Nessa Barrett ON How To Deal With Loneliness & Heal After A Breakup

Nessa Barrett 0:00 The word healthy to everyone is a great word. Everyone wants to be healthy, but for me, when someone says that I look healthy, it makes me want to spiral. The bestselling author and host-

Jay Shetty 0:11 The number one health and wellness podcast

Nessa Barrett 0:13 On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty 0:17 You said you actually ran away from home when you were 17.

Nessa Barrett 0:19 Yes.

Jay Shetty 0:20 What made you do that? Like, what did it take for that to happen?

Nessa Barrett 0:25 So I, I feel like I've always had, like, this big ambition and this big dream in my head of what I want to do as a career, you know? I always dreamt about being in California, dreamt about being a singer, you know, a huge artist, and that wasn't something that was understood or at least, you know, uh, seen as possible, uh, in the town that I came from and my family. And it was right as COVID hit, and I knew that I was either trapped and stuck there and forced to have to go to college and, you know, create a life that I knew wasn't for me, or I would just do it for myself and, you know, if I didn't leave then, then I wouldn't be there, like here, where I am now. And so it was really weird, but yeah, I wasn't happy at home. I wasn't happy in New Jersey. Um, and I felt in my heart that there was something that I had to do, and I booked a flight at, like, 1:00 AM that left for, like, 4:00 AM. My parents knew that I was gonna run away, and it was, like, this big chaos. They had, like, the cops come, and it was, like, this whole thing. Um, and so they stole and they took all of my suitcases, everything that I could use to leave. And so I found, uh, I locked my door, and I found, like, all of my old, like, school book bags and my soccer bags 'cause I used to play soccer, and I stuffed all of my things in, like, these duffel bags and, like, school bags, and I'm lugging around, like... And I'm small.

Jay Shetty 1:54 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 1:55 I'm, like, 17, like, four foot 11, like, lugging around these huge bags, and I got an Uber and, um, yeah, I got on the flight and, mm-hmm, I've been here since.

Jay Shetty 2:05 So that's been nearly four years now.

Nessa Barrett 2:07 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:07 That's insane. I mean, how did you as a 17-year-old have the confidence and courage to go, "No, I'm gonna go all in on this. I'm gonna..." Because that's... You know, I think a lot of young people today, a lot of people listening-

Nessa Barrett 2:21 Mm

Jay Shetty 2:21 ... they wanna take risks.

Nessa Barrett 2:22 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:23 They wanna try things out. They wanna follow their passion.

Nessa Barrett 2:25 Mm.

Jay Shetty 2:25 They wanna pursue something that's a dream of theirs. But I think most of us get talked out of it, or the doubt and the fear creeps in in our head of, "What if I don't make it? What if it doesn't work out?"

Nessa Barrett 2:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:35 What was it for you that allowed you to say, "No, I'm actually going to have the courage and the confidence" at 17?

Nessa Barrett 2:41 I still am not the type of person, and I never was, to take a risk like that. I struggle with really bad anxiety, and I, as a kid, like, I did everything that I was told. You know, I would never... I would follow the rules to a T, and something like that was absolutely insane. And looking back on it now, I feel like there was something out of this world that kind of took, like, a toll on me. Like, it was a pretty, like... I don't even know how to explain it, but I just knew that I had to. And I was scared. I was terrified. I remember I had, uh, there's no nonstop from Philly to, um, LA at that time, and so I stopped somewhere. And on, like, my connecting flight, I was freaking out, like, having a panic attack. But yeah, I just kept going. But it was, it was something that was very, like, unlike me, and so I feel like, I don't know if it's, like, my higher power, anything like that, and I just knew that I was, uh, that was something that I had to do, you know?

Jay Shetty 3:42 How did you have the money? Like, how did-

Nessa Barrett 3:43 Ah, thank God. So [laughs] I, uh, before I was in LA, I actually... This is, like, such a weird story, but I started off on social media. I feel like a lot of people, uh, know me as a social media person, even though that wasn't something that I intended to be. I have social anxiety, so I feel like me being a social media star isn't something that, you know, fits the most with me and something that I would ever wanna do. But when social media like Instagram and TikTok, uh, became popular apps when I was young, I never wanted to go on it. And I remember being in high school, like, during lunch, and a bunch of my friends had it, and they made me make an account and post a video. And I made one video, and I happened to accumulate a bunch of followers off of that without me even, you know, trying to be an influencer. I was just being a random teenage girl posting as if any other girl would on social media, and, um, I gained a lot of followers for that, and it was really cool, and it was awesome. And I had no money. Uh, no one in my family had money to just buy a flight whenever they wanted, let alone live in California or be able to get into, like, a music studio, you know? And so I honestly think I was truly blessed with that opportunity because I wouldn't still be able to leave and do what I've always wanted to do and, like, sing if I couldn't have the money first. And even the audience, it allowed me to, you know, go to LA and to get in a studio, and by the time I even had my first song out, people already knew who I was, so [laughs]

