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Good Inside with Dr. BeckyGood Inside with Dr. Becky

The Parenting Shift Nobody Prepares You For (Introducing The In-Between Years)

This episode marks the launch of Good Inside’s new podcast, The In-Between Years with Dr. Sheryl — a show about raising tweens and teens. To kick things off, Dr. Becky sits down with the show’s host, clinical psychologist Dr. Sheryl Ziegler, to talk about the parenting shift that catches so many families off guard when kids enter the tween years. One day your child wants you for everything. The next, they’re shutting their bedroom door, wearing AirPods, and suddenly the strategies that used to work… don’t. In this conversation, Becky and Sheryl unpack what’s actually happening during this stage — and why it can feel so destabilizing for parents. They explore: - why tweens start pulling away - the parenting role shift that many parents struggle with - the difference between pursuing your kid and becoming a steady anchor - how to stay connected when your child seems more distant - and why this stage isn’t a rupture in your relationship, but a transition New episodes of The In-Between Years with Dr. Sheryl — will drop every Wednesday, exploring the emotional, social, and developmental realities of raising tweens and teens. Because your kid doesn’t need you less. They just need you differently. Follow Dr. Sheryl on IG: @DrSherylatGoodInside Let us know what you think! podcast@goodinside.com  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Dr. Sheryl Zieglerguest
Mar 12, 202632mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:02

    Sponsor: Virtual eating disorder treatment with Equip

    1. BE

      Eating disorders don't always look the way we expect. As parents, sometimes the hardest part isn't noticing something feels off, it's figuring out what to do next. Early support can make a real difference, but finding help is often confusing, slow, or disruptive. That's why I'm excited to tell you about Equip, a virtual eating disorder treatment program that helps your child recover at home with a full care team and support for you as parents every step of the way. Equip treats all eating disorders, works with all ages, has no wait list, and is covered by insurance in all 50 states. If you're worried about your child and don't know where to start, visit equip.health/goodinside to learn more about Equip's eating disorder treatment. That's equip.health/goodinside. There's a moment when your child starts changing emotionally, physically, relationally, and

  2. 1:02 – 2:33

    When your tried-and-true parenting instincts stop working

    1. BE

      suddenly the instincts that guided you so well when they were young, the ones that you practiced year after year and honed in on, now all of a sudden they don't land the same way anymore. You reach for their hair the way you always have, they flinch. "Why are you touching me?" You say, "Come on, tell me what's going on. Just here to listen." And they say, "Stop interrogating me." You didn't even know they had that word in their vocabulary. And I mean, really, your kid is using the word interrogate for truly benign interest in their life, and isn't that what we're supposed to be doing as parents, being interested in their life? And then you have this moment where you say, "Okay, I'm gonna try something different. I'm gonna go back to that warm voice I used when they were little," and they roll their eyes at you. And they say, "Please, don't talk to me like that." Or, "You are so cringe." That's the one I get all the time. Now, to be clear, I'm laughing as I talk about some of these moments, but they can really feel awful. It makes you feel rejected and sad, and it also can make you feel angry, like, "I have parented you for over a decade, and I'm sorry, what is this?" Whew. And it makes sense if under that anger, maybe late at night, is also hurt. I miss my little kid.

  3. 2:33 – 3:34

    Meet Dr. Sheryl Ziegler and the focus on the ‘messy middle’

    1. BE

      This is a conversation about that transition, those hard moments, and making sense of all of it as much as we can together. This is a conversation about what happens when you move into the tween and teen years, which, yes, seem to start earlier than ever these days, a stage when parenting asks something so different from us. I am joined today by someone who is very much part of the Good Inside family and very much tuned into that moment, and someone who I always want to talk to about the tween and teen struggles in my house, Dr. Sheryl Ziegler. Dr. Sheryl has been on the show a couple times before, and every single time, parents write in saying, "Oh my goodness, she gets it. More of her." Sheryl's a clinical psychologist who spent years working closely with parents of tweens and teens, helping them understand what's actually happening underneath behavior and helping them figure out how to stay anchored through a stage that can feel very disorienting and, yes,

  4. 3:34 – 5:16

    Launching new Good Inside resources for tween/teen parents

    1. BE

      very personal. Today's conversation is also special because it marks the beginning of something new for us both. Dr. Sheryl is launching a new podcast here at Good Inside, one specifically for parents of tweens and teens, and she'll be launching the puberty, tween, and teen vertical in the Good Inside app. So many of you have asked us to kind of grow alongside you, and we listened, and now we are. All right, Sheryl, you have been on this podcast a bunch of times, but for anyone who's hearing you for the first time, let's just start. Introduce yourself and just share a little bit about the stuff that's interesting to you, the age groups you focus on. Let's go there.

