Jada Pinkett Smith OPENS UP On Her Marriage & Struggling With Dark Thoughts

Jada Pinkett Smith 0:00 That was a really, really... [sniffs] It was a really painful time. I'm sorry.

Jay Shetty 0:08 Please welcome Jada Pinkett Smith.

Jada Pinkett Smith 0:10 You want out of the pain. Only way out is death. Chris comes to the end of the stage, and he looks at me deeply, sincerely, and he says-

Jay Shetty 0:24 I also have a letter from Will. Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

0:57 The bestselling author and host.

Jada Pinkett Smith 0:58 The number one health and wellness podcast. [laughs] On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:04 Now, Jay, before we start-

Jay Shetty 1:05 Go on

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:06 ... can I tell a story?

Jay Shetty 1:07 You can.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07 Okay. I gotta, I have to let your audience know how this book even began, okay?

Jay Shetty 1:15 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:15 They have to know, Jay.

Jay Shetty 1:17 Okay.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17 All right. So I visit you. I'm here visiting because Swami's here. Radhanath Swami's here. And you had often said, "Jada, you should write a book." I'm like, "Jay, I don't want to." So this day, once again, you're like, "Jada, you should write a book." And I'm like, "Jay, I don't wanna write a book." You're like, "Well, you should write a book." "Jay, I don't wanna write a book." We're going back and forth like siblings. Radhanath comes into the kitchen, 'cause Radhi's making a beautiful lunch for us to eat. He comes, he sits down, he goes, "Jay, if Jada doesn't wanna write a book, she doesn't have to write a book." And you go, "Well, I think she should write a book."

Jay Shetty 1:53 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54 And I was like, "Oh, did he just talk back to Swami?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:58 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59 But I'm gonna tell you something. That was a really, a moment for me, right? Because I said, I, 'cause I'd been pushing back for a long time and you talking to me about it, and that moment, I was like, "Okay, I need you to take that home, and I need you to think about it because Jay's your brother. There's something here y- that you might not be seeing." And it was really that moment that put me on pause. And a couple of days later, I was in meditation, and it came to me, and I said, "Oh my goodness. My journey from unlovable to lovable is a worthy story to tell." And I called you, and I said, "Jay, I got it. Thank you." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:44 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:45 But you were so persistent about it, right? And I just wanna thank you because honestly, and I'm not, you know, if it hadn't been for that moment, that book wouldn't be here right now, right? And you really were on my neck about it for a long time. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:04 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 3:05 So I just wanna say thank you because you also made it clear, you were like, you'll g- you made it clear to me I would get a lot out of it, and I have. So I just wanna say thank you. It's been such a deep healing process for me in ways that I could have never imagined.

Jay Shetty 3:23 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 3:23 You know? And what you said before, you know, we even started in the introduction, you know, just that hope of, it's so hard to find authentic happiness in this world. Even through my journey, my 52 years, and just trying to figure out how to be authentically happy-

Jay Shetty 3:43 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 3:44 ... has been such an excruciating process. And one of the purposes of this book is, like, if I can help in any small amount of way, [laughs] you know, in any way possible, to help somebody have an easier, or just leave, like, little breadcrumbs, kind of like, not a blueprint, 'cause everybody's process is different, but just little breadcrumbs of how to find that for yourself.

Jay Shetty 4:14 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 4:15 Because it has been really difficult for me. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 4:20 Well, thank you for sharing that with me, and I think I blocked that memory out because I don't, [laughs] I don't think I've ever tried to stand up against Radhanath Swami, my-

Jada Pinkett Smith 4:30 [laughs] I mean

Jay Shetty 4:30 ... a tea- you know, my teacher before. I think that would, uh... So I've, I've pretended that it didn't happen.

Jada Pinkett Smith 4:35 Yeah, like, that didn't...

Jay Shetty 4:37 For me, growing up reading autobiographies is what changed my life, and I think one of the things that I feel we struggle with today is that people's narratives are being told from so many different angles apart from their own.

Jada Pinkett Smith 4:53 Right.

Jay Shetty 4:54 And when I grew up and I was reading the words of Martin Luther King or I was reading Malcolm X-

Jada Pinkett Smith 5:00 Right

Jay Shetty 5:00 ... I found there to be so much power in reading the words directly from an individual. And so even if that wasn't their autobiography, if it was their work, their words, you felt so intimately connected with that person.

Jada Pinkett Smith 5:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 5:17 And I feel that when people move on and we don't have them on the planet anymore, it's almost like you lose this treasure house of experience and memories. And I also think that if someone's listening or watching right now, and you're thinking, "Well, Jay, I would never write a book. I'm not a public figure. I'm not a celebrity. I'm not a musician or an actor. I don't have a career path that means I should be an author," I still think that telling your story-

Jada Pinkett Smith 5:48 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 5:48 ... whether it's to your family-

Jada Pinkett Smith 5:49 Yes

Jay Shetty 5:50 ... your kids, your-

Jada Pinkett Smith 5:51 Yes

Jay Shetty 5:51 ... is so important.

Jada Pinkett Smith 5:53 I could not agree with you more. I think it's actually imperative [laughs] that looking at your life on the page, like, you forget- ... experiences. You know, you forget, like, "Oh my goodness, I did that? Oh, I went through that? Oh my God, really? I came through that?"

Jay Shetty 6:11 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 6:12 It's like, it's almost like an homage to yourself, honestly-

Jay Shetty 6:15 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 6:16 ... to really be able to look at your life and go, "Wow, what a life."

Jay Shetty 6:22 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 6:22 I think everybody should take some time, even if it's just one... Like, 'cause even with Worthy, I took one line, which was unlovable to lovable. So anything in regards to my life that was on that arc-

Jay Shetty 6:37 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 6:38 ... I talked about. But there's so much more, uh, so many other parts of my life, right? So even if somebody says, "You know what? I just wanna, you know, write down, um, the happiest moments of my childhood."

Jay Shetty 6:50 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 6:50 "And I wanna just look at that on paper," right? But whatever journey somebody decides to pick from, from their life, um, and, and to examine thoroughly on the page, I would definitely suggest that-

Jay Shetty 7:04 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 7:04 ... because it is really powerful, and it's so healing, and it will teach you so much about yourself. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 7:12 Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Let's, let's dive in.

Jada Pinkett Smith 7:16 Okay.

Jay Shetty 7:16 Because that journey of being unlovable to lovable as you're tracing there, I think is a journey that we all have to walk in our own ways. And I think when, you know, I, I met you, I think, five years ago now. We've just spent a lot of time together in the last five years. Hence, we have a deep connection. But when I first met you, I was looking at you from the outside. And over the last five years, I've got to know you through an inner journey and, and, you know, through family as well, and through spending time with your family. And what I found was that we often lose context when you view someone's life from the outside. And when you get closer, the greatest thing you get is context. And so I wanted to start off, and this book does

Jay Shetty 8:04 that so well, but I wanna start off of, what does it feel like growing up with a teenage mom-

Jada Pinkett Smith 8:09 Hmm

Jay Shetty 8:10 ... who has an addiction? Like, I think that that is so formative in so many ways, and it's so easy to forget that that's where you started because of your career.

Jada Pinkett Smith 8:20 Growing up with my mother, a teenage mother, it's like we grew up together. It's almost like having a big sister. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 8:26 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 8:27 I mean, even to this day, you know, it's like, it's like I, I get to have two roles in my mom. Like, sometimes she's still my big sister, and then sometimes she really comes in, like, as your, as my mother. [laughs] You know what I mean? As you saw in the book, it's like, I had all this freedom, running crazy in the streets and what have you, but there was such pivotal moments where Adrienne came to the rescue as my mother, right? And she still does that to this day. But it was, you know, I did a lot of having to raise myself, and there are parts of that, there's pros and cons to that. There's a lot of pros. It's like, that is the part that made it possible for me to come to LA at the age of 18 on my own and figure this Hollywood game out.

Jay Shetty 9:12 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 9:12 Right? Just with no fear, completely fearless. But then also kind of growing up with certain ideas of what I thought, um, love was or certain survival mechanisms that, you know, as I got older, didn't quite serve me. But I think that we all have that no matter what-

Jay Shetty 9:34 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 9:34 ... our family background is. You know what I'm saying? We all kind of pick up things that, along the way that, um, don't serve us for the entirety of our journey. I tell you, I, I learned a lot having a young mom. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:49 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 9:49 At, at, at a early age. I really do think that even with our trials and our challenges, that the great Supreme gave me the mom I was supposed to have, and the most perfect mother, and the journey that I was supposed to have to prepare me for other parts of my journey.

Jay Shetty 10:05 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:05 But, you know, it was challenging and beautiful at the same time.

Jay Shetty 10:08 Yeah. And I love Gammy, so I just wanna put that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:10 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 10:11 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:11 We all love Gammy.

Jay Shetty 10:12 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:12 We all love Gammy.

Jay Shetty 10:13 Yeah. And, and, and, but it's really interesting. There was one line in your book that really kinda cemented that feeling of unlovable to me from that time. And you said y- there was a time when you felt like you were not being a priority to the two people who gave you life.

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:29 Like, that line-

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:29 That was hard, yeah

Jay Shetty 10:30 ... that really hit me because I was like...

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:32 Yeah. That was probably really difficult. And, like, you had two parents who drugs were their focus and the lifestyle that came with it. You know, I also talk about in the book when my father told me at seven years old, "I can't be your father." And it's just like, wow, okay, what do I do with this?

Jay Shetty 10:53 What does a seven-year-old do with that?

Jada Pinkett Smith 10:55 You, you just kinda internalize it. And you kinda go, okay, um, what's wrong with me? What is it about me that I'm not enough for these two people to look at me as a priority? 'Cause I see everybody else's parents, and it looks like their kids are their priority, so what's wrong with me? So you kinda, I internalized this idea of not being enough, not being lovable. And it, it's, it's strange 'cause it's not that, that I didn't feel like my mother didn't love me. It's just that am I lovable enough to be the priority? Am I lovable enough to, for you to show up for me as the mom that I see other moms be, you know?

Jay Shetty 11:48 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 11:49 So I definitely internalized that. And I think that I took that into the world of like, I'm just gonna prove, constantly having to prove myself. And I, I'm lovable. I'm lovable enough. I'm lovable enough. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 12:01 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 12:02 And I think that was some of the messaging that I took- From my childhood into, into my adulthood

Jay Shetty 12:09 And I appreciate you going back to that seven-year-old self because in hindsight, and now looking back, you can make sense of it-

Jada Pinkett Smith 12:17 Yes

Jay Shetty 12:17 ... and you can connect the dots, but it's like, when you're actually in that position, it's very natural, as you said, to just internalize it. And I think that what's really interesting with your journey is we all have to develop the emotional skills our parents didn't have.

Jada Pinkett Smith 12:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:33 And the earlier we do that, the easier and simpler life becomes. But often most of our energy goes in thinking, "Well, I wish they had them," or, "They should have had them." And when I'm listening to you, what I'm hearing is that

Jay Shetty 12:47 it's not even the belief that they don't love me or love me enough, it's the belief that somewhere inside, I am not lovable.

Jada Pinkett Smith 12:55 Yes. Yes.

Jay Shetty 12:56 Right? It's, it's, it's so-

Jada Pinkett Smith 12:58 In-

Jay Shetty 12:58 ... inside you. It's not even about them.

Jada Pinkett Smith 13:00 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 13:01 Yeah. It's like, I'm not valuable. I'm not-

Jada Pinkett Smith 13:04 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:05 ... loved.

Jada Pinkett Smith 13:05 It's because that's your mirror at first, right? But it, it, and it's so complicated and nuanced. Do I believe my father loved me? Of course, in the way that he could.

Jay Shetty 13:16 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 13:17 I think that he felt the most loving thing he could do was tell me, "I can't be your father." And I respected that, even at seven, because I was like, "At least somebody's telling me the truth." I've always respected hardcore truths. That is one thing about me. I respect hardcore truths. Doesn't mean I always like them, but I freaking respect them.

Jay Shetty 13:41 At seven.

Jada Pinkett Smith 13:42 At seven.

Jay Shetty 13:42 Like, that lesson started young.

Jada Pinkett Smith 13:44 That's a gangster hardcore truth to tell a child. But then at the same time, that seed within me that is like, "Well, are all men like that?" Like, if my dad doesn't love me, how is any man gonna love me? I didn't realize that at seven.

Jay Shetty 14:02 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:03 That's when I started getting into, like, 16, 17, when I start, you know, having those kind of intimate relationships with men and realizing, "Oh, wow, the, I'm real... This area is n- this area is quite unhealthy." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:19 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:19 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 14:20 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:20 Of just, like, how I viewed myself. I was either giving too much or not enough. I'm either hot or super cold. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:30 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:30 You know, emotionally.

Jay Shetty 14:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:32 And so trying to regulate and understand because, you know, my understanding is that a, a young girl's first relationship and understanding of love is with her father.

Jay Shetty 14:45 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:45 I didn't have that-

Jay Shetty 14:46 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:46 ... at all.

Jay Shetty 14:47 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:48 So I'm still learning. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Jada Pinkett Smith 14:52 I'm still really immature in that area of just emotional development around intimacy-

Jay Shetty 15:01 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 15:02 ... with masculinity. I know that now, whereas before I didn't know that. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 15:06 Yeah, you're not aware. Yeah. How do you know?

Jada Pinkett Smith 15:07 I'm not aware. Like, this is just what it is. And then growing up in an environment with so much violence and so much aggression and... Oh, man, it was like, what do you do with all that?

Jay Shetty 15:17 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 15:18 And trying to just, like, unpack all of it to just figure out, like, oh, life is about love. It's not about power and ego and winning and losing. I mean, it's taken me fif- I'm 52, just now understanding that. It's been a wild ride, but you know what? Every day I thank the great Supreme for, for the journey, and just for giving me the awakenings, the little awakenings that I get about love, and just my willingness to have it.

Jay Shetty 15:51 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 15:51 You know, really wanting to understand what love is all about. But I do have to give my grandmother a lot of credit.

Jay Shetty 15:57 Yeah, I was gonna talk about her.

Jada Pinkett Smith 15:58 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:59 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 15:59 Marian really... I had all these different seeds that were planted in me, and Marian's seed, that, that goes to show you how the legacy of love will overpower everything. It is her... It is the legacy of love that my grandmother instilled in me and also the desire to search. She always had me understand that the world is full of treasures. Get out there-

Jay Shetty 16:27 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 16:27 ... and find them.

Jay Shetty 16:28 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 16:29 She instilled that in me at a very young age, and she also instilled in me that I was special, but I was her first grandchild.

Jay Shetty 16:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 16:39 [laughs] You know, I was her first grandchild.

Jay Shetty 16:41 There you go making excuses again.

Jada Pinkett Smith 16:43 Right? Well, I'm just saying.

Jay Shetty 16:44 You're not... Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 16:44 You know, I was her first grandchild, and so she, she really made me think that I could be and do anything.

Jay Shetty 16:52 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 16:53 Being the child of two addicts on one side, and then my grandmother instilling in me like, "No, I'm telling you, you got something, kid." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 17:04 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 17:04 You know what I mean? And so just being able to hold on to those seeds that she put within me. And then of course my mother encouraging me along the way too. My mother saw some really beautiful stuff in me as well, and she's been a, o- one of my biggest cheerleaders and champions throughout my life.

Jay Shetty 17:23 Absolutely. If your, if your grandmother saw you today-

Jada Pinkett Smith 17:26 Oh

Jay Shetty 17:27 ... what would she say?

Jada Pinkett Smith 17:28 Oh, my goodness, my grandmother would be so proud of me, through it all. Like, with the good and the challenges. She had a very challenging life.

Jay Shetty 17:39 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 17:40 Extremely. And what she was able to make out of her life as a immigrant, you know, a child of two immigrants from Jamaica. Um, she became pregnant at 13. To this day, we don't know how that happened. We do believe that it was a mistake, and it wasn't that she was raped or molested or ta- you know, I never got that from her. I always got that it was her lack of knowledge-

Jay Shetty 18:10 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 18:11 ... about sex that ... created that circumstance, and, um, she had that baby on her own, and she was pretty much abandoned, and she was taken in by a family through a foster, a white family who she worked for as a maid, and, um, got herself to Howard University.

