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Good Inside with Dr. BeckyGood Inside with Dr. Becky

I Needed Proof I Was a Good Mom

You love your baby more than anything. So why does it sometimes feel like your baby… doesn’t like you? In this episode, Dr. Becky talks with therapist, author, and mom of two Erin Schlozman about the moment early motherhood cracked open everything she thought she knew about competence, control, and what it means to be “good” at something. Erin came into motherhood as someone who always hit the milestones: good grades, grad school, career, marriage. Then came a one-month milestone photo with her newborn son — and instead of the sweet picture she imagined, both she and her baby ended up crying on the nursery floor. Together, Dr. Becky and Erin unpack the disorientation of new parenthood: the feeling that your baby’s crying is somehow a reflection of you, the pressure to “get it right,” and the clarifying realization that motherhood doesn’t follow a linear path. Thank you to our partners for making this episode possible: - [Once Upon a Farm:](https://onceuponafarmorganics.com/) Use the code GOODINSIDE for 40% off your first subscription - [Coterie](https://www.coterie.com/): Get 20% off with the code GOODINSIDEBABY20 - [Airbnb](https://click.pscrb.fm/2f): Host your home or book your next stay on Airbnb

Dr. Becky KennedyhostErin Schlozmanguest
May 28, 202628mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:00

    Intro

    1. BK

      [gentle music]

  2. 0:00 – 1:33

    Why your baby won’t “be nice to you”: naming the taboo new-parent thought

    1. BK

      I'm really glad you're here. This is Rattled, a show for when new parenthood shakes you. And if you're new here, here's what we do. We take the thoughts that show up in new parenthood, the ones that feel too big, too scary, or maybe too shameful to say out loud, and we talk about them, and we sit with them together. Today's thought is one that so many new parents carry, and they never say it out loud, 'cause as soon as they do, they think that is an absurd thing to think, but it keeps on coming up in their brain. Today, we're exploring the thought, "Can you please just be nice to me?" Your baby is crying. Your baby is fussing. Your baby's not sleeping. And somehow it all becomes about if they can be nice to you. "Can you do this for me?" Which obviously comes out of frustration and desperation and not knowing what to do next. [sighs] In this episode, we're going to slow down that thought together, and we're going to hear from a mom who knows that particular struggle from the inside. And we're going to make that thought feel a little less confusing and definitely a lot less lonely. Today's voice belongs to Erin Schlozman. She's a therapist. She's the author of the new book, The Myth of the Perfect Mom, and she's a mom of two. [gentle music] Who was Erin Schlozman before her first baby arrived?

  3. 1:33 – 3:38

    Meet Erin: high-achieving, certain, and ready to “nail” motherhood

    1. ES

      Yes. So I was very certain. I was very driven, in a different way than motherhood, than-

    2. BK

      Uh-huh. Sure

    3. ES

      ... in motherhood. I married a nice guy. I had a good career. We were living in a beautiful place. I was like, "I got this. I'm accomplished in the ways that I want to be accomplished. I know what I'm working towards. Let's have a baby. This feels like the perfect time to have a baby."

    4. BK

      I'm ready.

    5. ES

      Yes. Like, "I'm ready."

    6. BK

      Uh-huh.

    7. ES

      "Let's do this," was not-

    8. BK

      Yeah, we'll get there.

    9. ES

      Cliff's Notes. [laughs]

    10. BK

      We'll get there.

    11. ES

      [laughs] Yes.

    12. BK

      We all know how the story ends.

    13. ES

      Yes, yes.

    14. BK

      I mean, not ends, but we know the, the next chapter.

    15. ES

      How it goes.

    16. BK

      But we're not-

    17. ES

      Yes

    18. BK

      ... at that chapter yet.

    19. ES

      Yes.

    20. BK

      We're at the pre-baby chapter, and-

    21. ES

      Yes

    22. BK

      ... you know, you said something that, I don't know, my brain just latched onto.

    23. ES

      Sure.

    24. BK

      "Who was I before baby?" Certain.

    25. ES

      Yes.

    26. BK

      C- ca- what other example comes to mind about that? Nothing to do with the baby. Like, where did that certainty come up and feel like a part of id- your identity-

    27. ES

      Yeah

    28. BK

      ... before the baby?

