matter?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(sighs) I teach people about how food impacts their body, and it matters because most of us are unknowingly eating in a way that causes many of the symptoms that we suffer from on a daily basis. So it matters because once people understand how their dietary habits are impacting them, and once they make change, their whole universe upgrades. All of the things that they thought were just who they were, you know, the poor energy, the cravings, the acne, the bad sleep, the hormonal issues, all of a sudden, they can vanish. And so they kind of reconnect with their true selves once they're past all of those symptoms.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wh- why do you care about this stuff?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(sighs) Many different reasons. Um, one is a personal story. The other is because I see a lot of people suffering from diseases that they don't understand and that unknowingly they're making worse. Mi- one big examples f- one big example for me is people who have type 2 diabetes, and a lot of people who have type 2 diabetes are eating in a way that's making it worse, but they think they're eating in a way that's good for them. And that breaks my heart into pieces, you know? I wanna give people the power back. I wanna give people the information back because the landscape we live in, you know, the, the marketing messages about food, all the confusing packaging, the confusing advice, the fads, that's really destructive. And so I wanna help people, like, clean all that up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And the personal reason?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Well, I went through my own sort of health journey, um, that got me to a point where I realized that health is the most important thing in the world. And if you don't ha- have that, you really don't have much. And, um, I mean, we can go into some detail into this since I guess-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Let's go.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... we have some time. And I don't usually go into detail about this topic. I've sort of learned to, you know, brush over it and just give the short version.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm not interested in the short version.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(inhales deeply) Okay. Okay. Um, long version. So I grew up super healthy, happy kid, no health issues. Nobody in my family had any health issues. It was very, you know, easy. And then I'm 19 years old and I'm just, you know, becoming a teenager. I'm at, I'm at the peak of this kind of phase where I really wanna be cool and I really wanna show that, like, I'm a badass, you know? And so I'm on vacation with some friends in Hawaii, of all places, and there's four of us, my current best girlfriend and two guy friends. And we go into the jungle just for a hike. And the two guy friends, who are, like, super fit guys, decide to jump off this waterfall, this, like, 30 feet, 30 f- waterfall. And, um, they're like, "Jessie, you should do it too." And so I was terrified and I did not wanna do it, but I really wanted to be cool. I really wanted to be like, "I don't care." Like, "I can do whatever. Yeah, I'm not scared." (laughs) So I decide to also jump off the waterfall. Spoiler alert, it was not a good idea. So I'm at the top of the, the rocks and I'm looking down, and I'm like, "Oh, my God." And my two friends are down there and they're like... They tell me to land in the water really straight. They say, "Just make your body like a stick and make sure your feet touch the water first." And I, as I'm in the air, as soon as I leap off the edge of the cliff, of course, when you're falling, you get that sensation in your stomach. The like... (gasps) And I feel that and I just freak out. Like, I am terrified. And so mid-air, instead of landing really nice and straight, I kind of, like, try to stop the fall, so I- I sort of bend my knees a little bit but, like, we're talking a really small change and as soon as my tailbone hits the water, I feel a huge pain in my back like, ja! Like, a really intense pain and so I go under the water, I come back out and I'm, like, swearing. I'm like, "Fuck, fuck, fuck. Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow." And my friends are like, "Oh my God, what's happening?" So I managed to climb out of the water, of the pool, and I'm in so much pain but there's nothing visible on my body. There's no blood, there's no bruising. My back looks normal. So I'm like, "I don't know what happened. I'm in so much pain." They're like, "Okay. Well, let's walk back to the car, you know, don't know what happened." So I walk back a mile in the jungle, you know, with what I ended up learning was a broken back, um, which was super dangerous. Yeah. The adrenaline, everything was, um, just pumping and allowing me to do that. 24 hours go by, I don't know what's happening. I'm at home with my parents and I'm like, "I don't know. I'm in so much pain." But you couldn't see anything on my body, so it was like... I know. So I decide to just sleep it off. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
What the fuck?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
The next day I wake up, I'm like... I know. Um, next day I wake up, I'm still in a lot of pain, so I get taken to a, like a, osteopath or, I don't know, a chiropractor or something and, um, he sees me arrive and he puts, like, a finger on my back and I'm like, "Ow, ow." He's like, "No, no, you have to go to the hospital." So 24 hours later I get to the hospital. They finally do a scan and they say, "Yeah, one of your vertebrae is in 13 pieces. You need to not move anymore. Here's a corset. You're not allowed to move until it gets fixed because if you move, if one of the pieces of your vertebrae, like, dislodges a little bit, you could rupture your spinal cord and then you're paralyzed." So I was like, "Okay." I spend two weeks at home in the house in Hawaii. We're trying to figure out where to get surgery. So I'm just in bed. I'm not allowed to move, basically, just to go to the bathroom. End up being flown back to Europe on, like, a medical plane to a clinic in Zurich, an amazing place. Once I get there, another week of waiting until the surgery arrive. So at this point, I'm three weeks in, three weeks with a broken back terrified about what's gonna happen. I haven't been able to move my body, haven't been able to move any stress from my body. I'm like, really not okay. They're giving me painkillers, like, the whole thing is intense.