Tween Behavior Changes: Talking Back, Eye Rolls, and Hidden Anxiety | Dr. Sheryl

1. 0:00 – 1:01

   Sponsor: Virtual eating-disorder treatment with Equip

   1. SHDr. Sheryl0:00

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2. 1:01 – 2:02

   Tween ‘attitude’ shows up: eye rolls, sighs, doors—and parental worry

   1. SHDr. Sheryl1:01

      was little, thinking, "It's gonna get easier." I'm like, "Oh, it's the opposite. It gets harder." You are trying to learn how to parent, and then, you know, they get through that phase, and you have to learn a new way to parent because there's just, it- it's just something new all the time. Eye rolls, that sigh your kid gives you when you ask a simple question, maybe a quick, "Ugh, Mom," or a door closing just a little harder than it used to. A lot of parents notice these moments starting to pop up right around this age, and it can leave you thinking, "Wait, what just happened to my sweet kid?" Today, I'm talking with a mom whose daughter is almost 10. Lately, she's been seeing more attitude, more pushback. How do you respond in a way that helps your child without turning every moment into a power struggle? If

3. 2:02 – 3:23

   Show framework: The in-between years require ‘needing you differently’

   1. SHDr. Sheryl2:02

      you've started noticing those little flashes of tween energy showing up in your home, I think you'll really relate to this conversation. Welcome to The In-Between Years, a podcast from Good Inside, a show for anyone raising, caring for, or loving a tween or teen. I'm Dr. Sheryl, a clinical psychologist, mom of three teens, and the author of The Crucial Years. I've spent my entire career working with teens and their families. The in-between years are that stretch when kids are no longer little, but not yet fully grown. Friendships shift, emotions get bigger, identity is forming. There's social media, academic pressure, body changes, independence. So many moments that can leave parents wondering what it all means. Your child may be growing up, but they don't need you less. They just need you differently. Welcome to The In-Between Years. Hi, Anna. Welcome. I am so happy that you're here. I am so excited to hear. I don't know everything, but I wanna hear about you and your daughter, and tell me all the things. What's happening?

4. 3:23 – 4:16

   Anna’s concern: not listening, talking back, and a ‘different kid’ with friends

   1. ANAnna3:23

      Um, so I have one child. She is nine, um, almost 10. She will be 10 in June. Um, you know, I think just normal first-time parent things. Um, I've noticed she's definitely testing her boundaries and starting to talk back and not listening, and those types of things, and it's, it's really difficult. Um, she actually had a friend over yesterday. We have a trampoline in the back. She had two girlfriends over. The one mom came. We're like, "You guys gotta get off, gotta get off, gotta get off," and they're just not listening. And then also, I just notice differences when she's hanging out with friends. You know, what she is in front of my husband and I is sometimes a very different kid when she's hanging out with her friends.

5. 4:16 – 7:04

   Under anger is fear: what ‘disrespect’ triggers in parents

   1. SHDr. Sheryl4:16

      Okay, yes. Let- let's- let's actually take it from there. So I, I hear you. So more talking back, not listening. She's changing. She acts different in front of you guys than she does with her friends. So the first thing I just wanna kinda get grounded with you on is when that makes you mad, right? You said, "This makes me mad." Tell me what it is. Like, what are you... What's the fear underneath the anger? What are you scared of?

   2. ANAnna4:48

      Um, I don't know if I'm necessarily scared of anything. I'm just frustrated with her that, you know, we have to continuously say the same thing over and over, and she's just blatantly ignoring us. Uh, I, you know, I don't want her to grow up and be a disrespectful child or disrespectful person. Um, so I think yes, I- if you're asking if there's a fear, I would say I guess that's the fear.

