How to Encourage Independent Play With Lizzie Assa

1. 0:00 – 1:47

   Independent play as a win-win: why this episode matters for parents and kids

   1. BEDr. Becky0:00

      Hi, I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical, actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away. One of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment. So even as we struggle, and even as we are having a hard time on the outside, we remain good inside. I am so excited to have Lizzie Assa on the show today, and I think you're all gonna be really, really excited about this episode because it's all about independent play, and I don't know if I've gotten as many voicemails about anything as I have about the topic of independent play. And if all of you are wondering, all right, Dr. Becky, then why did you not put this episode out sooner, it's because I wanted to have truly the person I trust most in talking about this issue and breaking it down into manageable parts, and today is the day that Lizzie and I could coordinate our schedules. And so this is an episode you're gonna wanna listen to over and over. I'm not even gonna say you're gonna wanna listen to the whole episode because obviously yes, and over and over, and I am just so excited to talk about this important topic. So Lizzie, welcome.

2. 1:47 – 3:44

   Meet Lizzie Assa: play-based learning background and mission

   1. LALizzie Assa1:47

      Thank you. I'm really happy to be here. I can't wait to chat about this. It is absolutely my mission to simplify independent play for parents because we all need a break from that 24/7 loop of parenting, and independent play does just that.

   2. BEDr. Becky2:04

      I mean, I don't know if I do. I love just like, I just love every 24-hour moment-

   3. LALizzie Assa2:09

      [laughs]

   4. BEDr. Becky2:09

      ... like even the 2:00 AMs, you know? But for everyone else out there, this is gonna be really [laughs] helpful. No, I'm 100% joking. So let's start. Lizzie, tell everyone a little bit about who you are and the things that interest you.

   5. LALizzie Assa2:22

      Sure. So my name is Lizzie. I am the founder and creator of The Workspace for Children. And as I said, it's my, really my mission to simplify independent play so that parents can get a break because we all know that when we've had a break to get time back for ourselves, we can show up as a more present version of ourselves and parent the way we really want to be a parent. And further, we can also, we, we all know that when we're present, our kids' behavior is better, our behavior-

   6. BEDr. Becky2:52

      Mm

   7. LALizzie Assa2:52

      ... is better, and life in general just feels better.

   8. BEDr. Becky2:57

      Because I know you pretty well, can you just add on your, I really mean it's like your personal in terms of motherhood and your professional credentials really that give you such a holistic picture around this topic.

   9. LALizzie Assa3:09

      Sure. So I am a mom of three big kids. They are 9, 12, and 14 now, and I am also a former early childhood New York City teacher. Um, I got my master's from the Bank Street School many, many years ago, and had the opportunity to teach in some of the best New York City preschools where I really learned the value of true play-based learning. And I say true play-based learning because I think it's really a buzzword that gets mistaken for a lot of other things.

3. 3:44 – 6:15

   Defining independent play: self-discovery and a mindset (not a specific toy setup)

   1. BEDr. Becky3:44

      Yeah. So let's jump into it, and I know we're gonna get into something else later, but let me say for everyone listening, 'cause this is often someone's question, is it too late? No. Your kid is two, your kid is four, your kid is 10, and you're thinking, "Okay, maybe I missed the boat." We're gonna get into the how of doing this at any age, but let me say from the start it is not too late to build the skill. Let's start with the why. Why, maybe even the what. What is independent play? What does that even mean, and why does it matter?

   2. LALizzie Assa4:18

      Independent play is really about teaching your child to l- learn about themselves. So independent play is the opportunity for everyone to take a break and really learn about who they are.

   3. BEDr. Becky4:36

      I- it's a really interesting way of defining it. I mean, 'cause I think when we think about independent play, if someone said, "Dr. Becky, what's independent play?" I'd be more concrete. But I love your definition so much more 'cause anytime we're doing something new, we have to like really understand what it is and the motivation. In independent play, your child really has the opportunity to learn about themselves. That is, that's just so amazing.

   4. LALizzie Assa4:58

      And I just wanna say, you know, so many people, even as adults, and to your point of it's never too late, even adults are still learning how to play. And so you can always start where you are, whether you have a newborn baby or a five-year-old, or like you said, a 10-year-old. Everyone can learn how to bring back more play into their lives because I think of independent play as more of a mindset.

   5. BEDr. Becky5:23

      Mm.

   6. LALizzie Assa5:23

      So someone might, you know, when we say independent play, you might picture a small child playing with wooden blocks in the playroom and think, "Well, my kid's never gonna do that. My, that's not who my kid is." And if that's not who your kid is, then you're right. That's not how your kid should play independently. Your child is unique, and independent play is the opportunity for you and for them to figure out what makes them tick.

   7. BEDr. Becky5:49

      Mm.

   8. LALizzie Assa5:49

      So independent play for your child might be sitting in the grass poking around looking for bugs, or maybe you have a child who's really into sports, and independent play for them might be playing basketball alone in the driveway while they hone their skill or-

   9. BEDr. Becky6:06

      Mm

   10. LALizzie Assa6:06

       ... work out whatever happened to them that day at school. It doesn't have to just be wooden blocks or fancy sensory stations.

