Alex Cooper ON: Feeling Insecure? This Video Will CHANGE Everything! | Jay Shetty

Alex Cooper 0:00 I think as a woman, especially as we've seen in the world, we are not equal to men. We don't have autonomy over our bodies. And so it, for me, using my platform right now to be like, "Let me be the boldest I can be," even if people are a little taken aback, it- I hope it just helps other women. The bestselling author and host.

Jay Shetty 0:19 The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, this happens now and again, but there's someone that I've been following, admiring from afar, and then you see they follow you, and you just go, "I need to- I, I want to connect with this human, and I want to get to know them." And someone that when you watch their content, you feel like you already know them. And the few moments I've spent with her just as she'd been walking into the studio, I already felt like I had a connection with her, and there was a really beautiful, warm hug, and just like this really positive feeling. But this is someone who has dominated as an entrepreneur, been extremely successful as a business person, an incredible host and interviewer, someone who is so multi-talented across the board, whether it's, uh, being authentic on camera, off camera, editing, creating. I mean, the works. And I'm speaking about the one and only Alex Cooper, creator, host, and executive producer of the hugely successful, which is an understatement, the podcast brand called Call Her Daddy. Alex is one of the most listened to female podcasters in the world, with millions of listeners per episodes. And Alex continues to break all boundaries by shattering stigmas and stomping on misogyny, all while keeping mental health and personal empowerment at the forefront. And that's what really drew me into her work, was when I started to see her talk about mental health and wellbeing and habits. I was just blown away, and I was like, "We have to make this happen for our On Purpose community." And to the millions of devoted gen-z and millennial listeners, the Daddy Gang, the Call Her... which I'm a part of. Uh, the Call Her Daddy brand represents a new set of values and standards. And in addition to Alex, has a successful merchandise line, as well as several exciting businesses and endeavors in the pipeline, which I can't wait to discuss. Alex, welcome to On Purpose.

Alex Cooper 2:18 Thank you so much for having me. I need to make that, like, my alarm clock every morning of, like, just, like, really hype myself up. Oh my God, you are so good at doing those intros.

Jay Shetty 2:27 No, well, I- it's part of, like, this culture that I adopted through living as a monk, and it was just when you met someone or when you introduced people, it was always part of the culture to, like, genuinely feel awe with who you're in front of and to genuinely take in what they've done. Because it, A, helps you feel more grateful when you're with them. Uh, I feel very grateful to be with you today. I feel more inspired. I feel like I can learn. I feel curious, and I feel often, at least from the culture I grew up in, we always played people down. Like, we always kind of, like, thought, "Oh, well, we don't want to say this stuff about them." But I actually thought you have a worse conversation because then you're thinking, "Well, what do I have to learn from this person?" Or, "This person's probably gonna be up themselves, so what am I gonna get?"

Alex Cooper 3:08 Yeah, that's actually-

Jay Shetty 3:08 And it ruins the vibe, like.

Alex Cooper 3:09 Yeah. That's a great concept, 'cause I always think, I feel like, with social media, people now, everyone, millennial, gen Z, everyone's like y- we're all egotistical. And so sometimes you try to downplay what you're doing, but it's actually such a great concept that you're taking a complete different spin. You're like, "Let's actually embrace our successes and everything we're doing and embrace it and enjoy it rather than feel shamed and, like, want to be hush-hush about it." Or on the other side, don't be jealous of someone if they're thriving and, like, l- 'cause you can learn from them. Like, I'm so excited to sit across from you today, 'cause I'm like, "Jay Shetty, like, let's get into it," because I'm, I'm geeking. I'm a huge fan. What you're doing is so incredible. I listen to your podcast, and I don't listen to many. Um, but I'm very excited and humbled to be here, so thank you.

Jay Shetty 3:53 Oh, that's the biggest compliment.

Alex Cooper 3:54 Thank you. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 3:54 I had no idea.

Alex Cooper 3:55 Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 3:55 So now, now I'm, like, blushing, if you're listening.

Alex Cooper 3:57 [laughs] We're both blushing.

Jay Shetty 3:58 And if- Yeah. [laughs] Uh, and I have to tell you this, because I just love people knowing this, and I really appreciate that coming from you. But I have a rule that whenever we bring on a new team member, the, n- one of the questions I ask them in the interview is, "Who would you love as a guest of On Purpose? Like, who would that person be?" But then Helena, who's our podcast producer, it was you. And, and she was just like, "Yeah, I'd l-" And I was like, "She's already scheduled." So it was-

Alex Cooper 4:20 Helena, I love it. Daddy Gang. Daddy Gang, Daddy Gang, Daddy Gang.

Jay Shetty 4:24 [laughs] And so it was just this beautiful feeling where she was like, "Yeah, I'd love Alex Cooper." And I was like, "We've already got her scheduled. She's coming on the show." Like, it was already happening. So-

Alex Cooper 4:31 I'm honored. Thank you

Jay Shetty 4:31 ... yeah. So anyway.

Alex Cooper 4:32 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 4:32 You have a lot of love in our community for you.

Alex Cooper 4:34 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 4:35 Uh, we're all big fans. But, but let's dive straight into it.

Alex Cooper 4:37 Let's get into it.

Jay Shetty 4:38 For me, when I'm observing someone like you, looking from the outside in, I've- I think one of the things that fascinates me is, like, you know, what's someone interested in behind the camera? I just saw you in Italy. Uh, me and my wife were so jealous and FOMOing because we used to go to Italy every summer when we lived in

Jay Shetty 4:56 London. We're both born and raised in London. What was your favorite thing about Italy?

Alex Cooper 4:59 The food, the pasta. I have never been-- I rarely take, like, big vacations like that, and I was so excited to just try the pasta. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and so, you know, I don't know if we're, like-

Jay Shetty 5:13 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 5:14 ... running to the fish department in Pennsylvania. You're like, "Ooh, what can we eat?" So it was kind of like Italian, but it was kind of bad Italian. Sorry to everyone in Pennsylvania. And so, but I've always loved carbs, and I was an athlete, so I'm like, when I get there, it was breakfast, lunch, dinner, pasta, let's go. Dessert, pasta, let's go. So it was amazing. But, um, we went to the Amalfi Coast. That was beautiful. I just felt so fortunate to be there, and it was, it was incredible.

Jay Shetty 5:37 Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I, I was genuinely living through your stories.

Alex Cooper 5:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 5:41 And I was just like, "Oh, I want to go back. I want to go back." So we're planning next year now.

Alex Cooper 5:44 Amazing. Amazing.

Jay Shetty 5:45 But everyone from the US felt like they were in Italy this summer.

Alex Cooper 5:47 Everyone.

Jay Shetty 5:48 Like, everyone I know.

Alex Cooper 5:49 Every single person on my Instagram was in Italy, so I was like, "Okay, great. I'm going. This is the first year I won't have FOMO." 'Cause I always see people in these places like Ibiza or, you know, Mykonos, and I've never been Any of those places. And I was like, "This year, I'm going to Italy and I'm doing it," and it was, it was amazing.

Jay Shetty 6:05 One of the things I love about you in person that I'm observing is that you're so warm. Like, from the moment you walked in, so warm. Like, you know, I love it when... I always, when someone gets out their car and they, they arrive at my home, the first thing I want to do is hug them. And-

Alex Cooper 6:16 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 6:16 ... when I, when I see that same energy, I'm like, "This is awesome." But one of the things people observe about you online is that you're confident. You're very confident on the podcast. You're, you're very confident in your stories, which is a beautiful quality. Was young Alex confident too? I know we heard- we've heard about, like, you grew up in front of the camera with your father, and, like,

Jay Shetty 6:33 you know. So was confidence always easy for you, and how has your journey with confidence evolved?

Alex Cooper 6:40 The answer is no. [laughs] Um, absolutely not. I... It's actually been interesting, 'cause the past year I've really started to get into this in therapy with my therapist, and I haven't really... Like, I've, I think I've mentioned it a couple times to The Daddy Gang, but I don't talk about it a lot 'cause I'm still kind of going through it in therapy. When I was younger, I had a really hard time in school. Not grades-wise. You know, I was a solid B.

Jay Shetty 7:04 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 7:04 Let's throw it out there. Maybe if I tried a little harder we could've gotten some As. But I was severely bullied for my looks. I was super, super skinny. People made fun of me, said that, like, I looked like I had an eating disorder. I had awful, awful acne, to the point where, like, I would beg my parents to, like, let me stay home from school. And I was... It, it was so bad, and I turned inward a lot. Like, I never wanted my parents to know that I was going through it 'cause I was ashamed. It's embarrassing to not be able to connect with your peers, and also to be f- I was physically bullied. Like, the boys would be like, "Let's play a game. Her legs are so tiny, like, if we trip her, they will snap in half." And, like, it was awful. And I never really talked about it, but what got me through it actually was my dad works in sports and he's a producer, and I remember at, like, seven years old, he handed me a camera and was like, "Go make something." And so my escape from really ha- like, I hated everything about myself. I hated e- my, my skin, my face, my hair, my teeth, my body, my torso, my legs. Like, I could pinpoint every single thing about myself that I hated, and it was almost everything exterior-wise. But inside, I knew I was a good person, I knew I was a good daughter, I knew I was a good friend, but I felt like it was all based on looks of why I was getting bullied. So I turned to creating content. That's what I- was my escape. And I would go in my basement and I would make music videos, or I would write scripts and make, like, little short films or silent films, and I would put on wigs and put on outfits and makeup. And it was the first time that I truly felt safe. Like, I could be fully myself. Meanwhile, I was fully alone.

Jay Shetty 8:56 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 8:56 So I'm like, [laughs] I'm like a weirdo in my basement. But it was that and soccer specifically. I played extremely competitive soccer, and I realized why I got... I felt so safe also and seen in soccer, because it was all women. Can you score a goal? Like, w- what are you doing?

Jay Shetty 9:12 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 9:12 So what are you bringing to the team, you know? So I, I don't talk about that a lot because... It was actually interesting. I recently was interviewed by The New York Times, and I don't do a lot of interviews.

Jay Shetty 9:24 I read that piece.

Alex Cooper 9:24 Um, and it was in a follow-up conversation. We had, like, an hour and a half interview. The reporter asked to do a follow-up, and somehow we got on the topic of my childhood, and he... And I started talking, and I shared with him that I had been bullied. And quite literally physically, his demeanor, his fa- like, his jaw dropped, and I could tell he was shocked, and everything that prior that hour and a half interview I first did with him kind of was shattered, because he was like, "Wait, what? Like, you were bullied?" And I realized something that moment, was, like, the character I've created on Call Her Daddy, there's this dichotomy of, for me, the girl that was bullied and then the girl I've created or the woman I've created in the show. But I think a lot of people have a hard time, 'cause everyone wants to put things in boxes, understanding, like, there's no way Alex Cooper, the confident Call Her Daddy girl, could have also been bullied when she was younger. And what I've come to realize in therapy is actually that ugly, awkward, acne girl is who started Call Her Daddy. Because if I had not gone through that, there's no way I would've started Call Her Daddy. I remember reading, um, Malcolm Gladwell's, uh, Outliers.

Jay Shetty 10:41 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 10:41 And it was like, you've got to have 10,000 hours to even be considered an expert. By eighth grade, I was considered an expert in editing. I was, like, obsessed with creating content. And so that's kind of a, a little bit of my story, where I definitely struggle sometimes to open up about it, because I'm also aware on the internet sometimes people are like, "You're lying. That's not true." And it's, it's, I think it's hard for me 'cause it's still so raw, like I still haven't even fully gone there in therapy, that I don't talk about it a lot 'cause I don't want to be dismissed or questioned over something that is so personal and still really hard for me to talk about, I guess.

Jay Shetty 11:18 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 11:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 11:19 Well, I want to thank you for trusting us and, and me, and being vulnerable, but also talking about the complexity of vulnerability. I think we think we live at a time when if someone is vulnerable, that everyone's response will be like, "Aww," like, you know. Or, A, people think that's why someone's doing it. B, if they don't think that and they think you're just being vulnerable, sometimes it's complex to say, "Well, maybe it wasn't that hard as someone's making it out." And then there's a third where it's like, well, can we just listen to someone's experience and recognize that, I think if all of us reflect, like, I just realized we have so much in common, which I had no idea, and if you looked at it from the outside, I don't think people would think we have much in common at all, which is partly why I love conversations like this, because I'm like, these are the conversations that bring me to life. So- I was bullied for being overweight growing up. I was obese growing up, and so was my wife actually, and so separately, we didn't know each other at the time, but we were both bullied for being overweight. I was bullied for being Indian because there weren't many Indian kids in my school, and so the color of my skin and all the rest of it, I was bullied for that. And I wasn't the coolest kid in school. I was a straight-A student, so I was the o- opposite, and it was like s- and it was considered dorky to be smart where, especially where I grew up. And so I dealt with all of that too. And so when I'm hearing you say that, I was beaten up at school regularly. My mom used to come defend me in school. Like, that was really embarrassing. Like, and even now when people are like, "No way," like, and I'm like, "No, that was my entire childhood." And for me, I turned to listening to Eminem and writing music. So I did a lot of spoken word. I used to produce music. It's why I love word and language and, and just the artistry of what you can do with words. And then when you said you played soccer, which I, which I know, but I'm like, that is my first love. Like, if I could be anything in the world, it would be a professional soccer player, like beyond [laughs] everything.

Alex Cooper 13:09 That is crazy to hear because I agree with you, and that is why I love podcasting and why I love your show, my show, is like you really have no idea what, one, you can connect with someone on, empathize with someone on, or just like learn about them. And I feel like we've gotten to a point where we wanna like discredit and call people out, and it's, it's scary to be open and vulnerable on the internet. And I think like almost my persona, there was parts of me that I had to like try to claw back what I started for Call Her Daddy 'cause I was like, hold on, I need to also like, there's other parts to me other than the salacious, wild, crazy. And I, it, it was a great transition for me, which I know we'll get to, but the bullying thing, when you're that young, and truly all that matters is peer acceptance, and you feel so alone, you hate yourself. And I realized recently, like I know my persona is one thing and I, that's why I always struggle with this. I'm like, ooh, I gotta like ease my listeners into [laughs] like me talking about this 'cause it's a complete different side of myself, but we all have that, right? We all have those things. Like, I remember the first time I shared this with my mother was when I was 21 years old in a cab, that I had been bullied, and I told her, "Mom, in high school I used to put on three pairs of leggings, tape it to my leg, and then put on my school pants just to hope that everyone would think my legs were bigger."