Jay Shetty 5:24 That's incredible. That's

Jay Shetty 5:25 incredible. What was your... Going backward, if you could think of a couple of memories from your childhood that you feel made you really find it to be so tough or your teenage life to be so challenging, what were those memories for you that you think spurred this desire to leave and build your own life and, and create and kinda follow that higher power, as you said? What were those things that happened to you specifically that you think were dark and hellish in that sense?

Nessa Barrett 5:52 Growing up, uh, it was very hard for me to have friends. I struggled a lot in school and with people my age. You know, I was someone that was Never really fit in. Uh, someone no one really understood, left out of a lot of things, bullied to an extent. Um, and I feel like that also drove me to wanna become better. Um, and I believed my entire life just being a good person, that will pay off. I feel like luckily it did. Um, but even, you know, my home life wasn't the best. And seeing my, my parents struggle, uh, with, you know, financially and within themselves and, uh, with each other, I feel like that really drove me to wanna have a better life than what anyone in my family had. But it was really hard growing up, and I'm at a place now where I love my parents so much, um, which came, you know, after a lot of healing. Um, but I just saw a lot, and I just knew that I wanted to be better than what I saw, and I wanted to do better. And also, too, it's like where I'm from, I'm from a small town. A nine-to-five job and going to college, I think that wasn't something that was for me, something that I desired, something that I was ever interested in. Um, I remember junior year I got in trouble because I refused to apply to any colleges. You know, I, I knew that I had to do something

Nessa Barrett 7:24 different.

Jay Shetty 7:24 Was it you that rekindled your relationship with your parents, or was it them? Like, how did that come about? Because that's really wonderful to hear-

Nessa Barrett 7:31 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 7:31 ... when that can happen.

Nessa Barrett 7:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 7:32 It's not possible for everyone, but-

Nessa Barrett 7:34 Yeah

Jay Shetty 7:34 ... how, how did that start?

Nessa Barrett 7:36 Yeah. Well, I've always had a rocky relationship with my parents. Um, but my mom, she's always my mom, and I loved her dearly, and I always will. And so we've always had somewhat of a relationship, even when I ran away, which at the time, me and my parents, we were not okay at all, which is why I ran away. Um, but, uh, yeah, I started doing hypnotherapy maybe a little over a year ago, if not a year ago, and that has been the one thing that has truly been life-changing, um, and changed who I am as a person. Because the whole idea of it is that it reaches down in your subconscious, and that's where all of your trauma is stored, you know? Even things that you don't remember. And we worked through everything that has affected me to this day that I couldn't even tell you, you know, that we were able to bring out. Um, and because of that, I've been able to talk to my dad, that I didn't for years and haven't since I ran away. I recently just visited them and went home for the first time last week for the Fourth of July. I saw my little brother that I haven't even met yet 'cause he was born a year ago. It's been really good. I feel like because of how I grew up and because of my childhood, I've been very independent, and I've been that type of person that was like, "I'm going to do everything myself, and I don't need anyone. I never needed anyone." Um, but, you know, coming out here by myself at 17, being in this industry and having to do a lot, which does put a toll on you mentally and, and physically, um, and also seeing people that are doing the same thing as me around my age, having a family with them, um, at a certain point I kind of realized how much family is important no matter what, you know? No matter how, um, bad things have gotten in the past, family's still family. And, uh, I've kind of prioritized that recently. And I mean, I wouldn't be able to do it with therapy, but it's been really nice to have a relationship that I now have that I probably never had with them my entire life.

Jay Shetty 9:37 That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. It's so, so wonderful to hear that you've been able to

Jay Shetty 9:42 reconnect in that way. What do you think has been the hardest thing about coming out here on your own, figuring it out? Like, what's been the biggest challenge with Hollywood, the music industry, this industry as you mentioned? Like, what's been the most difficult obstacle that you think you've had to face?