4. 6:15 – 7:23

   Self-directed vs. adult-directed play: why stepping back matters

   1. BEDr. Becky6:15

      Mm. And you've used this term self-directed. It's self-directed play. What's the opposite of that, just so people can understand that?

   2. LALizzie Assa6:25

      So the opposite of self-directed play is when you are, when children are playing someone else's ideas. So say your child says, "Mommy, play with me," and you start acting out the characters-

   3. BEDr. Becky6:39

      Hmm

   4. LALizzie Assa6:39

      ... or you start saying, "Here," and using it as a teaching moment and teaching your child how to build with blocks.

   5. BEDr. Becky6:46

      Hmm.

   6. LALizzie Assa6:46

      Independent play is the opposite of that, because independent play children are using their own experience and their own ideas and implementing them. They are also having the opportunity for that building to fall down, and there's no grown-up there to say, "Hey, honey, let me fix that for you," or, "Don't worry, that's not a big deal." They have that independent time to get upset, decide how long it's gonna take them to stay upset and work through it, and decide what they're gonna do next. Maybe they are gonna be rebuild it, maybe they're not. But the point is, it came from them.

5. 7:23 – 14:22

   Why independent play pays off long-term (and reduces parent burnout now)

   1. BEDr. Becky7:23

      Amazing. And why did this matter so much? Like, why, why does this help? Why is this important?

   2. LALizzie Assa7:31

      I am a huge believer that small changes build big habits.

   3. BEDr. Becky7:36

      Hmm.

   4. LALizzie Assa7:36

      And independent play, carving out time for independent play is one of those small changes you can make in your life today, right now, that will have huge impact and change moving forward into the future. Because not only is it, like I said, gonna give you back time as an adult to fill your own need without someone intruding on every thought and bite you take [laughs] , um, but it's also gonna give your child the opportunity to come up with their own ideas and execute them, and it gives them the opportunity to build a world that they can control. It gives them the time and space to make sense of the world around them or who they are or what's happening.

   5. BEDr. Becky8:23

      It's like their scratch pad or sandbox to, like, just work things out.

   6. LALizzie Assa8:27

      Absolutely. Absolutely.

   7. BEDr. Becky8:29

      And one of the things I love about the way you talk about independent play is, is something you just said, and just for everyone here listening, I think it's so important. This is really a win-win. Like, independent play is so important for your kid, and independent play by your kid is so important for you as a parent, right? And if you're thinking, "Ugh, is that, you know, am I not fulfilling my parental duty?" Or, "What about when my kid says, 'But, but Mom, I don't know what to do with these blocks,' or, 'I don't know what to do with these trucks,' or, 'I don't have any ideas,' or, 'You worked all week and now you won't play with me when I want to play with you.'" We'll get into all those kind of exact moments. But just rest assured, for you to show up as the parent and person you want to be, you cannot continually deplete yourself. And I think so many parents, we get into this calm, calm, calm, calm, calm rage, calm, calm, calm, calm react. It's the buildup of not having 5, 10, 15, 30-minute times in a day where you're basically able to say, "No one is asking and taking from me. And my kids don't ask and take from me 'cause they're bad people. They're kids. But, like, I'm a human being, and I need and I deserve periods of my day where I am not acting as an active caregiver," right?

   8. LALizzie Assa10:01

      Absolutely. And that's exactly what independent play does, and it's cyclical. Because when you as Mom have had even if it was just 15 minutes to breathe, you're gonna come back to the table a completely different parent, and a different person to your partner. You're gonna show up differently there, differently at work, and it's really just about taking that time for yourself. And independent play is great because you can feel good about it.

   9. BEDr. Becky10:35

      You know, I remember many years ago, right, when I just had one child, and, I don't know, he's probably about two. And I remember getting into a thing with my husband, as a lot of us do with our partners, and it was some version of, like, "I don't even understand how you sit on the couch. Like, I have never sat on the couch. Like [laughs] and, you know, and you need to, don't you see this? And what about this? And our son wants to do this, and can't you do this with him?" And, and it was a really interesting reversal. It was some combination of my own therapist and my husband saying, like, "It doesn't have to be either/or, but it's a powerful reframe, Becky, for you to think maybe your problem is that you don't sit on the couch. Like, maybe your husband doesn't have a problem. Like, [laughs] maybe your problem is that you need to be more like him." And it made me think about how important it was to build my son's independent play skill, because if he could play by himself for 10 minutes, or we could work up, and we'll get to this, work up to 10 minutes, 'cause I think this is a huge thing I see with families, too, is they try at first to build the entire skill instead of the steps. And there was a day where I remember sitting on the couch and looking at my husband, and I was like, "You know what? There's something to this. Like, there's something to saying I have time to sit on a couch. Forget you not sitting on the couch. Now we're on the couch together. Like, this is kind of nice." [laughs]

   10. LALizzie Assa11:49

       It really is, and it's also life-changing for everyone involved-

   11. BEDr. Becky11:53

       It is

   12. LALizzie Assa11:53

       ... the entire family unit.