    2. SZ

      So I'm a psychologist, and I've been working with kids and families for a long time now. And I work with tweens and teens mostly. I used to work with the youngers, but sometimes we move our interests. And I just started focusing on tweens, I would say, like, 10 years ago or so, when I realized, like, even I thought 12 and under are just kids, and 13 and over are teens. And, like, that's fine, you know? And then I realized, like, wait, there's this little, there's a small gap in the middle, and it can be, like, eight to 12 or nine to 13-ish, where that term tween really, really does make sense, like that in-betweener kind of thing. And so I work with both tweens and teens, but I have this super soft spot for that, like, "I'm one foot in childhood, and I'm one foot in adolescence, and, like, I don't know which day, uh, where the foot is." But, like, the middle is always messy.

  5. 5:16 – 6:32

    Why tweens surprise parents: ‘I finally felt competent… and then it changed’

    1. BE

      Yeah. Do you know one of my favorite business books, right, is called The Messy Middle, right? And that the middle is always messy. So on that note, you've also worked so much with parents of kind of kids in those messy middle childhood years. What tends to catch them by surprise?

    2. SZ

      I think what happens is they feel like, "Wait, I, I, I actually s- I s- I'm starting to feel confident," or, "I have just started to feel competent, and now all of a sudden, like, who is this kid? Like, I thought I knew, I knew how to calm you. I knew what you liked. I know what your favorite dessert is or who your favorite teacher is." And all of a sudden you come home, and it's not one day, but it can feel like, and then one day they're like, "I don't even like that anymore."

    3. BE

      Yes.

    4. SZ

      Or like, "Oh, no, that, you know, band or whatever, that's, that's, like, dumb. I'm not into that." And you're like, "Wait." What? When, when are you gonna give me the memo? Like, this was your favorite, I swear, last week.

    5. BE

      Yes. I, I think what you just said is so powerful. You are starting to feel competent as a parent, and it can feel like in one moment kind of your kid changed or your kid is kind of, quote, "gone," but you feel like your competence is gone. Like, the feelings that parents have in that shift are, are what?

  6. 6:32 – 8:56

    The emotional cost: loss, quieter house, and changing access to your child

    1. SZ

      Loss. Loss is the first one. And some confusion, and sometimes some anger, and sometimes just some sadness. Like, the house can all of a sudden feel quieter. The biggest thing in terms of, like, that feeling of loss is you lose the ability to feel like, wait, like, I'm actually the leader and I set the rules, and it's like, no, oh, now I need an invitation to go into your room? I almost need an invitation to hug you, and in a way, even talk to you sometimes. Like, they're having their own experience, and I'm no longer, I, as in my role too as a mom, like, the leader of it. Like, I'm setting the tone. We're gonna go have pizza and do this tonight. Like, a lot of times they're setting the tone, like, "No, I'm just gonna be in my room. I'm just gonna do this."

    2. BE

      Yeah, and I'm picturing the galaxy and, and wishing I had more science knowledge, [laughs] but the thing that comes to mind is, like, when they're young, they're kind of a planet that orbits around us. They gaze at us.

    3. SZ

      Yes.

    4. BE

      And even when they're annoyed or even when they're melting down, you know they need you.

    5. SZ

      Mm-hmm.

    6. BE

      They're, like, looking at you. You set the tone. You're the thing they orbit around, and it, it can feel very sudden. I, I love the words you said, I think not because they're pleasant, but because they're real: loss, sadness, anger, um, rejection.

    7. SZ

      Rejection.

    8. BE

      Right?

    9. SZ

      Mm-hmm.