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You can't move your body for what? Two, two, two weeks or so?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Three weeks.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Three weeks.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Before the surgery. I was not allowed to move. I had to stay in bed because of the risk as we were figuring out what to do 'cause my parents were like, "Okay, is she gonna get surgery in LA, in Zurich?" Like, you know, you have to figure out... 'Cause then I had to stay in the hospital after the surgery, so it's a real decision of like, where are you gonna have the operation? And so I'm in the clinic in Zurich and the doctor comes up to me. He's like, "Okay, so listen, this is what's gonna happen. Um, we're gonna open your body from the side. We're gonna take some organs out, clean up the vertebrae, close the side, flip you over, open from the back, open the spine, put a metal cage in, put the broken bones back in, drill six, like, three-inch nails into your spine and then put some rods and then we'll close you back. Oh, by the way, there's a risk we're gonna perforate a lung but, like, hopefully, you know, it won't happen." I was like, "What the fuck?" I was so-
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, thank you.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah. So anyway, all this to say that I was really, really, really, really, really, really scared of dying. It was fucking awful and I was like, "If I just wake up, if I wake up on the other side of this, I will be filled with gratitude for, like, the rest of my life." You know? That was the feeling. So anyway, surgery happens, I wake up and instead of gratitude, I start feeling a humongous amount of pain. Like, 100X the amount of pain from the actual break in my back. My entire body is on fire. M- all of my legs are just, like, inflamed like crazy. They're giving me, like, sleeping pills and shit. I'm having the craziest nightmares. Uh, a nurse comes into my room every three hours to inject, you know, like, opioids in my leg. I mean, it's just, like, fucking nightmare. Like, total, total nightmare. I can't move at all because if I move my body, the scars feel like they're gonna rip open. I lose, like, 20 pounds in 10 days. I haven't eaten anyth- I don't eat anything for, like, two weeks. Anyway, so horrible physical stuff. But the good news is the physical bit actually heals. Like, in three months, I'm totally fine. No more pain, feeling strong, exercising again, no problem. But then the real problem starts happening. My brain starts not feeling okay. I start feeling like I'm a bit, like, in a dream. Like, I have this weird sensation of, like, every- instead of everything being 3D, it's now 2D and I'm kind of feel like I'm in a movie and I look at my hands and they don't look like mine and I start having panic attacks when I see myself in the mirror. So, like, my brain starts breaking and I had never experienced any mental health issues when I was younger, so I- I... Super clueless. So anyway, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is there a term, term for that? A medical term for that sort of disassociation?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah, the closest thing that I've found is depersonalization, which is losing touch with reality and your self, and I always felt like when those episodes happen, I feel like I leave my body. Like, I'm kind of looking from above and also I become super, super scared of just existence. So being alive becomes the scariest thing y- I can ever imagine.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that still happens today?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Very, very, very rarely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When was the last time it happened?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Actually, two days ago I had, like, 10 minutes of it because I had just taken the plane all the way here to California and I felt quite ungrounded and I could tell there was some stress in my body that was not moving. But now when it happens, like, I know how to fix it. I know what's going on. But back then, I had no clue. So for a year, I felt like that.... super clueless. And I didn't understand what in my surroundings or in how I was living was making it better or worse. I was completely clueless. I was like, "I have this horrible thing happening to me. Nobody understands it. I feel crazy, but I also feel like, shit, this might be the rest of my life. Like, this might just be my life now, this immense pain and terror at just existing." So, out of all this nightmare, um, emerges a very clear thought in my head which is, "If you don't have your health, you have nothing." Like, it's health first. Like, this is the number one most important thing in life. And bear in mind, I'm 19 years old, which is kind of a young age to have that realization. And Steven knows, like, I need to figure out how to fix myself. Like, I need to understand what's going on because otherwise I just don't want to live anymore. It was really to that point. I was like, "Either I figure out how to fix this or this is just too painful of an existence."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Isn't it such a shame that it requires s- often a traumatic event where our health is tested or, um, we realize the fa- the fallibility of it? Is that the right word?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, for us to start thinking and caring about it. I, I think about this all the time, you know. One of the most pivotal shifts in my life occurred during the pandemic where I vicariously saw the entire world struggling, um, and one of the factors that exacerbated that struggle or increased your chances of being susceptible to the illness was your, your health. And I watched vicariously from this, from this f- lockdowned apartment in the North of England through the TV screens as all of these people were being rushed to hospital, et cetera, and it was, it was the moment that... the wakeup call I needed. I didn't need something to fail in my health, I needed to watch the world struggle because of health for me to go, "Oh, my God. Okay. So, my health is my first foundation." It's not the business.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- 15:14 – 26:45