Jay Shetty 14:34 Wow.

Alex Cooper 14:34 And by the time I would have soccer practice after school, a- my, like my joints were in so much pain from sitting in class. And I told my mom this quite literally as we're pulling up to Penn Station. She was getting out and I was gonna keep going. I told her this as she's getting out of the cab, and she's like, "Alex, like what?" And it was my defense mechanism of like I don't really wanna talk about it, but I need to let my mom know what I was going through. When I look back, thank God I had, my father has been the most supportive person in my life with my career, and I'm so grateful for that. Like he, any moment I needed anything, he was like, "Let's go find you... I wanna make a green screen in the basement," and he's like, "Let's go to JOANN Fabrics. Like here we go. Let's go to Home Depot. Like let's get lights." Like it was, I was so fortunate to be raised by people who support me, but I also realized I had these like people-pleasing tendencies because, and I still catch myself doing it in media, like I just wanna be liked because of my childhood, because of feeling left out, and it's hard. And I think comparison, like my best friend was the beautiful doll baby perfect girl that I wanted to be, and it's like there's so many remedies I tried to look up, um, on Google when I was younger of like how to, how to like fix your skin and how to make your legs look bitter, bigger, and is there a procedure? And it was like I just can't believe how much I hated myself. But I truly don't believe I would be sitting here if I hadn't gone through that because-

Jay Shetty 16:04 Yeah

Alex Cooper 16:04 ... I think that's the thing, like you just said, you had no idea what I went through, right? Why I feel like I am half decent at my job is when I sit down with people, there is this empathetic side to me that, yeah, maybe I don't need to talk about, 'cause I don't think I need to prove anything to anyone as to why I'm a good friend, why I'm a good daughter and partner. But like it really does come from-

Jay Shetty 16:24 Yeah

Alex Cooper 16:24 ... feeling so alone and isolated and hating yourself, that in those moments when I'm in my basement making and creating, I had to find a way to love myself because I found like this journal of mine when I was younger, oh my God, it's so sad, and it was like really dark thoughts of like what if I did this? Would then the kids would feel so awful. And it's like whoa. I was really alone when I was younger, and I, I never talked about it, and I had a friend recently that shared similar thoughts with me, and we were best friends, and I had no idea what she was going through, and she had no idea what I was going through. So it's, it's just like a, a reminder of like we really don't know, and I know that's such an oversight thing, but you have no idea what people are going through. And, um, I think especially with social media, we can make judgments, especially snap judgments. You see a headline, you see a picture, but like y- we have no idea what people are going through.

Jay Shetty 17:16 Yeah, absolutely. I, I couldn't agree with you more, and I love the point that you're making that, and I think everyone has it through some way. Whether it was your parents, whether it was your friends, whether it was your peers, there was someone who made you feel less than in your childhood, inadequate, incomplete. And now we're all in our creative endeav- endeavors seeking that completion through whatever role, character, whatever it may be. And I think people forget that half the time the most successful people who do the most incredible things did them because they had this huge gap and a hole to fill, and the world needed to fill that hole and gap.

Alex Cooper 17:55 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 17:55 Only then to realize that that doesn't work either-

Alex Cooper 17:57 Right, right

Jay Shetty 17:58 ... to then have to go the other way, but sorry, you were

Jay Shetty 18:01 gonna say something.

Alex Cooper 18:01 No, I, I agree with you. It's like there's, there's a reason I'm so passionate and interested in what I'm doing. It's because like I love connecting with people. I love- ... learning about people because I know that the dichotomy of Call Her Daddy girl versed ugly, awkward acne girl, it's like you, you don't expect it and you don't really understand it until I fully explain it, which I know I haven't explained yet. But it's, it's when I sit down with people, you l- I love learning about people. 'Cause we're all going through such similar things. It may look different, it may feel a little bit different, but depression, anxiety, um, happiness, love, joy, whatever emotion, like, we are all human beings.

Jay Shetty 18:42 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 18:42 And we, we genuinely actually all can connect.

Jay Shetty 18:46 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 18:46 We, every single person can connect on at least one thing in the world. And so I feel like we've kind of lost that along the way, and I, I hope, I think, with shows like ours, like, I hope it brings a little bit of that authentic nature back. Because we're looking past, like, what could be inside of someone, we're just looking on the surface level, and that to me is a nightmare. Because when I was younger, I didn't want anyone to just take me by my looks because then I wouldn't be given the time of day.

Jay Shetty 19:11 Yeah. It's incredible to hear that. I was literally having the same conversation. I was with one of my clients this morning, and we were talking about this, and he was saying how unrelatable his life has become now through his success and everything that he's gone through. And I looked at him, and I, I was talking to him, and I said to him that, "You know, I'll be honest with you, that whether someone's rich or not, famous or not, if someone goes through a breakup, a breakup hurts the same." Because none of the other stuff is medicine. Like, none of the other stuff is the cure. So whether you have fame and status and wealth, or whether you don't, if you go through a breakup, if you lose a parent, if you lost your job, like, or, or you missed out on opportunity, there is a similar amount of experience, human pain that you go through. And I think what you're saying is really interesting though, like, I think you're talking about that time. People always often ask like, "Oh, what advice would you give to your younger self?" With you,

Jay Shetty 20:07 I'm more interested in like, what do you think your younger self would say to you now? Like, if that acne girl, like, saw you now as you described her, what would she say? What would she think?

Alex Cooper 20:17 If younger me only knew, like, "Alex, you're, you're gonna make it. You're gonna... Like, your dreams are gonna come true. Like, you're gonna get out of this." Um, I remember one of the boys I went to middle school with that bullied me ended up going to my college, and at that point I had a little glow up, okay, Jay?

Jay Shetty 20:32 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 20:33 And, uh, he was, like, trying to hit on me and, and giving me all this attention, and it, it only made me just feel actually awful, 'cause I was like, "I'm the same person."

Jay Shetty 20:45 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 20:45 "I'm the same exact person. If, if not, like, more grown and obviously experienced and have a little bit more of a higher IQ at this point in my life, but I'm the same person to my core, and you're only treating me differently because I got a prescription for Accutane, got some hair dye, got my braces off, put on some muscle 'cause I'm playing soccer. Like, it's quite literally just the physical as to why you're, you're acting differently towards me." I think my younger self would look at my older self and would not even believe it probably. I actually was thinking like, what would I say to someone that's younger and going through this? And it's like, there's nothing of like walk into school that day and stand up for yourself. It's actually, like, find yourself in your alone moments because you're all you have, truly. And so trying to get peer approval, sure, it may make the moment a little bit easier, but, like, these people don't actually matter. They matter to me to my core of who they've made me. Their impact on my, my childhood and making me hate myself. Like, it's so crazy. I always think about before, I would say about before like fifth or sixth grade, we're so innocent. You have no almost concept of even what you truly look like, or, or your peer dynamic, or, "Oh, boys are looking at me, and I don't have boobs yet, and my friend does, and so they're- I'm not on their top five." And I know it sounds so, you know, just dumb and, but it so means so much when you're that young. So I look back and it's like those years where you start especially to be judged for what you look like when we're actually just trying to figure out inside who we are, it's so problematic.

Jay Shetty 22:24 Wow.

Alex Cooper 22:24 I definitely think that it affected m- me of what I w- I put... Then I did put emphasis on my looks. I, I can talk about that in therapy now. Like, hating every single thing about myself, of course. I was like, "I wanna go bleach my hair. I wanna be the girl that I saw on the magazines" And then I did all of that, and I even look back at pictures of myself when I took it way too far. But it was all just for me to try to feel like the women that I thought had it all because of they looked a certain way. I guess I would just tell my, also I would tell my young- younger self, like, "Keep going down in that basement." It sounds creepy.

Jay Shetty 23:01 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 23:01 Guys, my basement was, like, finished, don't worry. And leaning into your craft because in the darkest of moments, creating content actually formed who I am and gave me the strength to keep going, and it made me a full, whole individual in my own right. And when I was getting bullied and when I was going through those hard times, realizing I'm gonna turn my passion into my purpose, that's all I needed to be like, "Okay, let's keep going." So it w- I was really fortunate to find that at a young age, but I think a lot of people do. When you're at a young age and you are going through something so hard, you find that outlet, right?

Jay Shetty 23:40 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 23:40 And everyone has that one thing that they're like, "I love this." And I'm, I'm just fortunate enough to have made that into my career.

Jay Shetty 23:47 Alex, I love listening to you. Like, I am just so happy right now because I'm like, what, what I- we're hearing, and I love what you said earlier, that you're, you're in therapy right now. You're working through this, and so you haven't shared so much of this, but I'm just hearing so much coherence and so much clarity, and it's so beautiful-

Alex Cooper 24:03 Yeah

Jay Shetty 24:03 ... like, hearing someone who's gone through so much pain, so much stress. And yes, externally there's the success, but then to hear the what's happening internally, and you've just reminded me of a moment of my life. I'm just-- I remember being at the final year of elementary school or primary school as we call it in London. And there was one girl that everyone fancied in class, and I, I fancied her too. Like, she was the cutest girl in school. We're, like, 11 years old, so whatever cute means at 11. I think it was the first time I'd ever, like, liked a girl in, like, in that way. I come late to school one day, and everyone's looking at me weird. Like, everyone's really looking at me really strange. And everyone's laughing, and some of the girls, like, in the corner, like, laughing and pointing, and I'm thinking, "What, what happened? Like, what did I miss out on?" I can't remember why I was late. Maybe doctor's appointment, whatever. Then I found out that all the guys who equally fancied this girl had told the girls that I fancied her. So n- not anyone else knew apart from just me, and I was considered the ugliest, fattest kid in school. And so now sh- she knew this. All her friends were laughing, and then the rest of that day, they all stood... I used to be a goalkeeper because I wasn't very athletic at the time. I used to be a goal- and goalkeepers are very athletic, so no, no offense to goalkeepers. At least at that time, when you're a kid in school-

Alex Cooper 25:26 [laughs] It's okay, Jay. We-

Jay Shetty 25:27 Yeah, I'm just like-

Alex Cooper 25:28 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:28 Yeah, you, you know [laughs] it. I'm like, guys-

Alex Cooper 25:30 We gotta clarify

Jay Shetty 25:31 ... just being clear, just being clear. I think goalkeepers are very-

Alex Cooper 25:33 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:34 David De Gea all the way. I, I'm in goal, and all the girls are standing behind the goal, and they're just like, they're like, "Jay, you could never get her. I can't believe you thought it. She's out of your league." And then literally the whole day throughout the playground, like, every time we're playing football, soccer, they're just behind the goal, like, making fun of me, and it, it's such a, like-

Alex Cooper 25:53 No, it

Alex Cooper 25:54 makes me-

Jay Shetty 25:54 ... deep memory that [laughs]

Alex Cooper 25:55 It makes me, honestly, 'cause I think it's, it's interesting. I even watch you. We can smile through it now, but like-

Jay Shetty 26:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Alex Cooper 26:03 ... it honestly makes me wanna cry when I think about it 'cause even hearing that, like, I can picture that happening to you 'cause I, it happened to me, and it, it's so traumatizing when that happens to you, and you literally are just fighting back tears, and you're like, "Just get through it. Just get through it," and all you wanna do is go home, and it makes you hate interacting. It makes you nervous. You get really, like, clammed up, and it's, it's awful. Like, I remember when I was in, um, uh, middle school also, like, my teachers, I went to Catholic school, and I just, like, never thought I belonged in Pennsylvania. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 26:39 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 26:39 I was like, "What am I doing here?" Like, I just, it, it, I knew I wanted to do something that was definitely, like, big, but I also knew this is a very conservative town, and we were shamed for anything regarding anything because it's Catholic. And I remember we weren't allowed to wear makeup, and I was breaking out so bad. Like, it was so awful this week, and it was finals, so I couldn't skip school. Like, I would beg my mom to let me skip school, and she, thank God to my mother, would see when I was really struggling, would be like, "Okay, you can stay home." I put a tiny bit of concealer over some of my acne because I would sit next to this kid that was, like, the coolest kid in school, and he, I would always be so upset 'cause he got to see that side of my face. And in front of the entire class, my teacher, ugh, I wanna call her out, Mrs. G, I'll just say, okay?

Jay Shetty 27:31 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 27:31 I'm, like, getting there. Um, she comes over to the entire class and looks at me and goes, "Alex, you're wearing face makeup. Go to the bathroom and wash it off." She escorted me into the bathroom, made me rub my skin raw in a school bathroom, no soap, just water, scrubbing it off. My face was so red, and I remember just being like, "Can I, can I go to the bathroom?" She's like, "No, get back to class," and I just, trying to hold back tears, and my entire face was inflamed. And I was like, so now I'm not even experiencing bullying from kids. Like, this is like, how does this teacher not know? And she has kids, so it was like, it was a lot. But I will say it made me who I am today. I look back and I'm like, had I not gone through all of that, like I said earlier, I know who I am now. I didn't back then. I was trying to figure it out, but I know who I am now, and I know my morals and my values, and I know that a lot of that stems from the pain that I went through, and I am a very empathetic person. Um, maybe I don't show that a lot on my show.

Jay Shetty 28:35 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 28:35 But, but I, I think it, it's all relative. I'm like, oh, if I could go back, would I redo it? No. Maybe I would've wished I told my parents a little bit more. Um, but still, I think it made me really turn inward, and that created a different level of strength and self-

Jay Shetty 28:50 Yes

Alex Cooper 28:51 ... reliance that, like-

Jay Shetty 28:52 Yes

Alex Cooper 28:52 ... I can't even put into words, so-

Jay Shetty 28:54 That is such a powerful point. I mean, you've made so many amazing points that I'm gonna be drawing together for all our listeners at the end. But, like, that is such a powerful point that I think, and, and I don't wanna tell people to go either way, but there's a different strength that comes from going inward than, than the strength that's required from asking other people for help, and both strengths are important. Like, going out and knowing to ask your mom or your dad or your best friend for help is extremely important, but knowing how to go and ask yourself for help internally is equally important. I think that is such a beautiful point. I've never heard it been put that way.