Nessa Barrett 9:59 I think loneliness. It's so weird how I would assume that some people, you know, that see me and see all that I've accomplished and all of the people that, um, listen to my music and follow me, they would think that that's something that I wouldn't struggle with, but it kinda makes me feel lonelier in a way. When I go on tour, per se, and I perform in front of thousands of people, and, um, I get offstage and I go back into a hotel room by myself, there's not a single thing that could explain how empty and lonely that feels, you know? Uh, being in front of so many people that love you and that you're connecting with through music and then just going back to have absolutely no one, you know, no one to talk to about it. Yeah, it's sad, and I deal th- with things daily, you know, all the time, and sometimes I don't have the people that I can just, you know, call, like my mom, you know? I can't just have my mom that comes here, and she can, like, tell me everything's gonna be okay. And it does get scary, and I feel like I've always been very mature for my age. But since being here, I've matured a lot, having to, uh, deal with certain things in the industry. But still at the same time, I feel like I'm still a kid at heart, you know? I, I just am only about to turn 21, which is crazy to think about. But I don't know. I feel like loneliness is something that I struggle with. Um, and it's very hard, uh, especially in LA and Hollywood and in the industry, to find the right people that you can really trust and count on. I feel like I'm even lucky enough to say that I've found, like, probably four, you know, the entire time I've been here. But you never know what people's intentions are, and, uh, not everyone has the same heart as you, which I feel like I struggle with as well.

Jay Shetty 11:54 Yeah. It's, it's so interesting how artists, I feel, for years have struggled with being on the road alone, and this year I got a glimpse for my first time-

Nessa Barrett 12:02 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 12:02 ... because I just went on a world tour.

Nessa Barrett 12:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:04 I'd never done it before. I'm obviously a lot older than you, and I Was traveling from February 1st till up about, up until about two, three weeks ago when I got home, and that was the longest I've ever been on the road. And I just sat there and just thought about all my clients or friends that I have who are musicians and people that I work with, and I was just sitting there thinking about how hard this would be if I started doing this when I was 15 or 16 or 17-

Nessa Barrett 12:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 12:33 ... or 20. And I can totally see why it's so challenging, but it feels like no one's really found a way to make it easier-

Nessa Barrett 12:41 No

Jay Shetty 12:41 ... which is why you still see artists after all this time canceling tours and announcing that they need a break, and it's-- Do you now see that as natural, that it is hard, or do you sometimes still sometimes fall into the trap of like, oh, it's a weakness or it's something about you? Or are you able to accept that this is just hard to do? Because I think some people kind of go back and forth. They feel guilty that they-

Nessa Barrett 13:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:07 ... find it that challenging.

Nessa Barrett 13:08 I mean, I feel like it has to be hard. With all the amazing things that I've been blessed with doing what I do, like, there has to be things that have to be difficult, you know? And I don't mind, you know, struggling because it, it gives me something to talk about-

Jay Shetty 13:21 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 13:21 ... and to write about. I mean, that's the whole-- That's what, uh, my whole, uh, music and everything that I'm about is, uh, focused on is, you know, the things that I struggle with, uh, and I talk about them so that I can help people. In a way, it's hard, but I feel like I'd rather deal with this-

Jay Shetty 13:41 Yeah

Nessa Barrett 13:41 ... you know, and the struggles that come with this than, you know, having to do something that I don't love and, you know, be unhappy with my life.

Jay Shetty 13:48 I think that's a great mindset. That's incredible that you've been able to grasp that idea so young. I think that idea, and I just wanna repeat it for everyone who's listening because it's really powerful. You just said that the life you've chosen, it comes with stresses and challenges and issues, but you'd rather choose that life-

Nessa Barrett 14:04 Mm

Jay Shetty 14:05 ... because it connects you to something you love than the other life, which sometimes we think, like, there's a path that has stress and there's a path-

Nessa Barrett 14:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 14:12 ... that won't have any.

Nessa Barrett 14:13 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:13 And that's just not true. Like, both of them have it. Whether you follow your dreams or you don't follow your dreams, there'll be stress on both paths.

Nessa Barrett 14:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:20 And it's about choosing which one you'd rather have. So it's incredible that you've grasped

Jay Shetty 14:25 that idea. I know that you struggled with anorexia in the past, and then you had a relapse during your tour as well, and I can't imagine just how challenging that is during a tour to, to have that experience again. Can you walk us through your relationship with it and how you've been able to try and navigate it and still continue to pour out into your music and connect with your fans and, you know, show up today to, to talk about your experience? It's not easy to do that. How, how have you done that?