Jay Shetty 18:29 Wow.

Jada Pinkett Smith 18:30 And was able to go to India-

Jay Shetty 18:31 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 18:32 ... as an ambassador.

Jay Shetty 18:33 Wow.

Jada Pinkett Smith 18:33 Yeah, she went to India, and came back, and my grandfather, who was studying to be a doctor, asked her to get married. So I think she would be, and is, very proud of me with it all.

Jay Shetty 18:47 I love that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 18:48 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:48 That's, that's special to feel that, that at some-

Jada Pinkett Smith 18:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 18:51 ... times to look back. So Jada, at the start of this book, you talk

Jay Shetty 18:56 about how you were... And this broke my heart. You were talking about how you were planning taking your life, but then how it could look like an accident.

Jada Pinkett Smith 19:06 Yeah. That was 2011. That was my 40th birthday. My 40th year, actually.

Jay Shetty 19:13 When I was reading that, I was just thinking to myself, I was like, "What were you hoping that would achieve?" Like, what, what were you hoping that would solve? Talk us through that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 19:22 Yeah. It's funny because when you're in those states, you're not clear. It's not like it's gonna make rational sense, right? You want out of the pain, and you cannot imagine your only way out is death. You think in your mind you've tried everything, and you're like, "So like, God, I can't do this. I can't keep doing this," and so that's your only solution. And I tell people all the time, you know, we've had a lot of, um, different spotlighted people who've taken their life. People call, "I cannot believe it," and I'm like, "You just never know what somebody's going through." And there are certain people that have a high tolerance for being able to put on a good face in order to not burden people.

Jay Shetty 20:17 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 20:18 But what is really interesting is that when you have a plan, sometimes that gives you enough energy to just keep going, 'cause you're like, "Okay, I got a good plan."

Jay Shetty 20:31 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 20:32 "So if this gets really bad, I know where to go."

Jay Shetty 20:35 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 20:36 And you're like, "Okay, I'm just gonna keep trying to figure this out. I'm gonna keep trying to figure this out, but I got this plan." And it's really tough because you don't wanna... For personalities like myself, you don't wanna burden anybody, and you're like, "Look, if I can't figure out how to get out of this, nobody else is gonna be able to figure this out either."

Jay Shetty 20:54 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 20:55 That was a really, really [crying] painful... It was a really painful time. I'm sorry.

Jay Shetty 21:09 No, don't be sorry, Jada.

Jada Pinkett Smith 21:10 I'm really grateful that I, uh, found a way out, but I think about people who don't find it, and I wish, I wish there was like one thing I could say, one piece of advice, one... You know, you like, what would you tell somebody in a situation like that? And all I can ever say is, "Please, just keep going."

Jay Shetty 21:41 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 21:42 Keep trying. Keep walking. Trust. Because if you trust, and I know how difficult it is, you know? For people who are in it, like, that's easy for you to say, but if you keep trusting, the universe will open a door. And I know how hard it is to just wake up and keep it going. 'Cause for me, it was hard just waking up in the morning. If I could get to 4:00, I was like, "Okay, you made it another day."

Jay Shetty 22:17 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 22:18 Being able to have enough strength to just get up, get out of bed, put clothes on, get through your day, and let no one know that you're struggling, it is so hard. I feel really blessed. You know, when plant medicine came my way, it saved my life, and I know that there's still a lot of whatever around plant medicine, but I'm gonna tell you like this, and I'm not saying that that's for everybody, because my way out was a rugged four nights. And it was just my thoughts.

Jay Shetty 23:04 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 23:04 Thoughts about myself. It was just my self-hatred.

Jay Shetty 23:08 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 23:09 The level of self-hatred you have, that I have had, to want to take my own life, and I had to walk four nights to clear up, look at, be with that level of self-hatred. And I was like, you wanna talk about walking through the valley of the shadow of death. But I'm really grateful for that experience because after that one night, I never thought about suicide again.

Jay Shetty 23:38 Mm. Yeah, after the ceremony.

Jada Pinkett Smith 23:40 After the ceremony.

Jay Shetty 23:41 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 23:41 And it was really my last resort.

Jay Shetty 23:45 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 23:45 I was like, "Okay, this has been brought my way. I'm gonna try this," and it worked. Praise God. Thank you. That's a really painful place for me still, and just thinking about how many people are sitting in that place, it really breaks my heart. Trusting God, that's those moments where I just have to just be like, "God, these are your children. You will take care." And I pray that... God, you will provide the door you have provided for me

Jay Shetty 24:21 Thank you for being so vulnerable with us. I wanna give you a big hug. Can I come out and give you a big hug?

Jada Pinkett Smith 24:25 You can give me a hug, Jay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 24:27 [laughs] I come give you a hug. Aw.

Jada Pinkett Smith 24:29 Oh, I love you.

Jay Shetty 24:30 I love you too.

Jada Pinkett Smith 24:31 Thank you. You've been such a wonderful friend. You really have. You've been by my side through some really tough stuff.

Jay Shetty 24:41 Um, I-

Jada Pinkett Smith 24:41 Only for more ti- [laughs]

Jay Shetty 24:44 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 24:45 Only for more challenges to come along the way, but-

Jay Shetty 24:47 I'm, I'm so glad I've never, you know, I wouldn't have had the fortune of getting to meet you, and I'm really glad that you, you know, were so vulnerable with us just now because I, I really feel like there's more people than we think that have those thoughts.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:01 Trust and believe it.

Jay Shetty 25:02 That, that ... Yeah. There's this-

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:03 Trust and believe it. There's people, there's people that you see every day that you would never believe.

Jay Shetty 25:13 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:14 It's so funny to, to have that level of strength-

Jay Shetty 25:17 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:17 ... and that level of vulnerability and just, you know, despair and at the same time, that level of, like, helplessness-

Jay Shetty 25:26 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:27 ... that could drive you to do something like that. But a lot of times we just don't know how to communicate it.

Jay Shetty 25:34 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:34 I didn't know how.

Jay Shetty 25:36 And no one knew, like the Will, the kids-

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:38 Will, oh, no

Jay Shetty 25:38 ... like, 'cause this is already, you know, your mom.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:40 They knew-

Jay Shetty 25:41 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:41 ... I was very unhappy.

Jay Shetty 25:44 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:44 That wasn't a secret, and people didn't understand why either.

Jay Shetty 25:48 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:48 So let's talk about that for a minute.

Jay Shetty 25:50 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:50 The shame that comes with those feelings.

Jay Shetty 25:55 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 25:56 And specifically, like, everybody feels that level of shame. I don't care what station of life you're existing in. And I would say I'm unhappy, and people would look at me like I'm crazy. What are you unhappy about? And so then I just went in even more.

Jay Shetty 26:11 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:12 'Cause I was like, "They're right. Look what you accomplished. You've got this great family. You've got a great life."

Jay Shetty 26:19 Yeah, you got the house

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:19 You got the house-

Jay Shetty 26:20 ... and all of them

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:20 ... the car-

Jay Shetty 26:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:21 ... the da, the this and the that. What's your problem? So then that's a hot cup of shame. So then you just, I just shut down.

Jay Shetty 26:30 That's such a great note to put out there because I think so many times we, we think like that about maybe our friends-

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:36 Yes

Jay Shetty 26:36 ... our family member.

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:37 Just like you have so much-

Jay Shetty 26:38 Someone that we know

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:38 And they have so much.

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:39 You have so much.

Jay Shetty 26:40 What the hell is wrong with this person?

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:41 And it's like that language can be so-

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:43 Yeah, and I would suggest to anybody, don't say that.

Jay Shetty 26:47 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 26:48 Don't say that to somebody who's saying, "I'm having a tough time. I'm struggling." You have this, you have that. No, what's going on? Tell me. Help me understand.

Jay Shetty 26:59 Yeah, as r- as ridiculous as it may sound to you-

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:02 Right

Jay Shetty 27:03 ... to that person, that thought has been repeated so many times-

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:06 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 27:07 ... that it's become their reality-

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:08 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 27:09 ... even if it seems ridiculous to you, like.

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:11 Yeah, it can be so foreign. I get it.

Jay Shetty 27:13 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:14 But that is somebody trying to step out and talk. So we have to have, we have to be receptive it is, and not to look at it. You know, it, and that is like, that's tricky too, because really being able to meet somebody where they are-

Jay Shetty 27:39 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:39 ... versus trying to meet somebody where you're at, and that in itself is a skill set.

Jay Shetty 27:45 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:45 Just being able to go, "Okay, hold it. What am I missing here?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 27:49 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:49 Let me just take a minute. Let me blend with you. Let me join you.

Jay Shetty 27:53 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 27:54 I didn't have that, and it's nobody's fault.

Jay Shetty 27:56 You know, I'm hoping that anyone who thinks anyone in their life is struggling will share what you just shared with us with them to start a conversation, to open up that dialogue. Because I think you just said it now, and it brought a thought to my mind that real love or real compassion is when you help someone get to the next step in their journey-

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:19 Yeah

Jay Shetty 28:19 ... not in your journey.

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:20 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 28:21 And that means being able to be present with them wherever they are-

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:27 Yeah

Jay Shetty 28:27 ... even if it seems like a foreign alien land to you. I really feel like if anyone has anyone in their life who's struggling, please send that to them. Please share that with them because that, they need to hear it from someone else who's been there sometimes also, because if you've not been there, you don't, you may not know how to say... And, and I think that's the other thing, right? The other side is, one side is we say, "Oh, you should be happy. You're fine." The other side is we try and fix it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 28:56 You can't, right?

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 28:57 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:57 You can't, and that's-

Jay Shetty 28:58 You can't solve it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:59 You can't s-

Jay Shetty 28:59 There is no perfect thing

Jada Pinkett Smith 28:59 ... There is no, right. You can't solve it. The best that we can do is, like, you can try to meet them where they are, and let's get help. We can do it together and hold hands and, and get them to someone professional.

Jay Shetty 29:14 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:15 I will say it's really healing when someone can join you.

Jay Shetty 29:21 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:22 It's also having that boundary of understanding too that you can only do but so much as well.

Jay Shetty 29:29 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:29 A person has to really want help.

Jay Shetty 29:33 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:34 And that's why I would tell the person that might be struggling to just k- stay open to try everything. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 29:41 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:41 You know me, like I tried everything [laughs] until I found the thing.

Jay Shetty 29:48 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:49 And just keep walking until you find the thing.

Jay Shetty 29:51 That obviously happens a lot later on-

Jada Pinkett Smith 29:53 Yeah

Jay Shetty 29:53 ... even though you start the book with that, but there was a time when you believed that Hollywood-

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:00 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 30:01 ... and having it all-

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:02 Would do it

Jay Shetty 30:02 ... would do it-

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:03 Yes

Jay Shetty 30:04 ... even before you get to this point. And so, and also what I find fascinating is you grew up where, like, drug dealing was normal.

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:11 Yep.

Jay Shetty 30:12 You were in that scene. You were meeting people. Everyone around you was in that scene. You weren't, as from what I gathered from the book and the time we've spent together, there weren't a lot of people who were breaking that mold.

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:22 Yeah, no.

Jay Shetty 30:23 What was it that made you, A, believe that- You

Jay Shetty 30:27 could move to LA when you were 18 and break that mold and that you didn't have to fall into the pattern of everyone around you. And at the same time, secondly, what was it that made you believe that that would solve it, that that was what was missing?

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:41 Thank goodness along the way I had great mentors like Donald Hicken-

Jay Shetty 30:46 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:46 ... you know, at Baltimore School for the Arts that was like, "Jada, you've got more talent in the pinky of your- [laughs]

Jay Shetty 30:52 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 30:52 ... your little pinky than most people have in their whole bodies, you know? That he forced me to go, you know, into that audition for North Carolina School for the Arts, and that's what got me out of Baltimore, so that I could just get away from that lifestyle and break that mentality, right? Um, and then once I got immersed again into my art, I was like, "Wow, I really love this." And once I click into something, like, my mind goes, pew.

Jay Shetty 31:23 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 31:23 You know what I mean? And then Pac came to LA.

Jay Shetty 31:26 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 31:26 Well, he wasn't in LA, he was in northern California. And Pac kept saying, "You gotta get out here. It's poppin'." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 31:34 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 31:34 You know what I mean? And now he's like, "You gotta come out here and visit." And so I was like, "All right, I'm gonna get out there." Pac was another one, too, that was just like, "You got it, Jada. You got it." And I'm like, "All right. I'm coming." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 31:48 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 31:50 So I told my mom, I was like, "You got two choices," 'cause I still wasn't quite sure yet. You know, I was like, "I could go to LA and see if I can do this Hollywood thing, or I could become a lawyer-

Jay Shetty 32:05 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:05 ... and take all my dramatics to the court." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:08 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:08 Right? To the courthouse. And she said, "We're going to LA."

Jay Shetty 32:13 Wow.

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:13 Once I got to LA, I was like, "You're here."

Jay Shetty 32:16 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:17 "Make it happen."

Jay Shetty 32:18 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:19 And part of what made me think that I could do it wasn't just about talent, but was just my perseverance and just my go- I'm a pit bull when it comes to when I want something, you know, especially in my youth. I'm not so much a pit bull anymore. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:39 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:39 But in my youth, you know, once I put my mind to something, I was like, "Go get it." And I really felt like how everybody else feels, you know? Like, yo, once I make it, once I'm rich and famous-

Jay Shetty 32:53 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:53 ... all my problems are gonna be solved, you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 32:56 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 32:56 Um, my problems are gonna be solved, my mom's problems are gonna be solved, you know? Everybody's problems are gonna be solved. I got this, you know what I'm saying? [laughs] And so... And that was a trip because that wasn't the case.

Jay Shetty 33:08 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:08 And I think that that's still prevalent. People feel like once you get to a certain level of success, you are exempt from the human experience.

Jay Shetty 33:19 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:20 You are exempt from the human condition. And the truth is that is not the case.

Jay Shetty 33:29 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:29 And let me tell you, I had an existential drop-

Jay Shetty 33:33 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:34 ... in realizing, hold it, wait a minute. Hold it. Like, my career is poppin'.

Jay Shetty 33:42 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:43 I got money. I'm hot.

Jay Shetty 33:47 People are pursuing you.

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:48 I got every dude everywhere wanting it, you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 33:51 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 33:51 Like, I can have anybody I want. Why am I not happy? God, now, this wasn't, this wasn't the plan.

Jay Shetty 34:01 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:02 I couldn't believe it, 'cause that was the whole idea. You make it, you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, you make it, and life's great. And thank goodness at that particular point in time I had Pac-

Jay Shetty 34:16 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:17 ... that I could go, like, we could share that together because he was going through the same existential disappointment.

Jay Shetty 34:23 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:24 He thought the same thing.

Jay Shetty 34:25 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:26 That was, like, the beginning of just, like, wait a minute. Then if it's not this, then what is it?

Jay Shetty 34:31 It's incredible that you had a supportive friend in, in Tupac. You had this amazing friend who was saying, "You've got this. You're talented." And that can really help.

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:39 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 34:40 And at the same time, there's a whole nother inner journey-

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:42 Yes

Jay Shetty 34:43 ... that has to happen with it. So that was externally it was empowering, it was inspiring, it was great to have someone believe in you, and we all need that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:51 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 34:51 And at the same time, it was like this other reminder of-

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:54 The inner world was not together-

Jay Shetty 34:57 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 34:57 ... at all, and being completely ignored.

Jay Shetty 35:00 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 35:01 You know? And it would take me years to realize that, that, oh, no, it's not just about what's happening on the outside, Jada. But if your inner world is not your foundation, it's all sandcastles.

Jay Shetty 35:12 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 35:13 You know? I had a nervous breakdown, then I moved to Baltimore. I get a farmhouse there, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm just gonna get out of LA." So I'm m- making a geographical move. I'm like, "I just gotta get back to my roots." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:24 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 35:24 You know, I gotta get back to my roots. And then, um, Will comes along, and I'm like, "Maybe that's it. I need a man," you know? That is like, latch onto that. It's like, okay, that's my new Prozac, Will, you know? He's gon- now it's his job to make my life better.