    10. BE

      Um, because you've gotten used to 8 years, 10 years, 12 years of this relationship, and the relationship, even if it went through down- ups and downs, I think had the same model.

    11. SZ

      When they're younger, presence is really important, but they're kind of all over the place. Then they're jumping, and they're skipping, and they're putting on a show for you, and they're playing, very active. And then when they become, like, a tween, and when I say that, I mean they're probably starting puberty, they're having hormonal shifts, they're confused themselves, what they need is, like, they don't need a playmate anymore. They really need the steady person to almost go back to and be like, "Wait, who am I again?" And then your presence reminds them, and they're like, "Oh, okay, that's who I was, and now I'm off to go figure out who I am now."

    12. BE

      Yes.

    13. SZ

      And that's like a big shift, and I don't think we prepare anybody for that. I think parents are more prepared for the teens and what they perceive is gonna be a really hard time and lots of defiance, but the tweens, I think that's why we feel loss. It's like, oh my gosh, I was robbed of my time with my kid.

  7. 8:56 – 9:46

    Attachment reframed: from orbiting around you to exploring away from you

    1. BE

      You know, I know you and I as clinical psychologists think a lot about attachment, right? And attachment is all about a kid's relationship with a secure base, right? And so before, it was kind of like your kid and the secure base, which is you, are really close. And, and actually the goal of that secure base is that they load up on enough connection, on enough confidence that now they can actually do the job that they need to do when they get older, which is to explore. But when that exploration starts, which is usually exploration of, "I don't like to watch movies," 'cause they're like, "Maybe I don't. I don't know. Let me see," right? Uh, "I wanna be alone. Oh, let me see." I know for me too it's so easy as that base, like, "Well, you move here, I'm gonna retaliate," and we, and then we kind of remove the, the anchor that they don't tell us they need, but talk about that. Do they still really need?

  8. 9:46 – 12:33

    Two common traps: passive-aggressive withdrawal vs. anxious pursuit

    1. SZ

      They really need it. They really need it. It just feels different. So like, uh, like you're talking and I'm tracking you, so I wanna... Yes, there's- there's one parent who might be like, "I'm feeling rejected, so now, like, I'm gonna kind of reject you in my own ways, like, we're gonna go have fun and have movie night without you." [laughs]

    2. BE

      Yes. [laughs]

    3. SZ

      I'm not a mama mama no more.

    4. BE

      Fine. I'm gonna watch with your younger brother. He still loves me. I'm like, what are they saying?

    5. SZ

      Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, they'll still give me hugs.

    6. BE

      Right. [laughs]

    7. SZ

      Like, and so, yes, it's like passive-aggressive, like basically, "I'm so mad at you." There's that version. Then there's the other version, which is, "You're getting away, and I'm gonna run after you, and the more you try to get away from me, the more I'm gonna try to pull you back."

    8. BE

      Run, pursue, run, pursue.

    9. SZ

      Yes. And so I do wanna say the more you do that, the more they tend to run even harder, even faster, and what used to feel like, oh, that's so supportive. Like, maybe I'm seven, and, like, I had a hard day, and, like, you lean into them and you're like, "Let's go home, and, like, let's talk about it, and let's, like, eat cookies and milk." And you know, like, they would have loved that.

    10. BE

      Yeah.

    11. SZ

      Like, a seven-year-old may love that.

    12. BE

      Yeah.

    13. SZ

      Or a kid before puberty will love that. You do that to a kid who's in puberty and trying to get away from you, and it's like, "You're so annoying, and you don't even know what I need anymore."

    14. BE

      Mm.

    15. SZ

      And it's like, oh my gosh. And so, and you really might not know what they need, actually. You're doing it. It comes out of love. I'm gonna pursue you. I'm gonna pursue you. I'm gonna try, how about we try this? Do you wanna go here? Do you wanna do this? And so instead, though, what you have to do is honor the process.

    16. BE

      Yeah, and it's so, it's so painful. It's such a new language because I think, look, and we all in some ways get comforted by binaries 'cause it's simple, right? And it's like, okay, well, if you don't want me to run after you, I guess I'm just gonna go out every night because you don't even need me at night.

    17. SZ

      Mm.