Why glucose?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
- SBSteven Bartlett
You wrote a book called The Glucose Revolution: The Life-Changing Power of Balancing Your Blood Sugar.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wrote that book last year. Why did you write a book about glucose? Of all the things in health and food you could've written about, why glucose?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Right? It's so interesting. Essentially, after f- having this realization that I needed to figure out how my body worked, I went on, like, a quest, you know, with different chapters. And so first chapter was I was living in London before. I was studying mathematics. And I moved to Georgetown in the US, Washington, DC to study biochemistry in grad school to learn about how the body worked. And then I went to Silicon Valley to work in genetics because I wanted to understand our DNA. You know, I was trying to, like, piece together as much as I could to try to understand how my body functioned, uh, so that I could feel better, so that in the morning I, I could wake up not terrified of being alive. That was the bar, you know? (laughs) The bar was quite low. And even though D- DNA and studying it was interesting, it actually... Your DNA doesn't give you a lot of information about what you need to do to feel good. Your DNA can tell you, you know, where you're from, what your traits are, maybe if you have an increased risk of a disease in the future, but your DNA doesn't tell you exactly what you need to do. What really matters more in terms of determining how we feel on a daily basis and how quickly we age and if we can just still kayak when we're 65 has much more to do with how we live, you know, how we eat, how we move, our environment, what we do. So I learned that as I was in this genetics company. And when I was there, something incredible happened. I discovered the world of glucose. And now I'm talking about this, you know, on a daily basis and writing books about it. I discovered that my mental health got worse when my glucose, also known as blood sugar, was not healthy, steady, and balanced. I discovered that when my blood sugar levels were kind of like a rollercoaster, these episodes of depersonalization happened much more frequently. There was even this one instance where I had... And I was able to see my blood sugar levels with a glucose monitor that I wore for a couple weeks. I was able to see one of the spikes in blood sugar actually triggering the episode. I was like, "Whoa. I'm finally understanding a clue. How I'm eating and how that affects my glucose levels, is then in turn affecting how I'm feeling and my mental health." And for me, that was like the jumping off point. I was like, "Whoa. This is fascinating." And I just dove really deep into it and I studied it, you know, for four years. I've been talking about it for that long, and ended up writing a book about it because it's actually really important for all of us to know about this molecule and to learn to manage it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
They call you the Glucose Goddess.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
I call myself the Glucose Goddess.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And now they call you the Glucose Goddess. (laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs) Yes. Yes. Exactly. I wanted to find a catchy name after, you know, two years, um, talking about this on social media. At first, my account was just my name-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... Jessie Inchope, which is really hard to, uh, write and pronounce and spell, so, so I needed a catchy name. So I was like Glucose Girl, Glucose Gal, and then I thought-... Glucose Goddess.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Y- you said there that, you know, watching your, um, glucose monitor, presumably on your phone, it was connected to your phone?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, you could identify that the cause- causation between a spike in your glucose and mental health implications.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But, okay, what else, why else does glucose matter?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah, that's a very good question because, you know, not everybody has these de- depersonalization episodes. So when I first got that piece of information, I was like, "Okay, glucose is affecting how I'm feeling. Let me see in the scientific papers, what else does glucose matter for?" And I went into, like, a massive deep dive into all of the scientific studies about glucose that I could find. I had, like, a thousand tabs open on my computer browser. I w- I just went really, really, really deep and I discovered some amazing things. So, first, I discovered that I was not alone, that most people who don't have diabetes still experience these blood sugar spikes p- potentially on a daily basis without knowing it. And that's a really good piece of information because for years we thought only if you have diabetes should your glucose levels be of any concern to you. You know? It was kind of like either you have diabetes and need to learn how to manage glucose, or you don't have diabetes and, like, don't even worry about it. Now we know that everybody can be suffering from these spikes without knowing it. So, that was a huge revelation for me and that study was very recent. I think it was from 2018. So when I discovered it, you know, four years ago, it w- it had just come out, so I was like, "Whoa!" Like, "Stuff is changing on this topic. We're realizing the importance of it for everybody." Second, I was like, "Okay, let's look at all the symptoms that are associated with these spikes from the scientific studies," right? So the most common symptoms of glucose spikes are things like cravings-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... for sweet foods-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... multiple times a day. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You looked at me as if you know that I have that problem, and you're right.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you should have just said it. You know? I- I don't like it being indirect and s- (laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs) No, I was just, like, I was just curious, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
No, you were looking at me 'cause you knew.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... do you feel that too?