   3. SHDr. Sheryl5:17

      Okay. So I love, I love that you initially are like, "What? I'm not, like, scared of anything. I'm just, like, sick and tired of this," right? [laughs] Like, I get that, and that's that piece. That's, like, that's what we can see. Like, so from her, we can see her defiance, her disrespect. She's changing. And then on your end, what we can see is like, "My husband's mad. I'm mad. We're yelling. We're just sick and tired of this." And so for both of you, though, there's, like, a whole other story going on underneath that. So I wanna start with yours first. When you said, "I guess I'm scared she's gonna grow up and be disrespectful," right? That's one of your fears because she's your only child. She is 9 turning on 10, and so part of you is like- Who is this person I'm launching into the world?

   4. ANAnna6:06

      Right.

   5. SHDr. Sheryl6:06

      Like, you know, maybe a little bit of this I could deal with at home, but then a lot of this, first of all, I can't deal with that, and second of all, is this the way she acts at other places? Is this the way she's gonna be, right? So I want you, the first thing I want you to realize is it's, it's, like, really helpful actually when we're mad, when we're feeling anything that's... Even the word frustrated or disappointed, at the root of that is still a fear. The fear that, fill in the blank, right? The fear that my kid's, like, not gonna represent, like, how much love w- and care we've given to her. She's gonna walk around the world like this girl, right? So now that you're, you're, like, a little in touch, like, "Okay, yeah, my, I guess my fear is who is she becoming? Who is she becoming?" 'Cause I knew her up until the last, whatever, six months, and this version. First of all, it's nine. Is that surprising you? How do you feel about the way she's acting at nine?

6. 7:04 – 9:59

   Re-grounding: ‘She’s a good kid having a hard time’ + parent regulation matters

   1. ANAnna7:04

      Um, I mean, overall she is a very good kid. It's just, I don't know if it's my human nature or just, you know, we tend to kind of focus on why is she doing this, and, and not celebrate, you know, the good things that she does and, and that. And sometimes I, I do think, "Is there something wrong? Is she maturing too fast, or is this right?" Because again, I'm a first-time mom. You know, I remember getting in trouble for doing things when I was a kid and having an attitude, but I don't remember exactly when that started.

   2. SHDr. Sheryl7:37

      Yes. So you're s- you're, um, you're playing out what so many parents go through, which is, like, first of all, the first thing you said was, "Wait. Hold on a minute. She is a good kid."

   3. ANAnna7:50

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SHDr. Sheryl7:50

      Right? So all of a sudden when I'm like, "Oh, w- did you expect this?" You're like, "Wait, wait. Hold on a second. I do need you to know, no, she's really a good kid," and I love that, right? Like, maybe even you needed to realize, like, she is a good kid. She is. She's a good kid going through big transitions.

   5. ANAnna8:09

      Yes.

   6. SHDr. Sheryl8:10

      In this relaxed moment, when I say that back to you, now how do you feel?

   7. ANAnna8:17

      Okay with it. You know, not, not as angry as I was in the moment, obviously, because I calmed down. And even afterwards, I always try to talk to her if there is something that happens afterwards, just, like, when we've calmed down, and especially if I tend... You know, if I got angrier than I normally do, and I try to explain that we have feelings. Even though I'm an adult, sometimes I get mad, and I, you know, can raise my voice and those types of things, and that behavior is normal and okay in a sense, but we have to, you know, control our feelings and those types of things. But yes, I mean, some days are harder than others when you're more frustrated than others. You know, the other mom was yelling. I think I kinda just was like, "Come on. There's two parents out there that can't get them to go. Like, what the heck's happening?" So-

   8. SHDr. Sheryl9:20

      Right. Yeah

   9. ANAnna9:20

      ... you know. And, and also, that has to do with my mood and, and what I'm, what, how my day has gone.

   10. SHDr. Sheryl9:27

       You, you are, I know that you're, like, it happened yesterday, and I know, like, what we're talking about could have happened, you know, yesterday and the day before and the day before that, right? But exactly, right now that you're regulated, you're like, "Okay. A, I know that my mood, my day, my reserves, my fuel tank," however you wanna put it, "if it's close to empty, yeah,"

   11. ANAnna9:49

       Mm-hmm

   12. SHDr. Sheryl9:49

       ..."I'm gonna start yelling. I am not gonna remember in that exact moment she's a good kid having a hard time or whatever." You're gonna be like, "Get off the trampoline now."