    18. BE

      And it's, it's so hard to learn this new language of no and no, right? [laughs]

    19. SZ

      Mm-hmm.

    20. BE

      Um, like, there's something in the middle. It makes me think, like, "I'm gonna run after you," is one. The other extreme is, "Fine, forget it." And in the middle, and maybe I'm curious if this is what you mean about kind of honoring the process, is like, "I'm here. I'm, like, I'm here. I'm not banging down your door. I'm not locking myself out of the house, and I'm, I'm around. I'm waiting a little more. I'm available a little more." And I know in the work I've done in that age group- Even if that doesn't mean your kid comes to you for that hug on the couch, it matters. How- do you see that, too?

    21. SZ

      Oh, yeah.

    22. BE

      That just I'm here, that middle?

    23. SZ

      Oh, yeah. I think it's almost one of the essential roles.

    24. BE

      Mm.

    25. SZ

      And which is really hard, 'cause it might feel like for, at times, and again, this is at times, 'cause this is a roller coaster. 'Cause at times they're like, "Oh my gosh, can I sleep with you tonight?"

    26. BE

      Oh, yes.

    27. SZ

      "And can we get my stuffies?"

  9. 12:33 – 18:44

    The ‘middle way’: steady presence (the potted plant) and observing vs. fixing

    1. BE

      Yes. [laughs]

    2. SZ

      "And can we, like, build a fort?" And you're like, "Wait, yesterday you didn't even want me anywhere in the, mm, the vicinity of you, and today..." And so that's part of the roller coaster. I do actually think, like, I know, like, honor the process. What, what I really mean by that is, like, understand what's literally happening inside their brain-

    3. BE

      Ooh. Mm-hmm

    4. SZ

      ... and body.

    5. BE

      So can you, can you tell us that?

    6. SZ

      Yeah, like, it's like what parents think of as, "My kid, I don't know them anymore," or, "They're so different," or, "They're trying out these new roles," what that actually is happening inside is there's a restructuring of the brain.

    7. BE

      Mm.

    8. SZ

      And the brain is pumping out hormones. Things are growing. Things are happening. Moods are happening, and they really don't know how to handle them. And so think of your kid, it's like if you were watching them try something brand new, or a really hard puzzle, or something, like, you've just never seen them do before. And think to yourself, "Okay, my job here is to observe them trying to figure out this problem, not to solve it." Not to come in and say, "Oh my gosh, this puzzle piece, it goes right here. I'm here if you want some help, like maybe on the corners or something. I'm here, but otherwise, I'm gonna trust that you're gonna figure this out, and it's gonna take a really long time. And while you're figuring that out, I'm silently over here trying to figure out how to just watch you. Just I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out how to watch you." And, and, and honestly, the thing that strikes me in your language, I don't know if you realize this, is to give parents permission, you don't know how to do this yet with your kid. You're, you're also figuring this out. So of course you are also gonna say things like, "I'm, your brother will hug me."

    9. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SZ

      And then you're gonna pursue, and then you're, you're figuring out a new parenting phase, too. When they're like, "Well, I, I don't even know. I didn't, you know, I didn't make the... They didn't, I didn't get called back on the audition," or whatever.

    11. BE

      Yeah.

    12. SZ

      It's not our jobs to be like, "Oh my gosh. Well, do you wanna do, like, more classes? Do you..." That's what we wanna do. We wanna pressure that. Instead to be like, "Hey, I wonder what that's like. I wonder, I'm curious about-"

    13. BE

      Yeah.

    14. SZ

      "... just reflecting. You seem really disappointed." Like, I know when parents hear this, like, "That's it?" It's like, yeah, that's it, and it's really hard.

    15. BE

      My move is, "I'm not gonna say one word, because I know whatever word, it's gonna be twi- it's gonna..." You know, and we do that sometimes, but it might, it's so, in some ways it's harder and simpler. "Oh, this sucks." And then you're right. The parents are like, "Well, and then what?" It's so hard. I often think whenever I go into, "And then what?" maybe the answer is always nothing. Like [laughs] Um, and, and waiting and watching and allowing the next thing to happen, right?