    29. ES

      So in every area of my life, I'd been really high-achieving. I did well in grad school. I passed board exams. I got married when I was supposed to get married.

    30. BK

      Mm.

  4. 3:38 – 4:48

    The myth that motherhood is innate (not a skill set)

    1. BK

      Did you, did you assume anything about being a mom would come naturally?

    2. ES

      I thought all of it would come naturally.

    3. BK

      Oh, say more.

    4. ES

      Yeah, so I think-

    5. BK

      [laughs]

    6. ES

      ... I have a mom who's very mommy. [laughs] Like, she's-

    7. BK

      Yeah

    8. ES

      ... like your very typical, like, my dad went to work, and my mom, like, raised my sister and I, and she was so good at it and flawless and made it look easy.

    9. BK

      Mm.

    10. ES

      And same with her mom. And so I just thought that... I never thought of motherhood as a set of skills. I thought of it as just, like, an innate quality that you are-

    11. BK

      Yeah

    12. ES

      ... good at-

    13. BK

      Yeah

    14. ES

      ... um, that you just, like, are handed a baby, and you know what to do.

    15. BK

      Yeah.

    16. ES

      And because nothing up until that point had told me I couldn't do it-

    17. BK

      That's right

    18. ES

      ... I was faced with the reality that not all things come that naturally. [laughs]

    19. BK

      Yeah, I, I'm just thinking about the word friction. Like, I don't think a lot of us imagine that as we become a mom or, or a dad, there's just gonna be friction in that identity.

    20. ES

      Mm.

    21. BK

      Like, what is this like? I don't know how that feels. I'm not sure how to tackle that. Like, we often don't imagine... There's something frictionless-

    22. ES

      Yeah

    23. BK

      ... about the image. What was the most surprising thing in terms of how you felt those early weeks?

  5. 4:48 – 6:19

    Feeding reality check: nursing and the first big learning curve

    1. ES

      Nursing.

    2. BK

      Ooh, say more.

    3. ES

      Um, so I birthed both of my babies in baby-friendly hospitals, which means there is a nurse or a lactation consultant that comes around and is basically like, "You're going to nurse. We are going to do this. It is my job to help you, help you do this." Um, and I thought that you're just handed this little baby, and it's hungry, and you put it to your breast, and it eats, and that's just not usually the case.

    4. BK

      Mm.

    5. ES

      Um, and I think that was the first, for me, that was the first part of early parenting where I was like, "Oh, there's a learning curve here. Like, this doesn't just happen, and it may work, and it may not work," and that's where the s- that's where the certainty of my personality moved into the flexibility-

    6. BK

      Mm

    7. ES

      ... of my personality and the surrender of my personality.

    8. BK

      Yeah.

    9. ES

      Um, because there's no s- there's no certain when you become a parent. There just isn't. And the need for contr- it's like, this doesn't-

    10. BK

      Yeah

    11. ES

      ... happen that way.

    12. BK

      You're saying the feeding journey was maybe the most surprising around, like, what I want or-

    13. ES

      Yeah

    14. BK

      ... what people say. Like, it doesn't always go exactly that way.

    15. ES

      Yes.

    16. BK

      And I need to be prepared for a-

    17. ES

      Yes

    18. BK

      ... multitude-

    19. ES

      Yes

    20. BK

      ... of options-

    21. ES

      Yes

    22. BK

      ... and maybe I wish someone told me that earlier

    23. ES

      I had no idea. There was just this expectation from the people around me that I was going to n- nurse, and I did. Um, but that was my, it needed to be my choice.

    24. BK

      Yeah.

    25. ES

      And it was my choice.

  6. 6:19 – 6:58

    The gap between the cute nursery image and messy newborn life

    1. BK

      Did you have any images? Do you remember when you were pregnant, like, "This is what my first week is gonna look like. This is what me and my baby are gonna be doing."

    2. ES

      No-

    3. BK

      Anything you thought

    4. ES

      ... I was never, I was, like, never one of those, I never, like, imagined my wedding.

    5. BK

      Yeah

    6. ES

      I never, like, pictured my wedding dress. I wasn't one of those.

    7. BK

      Yeah.