Jay Shetty 35:44 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 35:45 That doesn't work either.

Jay Shetty 35:47 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 35:48 So the ego's just attached to all these different exterior things until eventually I'm, you know, I had to crash into really having to look at the shambles of my inner world and rebuild, and rebuild it. And I say rebuild it because I feel like when we're born, that inner world is intact.

Jay Shetty 36:10 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 36:10 But I had to really strip it all down, Jay, to the bare bones, the bolts, and just start inwardly from the bottom and just build.

Jay Shetty 36:24 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 36:25 And it's been a wild ride. [laughs] It's been a wild ride of what, what that means and what that looks like.

Jay Shetty 36:32 When it comes to your friendship with Tupac, which you speak about so beautifully in the book, and it's so wonderful because we get an insight- ... into him in a way that you don't as just a fan of the music.

Jada Pinkett Smith 36:45 Right.

Jay Shetty 36:46 So as someone who grew up listening to him myself, it's like you get a certain perception-

Jada Pinkett Smith 36:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 36:52 ... of someone who's intelligent, but then also has this gangster lifestyle-

Jada Pinkett Smith 36:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 36:56 ... persona, et cetera. But then again, when you get context-

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 37:01 ... and you get to know about someone through someone who actually knows them-

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:04 Right

Jay Shetty 37:05 ... and what I really appreciate, which I found fascinating, was just how you had the wisdom at that time to know that someone would be a special friend-

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:16 Yeah

Jay Shetty 37:16 ... without being romantic with them.

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 37:21 Talk to us about it, because I feel like a lot of people struggle.

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:25 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:25 He was obviously into you in- when you first met, et cetera, the way you describe it, but it's like... And, and there's even one point where you dare him to-

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:33 I did

Jay Shetty 37:33 ... to kiss you.

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:33 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 37:33 Yeah, which was brilliant.

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:35 And, and I want you to tell that, but, but what I find fascinating and what I want to help people with here is, like, how were you able to create and build a relationship with someone knowing initially that it was based on some attraction-

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:47 Right

Jay Shetty 37:47 ...

Jay Shetty 37:48 but actually you knew there was so much more to it? How were you able to allow that to unfold? Because I think so many of us get so scared. If we're not into someone, we go, "Oh, God, I'm just gonna push them away."

Jada Pinkett Smith 37:58 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:58 Or that person eventually tries to make a move anyway. But here it was like this beautiful respect, this... You both created that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 38:06 Yeah, we both did. We both had the intelligence. You know, we were both really young, so I think, I thank the great Supreme for this too, that [laughs] there was no physical chemistry between us. I mean, literally. It was like... And it wa- I, I try to explain this to people. It was the same for Pac. It was just like when I dared him to kiss me, he was... I mean, it was like, ew, for us both, right? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 38:39 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 38:39 And we look... It's like, how can that be? How can you feel so connected to someone of the opposite sex? There was just this beautiful understanding. You know when you can just sit with somebody in a room and you don't have to say a word?

Jay Shetty 38:54 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 38:54 And there's just this level of comfort.

Jay Shetty 38:56 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 38:57 We just knew each other.

Jay Shetty 38:58 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 38:58 The, the moment Pac saw me, and our eyes, and I saw his peanut head across the room-

Jay Shetty 39:04 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 39:05 [laughs] At Baltimore School for the Arts, it was like I knew him already.

Jay Shetty 39:09 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 39:10 We just got each other. I just understood him.

Jay Shetty 39:12 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 39:13 In that understanding, and he understood me, so we could pull each other's coattails, but we could also join each other. When I talk about that joining, when you can sit with somebody and really feel like they see you, they understand you, they care about you, and they're gonna be there by you no matter what. That was Tupac.

Jay Shetty 39:34 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 39:35 He was gonna ride with me no matter what. He was so authentic, and, and it's rare-

Jay Shetty 39:40 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 39:41 ... that y- that level of authenticity. And he was so... He had, wore his heart on his sleeve, and there was just this amount of loyalty between us. And I think also the fact that we both struggled with mothers who were addicts.

Jay Shetty 39:56 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 39:57 And we tried to compensate for one another of not having that peace.

Jay Shetty 40:04 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:05 And we didn't boo-hoo about it. We understood how to fill in the, um, voids without getting all Hallmarky about it. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:16 Yeah. [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:17 You know what I mean? [laughs] You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 40:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:20 And so the, it was... So we just kind of knew how to flow with each other in a way that was very comfortable.

Jay Shetty 40:27 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:27 It's always hard to kind of explain because it was like, it's-

Jay Shetty 40:31 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:31 ... it's almost like he, he was really a kindred. That's, that's the only way-

Jay Shetty 40:35 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:35 ... I could really explain it, and I feel so lucky and so blessed that I got to know a being like himself in that way, 'cause he was such a dynamic person.

Jay Shetty 40:49 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:49 But you can feel it 'cause his music is still lasting for generations now.

Jay Shetty 40:54 Absolutely.

Jada Pinkett Smith 40:55 You know? So he, he was just a treasure.

Jay Shetty 40:58 Teach us, what's the difference between sexual chemistry and energetic connection or-

Jada Pinkett Smith 41:03 Yeah

Jay Shetty 41:03 ... authentic connection? Because I think we often think that to get close to someone, you need that. And here it's not just about the fact that there wasn't attraction

Jay Shetty 41:15 or w- it, it wa- there's more to it in that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 41:17 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:17 I feel like there's a subtle difference in how you were able to accept that there is a authentic connection, but it doesn't have to include-

Jada Pinkett Smith 41:26 It doesn't

Jay Shetty 41:27 ... a physical chemistry in order to have a deep energetic connection, if that makes sense as a-

Jada Pinkett Smith 41:33 I actually think in my experience, some of the deepest connections that I've had with men have not included sex whatsoever.

Jay Shetty 41:44 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 41:45 Right? And I think that sex sometimes can cloud things. A lot of, a lot of things come in that a lot of people don't understand. So you, you know, whether it's like j- certain levels of emotional trauma, all these kinds of things. Energetically, the, the heart-to-heart spirit space has a level of purity to it, where even if things get difficult, like when things would get challenging with Pac and I, we could get to it fast.

Jay Shetty 42:18 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 42:20 And there's just a level of purity, and it's not attached to, "I want to make things right with you so I can sleep with you." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:29 Mm-hmm. [laughs] That's it. Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 42:31 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 42:32 There's not that agenda.

Jada Pinkett Smith 42:33 It's not that agenda.

Jay Shetty 42:33 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 42:33 The agendas are pure.

Jay Shetty 42:35 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 42:35 They're more pure, and it, it has more space. It's like, "I love you, but you got to live your life."

Jay Shetty 42:41 Mm-hmm. I can actually be truthful

Jada Pinkett Smith 42:43 ... I can be truthful. I can be honest. I think that with us, I could be more of myself because one thing I knew about Pac, I never had to worry about, you know, when we had big blowups, which we did all the time, he's coming back. I never worried about that. I never worried about, "Oh my God, Tupac..." No. He can go-

Jay Shetty 43:09 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 43:10 Listen, whether it's a year, whether it's a year, a, a week, three days, I had to love all that Pac was. He loved all that I was, the good and the bad, and he was gonna be right there with that, and vice versa. That was one of the most beautiful aspects of our relationship. We didn't have to fake it. We didn't have to, like, pretend to be other things, and we could be honest. He could pull my coattails. I could pull his coattails.

Jay Shetty 43:35 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 43:35 I could give him all the praise and love on him, all I wanted to, and not have to worry about, oh, oh, now we're gonna have to have sex. You know, like-

Jay Shetty 43:44 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 43:44 ... none of that 'cause that wasn't happening.

Jay Shetty 43:47 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 43:47 We just didn't, [laughs] we didn't have that kind of [laughs] street. We just didn't have it.

Jay Shetty 43:50 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 43:51 I think if Pac had survived Vegas, he and Will would've ended up being really good friends.

Jay Shetty 44:00 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:01 You know, they would have had a lot to offer one another.

Jay Shetty 44:03 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:04 And funny enough, Will was the only person, when I started dating him, Pac never s- like, said anything. If I dated anybody else, Pac had to, had something to say. He didn't think anybody was good enough.

Jay Shetty 44:18 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:18 Which I understand, right? But when I started dating Will-

Jay Shetty 44:22 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:22 ... he didn't say anything, which meant to me, in his own way, he approved. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 44:28 [laughs] Yeah. When he didn't say anything.

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:30 Right. Right.

Jay Shetty 44:30 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:30 He didn't say anything-

Jay Shetty 44:31 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:31 ... which was like, okay, not a word-

Jay Shetty 44:34 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:34 ... which made me believe he approved.

Jay Shetty 44:38 Yeah. No, I think it's, it's so beautiful to reflect on that friendship because I think it's so hopegiving to so many people who, you know, sometimes lose out on those kind of relationships because we don't see where else it can go.

Jada Pinkett Smith 44:51 Oh, it could go so many places.

Jay Shetty 44:52 But, but there's so much value, there's so much value to that. And there's the, you know, the part in the book where you talk about how you never got to be there when Vegas happened. Like, you weren't there. You hadn't talked for a year, I think, at the time-

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:06 We had a big-

Jay Shetty 45:07 ... is what you said

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:08 ... yeah, we had a big blowup

Jay Shetty 45:09 ... what would you have said to him, or what would you say to him, or what, what, what did you want him to know? Or what were you so sure that he already knew and you're thinking to yourself, "I just wanted to remind him of this," what would that be?

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:20 I w- I didn't have to remind him of anything.

Jay Shetty 45:23 He knew it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:24 Pac knew. I adored him. I have no doubt in my mind that he left this world knowing that, not one-

Jay Shetty 45:34 What a great feeling

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:35 ... yeah. That's never been the issue for me.

Jay Shetty 45:37 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:38 We did that dance a lot.

Jay Shetty 45:40 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:40 Sometimes have blowups, and we were b- we're both very stubborn, and I'll let people read the book to-

Jay Shetty 45:46 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:46 ... that blowup and-

Jay Shetty 45:48 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 45:48 ... you know, what led to that. But, um, I think sometimes, what sometimes still hurts is that me feeling like maybe I couldn't do enough once he left.

Jay Shetty 46:03 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 46:04 Like, I'm thinking to myself, "Oh my God, what would Pac have done?"

Jay Shetty 46:07 No.

Jada Pinkett Smith 46:07 Like, if it had been me in a car in Vegas and got-

Jay Shetty 46:10 Oh, right

Jada Pinkett Smith 46:10 ... you know... He would've wreaked havoc. So that ego-

Jay Shetty 46:14 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 46:15 ... sometimes comes into play, like, just feeling so helpless that he was taken in that way, and there was nothing I could do. To this day, that gnaws at me.

Jay Shetty 46:33 Mm. You know, for what it's worth, I really believe that the way you write, and we, by the way, everyone who's listening and watching, there is so much more to unpack in the book, which I highly recommend you read. As you're going through it, and you'll come to this part, but I, I really believe that the way you honor and appreciate and respect your dear friend in the book is really beautiful and special. And it's like, it's hard to describe as well, but it's a really wonderful lens into a human-

Jada Pinkett Smith 47:01 I love that

Jay Shetty 47:01 ... that is so, you know, larger than life in so many ways.

Jada Pinkett Smith 47:04 And I wanted to also kinda... There's been so many misconceptions about-

Jay Shetty 47:09 Of course

Jada Pinkett Smith 47:09 ... our relationship 'cause people are like, oh, you know, have a difficult time understanding that he and I could actually be friends. But just wanted to give people such, just an insight on, you know, the beauty of our friendship that I just cherish to this day so very much, you know? And I wanted to give people a different outlook just of who he was, and I'll say who he is, 'cause he still exists-

Jay Shetty 47:37 Of course

Jada Pinkett Smith 47:37 ... as like, you know. But, so I really wanted that to come across.

Jay Shetty 47:40 Yeah. Yeah, well, we got to understand him, I think, through you, uh, through the perspective of not a rapper, not a icon, not a, but a, a human and a friend, and, like, what he was like as a friend, and I think that that's a very intimate way to, to know about someone, so I love that. I, I wanted to talk to you about, you, you mentioned there, you were like, Will was the only person that Pac didn't, Tupac didn't have an issue with.

Jada Pinkett Smith 48:06 Yeah, [laughs] that I dated, yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:07 And, and I love that. And, and you know how much, I mean, you know, I've always been open about it, and we've talked about it, and I, I met Will through you, and it's like, I, I've always said that when I met you and the whole family, and, and when I met him, you were everything and more. All of you are everything and more.

Jada Pinkett Smith 48:27 Right.

Jay Shetty 48:27 Uh, and what I mean by that is everything I'd wanted you to be, plus so much more.

Jada Pinkett Smith 48:32 Right.

Jay Shetty 48:33 Uh, and, and he's that, too, i- in- in so many ways. And I think that it's really interesting because when you're talking about in the book of, like, I, I love the conversation you refer to when you're like, your, your mom's like, you know, "Get him off the phone."

Jada Pinkett Smith 48:47 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:47 Like, she's like, she, that's one of her moments of being Adrian.

Jada Pinkett Smith 48:50 Right, right, right. Yes, exactly.

Jay Shetty 48:51 But, but what I love about it the most is that it is true that from the outside, as you set it up, it looks like a fairy tale, and, and, and it felt like that And what I find really fascinating about this again and again and again, pretty much with everyone, is that there is no fairytale love-

Jada Pinkett Smith 49:09 No

Jay Shetty 49:09 ... anywhere on planet Earth.

Jada Pinkett Smith 49:10 No, on the planet. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 49:11 And, and you know, in our own little way, I always talk about this with me and Radhi too, it's like we'll do an interview together where Radhi will tell me all the challenges she has with me, and she'll be crying and upset, and then everyone in the comments will still be like, "You guys are so cute."

Jada Pinkett Smith 49:25 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 49:25 And I'm like, "No, no, no. We're, we're not trying to say we're cute." Like, this is, like, real issues.

Jada Pinkett Smith 49:30 Right.

Jay Shetty 49:30 Like, real stuff that, you know, we've talked about. Obviously-

Jada Pinkett Smith 49:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 49:33 ... you spend a ton of time with me and Radhi. And so I, I think for me what's really interesting is that, yes, from the outside when you see two incredible actors, performers, artists, talent get together, you're like, "Wow, powerhouse couple." Everyone projects their expectations. Uh, you have beautiful, adorable kids. You know, like, Jaden's acting, and he's a, he's, like, the cutest thing in the world.

Jada Pinkett Smith 49:54 Right.

Jay Shetty 49:55 And Willow too. And it's like it's so interesting because we also, we like to build up our dreams in people.

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:03 And we like to project our dreams onto people because I think as viewers it makes us believe that it's possible.

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:11 And we live through people, and we aspire for it. Not that we aspire for the success and the fame, but that we aspire for the like, "Well, if they can get it right, then I can get it right." And it's not a, it's an innocent-

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:22 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 50:22 ... belief that we all have.

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:23 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 50:24 It's not a... We all have that inside of us, so we have, we all have this... I know that I had that. Like, you know, I was, I was searched it the other day, and it's a term. It's Disney Princess Syndrome.

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:33 [laughs] Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:34 And I was like, "I've had Disney Princess Syndrome," like [laughs] myself.

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:37 Me too. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 50:37 Like, a ton of times. And it's so fascinating to me. For anyone who doesn't get the reference, the point is that every Disney princess is always looking for her prince.

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:46 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:47 And I would say regardless of gender, that's true. Like, I feel that way, where I've been looking for my princess or my win-

Jada Pinkett Smith 50:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 50:54 ... or my award, whatever it may be. And I wanted you to walk us through, like, what were the stages and how would you define the stages as you do in this book, your stages of your relationship with Will?

Jada Pinkett Smith 51:07 Mm.

Jay Shetty 51:07 Because I feel that that's the part

Jay Shetty 51:10 that people get blurry because they're looking at it through their lens.

Jada Pinkett Smith 51:14 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 51:14 But you both have been so clear-

Jada Pinkett Smith 51:17 Yeah

Jay Shetty 51:17 ... about stages of your relationship internally, which I actually think is the hardest part.