Nessa Barrett 14:55 [sighs] I talk a lot about mental health because that's been something that I've struggled with since I was six, and, um, my entire life I've never really known or had a figure that has made me feel like I'm understood and not alone when it comes to things like that. Um, and I feel like fortunately now it's not as taboo as it's always been. But I feel like for the past, um, almost two years now, uh, anorexia has been, uh, one of my, uh, biggest mental health struggles, and I have made a song about it before, but I made that song when I, um, was recovered at the time, so I wasn't dealing with it as hard. But an eating disorder is something that's very personal and very hard to even articulate yourself, um, because it takes over your mind, and it's very different for everyone else. And sometimes I shy away from talking about it because I'm either embarrassed or I don't wanna admit that I'm struggling at the time because it's a very toxic, um, disorder. Or, um, it's very hard to talk about it and not be triggering to others, which gets difficult. Um, and I still, um, deal with it pretty bad to this day. I've been in talks about, you know, getting treatment and hopefully seeing someone and finally getting help because as much as I try to take time, um, to focus on mental health, when you really need intensive treatment for something and, you know, to go away for three weeks, it's not that easy, um, when you're trying to write an album, you know, and tour. Dealing with it on the road, though, was pretty hard. Um, when I'm at home in LA, I live by myself, and the only time-- I don't go out, you know. I don't really-- I'm not that much of a social person, so the only time I leave my house is when I go to the studio and I make music. So being alone, I feel like it's, it's hard to struggle with anorexia, but it's easier because I'm alone and I don't have to, you know, deal with anyone around me or any triggers, um, and things like that. But being on tour, you know, constantly being around a group of people where it is normal for people to eat. That's a thing that has to be done, you know, in order to live. So to be around people that are actually, uh, that don't struggle with it and are taking care of their bodies and that don't have to deal with body image, and then me also having to get on stage in front of people every night where it's like people are there to see me. Not only, like, the people that come to my shows, but everyone else gets to see them because people post videos. You know, there's pictures and videos taken at every angle. Um, and no matter how much I feel safe and at home on stage, you know, performing my songs and being with everyone that relates to them, in the back of my head when I'm struggling with my anorexia, all I can think about is how insecure I am and how I might look and what people might say or think. And, um, I've had a lot of Pretty dark, um, breakdown moments before stage where I couldn't even see how I could get on because I couldn't even figure out what to wear, you know, that would make me feel comfortable. And, um, when you're on the road for how many weeks or months, you don't have a huge option to, you know, to wear whatever you want, like your stage outfits are your stage outfits. The biggest struggle, I think, is just the physicality part of it. Um, scientifically, to be able to get on stage and have the energy to perform, uh, for, you know, over an hour every night, you have to have energy, and energy comes with eating and food, and that was something that I struggled with 'cause, uh, touring and, you know, my music and all this is so important to me, and it's really hard to not let my eating disorder get in the way of that. And so I would have to, uh, no matter how hard it was, but try and sit as however long it takes me and force myself to eat. That way I could, you know, get up on stage the next night without being too tired or, God forbid, passing out and, you know, not having the energy that they came for, you know. Because that's what it's important. And mentally too, it's like when I'm at a really low point and struggling and not eating for a while, I'm not my best self. You know? I'm not giving off that energy that makes people feel good around me, and I think that's kind of the saddest part about it. You know, I want to be my best self always. And so it's hard trying to find a balance, you know, and figuring out ways to help you, but also not make things harder.

Jay Shetty 20:13 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 20:13 Because the recovery process with anorexia is probably the hardest thing that I've ever dealt with my entire life. Like, I've been through intensive trauma therapy with hypno, uh, for my BPD, but, you know, just trying to figure out how to have a comfortable relationship with food itself is something that has been one of the hardest and scariest things that I've ever done my entire 20 years of living. Uh, which is hard to also do that, you know, during this time of my life.

Jay Shetty 20:52 Yeah. Thank you for being so vulnerable and open. I, I really appreciate it because, you know, that's what I'm trying to create here is a safe space where people can actually be seen and heard yourself, and then everyone who's listening who's either struggling with something similar or may love someone who's going through something like this. I can definitely testify that getting on stage without a d- eating disorder is hard enough-

Nessa Barrett 21:15 Yeah

Jay Shetty 21:15 ... in and of itself.

Nessa Barrett 21:16 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 21:17 And so having that extra layer of worrying and being concerned and even the energy, as you were saying, about even having the energy to perform. I remember just before I was going on stage, like being present, I remember how much presence I needed. I also sleep really early, so to go on the stage [laughs] at 8:00 PM, I'm like, "It's coming up to my bedtime in two hours."

Nessa Barrett 21:36 Uh.

Jay Shetty 21:36 Like, how am I gonna stay up without pumping my body with sugar or anything else? I want to stay up naturally.

Nessa Barrett 21:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 21:42 And that's without any of the stuff you're having to think about. So I'm just empathizing and, and listening in to what that challenge looks like. What would you like people to know about anorexia so that they're aware? Because I feel that a lot of the times these terms get normalized, and we hear them everywhere, but then we kind of become desensitized to it.