    16. SZ

      Yes. So I wanna even bring what you just said to life more, because I'm picturing you doing this with your kid, and when you say waiting and watching, that doesn't mean turning around, leaving the room, looking at your phone, starting to clean, vacuum, right? Presence means, like, I'm not gonna fill the space with my words and try to make you feel better or distract you. There might be a time and a place for that, but probably in this moment, like, I just need to kind of sit here. I might start dinner.

    17. BE

      Yep.

    18. SZ

      I might start, like, picking up lightly.

    19. BE

      Yep.

    20. SZ

      I'm not gonna be, though, completely distracted. I'm kinda doing it to not make it awkward.

    21. BE

      Yep.

    22. SZ

      And if they start crying or if they get mad or something, it's like, "I'm here."

    23. BE

      Yes. [gentle music] You know, it reminds me, I was just, you know, talking with a group of parents who have deeply feeling kids, and one of the things we talk about with those kids when they have these huge explosions and being in the room with them, and parents are like, "What am I supposed to do?" And it's so hard to access something that helps you embody this type of there, not fixing, not pulling away presence. And it was a parent, and one said, "I, I imagine being a potted plant," because a room is different with a potted plant. Like, a potted plant isn't, like, doing that much, but, like, everyone knows a potted plant changes a room. And she said to me, "I just say to myself, potted plant, potted plant, potted plant, potted plant." [laughs] Like, and, and there's something similar in that presence. It's not overbearing. It's not fixing. It's not withdrawing, and I think that's, it applies to this age group, too.

    24. SZ

      For me with three teens in the house, I feel like I, I, I really do operate as that potted plant.

    25. BE

      Yep.

    26. SZ

      I might hear a conversation going on. I might see, I can tell something's happening on text or something, and I'm not hovering.

    27. BE

      Yep.

    28. SZ

      I want to. I wanna know what's going on, but I'm just, like, there.

    29. BE

      And just, uh, what I think's important is sometimes you take a concept, and we can be, me too, too literal. So for the parent who's like, "I, I can't do that, I'm working," or, "I'm out of the house," like, that's-

    30. SZ

      Right

  10. 18:44 – 22:05

    Don’t confuse support with being a punching bag: boundaries and ‘redos’

    1. BE

      Right. One of the things I think also matters is how do we show up this way and appreciate this kind of new hormone-driven [laughs] stage maybe without totally losing myself, because there might be a moment where you say after, "Look, you're getting older, and the truth is, pretty soon I'm gonna ask you to be responsible for your supplies, right? Because I'm not gonna always just make it better, right? But also, like, there are gonna be moments that I still wanna help and I can, and you might not like it, but the way you spoke to me yesterday, I just know you can do better than that." Like, it-- 'cause I think parents still need permission to not feel like, like a, "Oh, so am I, am I a potted plant/punching bag?"

    2. SZ

      [laughs] Yes.

    3. BE

      "Is that good for my kid or for me?" So what, how do you, you know, how do you think about that?

    4. SZ

      Yeah, I'm so glad you, you said that. I think a lot of parents say things like, "All of a sudden I feel like I'm walking on eggshells-"

    5. BE

      Yeah

    6. SZ

      ... around, like, my 11-year-old-

    7. BE

      Right

    8. SZ

      ... and what's wrong with this picture? Um, and I, I can so resonate with that, and I think that w- the way you just said that is absolutely-- I mean, that's even nicer maybe than I would say it. I would just be like, "You can have your feelings, but it's actually not okay to talk to me that way, and I don't want to be spoken to that way. Maybe we can do a redo." I'm big into, like, "Let's do a redo."

    9. BE

      Love that.

    10. SZ

      "And maybe we'll just do that tonight. Like, we can't do it right now."

    11. BE

      Yes. Yeah.

    12. SZ

      "But, like, we need to redo that." And I think that's really is important because again-

    13. BE

      Yeah

    14. SZ

      ... they aren't doing these things on purpose.

    15. BE

      That's right.

    16. SZ

      They're not being disrespectful on purpose. They're not rejecting you on purpose. They haven't figured out yet-- think about how hard it is to go, "Okay, somehow something in my body's telling me I need to separate from you, and I need to be my own person, and I need to have my own thoughts, and I can change my mind about things. But how do I, how do I do that without just kicking you to the curb?" And so just if we can just think about how hard it is for them, they don't know quite what's happening-

    17. BE

      Yeah

    18. SZ

      ... or why.