Jada Pinkett Smith 51:22 Right.

Jay Shetty 51:22 And so how would you define the stages of your partnership with Will that help people understand, like, the conversations that you're having behind the scenes from, like, being madly in love to, you know?

Jada Pinkett Smith 51:33 Yeah. Ooh, the stages of getting to the most authentic, and it's difficult, so I just wanna honor that for a second. Like, it's almost like talking about relationships and the romanticism around the idea of relating is sometimes as detrimental as talking about politics and God. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 52:03 Mm. Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 52:03 Because it's such a s- it's such a staple in how people look at marriage and relating culturally.

Jay Shetty 52:12 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 52:13 Right? And all of the romanticism around it. And Will and I have been what I would consider kind of the relationship goals.

Jay Shetty 52:26 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 52:27 This romanticized version.

Jay Shetty 52:28 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 52:29 I had to, in my own relationship with Will, dissolve my romanticism around what I thought marriage would be, should be. And honestly, we really never had what I would consider the ideal honeymoon stage, you know? Even though you do have the honeymoon stage, but our relationship started with some challenges, you know, because he was divorcing. And then our life just took off like a rocket ship. We just took on this huge life in our early 20s, and where his focus was really about, "Hey, I wanna be the biggest movie star in the world."

Jay Shetty 53:18 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 53:20 And I knew that going into our relationship, and I knew there would be sacrifices with that. And then along the way, and I talk about this in the book, just having those different perspectives-

Jay Shetty 53:32 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 53:33 ... and really trying to figure out how to reconcile those different perspectives, and also deal with a lot of challenges. So I think one of the things that I address in the book in regards to, you know, people thinking that we've had an open marriage, and we haven't had an open marriage. I talk about starting off pretty much early on in our marriage of having the need for transparency, and that is a big difference between, "Hey, you can do whatever you want," you know, versus like, "Hey, here we are, very young people in this place called Hollywood that has a lot of temptation. Let's have a partnership around this. Let's be very realistic of what this life is." If we're talking about we're going to be together forever and ever and ever, that means there's gonna be some temptations that come up. Let's be in partnership, and let's talk about that. I didn't go into my marriage like, "I am going to be-

Jay Shetty 54:44 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 54:45 ... My husband is never, ever, ever gonna look at anybody else." You know what I mean? [laughs] Like, I, y- I just, I am just a realist in a lot of ways.

Jay Shetty 54:56 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 54:57 I know what it's been like for me.

Jay Shetty 54:59 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 55:00 Right? When I first came to Hollywood and I could go into the clubs and have anybody- Just the, the level of just like, that just, the, the like [laughs] You know what I mean? It's just like you just- Yeah, intoxicating It's so intoxicating. That's one. Now, what I do believe that what people don't know that I talk about in the book a lot is that there have been several breakups between Will and I. Will talks about it, my 40th birthday Mm-hmm ... which was a big breakup for us. We were actually looking towards separating and divorcing, and we separated. The world just didn't know. Then we had a reconciliation, and then 2016 came, and we had the ultimate break. Mm-hmm. But the world didn't know. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's where some of the misconception about having an open marriage came into play because we were living lives as single people- Mm-hmm ... and the world didn't know. Over the span of 12 years of just trying to figure out this thing called love and marriage between Will and I, it's been a trip, and I think that even with that entanglement piece, which I talk about extensively in the book- Mm-hmm ... how I played a part in the misconception of that narrative of allowing myself to be portrayed as an adulteress, allowing myself to be portrayed as someone that had betrayed Will, and that wasn't the case. We broke up in 2016. He went on to live a life as a single man. I went on to live a life as a single woman. And then when we had the talk at the Red Table, I was gonna go to the Red Table by myself- Mm-hmm ... to talk about the entanglement. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But Will decided he wanted to come with me, and we were going to then tell the world, "Hey, we haven't been together, and this happened during that time." But when we got to the table, Will wasn't ready. He wasn't ready. He wasn't ready for the world to know that. I had to respect that. Well, I didn't have to, but I wanted to. But I was ready. I was ready to let go of the persona I had created around myself that had put me in a golden cage. I wanted to let that go, and so I had to stay on my journey. I had to stay on my path while also respecting- Mm ... that Will wasn't ready. So I said, "You know what? This is my mess anyway. I'm gonna take this heat," because guess what? The heat is coming either way, whether when we decide to get divorced, when we decide to separate, whatever w- whatever. This is my practice run. Strip it down. Let it go, Jada, and then let's see what's left. I didn't have to put that particular show out, but I had already gotten myself so ready for that journey for myself, and to me, that was moving closer to my freedom than holding back and creating a narrative that I felt like was just gonna entrap me more. And as difficult as it's been, 'cause the irony is I spent so much of our relationship having this open communication between the, between he and I, creating this beautiful friendship of authenticity and, um, honesty, and so to be labeled as someone who had cheated on him was devastating, but it also put me in a position where I had to learn how to let go of what I didn't, anybody thought about me and really be 10 toes down on understanding who I am and being able to walk in that, no matter what anybody thought about me. But I needed that journey for myself. You know, it's kind of like that is the walk, when they talk about walking on hot coals. It's like creating that level of when we talk about that inner world work and creating that, like, strong foundation within yourself of knowing exactly who you are, no matter what other people think about you. I mean, I've gotten that to a certain degree, and so that was a very challenging moment. And I talk about it in the book because I feel like so many people are challenged in that way of like, how can I just walk in this world- Mm-hmm ... and be okay with myself no matter what? Mm-hmm. And I talk about the journey, you know, really extensively in the book. Um, but there have been so many misconceptions about my relationship with Will, but I think that everybody suffers misconceptions. Once again, whether you're head of the PTA and your husband's that doctor and you're the lawyer, [laughs] you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're, you're like the crème de la crème of your friend group or, you know, of your community, and so everybody's expecting you to have a certain kinda marriage. Mm-hmm. And marriage is a journey. Mm-hmm. You know? And it's a journey towards learning how to love yourself and learning how to love your partner. Mm-hmm. And there's not one way to do it, and everybody, I think we do that journey a real disservice of trying to make it this cookie cut thing. Like, no, no, no, you can only do it this way. And it's like each and every person in their relationship, they have to look at what their relationship is calling for in regards to what is needed to get your marriage to the love, to the strength, to the understanding, to the friendship, and to that unconditional place. And the unfortunate part is that we think once we get married, like, somebody is ready-made. They know how to love you, even though they don't know how to love themselves. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:44 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:01:44 They don't know, they don't know how to love themselves, but you better know how to love me.

Jay Shetty 1:01:48 Yeah. I wanna highlight, because I think it's often can be missed at least, is, you know, when you had that conversation on Red Table Talk, it would've been so easy to not have that conversation-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:02 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:02:02 ... publicly because people would have their rumors.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:06 It would blow over, and then it would be over.

Jay Shetty 1:02:09 And I'm only raising this because I know how much for you it was part of the work you were doing.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:16 And that's why I'm raising this because I think what's really interesting is that when someone's trying to do deep inner healing work-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:24 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:02:24 ... actually, more often than not, their external way will not make sense.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:30 Oh, yeah, for sure. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:31 Because it literally looks like you're setting yourself up-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:35 Yourself up

Jay Shetty 1:02:35 ... to fail.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:36 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:37 Because when you're really trying to dismantle the ego or you're really trying to deconstruct the false identities that we all build up, me included, all of us, like, when, when that is there and it's being deconstructed, someone would look at you and be like, "Why would you do that?"

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:02:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:54 Like, "Why, why do I need to know?" Why... And really, I, I just wanna highlight and I want you to share about that, that the intention was healing.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:03 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 1:03:03 The intention wasn't to save face or the intent... And I know this 'cause we were talking about it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:07 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:03:07 Like, the intention wasn't to-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:09 Yeah, it wasn't to save face.

Jay Shetty 1:03:11 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:11 And it surely wasn't, and I need people to know, I didn't ask Will to come to the table.

Jay Shetty 1:03:16 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:16 That was not my idea.

Jay Shetty 1:03:18 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:19 Will wanted to come to the table 'cause he didn't want me to be there by myself. He had all the best intentions.

Jay Shetty 1:03:25 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:26 And got there and was, I think, his trauma response kicked in. Like, "I'm not ready." So many people were like, "Don't do this." And I'm like, "Nah, I'm doing it."

Jay Shetty 1:03:38 For myself.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:39 For myself.

Jay Shetty 1:03:40 Because I wanna live the-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:03:41 Because I'm ready. I don't want this whole thing anymore, this whole Jada, Will. I'm done with that. It was part of the work that I was ready for, and it was what I needed. And everybody's in different places in their journey. Also, that's also a dynamic I had to look at within myself in regards to... So it was two things. There's this healthy Jada that's like, "Tear it down. I want an, I don't want that persona anymore. Tear my ego down."

Jay Shetty 1:04:18 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:04:18 And there was this other part of me that was like, "Oh my God, I need to prot-" you know?

Jay Shetty 1:04:21 They're gonna hate me.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:04:21 "He's not ready," you know? "He's not ready." My, you know, codependency kicks in and I go, "This is what I do. I'm the martyr. I can do the martyr thing." So once again, it's both things. It's healing, like, "I'm ready." Like, I'm ready for, I'm ready for the tear-down. And then this martyr that's like, "And I wanna make sure, Will, as long as you're okay, I'm okay." That's part of my relationship with my mother's addiction that I brought into my relationship with Will that created a certain dynamic within myself, in my relationship with him, that I also needed to get my eyes on that I didn't see.

Jay Shetty 1:05:07 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:05:08 That that needed to be healed as well. Without that table, without that moment, I would have never recognized that. As painful as it was for people to watch, existential disappointment in a collective, I'm so sorry. I wish it could have happened another way. I'm sorry that it had to be so messy in front of everybody. I'm sorry. But I needed that, what I got to clear up, what I got to clean up, what I got to see, and to be able to sit here with you today and embrace it all, and have so much acceptance for myself for all of the choices I've made. And people ask me, "If you had to do it over again, would you do it any different?" I don't think so.

Jay Shetty 1:06:01 Honestly, like, it, knowing and talking to you, I found it to be so courageous and so full of strength because it was putting yourself on the spot like in no other way.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:06:15 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:06:16 And I can't even begin to understand how uncomfortable it is. I only can from the conversations we had. Like-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:06:24 Well, you were right there with me, Jay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:26 But the level of discomfort-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:06:28 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:06:28 ... that you were willing to put yourself in-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:06:31 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:06:31 ... in order to let go of an identity, in order to let go of a perception. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm saying it in these words because I just want everyone who's listening and watching just to, to think about it for a second. Like, imagine you had to go [laughs] in front of everyone you knew, your family, your friends, your school, whoever it is that you're around, your people at work, and you had to share a secret-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:06:57 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:06:57 ... that wasn't a secret between you and the person you're with, but was a secret to them.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:03 To the, to the, yes.

Jay Shetty 1:07:03 Just, just think about that, whatever [laughs] that secret is.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:05 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:07:06 Everyone has secrets. Everyone has something, uh, you know, and to do that requires just so much courage and strength, and it also shows the I think you were just apologizing that it was so messy. I, I also think that it is uncomfortable, like growth is uncomfortable-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:22 It's so-

Jay Shetty 1:07:22 ... and like letting go of shedding identities is uncomfortable. And I'm not comparing my experience to yours at all because it's not the same in any way, but I, I'm trying to explain how like a tiny PDA, like my-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:34 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:07:34 ... kind of like version of it is still as big. I remember the day I told my friends and my family and my teachers that I no longer thought I could be a monk. And it sounds so small, like now-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:45 No

Jay Shetty 1:07:45 ... looking back.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:45 Yeah, but-

Jay Shetty 1:07:46 But at the time-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:47 Time

Jay Shetty 1:07:47 ... as someone who had like-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:48 [laughs] Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:07:49 ... I was dedicating my life... You've met my teachers-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:51 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:07:51 ... so you know I'm dedicating my life.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:07:53 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:07:53 I'm like doing this big thing, and then all of a sudden I come to the conclusion that this thought in my head of I'm not good enough, I'm not a monk, I'm not meant to be, like this isn't my path-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:08:02 Right

Jay Shetty 1:08:02 ... I have other desires, whatever it may be, I, I think I should get married, you know, all this stuff-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:08:07 Right

Jay Shetty 1:08:07 ... and you're so... You feel so much shame-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:08:10 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:08:10 ... around the fact that you do- you're not good enough, and what are people gonna say?

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:08:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:16 And even for me, that was just my temple community and my friends and my family, and even then it was like as if someone was ripping my ego out of my chest-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:08:26 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:08:26 ... because that's what it feels like. It feels like an extraction of-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:08:30 Oh, absolutely

Jay Shetty 1:08:30 ... you know, not that I'm ego-less now, but that, that was such a big way of crushing that part of my ego. And so I just want people to think about it through that perspective, and I'm, and I'm saying it because I think that we all go through periods in our life where people misunderstand us. We all go through periods in our life where the people we thought loved us and adored us will now be let down. We all go through experiences in our life where we have to let go of someone that we thought we were or what people thought we were, and those are gonna be the hardest, most painful times. And actually, if we can learn to be graceful instead of when our friends are getting divorced and we're like, "Did you hear?" So we had that. A couple of people in my, my community back at home just got divorced. The whole community's talking about it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:09:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:09:16 And I'm just like, "Guys," like, "we have no idea what was going on for the last 10, 20 years. Let's give them grace," 'cause you never know when that could be you. You have no idea when it could be you. You know? It's... We're so... It's so easy to, to judge and throw stones at anyone and everyone, like, you know? And I just really feel that if we have the ability to be graceful and compassionate when other people are doing that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:09:43 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:09:43 ... we'll actually do it with ourselves. And because we're hard on ourselves-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:09:47 Yep

Jay Shetty 1:09:47 ... we're hard on others.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:09:49 Yes. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:09:49 And because we're hard on others, we're hard on ourselves. And I just, for me, I just wanna see more people be graceful for themselves and for others because there's, there's so much human experience wrapped up in it. So anyway.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:02 Yeah. That's my hope too, you know, that people can have more grace for themselves. But I tell you, I think one of the saving factors was that, you know, there were no secrets between Will and I.

Jay Shetty 1:10:17 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:18 And there were no secrets between my kids and I.

Jay Shetty 1:10:21 Yes.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:22 So the fact that my family was absolutely aware of the entire journey-

Jay Shetty 1:10:29 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:30 ... it was a saving grace for me.

Jay Shetty 1:10:32 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:33 Whatever the world wants to think is whatever, you know? Will knows he was not betrayed, and my kids know that I did not betray their father.

Jay Shetty 1:10:41 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:41 And that, to me, all that matters.

Jay Shetty 1:10:44 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:10:44 But it was quite a exercise of having to walk in the world like that, you know, having people think that that's what happened. Just having, um, that exercise in that way has been such a healing factor-

Jay Shetty 1:11:01 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:11:01 ... for me, of just the level of self-love, the level of self-worth that I have because of what that experience has offered me.

Jay Shetty 1:11:15 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:11:15 And I'm not, I'm not saying that anybody else should do it on that level-

Jay Shetty 1:11:18 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:11:19 ... you know? But what I am saying is that there, there are ego deaths that have to occur in order to get to a more authentic place of self-worth and self-love.

Jay Shetty 1:11:33 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I wanna talk about the, the little gurus, as you call them in the book. We start with Trey, who... You know, this book is dedicated to your daughter and the daughters of the people that read it, and to your sons-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:11:45 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:11:46 ... and to the sons of the people that read it, and I wonder what is it that you think you've learned from Trey, that you've been taught by Jaden, and that you've been taught by Willow in your journey with them all? Because you have such a... Whenever I've seen you with them, it's, it's... You have such a deep, beautiful, rich relationship with your kids.

Jay Shetty 1:12:05 We were talking about that earlier.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:12:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:12:07 I would love to know what is it that each of them have taught you.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:12:10 Trey, he has such an enormous heart, and I think what I love about Trey is his ability to meet people, join people where they are, his ability to join me. He has a way of seeing the best in people, no matter what, the best in circumstances, no matter what. And even in his most challenging times, challenging relationships, having the willingness to see the person's spirit versus personality.