   13. ANAnna9:58

       Yes.

   14. SHDr. Sheryl9:58

       Right?

   15. ANAnna9:58

       Yeah.

7. 9:59 – 13:15

   Parents are in transition too: losing ‘easy control’ as kids grow

   1. SHDr. Sheryl9:59

      And we do that 'cause we want control. I want to control this right now. When I, when it's 4:00 and I, it's time to go, get off and go, right? And there's that element of control that up until around now you probably had a lot of it. It was like, "Okay, it's time to go," and there's more like, "Okay, Mommy," right, and jump off and, and follow you.

   2. ANAnna10:19

      And when they're two and screaming at the, the playground, you can pick them up and put them in the car seat. You know, it's different now. [laughs]

   3. SHDr. Sheryl10:26

      It is. It is. You're exactly right. And at two years old, you know that you might have to do that, and at nine years old, you're like, "Okay, that can't happen," and so you're in a transition, too. And I think this is one of the things we miss so much, is we focus so much on her, "Oh, is there something wrong with her?" You also said, "Is she maturing too early?" And I think those are good questions, and we'll get to them, but I think almost the bigger piece is, like, wait, have me... Like, let's picture you and that mom next to the trampoline. Have we taken a moment to realize, like, we're going through a shift in our parenting, like, f- you know, with, with, like, what feels like no roadmap, right? Like-

   4. ANAnna11:07

      Sure

   5. SHDr. Sheryl11:07

      ... uh, all of a sudden she's, she, like, does, not only is she not listening to me, she's repeatedly not listening to me. She's pushing boundaries.

   6. ANAnna11:15

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SHDr. Sheryl11:15

      And so I just wanna know, like, in your own words, when I say, like, you're going through your own parenting shift, have you thought about that? Do you and any of your friends talk about that? Like, what, what, how do you wrap your mind around this?

   8. ANAnna11:31

      So I don't know. I just remember when she was little thinking it's gonna get easier. You know? Like, as they get older, they're more mobile, and this and that, and I'm like, "Oh, it's the opposite. It gets harder."

   9. SHDr. Sheryl11:45

      Yeah.

   10. ANAnna11:45

       They're so easy. You can protect them. You know, you control, just like what you said, you control the environment, the things that they can do, and you have just more say. But it, it's, it's, it's hard. It's hard to, you know, balance phones and social media and all the things. It, it's, it's really, it's difficult because- We were raised, or I was raised in a completely different situation. Um, so you are kind of trying to learn how to parent, and then, you know, they get through that phase, and you have to learn a new way to parent because there's just, it- it's just something new all the time.

   11. SHDr. Sheryl12:27

       Yes.

   12. ANAnna12:27

       She's going into fifth grade next year. It's the last year of elementary school. Then we're going to middle school, and middle school is hard. I mean, she's got a-

   13. SHDr. Sheryl12:35

       Yes

   14. ANAnna12:35

       ... really good group of friends, but, you know, it's that... It's tough. It's transition.

   15. SHDr. Sheryl12:41

       Yes. So this is feeling hard to you because it is hard. It really is, and we focus so much on our kids and the changes that they're going through like, you know, oh, in third grade, math gets harder, and oh, Click Start, and we're really focused on them. But for you, you're still the parent who you are, and your values should be who you've always been. But the approach is all of a sudden different. You're like, "Wait, it seems like the more I tell her to do something, actually sh- the less she's listening to me."

   16. ANAnna13:12

       100%.

   17. SHDr. Sheryl13:12

       "So this isn't working," right?

   18. ANAnna13:14

       Yeah.