Nessa Barrett 22:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:02 And people aren't necessarily aware of how to deal with their friend who's going through it, or sometimes someone's kid's going through it. From your experience, not as like it's the same experience for everyone, because we know it's not. From your experience, what do you think it's good for people to know if someone they love or someone they know is going through something like this, or they think they might be? What would be useful for them?

Nessa Barrett 22:24 I think the first and biggest thing is that not only with just anorexia but with all eating disorders, it looks different on everyone.

Jay Shetty 22:31 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 22:31 There's not a look to it. Um, and I feel like it's so damaging when there's a common idea or image, you know-

Jay Shetty 22:39 Mm-hmm

Nessa Barrett 22:39 ... of how someone that is anorexic should look or how someone that struggles with an eating disorder should look. Um, and they kind of, you know, take that as to how sick they are, which, uh, that doesn't matter at all. Um, and I also feel like it's something that, you know, but just, it's impossible to understand, uh, something like anorexia if you have not gone through it before.

Jay Shetty 23:07 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 23:07 Because, I mean, to... Even with me just saying what I struggle with out loud and the whole idea that me being, um, obsessive and scared over food and obsessive with calories and terrified of weight gain and a control thing and all the things that I allow myself to believe, which they're all lies, and how my brain processes things and all of that stuff, I know that it's not real, and I know that it's all lies, you know, and I know it's absolutely delusional. Um, but that's still, that's the disorder. That's what happens. Um, and so when you don't struggle with that, you don't understand that, you know. So I, I have a lot of people that, you know, have told me before, you know, "Just eat," you know? Or, like, people, um, will say things that they think will help, but that's not, that's not the issue. Um, you know, I think most importantly is just to, you know, with any mental health disorder or anything like that, just the best thing to do for someone is to just give them love and support. Sometimes it's best not to try too hard to give advice or to say things that you think are going to help because there are some things that, you know, might ... seem helpful and that you might have good intentions by saying, um, but it might trigger someone, you know, that's dealing with it. For example, I know for me, and I feel like it might be a common thing for a lot of people that struggle with anorexia, the word healthy to everyone is a great word, you know? It's a positive word. Everyone wants to be healthy. But for me, when someone says that I look healthy, it makes me want to spiral, you know? It makes me go crazy because that's not a word that, you know, healthy to me I associate with something that, you know-

Jay Shetty 25:03 Mm-hmm

Nessa Barrett 25:03 ... is n- not the best, 'cause unfortunately in my brain, uh, being called sick is something that in a terrible and ugly way is something that comforts me more than the word healthy.

Jay Shetty 25:15 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 25:16 Which little things like that I feel like is important for people to know that want to be there for someone that don't, you know, understand. It's like you just have to be wise and not walk on eggshells, but just be more sympathetic and understanding of what they could possibly be going through, even though you don't understand. It's, yeah, something to this day that I still don't understand or get or, um, I kind of struggle with-

Jay Shetty 25:44 Yeah

Nessa Barrett 25:44 ... even coming to terms with the fact that I deal with it, because I am now at the point where I'm aware of how unhealthy it is, but I still can't process, you know, that it really isn't, um, real, 'cause I'm s- I still have that eating disorder mind, you know? Um, but yeah, I think just being supportive and loving and dealing with it with grace, um, and patience, um, I feel like that's a big thing. Uh, everyone wants who they love to be better and the best that they can be, and healthy and to get help when they need it. Um, but I think sometimes people forget the fact that getting help and recovery is something that's very linear, um, not linear. Um, it's a long process, you know, and it takes time, and something like this, I mean, I've been rushed into recovery before, which led me into a pretty terrible relapse, you know? It takes time, so you just have to be patient with people that are struggling and just give them as much love as you can. I feel like love goes a long way.

Jay Shetty 26:48 Yeah. Well, I think for what it's worth, your awareness and how eloquent you are in explaining at least what you're experiencing is really admirable.

Nessa Barrett 27:00 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 27:00 Honestly, like, just hearing you talk about it and reflect on it, your awareness is, is so high, which is an incredible step in your journey, and I think the advice you gave or the insight you gave is really useful because I think when we love someone, we think we have to solve their problems.

Nessa Barrett 27:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 27:20 And we think we have to say the perfect thing, and we think we can fix it, and you're so right that actually what we need to do is be patient and supportive and loving and kind, and just be there.

Nessa Barrett 27:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:34 And we don't have to say the perfect thing, and we don't have to have the perfect advice because we don't know what it feels like.

Nessa Barrett 27:39 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:40 And I think that that's really useful for people to hear, because we think we're useless-

Nessa Barrett 27:45 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 27:45 ... if we can't fix someone's problems when-

Nessa Barrett 27:47 Yeah

Jay Shetty 27:47 ... we love them.

Nessa Barrett 27:48 Mm-hmm. So true.