Alex Cooper 29:31 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 29:32 And, and I love that idea of, because I feel the same way. I felt so isolated and alone, and even today when I feel that way sometimes, but now it's become solitude. It's become a strength because I've got used to depending on myself, and, and I know what that feels like when I'm like-

Alex Cooper 29:47 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 29:47 ... "I'm all I have."

Alex Cooper 29:48 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 29:49 And I know what that feels like, so now it doesn't scare me-

Alex Cooper 29:51 Totally

Jay Shetty 29:52 ... whereas at 12 or 13 or 14, it, it really did. I think one of the things we're talking about is an evolution in identity and awareness, and this has been something that I've struggled with as things have become more public as well because, so I went from being that kid that was bullied to being fairly in with the cool kids in high school to then going to college and being- A budding spiritualist. Like my, my college life, if anyone met me at college, they'd be like, "Jay was like nice, and loving, and spiritual, and, and mindful," and all these things that I was practicing. If you spoke to my high school friends, they'd be like, "Jay was a party animal. He drank too much. He was crazy. Like, he was the class clown, like he tormented teachers." Like, that was my reputation. And so you get this complete dichotomy, and I feel like every transition my external life took, I saw it as an opportunity to become who I wanted to be. So as I left high school, I wanted to become this mindful, thoughtful individual, and that's what I was at college. And then went off to be a monk, which was a whole different external identity. Left that, and now obviously doing all of this for the past few years, and, and so many more in between. But the point is that I've given myself permission to accept that I am the same and different person all at the same time.

Alex Cooper 31:13 So beautiful.

Jay Shetty 31:13 Right? Like-

Alex Cooper 31:14 Yep

Jay Shetty 31:14 ... and I've given myself that permission even when other people haven't.

Alex Cooper 31:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 31:19 And I feel like I'm constantly going through that where I did used to be a monk, I'm not now. I'm married, I have a home, I have businesses, I have money. Like s-

Alex Cooper 31:27 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:27 ... life has changed. But there are parts of being a monk that are still me. I, they- they're still there. I still think like a monk, and there's parts of my lifestyle that are still like a monk, there are parts that are not. So coming back to you, you've also been on an evolution of identities. We've just talked about a very clear one. You then have the beginning of the podcast, which is very well documented. It's all there. I, I don't wanna dive into it. And it, that part of the journey's there. And then now it becomes another label where it's like Spotify, 16... Like it just, it becomes so-

Alex Cooper 31:58 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:58 ... like diluted to a number and a brand.

Alex Cooper 32:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:02 Uh, and you can go wherever you wanna go with this, but the

Jay Shetty 32:04 question I'm asking is what has been the hardest part of that evolution for you to where you are now? And what do you think people misinterpret about that evolution?

Alex Cooper 32:14 It is difficult because I feel, especially as a woman in the industry, I have to tiptoe on not being overly confident. Like, I think women can all feel it. Don't be too much of this. Always veer on the side of just be quiet. Well, I've got a podcast. That's a little bit difficult, right?

Jay Shetty 32:34 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 32:34 So I, I definitely have struggled with the person and who I've become is confident, and I want to embody this confident and determined badass CEO running my life that any woman could do what I'm doing, right? In whatever aspect they wanna do it in their life and whatever their passion is. But it is difficult when then I walk into board meetings or meetings with these men that, and I'm like, I- I'm ta- I'm telling you what I want. And I feel like if a man was sitting here, it would be a very different conversation. If anything, he'd be going light. And so I've struggled with why am I always called the female Joe Rogan? Is- does anyone compare, say, "Oh, Joe Rogan's the male Alex Cooper?"

Jay Shetty 33:23 The male Alex Cooper.

Alex Cooper 33:24 No. We have similar numbers. We have really loyal audiences. We both are with Spotify. Like, and not- no shade to Joe, I'm actually just saying it's frustrating that it is a dequalifier. It's, it's putting me, comparing me... It's not even comparing me, they're just saying like, "Oh, she's basically him, but like as a woman." I don't wanna be compared to anyone. And I don't... It's been hard for me to do it in a way that, yeah, I'm not coming off as like angry and mad. And I think there has been times where I feel like I can't be all in business mode at times as I wanna be, because I'm, as a woman, gonna be labeled. And it's like, uh, no, I actually just know what I want, and I'm a boss, and I am running a huge company, and I have so much going on, and I don't wanna waste anyone's time, and I know what I want. What a concept. So I think it, I think that is something that people have misinterpreted also on the internet of like, oh, she comes off so like... I don't know if, I don't even know if it's aggressive. Like, I think as a woman especially, even if I don't know what I want, pretend I know what I want. Because we're at a time where, as we've seen in the world, we are not equal to men. We don't have autonomy over our bodies. And so it, for me, using my platform right now to be like, let me be the boldest I can be, even if people are a little taken aback, it, I hope it just helps other women be like, "I'm gonna go in today and advocate for myself to my boss," or, "I'm gonna stand up to that per-" 'Cause it's like it, we're getting nowhere if we don't keep shoving it forward a little bit. And I, I've gotten at times a little nervous, and I'm like, I could just sit and do my interviews and stay quiet, but that's not ever who I've been. I've always had an opinion. I'm a Leo, okay? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:10 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 35:10 I know what I want. Um, but it is hard 'cause it's, it's like a, I think there's a lot of people that are a little skeptical of a really, and I hate when people say loud. Am I talking that loud? No. People are like, "She's so loud." I'm like, am I loud, or am I just speaking about something that maybe you don't wanna hear because you don't like change? And we need change. So that's something that I'm currently working on in therapy. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:36 I don't think I've ever done this, but I'm about to clap on the podcast.

Alex Cooper 35:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:39 I don't think I've ever done this for any-

Alex Cooper 35:41 [claps]

Jay Shetty 35:41 Now I'm just gonna clap. I'm gonna take a moment to clap.

Alex Cooper 35:44 [laughs] I love it.

Jay Shetty 35:44 Like, and, and there should be more people clapping. Hello. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 35:47 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:47 Join in. I need some more. Come on, Homer. There, there we go.

Alex Cooper 35:49 Oh my God.

Jay Shetty 35:50 Yeah. Like, we-

Alex Cooper 35:50 Stop

Jay Shetty 35:51 ... like, now-

Alex Cooper 35:51 I'm dying

Jay Shetty 35:51 ... I... No. I, I, and I'm, and I've genuinely never, we've never done that on the podcast ever.

Alex Cooper 35:55 Yeah, I love it. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 35:55 Like this is the only time, the first time that we've done that.

Alex Cooper 35:57 I'm honored.

Jay Shetty 35:58 Uh, I really mean that. Everything you just said, like it's so true.

Alex Cooper 36:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 36:01 I'm totally aligned with you. I can only look at it from the perspective that I grew up with a powerhouse mom who, uh, worked, cooked, raised me and my younger sister, provided for us both when my dad was figuring his life out. Um, my mom was the breadwinner in the house. She was the one who helped me with my homework. She taught me how to shave. [laughs] Like, like, like that's literally who my mom was in my life. And so I grew up seeing- The most powerful woman in the world, in my opinion, as a young boy, and like my mom would take me to all her meetings at night, whatever, whatever needed to happen. And then I was kind of like an older, like a father figure to my younger sister. And so I've seen it in her too, and I've seen like the stuff she's gone through at work and wherever it may be. So I can only empathize from that perspective.

Alex Cooper 36:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 36:51 But when I'm listening to you speak, I'm just like, it's sad that we're still there. Like, it, it, it just pains me. I'm like, how can we still be there? And how can we still be stuck there? And I, I wanna dive into the, the gender part with you, because I do think it's, it's important that we talk about it here. I deal with that in a different way, and I've never talked about this either, but I, I feel like we're both in-

Alex Cooper 37:15 Yeah, we're vibing.

Jay Shetty 37:16 It's... Yeah, yeah. And it's also like I feel understood with you, and I also know that you're, because you interview and you do such an exceptional job with it, it's like [laughs] I feel like I'm getting to like-

Alex Cooper 37:24 Yeah

Jay Shetty 37:24 ... open up my heart.

Alex Cooper 37:25 We're interviewing each other.

Jay Shetty 37:26 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 37:27 Together.

Jay Shetty 37:27 I'm like opening up my heart to you. But no, I, I mean it in the sense of, so I often get perceived as like, "Well, Jay, you're a monk and you're mindful, so you're not allowed to be driven and ambitious."

Alex Cooper 37:37 Mm.

Jay Shetty 37:37 So if I have goals in a business meeting or a PR meeting or whatever it may be, it's like, "Oh, but Jay, how, like you shouldn't have goals, right?" I'm like, "Wait, wait a minute."

Alex Cooper 37:47 Why can't I have both?

Jay Shetty 37:48 Like, yeah, can I not be both? Am I not allowed to be both? Like-

Alex Cooper 37:50 Yep

Jay Shetty 37:51 ... and so people are constantly like, "But Jay, like y-", and, and it's like if, if we reach for something, and I've, you know, I, I come from a background of I was straight As. I, I worked in the corporate world. I'm highly organized. I'm a high performer. It comes naturally to me. And that's me. And then I was a monk, and I have the, the meditative side, and I meditate for two hours a day, and I wake up early and take cold showers and all that kind of stuff. But it's like, to me, I've tried to put both together to create this real world-

Alex Cooper 38:15 Yeah

Jay Shetty 38:15 ... because neither one makes me

Jay Shetty 38:18 happy without the other. So I get the perception of, "Well, Jay, how can you be mindful and driven? How can you be ambitious and meditate? How can..." And I'm like, but that's what we should be encouraging people to be. Like-

Alex Cooper 38:30 I feel like it's because we have gotten so comfortable putting things in boxes. And I love that you're saying that because it reminds me, this is I think such a relatable topic. Take me and my deal and my p- podcast and being a public figure out of it. You mentioned something about how you had these different stages of your life, and I feel like it's so normal and healthy, honestly, to progress and almost be different people of your, versions of yourself and try things out. I remember in high school when I was a little bit more now secure with my looks, okay, and I was now the jock. I was on the soccer team. I was a freshman. I was thriving with my soccer girls. They were like big on campus. And I was still obsessed with making content, right? I was so embarrassed that I was in the video production class because people, the, my video production professor, God bless him, he was I guess people would consider like a little nerdy and a little too techy, and I was like, "I am so honored to be his student and, uh, teach, like have him teach me." He would, we would watch movies after class and, like not in a creepy way, [laughs] um, but he was educating me on film. And before me too, we would watch Alfred Hitchcock. I remember the first time he showed me Psycho. And so I was learning, but I lied to my peers because, so my mom, I convinced my mom, "Please, can we go in and talk to the dean of students? I wanna do video production for all four years as my elective." I never took health, which is interesting, never learned about sex education, okay?

Jay Shetty 39:58 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 39:59 So interesting. Um, but I remember people being like, "Why are you in that video production class for all four years? This is so weird." And I was embarrassed, and I lied and I was like, "I don't know. Like, they think I'm good at it, so like, ugh, whatever. I don't have to take health at least. Like, whatever." I downplayed it. I was so passionate. I loved it more than soccer. It was my, literally my existence. It felt like that is why I'm here. This is what I'm meant to do. But I was so embarrassed because I couldn't be a jock and also a tech girl, [laughs] I don't know, like a tech geek or whatever they would call me. And so I tried to hide that part of myself, and I feel like a lot of people do that. Even hearing you say that, like, "Why can't you be mindful and also determined?" And it's like, I actually think that is the, such a beautiful human being when you can combine all the different parts of yourself to all be in a somewhat cohesive working situation. It's, it works so much better for your mental health. We shouldn't all just be w- narrow-minded. We shouldn't just have one thing that we're focused on. Are you, do you have a relationship? Are you a good friend? You don't act like your, to your romantic partner like you do to your friend. What about are you a good son, a daughter? Like, it all is in the scheme of being humans. We have to have multidimensional parts of ourselves. But something about being in a box, it doesn't work, Jay, if you're both of those, because it can't be true. Well, why not? And I think just talking about it, anyone listening, you should not veer away from a passion 'cause it doesn't align with something other publicly that you're doing 'cause it's like almost a contradiction. I love a contradiction. I, that is what I do on my show. They're like, "Well, you said this last week." I changed my mind. This week, and not in like a, "Okay, Alex, well, we can't believe anything you say," but-

Jay Shetty 41:47 Yeah

Alex Cooper 41:47 ... things change and things shift. But we have to be cognizant of how we're embracing different parts of ourself because if we try to not do that and just stay in one lane, we're not gonna grow. We're not gonna be happy with ourselves, and we're just gonna be appeasing the people around us instead of, what do we want? I appreciate you sharing that 'cause I think it's a really relatable thing of like, how can I be both? Of course you can be both. It's just society has made us feel like, [gasps] well, you're a poser. You can't be both. Which one isn't as true? They're both true.

Jay Shetty 42:16 I'm about to clap again. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 42:17 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:17 Between my visitors like-

Alex Cooper 42:19 Guys, we're just clapping

Jay Shetty 42:19 ... this is it. This is it.

Alex Cooper 42:20 Claps with Alex Cooper is the title.

Jay Shetty 42:22 No, these are all like, these are all TED Talks.

Alex Cooper 42:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:23 Like, it's just one after the other after the other. I'm like-

Alex Cooper 42:26 No, no, no

Jay Shetty 42:27 ... these are, no, but I-

Alex Cooper 42:27 No, you're inspiring me.

Jay Shetty 42:29 No, I'm just, I, I hope it's okay. Like, I don't, I, I'm, I'm opening up because I just feel like the stuff we're talking about is ... is relatable in different ways.