8. 13:15 – 14:05

   ‘Yellow flag’ puberty/brain changes + proactive problem-solving before the moment

   1. SHDr. Sheryl13:15

      So all of a sudden, it's like I need a whole new set of rules. Like, the game, the rule of this, like, game is changing, right? So let's rewind to yesterday, and I'm gonna give you some ideas-

   2. ANAnna13:26

      Okay

   3. SHDr. Sheryl13:26

      ... on, like, the shift all of a sudden 'cause, like, the just, like, "I said get off," like, you're gonna do that, but maybe the second or third time I say that, like, all of a sudden it didn't work. So the first thing is at this age and stage, it sounds like, I don't know if she's going through earlier puberty. I don't know if she's starting that. It starts in the brain. You might not be seeing physical signs.

   4. ANAnna13:48

      Okay.

   5. SHDr. Sheryl13:49

      But the fact that she's pushing more limits, k- it's like a yellow flag, right? Like, okay, I'm gonna pay attention. She's a good kid. She's starting to push limits. So we're gonna yellow flag that.

   6. ANAnna13:58

      Okay.

   7. SHDr. Sheryl13:59

      But one of the things that is so helpful at this age also cognitively, right-

   8. ANAnna14:05

      Mm-hmm

9. 14:05 – 16:43

   Shoulder-to-shoulder collaboration: from ‘CEO parent’ to teammate

   1. SHDr. Sheryl14:05

      ... her understanding of things, 9 to 10, you can say something like, "Hey," I'm gonna make up the name. "Hey, remember the last time we had Katie over, and, like, me and her mom were screaming at you guys? You weren't listening. We got all ma..." Remember that? And she's gonna be like, "Uh-huh." "Okay. So I know y- I know you wanna have her over again this weekend, so we're gonna need to do this differently because what we've been doing isn't working anymore."

   2. ANAnna14:31

      Okay.

   3. SHDr. Sheryl14:31

      Right? So now all of a sudden we're like we. We're like partners in this because you're gonna go from being, like, the CEO, the manager in charge, the one that's, like, putting your arm and pulling her along. You're just starting the transition. You're gonna be shoulder to shoulder-

   4. ANAnna14:47

      Okay

   5. SHDr. Sheryl14:47

      ... a lot more. So shoulder to shoulder says, "Hey, the last time we had a hard time." So you had a hard time getting off the trampoline, and I had a hard time staying cool under pressure. I started yelling at you 'cause you weren't listening to me, right?

   6. ANAnna15:01

      Okay.

   7. SHDr. Sheryl15:01

      So right now, all of a sudden, like, we, we're in this together, and she's gonna be, like, looking at you. She's gonna be looking at you big time because, you know, cooperatively 'cause she wants to have them over again, right? She wants to get to play, and so you have her attention. Okay, so all right. So we had a hard time with that. So this next time, what do you think we could do differently so that when I say, "It's time to go," you're able to listen? 'Cause actually, most of the time, you're such a great listener. My guess is you were having so much fun-

   8. ANAnna15:32

      Mm-hmm

   9. SHDr. Sheryl15:33

      ... that you weren't even thinking, "Well, I'll just not listen to my mom," because the fun was so big. So now we have to figure out how to balance the so much fun with still being able to agree to the thing we agreed to.

   10. ANAnna15:44

       Sure.

   11. SHDr. Sheryl15:45

       Right? So now, so you see the way I'm talking to her, right?

   12. ANAnna15:48

       Yeah.

   13. SHDr. Sheryl15:48

       Like, I am talking to her like I believe she can do this because I do believe she can do this. I'm in it with her, and guess what? This is kinda hard for both of us because I gotta go. Like, I just worked all day, or I gotta go home and cook dinner, and, like, you know, you could even say to her, "You know, at the end of the day too, I, like, sometimes I don't have as much patience. Depends on my day." So now what you're starting to do is you're starting to model for her, like, "Yeah, I, I'm still your mom, and I'm reliable, and I'm your home base. I really am. But, like, sometimes there's only 20% of left in me. And at the end of the day, when I'm picking you up or I, like, you know, it's, it's hard for me. Could you help me?" You know what I mean? If you say to a kid, a 9 or 10-year-old, "I need your help," that's huge. That gets their attention because their whole lives, all they know is that, like, you're there basically to serve me.