    19. BE

      It, you know, one of the things that I used to always talk about, and I still do with couples in my practice who are working on their partnership, is just this baseline idea that it is a very hard thing to say something that is equally truthful to me as it is respectful of you. There's not a lot of adults who are great at balancing that. Can I say something that feels very true, "I need space," or-- but it, but is equally respectful. That, that's like a life practice. And so, yeah, it's true. When my nine-year-old is in this conundrum, "I'm supposed to be independent. I wanna get older. I wanna separate. Ugh, I still need my mom for school supplies," like, they're probably n- not gonna articulate that in the most sophisticated way.

    20. SZ

      I also see the other side of that where people are like, "What's wrong with me?" Like, "Ugh, I, I-- obviously I'm doing something wrong." I have people say that to me all the time. "I don't know what I'm doing. Uh, obviously I'm doing s- clearly I'm doing something wrong here. I don't know what to do. I'm a failure. I'm trying hard at something, but, like, I keep failing." And so there's that other side where, yeah, maybe at first it's like, "What's wrong with them?" But what I find is so much, and then it turns on ourselves.

    21. BE

      Yes.

    22. SZ

      "What's wrong with me?"

    23. BE

      Maybe the answer is this doesn't have to be anyone's fault, and it could just be like, "Hey, what's going on? What do I need to feel more empowered, to have more clarity in this situation?" And I can spend my energy there instead of kind of fault, right? [laughs]

    24. SZ

      Mm. Absolutely. I mean, I know, I know-- like, to me, that's a win, right?

    25. BE

      Yeah.

  11. 22:05 – 23:25

    Seeing the good inside: responding to rudeness with grounded curiosity

    1. SZ

      Your kid does something that seems, like, so rude.

    2. BE

      Yep.

    3. SZ

      And instead of, like, going in there and, you know, reacting, where you just sort of, like, take a breath-

    4. BE

      Yeah

    5. SZ

      ... and you're just like, "Hey, I know you don't normally talk to me like this, or you don't normally act like this, so I'm just wondering, you know-

    6. BE

      Yeah

    7. SZ

      ... I'm wondering what's going on," or, "I, I'm thinking that today maybe wasn't all such a great day."

    8. BE

      Yep.

    9. SZ

      But man, taking a breath-

    10. BE

      Ugh

    11. SZ

      ... and thinking, like, maybe... and maybe you're like, "Well, my kid always talks like that." Okay, if they've been talking like that a lot lately, like, "Yes, it's been happening kind of a lot lately, and I know you to be different" or-

    12. BE

      Yeah

    13. SZ

      ... "I, you know, you're normally such a sweet kid inside." Like, it always shifts things when it's like we're in a hard moment and then I remind you of something that's totally genuine that is, like, that goodness, 'cause it then lets them know, like, you still see my goodness.

    14. BE

      That's right.

    15. SZ

      Even though, like, I don't even actually know why I just snapped at you. Remember, there's that piece for them that they're like, i- if you do say, let's say, like, "What's wrong with you?" And they're just like, "I don't know. Nothing." Really, they're just like, "I, I really don't know. I don't know why you're so annoying. [laughs] I don't know."

    16. BE

      I think it's, like, kind of the ultimate act of love is when you see kind of the good inside someone else in the moment that they actually are struggling to access it-

    17. SZ

      Mm-hmm

    18. BE

      ... themselves, right?

    19. SZ

      Yeah.

  12. 23:25 – 27:14

    Repair over apology: accountability, deeper honesty, and modeling change

    1. BE

      Speaking about those moments, and we're thinking about the moment that a kid does something that, you know, we probably know on some level they regret but maybe they're in shame, they're stuck, whatever it is. What about the moments we do [laughs] the thing? We, we yell, we snap, we say horrible words to our kid. Um, we come down harshly on them about something that, you know, I don't know, maybe is more about a hard day we had or whatever it is. Like, can-- I don't know. The power of repair with those middle childhood years to teen years, talk about that.