Jay Shetty 1:12:48 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:12:49 And he's always reminded me of that. "You know, Mom, you know, that pers-" You know what I mean? [laughs] And I'm like, "You know what, Trey? You're right." He and I have kind of been walking parallel. We'll look over at each other and go, "I see you," and he goes, "I see you." You know? [laughs] You know what I mean? And so, you know, we're the two in the family that's really been on a intense walk spiritually, and he has so much perseverance in regards to understanding God-

Jay Shetty 1:13:22 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:13:22 ... finding his way. ... understanding life. I don't know. I f- you know, he's just such a-

Jay Shetty 1:13:29 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:13:29 ... he's such a light.

Jay Shetty 1:13:30 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:13:31 You know? So iron sharpens iron. He'll walk in the kitchen, he go, "Mom, look at me. What, what you think I'm feeling today?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:13:39 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:13:39 You know what I mean? Or he'll look at me and go, "Wow."

Jay Shetty 1:13:43 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:13:43 "You know, you're s- you're, like, bright. What's going on with you?" Like, he can just see me.

Jay Shetty 1:13:48 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:13:49 And he can see people, you know? And I'll be like, "Wow, how did you see that? Yeah, this is happening, this is hap..." He's like, "Really?" You know, and he's, he's just, he's just such a light. He's just such a joy. And so he just is always reminding me to look for the best in people, and I just adore him, which is why he's a bonus. You know, he's, [laughs] you know?

Jay Shetty 1:14:12 I love that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:14:13 And then Willow, oh, she's such a fireball.

Jay Shetty 1:14:17 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:14:17 I mean, she, she is, like, the mirror of the fire of my soul. When I tell you she is the mirror of that, like, I get to see m- myself in her in so many ways. What I love most about Willow is that she is to the point, you know what I mean? [laughs] She is, like, she doesn't have a whole lot of play-play.

Jay Shetty 1:14:45 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:14:45 She's just like, "No, no." She just hits it on the mark, where sometimes I can be very flowery, you know, very gentle. And I also love how she loves me.

Jay Shetty 1:14:57 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:14:58 She teaches me a lot about love. She teaches me a lot about, when I talked about being able to join, like, she teaches me a lot about how to join her and how to join others-

Jay Shetty 1:15:12 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:15:12 ... in ways that I'm not used to. I know how to join others in ways that I'm used to, but me having to learn how to join her in a certain manner, I've had to come out of my comfort zones and really be like, oh man, I'm very deficient here. And her patience with me with that deficiency, she's so patient with me. She's like, "It's okay, Mom."

Jay Shetty 1:15:35 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:15:35 You know, sometimes, "I don't need you to talk to me, Mom, just hold me." I'm like, "Oh, that's all you want me to do? You just want me... That's all?"

Jay Shetty 1:15:41 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:15:42 I'm not used to that. You know, I don't come from a family where affection, you know, that we don't, we don't hug each other and hold each other. That's not what we did. But Willow?

Jay Shetty 1:15:53 Yeah. [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:15:54 "Ma, I don't need your advice."

Jay Shetty 1:15:55 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:15:56 "I just wanna sit here. Hold me while I cry." And then I have to learn how to, I've had to learn, she's taught me how to hold tears and really be able to join with those tears and not rebel and, you know, like, have them repel, 'cause then they bring up my tears. And so she's learned, she's taught me how to love my tears, too. You know, those places within myself that I haven't always been willing to go, you know? And now I cry all the time, you know, and I call it the thawing because for so long I wasn't a- allowed, I didn't allow myself to cry, you know? So she's taught me that.

Jay Shetty 1:16:32 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:16:32 And then there's Jaden. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:16:35 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:16:36 Oh, man. Jaden, he's just walking joy.

Jay Shetty 1:16:40 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:16:41 I mean, he comes in the room and it's just like, "Jaden!" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:16:44 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:16:45 You know? He's just walking joy, but he was like that when I carried him.

Jay Shetty 1:16:48 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:16:49 I was the happiest I had ever been in my life when I was pregnant with Jaden, and I think that had a lot to do with the energy that he carries.

Jay Shetty 1:16:57 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:16:58 He has the capacity to love everything.

Jay Shetty 1:17:00 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:01 And that is difficulty, challenging people, challenging situations. He has the capacity to love it all and find the beauty in it.

Jay Shetty 1:17:16 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:17 And I'm, I'm talking about sincerely.

Jay Shetty 1:17:19 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:19 And it is, like, that's a God-given gift.

Jay Shetty 1:17:22 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:22 That's not, you can't teach that.

Jay Shetty 1:17:24 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:24 And so he just... I was sitting, uh, you know, I was just talking to him t- the other day and I was just like, "Oh, I was reading this book, Emotionally Immature Parents."

Jay Shetty 1:17:33 Ooh.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:34 And I was like, "Jaden, you gotta read this book. Your mother's a, has been an emotionally immature parent." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:17:40 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:17:40 Right? I said, "You gotta read this book." And he said, um, "You know what, Ma?" He said, "Things from afar can look a certain way, but when you put a microscope up on something and you look at it close up," he was like, "it is such a weird shape."

Jay Shetty 1:18:02 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:18:02 "Weird, beautiful shapes of things, but you get to see the intricacies of it, and it's so much more. And that's what you are to me. You're like this beautiful, intricate organism that I love so much. Don't ever apologize to me again." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:18:21 [laughs] That's so beautiful.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:18:23 You know what I mean? And that's just how his mind works.

Jay Shetty 1:18:27 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:18:28 You know, and he comes over and he hugs me, and he kisses me on my forehead. You know what I'm saying? And he's like, "You br- you gave birth to me, that, don't ever apologize to me," you know? And he's like, "And I'm not reading that book." I said, "I'm gonna get you the book anyway."

Jay Shetty 1:18:41 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:18:41 "You need to read it." [laughs] You know, I'm always apologizing to my kids about all kinds of things. I think it's so important for parents to apologize. Say sorry, you know? I've gotten in the habit, every little, like, if I misunderstand something or if there's, like, this, like, little glip, you know what? I didn't quite get that then. I'm so sorry. I apologize. I'm gonna do better next time with that.

Jay Shetty 1:19:08 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:08 And thank you for your patience.

Jay Shetty 1:19:09 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:10 I think it's important, you know?

Jay Shetty 1:19:12 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:12 I wish my father had apologized to me more.

Jay Shetty 1:19:15 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:15 My mom apologizes, too. I actually learned that from her.

Jay Shetty 1:19:18 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:19 She's apologized a lot. And I actually said the same thing to her, now that I'm thinking about it.

Jay Shetty 1:19:24 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:24 "Stop apologizing to me." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:19:27 But isn't that the, those are the best relationships where- Someone does something

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:32 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:19:32 ... and the other person is like, "It's fine."

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:35 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:19:36 And that's what kind of, it's, it's that relationship where internally y- you're happy you heard it, but you know you didn't need to.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:44 Right

Jay Shetty 1:19:45 But the person still felt the need to say it, and there, it, it creates so much clarity. And, you know, when I told Willow you were coming on today, she sent a little note-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:55 Aw

Jay Shetty 1:19:55 ... that I wanna read to you.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:19:57 No

Jay Shetty 1:19:58 Uh, because I was, I was talking to her about it, and I was talking to her about the book, and so she sent this little note that I wanna read to you if that's okay.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:20:07 Oh my God.

Jay Shetty 1:20:07 All right.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:20:07 Let me get my napkin.

Jay Shetty 1:20:09 So she said, this is from Willow. And Willow, if I don't read it as you would in your amazing voice-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:20:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:20:15 ... then please forgive me. I'm, I'm also apologizing to you in advance. "Mom, I am incomprehensibly proud of you and all of the inner excavation you have done during the writing of your book. There were many times during the process where you would read me sections and deep emotions would come up for us both. Learning from you through learning about you is one of the biggest joys of my life. You never cease to inspire me with how wide you've opened your heart, not only to the immense joys of life, but also to the deep uncertainties and shadows with equal gratitude and grace. You have shown me true tenderness and true strength come from the same place within, and that is something that I aspire to show others. Thank you for loving me. I'm so grateful for you." And, uh-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:21:14 The guru. That's the little guru right there. There it is

Jay Shetty 1:21:18 She loves you so much, and they all obviously love you so much. But when I read that and when I was reflecting on it, it was just... And I, as me and Radhi always talk about this, 'cause we've watched you and Willow so many times together, and it has been so inspiring to us to see that connection you both have, and the openness you have with your kids, and how well they understand you. And, you know, as you were just saying, you're always apologizing, but that's what they're seeing.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:21:47 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:21:48 They see that because you're so willing to share with them.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:21:53 Yeah. I don't, I don't keep secrets from my kids. I've let them see my deepest flaws, and I think that's important. I mean, and not in the way that... We have to be careful with that, too. But I mean, just as far as like it's okay to be human, not being afraid to show my humanness, 'cause that's the one thing with my mother that I have so much gratitude

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:22:14 for-

Jay Shetty 1:22:14 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:22:15 ... that I could see her as a human being. And my relationship with, you know, my mother being an addict and me being able to relate to her as not just my mother, but as a, a woman, you know, as a person, and I think that was one aspect that I felt like I really needed to bring into my relationship with my kids-

Jay Shetty 1:22:39 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:22:40 ... for them to see me as a person.

Jay Shetty 1:22:43 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:22:43 We're in this together.

Jay Shetty 1:22:45 Yeah. It comes across when I've witnessed it. It's, it's the most beautiful thing. I could only ever dream that when Radhi and I are able to do that, that, you know, that we-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:22:57 You will

Jay Shetty 1:22:57 ... have what you have. It's, it's really special. It's remarkable to watch in, in practice, and I, and I mean that. And, you know, the message says it all. But Jada, I wanted, you know, I... Throughout this book and, and even in this interview today, I think... I was gonna save this to say it later, but I'm gonna say it now. I've been sharing spirituality with people in different ways since I was 18 years old, and I was so young and immature then in my spirituality, and I still am today, and that will always continue. And I've just been fortunate to sit at the feet of incredible teachers and mentors, and so any realization I've had earlier than I should have had it is because of sitting with elders and, you know, sitting with the teachers I've introduced you to, and I've rarely met someone who's as eager for healing as you.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:23:54 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:23:55 I don't think I've met a family that's more, where healing is the top priority.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:24:01 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:24:02 And it's such an interesting thing to perceive in someone, because you can tell by someone's language and when their eyes light up and their body language changes as to what they are motivated by. And ever since I met you, from the first day we met, backstage green room for Red Table-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:24:24 Yes. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:24 ... Talk series two launch day event-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:24:27 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:24:27 ... I was getting to host and interview you-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:24:29 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:24:30 ... Gabby, and, and Willow. And I remember you'd asked me, like, "What did you learn as a monk?" And I'd said to you... I was, I was giving to you the, what I did learn as practices, but I wasn't getting to the root of it. So I was explaining the practices, like gratitude and meditation and mindfulness and service, and you were, you were kind of just like, "Oh, that's cool." Like, you know. It was... And then I'd said to you, because I felt a inner voice say that I should, and it was truly guided from within, and I said to you, "I learned how to love God." And that was potentially the first time I'd even said that in that way to someone. And you just like, your whole body language and your eyes and everything just changed. And everyone else was late, so we were just talking, and you were like, "I wanna learn how to love God, too." And you'd obviously already been on that journey for decades, like, you know, and you talk about it in the book where you started with the Ethical Society and-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:25:34 Right

Jay Shetty 1:25:34 ... you know, that had been a journey. That had been a part of your journey forever. But it was so interesting to me- To meet someone and an entire family who is more focused on healing and growth and, and God in their own way, in your-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:25:48 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:25:48 ... in your own language, in your own, in your own ways than, than anything else. I've never, we've never had a conversation that steers too far away-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:25:56 From that [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:25:56 ... from any of those things.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:25:58 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:25:58 Which would say so... And, and we have fun and we have a good time and everything.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:26:01 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:26:01 But, but that... And the reason I l- I raised that is because I also saw that when you were talking about Oscars night in the book, you referred to as the holy slap and the holy joke, and you've always looked at everything through the lens of, how is this bringing me closer to the divine? I remember one conversation we had about the feminine divine, and I'll never forget it because we'd... At this point, we'd been doing, we'd been talking twice a week for like-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:26:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:26:34 ... a year and a half or something, and we were talking about a specific aspect of the divine feminine, uh, which is often left out or forgotten or, or hidden. I'd never seen anyone respond in a way so sincerely and genuinely to a vision of God as you did, and you said, with tears in your eyes, you're like, "I've been looking for this God for 25 years." And I remember just going, like I, I could just see the, the genuineness and the sincerity in your eyes, and I was just like, "Wow. Like, I hope I can love like that one day." Like, that's actually what I felt. Like, as in it was so inspiring, and I know that I've got closer to divinity through our work, and that's because of your seeking. And you've pulled me closer to the divine through your seeking, which

Jay Shetty 1:27:36 you've given me the greatest gift, like for years and years and years ever since I've known you, and it's your ability to, to look for that. And so I wanted to talk to you about, you know, I think when, when it all went down on Oscars night, the... And you talk about this in the book, and so I want to leave everyone to read about it in full. But the, but the perception was that you were so offended that you'd kind of urge this action, which is bizarre in and of itself for so many reasons that you lay out in the book. But I want to hear from you, like, what were you actually hurt by about the condition that you were going through? And in that gap between what we saw-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:28:23 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:28:23 ... and what we didn't get to see, which everyone had their own theory on, what was actually your thought space, or where were you?

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:28:31 Let me start with-

Jay Shetty 1:28:33 Yeah, absolutely

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:28:33 ... that was a really layered moment. Let me start with also that there was so much that people didn't know in regards to what was happening with Will and I at that time, and I, I will leave for people to get the book.

Jay Shetty 1:28:52 Read. Yeah, absolutely.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:28:53 Because there's so much history.

Jay Shetty 1:28:55 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you go into it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:28:57 Present. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:28:58 You break it down.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:28:58 Pre- I break it down.

Jay Shetty 1:28:59 Yeah. Hence why I did not-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:29:00 Right [laughs] . Exactly

Jay Shetty 1:29:01 ... yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:29:01 There's so much history that I think would give people a lot more context to understand that moment. Let me also say that I know that was a difficult moment to watch because of history that Chris and I had, um, in regards to the 2016 Oscars So White, and I'll let people read to get up to speed on that. But when I first saw Chris's name come on stage, come up as one of the presenters, I said, "Oh, boy." I looked to Will, and I was like, "He's not gonna be able to help himself. This is gonna be something." I was like, I knew. I already knew. And I was like, "Okay." So Will had been going back and forth backstage all night. So when Chris said what he said, I looked to Will as if to say, "See? I knew it," [laughs] right? Um, and then I was like, "Oh, boy, that's not cool to, like, talk about a medical condition that people..." Okay, there's nothing you can... Like, it's, it's, it's not something that can be cured, right? And that how many stories I had heard of people, you know, young people committing suicide, and the shame, and just how many people suffer, and you don't even know. Like, once I had the condition and I saw how many people around me had it, I was like, "All these years I didn't know," and people expressed the shame, the level of shame they had around it. I'm gonna be okay. As far as my condition, as you can see, my hair is growing back. That's what it does. It'll grow. It'll fall out. It'll grow back again. Pieces of my eyebrows will fall out, grow back. You know. I'm having a good moment right now. My alopecia is not as extreme as most people who are dealing with that condition, and I just felt like, "That's not okay." So I wasn't, I wasn't upset about me, and I do- I don't remember actually rolling my eyes. I think what people saw was me looking at Will going, "I told you. I knew he was gonna do that," and, "Oh, boy, here we go again."

Jay Shetty 1:31:13 Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was kind of the reaction, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:31:15 Yeah, you know? Oh, here we go. But I wasn't upset about me. I really wasn't. It wasn't about me. It was just all the stories I had heard and that I continue to hear about people who have suffered from this condition.