Alex Cooper 42:37 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 42:37 Right? Like, I don't know what it feels like to be a woman in the industry. I never will. I will never be able to be like, "I get that. I totally know what you mean." But I, I get what I'm feeling in the same expression of sometimes I feel told to be quiet. Sometimes I feel told to be like, "Well, Jay, you shouldn't have that desire." Like, I'm told to, like, calm down sometimes. Uh, not because I'm aggressive in any way-

Alex Cooper 43:01 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 43:01 ... but in the sense of just because I'm a driven, ambitious person. So going back to what you were saying earlier, there's a part of it where it sounds like, especially, and I love what you said, like, it's not about, it's not about what Joe's doing, it's not about what anyone's doing, it's just why does everything have to be a comparison? And that then starts to be a respect issue, right? It starts to be an issue in, like, are we giving enough respect-

Alex Cooper 43:27 Yeah

Jay Shetty 43:27 ... to what you've achieved and what you've built, in the same way as are we giving respect to anyone else for

Jay Shetty 43:32 what they've achieved and what they've built? What has been your relationship like with respect?

Alex Cooper 43:37 It's hard because there's a couple dimensions-

Jay Shetty 43:39 Yeah

Alex Cooper 43:39 ... to it, right? My listeners, quite literally, and I know this sounds corny, but, like, truly feel like an extension of myself.

Jay Shetty 43:48 Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 43:48 Like, we have an understanding. We have talked about the most deep, in-depth, maybe taboo topics, uncomfortable topics, and I'm, when I meet the Daddy Gang, shout out, everyone listening, the Daddy Gang. When I meet the Daddy Gang out in person, I always joke because whenever I'm with anyone, they come up to me and they're like, "Oh my God, Alex." I'm like, "Hi, what's up?" A- and they're like, "Okay," and they start talking. And the person that's with me that's my friend or my parent or whatever, they're like, "Oh, who is that? From college or high school?" I'm like, "No, that's Daddy Gang."

Jay Shetty 44:18 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 44:19 They're like, "Wait, how did... Wait, you guys just started talking about her breaku- like, what?" We have this understanding of, like, if you listen to Call Her Daddy, and I'm sure you have that with your audience, like, you build such a rapport. The respect I have for the Daddy Gang and my listeners and people that give me a chance, it is so mutual and it is so beautiful, and I, I can't still to this day believe what has been built of Call Her Daddy and the Daddy Gang and my relationship with them and theirs with me. I think where it co- becomes a little bit of a struggle is in the beginning of Call Her Daddy, it was this beautiful storm, right? A female-led podcast working at Barstool Sports, which people are like, "Oh, is that a misogynistic company?" And it was, like, actually the perfect storm of like, "Oh, I'm a woman and I'm gonna have the biggest show at Barstool Sports."

Jay Shetty 45:12 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 45:12 "Watch me dance," okay? And it was, like, this really cool challenge, but I think because of the nature of the content at the beginning of Call Her Daddy, it, it's difficult because I am in no way, shape, or form, I wouldn't change one thing about the beginning of that show. It was so provocative and in your face, and women needed it at the time. It was like, oh, w- instead of... 'Cause I think the feminist movement has had many different forms, right? It continues to change and evolve. And at that point, as someone who had just graduated college, I was, everyone can be a feminist, right? And you can have a different version of how you associate it with it. But as long as you believe in the equality of the sexes, boom, okay, and you respect women, great. But for me, it was like, if men can say it to us, let's say it right back. And they're not gonna like it, and it's gonna be really uncomfortable, but let's go for it. And I think a lot of people loved it. No, I know a lot of people loved it. The show blew up, and it was controversial, and it was amazing. My struggle was being so proud of what I built, but also we just talked about that box of like, "But I kinda wanna talk about other stuff too."

Jay Shetty 46:21 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 46:22 And I felt like I got pigeonholed into this, like, that's the girl that talks about sex-

Jay Shetty 46:26 Sex, yeah

Alex Cooper 46:26 ... and dating. And it was really difficult for me to respect and acknowledge what had been built and, and it was, it is, like, brilliant what Call Her Daddy original days was. But I also, now I'm 28, and I started it at 22, 23. I don't wanna be the same person I was at 22. I'm not. I have a different outlook on life. I have a greater interest in what's happening in the world, um, in making a difference. I, are, are you kidding me? Out of 22 I was like, "Let's drink, let's talk about sex-"

Jay Shetty 46:58 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 46:58 "... and let's have fun." And that was so, and that's what you should be doing right at that age.

Jay Shetty 47:02 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 47:03 But now as I've tried to transition the show, not because, and I wanna clarify, no one has told me to do this. I made the decision. Because two things happened. In the pandemic, I think when you talk about something like sex, and people are so freaked out by that concept and, and a little nervous to, I, I remember back in the day, engage with the brand, because it was like, "Oh, they talking about sex," that is one of the most intimate topics that you can really talk about, and a universally inclusive topic, right? We all think about it in some capacity, right? I felt like if I can talk that deeply and that openly and that vulnerably on this platform to millions of people, still in therapy about that, why was I so okay doing that? We're working on it.

Jay Shetty 47:50 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 47:50 Okay? [laughs] But the point is, is if I can do that, my audience was ready when the pandemic hit, "We need you to talk about some other stuff."

Jay Shetty 48:00 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 48:00 "'Cause none of us are enjoying our sex life right now, but we trust you enough, Alex. Let's have deeper conversations." And that is when I began talking about mental health. And that is when I opened up and acknowledged I'm in therapy. And the stigma around therapy to, I know, a lot of people is, "What's wrong with you?" My mother is a psychologist. I grew up where mental health was the number one prerequisite in the house of, "How's your mental health? What's going on in your head? Where are you at?" So I think that transition for Call Her Daddy for me felt so organic. It was like, "Of course we gotta talk about more stuff." It's like, eventually you graduate from high school, you gotta go to college, or Algebra 1, we go to Algebra 2. Like, Call Her Daddy is cemented as one of the best sex and relationship podcasts. There's 80 episodes. It is fire. You can learn some amazing tricks-

Jay Shetty 48:47 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 48:47 ... of the trade, okay? But what's next? And- I could feel my audience ready for something new, and I was ready for something new. I wanted to explore other topics, not that I'm not gonna continue to talk about those things. And that, I think, was a difficult transition that some people that don't want change, not my audience, my audience not only stayed with me, but then grew 'cause people were like, "Oh, we're, we're spicing up a little bit. There's more topics. There's more conversations, just not about sex." But I saw people that didn't like the show in the beginning. They're like, "Nope, you're still the sex girl. You cannot be talking about mental health and talking about sex. You can't tell me you're talking about sex in a deep, deep conversation. That has to do with mental health."

Jay Shetty 49:28 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 49:29 "Or you're not getting deep enough," be- well, no pun intended.

Jay Shetty 49:31 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 49:32 But, um, but when I talk about that, it's like what we're going through in the world right now with sexual identity and fluidity and trying to understand. I, I mean, it's so beautiful now that we've started to embrace the concept of non-binary, and it's like letting people do what they feel comfortable doing. That is mental health, and that is sex, right?

Jay Shetty 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 49:54 So I think the struggle of respect has been people not loving me venturing out and straying away from what initially was the bread and butter of Call Her Daddy, and I have been an athlete my whole life. Jay, I love a challenge.

Jay Shetty 50:12 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 50:12 When someone tells me I can't do something, and but I will not lie, it has been so hard. Like, trying to stay true to myself, authentic to the content, but also knowing and cognizant of the fact that there are people that are like, "She's still sex. She- it's just sex." And I'm like, "I- what, what?" And so it- it's a difficult balance, but I've tried to just block out the noise, not read as many of the comments. And now I think through the, the new kind of version of the show, it's so cool that I've taken on these interviews. And kinda like going back to what we kinda said in the beginning, I'm having on these celebrity guests that everyone's like, "Oh, you're gonna have on celebrities now?" But the point was, and it goes back to what we were saying earlier, I love this challenge of like, you're gonna leave and you will relate to Demi Lovato. You will relate to Miley Cyrus. You will relate to Chelsea Handler. Like, the- these people that are coming on that seem so, their life is so unattainable. No, we can relate to them. And I've been fortunate that this new format, and I think through my therapy journey and just because I know myself and I am a warm person, I am so interested in people's lives. I want to understand people better. It makes me better. It makes my audience better. Almost every single time a guest leaves Call Her Daddy, they say, "Wow, I have never felt so comfortable in an interview, and I've never opened up as much as I did in this interview." And I take pride in that because I put a lot of effort into making people feel comfortable because when you're talking about really, really intense topics like we're talking about today, you need to be open-minded. You need to come into it unbiased, and you need to provide a space where it's like, you're safe. Let's have a conversation and no judgment. And I think a lot of these celebrities feel extr-

Jay Shetty 52:02 Oh, tell me more.

Alex Cooper 52:02 Listen, they have so, they have, there is no denying. We're not saying they don't have privilege and they don't have so many resources we don't have. Um, but it's trying to humanize. And I think in a cool way my listeners have loved the new kind of version of Call Her Daddy. And then I guess this is the last part of also, I don't plan. There's one day that I- it's not like I need a episode like this one day and then this. It's every week I walk in and I'm like, "I think I know who I want to interview," because it feels right. And I read all the DMs from The Daddy Gang, and I'm, I still have all my social media accounts. No one runs the Call Her Daddy account or my account. And I just read all these DMs of someone struggling with a narcissistic parent, and immediately I'm like, "Let's get Dr. Ramani on. Let's have her come on. Let's talk about how to survive a narcissistic relationship." Like, it ebbs and flows. I- it- I would love to be like, "I have this perfect structure." I, I am eyeballing it 'cause I also am a consumer and I'm like, "What am I interested in?" 'Cause I'm so, I love being in tune with my audience that I'm able to be like, I know what they want 'cause I want it too. It's an ebbing and flowing relationship with respect.

Jay Shetty 53:09 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 53:09 There's always gonna be haters. There's always gonna be people that want me to fail. But I do think specifically this last year I've come really into my own of like, I want to make amazing content for the people that want to listen, and if you don't want to listen, you don't have to listen. But I always do say give it a chance, 'cause you will be surprised at the new Call Her Daddy. It's different, and I'm really proud of it 'cause I put a lot of work into it.

Jay Shetty 53:29 And you should be. I, I personally am a fan and-

Alex Cooper 53:31 Thank you

Jay Shetty 53:31 ... I've, I've loved the evolution of it. I've wa- I've watched a ton of the interviews. I mean, for me, I couldn't agree with you more that whoever sits in front of me, whether they're a celebrity, whether they're not, whether they're a scientist, a doctor, a, a host, a, you know, whatever they may be, like, I just want to create exactly what you said. Like, we're so aligned on that. Like, create a safe space where people can feel they can be themselves, and they're not being forced to be someone, and they're not being forced to be the one version that we see. But I think what I really took away from what you're saying is that even though you're ri- I, I know what you're saying, that there's no weekly structure. It's not like you're trying to figure out like, "Oh, we're gonna do this and that." Actually, when you hear you explain, when I just heard you explain how sex and mental health are so interconnected, that is very coherent, and that's very cohesive. So even if there isn't a plan every week of who you're talking to, all that kind of stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

Alex Cooper 54:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 54:30 And it's like no one would ever know that or think about that, and this is what I think. We think so shallow now, right? Like, everything's a shallow thought, and when I say shallow, I don't mean the subject matter. I mean how deeply we consider an idea. So Alex has changed what she talks about on her podcast slightly, right? She's still, she's still, uh, doing the sex podcast.

Alex Cooper 54:52 Yeah

Jay Shetty 54:52 She's still talking about those things, but she's also talking about mental health and therapy and whatever she wants to talk about. That's a shallow thought. Oh, she's just- Spotify's told her to do that. She can't talk about sex anymore because whatever, right?

Alex Cooper 55:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 55:03 Like, whatever, whatever it is. I don't know what it-

Alex Cooper 55:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 55:05 ... I'm ma- literally making stuff up. But then when you take that thought deeper, you go, "Okay, wait, when I actually listen to Alex explain it, she's like, 'I should be willing to talk about mental health and sex because they're so interconnected.'"

Alex Cooper 55:15 They are.

Jay Shetty 55:15 "I should be able to talk about mental health and anything in my life because it's so interconnected."

Jay Shetty 55:20 And I, I feel it, I just love that description. Like, I'm just holding onto that.

Alex Cooper 55:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 55:24 That's my biggest takeaway from what you said because I think it's unhealthy mentally, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically for us to think that any subject matter is separate from, from any other-

Alex Cooper 55:36 Of course

Jay Shetty 55:36 ... in the human experience.

Alex Cooper 55:38 I agree, and I feel like especially with sex and having been a woman and trying to now, like, I'm not trying to get away from it, I'm just trying to prove, like, there's other things about me. Ha, what a concept.

Jay Shetty 55:49 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 55:49 And, um, that respect has been something that I keep pushing up against of like, it almost, I think at first, I'll be honest, made me want to go so far away from it because it's what everyone just wanted to pigeonhole me as. And I feel like especially with the season two that's gonna come out of Call Her Daddy, um, at the end of September into October, like, you're going to see a shift. Because I feel like when I was in my 20s, I kinda mentioned this earlier, you're- everyone's self-involved. We're just trying to understand, like, I remember getting out of college being so miserable. I hated my job. I hated my life. I was like, "What am I doing with my life?" You're just trying to quite literally survive. And where I'm at now in my life at 28, I just turned 28, and I feel I genuinely have a different interest for what is happening in the world. Like, I know this may not be the most relatable thing, but, like, I have one of the biggest platforms specifically... Well, I know, I just found out, my show is the number one biggest listened-to show for women on, i- in the world for a podcast. All I think when I hear that, that's great.

Jay Shetty 57:04 Insane.