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, uh, as f- you've probably heard me talk about the sweets around my house that I used to have. It's gone now, but, um, none of us are perfect, Jessie. Um-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
I'm not perfect either.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you say cravings-
- 26:45 – 35:06
The symptoms of bad glucose spikes
- JIJessie Inchauspé
- SBSteven Bartlett
We're gonna get into-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... exactly how to do that. I wanna go a little bit back upstream. We were talking about the symptoms.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, we... You've covered the cravings.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, what other... Give me some of the, the short and the long-term symptoms of these, the glucose-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Spikes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... rollercoaster.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then I wanna know what glucose is, 'cause-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Absolutely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... that's probably a better place to start. (laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs) No, no, I think symptoms is cool because most people will recognize a lot of these in their own lives. So, cravings is the most common one. Then unsteady energy levels, so feeling tired throughout the day. Maybe you have chronic fatigue. Maybe you need a lot of coffee to get through the day. You know, maybe playing with your kids is exha- is exhausting. Picking up the groceries is exhausting. Just, like, you're tired. You know, you're eating, but you're tired. Very common symptom. And we'll get into why that happens maybe in a bit. Those are the two most common short-term ones. Then...
- SBSteven Bartlett
What about memory?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Ah, that's a good question. So, the more glucose spikes you have, the more the neurons in your brain are gonna work, like, less well. So, one of the most common symptoms of glucose spikes on the brain is actually brain fog.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, okay.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
So, feeling like you can't really remember stuff too well. Um, everything's a little bit blurry. That's basically your neurons not being able to communicate as quickly as they usually do, and it's often felt as brain fog. But then there's a huge link between glucose and long-term brain problems, like dementia and Alzheimer's. Some people even call Alzheimer's "type 3 diabetes" because it's so linked to your glucose levels. So, the brain, if you want your brain to be in optimal, top shape, steadying your glucose levels is really key.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What if I wanna sleep like a baby?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah, absolutely, also. So, the more spikes you have, the less restful and deep your sleep will be. So, if you wanna sleep like a baby, absolutely. If you're somebody going through menopause, and you wanna reduce menopause symptoms, also looking at your glucose levels is a very important place to start, because the more spikes we have, the worse those symptoms get. Talking about hormones, there's also a huge link between glucose levels and fertility. So, in females today, you know, there's more and more rates of infertility. There's something called polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is more and more common. That also is extremely linked to your glucose levels. And again, the first place to look if you wanna fix your hormones is balancing your glucose. Other stuff, and there's a lot of symptoms here because glucose affects every single system in the body. So, there's not a single disease or condition that doesn't get better (laughs) when you balance your glucose levels, essentially. But I'll go into a few more, um, examples. Skin. So, inflammation is a direct consequence of glucose spikes, and on the, on the skin, inflammation can be seen as acne, eczema, psoriasis.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I have no idea wh- You know, there's two words that have just exploded into, like, popular conversation-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... over the last, I'm gonna say 12 months, but, you know, I'm not that deep to, to know how long this conversation's been happening. But one of those words is the word glucose. I've just seen it everywhere all of a sudden. And the second word, which I've seen even in more places, is that word you just used, inflammation.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is inflammation?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Inflammation is a s- is a stress response from your body-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... that is supposed to help you and clean things up. So, for example, when you get sick, when there's a virus or a bug that's attacking you, your body essentially creates inflammation to combat that enemy. The problem is, inflammation now often happens against your own body or just, like, chronically at a low level, and that causes many, many, many issues. So, it's a state of stress of the body.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it happens in all of our... It can, it can happen in all of the cells in our body, and-
- 35:06 – 38:06
What is glucose?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So this begs the question which I probably should have started with, which is, what is glucose?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Now, in my brain-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah, tell me what you think.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... which is a slightly, um, undeveloped brain on this subject matter, um, I've just always thought of it as sugar.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So I've just thought of it as the sugar I eat is turned into this thing called glucose, and then the glucose runs around in my body in my blood and seeps into everything.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah. Well, that's a pretty, that's a pretty, pretty good-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Thank you.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... um, like high level definition. Um, and I think that's what most people who know a little bit about the topic, um, think. So let me explain so you know exactly what it is because that definition, while it's what most people think, it's actually a bit incomplete. So I'm gonna give you like the 101 basics-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Please.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... so you understand what's going on.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Thank you. Explain it like a 10-year-old.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Absolutely. So glucose is your body's favorite source of energy. Every single cell in your body uses glucose for energy. So, you know, right now both of our heart cells are using glucose to pump. Your brain cells are using glucose to think and speak. My, you know, hand cells are using glucose to move, et cetera. So every part of your body uses glucose for energy. It's really, really important. And the main way that us as human beings, we give our body this important substance is through eating foods, and specifically through eating two categories of foods. Starchy foods, so that's like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes-... and sweet foods. Anything from your favorite cookie to a banana to a Coca-Cola, anything sweet. So starchy and sweet foods contain glucose, and when we eat them, the glucose is given to our body. (smacks lips) So now you might think, "Okay, I want energy," right? My body, I want to give my body as much energy as possible.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Sounds great. Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Right? I wanna, I wanna feel good. I wanna have energy. So you might think, "Okay, I should eat as much starchy and sweet foods as possible-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... to give my body as much energy as possible."