Jay Shetty 27:48 And that, and that person doesn't think you're useless. That person actually prefers if they just know you're there.

Nessa Barrett 27:54 Mm-hmm. 100%, yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:55 And you don't have to have the solution. One thing I loved when our teams first started talking about us sitting down was your Eight Stages of a Breakup, your new music.

Nessa Barrett 28:05 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:05 And I wrote a book called Eight Rules of Love.

Nessa Barrett 28:07 Oh, [laughs] I love that.

Jay Shetty 28:08 This year. And so when that came up, I was like, how ... I wrote a book about love this year-

Nessa Barrett 28:12 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 28:13 ... which is why I was on tour.

Nessa Barrett 28:14 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:15 And you've wrote [laughs] you've written music, you know, with ... And I know on TikTok I've been watching your videos of each stage and each part.

Nessa Barrett 28:22 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:23 And I find that, you know, you've, you've had two public breakups. It's never easy. Could you walk us through what you find is different between a public breakup and a private breakup? Because I almost feel like we don't really grasp that again-

Nessa Barrett 28:36 Yeah

Jay Shetty 28:36 ... until you've lived it.

Nessa Barrett 28:38 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 28:38 And I'm guessing you had breakups previously that were not public, potentially.

Nessa Barrett 28:42 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 28:42 What are the differences? Like, w- what do you notice?

Nessa Barrett 28:44 Breakups in general are just absolutely-

Jay Shetty 28:46 The worst

Nessa Barrett 28:47 ... the worst. Yeah. Hard. Um, even

Nessa Barrett 28:50 though I feel like they're, they're very critical experiences that you have to go through in life in order to grow, it, they suck. But a public breakup, man, I ... It ... Just the fact that it's not, you know, just your close relatives and friends that know about you and your relationship. It's probably millions of people that have kept up to date with, you know, your relationship and have been so invested and very, like, fixated on it. And even when it comes to the media today, anything that happens, even when it's not a breakup, drama is entertainment, you know? Um, people love to talk. People love to speculate. Um, and so dealing with public breakups, I feel like all of the drama that has to come with it, which I feel like is very unnecessary and causes a lot more, um, pain and hurt, uh, to the people that are actually going through it. You know, that doesn't help. Um, but it's like when I'm dealing with the grief of a relationship and losing someone that I loved so dearly, and then also on top of that, having to deal with hundreds of thousands of people talking about it as well, saying things that aren't true. You know, saying things that are hurtful, um, putting their two cents in it, being very, um, insensitive towards the whole thing. You know, not really understanding, because people don't understand that, you know, people in the public eye could possibly be You know, actually human with actual lives and, like, emotions. When they see whatever, you know, I let them on to see because I, you know, am, like, a public figure, um, I feel like they kinda take that as, oh, this is- that's her life. You know, that's all that they are. But behind closed doors, it's like I'm- I deal with it, you know, the depth of life as just as anyone else would. Um, and so a relationship and a breakup for me is just as real as love is for anyone else, and I feel like people forget that. So I feel like that's hard-

Jay Shetty 31:03 Mm-hmm

Nessa Barrett 31:03 ... with having to deal with everyone's opinions and comments and all the stuff that comes with that. But as well as con- nonstop constantly seeing, you know, pictures or videos and videos, like, y- you know, just anything about me and my past relationship and, like, all of that stuff. Feel like, uh, when, you know, growing up in high school when I first had my boyfriend and, and everyone started getting in, like, relationships, like, it was like a rule. Like, when you break up with someone, like, you delete their number. Like, you unfollow them on Instagram. Like, you don't look at them. You don't talk to them. Like, you don't hang out with them. Like, it's like a out of sight, out of mind type thing, you know? It helps you get o- You need that period where it's like they're gone, you know, and you c- [laughs] get over them easier. Well, like, it's impossible for me. It's everywhere, and so I feel like that's hard, you know, that constantly being brought up. I mean, how could you expect anyone to properly move on and get over a relationship that was so deep and intense when it's constantly talked about, constantly brought up in my life? Um, it's hard, not to mention I have a s- [laughs] a song with one of my exes, which is, uh, you know, it's just, it's kind of ... It's so different. It's, it's so different. And, um, yeah, I feel like a, you know, regular breakup through having to deal with, uh, a breakup with the public is always going to be, uh, hard. And, you know, they're both hard, but I feel like having the media involved is 100% a lot more difficult.

Jay Shetty 32:38 Yeah. How did you come up with the eight stages of a breakup?