Alex Cooper 57:04 Let's frame it. My mom may frame it. Responsibility. That's what I take from that. H- how am I not going to start talking about deeper topics and things that are genuinely going to affect generations to come? Having such a big platform, I feel a sense of responsibility of what am I doing? Open my eyes. Start reading the news. Like, I just feel there's a different level that I'm taking this show to, and it's not to become preachy, and it's not to become political, and it's not to become in your face. It's gonna have that same genuine nature Call Her Daddy has always had. I am coming to them just having a conversation. I want both sides to participate. I want people to feel so comfortable. I'm not asking you anything. I'm just wanting people to listen and to maybe have a thought-provoking conversation that could potentially change your mind or strengthen your view on something. I feel like in a world of such snap judgment because of social media, people are inclined to make decisions so quickly based off of a headline or a photo or whatever it is, or gossip. And I, I like how, what I wanna do with Call Her Daddy is wouldn't you feel so much better if you could make your decision with a more 360 POV on something? And that is what podcasting does. Longform sit-downs. Get to know someone. Get to understand a topic, an issue, an argument, and then make your judgment because that is amazing if you leave being like, "I have the same opinion."

Jay Shetty 58:37 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 58:37 Amazing, but now don't you feel better that you have a b- more of an educated opinion rather than a snap judgment? Or most times what people do when they listen to Call Her Daddy is, "Okay, I admit I was judging them. I-"

Jay Shetty 58:49 Yeah

Alex Cooper 58:49 ... "my mind changed."

Jay Shetty 58:50 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 58:50 I just had someone on, and all of the DMs were, "Oh, I don't know if I really thought I liked them anymore, and now I'm obsessed again because I forgot what they went through in their life, and I was completely unattached to the empathy level because all I see is social media posts." So I hope people feel that, and again, I'm not trying to be this, like, preachy, uh, I don't know what I'm doing half the time, you know? But I just feel a sense of responsibility, and I hope that my audience can feel like it's just a journey 'cause what else are we doing here? I want everyone to have fun. We wanna have laughs. We're gonna continue to have that. And especially being a woman right now, it's like if I don't speak up, I'm not doing my job, and I won't be able to sleep at night knowing that I didn't do something that actually was just right in front of me that I could have done, and I have such a platform. And so I'm sure everyone can, uh, know what I'm kind of talking about, but, um, yeah. Vote. 'Kay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:46 [laughs] Well-

Alex Cooper 59:48 Yeah

Jay Shetty 59:48 ... yeah, no, I mean, personally hearing that, I... And you don't need to hear this from me, and I'm, I'm only saying it because I genuinely mean it. And for whatever it's worth, it's like I love that. Like, I personally appreciate that so much because I only went out to start building a platform in the desire to serve. Like, we only, I only started this journey hoping that we'd be able to help people. Uh, it never came from anything else. It started in that place, and it's still in that place today. And when I hear someone who's like, "Hey, I was 22, and now I'm growing up, and this is life," and I, I like look at that and I

Jay Shetty 1:00:23 go, I love people who do that. And you know, a lot of people that I work with in my, in my coaching practice, it's like that's where they are. Like, they became famous through music, or they became famous through movies, or they became famous through whatever, and now they're having that same journey in their life where they go, "Jay, I have like hundreds of millions of people who listen to me, and they care about what I have to say." I don't want to be the person who just has a great home business and life. I, I want to do more than that. And to me, I think when people who have the opportunity to say that, say that, and then go follow it up, that's when the world [laughs] starts becoming a better place.

Alex Cooper 1:01:00 It does, and I, I think it is really- it's a, it's a hard concept, especially when you have a podcast. I don't see all these people, right?

Jay Shetty 1:01:07 Of course, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:01:07 You know, when, when I'm told, "Oh, your, your podcast is also the biggest podcast for millennials and Gen Z," I'm like, "So that is an audience that has the opportunity to quite literally change the world."

Jay Shetty 1:01:18 Change the world, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:01:19 What am I doing?

Jay Shetty 1:01:20 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:01:20 And it doesn't need to be every episode. I, I just think there's a different level of awareness I have right now, and I'm- I don't have it figured out. I, I am not perfect by any means. I definitely present a certain way on social media for my business, but, like, I'm, I'm- what I'm trying to do is just take my education public and just use this platform and not be better than anyone, just genuinely be like, "I'm learning." I literally said to my team, and I was like, "I will publicly say this," like, a couple years ago, I remember when I got out of college, I had to call my dad and be like, "I, I don't know how to... Like, how am I gonna vote, Dad? Like, what? I'm in Boston. I'm from Pennsylvania. Where am I registered? Like, I don't even know how to vote." And I am not ashamed to say that. I think people feel so overwhelmed with certain things in life of w- college does not prepare us for a lot, right? And there's a lot that we're like, "What are we doing?" And I think when you have people on platforms that are acting like you don't know what you're doing, it makes you feel ashamed. It makes you feel-

Jay Shetty 1:02:19 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:02:19 ... insecure, and then you just don't do anything. So I think Call Her Daddy also this season is really trying to just make it ingestible for everyone of like, "I'm with you guys." I am also still... Like, a, a couple years ago, my dad was helping me on TurboTax, okay?

Jay Shetty 1:02:34 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:02:34 I didn't know what I was doing. But I'm learning, and I hope that it's just, I hope that people a- appreciate me just trying to make a little bit of a change because there's a lot of power in podcasting and in these really intimate conversations. That's the best part about podcasting. It is such an intimate relationship that we have with our listeners, and I don't take it for granted, so there you go. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:57 [laughs] No, you're, you're spot on. Like, I think we genuinely close off when we think we're surrounded by a community of people who know it alls or... And, and I think that's when people start to lie. That's when people start to hide. Like, I think everyone, everyone, like millennials and Gen Z, everyone right now feels the pressure to know how to be an investor. Like, because investing is the cool thing.

Alex Cooper 1:03:18 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:03:18 And it's like, if you don't know how to buy an NFT, if you don't, you know, if you didn't know how to buy crypto when it was, like, booming-

Alex Cooper 1:03:24 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:03:24 ... and everyone was, like, talking big, it was like, if you didn't know how to do those things, it was like, "Who are you? You can't be cool." If you don't know, if you don't know how to vote, like, oh, well, then you don't care or all of these things. And it's like, I don't think any of those things were ever explained to anyone.

Alex Cooper 1:03:39 Anyone.

Jay Shetty 1:03:40 And we're just listening to one random 30-second TikTok-

Alex Cooper 1:03:43 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:03:43 ... and being like, "Oh my God, I need to buy that. I need to do this," and I'm like, I fully belie- I fully agree with what you're saying. Like-

Alex Cooper 1:03:49 Yeah. Social media has definitely made us all feel a little bit like we're behind.

Jay Shetty 1:03:53 Yes.

Alex Cooper 1:03:53 Like, what am I missing? Or I, I don't... Oh, I'm not in on that, or I'm feeling excluded, or maybe I'm not cool enough. I don't look a certain way. I don't know how to do something. And it's like, that's what I've tried to take a l- take a little step back from social media recently and really focus on, like, I have the same three best friends since I was six years old. I have my family. I have my relationship. I have my amazing team now of Call Her Daddy comprised of all women. They're amazing. I feel so f- everyone's always like, "What's the best thing that came from your Spotify deal?" And I was like, "That I can now hire a team of these amazing people." But I, I do feel like you have to also, everything's with a grain of salt on social media. Try to also just be more present. Like, I found myself the other month on my phone on TikTok scrolling. I'm by myself. There's a beautiful sunset at my new house, and I'm scrolling on TikTok. And I for a minute had this moment of like, hold on, I'm watching a random girl in her bedroom doing whatever she's doing, and I don't know her. [laughs] And I'm sitting on my couch, n- lovely woman, whoever she is, wasting my time watching someone that I don't know, and this is not changing my life. Go outside, Alex. Go watch the sunset. Go take my dog on a walk. Be present because it gives me anxiety, I realize, when I don't feel good enough. I don't feel pretty enough. I don't feel like I'm fitting the body standard. And then I start to spiral, and it's like, why are we doing this to ourselves? If we know that it's not helping us, let's- I'm just trying to be a little bit more in the moment with my thoughts of, okay, so step back. You can take it out of your hand and put it down, and I know it's quite literally, doctors are comparing it to an addiction. So that's also something that's helped me with my mental health recently is, like, really putting boundaries

Alex Cooper 1:05:46 on social media.

Jay Shetty 1:05:47 What are some of the new habits-

Alex Cooper 1:05:49 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:05:49 ... of this new Alex-

Alex Cooper 1:05:50 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:05:50 ... uh, and, and values of this new Alex that are really becoming integrated into your life? Like, you just said, like, learning about what's happening in the world, like, being well-informed, educating yourself, taking that online. Obviously, therapy we've talked about. Like, what are some of the, I guess, the smaller habits that you've developed?

Alex Cooper 1:06:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:06:07 That's one of them, and that's a beautiful one.

Alex Cooper 1:06:08 I always joked, I'm like, "I'm a vow. I never say this word again." I, in the beginning of Call Her Daddy and shortly kind of in the pandemic, went down a spiral of, like, reading Reddit pages about myself and awful, awful things about myself, and I was crushed. Like I said earlier, being bullied, I am a full people pleaser. I want everyone to like me. If I see that one comment, I'm like, " [gasps] " and then it's gonna affect my content the next week, and I'm going to have a Freudian slip and somehow talk about something that I saw in the comment. I'm trying to, like, oh my God. I, it was about, like, a year or so ago, sat down. I think it was, it was with my therapist, and I said I am never going to open this app again, and if I do, I'm hurting Call Her Daddy. And I almost got- it helped me take it out of myself of like, 'cause I was, it was affecting my content. And, and I, I stopped looking at these people that... I remember I always used to also be like, "They're just hurting in their own life." And we can talk about why people are trolls on the internet for hours, but it's not my problem. I, I, I need to drown that out. Whatever those people are going through, what- why ever they hate me, I know I'm a good person. I know what I'm trying to do. So I stopped reading that about a year ago, and my life, I feel like a different human being. I am taking notes from people that truly care about me, and I'm someone that my, uh, producer was like, "It's interesting. You love a note." I love a note.

Jay Shetty 1:07:43 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:07:43 I love someone to tell me when I'm doing something wrong, what I'm doing wrong. I love a note. And so I s- I don't surround myself with yes people. I'm very... I came to LA, and I had to make a decision of, you know, who I wanted to hang out with, what I wanted to do, and like, I am sticking to the people that I have known my whole life. I am not not open to m- meeting new friends. I have made new friends in LA, but I'm very specific about who I share my time with, and I think that is totally fair to say. And I think sometimes people are like, "Oh, this is that," or, "Oh, you don't have as many friends." I am taking care of my mental health by making sure the people that I'm surrounded with aren't yes people because they're like, "Oh, we want to come and hang out in Alex's cool house with her cool job." It's people that are like, "Check yourself. What's up?" Like, "How are you doing?" And I can do the same to them. And so I have made efforts to make sure who I'm around, not only they- they don't need ma- make me feel good. It's, it's that they're real with me, and they treat me, if all this was gone tomorrow, I know those people are gonna still be there.

Jay Shetty 1:08:45 Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:08:45 And I think with social media, I've kind of just- I've really gone through periods where my, I felt like my whole existence was immersed and defiant or defined by social media. And literally just through meditating, being alone with my thoughts, going through therapy of when you actually dissect, does something make you feel bad? Yes. So why are you doing it? It's so simple, and it is so hard. But the more that I train my brain, it's really helped me. And I think when I go through really awful times on social media, if people are coming at me, if I get the mean comments, this is something that keeps me kind of grounded is I always get through something. In the moment when you are going through something, it is awful, and it can be heart-wrenching. It can, you can feel it physically. You can feel alone. You can feel scared. Whatever feeling comes when something bad is happening in your life. But you get through it. And when you get through it, you look back, and you're always like, "Oh, I wish I could've told myself like, 'Stop stressing. Stop overthinking. Stop...'" So what I've had to do is in the moments of crisis when I'm freaking out, having a panic attack, anxiety, I'm like, "Okay, hold on. In two days, this will be over. Let's go on a walk. Let's take a breath. Let's call people I love. Let's talk to my mom. Let's call my therapist. Let's like take all of the stuff that's happening in my head and just calm, pause, connect with people that love me," and get out of your kind of psychosis that's happening in your brain, and you're going over and over. I always think about like, "I always get through it." I've had so many moments where I'm freaking out. I always get through it. I always... So look at the other side, and it's, I don't know, it's easier said than done again.

Jay Shetty 1:10:30 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:10:31 But like, it helps me be like, "I'm gonna be there in a couple days or hours, so, like, this, it's not as bad as it feels."

Jay Shetty 1:10:38 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:10:38 Um, I don't know if that makes any sense.

Jay Shetty 1:10:41 No. Yeah, it does, it does. I think what you're describing is like everything is simply a pattern of thought, right? It's just a pattern of thoughts, and the current pattern of thoughts we all have are not serving us. They're not helping us. They're not improving our lives. And the hard part is knowing which thoughts to change and then how to change them. And so the tools you just gave us were really simple ways and practical ways that anyone can start changing their thoughts. And if I literally, if we just understood that, that simply by changing your thoughts, you can transform every human experience in the world, whether it's sitting in a cold plunge-

Alex Cooper 1:11:15 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:11:15 ... and you're just changing your thoughts, whether it's, you know, doing a hike in the morning, whether it's just getting to the gym, right? Like, whatever it is-

Alex Cooper 1:11:23 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:11:23 ... it's just changing your thoughts.

Alex Cooper 1:11:24 Totally.

Jay Shetty 1:11:24 And, and it's beautiful to hear you figure that out and, and work through that. So-

Alex Cooper 1:11:28 Also journaling.

Jay Shetty 1:11:29 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:11:29 I've had, when I go through really hard times, I always journal during and after, and then when I'm going through a crisis again, I'll read the after-

Jay Shetty 1:11:36 Yes

Alex Cooper 1:11:37 ... and even the during, and I'm like, "I was spiraling. Look where I am now. I'm sitting on the beach. Like, what?" I'm, or I'm driving to work. Everything's okay.

Jay Shetty 1:11:46 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:11:46 We get through. I, I have gone through people dying, and it's like, it is the worst. It is the worst, but you have to find a way to keep going. You have to find the positive, right? And, and, um, I have a lot of friends w- connected through trauma of things that happened in our childhood, and it's like we, I had my two best girlfriends come and visit me, and they were with me for a week. And we were just talking about life, how am I going to keep going? But then you remember the moment after that where you're laughing on the beach with your friend, and you're like, "Imagine if I didn't keep going. I wouldn't have this beautiful moment with these people." And so it's like always trying to look to the other side, and if you can get there, you can take that breath and be like, "Thank God I,

Alex Cooper 1:12:34 I hung in there."