    2. SZ

      I mean, I just wanna go back to, like, y- when someone's listening right now and they're just like, "I don't actually even really know what you mean. Do you mean an apology? Is that what you mean?" And it's like, it's actually a little bit different than apology. Apology can be part of it.

    3. BE

      Yeah.

    4. SZ

      I think repair s- like, it's, it's-- it is a little bit of an art 'cause you're not making an excuse. Like, "Hey, you know what? I had a really hard day today, and so when I came home and I snapped at you, that really wasn't about you. It was about my hard day." Right? That's pretty good repair. It's just you don't wanna externalize it.

    5. BE

      Yeah.

    6. SZ

      And meaning, like, you don't wanna just be like, "Oh, okay, so every time she has a hard day, she's just allowed to come home and yell at me," you know? And then just, like, it allows you to drop deeper. Right? So just like-

    7. BE

      Mm-hmm

    8. SZ

      ... I'm just gonna drop deeper. So I wanna say, A, I'm gonna imagine e- everyone's gonna lose their patience or not be their best self.

    9. BE

      Yeah.

    10. SZ

      And then, B, it's like going back and just being like, "You know, it's actually, it's not okay, and I realize I've been- I have been working a lot, and it doesn't allow me to show up for you the way that I wish that I could, and I'm really sorry for that."

    11. BE

      Mm.

    12. SZ

      "And so tomorrow, right?" Then you can end it with, like, "Tomorrow I'm going to... Maybe I'm gonna be home an hour later, so I'm gonna stop at the gym, so I think that's, maybe that's what I need," or, "I'm gonna go grab dinner with a friend. I'm not gonna be home tomorrow till a little bit later, 'cause I wanna come home and be the best version of myself for you."

    13. BE

      Yes.

    14. SZ

      "And I think without basically fueling myself, I'm not gonna be able to get there, and just saying I'm sorry and blaming it on a hard day isn't enough."

    15. BE

      Ugh. I think the difference between a repair versus kind of a apology, I always think an apology is just trying to shut a conversation down. "Hey, I'm sorry we- I yelled. We're good, right?" It's just like you feel it.

    16. SZ

      Mm-hmm.

    17. BE

      Shut it down.

    18. SZ

      And you want it to go f- quickly.

    19. BE

      A good repair, like, opens up something new, and that's the thing you were missing anyways, like, that connection, right? What would that mean to say, "I crushed that," right? And if you think about that, it's not just about giving something to your kid. It- it's actually giving about something to you, too. What's better than being like, "I crushed that parenting moment. I am so proud," and we're all only proud of a moment that's hard. None of us are too proud of anything easy. So, "Hey, I'm, I'm sorry I yelled, and that wasn't okay, and I'm sure that felt bad," right? Like, and you can say, "Wow, it's so weird. I had one of my hardest and best parenting moments in the same day-"

    20. SZ

      Mm-hmm

    21. BE

      ... "in the same week," right?

    22. SZ

      Mm-hmm.

    23. BE

      And I just wanna underscore what you're saying. And I think for our tweens and teens especially, it's like saying, "Hey, that secure base is still here. Still the anchor. You need it more than ever because you're doing more exploration than ever," right? And again, they might roll their eyes. It's fine, but th- i- it ma- it matters so much.

    24. SZ

      It does, and if, I think if, like, if someone's listening and they're, they're like, "Oh, hey, I wanna apply this to myself," I'll just share what, what-

    25. BE

      Mm

    26. SZ

      ... when people are practicing repair-

    27. BE

      Yeah

    28. SZ

      ... and they come back and tell me, I feel like a common theme is they say, "I was able to say to my kid, 'Hey, I'm really sorry. I've never parented a 12-year-old before,'" or, "I've never parented you at 12 before." Right? So even if you have older kids-

    29. BE

      Yes, love that

    30. SZ

      ... "I've never parented you at 12, which doesn't make it okay that I yelled. I'm sorry, and I'm learning alongside you," right?