   14. ANAnna16:43

       Right.

10. 16:43 – 19:24

    Core developmental goal before adolescence: building competence (not just compliance)

    1. SHDr. Sheryl16:43

       I need you to h- you know, you're helping me, Mom, all the time. Like, you can just say, like, "You gotta help me out here. Like, y- you know, it'll help me out a l- of this." So I'll pause there, but what I want you to hear is the goal of this stage is competence.

    2. ANAnna16:58

       Okay.

    3. SHDr. Sheryl16:58

       Right? So up until 12 years old, our job as parents is to give them situations, room to breathe, to gain competence, to try things and fail, try it again and succeed, learn and grow. So if you said, "You know what?" Not that you're saying you're gonna do this, but some parents do. Like, "You know what? No, we're not doing a play date the next time because you don't seem to be able to listen to me. And if you can't listen to me-

    4. ANAnna17:24

       Mm-hmm

    5. SHDr. Sheryl17:25

       ... we're not doing it anymore," right? So there's probably a lot of parents laughing right now listening, like, "Yep, we've all been there-

    6. ANAnna17:30

       Sure, right

    7. SHDr. Sheryl17:30

       ... where we're just like, we're not just, we're just gonna cut it off." If you do that, especially starting now, what you're saying is, like, "I don't trust myself that I can do this, and I don't trust you."

    8. ANAnna17:43

       I like kind of making a deal with her or kind of having that collaboration because then there's ownership for her to wanna, you know, do the right thing and get the reward for it.

    9. SHDr. Sheryl17:55

       Absolutely, and the only thing I would tweak in what you're saying, I love what you're s- like, saying to her is you said, um, you know, "If you let me down, then we're not gonna be able," blah, blah, blah, and I don't want you to own, I don't want you to own it in that way.

    10. ANAnna18:10

        Okay.

    11. SHDr. Sheryl18:10

        Like, if you let me down, right? I want her to own it. Like, we're trying to say Hey, first of all, we don't have to do these play dates. Like, if you don't feel like you can do this, I wanna set you up to succeed. If you know when you're with your two besties, you are just not gonna be able to, right? And, and a l- it's probably a little paradoxical. [laughs] Like, oh my gosh, please, I don't wanna do that to you. But it's also, like, coming from a genuine place. Like, I want her to trust herself.

    12. ANAnna18:38

        Right.

    13. SHDr. Sheryl18:39

        Right? And so instead of her wanting to do it for me, I wanted ch- her to do it for herself. And I would say to her, like, even again, right, and n- in my, in my system of working with families, there's almost nothing that's a one-and-done conversation.

    14. ANAnna18:55

        Oh, of course.

    15. SHDr. Sheryl18:55

        Right? These are ongoing blah, blah, blah. You gotta get your husband on board too with the same kind of languaging and his words, right? And so I love the idea that you've already started this. You've already started planting these little seeds, and just start thinking, okay, she's, she's 9 going on 10. She is working on competency. That's the number one thing. She's working on competency, knowing that she can do things, because in around two, three years from now, she's gonna be working on identity.

    16. ANAnna19:24

        Okay.

11. 19:24 – 21:08

    Boundaries still matter: consistent limits + alignment between parents

    1. SHDr. Sheryl19:24

       Who am I? Who am I? So from, like, 9, 10 to, let's say, 13, she's gotta know what... This is what her job is. She's gotta know what she's good at, what she can do, and what she can't do or what she needs more practice and help on, right? Those are really honest assessments of our, of ourselves that you can start at 9 or 10. And you also have to know, like, I'm gonna set a boundary, and I'm gonna maintain that boundary. She's gotta know it's her job to push those limits, but then she has to know that you let her know when she's bucked up against it.

    2. ANAnna19:59

       Yeah.