Jay Shetty 1:12:34 [laughs] Yeah. What, what's a belief that you think you've had about yourself-

Alex Cooper 1:12:38 Hmm

Jay Shetty 1:12:38 ... that you think led you d- down the wrong path? Like, is there a-

Alex Cooper 1:12:42 Ooh

Jay Shetty 1:12:42 ... specific belief that you once had about yourself that you think kind of went the other way? Like you just said, sometimes you have to push through.

Alex Cooper 1:12:48 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:12:48 But sometimes we carry a belief about ourselves, and we end up somewhere we don't want to be.

Alex Cooper 1:12:52 I think because of things that have happened publicly, and there's so many things that have happened publicly for me in my career, I would say it really hurts me when- People assume I'm a bad friend. My entire life, that has been the one thing I have felt I'm proud of myself for, truly. Like, my friendships are so valuable to me, and I take such pride in those relationships. And when you have public things, and it happens to happen with a woman, it's like the person that comes out on top is the villain, and then the person that didn't is the victim. And I'm not, like, going at anyone saying that they're calling themselves a victim. I'm just saying that's how the public perceives it. And so as a woman, it r- it upsets me. And I would find myself really struggling at times being like, "I know I'm a great friend." Like, I had a friend recently say to me, 'cause she's going through something, and almost like through the tools of my show and therapy, she mentioned to me, she was like, "I have never-- I think I've never felt you being a better friend than in this moment. Like, I can't thank you for how much you're taking on for me." And I was like, "I'm in a good place right now. Like, it's all I can picture doing, is- is helping a friend and being there for someone. 'Cause you've been there for me when I've been at the absolute bottom." That's how friendship works, right?

Jay Shetty 1:14:21 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 1:14:21 And I think friendships are so beautiful because you have to choose to keep it moving, keep it strong. A romantic relationship, it's there. You're together all the time. Friendship, that's hard.

Jay Shetty 1:14:32 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 1:14:32 My friends live across the country. My three best friends do not live in Los Angeles, California, and it is a constant effort, and they know me just as much as I know them, and we have been through so much together. But I think that kind of ate at me, and I'm sure you've had it, of like, there's nothing worse than when someone believes something about you that you're like, "Oh," like, "I wanna prove it's, that's not true"-

Jay Shetty 1:14:53 Oh, right

Alex Cooper 1:14:53 ... and I have so many things that could prove that that's not true. But I've had to work on in therapy of like, I can't please everyone. And through do my friends know I'm a good friend, that's all that matters.

Jay Shetty 1:15:07 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:15:07 The internet thinking I'm this or that, like, if you like my show, you're gonna listen. But you're not listening 'cause I'm a good friend. So it's like I need to prioritize knowing who I am, knowing how deeply I feel for these people that I- I consider family. That's all that matters, and I don't need to prove that. But I definitely went down moments of like, "Oh, my God, am I trying to talk about this in an episode and prove?" It's like, Alex-

Jay Shetty 1:15:32 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:15:32 ... you-- if, if I tried to whack-a-mole everything people think about me, I'm not gonna get done interviews. I'll be just doing solo episodes-

Jay Shetty 1:15:40 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:15:40 ... for the rest of my career.

Jay Shetty 1:15:41 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:15:41 So that was something that was kinda hard.

Jay Shetty 1:15:44 Yeah, and there'd still be something about your explanation-

Alex Cooper 1:15:46 Right

Jay Shetty 1:15:47 ... that wouldn't be enough.

Alex Cooper 1:15:48 Yep, yep.

Jay Shetty 1:15:48 And I found that. I mean, I was asked in a podcast a few years ago, someone asked me the question, uh, "What's something you used to value that you don't value anymore?" And it was a really great question, and d- we have the video of it, and I'm, like, sitting there thinking about it. And you can tell it's... You know when you ask a question and you actually have to think rather than like-

Alex Cooper 1:16:07 Yeah, like-

Jay Shetty 1:16:07 ... you've got a million things to say. And I said, "Being understood."

Alex Cooper 1:16:12 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:16:12 I was like, "I just don't value being understood anymore," because it's just, it killed me. That desire I had, and I get that people... It's like for years, I just wanted people to know I was a good person-

Alex Cooper 1:16:22 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:16:22 ... and that I had pure intentions, and I was trying to serve the world, and I was... And I was like, you know what? No one's gonna give me the benefit of the doubt. No one cares. And at the end of the day, I have to lose that desire to be misunderstood, uh, sorry, to be understood, because most people are gonna misunderstand me, and that's okay.

Alex Cooper 1:16:41 That is like-

Jay Shetty 1:16:42 Like, it freed me

Alex Cooper 1:16:43 ... that is so beautiful, because I relate to that deeply, and I love that you're saying that because being understood is so overrated and exhausting. Because who you're mostly trying now in the age of social media to be understood by is people you don't even know.

Jay Shetty 1:17:00 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:17:01 And what about the people you do know? How much time are you putting, are we put... It was a measure for me of am I putting more effort into the people I don't know than the people I do know? That's, check your- yourself, because I've done that to myself, and I love that you said that 'cause it, when you get to that point, it is so freeing 'cause you're like, "I'm me. I don't need-- If I say something people take the wrong way, I don't ne- need to now be like, 'Oh, my God, I promise I'm a good person.'" No, you either know or you don't, and I'm not gonna run around and chase people and try to convince people of my character. I go to sleep at night. I know I am a good daughter, a good partner, and a good friend, and I know I am not perfect by any means. But I am trying every day through therapy, through just looking inward a lot and trying to be with my thoughts and being more present with the uncomfortable silent moments, trying to just be a better person. And I think it sounds corny even when I say it out loud, but, like, what else are we here to do? You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:17:59 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:17:59 Like, do you, are you good with the people you love and who love you? That's kinda all that matters, and the rest is noise. And we have huge platforms, and it's so great, but if all of it ended tomorrow, I would be okay.

Jay Shetty 1:18:11 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:18:12 And I don't think I could've said that a couple years ago. And I don't want it to end. I love you all.

Jay Shetty 1:18:16 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:18:16 But it, it is a, it's a good feeling, 'cause that, then I can really put all of me into the podcast, 'cause it's like, I'm gonna be me, and I'm gonna do me until I don't wanna do it anymore, and no one can tell me otherwise. You know what I mean? So it's, it's kind of a freeing feeling.

Jay Shetty 1:18:32 Yeah, and here's, here's what we know. We know that the people that do listen to us every week, they do know us.

Alex Cooper 1:18:38 Mm-hmm, yep.

Jay Shetty 1:18:39 Like, I feel so seen, heard, and understood by my community that listens to me here. And whether they listen to the solos or these guest episodes, like, I know they know me, they understand me, and I always say that. If you see me on the streets, please come and say hello, because we can have a great conversation. But at the same time as that, one thing I do know is that I read a study that said you have to spend 200 hours with someone- To consider to know them deeply

Alex Cooper 1:19:06 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:19:06 And I started thinking about who in the world have I spent 200 hours with?

Alex Cooper 1:19:12 Whoa.

Jay Shetty 1:19:12 And I started to realize it wasn't that many people, and that wasn't something that made me sad. It just made me value those people so much more. So my best, my best friend, who was my best man at my wedding, I've known him for 18 years and he-- I still talk to him three or four times a week. I don't know where I find the time, I don't know where he finds the time. But every car journey, whatever I'm doing around LA, I'll call. He's in London, so he had an eight-hour time difference too.

Alex Cooper 1:19:34 Oh my God.

Jay Shetty 1:19:35 And he always picks up. We always find a way to connect, and we still-- Our friendship's got better since I left England. And so all my best friends are in London-

Alex Cooper 1:19:42 Yep

Jay Shetty 1:19:42 ... because that's where I grew up. My family's in London. My wife's family is in London. So for us, like I, I totally hear what you're saying. That the statement you made that really resonated with me today on off of what I said was that being u-understood is overrated.

Alex Cooper 1:19:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:19:58 And it's so true, because I would say that I'm still trying to understand even the people I've spent 200 hours with.

Alex Cooper 1:20:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:20:05 So how am I expecting someone who met me once for two minutes-

Alex Cooper 1:20:09 Absolutely not

Jay Shetty 1:20:10 ... to understand 200-hour version of me?

Alex Cooper 1:20:12 I would hope not. I hope I'm-

Jay Shetty 1:20:13 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:20:13 ... complex enough that you can't-

Jay Shetty 1:20:15 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:20:15 ... figure me out in a minute. No, I, I really love that, and I-

Jay Shetty 1:20:18 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:20:19 ... I think it's, um... I think that I always say to anyone in, especially in 20s, 30s when you're out of college, it is so, so depleting at times because you are stripped of that immediate comfort, friends in, you know, proximity-wise, and you're immediately all of a sudden you're across the country and your friend's across, and you're like, "I don't have friends," and it's a really isolating and lonely time. But I would start with, do you have one person? Do you have one person that you can call? That's really all that matters. And of course, we want friend groups, we want friendships, we want connections. Um, we want to go to parties, guys, come on. But you, but you have to just start slow with yourselves and, and, and I think a lot of times in your 20s it's a re- you almost get dismembered and you have to build yourself back up, and we're really hard on ourselves with those friendships. It's so much easier said than done, but, um, it is a great reward when you can maintain those, 'cause it's-- they're beautiful. And like I said, you're not having sex with these people hopefully-

Jay Shetty 1:21:14 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:21:14 ... so your friends are just there because they love you-

Jay Shetty 1:21:17 Hopefully

Alex Cooper 1:21:17 ... for your-- Hopefully. Um, gets messy. Don't do it, guys

Jay Shetty 1:21:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:21:20 Um, but no, it's a really, it's a really powerful relationship.

Jay Shetty 1:21:24 Yeah. We've talked about friendships and I wanna talk about relationships a bit because it's, it's a big thing here-

Alex Cooper 1:21:28 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:21:28 ... at, uh, on On Purpose. And I'm asking this because for me-- And this is what we do, right? And this is why I'm, I'm very clear on this, and this is one of the best skill I learned from training to become a coach-

Alex Cooper 1:21:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:21:39 ... was to not project my intentions onto other people's actions. So what we often do is when we see someone who does the same thing as us, we assume they did it because of the same reason as us.

Alex Cooper 1:21:53 Oh.

Jay Shetty 1:21:53 So if you see someone lie to someone, if you're someone who would lie to someone because you don't want to upset someone's feelings, you're like, "Oh, they lied to them because they don't want to upset someone's feelings."

Alex Cooper 1:22:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:22:02 But if you're someone who didn't do something because you were jealous of something, when someone doesn't do that same thing, you're like, "Oh, that's 'cause they're jealous of them." So we project our intentions onto other people's actions.

Alex Cooper 1:22:12 So interesting.

Jay Shetty 1:22:13 And so I'm, I'm projecting now, and so I'm, I'm, I'm being very honest-

Alex Cooper 1:22:17 I love it

Jay Shetty 1:22:17 ... and open about it. My wife and I have been together for 10 years, long before I, my, my public life, and we got married six years ago. And I started creating content online around the same time as we got married. We'd already been together for four years. And I'd been creating offline content for 10 years before I started doing online content, so I did events and I spoke and did seminars and workshops and coaching and all this stuff. Anyway, for the first three years of my content life, no one knew I was married. Uh, it wasn't that I didn't talk about it, it's that I used to make four-minute videos on Facebook and YouTube, and those four-minute videos were based on ideas. Long form content hadn't really taken off, and I didn't really feel to post selfies with me and my wife because I was gaining traction from talking about philosophy and psychology and ideas that I cared about. And we just got married too, and it was all new to us. It was like all of a sudden, like when I would post that I was at a restaurant, people would turn up and things like that. And so I was very protective of my mom, my sister, my wife, and just everyone in my life. And then my first ever podcast episode was me interviewing my wife-

Alex Cooper 1:23:25 So good

Jay Shetty 1:23:25 ... and us talking about how we met and our journey and everything else that came with that, and that was in 2019 when we talked about it. I am so grateful that I didn't do it before then because it gave my wife time to, A, acclimatize to the new life we'd created. It gave her a sense of stability in what we were doing and where we were going, and it helped me deal with what I needed to deal with in this journey. It wasn't something I would even say I was fully conscious of. I guess my question

Jay Shetty 1:23:54 to you is, do you think having a relationship that you're open about but that is private consciously improves the quality of relationship you can build? I'm projecting that I think it's healthy-

Alex Cooper 1:24:06 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:06 ... but you don't have to buy into my projection.

Alex Cooper 1:24:09 You know what? I'm gonna buy in, okay?

Jay Shetty 1:24:11 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:24:11 Um, I, I do. I definitely-- I- it's interesting, 'cause when I met my boyfriend, I had already podcasted about him before our first date, and he-- I, I remember podcasting. I was in Los Angeles and we were going to a dinner, and I'm podcasting about my wants and my needs and all the things that I'm expecting for this date to go. This-- I'd never met this man in my life. Um-

Jay Shetty 1:24:36 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:24:36 ... classic Alex just going for it for the podcast. Gotta give The Daddy Gang what they want. And I show up to the date and halfway through I'm like, "Oh, you're gonna be on next week's episode." And he-

Jay Shetty 1:24:44 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:24:44 ... is a very private person and he was like, "What?" And I was like, "Mm-hmm. It's gonna be so good, and then I'm gonna go back and record whatever happens at the end of the night."

Jay Shetty 1:24:52 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:24:52 And he was like so shocked. I will say, I think he thought it was quite charming. I love how men are always like, "Oh, I don't wanna be on." They love being on.