Nessa Barrett 32:42 Oh my God, this is so funny. Um, but I was listening to, um ... So a lot of the times, I'm very intentional, and I, I, I'm very thought out when it comes to every little thing that I do, especially with music. Um, but this, [laughs] this whole eight stages of a heartbreak,

Nessa Barrett 33:01 um, breakup thing actually came after it was done. Um, I was listening from top to bottom through my entire EP after it was mixed and mastered, and [laughs] I was kind of like, you know what? This is kind of like going through, like, all eight stages of a breakup. So I was like, instead of the seven stages of grief, like, this is, like, eight stages 'cause there's eight songs of a breakup and, like, the grief of a relationship. And [laughs] I was with my team, and they were like, "Whoa. It's kinda, it's kinda cool." And I was like, "Yeah." And so it all makes sense. Sometimes, um, I plan things out before. Sometimes things just magically fall into place and make sense after. Um, but yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:45 I, I love it. I, I, I love it. I think, I think when we start recognizing there's stages and phases to anything-

Nessa Barrett 33:51 Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 33:51 ... it helps us so much as humans-

Nessa Barrett 33:54 Uh-

Jay Shetty 33:54 ... where we realize it's not just all one big thing.

Nessa Barrett 33:56 Mm.

Jay Shetty 33:57 There's actually changes in how we feel. What's the, what have you found to be the hardest stage in a breakup for you personally? Or like what's, what's the stage that you find the most challenging?

Nessa Barrett 34:06 [laughs] I feel like they're all really hard, but I feel like-

Jay Shetty 34:08 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 34:09 ... the, the one I think that I ... I call this one the desperate stage. [laughs] Um, and I just made a video about it 'cause I have this song called Motel Whore.

Jay Shetty 34:19 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 34:20 And I was like, this one represents the desperate stage of a breakup, and it's, it's kind of like that bargaining stage where you just try and do whatever you can to get that person back in your life no matter what costs and, like, however you can. So yeah, it's when, like, you break up with them and then you're at the point where it's like you just want them in your life, that you're willing to do whatever it is to keep them in your life somehow even though it hurts you because you know the way that you want them in your life is the way that you had them before in that relationship. But now it's like it's not that, and so you kinda end up hurting yourself more because you're, you know, putting yourself back in that place but also knowing that, like, you're gonna end up leaving heartbroken again 'cause it's a lot harder when, you know, you try and be with that person, whether it's, like, friends or just, like, hooking up or any of that stuff when there's, like, actual, real love and connection on your part still. But it's like, and you try to convince yourself, like, oh, like, this is gonna get them back. Like, our relationship's gonna be like, you know, how it was before. But it doesn't happen, and then it crushes you even more. Um, I feel like that's the hardest stage, when you just become very desperate for any ounce of attention that you can get from that person, um, because it ends up breaking your heart even more, you know? You didn't-- you could skip that stage and, you know, fully, like, lead on the path of healing the way that you should, but I feel like [laughs] that's, like, the one stage where we kinda, like, trip up the stairs and we're like, [laughs] "Oh, God. Yeah, we made it harder for ourselves."

Jay Shetty 35:50 Yeah, that's well said. I, I couldn't agree more. That, that really resonates because I think we're living in that dream of, like, what it could've been and what it should be, and, like, they must love me and it's g- I'm gonna get it back-

Nessa Barrett 36:03 Yeah

Jay Shetty 36:03 ... and I'm gonna win them over, and it, I mean, we waste so much time in that. What do you think is, like, the longest stage? What stage do you think and you spend the most time in when you break up with someone, where you're just, like, so much energy gets sucked out in being lost at a stage?

Nessa Barrett 36:17 Trying to recover from the codependency part, um, because, I mean, when you're in a relationship, I know I get so codependent

Nessa Barrett 36:28 on someone, you know? That's the person that you have always, you know? You, there's something that you go through. Like, you have that one person that you can talk to, cry to. They're always there for you. Um, they become your comfort, you know? That's your safe place. And then when- The relationship's over. It's like you don't have that. You're left on your own. I feel like that was the longest stage for me to get over because I was so used to being so codependent on someone and, you know, having that comfort. When it's all gone, every time that I dealt with something that was hard for me, every time that I got upset, every time I felt alone, I couldn't help but want and, like, crave that person because I was used to having them during those times. And trying to escape from the codependency and learning how to love yourself and enjoy your own company and, uh, even just, like, coming to terms with the fact that, like, you can be that person for yourself, you know, and that you don't need anyone, um, I feel like that's the longest process, 100%.

Jay Shetty 37:33 Hmm. You're, you're so right. What, what helped you personally in both those stages? So let's go back to the first stage.