Jay Shetty 1:31:29 And obviously, you didn't want what happened to happen. Like, I think that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:31:32 Oh. Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:31:33 ... I'm just clarifying that. I know that. I'm just clarifying it because you said like-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:31:35 Of course. It wasn't like I looked at Will and said, you know, you know.

Jay Shetty 1:31:38 I know, but, and that's the kind of... You know, the, those are the kind of moments of context that have been-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:31:42 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:31:42 ... uh, are lost sometimes.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:31:43 Listen, there was an aspect of that that I was as shocked as anyone because Will and I hadn't been referring to each other as husband and wife since 2016. I was like, "Wife? Me?"

Jay Shetty 1:31:55 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:31:56 [laughs] That's right. I am. I'm... Okay, that's right, I am your wife, and that kicked in. I'm like, "Yep, here we are." In that moment that that did happen, I was like, "We came together, we leaving together." You know, that part of me that put everything else aside and was like, "This is gonna be something. I need to make sure Will's okay. We're gonna get through this." I had no idea that that was... None whatsoever, and I came as family. I actually didn't go to the Oscars as Will's wife, and I know for people that's weird, but what was going on behind the scenes, Will and I had been se- Like, we weren't living as husband and wife-

Jay Shetty 1:32:39 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:32:39 ... since 2016. I was happy he asked me to go. I was happy he wanted to share that moment with me still, and I was gonna be by his side. And I think also people weren't really aware of the journey that had taken place after Emancipation as far as Will's concerned.

Jay Shetty 1:33:02 Totally.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:33:03 It was a really difficult movie, and afterwards he decided to get into therapeutic settings and he asked me to join him-

Jay Shetty 1:33:11 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:33:11 ... 'cause a lot of stuff was coming up, a lot of stuff from his past, childhood stuff. I think people didn't understand that there was a history there between he and Chris as well. So there was a lot of context that people just didn't have.

Jay Shetty 1:33:23 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:33:24 You know? And I'm gonna tell you something else. I understand why people thought it was me. I understand why people blame me. I don't think it's right, but I understand, you know, considering the narratives that were out there that I was part of. I have to take responsibility for that, and I talk about that in the book, you know, me being the adulterous wife that had, you know, pushed Will to his limit. I get it. So I couldn't even take any of it personally, and I had to put myself in the shoes of the audience and go, "If I was looking at this, how would... What would I say?" I probably would've said the same thing.

Jay Shetty 1:33:59 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:34:00 And then that made me really look at, like, oh, man, like, culturally we're always blaming women. Like, I had to really go deep into that.

Jay Shetty 1:34:08 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:34:08 Why do we do that, you know? That men of power that have so much of their ownness in their life, but when something bad happens, it's a woman's fault. [laughs] You know what I mean? It's so interesting, you know, and I had... I really started to examine that, but more so just looking at that narrative and taking responsibility.

Jay Shetty 1:34:30 And at the same time, there was love and compassion for Chris. There was that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:34:34 Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:34:35 ... there was that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:34:37 You know, I talk about that in the book.

Jay Shetty 1:34:39 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:34:41 I've worked with Chris. I know Chris. Am I always a fan of Chris's stage work? No, but Chris as a person, he's a sweet guy. There was a moment when Chris came down to the end of the stage, and you have to understand I'm in deep confusion. I don't know what's going on because of me understanding the context of Will and I behind the scenes, what just happened on the stage. I'm worried about Will. I've never seen that from him.

Jay Shetty 1:35:19 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:35:19 I don't know what's going on, but Chris comes to the end of the stage and he looks at me deeply sincerely, and he says, "Jada, I meant no harm."

Jay Shetty 1:35:33 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:35:34 And it was so sincere in his eyes. I'm like, that's the Chris I know. That's the Chris I've experienced. That's the Chris that a lot of people don't get to see, 'cause people just see Chris on stage doing what Chris does. But I'm glad I had that moment, because with everything else that transpired afterwards, you know, his Netflix, certain comments, and all of that, I could hold onto that sincere moment. So when we talk about looking past personality, and when somebody has had that opportunity to show you their heart, to show you their spirit, that's the truth, not all the other stuff that hurt, misunderstanding, confusion-

Jay Shetty 1:36:18 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:36:18 ... might bring up. So were my feelings hurt when I heard what was happening as far as the Netflix? Of course, my feelings were hurt, but I didn't take it personally, 'cause I re- I can see his eyes right now as I'm talking to you, and that's the truth of Chris's spirit.

Jay Shetty 1:36:39 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:36:40 "Jada, I meant no harm." I talk about it in the book. It's like you gotta have grace when we're hurt. I'm not saying that I agree with how it was handled. I don't agree with it, but I understand. And so my hope is that there will be

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:37:05 such a beautiful opportunity for healing, and my hope is that that will occur as time.

Jay Shetty 1:37:12 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:37:13 Everything needs time. You have two beautiful men who have hurts and who have hurt one another, but they're both beautiful men.

Jay Shetty 1:37:28 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:37:29 And as I said before, my hope is that these two very capable, beautiful men at some time figure out how to resolve this whole thing-

Jay Shetty 1:37:45 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:37:45 ... of the present and of the past. You know? 'Cause life is about healing, man.

Jay Shetty 1:37:50 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:37:50 It's like life's too short.

Jay Shetty 1:37:51 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:37:52 And, you know, sometimes conflicts can really amplify love. They really can. I know it has for me, and that's why I called that chapter- The holy slap. The holy joke, the holy slap, and the holy lessons because through all of this conflict that I've been in the midst of, all this misunderstanding that I've been in the midst of, it's helped amplify love within my heart. It's made my heart more elastic.

Jay Shetty 1:38:20 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:38:21 Hate, and I've really have been able to understand how hate has a ceiling. You know, hate, aggression, um-

Jay Shetty 1:38:29 Mm. Wow

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:38:30 ... you know?

Jay Shetty 1:38:31 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:38:31 It, it has a ceiling, whereas love is oh.

Jay Shetty 1:38:34 Mm. Wow.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:38:37 But it takes so much courage, and it's so easy to go into aggression. It's so easy to go into, you know, hateful feelings. It's easy.

Jay Shetty 1:38:50 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:38:51 And I can't blame anybody for doing it, and I have no judgment, 'cause guess what? Been there, done that.

Jay Shetty 1:38:58 Mm-hmm. You know, Jada, when, uh, you started today, you said that, you know, this is your journey from being unlovable to trying to find love again, and it's really, it's really the true story of all of our lives of just we're all on that journey of being unlovable, thinking that if someone loves us, we'll be fine, then thinking that if we get or achieve this, we'll be fine, then thinking, "If I love this person perfectly, then I'll be fine."

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:39:27 [laughs] Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:39:28 And it's like we, we keep filling in that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:39:31 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:39:31 ... that sentence between unlovable with, to lovable with so many versions, and I think what this book, this memoir does so beautifully, honestly, is you show us every version that you tried to fit-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:39:45 Yes [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:39:45 ... in that gap.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:39:46 Right? Every version.

Jay Shetty 1:39:48 Every version that you-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:39:49 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:39:49 ... tried to fit in that gap. You're just showing us the reality of what that comes with.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:39:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:39:54 Like, the pain that comes with trying to fit everything into that gap, and I appreciate you for doing that because it's, it's hard to not turn every story into a fairy tale ending or a-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:40:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:40:07 ... perfect ending, and, and there isn't that here, and I think that that's what truly makes it relatable. It's what truly makes it applicable

Jay Shetty 1:40:16 wherever we are on our journeys on that spectrum and anyone else's. And it's why I said that I, I really hope that anyone who's on that journey themselves will pick this book up and be able to notice which gap they're trying to fill it with-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:40:32 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:40:32 ... and come back in, if that sounds, if that feels right, if that resonates.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:40:36 That's really right. It's like, 'cause you're right. It's like all these, it's like, "Okay, that didn't work. Let me go over here. Let me try this," da-da-da, and then it just, nope. You got to, you gotta heal you, and you gotta really get with a power higher than yourself. And I wanna thank you for really being so helpful in so many ways, Jay, in regards to, you talk about... I mean, we've been on such a beautiful journey together in that way of just learning and deepening our relationship with God individually, together. Um, I so appreciate you for that. I mean, you have been so instrumental in that way.

Jay Shetty 1:41:26 I genuinely can't take any credit. Like, I'm not even, I'm not even-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:41:29 Well, you can

Jay Shetty 1:41:30 ... and that's not, and that's not even me being-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:41:31 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:41:31 ... that's not me being humble or modest. It's, it's me just saying that in the same way as you feel people came into your life to, you know, accelerate that journey and reconnect you, like, you did the same for me and Radi, like. In a, in a physical way, you, all of you have given us so much family. We've celebrated so many Thanksgivings together.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:41:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:41:50 We've, we've had you over for Sanga every, you know, for days and days-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:41:55 Many

Jay Shetty 1:41:55 ... and weeks and months and years, and, you know, you've given us so much, and I, I don't... I think that's what I think this book does. I think that's what we'll do for our friendships, is that I got the opportunity to build a friendship with you that was based on nothing else but healing, growth, and the divine, and that kind of relationship just has a different energy. Like, it's-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:42:21 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:42:21 ... it's really special when there's nothing else. There's nothing else that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:42:25 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:42:25 ... would have made our paths cross.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:42:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:42:28 We don't work together. We don't have, we don't do business together. We don't have the same friends. Like, you know, but-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:42:35 But

Jay Shetty 1:42:35 ... but this.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:42:35 This. [laughs] Right?

Jay Shetty 1:42:38 I'm so grateful to watch someone do the hardest work, and I'm going, "Yeah, I need to do it, too." [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:42:46 Oh, no.

Jay Shetty 1:42:46 You know? And like, and I admire it because I see it from that perspective with you, and I always have, that you're not trying to take the easy way out. You're not, you're not just looking to fix it with a Band-Aid. You're not just hoping it will go away. You're like, "No, I'm gonna sit there with it," and that is just... I just, that is such an uncomfortable place naturally for 99% of people.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:43:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:43:12 I'm in awe of you because of it, and I always will be, and I'm just, I'm, I'm so happy that you decided to put it into writing because this isn't about clarifying. It isn't about people getting a sense of what really happened. That's not what it's about. It's about how can we sit through that discomfort that we're going through in our life and, and choose healing and growth even when it's the hardest thing and the farthest thing away from us.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:43:40 Listen, if things get cleared up from reading this book, great, but that's not the purpose, 'cause I, I actually don't think you can.

Jay Shetty 1:43:47 You can't. Yeah. Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:43:48 Yeah, you, you can't. It'll just be more stirring up whatever, other things, right? Um, and it's really, which is why it's even more important to really be able to have a strong sense of self, right? And not to be looking for external things-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:44:07 To be, to substitute what you have to have inside in order to know your place in this world. This place is crazy.

Jay Shetty 1:44:19 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:44:20 And to try to make the material space, the material world align in a way for your comfort, that's ... It can't start there. It has to start within yourself-

Jay Shetty 1:44:31 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:44:31 ... that how you see and what you attract to you is in alignment with what is happening here, right? But looking for the world to buoy you up or accept you in a certain manner, nah.

Jay Shetty 1:44:46 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:44:47 Like I said before, this can just give some little breadcrumbs to help people get to a sense of self-worth that gives them that comfort, no matter what is happening. You know, if you've brought freaking chocolate chip cookies with peanuts in them [laughs] to the school fair, [laughs] even though kids may have allergies and the school done wrote you a letter and said-

Jay Shetty 1:45:11 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:11 ... "Don't bring products with peanuts."

Jay Shetty 1:45:14 And you made them with love. Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:15 And you, right, you made them with love.

Jay Shetty 1:45:18 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:18 And now the mom group is on your neck. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:45:22 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:23 You can be okay. You can be okay with your victories, and you can be okay with the inevitable challenges that life is going to deliver.

Jay Shetty 1:45:36 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:36 It's okay either way. You're okay. You're worthy. You're lovable, peanuts and all.

Jay Shetty 1:45:47 So Jada, one of the things that you mentioned was that you went to the Oscars as family-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:53 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:45:53 ... but not as a wife.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:45:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:45:56 And I wanted to ask you, how do you define the status of your relationship now, and what is it like?

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:46:05 You know, right now, of course, we've had... It's been an intense two years, and we've really been doing some deep healing together, and that's why I was saying before the idea of how just really disruptive situations can amplify love in a certain manner because it kind of forces you to have to dive a little deeper. That's what we've been doing. We've just been growing together, and see what happens then. See what grows from there, you know? But like I said in the book, it's like we have this beautiful friendship, and we really look at our marriage as being the cornerstone of family. We're both kind of coming up with different definitions of what marriage means for us. We're still figuring all of that out.

Jay Shetty 1:47:06 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:47:07 Yeah, but the beautiful part is that there's been some really deep healing going on. Yeah. [laughs] I mean, you know? That, I mean, at the end of the day, that's what it's about. Marriage is so much about growth, like really learning how to grow emotionally, like emotional maturity, spiritual maturity, and there's this spiritual bond there. I mean, we've tried our best to get away from each other. I mean, I mean, our best, and we just don't want to.

Jay Shetty 1:47:45 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:47:45 So we are defining it the way that works for us, and I think getting comfortable with not being concerned about what anybody else thinks about it.

Jay Shetty 1:48:01 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:02 We have this life partnership, and every day we're trying to figure

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:08 out what that means.

Jay Shetty 1:48:09 Mm. You've both talked about how you feel like you're a mirror for each other.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:14 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:48:14 And when I've spoken to Will as well, it's like he feels like you're the person who knows him to his core.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:20 Absolutely. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:48:21 And he know-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:21 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:48:21 ... and he knows you to your core. Like, you know everything-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:26 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:48:26 ... that potentially there is to know about each other.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:28 Everything.

Jay Shetty 1:48:28 And you're obviously still learning.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:48:31 What's really interesting about that is some people would say, "Well, why not just get divorced?"

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:34 Yeah. Everybody's always like-

Jay Shetty 1:48:36 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:36 ... "Why don't you just get divorced?"

Jay Shetty 1:48:38 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:48:38 And it's like, mm, that's like quitting. I don't think there's any person that could embrace the best and the worst of me and be able, be willing to hold space in the way that Will holds space for me and the way that I hold space for him. And I know that most people probably go into their relationship as like, "You are here to please me" And yeah, our relationship isn't quite that. [laughs] You know, it's like, it's more about there's no greater mirror I could have than Will. He doesn't... I can't, I can't get around myself, just like he can't get around himself with me, and I think that that's just been what this has been all about. Like, it's been a deep clearing, like really having to look at yourself in ways in that mirror that, sure, we talk about this all the time. Would it be easier to go and find somebody else and have a more pleasing, more comfortable relationship? Maybe, but would that get me to the person that I really wanna be?

Jay Shetty 1:49:53 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:49:54 I don't think so, and I'm not saying that everybody's relationship is supposed to be that. I'm not here to say that. I'm just saying that that's what my relationship is.

Jay Shetty 1:50:03 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:50:03 That's something I desire, to get to a A deeper part, a more spiritually sound, emotionally sound, and really understand love unconditionally. And the thing that I've learned about unconditional love, you can't really understand what unconditional love in ideal circumstances [laughs] is.

Jay Shetty 1:50:32 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:50:32 To really get to

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:50:35 what it is to love yourself and someone else completely-

Jay Shetty 1:50:42 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:50:43 ... with all that's divine, all that's human, all that's perfect, and all that is deeply flawed-

Jay Shetty 1:50:52 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:50:52 ... and have full acceptance for it all, I tell you, this is [laughs] ... You know, marriage is not for the faint at heart.

Jay Shetty 1:51:01 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:51:01 It's just not.

Jay Shetty 1:51:02 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:51:03 And it is definitely, I believe, I believe, you know, different people get married for different reasons, so I'm not trying to say why anybody else should be married. But for me, the holy path of getting to a divine aspect of myself-

Jay Shetty 1:51:19 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:51:19 ... in partnership with Will, and it seems like Will wants the same for himself. And it's taken us, you know, I mean, we got together at what? I was 23. Okay? 23 when I first decided to commit myself-

Jay Shetty 1:51:38 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:51:38 ... to Willard Carroll Smith. Lord Jesus. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:51:45 [laughs] So young.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:51:47 So young. We were babies, babies trying to figure this out. And you know what's interesting about young relationships? You create these young patterns that get so, like, these really young, immature patterns-

Jay Shetty 1:52:00 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:00 ... in yourself and how you relate to your partner, and then you create these dynamics between one another that it takes a while-

Jay Shetty 1:52:11 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:11 ... to, like, really be willing to look at that stuff and dissolve it and let it go and mature and grow.