Jay Shetty 1:25:00 Yeah. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:25:01 Um, but with him it was interesting because I, I went all the way in and I started talking about him from the beginning, and then I had to pull it back because I realized- Oh, whoa, this is a real relationship. And I have so much respect for him, and he's in the, um, entertainment industry, um, but he's private. And he, he in a great way, this is how I knew he was the one, he never said, "Don't talk about me," but he asked that we just have conversations about it and just keep talking about it. And I've had past relationships where it was like, "F your show, I don't care." And he has such a respect for my craft that he recognizes that is kind of what you do for a living, and your life is your living. Um, but I did start to pull back, and I know it's not fun to hear, but my relationship couldn't be better because of it. All of a sudden, he didn't have to wake up in the morning and press play and listen to what I said. And, and we weren't, um, getting DMs about our relationship, and it really allowed us to just be present of, "Hey, do we like each other?"

Jay Shetty 1:26:11 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:26:11 I- I've said to people, I- and I'm not judging people that post on social media with their partner. I al- I always just like to hip check myself, and then I just tell people what I'm doing, and if you want to, you know, do it too. But it's like there's some relationships I worry, are you just together still 'cause the public loves you? And that is not healthy. And I think that with social media, people can become addicted to the concept of this perfect relationship and what it looks like. Well, what is it like behind closed doors? I am so fortunate that I don't have that with my partner. I'm with him because I love him, and I love our relationship, and none of it is contingent upon either of our jobs. So that's been very healthy. Was it hard? Yeah, of course. There's great content in there, and occasionally I will share. Um, but I, I told my listeners one rule that I implemented with my partner was if we have an argument or a fight or a disagreement or whatever, and it's an open wound at the time for the relationship, I made the mistake once of going and talking about it on the podcast too soon, that we hadn't even healed. And my partner is so mature that he was like, "I love you so much, but I think we need boundaries," because hearing that is not fun, and it almost made it worse for me because we haven't resolved it. And so now I have this like, I have a boundary where it's like a couple months later I can totally talk about it. 'Cause he was like, some of our arguments are great for couples to think about and talk about. Um, they're very relatable. But I think in the moment it's always good to just put my relationship first, and it doesn't mean I'm not putting the show first. It's just having a good set boundary that I didn't have before, and I'm really, really happy I've done it.

Jay Shetty 1:27:48 Yeah. I've loved hearing today about how many different boundaries you put into different areas of your life.

Alex Cooper 1:27:52 I am putting boundaries up, Jay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:27:52 You're like winning, yeah, winning at boundary setting. Like, no, but it's so important because I think the problem is that we think of life as either/or, and life is more boundaries and layers and levels, and it's like we think, "I'm either close to this person or I'm not." And I'm like, no, you're closer to this person than this person.

Alex Cooper 1:28:12 Yep.

Jay Shetty 1:28:12 It's not that you're close or not, and I think when you start looking at life as degrees and, you know, you see a little ripple in different degrees versus like yes or no.

Alex Cooper 1:28:22 Absolutely. And I think the concept of, again, this is all for public consumption.

Jay Shetty 1:28:27 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:28:27 Posting your partner for people, in my case, that don't, I don't know, right? And even a lot of people, even if you have 1,000 followers on Instagram. Do you have 1,000 friends? Absolutely not, Becky. Okay, you do not have 1,000 friends. So I always am also just like, what is the motive behind posting your partner? Is it to get validation that you're not getting in the relationship? Is it to seek approval? Is it to show off something that you're proud of? But well, if you were super, you know, confident, like would you need that exterior validation, right? And again, I'm not saying not to post your partner. It's really just, I think with social media, we've been so quick to just throw stuff up about our life and it's like, well, why are you doing that? Who was that for? Why do you feel the need to show people that you don't even know how your relationship is going and write these long captions about it? I totally get trying to connect with people. Um, but there is a, a level that I started to find of like, hmm, I think I'm just doing this 'cause this like is helping content. It's not good for my relationship. I need to pull back.

Jay Shetty 1:29:28 Yeah. And I love that who it's for question, because I do that exercise with myself when I post stuff. Like, I post certain things and I know no one cares-

Alex Cooper 1:29:36 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:29:36 ... but I really care about it.

Alex Cooper 1:29:38 Great.

Jay Shetty 1:29:38 Like it's re- like it's a big deal for me or whatever, and then I'll post and I'll already tell Jim, I'll be like, "Do not look at the l- likes, do not look at the comments. I know it's gonna do terribly, but it's really important to me, and I want it to be out there because to me that's really, really, you know, powerful." And, and obviously we, we only put out things that we think are powerful, of course, but there are certain things that I know no one cares about apart from me. And at the same time, I think for me, what I was getting at was that three years of being married for me and my wife gave us a sense of getting to know each other in that way without having to deal with any opinions, any... Like right now, all we ever get when we post anything is just you guys look like brother and sister.

Alex Cooper 1:30:16 No, stop.

Jay Shetty 1:30:16 And I'm like, that's like, that's not what I would have wanted to hear when we just got married. So I'm very happy that we didn't-

Alex Cooper 1:30:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:30:23 ... because that's all we ever get. And so I'm like-

Alex Cooper 1:30:25 That's amazing

Jay Shetty 1:30:25 ... all right, this is, this is great. Like, so-

Alex Cooper 1:30:27 But that's the thing, you're never gonna-- It's re- there's always gonna be the negatives.

Jay Shetty 1:30:30 Totally, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:30:30 And so that's what also I'm, I'm really protective of it because I'm like, I'm so happy, he's so happy, our families love each other. We're doing good. We are by no means a perfect couple, but I have no interest right now in opening that up for public consumption to just w- have an opinion.

Jay Shetty 1:30:50 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:30:50 I don't need it. I want to know, am I in this because I like him? That's it.

Jay Shetty 1:30:55 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:30:55 Great. Stick with it.

Jay Shetty 1:30:56 Last question on relationships.

Alex Cooper 1:30:57 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:30:58 I think a lot of people ask, like, you know, what do you look for in someone? I think for me it's the opposite way around, like what do you think you want someone to bring out in you-

Alex Cooper 1:31:06 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:31:07 ... that you see as a healthy relationship? Like what are you happy being when you're in a good place?

Alex Cooper 1:31:12 I'm a lot [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:31:13 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:31:14 I'm self-aware enough to know I'm a lot, and really when I say I'm a lot, I think my job is a lot, right? And I, I am so passionate. Like I've said, I've been doing this since I was so young. I would be making these videos. No one was seeing them.

Jay Shetty 1:31:29 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:31:29 I was acting like they were gonna be up for an Academy Award. No one was... My parents were barely watching them, okay?

Jay Shetty 1:31:33 Do you still have them?

Alex Cooper 1:31:34 Oh, they're awful. Yeah, I have them.

Jay Shetty 1:31:35 We need them.

Alex Cooper 1:31:36 I have... It, it's-

Jay Shetty 1:31:36 We need them

Alex Cooper 1:31:36 ... it's shocking. They're like, "We're gonna play it one day at your wedding." I'm like, "So I'm not getting married, then."

Jay Shetty 1:31:41 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:31:41 Um, but the point is, is I, I have always felt like what I'm doing and my passion is so a part of me, and I need a partner that is going to support me, especially in a heterosexual relationship. Can a man be okay with, I'm okay if I'm the breadwinner. It's not the case in my relationship. We're pretty equal. But it's like I need to be able to be myself, and I need my partner to not be intimidated by my success, not try to hold me down. Let me be me, and you be you, and if we come together and we make each other better, amazing. But I've had relationships with men where they were extremely intimidated by my success.

Jay Shetty 1:32:23 Of course.

Alex Cooper 1:32:23 And it was constantly trying to push me down, um, language that was semi-abusive of trying to make me feel less than, and it was really toxic, and it affected me. And now being in a healthy relationship with someone that is like, "You are incredible. I support you," is like my number one cheerleader, that to me is the hottest thing that someone can do, and I'm so attracted to my partner because of that. I also think someone that is so honest. My partner is so honest with me. Sometimes I'm like, "Oh, my God." I- it's like I'm not used to the honesty, and I really respect that, because I am a no-holds person. I'm like, "What's up? What's going on?" And, uh, to meet my match kind of with that, we do no dance arounds. Like, it is just like what is up? And I know some people don't like that. You need a little, like, cushion. I am like, "Hit me where it hurts. Let's get this over with."

Jay Shetty 1:33:12 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:33:13 So I think those two things, the honesty, um, and also just allowing me to be who I am. And I know it sounds pretty straightforward, but a lot of people try to change each other. You're laughing. What did I say? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:33:24 No, [laughs] no.

Alex Cooper 1:33:24 What did I say? Jay's like-

Jay Shetty 1:33:25 No, no

Alex Cooper 1:33:26 ... "I relate. I relate."

Jay Shetty 1:33:27 No, no, yeah, I'm laughing because you literally-

Alex Cooper 1:33:30 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:33:30 ... there was something you said that just, like, just totally reminded me of something this weekend. So anyway, but carry on.

Alex Cooper 1:33:35 No, no, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:33:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:33:36 It's, it's-

Jay Shetty 1:33:36 I'll tell you in a second. Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:33:36 ... okay, okay.

Jay Shetty 1:33:37 Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:33:37 The point is, is you- I've learned in relationships, like you talked about projection, there is so much projection. If you don't work on yourself and whatever your form of therapy for yourself is, if you don't know who you are, you're gonna go into a relationship and quite literally look for the things you want out of that person, and you're gonna b- put unrealistic expectations onto this person, and you don't even know if you actually like them, 'cause you're just trying to get what you want. It's like, wait, you don't even like the homie. Like, get-

Jay Shetty 1:34:06 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:34:06 ... out of here. Like, and so I think stripping it down to do you like them as who they are as a human being and not, honestly, also for how they make you feel all the time.

Jay Shetty 1:34:13 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:34:14 Do you like them as an individual, and do you two match up? Of course you want them to make you feel good, but I think sometimes we project our wants and our needs and everything onto a person. It's like, hold on. Work on your own-

Jay Shetty 1:34:24 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:34:24 ... and then come back and see if you like the person, 'cause a lot of times the person you're with is just fulfilling something that's an insecurity of yours. If you filled that insecurity, would you still need to be with that person?

Jay Shetty 1:34:34 Absolutely.

Alex Cooper 1:34:35 No.

Jay Shetty 1:34:35 Absolutely.

Alex Cooper 1:34:36 Oh.

Jay Shetty 1:34:36 Well said. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:34:37 Therapy session 101.

Jay Shetty 1:34:38 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:34:38 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:34:39 No, I love it. I love it. You remind... So I w- I was doing something important last week, and my wife is that-

Alex Cooper 1:34:45 Oh, doing something important as in being at a wedding?

Jay Shetty 1:34:48 Yes.

Alex Cooper 1:34:48 I was gonna open this entire episode with, "So how was the wedding?"

Jay Shetty 1:34:51 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:34:51 I'm gonna start interviewing you.

Jay Shetty 1:34:52 I will tell you that separately.

Alex Cooper 1:34:53 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:34:53 I will tell you about it offline.

Alex Cooper 1:34:54 Okay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:34:55 I will tell you about it offline. But I was- I was preparing for something last week, and my wife is that person to me. So I know that... And, and I have an amazing team who's very honest with me, for sure. Like, I definitely, like, we literally were look- we're looking at headshots for, like, my book coming out next year, and so the team was like, "Look," and we were like, "Nope, nope, no." Like, with, I'm doing it with my team.

Alex Cooper 1:35:14 Yep.

Jay Shetty 1:35:14 And it's always the most painfully thing of, like-

Alex Cooper 1:35:16 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:35:16 ... looking at your own face and all.

Alex Cooper 1:35:17 Ugh, no.

Jay Shetty 1:35:18 Yeah. And anyway, but my wife, like, takes it to another level. So she's like, "All right, do your speech in front of me." So I'm like, "All right, I'm gonna do it."

Alex Cooper 1:35:24 Oh.

Jay Shetty 1:35:24 And, and I set myself up for it every time, 'cause I know she's gonna give me really good feedback.

Alex Cooper 1:35:29 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:35:30 But my male ego can't take it. So I'll do it, and then she'll be like, "Oh, yeah, but this part didn't make sense." I'm like, "No, but this is why I did it that way." [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:35:38 She's just like, "But I'm telling you-

Jay Shetty 1:35:39 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:35:39 ... as a viewer, and you're not gonna be able to explain to everyone why you said this."

Jay Shetty 1:35:42 Totally.

Alex Cooper 1:35:43 So.

Jay Shetty 1:35:43 And I'm get- and I get super defensive, and then she's like, "But say it like this," and then I'm like, "No, but the way you just said it didn't sound good any-" And it's like I get so defensive, but she s- and then I took all her feedback.

Alex Cooper 1:35:53 Yep. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:35:53 [laughs] And, and I did it, did it exactly that way.

Alex Cooper 1:35:55 That is... No, that is iconic. Also, my boyfriend did that. He had a speech he had to do at his brother's wedding, and we were upstairs in the room, and he's practicing. He's pacing. He's freaking out. And I'm like, "It's coming off weird when you say it like that."

Jay Shetty 1:36:05 Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:36:05 "It's not hitting. You're trying to be funny. You're not funny, okay?"

Jay Shetty 1:36:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:36:08 Like, he's like, "Oh, okay." And I was trying to give constructive feedback, and he was freaking out.

Jay Shetty 1:36:13 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:36:13 And he's, like, losing his mind, and I'm like, "Sit down. Let me rewrite it for you. I'm the comedian in the relationship. Let's move forward." And it was funny, though, 'cause he was really freaking out, but then at the end of the day, he's like, "Okay, I trust you."

Jay Shetty 1:36:25 Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:36:25 It's like you gotta do a little push and pull, and then you're like, "Okay, shit, I trust you. Thank you."

Jay Shetty 1:36:28 Yeah, and then there's some stuff that I just hide from her in the practice-

Alex Cooper 1:36:31 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:36:31 ... 'cause I know I wanna do it anyway. [laughs] And so then I don't show her that bit, and then she was like, "Oh, that bit was really good." I'm like, "See? If I showed it to you, you would have thought-

Alex Cooper 1:36:39 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:36:39 ... it was good," so.

Alex Cooper 1:36:39 But, but the constructive criticism was good, and then you added your little flair, and it all went well.

Jay Shetty 1:36:43 Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:36:44 Okay, good.

Jay Shetty 1:36:44 Exactly.