- SBSteven Bartlett
The cookies are good for me.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Well, this is where the whole-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... logic thing breaks down. It's a bit like plants. So let's say I go on vacation and I'm like, "Steven, can you please take care of my house plants?" You'll be like, "Of course, Jessie, yeah. Uh, f- uh, my, my pleasure, I would love to help you." So (laughs) -
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, no. Wow.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... you would go to... (laughs) So you would go to my house and give my plants a little bit of water, right? 'Cause you know that plants need some water. But if you gave the plants too much water, they would end up drowning and dying, and I would come back from my vacation, my, all my plants would be dead. So the plant got a bit too much of a good thing, and that caused issues. The human body is the same. Some glucose is good. Too much glucose causes all these issues, and most of us are eating in a way that gives way too much glucose too quickly to our body, and that's why we feel all these symptoms.
- 38:06 – 43:44
What happens to our bodies when we have a glucose spike?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
- SBSteven Bartlett
So what's going on at a cellular level when I flood my body with glucose?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
So there are three sort of main processes that I wanna tell you about on this topic. So when you flood your body with too much glucose too quickly, (clicks tongue) what happens is what I call a glucose spike. So a glucose spike is just simply a sort of rapid increase in how much glucose is in your system. So it goes... If you have a glucose monitor, you can kinda see it. It goes like broup. It just goes up really fast, the concentration. And so the first thing that we need to look at is your mitu- mitochondria. So your mitochondria are like little, um, sort of oval organelles inside of your cells, and they kinda have this squiggly line in the middle-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... when we represent them in drawings. These mitochondria are in charge of turning glucose into energy. They're super freaking important. They take the glucose from the food, and they do some magic and outputs energy so you can do stuff, like, I don't know, walk, run, think, whatever. So when a glucose spike happens, all of that glucose heads straight to the mitochondria because that's where it gets processed, right? And your mitochondria, unfortunately, while they like a steady influx of glucose, during a spike, when you give them way too much glucose way too quickly, they kind of, like, shut down. They're like, "I just... Too m- TMI, I cannot... Too much information. Like, I can't (laughs) deal with this." They sort of go on strike. They get stressed out, um, and they kind of break down. So that's a real problem because you just ate all this food 'cause you were like, "I wanna give my body energy," right? Sugar in the morning, energy. Actually, on the inside, your mitochondria, the very things responsible for making energy, they break down when you give them too much glucose to handle. So that's the first thing that happens. And when your mitochondria break down, it increases how much stress there is in your body, and it increases that thing we talked about, inflammation, which is not good and creates a lot of, like, terrain for a lot of diseases to happen. That's the first thing that happened. Glucose spikes, mitochondria break down, and you get tired. Not good. Second thing that happens is this thing called glycation that I explained, which is aging. The more spikes you have, the more glycation happens quickly, the faster you age on the outside with your wrinkles, but also on the inside. So the kayak when you're 65 is gonna get harder and harder the more glycation happens when you're young, for example. And then finally, so your body really wants to keep you alive, as I mentioned. Like, your body is pretty freaking awesome, and it's really trying to protect you. And so it has a technique that it deploys when a glucose spike is happening to get that level of glucose down, because it knows, like, "Oof, when glucose is very high, like, all this bad stuff happens, so let me (snaps fingers) get that to go down." Your body releases something called insulin, which comes from your pancreas, and we love insulin. She's dope. She grabs all the extra glucose, and she stores it away into your muscles, into your liver, and into your fat cells.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
And that's one of the ways that you gain fat on your body, is by having insulin take this extra glucose and store it away.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Can she not just put it in my muscles?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(sighs) Unfortunately... (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
I'll call her and ask. But no, unfortunately, you can't decide where it goes. Um, and then while insulin is cool, like, long term, too much insulin is the cause of type 2 diabetes. So while she's helpful in the short term, long term, she causes all sorts of issues, especially connected to fertility, which is also, um, something that we might wanna talk about. Really fascinating topic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is- isn't i- is that therefore conceivable? You know, I've got a friend that had, um, polycystic ovaries.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, um, she said on a podcast that she has recently that she used to have a problem with, um, binge-eating.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She talked about it. And I- a- as you said, as you said that, I kinda connected the two dots, that her insulin spikes-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... from her binge-eating challenges might have had an impact on the polycystic ovaries-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and the infertility challenges she'd had. She'd, um, she had very, very irregular periods to the point at one point her period stopped completely. And I was just wondering if there's... Obviously, we can't diagnose someone we don't know, but I'm just saying, is there, is there a link there potentially?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Well, listen, it's hard for me to say, but, um, what we do know is that, you know, polycystic ovarian syndrome is very tightly linked to glucose, so the more spikes you have...... I mean, potentially from the eating disorder, but also just a lot of people even without an eating disorder have enough spikes to cause this issue. The more spikes you have, the more insulin you have in your body. And then the more insulin you have in a female body, the higher testosterone levels get.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Uh.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