   13. BEDr. Becky11:55

       So this is super important for us, and I really mean this. Sometimes as a parent, even if something wasn't great for our kids but wasn't dangerous, just knowing something is good for us is enough to make a change in your family. I really think we don't remind ourselves of that enough. And this is critical to your kids because, yes, you're seeing them, quote, "play," and play is so valuable. But even if you're someone who's in a family where you say, "Yeah, like, the idea that play is valuable is just not natural to me. Like, it doesn't seem like a good use of time." If you want your 16-year-old To come to you one day and say, "You know what? I had the best idea for the essay assignment I have, and here was my idea, and then I sat down, and then I wrote an outline, and then I researched, and then I actually changed course, and then actually I realized that wasn't the best thing, and I did something else." Do you know where that skill comes that looks like an academic skill? Not from a classroom. That comes from independent play, where a person has practiced over and over noticing their own ideas, thinking those ideas are valuable, putting those valuable ideas into action, and iterating. That is a skill from independent play.

   14. LALizzie Assa13:03

       I mean, that is so much yes. That is so much yes because when children have this unstructured time to work on their own ideas without noise from someone else, that's when they feel safe to take risks, to rework ideas, and to be patient with themselves. I mean, even it plays into even sibling relationships and dynamics. When you have the younger child who is always being upstaged by the older child, or, you know, many of the parents I work with say, "But I don't want my older one always bulldozing the younger one." Well, this is a great opportunity for your younger one to be coming up with their own ideas and leading their own play, and those are skills they're going to take into, back into that sibling relationship of, "Hey, I have a great idea."

   15. BEDr. Becky13:51

       As a next step, and this is something I think you and I are so similar about. We're like, okay, so this is the what, this is the why. Uh, we know we can't end there. Like, we all need the how. Let's break it down. So assume someone listening is rallying around this, and they might even be embarrassed and say, "Oh, Dr. Becky and Lizzie won't believe it. Like, my, my kid won't even do this for one second." So talk to that shame, and can you speak to also some of the first steps?

6. 14:22 – 17:34

   Start with the child you actually have: interests first, not Instagram standards

   1. LALizzie Assa14:22

      Yes. So the first step is to recognize that play looks different for each unique child.

   2. BEDr. Becky14:29

      Mm.

   3. LALizzie Assa14:29

      So stop before you even think to yourself, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna do this." I want you to really think about who your child is as an individual, not who the preschool teacher said they should be or what they should be interested in, or not who you thought they were going to be when they were in your belly. But who are they really, and what actually sparks their interest? Because you might have a child who's not gonna sit quietly and play with blocks, but they love the garbage truck. And they are gonna look out the window at the garbage truck. And so I'm gonna say, hey, start with that. Put a little stool in front of the window, put a toy truck there, and make sure they're there every time the garbage truck shows up. That's gonna spark. You're gonna use who they are, what their strengths and interests are, and build from there.

   4. BEDr. Becky15:21

      So the starting point is really looking internally to your family. There's no step on Google or on your site even. Like, the first step is, is really centering yourself and you and your child. And so what is my child interested in? I go on Instagram, and I see these pictures of some kid in their room for five hours just, you know, playing with a single wooden- [laughs]

   5. LALizzie Assa15:45

      Right

   6. BEDr. Becky15:45

      ... square. I, yeah, right. And just so everyone knows, like, my children do not do that ever. Not, no, okay? Um, but I see that, and that's one version. But it could be my kid is interested in trucks, or my kid loves... What about a kid who like climbing? Like, something very active.

   7. LALizzie Assa16:02

      Yes. So I do call that the active kind of child who plays, and there are some really great ways. So independent play is independent, right? You're not with them. You're not on top of them, and that can feel really tricky for parents who have-

   8. BEDr. Becky16:18

      Mm-hmm

   9. LALizzie Assa16:18

      ... a climber, and that's what, you know, really is... So you're going to first make sure your child has that active time outside to connect with who they are, right? But then you're gonna teach them. You can take really simple things like a roll of masking tape and put a long line, long, complicated lines on the floor with them and let them balance on those lines. Or even better, I like to teach children how to use their toys to act as them. So they might teach their toy how to climb-

   10. BEDr. Becky16:50

       Mm

   11. LALizzie Assa16:50

       ... the climber that they just built or tell the story of themselves at the playground climbing or doing the things that maybe aren't so safe in the apartment or in the home. But they can act that out with their toys.

   12. BEDr. Becky17:06

       Mm. Love that. Okay, so notice your child's interests. Like, we are, this is a strengths kind of based approach, right?

   13. LALizzie Assa17:16

       Absolutely.