Alex Cooper 1:36:44 Good,

Alex Cooper 1:36:45 good, good, good.

Jay Shetty 1:36:45 Exactly. Uh, Alex, we end every On Purpose episode-

Alex Cooper 1:36:48 Okay

Jay Shetty 1:36:48 ... with, uh, two, now two, you're the, uh, first person to ever do this.

Alex Cooper 1:36:52 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:36:52 Uh, so we have our Fast Five, but we also have our new segment, which very aptly is called The Many Sides of You, one word. Um, we're, we're still figuring out the name.

Alex Cooper 1:37:01 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:37:01 We're, we're getting there. We're getting there. Um, but we're gonna do this. So what this is, is you're gonna give a word for every one of these things, just one word.

Alex Cooper 1:37:08 Oh, God.

Jay Shetty 1:37:09 And it's all about you.

Alex Cooper 1:37:10 Oh, God.

Jay Shetty 1:37:10 So, so are you ready?

Alex Cooper 1:37:12 I don't know if I like this.

Jay Shetty 1:37:13 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:37:14 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:37:14 All right. What is a word or phrase to describe what someone would say about you when they meet you for the first time?

Alex Cooper 1:37:21 I would say Warm and trustworthy, which is really weird. Oh, I forgot you said warm in the beginning. I-

Jay Shetty 1:37:30 That's fine, though.

Alex Cooper 1:37:31 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:37:31 I, I agree.

Alex Cooper 1:37:32 You-

Jay Shetty 1:37:32 Obviously agree. Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:37:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had a lot of people that just ... I think, a- again, on social media, you think one thing of me, and then you meet me, and you're like, "Oh, wait." Like, she's ... I had a, I had a w- waitress I met this past week, and she DM'd me after and was like, "I didn't think you'd be that nice." I'm like, "Guys, I'm, I'm not a scary person."

Jay Shetty 1:37:48 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:37:48 But I, I do think I have, um, a warmth that makes people feel really comfortable.

Jay Shetty 1:37:52 Yeah. I beli- I agree. Okay. Uh, what is a word someone that knows you very well would use to describe you, or a phrase?

Alex Cooper 1:37:58 Ooh, determined. Sometimes scary.

Jay Shetty 1:38:01 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:38:02 I, I think my boyfriend and my parents are like, "Oh, God. Here she goes." Like, I'm like, "I'm gonna finish this, and it's gonna be the best thing." And they're like, "Okay, just get out of her way. Here she goes." Like, very determined.

Jay Shetty 1:38:11 I love that. Uh, what is a word or phrase you would u- use to describe yourself?

Alex Cooper 1:38:16 Loyal and passionate. Those two things, like, r- resonate so much with me in, in two completely different ways, but a, a part of who I am truly is my craft, and I'm, I'm so passionate about it. Even if I made no money on it tomorrow, I would go ba- I would still be making content, and I'm also passionate about anything I'm doing in my life. I have to be passionate about my family, my relationships, my friends. And loyalty to me is number one. I respect anyone that's loyal, and to me it's, like, the number one thing on the list of, of something in a relationship that I look for, and I take pride in being loyal.

Jay Shetty 1:38:49 I love that. That's beautiful. I love those qualities.

Alex Cooper 1:38:51 Yeah. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:38:52 Easier than asking you what your values are. I like it. Uh-

Alex Cooper 1:38:54 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:38:56 What, what is a word that maybe someone who, who doesn't like you would say about you?

Alex Cooper 1:39:00 Ooh.

Jay Shetty 1:39:00 How would they describe you?

Alex Cooper 1:39:01 Um, cocky.

Jay Shetty 1:39:02 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 1:39:03 Damn right.

Jay Shetty 1:39:04 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:39:05 Damn right. You gotta be.

Jay Shetty 1:39:06 I love it. I love it.

Alex Cooper 1:39:06 You gotta be.

Jay Shetty 1:39:07 And the last one: What is a word or phrase you're trying to embody, something that you're working on right now?

Alex Cooper 1:39:12 Intentional.

Jay Shetty 1:39:13 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 1:39:13 I, I really am trying to in every aspect of my life always ask, "What is the objective?" Try to be more intentionable out, about things because I think when you do things with care, everything is better. People feel better about it.

Jay Shetty 1:39:27 Mm-hmm.

Alex Cooper 1:39:27 You feel better, and also it just ... There's a, a different radiating effect when you're intentional about things. So whether it's in my relationships or my craft, like, I'm very trying to be intentional, especially this year.

Jay Shetty 1:39:39 I love that. That's a great word.

Alex Cooper 1:39:40 This is a good game.

Jay Shetty 1:39:40 That was great. You did good.

Alex Cooper 1:39:42 This is a good game.

Jay Shetty 1:39:42 You did good.

Alex Cooper 1:39:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:39:42 All right. These, these are the final five, but before we do that, I want to ask you, Alex, like, was there anything that you shared that you ... Oh, sorry, anything you haven't shared today that you really wanted to share or something you wanted to talk about? And I, I mean, I'm, I'm asking this online, offline as-

Alex Cooper 1:39:55 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:39:55 ... just to honor you in terms of if there, if there's-

Alex Cooper 1:39:57 Thank you

Jay Shetty 1:39:57 ... something that we've missed, or do you want, do you want to dive more into, like ... And I, and I'm happy to 'cause I could talk to you for hours. I have no time limit. I, I'm happy to dive into you with, like, talking more about the entrepreneurship side and the craft side-

Alex Cooper 1:40:08 Um

Jay Shetty 1:40:08 ... and the business side or-

Alex Cooper 1:40:08 I mean, I think in a, in a really cool way. I, I didn't-

Jay Shetty 1:40:11 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:40:11 ... I didn't know where this was gonna go today.

Jay Shetty 1:40:13 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:40:13 And I'm really happy. I, I hope that who I am behind the camera kinda came out today.

Jay Shetty 1:40:20 That's my hope.

Alex Cooper 1:40:20 And I guess I would just say to anyone listening, and this is not, like, a plug for my show. It's more like I really ... I think this year I've tried to start, especially when I'm sitting down with people, to give people the benefit of the doubt and a chance to hear even if I have misconceptions about someone. And so I just hope anyone listening, if you maybe had a judgment about Call Her Daddy back in the past or of me, I ask just to be open-minded and, and kind of just give it another chance because, one, I think everyone deserves that, and two, I, I really am proud of what I'm doing, and I'm proud of the show and the direction it's taken, not to say that I'm not proud of the past. But I, I think people would be surprised at, at where it's gone and how much it's grown, and I just would ask for a chance and give it a listen. And, um, yeah, that's it.

Jay Shetty 1:41:10 I love that. I love that.

Alex Cooper 1:41:11 Thank you. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:41:11 And I, and you're doing it, and, and honestly from- Like I keep saying, you don't need it from me, but whatever it's worth, it's like I just love watching people grow and try new things and take risks and, like, do something that's fresh and new. And then everything you said about impact and responsibility and even the interviews you have done, like, for me it's, it's beautiful to watch that. And so, you know, congrats not on the s- external success, of course on that, but more on, like, doing the hard thing, right? Like, that's what's more interesting to me, and I think as a creator and as a host, it's like doing the hard thing. It's like to keep feeding whatever everything and everyone wants is easy, but to actually switch and say, "I've changed, I've grown, I've evolved, and this is where I'm going now," that, that ... And that's where so many people at 50, 60, 70 years old feel so empty, because for the last 25 years they just did what other people wanted them to do.

Alex Cooper 1:42:06 Totally, and it's like you gotta go for it.

Jay Shetty 1:42:08 I just don't want to be in that position.

Alex Cooper 1:42:09 Mm-mm. No. Anyone listening, if you've wanted to do something, you gotta go for it, 'cause we have literally no idea how much time we have here, and that's what I'm doing with this. Especially this season I'm like, "Oh, I'm going for it." I believe in something. I'm gonna go for it, and I will, I'll handle whatever comes with that.

Jay Shetty 1:42:25 Yeah. I love that. All right, Alex. I've got five questions left for you.

Alex Cooper 1:42:28 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:42:28 These are, these are the Fast Five.

Alex Cooper 1:42:29 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:42:30 Uh, what is ... Okay, Alex Cooper, these are your Fast Five.

Alex Cooper 1:42:33 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:42:33 Uh, question number one: What is the best advice you've ever received?

Alex Cooper 1:42:36 Oh, this is so generic, but it's so true. It's from my mother. Be yourself. In a world of people trying to tell you what to be, what to do, be yourself. Know yourself. And the journey of knowing yourself is gonna be just as long if you're gonna know yourself or you're gonna go with what people want you to be. Be yourself. It's so much for mor- more rewarding at the end of the day.

Jay Shetty 1:42:55 I love it. All right. Second question: What is the worst advice you've ever received?

Alex Cooper 1:42:59 Um, be quiet.

Jay Shetty 1:43:00 Mm.

Alex Cooper 1:43:00 Where would that have gotten me? Guys, I mean, a microphone, myself, here we go. Don't be quiet. Speak your mind. Go for what you want, and bulldoze through doors.

Jay Shetty 1:43:09 Question number three, what position did you play in soccer?

Alex Cooper 1:43:12 Center midfield.

Jay Shetty 1:43:13 Okay. All right.

Alex Cooper 1:43:14 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:43:14 That's cool. I was center attacking midfield, so-

Alex Cooper 1:43:16 Oh, that's great

Jay Shetty 1:43:17 ... same idea

Alex Cooper 1:43:17 Also, sometimes I would go on the flanks.

Jay Shetty 1:43:18 Yeah

Alex Cooper 1:43:19 Um-

Jay Shetty 1:43:19 Basically my role, for anyone who doesn't know soccer, my position would let Alex's role do all the running.

Alex Cooper 1:43:23 Yeah, yep.

Jay Shetty 1:43:23 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:43:23 Thanks. Thanks a lot. Yep.

Jay Shetty 1:43:25 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:43:25 I love to run.

Jay Shetty 1:43:26 Yeah. I, I have to... I don't know if you've been, I, I recently invested, uh, in Angel City FC, and so I would love to take you to a game.

Alex Cooper 1:43:34 Oh, my God.

Jay Shetty 1:43:34 It'd be so fun-

Alex Cooper 1:43:35 Totally

Jay Shetty 1:43:35 ... because I, I grew up obviously wanting to play soccer professionally, and I was never good enough.

Alex Cooper 1:43:40 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:43:40 Uh, but my, my sister loves soccer, too.

Alex Cooper 1:43:42 Love.

Jay Shetty 1:43:42 And she played, and I was just like, "If I ever have a daughter or," I was like, "I want her to have the opportunity." So that's why I invested.

Alex Cooper 1:43:49 It's such a good sport.

Jay Shetty 1:43:50 Yeah, yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:43:50 It's, oh my God.

Jay Shetty 1:43:50 And they're so good.

Alex Cooper 1:43:51 So-

Jay Shetty 1:43:51 They're, so they're fun to watch. So I'll-

Alex Cooper 1:43:53 So fun

Jay Shetty 1:43:53 ... anyway, we have to figure that out.

Alex Cooper 1:43:54 Thank you. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:43:54 All right. Uh, question number four, uh, how would you describe your current purpose?

Alex Cooper 1:43:59 My current purpose is to use my platform to hopefully empower and unite women, also underrepresented communities, and try to elicit change. There's a lot we gotta do right now, and specifically with women's rights, and so I would say my purpose is trying to use my platform to excite people for change, not scare them. This is an exciting time. It is a great time to have a vagina. We have to look at it that way, or we're only going to regress and keep getting pushed backwards by men. So it's like, let's use our vaginas. Let's vote with our vaginas this year, okay? I don't think anyone's probably said "vaginas" this many times on your podcast.

Jay Shetty 1:44:48 [laughs]

Alex Cooper 1:44:49 Um, and it-

Jay Shetty 1:44:49 Definitely not, yeah

Alex Cooper 1:44:50 ... it, it's to, it's to inspire and bring people with me on this journey of educating myself and taking my education public.

Jay Shetty 1:44:57 Love that, and I'm with you. Whatever, whatever help I can give. Uh, fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Alex Cooper 1:45:07 Abortions are legal. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:45:10 Well said.

Alex Cooper 1:45:11 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:45:11 That's a real law.

Alex Cooper 1:45:12 Thank you. That's a real law.

Jay Shetty 1:45:13 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:45:13 Now let's put it back where it was.

Jay Shetty 1:45:15 Yeah.

Alex Cooper 1:45:16 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:45:16 Amazing.

Alex Cooper 1:45:16 Thank you. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:45:17 I love it. Alex Cooper, everyone.

Alex Cooper 1:45:18 Thank you so much for having me.

Jay Shetty 1:45:19 Cool. Oh, no, thank you. That was, without a doubt, I think the most fun I've ever had. That was so much fun. That was un- unbelievable.

Alex Cooper 1:45:26 I am honored-

Jay Shetty 1:45:26 It was amazing

Alex Cooper 1:45:26 ... to have been here. Thank you for giving me the time and the space-

Jay Shetty 1:45:29 No

Alex Cooper 1:45:29 ... and your platform. This was amazing.

Jay Shetty 1:45:30 No, I am so grateful-

Alex Cooper 1:45:31 Thank you

Jay Shetty 1:45:31 ... honestly.

Alex Cooper 1:45:31 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:45:31 That was smart, funny, intellectual, thoughtful, deep. I mean, it was-

Alex Cooper 1:45:36 A lot

Jay Shetty 1:45:36 ... it was every emotion I want to feel on any given day.

Alex Cooper 1:45:39 Yes, yes.

Jay Shetty 1:45:40 And you are just an absolute, I don't know what the right word is, like you're a maverick. Like, you know, it's just, it's, it's amazing also to, I love witnessing high-performing people in this way, and, like, watching you, I'm like, "This person's such a pro." Like, just unbelievable. Like, just phenomenal.

Alex Cooper 1:45:56 Thank you. So are you.

Jay Shetty 1:45:57 It's so beautiful to watch.

Alex Cooper 1:45:57 So are you. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:45:58 Yeah, it's amazing. So thank you. If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make sure you order today.