And so PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, is kind of like a grouping of symptoms, so, um, pol- cystic ovaries, missed periods, balding on the head, hair growth on the face, acne, et cetera, that we kind of put into this package of, like, "This is PCOS." Actually, a lot of these are symptoms of just excess testosterone in a female body, testosterone being the male sex hormone. So again, if you have PCOS, it's very important to balance your glucose levels to get that testosterone down. It's, like, the first thing to look at, the first thing to fix. And I get on a daily basis messages from readers who had PCOS, used the hacks that I share, don't have PCOS anymore, got their periods back, were able to conceive naturally, et cetera. So very tightly linked, glucose and hormones.
- 43:44 – 48:30
Glucose as it relates to weight gain
- JIJessie Inchauspé
- SBSteven Bartlett
This, this drug insulin, so it takes the, takes the glucose and it's-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
And by the way, it's not really a drug. It's, like, something your body makes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A chemical.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
But then you can also take it, um, as a drug-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... uh, if you have diabetes, for example.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So this chemical, insulin-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... it stores, it stores the glucose in my, my fat, in my muscles, in my liver.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, how does that, how does that have an impact then on weight gain and weight loss?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So if I've just had a glucose spike, insulin's been deployed.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She's doing her work. She's storing it in all those places. Does that impact my ability to gain and lose weight?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Absolutely. So when there's a lot of insulin around, insulin, when she's around, she's like, "Okay, everybody, stop. We're only gonna be putting stuff into fat cells. Nothing can come out of fat cells." So when h- when there's high insulin levels, your fat cells become like a one-way street. Things can go in to make them grow in size and quantity, so it's one of the ways you gain fat on your body, and nothing can come out. And we- when people say, like, "I wanna lose fat on my body," what they're really saying is, "I wanna empty my fat cells so that, you know, my waist size reduces at the same time." So yes, the more insulin, the harder it is to actually lose any fat.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I get it. (laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
I, I think I get it now. Um, is there anything that's, like, missing from that, that picture you've painted for me?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I, I now understand the relationship between what I put in my mouth, the impact that has on my glucose levels. It causes spikes and dips that causes-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... a bunch of short and long-term consequences because of what's going on in my mitochondria and insulin. Is there, is there a next step in that process that I need to be aware of?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So my insulin is now raised, right?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She's, she shut down my fat cells.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
She's doing her thing. She's storing it away.
- 48:30 – 1:02:14
10 Hacks to prevent glucose spikes
- SBSteven Bartlett
this gluco roller coaster is bad for me-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the spikes and the crashes, how does one flatten the glucose curve? In your book, you talk about these 10 hacks.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Can we go through some of these hacks to...
- JIJessie Inchauspé
But for sure. I think that's the most important, really, because-
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, hack one-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Hack one, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... eat food in the right order.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What did you mean by that?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
So, to give some context, like all the hacks in my books, they are just summaries of scientific studies. So, when I was going really deep into all the science, I found, you know, all these symptoms and conditions linked to spikes, and I found also these amazing ways we could still eat everything we loved, but without creating these spikes. Right? So, still eating everything you love, but reducing any symptoms or any problems you might be having physically or mentally. Okay, so eat your food in the right order. So, next time you're faced with a meal, listeners, next time you're faced with a meal, there's something amazing that you should know. If you eat the ingredients in the meal in a specific order, you can reduce the glucose spike of that meal by up to 75% without changing how much you're eating, what you're eating. Just the order has a massive impact on your glucose. So, you can still eat the same meal with way less spikes and way less consequences. So, the right order is veggies first. I should make a T-shirt. Veggies first (laughs) , proteins and fats second, and starches and sugars last. So, let's take an example of a meal, maybe. Steven, what's a typical meal you have, and then we'll add stuff for the example.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Cookies.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Okay. So, let's say cookies. That's your sugars. Let's say you're having cookies. Let's say, I don't know, you eat fish?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Okay, let's say-
- SBSteven Bartlett
I eat everything to be honest.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I just, I'm so... Other than snails. I've still got a little bit of a psychological issue there, but-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
I've never tried snails, and I'm French.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
It just- it just grosses me out.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I don't- I don't think that's something you need to-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
No (laughs) .