   14. BEDr. Becky17:16

       And I, and I do think that's such a powerful reframe because right now if you're thinking, "My kid really struggles to play independently," it's so easy to look at that as a weakness or as a shortcoming, and to just say, "Okay, wait, my kid has interests. Like, uh, my kid is interested in things," and that's, that's where we're gonna start.

7. 17:34 – 19:20

   You don’t need to fill the silence: building early foundations from infancy

   1. LALizzie Assa17:34

      Your child comes into the world inherently knowing how to play. It is the parents, the well-meaning parents who start to make noise and get in their way. So your infant actually... And yes, it's very important to talk and stimulate and interact with your infant, but I know you're probably already doing that. So it's just as crucial to allow your baby time to stare out the window and watch the shadows and see themselves in the mirror or spend those few extra minutes on a blanket or in their crib. That's where they start building those foundational skills, and it takes a lot of pressure off you as a mom to know you don't have to fill the silence every second.

   2. BEDr. Becky18:19

      Yes. You know, I think there's so much guidance out there, right? Talk to your child, engage with your child, connect with your child, and- Uh, I think for some of us, and I remember being like this early on too, we, we almost go to the other extreme, right? And I think every parent here, if you're listening to this, I, I just know you're a parent with such intentionality. It, it almost adds some levity to say like, "Oh, do I wanna really give myself permission to... Like, come a little bit back toward the middle. Like, maybe it's not the extra words and engagement and connection for me my child needs. Maybe it's a little bit less of that to give them, right, more space." And I think we all know also that it's from internalizing and really taking in that we have support that we feel sturdy on our own, or at least some of the times. And independent play, right, is that opportunity for kids to have a little bit more space, and that is so, so important. So okay, so someone listening has said, "Okay, I kinda know..." Uh, let's

8. 19:20 – 23:07

   From zero minutes to a routine: kitchen and animal examples you can copy

   1. BEDr. Becky19:20

      say it's my kid is really interested in kind of kitchens and, you know, kind of stuff like that, and food, and pretend play in that way. They always ask me to play with them. We are at zero minutes, Lizzie. We are at zero. Like, what, what is the next step they could do if they want to institute some type of independent play routine?

   2. LALizzie Assa19:39

      With their child with an interest in the kitchen, which makes sense-

   3. BEDr. Becky19:44

      [laughs]

   4. LALizzie Assa19:44

      ... because that is oftentimes the center of the home and what they see their parent or caregiver doing all the time. So first thing you're gonna do is connect with them around their interest. Sit down with them and ask them, "What do you love about the kitchen? What do you know about the kitchen?" Write down their words, even if they can't read. It doesn't matter. It's just putting your value on their thoughts and interests, where they have the opportunity to become the expert. So first you're just gonna ask them, and notice, "I noticed this when you were in the kitchen. You were so interested when I was pouring the water. I saw you watching. Would you like an opportunity to try that?" Now-

   5. BEDr. Becky20:26

      Mm

   6. LALizzie Assa20:26

      ... you, maybe your child is gonna love a small sensory bin with some water and some pouring. Now, if you're listening and you're like, "No, no, no, no, no, I don't want a mess," you can take a shallow under the bed bin, put it down on a towel, and just put three tiny cups of water, and say yes. Let them pour back and forth with that. Give them the kitchen tools. Give them an apple and let them wash it, eat it. Maybe next they're gonna work towards cutting it and preparing it. But they're gonna learn to see themselves as the expert using those tools.

   7. BEDr. Becky21:03

      Okay, let's say someone's listening and they're thinking, "My three-year-old daughter loves animals. Loves animals. I know that. That's an interest. And right now her independent play is zero. Zero minutes." So what comes next?

   8. LALizzie Assa21:19

      Okay, so if you have a little one who loves animals, they're probably asking you to constantly play puppy or pretend to be the lion, and that's really exhausting and-

   9. BEDr. Becky21:31

      [laughs]

   10. LALizzie Assa21:32

       ... can be so hard as a parent, right? Like, you wanna support their interests, but you don't wanna play lions, right? And you want them to play independently. So naturally, you're probably going to have, you know, all the animal books, and you've probably taken them to the zoo. You've done all those things. But now we wanna use those interests to build independent play. So when you come back from the zoo, instead of being one and done, great, now you're gonna go into to quiet time, and you are going to put out her animal toys, put out a few magnetic tiles. Just simplify. Don't, you don't need a play room. You don't need... Literally put down a beach towel, and on it put a bunch of Magna-Tiles and a bunch of animal toys and maybe her favorite zoo book. And then step back and watch. You're going to-

   11. BEDr. Becky22:18

       Mm

   12. LALizzie Assa22:18

       ... watch your child make sense of the experience they just had at the zoo. They're going to replay and process everything they just learned at the zoo.

   13. BEDr. Becky22:27

       Mm.

   14. LALizzie Assa22:28

       So it's very simple, but you're going to take, make your area where you'd like them to have independent play to be simple and reflect their current interests.