    8. ES

      Like, his nursery was gorgeous, and it was, like, decorated. And no one told me babies don't, like, he's not gonna sleep in his cr- like, he's not gonna [laughs] sleep in his crib, but good luck.

    9. BK

      Right.

    10. ES

      Um, so there was definitely a piece of me that had imagined it being a certain way-

    11. BK

      Yeah

    12. ES

      ... and then the reality of it, um, was beautiful, but in, like, a way messier m- way than, like, a cute nursery. [laughs]

    13. BK

      Yeah.

  7. 6:58 – 8:17

    Birth and the ‘second night’: “Who said we could do this?”

    1. ES

      Yeah. In October of 2017, I became a mom, and it was during... In Denver, there was, like, a huge butterfly migration and a huge snowstorm, and my midwife at the time was like, "You're going to have a baby this weekend." I was like, "But I'm 37 weeks. What do you mean I'm gonna have a baby this weekend?" And sure enough, the baby-

    2. BK

      Wow

    3. ES

      ... and I'm not, I don't, I'm not, like, woo- I mean, I have-

    4. BK

      Yeah

    5. ES

      ... a therapist. I don't really do the woo, like woo, woo, woo. Um, but then he came, and I remember holding him and calling him a her because I missed my dog, who was a her. [laughs] And then I was like, "What is hap- like, what is-"

    6. BK

      Yes.

    7. ES

      I was like, [laughs] I remember the fir- the second night maybe, the nurse came in, and she was like, "This is gonna be a tough night." Like, generally, the second night is a tough night. And my husband, and she left, and my husband and I looked at each other and we were like, "Who's, who, like, said we could do..." Like-

    8. BK

      Right

    9. ES

      ... "We're responsible for this th- like, w- what-"

    10. BK

      Yeah

    11. ES

      ... "is happening?" [laughs]

    12. BK

      Who put me, who put me in the pilot seat?

    13. ES

      Yes. Like, who said-

    14. BK

      I didn't go to flight school

    15. ES

      ... who said we're the adults? I know.

    16. BK

      Right.

    17. ES

      I'm like, "What?" Yeah.

    18. BK

      Yeah.

    19. ES

      Yeah.

    20. BK

      So I always love to zoom in on moments, like, the most micro.

    21. ES

      Sure.

    22. BK

      So-

    23. ES

      Sure

    24. BK

      ... take me to a moment in a day in the first couple weeks-

    25. ES

      Yeah

    26. BK

      ... that just you still really remember.

  8. 8:17 – 10:35

    The one-month photo meltdown: “Please be nice to me” as a plea for proof

    1. ES

      Okay. So there's s- okay. So my son's first month birthday, this is what I had planned. I had this, like, really cute sticker, and I picked an outfit for him, and I was like, "We're gonna do this."

    2. BK

      Yeah.

    3. ES

      And my mom flew back to Chicago that day, and my husband had gone back to work, so it was just he and I, and I was like, "Buddy, we got this. Like, we got this." And the picture is him red in the face, hysterically crying. I was behind the camera hysterically crying, looking at him being like, "Please be nice to me. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, please, like, please be nice to me." And he, in his obviously non-verbal at the time, was-

    4. BK

      Yeah

    5. ES

      ... probably like, "Lady, I'm hungry and I'm tired, and, like, what are you posing me in pants for?"

    6. BK

      Yeah. [laughs]

    7. ES

      Um, that always-

    8. BK

      Do not like sticker on onesie.

    9. ES

      Yeah, like-

    10. BK

      Do not like sticker on onesie

    11. ES

      ... like, I don't like, I don't like-

    12. BK

      [laughs]

    13. ES

      ... th- I don't like the outfit. Like, what are these-

    14. BK

      Oh, it doesn't feel funny. That never really does

    15. ES

      ... what are these booties?

    16. BK

      No.

    17. ES

      And at the moment, I, it was like I felt like the most raw version of myself I had ever felt. Looking back at it now, I can laugh 'cause it's like he just was tired. [laughs]

    18. BK

      Yeah.

    19. ES

      But I didn't know, you know?

    20. BK

      There's-

    21. ES

      I didn't know

    22. BK

      ... there's no humor in that moment though.

    23. ES

      No.