    3. SHDr. Sheryl20:00

       If you say, like, "Well, I didn't love that," and then you start moving the boundary a little bit-

    4. ANAnna20:04

       Sure

    5. SHDr. Sheryl20:04

       ... and then y- your husband wants to come in like a brick wall, right, and you're coming in, like, a little bit malleable, then she's like, "Okay, I'm learning the system here."

    6. ANAnna20:13

       Yeah.

    7. SHDr. Sheryl20:13

       Boundaries, they're things that I can really push against. Like, it's, like, you just really truly u- some people even use the words, like, okay, you now pushed up against it, and this is not moving. The boundary's not moving. No, we're really not going to do X, Y, Z or whatever, you know? So just keep that in mind. It is her job, though.

    8. ANAnna20:33

       Okay.

    9. SHDr. Sheryl20:33

       It is her developmental job to know when did I push my m- okay, my mom told me 17 times. At 17, she seemed real serious.

    10. ANAnna20:41

        [laughs] Yeah.

    11. SHDr. Sheryl20:42

        Right? And you're like, "No, I want you to listen to me on the first time," so don't go to 17. Let her know that two or three is the brick wall. Like, this is a we're not negotiating anymore. So I hope that that's helpful, and I want you to share that with your husband, too. Remind yourself it is her job to push our boundaries. It is our job to maintain them, to let her know, right? Let her know.

    12. ANAnna21:06

        Okay.

12. 21:08 – 24:23

    The ‘sprinkles’ strategy: one small lesson at a time (without re-punishing)

    1. SHDr. Sheryl21:08

       So I'm curious. When she gets home from school or tonight when you're having dinner, what might you bring up again? 'Cause remember, let's give her another little sprinkle tonight.

    2. ANAnna21:21

       Mm.

    3. SHDr. Sheryl21:21

       What do you wanna say to her, ask her about?

    4. ANAnna21:26

       [sighs] I'm gonna say, you know, you need to take ownership of this, and you need to, you know, work with me, and we're both gonna get frustrated with each other. And I try to, you know, also explain if she, you know, says about, like, arguing or whatever, and I say, "Listen, people who love each other argue. Sometimes Daddy and I argue. Sometimes my mom and I argue or whatever. Everybody argues, and that's okay. Doesn't mean you don't love each other. But, you know, decompressing and talking about it afterwards is a good thing, and, you know, it helps people communicate better." So I'm, I'll explain that to her.

    5. SHDr. Sheryl22:08

       I think the thing to know is to say, first of all, and I do this with, like, uh, when they were that age, I did this with my kids, too. I'd say, um, "Well, first of all, like, it didn't... You know, nobody asked me about my day. Like, I had a day, too."

    6. ANAnna22:19

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SHDr. Sheryl22:20

       Right? I, I'm not here to just serve you. I had a day, too.

    8. ANAnna22:23

       Right.

    9. SHDr. Sheryl22:23

       So you can say to her, um, "You know, I s- I was really thinking about yesterday, what happened, and I was thinking about it because I love you, and I love to see you showing up as the best version of yourself, and yesterday probably wasn't, like, the best version of yourself. And I like to show up as the best version of myself, too, so I was thinking about it." And then, like, instead of everything you just said is so, like, mom-like, right, and you just gave her, like, five different concepts in the thing. Like, everything from, "Next time you do it, there's gonna be consequences," and, "We all have hard days, but..." You know, like, you had a lot of good messages.

    10. ANAnna22:59

        Right.

    11. SHDr. Sheryl22:59

        Give her one, pick one sprinkle tonight. Give her one little sprinkle. So the sprinkle isn't, "I was thinking about it." That's the intro, right? "I was thinking about it 'cause I care about you, and I love you, and I love seeing you show up, like, the best version of you, 'cause that's amazing." And you can just say, like, "Just the way, like, when I'm scared that maybe you're not gonna listen to me, my voice gets louder and louder," 'cause the more loud it gets, it's actually the more fearful you are. That's just the truth. And then you can say to her, "I think the... I was thinking about it. Probably, like, the more attitude you give me, what do you think that might mean?"