   15. BEDr. Becky22:41

       Great. Okay. So someone's said, "Okay, I can do that," and then their daughter's like, "Mommy, be lion. Be lion. Be lion." Uh, "Yeah, be the lion," right? What, right? 'Cause I think a lot of kids when they're starting, like, they don't, they don't always just take to it, right? So if y- if you have a taker, like amazing, just enjoy, right? If you don't and you have a child who's demanding that interaction or asking it, for it, what, what then?

9. 23:07 – 24:36

   Handling ‘Play with me!’: quiet time vs. independent play and what to say in the moment

   1. LALizzie Assa23:07

      Well, I think we need to differentiate first between quiet time and independent play, right? So-

   2. BEDr. Becky23:11

      Okay

   3. LALizzie Assa23:12

      ... let's do that. So if you are just looking for a few minutes of independent play as practice, right, you're gonna realize your chi- You wanna start where your child is, okay?

   4. BEDr. Becky23:23

      Mm.

   5. LALizzie Assa23:23

      So that means your child is used to you playing all the time.

   6. BEDr. Becky23:27

      Mm-hmm.

   7. LALizzie Assa23:27

      Your child is used to being where you are. You can't just suddenly say, "It's quiet time, where you're gonna go in your room and play independently for 30 minutes." That's not gonna work.

   8. BEDr. Becky23:37

      You can't.

   9. LALizzie Assa23:38

      You can't. It won't work.

   10. BEDr. Becky23:40

       [laughs] It won't work, okay. [laughs]

   11. LALizzie Assa23:42

       It won't work. But what you can do is say, "I'm gonna set up this towel with your animal toys. I'm gonna do my work while you do yours."

   12. BEDr. Becky23:52

       Mm.

   13. LALizzie Assa23:52

       "When you say, 'Mommy, be the lion,' I'm gonna remind you, 'Oh, it's not my turn right now to be lion. It's your turn to be lion.'"

   14. BEDr. Becky24:01

       Mm.

   15. LALizzie Assa24:02

       "When it's over," and you can give them either a visual or set a timer, something so that they know they're gonna come back to you, "that's when I wanna hear all the things you played. I wanna hear all about what your lion did." So there's still an opportunity to connect around the independent play even if you are not in the play. So parents often feel guilty, you know, not playing with their kids and having their child play independently. You can connect with your child around independent play even if you're not playing with them

10. 24:36 – 27:35

    Expect pushback like swim lessons: building the ‘some’ before the ‘all’

    1. BEDr. Becky24:36

       And, and I'll add some things to this too, in that I would say as a parent, like I'm allowed to make decisions also that my kid doesn't really like, even at first, for a little while. That's okay. It goes back to, I think, what we started, and I think, [laughs] you know, I, I always think about this with Everything Good Inside, and someone said this to me, Lizzie. [laughs] They say, "Like, I don't even know if you care about kids." They're like, they were laughing. They're like, "I think you just care about parents, like feeling better about ourselves and feeling more empowered to make decisions that help ourselves, and, like, you get our attention through kids, but it's not really about kids." [laughs] And I was like, "Can't two things be true? Um, can't we, can't we care about both?" But, but I think it's, it's something I'll in part own. Like, where is this idea that if my child says, "No, I don't wanna do that," that I have to say, "Okay, fine, we're not doing it," or I become a bad parent if I kind of continue or work toward that new goal or really skill, right? 'Cause independent play is a skill. If you thought it was so important for your kid to, I don't know, l- let's say take swimming, right? Like, no one learns how to swim in one day, and I know a lot of parents who think, "Yeah, my kid doesn't like swimming. We kind of manage that. We go in the water, we go out." But my kid's protest isn't the thing that determines whether I'm going to continue helping them, in the pace that works, learn how to swim, right? Like that, I'm still gonna teach them how to learn how to swim, and I think that thinking about independent play that way, right, if your kid says, "No, I don't wanna learn how to swim," I don't know of any parents who think, "I'm a horrible parent for wanting them to learn how to swim." I think parents think they're, this is a really important skill. It's messy. I, I would love it if my kid just took to it. Okay, so it's messy. But I didn't become a bad parent by continuing to do swim lessons, and my kid's not a bad kid for protesting. We're just, we're working through it. Like, would you say, is that, is that similar to what you'd say about independent play?

    2. LALizzie Assa26:36

       I think that's such a good example, and the piece that's even before that is that parent goes into the swimming lesson expecting their child-

    3. BEDr. Becky26:44

       Yes

    4. LALizzie Assa26:44

       ... to push back.

    5. BEDr. Becky26:45

       Yes, they do.

    6. LALizzie Assa26:46

       And you have to know if you are someone who has played with your child and interacted with your child all the time, you can't just suddenly flip the switch.

    7. BEDr. Becky26:55

       Mm.

    8. LALizzie Assa26:55

       You have to expect the pushback. You have to be present in the messy because the magic happens on the other side of that. It is rarely automatic.