Jay Shetty 1:52:18 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:18 It takes some real, like, self-inventory, patience, courage.

Jay Shetty 1:52:26 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:27 Right? Because you're breaking down everything.

Jay Shetty 1:52:31 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:32 All your romantic ideas, everything you thought, you know, relationship or marriage.

Jay Shetty 1:52:38 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:38 All your romantic fantasies, [laughs] you know? Just psh, you know, blow up in flames, but it's really been freeing.

Jay Shetty 1:52:49 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:50 It's really been freeing to see what's more true.

Jay Shetty 1:52:56 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:56 Right? I'm not saying that I know the truth yet.

Jay Shetty 1:52:59 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:52:59 I just feel like I'm seeing more of what's true-

Jay Shetty 1:53:02 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:53:03 ... you know, as regards to what love and partnership is about.

Jay Shetty 1:53:08 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:53:08 'Cause I was definitely one of those people that's like, "You're here to make me happy, and when you don't do it, that's a problem."

Jay Shetty 1:53:16 And that, and that's a normal setup. That's how we believe relationships are, and, you know, I've talked about it before, and I, I put it forward in my book, this idea that we think pleasure is the ultimate gift of a relationship. But really, purification is, and that's a really tough idea for anyone, including me.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:53:37 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:53:37 I, like, I haven't perfected that idea, for me to wrap my head around. And I can honestly say that I love Radhi, and, you, you know, you've seen us both together and everything. But the greatest gift Radhi gives me is a mirror and a purification of, Radhi can call out my ego-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:53:55 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:53:55 ... better than anyone or anything, and I know it's coming from a good place.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:53:59 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:53:59 Uh, Radhi can show me my flaws in the nicest, most supportive way possible and can receive it back from me.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:54:06 And then I feel like because of her, I'm trying to be better, getting better, not for her-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:13 That's right

Jay Shetty 1:54:14 ... for myself.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:15 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:54:16 It's almost like the person that you live with knows you so deeply, or the person that you've seen, has seen you in all circumstances-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:23 All. [laughs] Yes

Jay Shetty 1:54:23 ... in all situations, knows you the deepest. I always say, Radhi knows whether I woke up and meditated in the morning.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:54:29 Like, Radhi knows whether I got angry or frustrated at night after a phone call. Like, Radhi knows that, and if I use that to my advantage of, am I becoming, am I growing? But it's such a hard concept for people to understand because it's, it's so counterintuitive to the pleasure-seeking mind that we've been conditioned to chase. And again, I'm not saying we shouldn't have pleasure in relationships.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:53 Oh, absolutely.

Jay Shetty 1:54:54 That's, that's not the point I'm making. I'm just saying that there's more to it. There's another level.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:54:58 There's definitely more to it, and I think we've talked about this before, you and I, as far as people believing that romantic love is the highest form.

Jay Shetty 1:55:08 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:55:08 Now, I believe that romantic love is an aspect, right, of a higher form. But it c- I don't believe that romantic sel- romantic love itself is the highest form, right?

Jay Shetty 1:55:25 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:55:25 I believe within the highest form, you can have romantic love, but that romantic love is not of the highest.

Jay Shetty 1:55:32 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:55:32 Right? And that's all I've been examining and exploring with Will.

Jay Shetty 1:55:40 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:55:41 And really trying to understand the power of unconditional love, friendship. Like, there's something about friendship, familial love, that is beautiful, but when two people can have an agreement around divine love, like love of a source greater than yourself-

Jay Shetty 1:56:12 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:56:13 That you wanna be connected to, and then you decide that your relationship is gonna be connected to that same source-

Jay Shetty 1:56:20 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:56:23 ... oh, boy, now we're onto something.

Jay Shetty 1:56:25 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:56:26 Now we're onto something. But to think that romantic love can hold all of the difficulties and challenges alone, and I think that's why so many of us get into these power struggles and why there's so many divorces and why there, you know, just all of this strife in relationships. You brought up something that was really important, and it's the idea of Roddy when she can kind of pull your coattails with love, and I think that's... It takes a lot of work to figure that out, like, to not be offended when someone sh- shows up imperfectly, and that, those are those kind of pieces, um, within relationship. Like, we feel like people are supposed to come ready-made. You walk down the aisle, and it's like, "Psh, he knows how to love me,

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:57:25 you know?"

Jay Shetty 1:57:25 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:57:25 "I know how to love him," you know? And not making room for that space of growth, that is inevitable. People are gonna mess up. People are gonna do stupid stuff. People are gonna say stupid stuff. Now, when it comes to abuse and all of that, that's a different story.

Jay Shetty 1:57:43 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:57:44 Right? But people who are willing to learn how to love each other.

Jay Shetty 1:57:50 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:57:51 'Cause I really do think that's what committed relationships about, marriage or not. I'm committed to learning how to love myself, learning how to love you, right? And then learning how to cultivate this relationship that we have-

Jay Shetty 1:58:08 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:58:08 ... with that essence, with those components. Then that's a beautiful thing.

Jay Shetty 1:58:16 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:58:17 That's what I believe the holy path of relating is all about, and not everybody wants that.

Jay Shetty 1:58:24 Yeah, yeah, totally.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:58:25 You know? Some people really just want the romantic version of it, and that's okay, too.

Jay Shetty 1:58:30 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:58:31 That's okay, too, you know? But, um, for me, definitely on that path of looking for something deeper within myself mostly. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:58:44 Yeah. How did you let go of that desire for romantic love but then hold onto the friendship? Because I feel like that's a journey that is so hard, whether someone stays married or gets divorced or like, like you both are. You described yourself as best friends.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:59:02 How did you hold onto friendship, being able to let go of the mirage that you had earlier, or even not even the mirage, the reality of what you had earlier, as you talk about in the book?

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:59:13 You know, the chemistry, the spark. I think-

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59:15 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:59:15 ... so many of us are trying to hold onto that, but you've let go of that, and then you're saying, "But we've held onto the friendship, the, the mirror, the work, the growth." That sounds like the hard way through it.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59:26 I think it's how people show up, and people don't always show up perfect.

Jay Shetty 1:59:32 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59:32 Clearly. But one thing about Will and I, we're just not willing to give up.

Jay Shetty 1:59:40 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 1:59:40 It's like I'm lucky that we just want to have each other in, in one another's life, right? You have moments of disharmony, but if you know that you're not willing to not have that person in your life, you know you gotta put forth the effort-

Jay Shetty 2:00:01 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:00:01 ... and you gotta put forth the work-

Jay Shetty 2:00:03 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:00:04 ... to transform whatever's not working. So we always make the decision to take that one step closer to diving more deeply, to learning how to love.

Jay Shetty 2:00:19 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:00:20 And most of the time, it has more to do with self-inventory, having to go in the corner [laughs] and look at one's self and then come back and go, "I was tripping."

Jay Shetty 2:00:36 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:00:37 Whether it's I'm sorry, or I had a misunderstanding, can we look at this now together? Because now I've looked at it in my corner alone, and I've seen my part. And I wanna talk to you first about my part.

Jay Shetty 2:00:53 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:00:56 A, B, C, and D, right? And then inevitably, usually, your partner will go, "Well, you know-"

Jay Shetty 2:01:03 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:03 "... I coulda done such and such and such and such." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:01:07 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:07 And so when you have an agreement that's really unspoken of, like, I want you in

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:13 my life-

Jay Shetty 2:01:13 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:13 ... and I wanna have good times with you-

Jay Shetty 2:01:16 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:17 ... and I love you, then that's the energy that nurtures-

Jay Shetty 2:01:23 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:23 ... and keeps one willing to just keep working at it.

Jay Shetty 2:01:30 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:31 So there's that deep love, and the great thing is that Will's got a great sense of humor. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:01:36 [laughs] Yeah, great one.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:38 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 2:01:38 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:38 He's got a really good sense of humor.

Jay Shetty 2:01:41 The best, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:41 So he has a way of being able to help me get out of my funk.

Jay Shetty 2:01:45 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:46 But I'm kinda like, you talk about this a lot with Roddy, where I kinda have to take my time.

Jay Shetty 2:01:50 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:01:50 Like, I'm not always ready to talk right away. I need, I need to, like, sit. I need to be with myself. I need to kind of, like, work through my thoughts and all of that, where Will is always ready to talk.

Jay Shetty 2:02:00 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:01 I like to go deep. He likes to get funny. The great thing about him, he can go deep.

Jay Shetty 2:02:06 Totally, absolutely.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:07 And there are times that I really like to play and have fun.

Jay Shetty 2:02:11 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:11 So we, we're like these energetic fields. You know, I'm earth, and he's sky. You know, we're, we are your typical-

Jay Shetty 2:02:19 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:19 [laughs] yin and yang.

Jay Shetty 2:02:21 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:21 [laughs] You know? That, you know, there, there's this great chemistry there between us that just works. And but when it doesn't work, oh man.

Jay Shetty 2:02:33 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:34 Oh, man.

Jay Shetty 2:02:34 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:35 Oh, man. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:02:37 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:38 You know what I mean? Those moments-

Jay Shetty 2:02:40 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:40 ... where it's just like, ah. But I think that's just inevitable in every relationship-

Jay Shetty 2:02:45 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:45 ... you know? And-

Jay Shetty 2:02:45 Agree, yeah. But it just doesn't look traditional. I think that's the point. That's, that's the part where it's like it just doesn't look traditional. It works-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:52 Oh, yes

Jay Shetty 2:02:52 ... because there's the trust, there's commitment-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 2:02:54 ... there's, there's understanding, and at the same time, it doesn't look-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:02:59 It doesn't look traditional

Jay Shetty 2:03:00 ... how you think it would look.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:01 I don't know. I'm be honest with you. There are aspects of traditional relating that absolutely work.

Jay Shetty 2:03:08 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:10 But I think in this day and age, I don't know too many marriages-

Jay Shetty 2:03:15 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:15 ... that are traditional.

Jay Shetty 2:03:17 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:18 I really don't.

Jay Shetty 2:03:19 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:20 Everybody is trying to figure it out.

Jay Shetty 2:03:22 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:23 Right? And I think everybody's so scared to talk about all of the different ways that they're, that they're trying to figure it out.

Jay Shetty 2:03:32 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:33 I know so many people who are, like, married but not living together.

Jay Shetty 2:03:38 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:39 Married but have decided to have other partners.

Jay Shetty 2:03:42 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:42 I know so many people, and have for a long time, that are trying marriage in so many different forms.

Jay Shetty 2:03:52 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:54 And my whole thing is figure it out for you.

Jay Shetty 2:03:58 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:03:59 Marriage is not a cookie cut out, like, uh, formula. Besides, I do think that there's some staples. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:04:08 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:04:09 You know? Love. But even that.

Jay Shetty 2:04:12 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:04:13 Let me take that out for a second.

Jay Shetty 2:04:14 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:04:14 There's some people who are married strictly for business purposes.

Jay Shetty 2:04:18 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:04:19 I've seen that, too. As long as there's agreement between two people in how they decide they wanna be together, stay out of it. It has nothing to do... I tell people all the time, "Don't look at my marriage as being contagious."

Jay Shetty 2:04:33 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:04:33 Whatever I'm doing doesn't mean you gotta be doing that.

Jay Shetty 2:04:36 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:04:37 You gotta be doing the thing that works for you, and I feel like every partnership, two people have the right to figure that out for them.

Jay Shetty 2:04:47 And it's so different in norms in different cultures and different backgrounds. I mean, like, for me and Radhi, we spend a lot of time apart because she likes to be back with her family in London, and I travel for work. And so we discovered and agreed very early on in our relationship that when I work, she would often visit her family back in London, and she loves it, and she's wants to be with her mom and dad and her niece and nephew and her sister and brother-in-law and everyone. And I love my purpose, and I wanna be traveling. I wanna be working. I wanna be moving. And I remember so many times in our relationship, people would be like, "Is everything okay?"

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:05:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:05:21 Like, and then we'd go back to London and people would be like, "Why is your wife not with you?" Or people are like, "Why is J not with you?" And everyone starts thinking

Jay Shetty 2:05:29 that there may be something going on. And it's actually, well, no, this was our agreement. This is something we've sat and talked about and figured things out. And actually, we love distance 'cause we get excited to see each other again. It's refreshing. It works for us. And again, it may not work for anyone else. Someone may say, "I need my partner by my side every day." Fair enough.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:05:48 Right.

Jay Shetty 2:05:48 And someone may say, "I want to travel more than you do or less." But we just found that having honest conversations between us and knowing why we were making certain decisions, even though they were abnormal to our community-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:06:02 Right

Jay Shetty 2:06:02 ... the community that we grew up in-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:06:04 Right

Jay Shetty 2:06:04 ... where the way we live is very abnormal, even though it's just about time apart, the point was we had an agreement that worked for us. And I think getting to know you both, I, I can honestly say that I feel like you guys are both always honest and communicative with each other on what your agreements are.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:06:20 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 2:06:21 And that's what we have been discussing today as well, that, you know, there's, there's always been that, that openness to do that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:06:29 Oh, yeah. Well, I talk about it a lot in the book.

Jay Shetty 2:06:31 Absolutely.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:06:32 And I think that a lot of people had a lot of misunderstanding, as that we talked about earlier, I believe, in regards to open relationship and being able to be with whoever you want. No, that, that's not what was happening. And I think a lot of times that people just didn't know that we had agreed to not be together-

Jay Shetty 2:06:53 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:06:53 ... as we were trying to figure out, are we gonna be separated? Are we gonna be divorced? Then we would reconcile, and then we would break up again.

Jay Shetty 2:07:01 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:07:01 And it's all this back and forth between us that we didn't share with the world a lot.

Jay Shetty 2:07:06 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:07:07 You know? And I think now people are just gonna have to be okay with our marriage is not traditional in the sense of here we are married but not. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:07:23 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:07:23 You know what I mean? And, you know, as I'm on my path and Will's figuring his thing out, we've decided to hold space for each other.

Jay Shetty 2:07:35 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:07:37 And as we're trying to figure out who we are-

Jay Shetty 2:07:39 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:07:39 ... Will's lived a lot of his life for other people. I've definitely lived my life a lot for other people and really having this time for me. I need this. What I've been able to discover about myself in the last five years, six years I think now, I've needed this time to really concentrate on me-

Jay Shetty 2:08:02 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:08:02 ... and really developing, like, a relationship with myself. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:08:08 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:08:08 And I feel like the better relationship I have with myself, the better relationship I have with everyone else in my life, including Will. And so I talk about that a lot in the book, you know, just a lot of the misunderstandings that have occurred Rightfully so, 'cause it's been a lot of mixed messaging, and then people are like, "Well, you know, you guys have been on the red car-," you know, and all of that. "We see you. We never knew there was a breakup." You weren't supposed to. That was between us.

Jay Shetty 2:08:35 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:08:36 And at the end of the day, we're always family.

Jay Shetty 2:08:40 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:08:41 No matter what. So I think that the way we are deciding to be in a union, people just gonna have to get with that it's probably not gonna look like-

Jay Shetty 2:08:54 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:08:55 ... what someone else is doing.

Jay Shetty 2:08:57 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:08:58 And that's just the truth of the matter.

Jay Shetty 2:08:59 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:00 You know? And we're good with that.

Jay Shetty 2:09:02 I can definitely say that whatever relationship anyone is in, that we all get to a point in our relationships, romantic or otherwise, where growing together becomes the greatest priority.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:14 Yes.

