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Jay Shetty Podcast

Jada Pinkett Smith OPENS UP On Her Marriage & Struggling With Dark Thoughts

Today, we sit down with second-time guest Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada is a talented actor, producer, musician, host, author, and advocate whose career has spanned over 30 years.

Jada Pinkett SmithguestJay Shettyhost

Oct 16, 20232h 30mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

How Jay's Persistence Led to Writing the Book
Jada tells the story of how Jay pushed her to write a book and how a moment with Radhanath Swami and a meditation led to the idea of her journey from unlovable to lovable. She and Jay talk about the healing power of telling your own story.
- •Jay kept urging Jada to write a book despite her resistance
- •A meditation led her to see "my journey from unlovable to lovable" as a story worth telling
- •Writing the book has been a deep healing process
- •Jay says reading people's own words, like autobiographies, shaped his life
- •Jada says anyone can benefit from writing even one thread of their life
Growing Up With a Teenage Mother and Feeling Unlovable
Jay asks what it was like growing up with a teenage mom who struggled with addiction. Jada describes the pros and cons of raising herself, and how her father telling her at seven "I can't be your father" led her to internalize that she wasn't lovable enough to be a priority.
- •Growing up with her young mother felt like having a big sister
- •Raising herself made her fearless enough to move to LA at 18
- •Her father's words at seven led her to ask what was wrong with her
- •Jay points out the belief was that she herself wasn't lovable, not that her parents didn't love her
- •Without a father's model of love, her early intimate relationships were unhealthy
Her Grandmother's Legacy of Love
Jada credits her grandmother Marian with planting seeds of love and curiosity that outweighed the rest. She recounts her grandmother's remarkable life and says she believes her grandmother would be proud of her.
- •Her grandmother taught her the world is full of treasures to find
- •As first grandchild she was made to believe she could be and do anything
- •Her mother has been one of her biggest cheerleaders
- •Her grandmother became pregnant at 13, worked as a maid, went to Howard University and later India as an ambassador
Suicidal Thoughts, Plant Medicine, and the Way Out
Jada speaks about planning to take her life around her 40th birthday, how the plan itself kept her going, and the self-hatred she faced in a plant medicine ceremony that ended her suicidal thoughts. She urges anyone struggling to keep going.
- •She was planning her death in 2011 so it would look like an accident
- •Having a plan gave her energy to keep going and she didn't want to burden anyone
- •Plant medicine was her last resort and, after the ceremony, she never thought about suicide again
- •Her advice to anyone struggling is to keep trying, keep walking, and trust
- •Jay thanks her for her vulnerability and gives her a hug
Shame, and How to Support Someone Who Is Struggling
Jada describes the shame of being unhappy despite having a seemingly perfect life. She and Jay discuss how not to respond to someone who is struggling and how to meet people where they are.
- •People questioned why she was unhappy, which deepened her shame and withdrawal
- •Jada says not to tell someone who is struggling that they have so much
- •Meeting people where they are is a skill
- •Jay says real compassion helps someone take their next step, not yours
- •Jada advises getting professional help together while recognizing that the person must want help
Moving to Hollywood and the Existential Disappointment of Success
Jay asks what made her believe she could break the mold and move to LA. Jada credits mentors, Tupac's encouragement, and her own perseverance, then describes the letdown of realizing fame and money didn't solve her problems and that her inner world was neglected.
- •A mentor at Baltimore School for the Arts pushed her to audition and get out of Baltimore
- •Her mother told her they were going to LA
- •She believed success would solve everyone's problems
- •Tupac shared the same existential disappointment
- •She had a breakdown and looked to Will as a fix, and says that did not work either
Friendship With Tupac Without Romance
Jay asks how she built a deep friendship with Tupac without it becoming romantic. Jada describes their kinship, loyalty and honesty, how they both felt "ew" when she dared him to kiss her, and her lingering pain over his death.
- •There was no physical chemistry between them, only deep understanding
- •Both had mothers who were addicts and compensated for each other without being sentimental
- •Some of her deepest connections with men have not included sex
- •Their blowups never worried her because he would come back
- •She believes Tupac knew she adored him and still feels helpless over his death
Fairy-Tale Illusions and the Stages of Her Marriage to Will
Jay talks about projecting dreams onto couples and asks about the stages of her relationship with Will. Jada describes the challenges from the start, the need for transparency, the breakups that the public didn't know about, and the entanglement narrative.
- •Jay describes "Disney Princess Syndrome" and projection onto public couples
- •Jada says she and Will never had an ideal honeymoon stage
- •She says they did not have an open marriage but asked for transparency
- •They separated around her 40th birthday, reconciled, and then broke up in 2016 without telling the world
- •She took on the adulteress narrative at the Red Table as a step toward her own freedom
The Red Table Talk, Ego Death, and Grace for Others