    9. BEDr. Becky27:05

       And, and the goals, I think, are so important. I, I keep thinking about this word some. It is like the goals of some. I think so many of us unconsciously, whatever our goal is, it's all, right? So my kid's going to learn how to do independent play. Like, some. Like, what if my goal, if you're starting at zero minutes, could that timer be, I don't know, 30 or 60 seconds day one, just to get on a motivation cycle? Like, is that something you would tell a parent to do? Like, how small can you start?

11. 27:35 – 31:11

    Pre-work and identity-building: ‘I am as I am seen’ + calling out independence

    1. LALizzie Assa27:35

       You can start so small. You can start even before you start-

    2. BEDr. Becky27:39

       Mm

    3. LALizzie Assa27:39

       ... by noticing what your child is already doing independently and calling it out. So if you start to observe your child the way you're already gonna do, 'cause you're gonna observe them for their interests, you're also gonna watch, and it could be literally that they watched TV by themselves. That's fine. You might have a child who's always following you around, but this time they watched TV while you ran downstairs and switched the laundry. You're gonna come up and say, "Hey, I just switched the laundry, and you stayed watching your show, and you did that independently."

    4. BEDr. Becky28:10

       Mm.

    5. LALizzie Assa28:11

       All of those things you're noticing them do independently or without help, you're gonna call those things out. You are going to help them see themselves as becoming an expert in being independent.

    6. BEDr. Becky28:26

       I love that priming and, you know, one of my favorite quotes about children and child development is this idea of I am as I am seen. If you think about your kid, like the way they develop their identity is through reflecting back the image we show them, right? So I am-

    7. LALizzie Assa28:43

       That's right

    8. BEDr. Becky28:43

       ... as I am seen. If we think about what we say to our kids a lot when we're frustrated that they don't play independently, and I'm gonna, you know, join the choir here. I've said this too, and that's why I know the words. It's, "You never leave me alone. Kids your age play by themselves. Why can't you? You can't do one thing by yourself." Well, first of all, we've all been there. Doesn't mean any of us did such big damage. I think, though, if we zoom out, we think, oh, my goodness, that's interesting. I probably can't really expect my child to build a new part of themselves, that independent part, if what I'm reflecting back to them is that they're not capable of being that way. And what you're saying, it's such a low-lift way to start a new skill. It's like the pre-work, just finding a time in the day. Let's say you're gonna start this new independent play quiet time practice, which is not just self-directed play. It's a time in the day when your kid is away from you playing. How cool if in the week before you even do the first minute, every day you find a time to say, "Wow, I notice you did X by yourself. You're a kid who's really capable of-

    9. LALizzie Assa29:47

       Yeah

    10. BEDr. Becky29:47

        ... doing things by yourself. That's really cool." Like, just once a day to kind of plant that idea, right? That's what you're saying. You could even start there.

    11. LALizzie Assa29:54

        Exactly, and when you see your kids even, say the example of the garbage truck, starting to say things like, "Wow, you know a lot about garbage trucks."

    12. BEDr. Becky30:03

        Yes.

    13. LALizzie Assa30:04

        "You are someone who's learning so much about how they work." So you're gonna keep priming them to see themselves as the expert on their own interests and as someone who can independently seek that. And that may sound kind of ridiculous when you say to a two-year-old or a three-year-old, "You know a lot about..." But when you step back, they actually really do. Think about how much time your child spends sitting in the stroller or the car seat observing the world. They actually know a lot about a lot of things.

    14. BEDr. Becky30:40

        It's, it's really this skill is coming from building competence and confidence, right? And that's, uh, that's also a lifelong skill as you're, you know, kind of encouraging independent play. Who doesn't want to be encouraging confidence at every moment in their child's development? Okay, so we've noticed their interest. Maybe I've planted these seeds about how much they know, how capable they are of being independent. Then let's just say there's actually a day that you're like, "Today's the day. It's Monday," and, you know, at 12:30 or whatever it is, "This

12. 31:11 – 38:03

    Launching quiet time with clear messaging, authentic selling, and a pushback plan

    1. BEDr. Becky31:11

       is the time I'm gonna really start this quiet time routine. I've heard about this. I, I need this [laughs] in my life." You know, one of the things I think about a lot in communicating with my kids is I need to be really clear, especially if it's something that they might have mixed feelings about, right? Like, I always think, right, Brene Brown always says that, "Clear is kind," right? It's like the kindest thing to do is be clear and to own something. I think it's when we're really ambivalent or we even almost, like, ask for our kids' permission, it's really dysregulating. [laughs] I think, like, a two-year-old's like, "Why are you asking me for permission about anything?" You know?

    2. LALizzie Assa31:45

       And that's scary-

    3. BEDr. Becky31:46

       Uh-huh

    4. LALizzie Assa31:46

       ... for kids.