- SBSteven Bartlett
... figure out.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Okay, so let's say you have like some fish, some broccoli, some pasta, some olive oil and avocado, and a cookie. So, the right order for your glucose levels is gonna be the broccoli first.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Then the fish, then the pasta, and the cookie. And the avocado and olive oil you can kind of have it like with the, with the fish. Now, this is an interesting like theoretical thing to understand. It might not always be very practical to just separate out your meal and be like, "Okay, this first, that then, that then." But there's a few things you should note. Number one, you don't actually have to wait between any of these foods. You can just eat them one after the other and still get the amazing impact on your glucose levels. And number two, really the most important thing here that we need to learn from this scientific study is that the veggies should come first. So, what I do now, and what, you know, my community does, is that we all have, always have a veggie starter at the beginning of a meal, and then we just eat the rest of the meal kind of normally. And that already has a massive impact on your glucose levels and how you're gonna feel.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A lot of people when they do it in the o-... Do it very much in the opposite order in t- terms of like kind of, they leave the veggies on the side of the plate, you know? I think when I was a kid I'd go for whatever was tasty first, and then-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- 1:02:14 – 1:09:26
The right meal to have for breakfast
- SBSteven Bartlett
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah. What did you have for breakfast even?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Today?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Uh, nothing yet today. I, I was go- so I was actually ... I ordered food, right, to this wo- this wonderful studio here in London, um, (laughs) at 10:30 AM and it said it would take a half an hour to get here, and it got here when you arrived.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I looked at it and I thought, "If I eat this, then I'm gonna have some kind of, like, dump halfway through this conversation."
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, it's just sat-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Can I ask-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... through then.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... what you ordered?
- SBSteven Bartlett
No.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Okay. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Because some foods, some breakfast foods will have that impact and make you feel tired.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'm joking.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, so I ordered a breakfast wrap. So it's got, like, eggs, avocados, bacon in it, and it's like a gluten-free w- wrap thing. And I was looking at it thinking, because of this bread, I think the bread is probably gonna make me have a dump-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and I don't ever wanna have, like, a energy dump halfway through a convers-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I don't wanna fall asleep, you know, that's rude.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
That would be, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Midway through the conversation. So I've not eaten yet.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Interesting.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I had coffee.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
So ac- so actually, you know, your choice is, is a pretty good one in terms of glucose. So, the main thing we wanna do to steady our glucose levels is have a savory breakfast instead of a sweet one. So we wanna have a breakfast that contains protein, you know, like eggs, fish, meat, protein powder, maybe some fat like the avocado, that's fantastic, and maybe some fiber if you wanna add some veggies in there. And then any sort of, like, bread or starches or potatoes should be there just for taste.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
It should not be the centerpiece of the breakfast. And then, importantly, for a savory breakfast that keeps your glucose level steady, we shouldn't eat anything sweet at all for breakfast, except whole fruit if we want some.
- 1:09:26 – 1:11:54
Why you should be drinking vinegar
- JIJessie Inchauspé
thrive.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You have these 10 hacks in your book, and, um, there was one in particular that I... You know, there was nine of them that I thought, "I can do this," and then there was this other one where I was like-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Let me guess.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Which one do you think it is?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs) Um, I, actually, I would say the vinegar one, is that the one?
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're such a weirdo. How did you know? Why did you ask me-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
I'm actually psychic.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... to drink vinegar before I eat? Can you imagine? (laughs) Can you imagine me going to a restaurant and being like, "Hi, could I just get a glass of vinegar, please, before I..."