    24. BK

      Really not.

    25. ES

      No.

    26. BK

      So if, if I ask you to just get a couple more levels specific-

    27. ES

      Sure

    28. BK

      ... like, just literally paint it for me. I wanna picture it. Like, you're on the floor. Is there a blanket spread out? Is he-

    29. ES

      Yeah

    30. BK

      ... propped on the couch? Like, what, what-

  9. 10:35 – 12:58

    Making sense of the thought: when baby behavior becomes a “report card”

    1. BK

      Yeah. [laughs] And so I'm just picturing, 'cause I, I, I still remember that. Like, I just want, I want that cute picture.

    2. ES

      Yeah.

    3. BK

      And to some degree, I, I'm gonna about to say something. I haven't thought it before, so I don't even know if I believe what I'm about to say.

    4. ES

      Process through it, girl. Get it.

    5. BK

      [laughs] It's like I need that picture. It, it, like, s- it's like proof, it feels like proof that, like, I've done the right thing for the last 30 days.

    6. ES

      Yeah, it was, like, proof that I could do it.

    7. BK

      Yeah.

    8. ES

      Yeah.

    9. BK

      Like, I want that picture.

    10. ES

      Yeah.

    11. BK

      It's kind of the picture's saying to me, "Yes, it was rough, but you've got this."

    12. ES

      Yes.

    13. BK

      Like, "You're gonna get there. You're the right parent for this child."

    14. ES

      Yes.

    15. BK

      "You have what it takes."

    16. ES

      I think in retrospect I can see it that way. I think in the moment, I was like, I mean, I literally looked at him and I was like, "Please be nice to me."

    17. BK

      Yes.

    18. ES

      Like, "Please, I don't know what I'm doing." And he... A one-month, a one, a one-month-old. [laughs]

    19. BK

      No, but Erin-

    20. ES

      One-month-old

    21. BK

      ... I love how raw and true that is, and I just think that thought I wanna repeat back 'cause I think about wanting your baby to smile, right, to the degree they-

    22. ES

      Yeah

    23. BK

      ... can smile, which they can't really-

    24. ES

      Right

    25. BK

      ... a four-week-old smile is just gas, right?

    26. ES

      Yes. [laughs]

    27. BK

      But still, smile for the camera. Or like, "Please go to sleep right now," or, "Please latch," or-

    28. ES

      Yes

    29. BK

      ... "Please don't spit up."

    30. ES

      Or latch on, yeah.

  10. 12:58 – 14:29

    Dr. Becky’s direct message: love and convenience are separate

    1. BK

      Quick pause from the conversation. I wanna talk directly to you. If you have had that thought, "Why won't my baby just be nice to me?" I have a few things I wanna say to you. Parenting a new baby is so hard. You love the heck out of this baby, more than maybe you've loved anyone. And when your baby is crying in a moment when you expect calm, or when you want sleep, or when you're looking to cuddle, and it's just not happening, it can feel like an insult. It can feel, even though it's not logical, like your baby is saying, "You don't know how to do this. I don't like you so much." I want to validate to you that it really does feel like that, and you're not crazy for having that thought. And it's so important to remind yourself, my baby loving me and my baby calming down or sleeping or feeding at the moment that would be convenient for me are just two separate things. A word I wish more people told me about the baby stages, inconvenient. My baby's crying and I wanna take a picture. That's inconvenient. My baby's not sleeping, and I would like my baby to be sleeping. That's inconvenient. If you can allow yourself to laugh a little bit at the inconvenience, add that, but it might not come, and that's okay. All right. Let's get back to the conversation.

  11. 14:29 – 19:19

    What Erin needed most: someone to witness the loneliness

    1. ES

      I mean, this isn't talked about a lot, but a lot of new moms are still working out breastfeeding, they're still working out, like, h- where do we sleep? How does sleep happen? Like, when are we [laughs] supposed to be sleeping?

    2. BK

      Yes.

    3. ES

      And so I think this was, like, one moment that I was probably counting on to, like, nail.

    4. BK

      [sighs]

    5. ES

      And m- I mean...

    6. BK

      Yeah. And when you, when you remember that moment with the you behind the camera also crying-

    7. ES

      Yeah

    8. BK

      ... yeah, what... There's please be nice to me. A- are you even quietly and consciously saying anything to yourself in that moment, you think? Is that... What's going on?