Jay Shetty 2:09:14 It doesn't matter w- how we got there or-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:16 Yeah, how we got there

Jay Shetty 2:09:17 ... or, or what-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:17 What's happening or-

Jay Shetty 2:09:18 Yeah, it's-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:18 Mm-mm, yeah

Jay Shetty 2:09:19 ... it's just that I think that is the key. I was saying to that when I was writing my book, Eight Rules of Love, it was like the journey I went on through writing it got me to that point of recognizing that, yes, the goal of every relationship in my life is simply to teach me something I have been unwilling to learn. And the people that I'm closest to-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:41 [laughs] Come on, Jay

Jay Shetty 2:09:43 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:43 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:09:43 The people that I'm closest to-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:45 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 2:09:46 ... are the only ones that can push me-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:49 That's right

Jay Shetty 2:09:50 ... or pull me to seeing that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:09:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:09:52 Whether it's your mom, whether it's your dad, whether it's your sister, brother, partner, whatever it may be. And for me, I also discovered through the writing of the book that the greatest love story, and I really, really believe this, when I was writing it, I was like, the greatest love stories in the world are actually not romantic. The greatest love stories in the world are generally humans sacrificing themself in the service of others. Like, you see people take on great sacrifice to help people that they may not even meet.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:10:24 Right.

Jay Shetty 2:10:24 Or you see people, like, taking on a mission or a movement that-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:10:28 Hmm

Jay Shetty 2:10:28 ... positively affects so many people that they were never even connected to. Like, those are the greatest acts of love, or the act of love that a parent has for their child, that they extend themselves and express in their unconditionality. You don't really see romantic love being unconditional, generally.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:10:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:10:44 It's interesting that trying to practice and understand what unconditional love is and figuring it out, which we all are, including me, but that journey was really powerful for me to recognize that the more unwilling I become and the more h- I hide from the lessons that I'm meant to learn, the harder it gets and the harder the lesson gets and the test gets, and it just gets bigger and worse. So-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:11:07 It gets bigger. And you know, the truth of the matter is, is like, I'm always gonna be by Will's side. You know, when I think about, like, if something ever happened to him, it's like, I'ma be right there. If he needs me, I'ma be right there, always. That's just an unbreakable fact. That's the bond we have.

Jay Shetty 2:11:31 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:11:31 You know, we've tried to break it w- in every which way you can think of.

Jay Shetty 2:11:38 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:11:39 We don't want to be in this lifetime without one another. It's just not gonna happen. So we're trying to figure out [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:11:52 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:11:52 ... what that looks like for us. And th- there's something really powerful about that. I gotta be honest, as difficult as it's been, as there's been times that I've hated that fact, having somebody that forces me to have to raise my consciousness, evolve my understanding of love, to deal with the fact of that bond, that's a God-given gift.

Jay Shetty 2:12:21 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:12:21 Because me and God gotta get with that. God c- has to be my mentor on how to love Will and myself and care for the relationship that we have through the eyes of the great Supreme, not the way Jada wants it. And so that has been a beautiful surrender-

Jay Shetty 2:12:47 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:12:47 ... that I've really have had to surrender. 'Cause I really feel like it's by the decree. [laughs] God was like, "Oh no, in this lifetime, that's your person. Like it or not, I don't care."

Jay Shetty 2:13:00 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:02 So it set me up to have to break certain ideas of my own personality and my own ego, and really surrender to what the great Supreme wants to teach me-

Jay Shetty 2:13:16 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:17 ... about love and about patience-

Jay Shetty 2:13:21 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:21 ... and about care, kindness, consideration, forgiveness of myself, forgiveness of others. It's deep.

Jay Shetty 2:13:29 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:29 And I'm so grateful. It's been a painful journey, no doubt, but the gifts that I get on the other side of that discomfort, and when I get on the other side of the discomfort, I go, "I get it."

Jay Shetty 2:13:44 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:44 "I could

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:45 not have gotten that gift [laughs] or that understanding-

Jay Shetty 2:13:50 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:50 ... without that trial you gave me."

Jay Shetty 2:13:54 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:55 I just ask God these days, "Can you make it a little easier?"

Jay Shetty 2:13:57 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:13:57 I think, I think I'm getting the groove of things.

Jay Shetty 2:13:59 Oh, gosh.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:00 You know what I mean? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:14:01 Me too. Me too.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:01 I'm just like, come on, you know?

Jay Shetty 2:14:03 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:04 But I've also realized too that I'm getting to the point that when things, tumultuous things-

Jay Shetty 2:14:13 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:13 ... come about-

Jay Shetty 2:14:14 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:14 ... I smile and I go, "Okay, you got a great one for me on the other side of this bad boy." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:14:21 Oh.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:21 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 2:14:22 Yeah, yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:22 You just start to realize it, it's never failed in that way.

Jay Shetty 2:14:25 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:27 I remember asking Swami, I said, "Do you think I should get divorced?"

Jay Shetty 2:14:31 Hmm. Wow, I didn't know you asked him that.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:33 I sure did. I asked Swami, and he said, "You know, Jada, people take their vows very lightly these days." And he said something to the effect that, you know, when we stay committed to the vows that we make, we find what we need.

Jay Shetty 2:14:56 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:14:58 And I was like, "Okay," and I, I just-

Jay Shetty 2:15:00 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:15:00 ... stayed on track. I was just like, "All right. Let me, let me just keep digging. Let me keep going." And he, you know, he's right for my journey.

Jay Shetty 2:15:11 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:15:12 Can't say for anybody else. For my journey. 'Cause he said... Oh, this is what he said. He said [laughs] people end up as friends in the long run, and they're f- holding hands, walking each other home. And that's how I feel. I feel like Will and I are walking each other home as life partners.

Jay Shetty 2:15:32 Well, Jada, I wanna share one last thing with you if I can. So earlier, I had a letter for you from Willow.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:15:41 Okay.

Jay Shetty 2:15:42 And I also have a letter from Will. I may need your help with... You may have to reenact some words because I feel like you'll be able to channel-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:15:55 Okay

Jay Shetty 2:15:55 ... Will better than me. I will not try and impersonate him because it won't go well. But this was for you, Jada. I think it was when Will found out that you were coming on the show, and-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:03 Right

Jay Shetty 2:16:03 ... I, I was happy that he was able to send this to me, and so I could share it with you. And I'll just read it, and, uh, let's, let's do it in his words.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:10 Okay.

Jay Shetty 2:16:10 So you'll have to explain this one for us. I know, but I want the audience to know. So he said, "Congrats, Dink."

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:15 [laughs] Okay, so let me just tell you what dink is.

Jay Shetty 2:16:21 Yeah, just tell us that before-

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:22 Yeah. Let me-

Jay Shetty 2:16:22 Before, yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:23 ... let me tell you what dink means.

Jay Shetty 2:16:24 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:24 Oh, he's so crazy. So when we play golf, he's my favorite person to play golf with. So when we play golf, when I hit my driver, it goes, "Dink." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:16:39 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:40 And so that's why he calls me Dink.

Jay Shetty 2:16:42 Who, who's better at golf?

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:44 He's definitely better.

Jay Shetty 2:16:45 Okay.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:45 But I'm, I'm getting to a point where I can, you know-

Jay Shetty 2:16:48 Right

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:16:48 ... I can challenge him in a good way on a couple of holes, for sure.

Jay Shetty 2:16:51 All right. Okay. "Congrats, Dink. I just turned the final page of Worthy, and damn" ... Can I get you to do the damn? How would he say it?

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:17:02 Damn. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:17:04 [laughs] "I just turned the final page of Worthy, and damn. It is amazing to realize that despite having lived most of my life by your side, I still found myself shocked and stunned and caught off guard, laughing, then inspired, then heartbroken. I was all over the place. It's one thing to hear anecdotes at a family barbecue, but it was truly overwhelming to take in your story potently condensed in this way. You are one of one, a rare blend of power and delicate sensitivity. I know it wasn't easy to excavate the depths in that way. I applaud and honor you. If I had read this book 30 years ago, I definitely

Jay Shetty 2:18:08 would have hugged you more. I'll start now. Welcome to the Authors Club. I love you endlessly. Now go get some merlot and take a rest."

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:18:21 [laughs] He know I can't have no merlot. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:18:27 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:18:28 That's beautiful. And that's why I can't divorce that joker. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:18:36 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:18:37 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:18:38 There's one line that really hit me.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:18:40 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:18:41 And I wanna hear obviously how you felt, but he said, "If I had read this book 30 years ago, I definitely would have hugged you more. I'll start now." How, how did it feel listening to parts of that?

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:18:56 You know, one of the things I talk about in the book a lot is perspective. When we got married, Will had to be 28, 29. We had such different needs. No right or wrong. You know? Will was very driven, but I got married because I was pregnant, and I wanted a family. And that, I must say, that was the one thing. We both wanted to create a family we never had, but what we thought took having a healthy family, Will believed, "Man, as long as I get out here, make money, get the biggest house, make sure you guys don't need anything, that's how you have a great family." And my thing was like, "No, but love and, you know, me and you, we gotta da, da, da, da, da." You know, everything was centered around feelings, love, and da, da, da, da. We just couldn't find agreement-

Jay Shetty 2:20:00 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:20:00 ... because we thought we had two different goals around what it took. And so to hear him say that he would have hugged me more is me hearing him say he would have taken a bit more time to listen and understand. And that doesn't mean that- He would have to be off his path, but just to take a little bit more time to listen and understand. And I think when we were young, 'cause I was the same way. I mean, when we were young, you just think your way is the only way.

Jay Shetty 2:20:43 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:20:44 And I think that where Will and I are getting to now is understanding that our ways, my way is just one way. His way is just one way, and then how do we listen to, uh, each other more to blend those ways? I was very careful in not going into romanticized regret after hearing that line, "I wish I could have hugged you more,

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:21:15 but I will do so now," right? I was like, "No, no, no, you're not gonna go into romanticized regret."

Jay Shetty 2:21:21 Wow.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:21:22 Because what I know as a fact is that every step, everything that has transpired between us has been absolutely perfect.

Jay Shetty 2:21:36 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:21:37 All the beauty and all the ugly to get us to a place that we're, that we're coming to. You know? And you could s- you could go, "Oh, I wish that, you know, I had known this when I was younger." That's the whole point of youth. You don't know. [laughs] You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 2:21:56 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:21:57 And then to really just to be able to embrace, like, this time in my life and in his life and coming into newfound wisdom and enjoy that, but I'm so glad that getting closer to that blend [laughs] between us, and that's what I'm saying is, like, who else am I gonna grow with like that?

Jay Shetty 2:22:22 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:22:23 And be able to have those, that deep cherished moment of, like, when you can look back at where you were 30 years ago and where we've traveled-

Jay Shetty 2:22:34 Mm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:22:34 ... to get to this moment right here, right now of this beautiful family. Without him, I wouldn't have had Jaden, Willow, Trey. Oh my gosh. There are no greater treasures than those three, and then all of the magnificent experiences he and I have had together. The great ones and the not so great ones, you know?

Jay Shetty 2:23:02 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:02 But they're ours, part of our tapestry.

Jay Shetty 2:23:06 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:07 One thing I talk about in the book, going to see Ruby Dee when I needed some marital advice, and she told me, "Laugh now because you're gonna laugh later."

Jay Shetty 2:23:17 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:19 And it's so true. I didn't know what she was talking about then.

Jay Shetty 2:23:21 [laughs]

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:22 But she'd been married at that time for 50-some years. Ozzie was gone. Ozzie Davis had passed on, you know? And one of the things she said to me, I said, "What's one of your biggest regrets?" And she said, "I wished I had laughed with him more."

Jay Shetty 2:23:38 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:39 And that never leaves my mind.

Jay Shetty 2:23:42 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:42 To just find ways to get through the bumpies, to get through the bumpy stuff, and let's get back to some laughter. [laughs] And some joy.

Jay Shetty 2:23:51 Jada, I'm gonna give this to you.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:23:54 In case you wanna, in case you wanna read it again.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:23:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:23:57 Uh, and I wanna thank you for, you know, your vulnerability, your openness today, and the vulnerability in the book that you shared so profoundly today, but the book, you get to weave the tapestry together and the lessons and where they come in your life, and I really, I really believe that anyone who will re- read this book will gain access to a much deeper understanding of themselves as a mirror and also get an opportunity to reframe, rethink, renew ideas, perspective, thoughts about their own journey.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:24:44 That is all that I want. Like, we have so much fear around allowing people their journeys because we can tend to get hurt within them along the way, but it's inevitable, and the more that we can have acceptance for the reality that life is a journey. Nobody is meant to be perfect.

Jay Shetty 2:25:08 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:25:08 It baffles me. Well, actually, let me take that back. It doesn't baffle me 'cause I've been there. [laughs] It doesn't baffle me.

Jay Shetty 2:25:17 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:25:18 I've been there, where just being afraid to allow what is to be, and that is embracing our humanness.

Jay Shetty 2:25:27 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:25:28 And learning how to love each other through our humanness. All this cancel culture and all of this, that is purely a rejection of aspects of ourselves and a rejection of humanness.

Jay Shetty 2:25:44 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:25:46 And that's where unconditional love has its most power, right? But if we can learn to do that with us, starting with ourselves, right? Learning how to have unconditional love for ourselves and have acceptance for our journey, and that's what I want from this book. I'm just putting it out there, like, "Hey, this is what my journey looks like, and it ain't cute."

Jay Shetty 2:26:07 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:08 This is what I've learned along the way, and this is how I learned how to gain self-worth and to feel worthy about it all.

Jay Shetty 2:26:17 About it all.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:18 About it all, Jay.

Jay Shetty 2:26:20 Mm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:22 Every piece of it, and that's all I want for everybody else. It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to come down on yourself, and just because we stumble and we might lose our way- ... doesn't mean we're lost forever. Thank you, Charles Xavier from X-Men, for that statement. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:26:42 [laughs] I love X-Men.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:45 I do, too. Charles laid it out-

Jay Shetty 2:26:47 Yeah

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:47 ... just like that.

Jay Shetty 2:26:48 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:48 I had to put that quote in my book.

Jay Shetty 2:26:50 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:26:51 But it's true, and that's all I want for everybody. We are all worthy. Embracing it all, every aspect of our journey, that is the thing that makes us worthy.

Jay Shetty 2:27:03 We're harder on others because we're so hard on ourselves. We're hard on ourselves because we're so hard on others, and that cycle keeps repeating itself. Point out someone's flaw because we're pointing them out in ourselves, but not looking at the growth we're trying to make and the growth someone else trying to make, the healing journey that they're on and the healing journey that we're on. And as you were just saying that, what came to my mind was that we all have to take

Jay Shetty 2:27:27 the same steps, but on our own path. And I think what this book does so gracefully is show your steps, which reminds us all that even if we trip and we fall, which we inevitably will, there's still another step after that, that we can take. And that ultimate step is what you just so beautifully put, the step of recognizing that all of it was worthy. All of it was part of that journey towards self-worth.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:28:02 And that you're loved. You're loved, and you're held no matter what. Through all of the scrutiny and through all of the, I don't know, stones that were thrown at me, as painful as all of that was, what a beautiful gauntlet to get me to the understanding-

Jay Shetty 2:28:26 Mm-hmm

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:28:27 ... that it's only our self-judgment that's the true enemy. And I got to cure so much of my own self-judgment through all of that. It's almost like being like Wonder Woman, you know? Pew, pew, pew. [laughs] You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 2:28:43 Yeah.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:28:43 It's like the great Supreme makes it so that you're invincible to all the criticism, anything else anybody has to say about you. When you get that true sense of worthiness, doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, doesn't matter what other misunderstandings are happening.

Jay Shetty 2:29:07 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:29:07 And I want that for everybody.

Jay Shetty 2:29:09 Mm-hmm.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:29:10 It's a superpower, but it's not given without the trial. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Thank you. I'm so grateful. And thank you, Jay.

Jay Shetty 2:29:23 Thank you, Jay.

Jada Pinkett Smith 2:29:24 Yeah. Thank you, Jay. You've been so good to me through it all. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Jay Shetty 2:29:30 So grateful to you, too, as well, for letting me be a small part of the journey because it's one that you give me the bravery to tread myself, so thank you. If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking the power of manifestation.

2:29:48 Anybody who hasn't spoken to their parents or their brother, call them right now. Don't think you're gonna have a chance to call them tomorrow or next week. That opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life