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Well, actually, it's happening more and more, Steven.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why, why are people doing this to themselves?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Okay, because... Okay, by the way-
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's my line, by the way. (laughs)
- JIJessie Inchauspé
I, I hear you. And by the way, the hacks are there for people to pick and choose from.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
You're supposed to, like, compose with them as you wish. It is not... You don't have to do everything all the time, you don't have to do any of them if you don't want to. It's like information from the science, and then you d- decide what you do with it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hack seven, drink vinegar before you eat.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah. So the scientific studies show us that if we have one tablespoon of vinegar in a tall glass of water, so this is a pretty, this is a pretty good size. One tablespoon of vinegar in a tall glass of water before a meal can reduce the glucose spike of the meal by up to 30% and the insulin spike by up to 20%, which is important because, you know, insulin is also something we wanna manage. And you might be wondering like, "How the heck does that work?" Well, vinegar contains another cool molecule called acetic acid. And acetic acid does two main things that help our glucose levels. Number one, you know how I explained that starches, they break down into glucose when you digest them? Well, acetic acid slows down that process. So it slows down how quickly, for example, a piece of bread is gonna break down into individual molecules. So it slows down how quickly the molecules of glucose arrive in your bloodstream, which is again what we want. We wanna slow down the velocity. And second, acetic acid goes to your muscles and it tells your muscles to soak up glucose as it arrives into your body. So glucose arrives more slowly in the bloodstream, and muscles soak it up as it gets there. So those two actions reduce the spike of the meal without you needing to change any part of that meal. So if you wanted to have that cookie and you wanted to have the cookie without setting off a glucose rollercoaster, without setting off that sugar addiction, having a vinegar drink before would be a really good idea.
- 1:11:54 – 1:14:46
You have to be doing this after you eat
- SBSteven Bartlett
I'll think about it. Um, moving on. Hack eight, after you eat, move.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
People say this, you know, they, they go for walks and stuff after, like, the Christmas meal or whatever. But why, why is that, from a scientific perspective, important?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
It's interesting because it's been around culturally for a very long time, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Like the post-meal walk, et cetera. Even the veggie starter. I mean, in France we, you know, we have this thing called cruute, which is raw veggies at the beginning of a meal. We've had it for forever, you know, just culturally. In Italy, antipasti, veggies first, et cetera. So it's cool to see that a lot of these hacks have been around for a very long time, but now we understand how they work and so we're able to be like, "Oh, I want that back in my life." So moving after eating. So your muscles, when they contract, they need energy to do so. And the first place they look for this energy is in the glucose in your bloodstream. So we can use that to our advantage. The more muscle is contracting, the more glucose it needs. So if we use our muscles for 10 minutes after a meal, some of the glucose from that meal will make its way to your muscles instead of s- just standing there and creating a spike. And so you can use your muscles in lots of different ways. You can go for a walk, you can clean your apartment, you can play with your dog, you can go to the gym, and you can do my new favorite thing, which is, let's do it together, Steven. So put your feet on the ground-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... and do some calf raises. Do you know what that is? You just, like, go onto your tippy toes-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... and back down. Calf raises, and you feel your calf contracting.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
So this is actually a really effective way to get your muscles to soak up glucose, because there's a muscle in your calf called the soleus muscle which is really extra good at soaking up glucose. So for example, after a meal, you're at work.You're at your desk, you wanna reduce the spike, do some calf raises like this. Nobody will see and you'll be helping him because that was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
People are gonna think I'm so weird. They're gonna see me have this shot of vinegar and then sit here-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... like I'm, like I'm... like there's something in my shoes.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah, but then they're gonna be like, "Damn, Steven is doing so great. Look, he's 65 and still kayaking."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Like, then they might think they should've done the same.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's a good trade-off.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, I'm happy to take the weirdness. Um, that, that's really interesting 'cause w- when I think about glucose spikes and movement and stuff and what you've just said there, my th- my mind went straight to being sat on a plane.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Which I do a lot of, and they bring the food down, they bring the dessert trolley down or whatever, and then you, you eat the... Not me, of course, but someone else, a friend of mine.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
He ate the cookie on the dessert trolley, and then he sat there for 10 hours because he was on a plane.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That sounds like a fucking nightmare.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Well, for your glucose it's not great, but there's lots of things you can do. So first, don't have the cookie on an empty stomach. Have it after some other food. For example, maybe you bought, like, some nuts-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... at the airport. Have some of those nuts before the cookie. That's what I call putting clothing on your carbs. And then you can do some calf raises in a plane, right?
- 1:14:46 – 1:24:24
Your perfect diet
- JIJessie Inchauspé
teeth.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Okay. Okay. Generally, do you have a, like a hypothesis or an idea or a system for when you travel and what you eat?
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Yes. If I'm traveling, I always make sure I have a really, really good savory breakfast, even if I'm not hungry-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
... before I leave for the plane. So, I have, like, my favorite, like, two egg omelet with feta and tomatoes is my favorite thing to make.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is your general, what is your general... Walk me through your food. You know, I-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
My habits?
- SBSteven Bartlett
... earlier when I was wa- I was watching your f- um, some of your interviews, and the most replayed part of one of your interviews was you describing what you ate.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
No way.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yes.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Wow.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It was, it was an hour and a half long interview, and at the very, very end of it, the interviewer asked you what you ate o- on a daily basis.
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Wow.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that was the highest spike-
- JIJessie Inchauspé
Oh.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in the, in the replay time, so I thought, you know, for clearly that's what people wanna know at home right now.
Episode duration: 1:35:53
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