    5. BEDr. Becky31:47

       That is so scary, right? So when I go out to dinner with my husband or with friends, my kids say, "Well, why are you going to dinner instead of putting me to bed?" I always say, "Look, I love being your mom and I love putting you to bed some nights. I also love being with my friends and having time with them when we're not with our kids. That's also really important to me." Just like, boom, like, that is just true. Versus if I say to them there, "Can you just let me go out one night?" [laughs] Like, that is a real role reversal. And so when it comes to independent play, we don't wanna say to our kids, "Look, I just need some time where I'm not with you, and you need to let me do that, so you're gonna start..." No. No, no, no, no, no. We wanna be really direct and clear. So I, I don't think there's one way to say it. Lizzie, how would you... If this is the first day a family's doing it, how would you say it?

    6. LALizzie Assa32:35

       I would say, "We're gonna try something new and kind of grown-up."

    7. BEDr. Becky32:40

       Hmm.

    8. LALizzie Assa32:41

       "I've really noticed that you are learning how to do things on your own, including learning how to play." Then you can decide what you're gonna call it. We call it quiet time. You call it, you know, whatever you want. And you're gonna say, "You don't take a nap anymore, and so now that you're growing up, instead you're going to have this thing called quiet time," and then you're gonna lay out for them what that means. "That means this is a time for just you. You don't have to share with your sister. You can do your own ideas." You know, you really wanna sell it, but authentically-

    9. BEDr. Becky33:16

       Mm-hmm

    10. LALizzie Assa33:16

        ... with truth.

    11. BEDr. Becky33:17

        Mm-hmm.

    12. LALizzie Assa33:17

        You're also gonna say, "This is new. I'm still learning, and you're still learning."

    13. BEDr. Becky33:22

        Hmm.

    14. LALizzie Assa33:22

        "We're gonna work on this together." You're not just gonna throw them in their room and close the door and call it a day.

    15. BEDr. Becky33:27

        [laughs]

    16. LALizzie Assa33:27

        You're not doing that.

    17. BEDr. Becky33:29

        Mm-hmm.

    18. LALizzie Assa33:29

        So you're going the same way you're gonna prepare yourself. "This might be tricky. We're gonna learn this together. Here's how it's gonna work. Inside your room, I put your favorite animals and your favorite Magna-Tiles, and you have your books. You might decide you just wanna lay on your bed the whole time, but you get to pick because it's your quiet time. You might decide to build with Magna-Tiles, but you get to pick. Mommy's not in charge. You're in charge of what you do." So you really wanna sell them on this time of getting to know themselves. Now, on the flip side of that for you is to prepare yourself for pushback. So what are you gonna say when they come out of their room? You need to be able to say in your head, "My child is going to come out of their room." They need to know, they need... It's their job, right, to test the limits to make sure they're there. They've never done this before.

    19. BEDr. Becky34:18

        Mm-hmm.

    20. LALizzie Assa34:19

        So you need to prep yourself in your mind of, "What am I gonna say and what am I gonna do?" so that you can actually respond to them instead of reacting from a place of fear or guilt.

    21. BEDr. Becky34:28

        And, like, there's so many different scenarios, but words I know I can share that I think are always good to have in our back pocket is even if it all goes awry that first day, words like, "This was really tricky today. We're gonna try it again tomorrow."

    22. LALizzie Assa34:42

        Yep.

    23. BEDr. Becky34:42

        Always good words, right? And going back to that idea of I am as I am seen, I think about the role a lot of parents in holding hope, right? This idea of we have to see our kids kind of as capable of making a change before they're able to make that change. And so saying to a kid, "We're gonna try it again tomorrow," or, "I have a feeling tomorrow it's gonna go a little bit more smoothly," or, "I have a feeling by the end of this week it's gonna get a little easier," like, we have to be that type of leader, right? Imagine being in a hard day at work, and if the CEO of your company [laughs] was like, "You always do everything wrong, and you always mess up every project," versus, "Okay, today was tricky, and I have a feeling by the end of the week, uh, you're really gonna make some progress on this." Like-

    24. LALizzie Assa35:27

        Yes

    25. BEDr. Becky35:27

        ... that person just single-handedly changed the trajectory of your work-

    26. LALizzie Assa35:32

        Yeah

    27. BEDr. Becky35:32

        ... because they held that vision of you, that hope, and we need to do that for our kids.

    28. LALizzie Assa35:37

        So another way you can really prime them is by saying, "You might build something and wanna come show me. Here's what's gonna happen. If you forget and you come show me, you, you're, you might forget that it's quiet time. This is new. I'm gonna say, 'Wait, don't tell me. Don't tell me. I wanna hear all about it when quiet time is over. Don't clean it up. I wanna come into your room when quiet time's over, and I wanna listen to just you tell me about the building that just you made.'" And then they are gonna come. They are gonna come because they're gonna forget. And you might say things like, "I know it's hard to wait. This is so different," things like that. And keep, build them for success. So you're not gonna ask them to wait 20 minutes. You might wait one minute, or you know your child best, but build on what they already can do.