  13. 27:14 – 30:10

    Parents’ past gets activated—and a reframe for the in-between years

    1. BE

      It, it makes me think about taking a moment for us, anyone listening, to, to think about your own parent, and I think, right, at Good Inside, we're always trying to help people hold multiplicity. Multiple things can be true, and I think something that's, like, hard to hold at once is kind of accountability and compassion. Your mo- your repair had both. Like, "I'm being accountable for what I did, and I even have self-compassion and compassion for you. Like, we've never done this before." And I think that a lot of us have a lot of feelings about our parents and how they raised us.

    2. SZ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BE

      And to even think about our own parents, like, oh, my mom never parented me when I was 14 until that moment. My dad never handled me at 16 until I was 16, and that doesn't take away the pain you felt or feeling unseen. We can hold that reality next to that compassion. They can just both be there, and I think that's just so powerful.

    4. SZ

      I, I think so, too, and I just wanna say that I think this stage that we're talking about, like puberty, being a tween, oh, they're not quite, like, the super independent, defiant teen, but they're not my baby anymore-

    5. BE

      Yeah

    6. SZ

      ... I think that provokes a lot of feelings, emotions, memories-

    7. BE

      Yes

    8. SZ

      ... in parents, and I've gotten tons of feedback around, "Yeah, whoa, I didn't know that was gonna come up for me-"

    9. BE

      Yeah

    10. SZ

      ... or, "These memories have come up for me-"

    11. BE

      Yeah

    12. SZ

      ... "and haven't thought about that in so many-"

    13. BE

      Yeah

    14. SZ

      ... "years."

    15. BE

      Yeah.

    16. SZ

      So I think it's really common.

    17. BE

      Sheryl, if a parent is listening and they're just thinking, "I love my kid, but I feel completely unprepared for this stage," I don't know, what do you wanna say to them?

    18. SZ

      Every parent has the ability to sort of say, "I've never done this stage before," maybe like, "I'm, I'm kind of scared of it," or, "I'm not really looking forward to it, and I'm really excited for what could be."

    19. BE

      Mm.

    20. SZ

      I think that's the reframe. This doesn't have to be a rupture in the relationship. This doesn't have to be, oh, you know, my baby's, like, gone and lost and they don't need me more. It really doesn't have to be that way. I think if we can go into it curious and, again, even with some excitement. Like, there, there are moments, I think, even when as hard as this stage can be, where I think a parent should feel that sense of like, wow.

    21. BE

      Yeah.

    22. SZ

      Look at this thing happening. Like, they're 12 and they wanna take a babysitting class.

    23. BE

      Yeah.

    24. SZ

      Like, oh my gosh, it wasn't that long ago I was hiring babysitters for you, 'cause at 12 you can take a babysitting class. Like-

    25. BE

      Yeah

  14. 30:10 – 32:41

    Call to action: Introducing ‘The In-Between Years’ podcast and core takeaway

    1. SZ

      ... let's celebrate that. [upbeat music] Listeners, this conversation is a doorway into a new stage of parenting, and for us, it's also the beginning of a new podcast. If you're listening and realizing, oh, this explains why things feel harder lately, I want you to know you're not behind and you're not failing. Your child is growing up. And that growth asks for a shift, not just from them, but from you, too. And you don't have to figure this all out alone. Our new podcast is called The In-Between Years with me, Dr. Sheryl. We're making a space for parents of teens and tweens who wanna understand what's really happening in this stage emotionally, socially, and physically, and how to stay connected even when things feel messy, tense, or unfamiliar. We'll talk about identity, independence, conflict repair, boundaries, and trust, not as tactics to manage kids, but as ways of showing up more steadily in relationships that are evolving. You'll hear stories and approaches grounded in research findings. I'll share my stories from my own years of clinical practice and teaching, and you'll hear the voices and stories of real parents and teens about their challenges and their wins. If you're already part of The Good Inside community, this is an extension of one core belief. Kids and their parents are good inside, and we don't need to be perfect to be deeply impactful. If you're new here, we're really glad you found us. We hope you'll let us know what you think and what you wanna hear. See our show notes for ways to get in touch, and follow me on Instagram at DrSherylatGoodInside. [exhales] Okay, zooming out. This in-between stage feels hard because it is hard. And if you remember nothing else, remember this. They act like they don't need you. They still need you. I'll see you next week. [outro music]

Episode duration: 32:43

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