Zuck on:
* Llama 4, benchmark gaming, open vs source
* Intelligence explosion, business models for AGI
* DeepSeek/China, export controls, & Trump
* Orion glasses, AI relationships, and not getting reward-hacking by our tech
𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒
* Transcript: https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/mark-zuckerberg-2
* Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast/id1516093381?i=1000705423020
* Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7Brv4vg9P8a8CNvAN5UsMv?si=d548a8aef39e4b65
𝐒𝐏𝐎𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐑𝐒
* Scale is building the infrastructure for safer, smarter AI. Scale’s Data Foundry gives major AI labs access to high-quality data to fuel post-training, while their public leaderboards help assess model capabilities. They also just released Scale Evaluation, a new tool that diagnoses model limitations. If you’re an AI researcher or engineer, learn how Scale can help you push the frontier at https://scale.com/dwarkesh.
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To sponsor a future episode, visit https://dwarkesh.com/advertise.
𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒
00:00:00 – How Llama 4 compares to other models
00:12:20 – Intelligence explosion
00:27:22 – AI friends, therapists & girlfriends
00:35:56 – DeepSeek & China
00:40:35 – Open source AI
00:55:01 – Monetizing AGI
00:59:18 – The role of a CEO
01:02:50 – Is big tech aligning with Trump?
01:07:56 – 100x productivity
Dwarkesh Podcast