    29. BEDr. Becky36:26

        Exactly, and I think that timeline is so important for everyone listening, right? If, if your child did just become an independent swimmer, let's say they're relatively safe, right, and you're still watching them, I don't think you're expecting your kid to do 50 laps Right? Like, if they just became capable of swimming across the side of the pool that was, you know, not the, as far of a distance, if they then did the longer distance lap, one lap is a lot. Like, you have to work up to do two laps, to do four laps, and if you said to a kid right away, "Okay, let me see 20 laps," well, we're not just not setting our kid up to build that muscle, right? They haven't gotten there, but that doesn't mean there's nothing. It just means we have to do some. And, you know, biologically, I always think our body really builds on motivation. I often think just it's about doing that first small step of anything new. When we then are able to say to ourselves, "Ha, I did that new thing," then we can do a little bit more, right? We have to just build the motivation. So for everyone who wants to have a quiet time, independent play routine, you have all this information, and Lizzie's gonna share how to get more because there's actually so much more nuance that we just couldn't get to and is really, really important. I think something to come back to is, okay, let me take away the all goal, that beautiful 45-minute, you know, two-hour time period I want to myself. [laughs] Okay, maybe we'll get there, but what's the some, just the little bit, and how can I help build my child's motivation through building their sense of capability a little bit at a time? Because when we feel capable, then we can do more of that thing.

13. 38:03 – 38:45

    After quiet time: reconnect, celebrate the idea (not the duration), and let creations live

    1. LALizzie Assa38:03

       That's right. And at the end of quiet time, you're going to really connect on their success, whether it was a minute or 10 minutes. You are going to go all in on what was their idea. Even if their idea was laying on their bed, lay on their bed next to them. Experience that with them. Understand what it feels like to be them in their quiet time. If your kid's a little bit older, they're probably annoyed that they have to always clean up the playroom, or share with their siblings, or they may have a baby sibling who's always knocking down their work. So for quiet time, if you have the space, even a small space that's just for them, say, "Hey, you can leave this up until tomorrow and work on it some more." They don't get to do that in other areas.

14. 38:45 – 42:53

    Where to get more help: Lizzie’s course + Dr. Becky’s closing and community resources

    1. BEDr. Becky38:45

       Yes. Love that. So Lizzie, tell people who are probably thinking right now, "Okay, yes, like, I actually feel like I need to do this. I want to do this. I deserve this. My kid deserves this. Everybody wins," and I'm someone also who I, I just like, like, a guide. Like, I just need the thing next to me. I need all the details, right? I'm like that too when I'm trying something new. So where can someone go to get more information, to get more support, and to get more from you?

    2. LALizzie Assa39:12

       Sure. So you can find me on Instagram at The Workspace for Children. In my bio, you can click the link, and I actually have a course, an audio course that is, like, very short clips. I mean, I'm telling you, you could just listen to these while you're brushing your teeth, and it's going to actually give you the step-by-step of how to set up your child for a quiet time and independent play routine, what to do when it doesn't work, what to do when it does work and you wanna really build on that, and really just how to learn more about who your child is as a person who learns and plays. And I'm actually gonna set up a code for you when this goes live as MOREPLAY just for these amazing Good Inside parents if they wanna learn more about independent play, and just to remember that independent play is a practice. It is an ongoing practice, just like meditation. It is not something that you become, that you just master and it's over. It's ongoing for your child's whole life.

    3. BEDr. Becky40:12

       Lizzie, thank you so much. This is such an important episode full of so many, like, such nuggets that I know will be usable over and over again. So thank you for sharing so much knowledge with all of us.

    4. LALizzie Assa40:25

       Thanks for having me. What an honor.

    5. BEDr. Becky40:27

       [gentle music] Thanks for listening to Good Inside. I love co-creating episodes with you based on the real-life tricky situations in your family. To share what's happening in your home, you can call 646-598-2543 or email a voice note to goodinsidepodcast@gmail.com. There are so many more strategies and tips I want to share with you and so many Good Inside parents I want you to meet. I'm beyond excited that we now have a way to connect and learn together. Head to goodinside.com to learn more about Good Inside Membership. I promise you, you're going to love it. It's totally game-changing. And if you're not already receiving my free weekly email, go to goodinside.com to sign up. You don't wanna miss it. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Mary Kelly. Our senior producer is Beth Rowe, and our executive producers are Erica Belsky and me. If you enjoyed this episode, please do take a moment to rate and review it, or share this episode with a friend or family member as a way to start an important conversation. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. [keyboard clacking] Why is it so hard to find reliable answers to parenting questions? How is it in 2022 parents still search on Google for answers from strangers? Well, now there's a better way. Introducing the Good Inside Membership, an expert-guided, community-powered platform redefining modern parenting. In our library, you'll find hundreds of bite-sized videos, articles, scripts, and workshops tackling the trickiest parenting topics, and it doesn't stop here. We've created a private community guided by me, Dr. Becky, and coaches trained in the Good Inside parenting method. Here you can ask questions, connect with other parents, or attend a live event on a topic that matters to you. This is the parenting handbook that doesn't exist. This is parenting advice at your fingertips, where you need it, when you need it the most. This is Good Inside Membership.

Episode duration: 43:13