    12. ANAnna23:31

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SHDr. Sheryl23:32

        Right? And see if she can get to it, 'cause what I wanna see her get to is, "Yeah, probably when I talk to you with attitude, it's just, like, I'm just, like, so mad at what you're saying. Like, I don't like what you're saying." Okay, so the more attitude you give me, it's just, like, we're having a communication problem. Let's both pause in that moment.

    14. ANAnna23:49

        Okay.

    15. SHDr. Sheryl23:49

        That's it, right? So pick one lesson. Sprinkles. Sprinkles. You should tell that to your husband tonight.

    16. ANAnna23:56

        Okay.

    17. SHDr. Sheryl23:56

        Be like, "When we eat dinner, for the next week, we're gonna give her one sprinkle," and, and if you stay focused on just what happened last night, it's not gonna feel like you're revisiting and re-punishing her. It's actually gonna feel like we're just taking that one lesson-

    18. ANAnna24:09

        Okay

    19. SHDr. Sheryl24:09

        ... and there's seven lessons to learn out of it, and we're gonna, we're just gonna keep... We're not gonna drop it. We're gonna move. We're gonna grow with it. I can't wait. I hope that you'll follow up and- Write me or something, and let me know how your sprinkles go with her.

13. 24:23 – 25:43

    Model what’s underneath attitude: naming needs, frustration, and mind-reading wishes

    1. ANAnna24:23

       Okay. Yeah, I'm, I think tonight I'm gonna talk to her about just the attitude, and just the way that she speaks to me, and, you know, and, and I think we can all in and within our home be a little bit guilty of, you know, copping an attitude with each other sometimes. And also talking to my husband, you know, all three of us have to be respectful towards each other.

    2. SHDr. Sheryl24:44

       I love that. I love that. And you're doing shoulder to shoulder, right?

    3. ANAnna24:47

       Yeah.

    4. SHDr. Sheryl24:47

       You just did a shoulder to shoulder. Like, I do it, of course we, we all do it. And so you can model for her. You don't have to put her on the spot. You can just model for her. Like, yeah, I know that when I speak with an attitude sometimes with Dad, it's probably because, right? And go below the surface. On the, sure, you can say, " 'Cause I had a long day and I was tired," da, da.

    5. ANAnna25:05

       Sure.

    6. SHDr. Sheryl25:06

       That's a, that's everything we can see. What's below that? Because maybe sometimes I'm, I'm feeling frustrated that, you know, he, he can't read my mind, that I want him to know that I'm struggling, and that's really sometimes, you know, that's not too much information, right? I sometimes, I want people to read my mind. Do you ever want people to read your mind? Like-

    7. ANAnna25:24

       Right

    8. SHDr. Sheryl25:24

       ... you just want me to know what you want, right? You can take all those examples and do that for her.

    9. ANAnna25:28

       Okay.

    10. SHDr. Sheryl25:28

        So I love that. You have no apologies, you're going shoulder to shoulder. And just pick one message and hone in. It's gonna be so powerful.

    11. ANAnna25:37

        Okay. Thank you.

14. 25:43 – 27:06

    Closing takeaway: attitude is often development—stay steady; they need you differently

    1. SHDr. Sheryl25:43

       Anna, I'm really glad you brought this question here, because so many parents start to notice this shift around this age. The attitude, not listening. Talking back. And one of the big takeaways from our conversation is that these moments aren't signs that something is going wrong. Often, they're signs that something new is developing. Your child's growing independence, their bigger feelings, the priority of their friendships. The work for us parents isn't to eliminate these moments. It's to stay steady with them. Let's end by zooming out. Deep breath. This in-between stage feels hard, because it is hard. If you can remember nothing else, remember this: They act like they don't need you. They still need you. I'll see you next week. [outro music]

Episode duration: 27:06