    9. ES

      Well, I think I miss my mom. [laughs]

    10. BK

      Yes.

    11. ES

      I, like, wanted someone-

    12. BK

      Yes

    13. ES

      ... I just, like, wanted, I wanted to be se- I wanted, like, someone to tell me it was gonna be okay, and I knew it was gonna be okay, but I needed someone to, like, witness that moment with me.

    14. BK

      Mm.

    15. ES

      [laughs] And, um-

    16. BK

      I just wanna slow that down.

    17. ES

      Yeah. Okay.

    18. BK

      Like, "I really needed someone to witness that moment with me."

    19. ES

      Yeah.

    20. BK

      Yes.

    21. ES

      Yeah.

    22. BK

      Give you a hug? Or what, what would have felt-

    23. ES

      No, just company. Just to be there.

    24. BK

      Just there.

    25. ES

      Yeah. Just there.

    26. BK

      So alone.

    27. ES

      Yes.

    28. BK

      So alone.

    29. ES

      Yes. But, but, and-

    30. BK

      Mm-hmm

  12. 19:19 – 21:33

    Partnership shock: missing, jealousy, and everyone wanting Mom

    1. BK

      You mentioned partnership.

    2. ES

      Yes.

    3. BK

      What felt surprising there?

    4. ES

      So I've heard this a lot, and then I asked my husband if he-

    5. BK

      Yeah

    6. ES

      ... had felt this way, that the partner of the person who had a baby feels jealous. [laughs] They feel-

    7. BK

      Mm-hmm

    8. ES

      ... jealous. They get really, they feel like they've been left behind.

    9. BK

      Like, "Who is sleeping with my wife?"

    10. ES

      You grew the-

    11. BK

      [laughs]

    12. ES

      Yes. You grew... Who is... Yes. You grew this baby-

    13. BK

      Yes

    14. ES

      ... and you birthed this baby, and now you're living with this baby, and like, uh, what, what's my, what is my role here? Um, and I asked him like, "Were there times that you felt, that you felt jealous?"

    15. BK

      Yeah.

    16. ES

      And he was like, "I didn't necessarily feel jealous of our kids, but I felt jealous of your time. Like, I wanted, I wanted your, I wanted your time."

    17. BK

      Oh.

    18. ES

      And then it's like everybody wants Mom's time. [laughs]

    19. BK

      Yeah.

    20. ES

      Yeah. And my husband and I like each other a lot.

    21. BK

      Yeah.

    22. ES

      Like, it wasn't... So I think, I don't know if... I'm thinking about it, and I don't know if jealous is the right word, or if it was just like a missing.

    23. BK

      Yes.

    24. ES

      Like, he missed me a lot.

    25. BK

      Yeah.

    26. ES

      And I, I don't, I don't know, I don't know that I was in tune with that at the time-

    27. BK

      Yeah

    28. ES

      ... that he was really just like missing that ti- You know, and it's so o- It's so, it's easy to... Like, I was a working parent. I'm still a working parent. But when you get home and you're like, "I've been with this thing all day," like, "Here, take it."

    29. BK

      Yep.

    30. ES

      And your husband's, well, my husband was like, "Okay. What, like, hi, how are you?" [laughs]

  13. 21:33 – 22:51

    Looking back with compassion: vulnerability as the becoming process

    1. BK

      So you today, looking back-

    2. ES

      Yes

    3. BK

      ... on Erin with her one-month-old, trying to get this picture in-

    4. ES

      Mm

    5. BK

      ... what do you understand now that you didn't understand then?

    6. ES

      Well, first of all, I was capable, completely capable. I just didn't... It had been such a long time since I was doing something new that I didn't recognize that I was capable.

    7. BK

      Yes.

    8. ES

      And, two, those very vulnerable moments, or those moments that feel very vulnerable with your kid, are so important. It's such an important part of the learning curve towards, well, in both parenting and, like, allowing your identity to grow, and allowing your, like, capabilities to expand, and allowing your abilities to, like, really stretch and move. And, um, like what's that saying? Before a seed becomes a flower, anyone looking at it would think it's total destruction-

    9. BK

      Mm

    10. ES

      ... when really it's just turning into-

    11. BK

      Oh

    12. ES

      ... it's just turning into something-

    13. BK

      Becoming

    14. ES

      ... it's becoming.