Jay highlights that the Red Table conversation was about healing, not saving face. Jada explains her motives, her own codependent martyr pattern, and the self-worth she gained. Jay shares his own experience of leaving monk life and urges grace toward others.
- •Jada says the Red Table was her choice; Will came to support her and then wasn't ready
- •She saw her codependent martyr pattern, which she links to her mother's addiction
- •Jay compares it to telling his community he could no longer be a monk
- •Jay urges grace toward people going through divorce or misunderstanding
- •Jada says ego deaths are needed to reach self-worth and self-love
The Little Gurus: Trey, Willow and Jaden
Jada describes what each of her children has taught her: Trey to see people's spirits, Willow how to hold tears and be held, and Jaden unconditional love. She talks about apologizing to her kids, and Jay reads a note from Willow.
- •Trey sees the best in people and walks a parallel spiritual path with her
- •Willow taught her to join people and to cry, which Jada calls "the thawing"
- •Jaden has a capacity to love everything and told her not to apologize
- •Jada believes it is important for parents to apologize
- •Willow's note praises Jada's inner excavation and openness
Showing Humanness to Children and a Family Devoted to Healing
Jada says she keeps no secrets from her kids and lets them see her flaws. Jay reflects on meeting her and her family and how devoted they are to healing and the divine.
- •She lets her children see her deepest flaws while being careful with it
- •She values having seen her own mother as a human being
- •Jay recalls telling her he learned to love God as a monk
- •He says he has not met a family where healing is a higher priority
Oscars Night: The Holy Slap and Compassion for Chris
Jay asks what Jada was actually feeling at the 2022 Oscars. She explains her reaction was about the stigma of hair loss and the private state of her marriage, and describes Chris's sincere words to her. She hopes for healing between Will and Chris.
- •She says her look was directed at Will, anticipating Chris's joke, and she wasn't upset for herself
- •She and Will hadn't lived as husband and wife since 2016
- •She accepts responsibility for the narratives that led people to blame her
- •Chris told her, "Jada, I meant no harm"
- •She hopes the two men will heal, and says conflict has amplified love in her heart
Unlovable to Lovable and Being Okay With It All
Jay reflects that everyone fills the gap between unlovable and lovable with different things. Jada says healing must come from within, with a power higher than yourself, and that you can be okay with both victories and challenges, peanuts and all.
- •Jay says the memoir shows every version she tried to fit into that gap
- •Their friendship is built only on healing, growth and the divine
- •The book isn't meant to clear up what happened
- •Self-worth can't be built on external approval
- •"You're worthy. You're lovable, peanuts and all"
Where Jada and Will Stand Now and Why They Haven't Divorced
Jada describes their relationship as a deep friendship and life partnership, with marriage as the cornerstone of family. She explains why divorce feels like quitting and how they are each other's mirror, and how marrying young created patterns they are dismantling.
- •They are defining marriage in their own way and doing deep healing together
- •Will is her greatest mirror and an easier partner wouldn't get her to who she wants to be
- •She says marriage is not for the faint of heart
- •They married young, and their romantic ideas have been blown up in a freeing way
- •Jay says purification, not pleasure, is the deeper gift of relationships
Romantic Love, Friendship, and Non-Traditional Marriage
Jada says romantic love is an aspect of a higher form of love and that couples need to make room for growth. She explains how she and Will keep the friendship, and both she and Jay argue that each couple should define their own agreement.
- •Jada believes romantic love is an aspect of a higher form, not the highest
- •Shared connection to a source greater than yourselves is the foundation she values
- •She and Will refuse to give up on having each other in their lives
- •They differ in how they process: she needs time, he's ready to talk
- •Jay shares that he and Radhi live apart for long stretches by agreement
An Unbreakable Bond and Walking Each Other Home
Jada says she will always be by Will's side and sees the bond as a God-given gift that forces her to grow. She recounts Swami's advice on vows and his remark that people end up as friends walking each other home.
- •She and Will have tried to break their bond and don't want to live without each other
- •She treats the relationship as a surrender and lesson in love, patience and forgiveness
- •She asked Swami if she should get divorced and he spoke about staying committed to vows
- •She feels they are walking each other home as life partners
A Letter From Will and Embracing Our Humanness
Jay reads a letter from Will praising the book. Jada reflects on how they married young with different visions of family, on avoiding romanticized regret, and on Ruby Dee's advice to laugh more. She closes by calling for acceptance of our humanness and worthiness.
- •Will's letter says he would have hugged her more if he'd read the book 30 years ago
- •Jada explains they had different ideas of how to build a family
- •She says every step between them was perfect and she avoids romanticized regret
- •Ruby Dee's biggest regret was not laughing more with her husband
- •She says cancel culture rejects our humanness and that we are all worthy

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