    15. BK

      Yeah.

    16. ES

      Um, and so I think that that's a big, I think that's a really big part of it for me-

    17. BK

      Yeah

    18. ES

      ... that, like, I didn't realize I was in, in a process of something really, um, beautiful and transformative. It just kind of felt like destruction at the time. [laughs]

    19. BK

      Yeah.

    20. ES

      It's like-

  14. 22:51 – 25:01

    Letting go of milestone urgency: it’s a moment, not your identity

    1. BK

      And I'm picturing a couple things. I don't know why. Like, I think about if I miss graduation for college.

    2. ES

      Yeah, yeah.

    3. BK

      It's true. Like, if you miss the graduation ceremony, you've missed it.

    4. ES

      Yes.

    5. BK

      Like, there's no you could do this tomorrow.

    6. ES

      Yes.

    7. BK

      Okay?

    8. ES

      Yes.

    9. BK

      But like, I don't know why, especially what you're saying pre-baby, like, this, this, this isn't date bound.

    10. ES

      This is like, we created this.

    11. BK

      Yeah.

    12. ES

      Like, I created this moment.

    13. BK

      So-

    14. ES

      Yeah, yeah

    15. BK

      ... the urgency feels as urgent as other things in my past-

    16. ES

      Yes

    17. BK

      ... and it's not. Right?

    18. ES

      Do you wanna know how many times anyone has asked to see this picture?

    19. BK

      Right.

    20. ES

      Zero.

    21. BK

      [laughs]

    22. ES

      Right. It, it actually has, like, nothing to do with the type of person, parent, parenting job, any of what you're doing.

    23. BK

      Yeah.

    24. ES

      It's just a moment. I mean, it's literally just a moment, and-

    25. BK

      A moment, not an identity.

    26. ES

      Yeah.

    27. BK

      Yeah.

    28. ES

      And if the-

    29. BK

      Not, not a forever truth.

    30. ES

      Right.

  15. 25:01 – 28:29

    Closing reflections and resources: you’re struggling outside, good inside

    1. BK

      It's all good. [gentle music] Here's what I'm left with after talking with Erin. Erin came into motherhood the way a lot of us do, prepared, competent, aware of milestones, and checking each one off on time, or maybe a little bit early. She thought she could just do the same thing, plan and milestone her way through it, and then life had a different plan. Feeding was different. Partnership was different. And these milestone moments that felt easier to control before motherhood come crashing down before your eyes in the form of your baby hysterically crying in the exact moment you're trying to get a perfect picture of them. What struck me so much was just Erin's honesty here about something that doesn't get said enough. We can feel so out of control and so desperate in the very moments we're just trying to stay calm for our baby. We feel confused, and it feels like the world is telling us, "This is not how the world usually goes. You can usually make things happen. You can have an image of what it should be, and that image can turn into reality." And so no wonder it all just feels so overwhelming. If this resonates with you and feels like it's part of your story, I just want you to know these are normal thoughts and experiences. We're getting used to a totally new phase in our life where so much more is out of control, where we don't have an external marker of achievement, where our baby is not going to smile for a picture as a way of telling us we're doing a good job. Your story might look different. Your hard might sound different. But please know it is still real. It still counts, and it's understandable. We're all moving through this in our own homes, at our own hours, and we are not doing it alone. Now, if you have a story you'd like to share with other parents or parents-to-be, we would love to hear from you. You can reach us at podcast@goodinside.com. And if you're looking for more support for your parenthood journey, which I think is so important because this new identity we have as a parent and figuring out how to show up for our kids, that deserves a home because it's a journey. That's exactly what we do in the Good Inside app, feeding guidance, sleep guidance, guidance for your partnership, and of course, making sure you never lose track of yourself in the process, an entire global community of parents going along for the ride with you. Check out the link in the show notes or goodinside.com. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. [inhales] Place a hand on your heart. [exhales] And let's just remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I believe in you. You've got this, and I'll see you soon. [gentle music]

Episode duration: 28:37

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