Nessa Barrett 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 37:41 That stage of, like, 'I'm desperate. I'll do anything to get them back.' Like, you know, you said that was the hardest stage. Like, what helped you in your life break through that stage? Because you're so right, it is the hardest because it's the one where we have the most hope-

Nessa Barrett 37:55 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 37:55 ... but it's false hope, and it's the one where we also are living the most in dreamland in our minds.

Nessa Barrett 38:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:01 So it's so hard when that picture crumbles.

Nessa Barrett 38:04 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 38:04 What have you done? What's really worked for you?

Nessa Barrett 38:07 I think therapy was a big thing for me,

Nessa Barrett 38:09 and, uh, uh, there was a moment where during that time where I fully took the step to f- almost fully isolate myself, where I was only focused on myself and my healing and my music and things that made me happy. And I spent that time really trying to figure out, you know, who I am as a person and the things that I love and the things that help me. And so it kind of like ... You know that, like, point of a relationship where, like, you start to, like, understand and, like, know that, like, person that you're with, you know, and you get closer with them, it's like that very beginning. It was kind of like I started to go through that with myself. And so it kind of took me away from having to, you know, really struggle with the, um, the breakup. I feel like you just gotta fake it until you make it and just force yourself, and there's always gonna be days. I mean, like, I thought there was, like, a day where I was, like, fine, and then two seconds later I see something and I'm bawling my eyes out, you know? And even, like, randomly, like, you know, months later I'm fully moved on, but I'll still get sad over things because, like, love is such a strong feeling that n- never goes away. No matter, like, what happens or how things ended and, you know, any of that, like, if you ever had true love for that person, you're always going to love them. It was always hard, but I think the second that I really started to prioritize myself and to really just, like, focus on myself and, uh, fixate on that rather than how much I miss that person, um, it helped.

Jay Shetty 39:50 Yeah. That's ... Yeah. That's really ... I hope, I hope that's gonna help people. I hope it sits with people 'cause you're right. It's just almost like you gotta push through sometimes.

Nessa Barrett 39:59 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:59 It's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna make sense, but when you're in that longest phase and it's just getting drawn out-

Nessa Barrett 40:05 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 40:05 ... how do you even keep hope, and how do you even keep faith that I can have love again and that I do deserve to be loved? Because I think in that longest phase is where a lot of people get so broken down that they're like, "I'm not lovable."

Nessa Barrett 40:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:21 "I'm not likable. I'm not worthy. I'm not

Jay Shetty 40:24 attractive. I'm not smart," whatever it may be that that person made me feel.

Nessa Barrett 40:29 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 40:30 Now it's like I can't be all of those things because it's ... That stage is drawn out so much that it beats up your self-esteem.

Nessa Barrett 40:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:38 If that makes sense.

Nessa Barrett 40:39 Uh, no. That was something that I struggled with for the longest time, and I think that the, the more that you keep yourself in that minds- like, mindset, the harder that it's going to be to get out of that because, yeah, of, of course. I mean, like, when you start kind of, like, tearing yourself down and thinking about, you know, how difficult it is to fall in love again and that you, you won't because no one's ever gonna love you and all of that stuff, and you're, you're worthless and everything that comes with that, it's gonna keep you away from doing the proper healing and to actually want to heal. Because if you have that mindset, then it's like what's the point of healing, you know, and getting better? I realized, I got to a point where I was like, "Yeah, I'm never going to fall in love again," or, "No one's ever gonna love me," and then it got to the point where I was like, "You know what? I don't care. I don't care to ever have a relationship. Like, I'm fine." Because every relationship, I mean, you ... There's probably gonna be a few trial and error ones until you find the person that you, like, really end up being with, you know? And so it's no guarantee that the next one that I get in, like, in a relationship with is going to be the one which would, you know, most likely end up in a heartbreak that in that moment I'm like, "I cannot afford to go through again," so I don't even care to, you know, be in a relationship or find love again. Um, but then in therapy I realized that it's ... that's not going to change unless you love yourself. I feel like loving yourself is, like, the biggest thing and, like, the most important thing, and I feel like everyone kind of neglects that because it's like it seems like something that's just not, not, like, unnecessary, but we overlook it because, like, we are, you know, who we are, and we give love to everyone around us because, like, that's life, you know? But I feel like a lot of the times we forget to look internally, and the only way that you can give things to people is if you already have it within you. And when I realized that even if, like, I want to be ... in a relationship and I want someone and I want to be in love, I'm probably not capable to love someone as best as I can because I can't even love myself, and I don't right now. Um, and so yeah, I feel like as soon as you just work on that self-love-

Jay Shetty 43:00 Mm-hmm

Nessa Barrett 43:00 ... that's when things start being easier. Because then you also get out of that mindset where you're like you don't really need anyone, you know? Um, and you couldn't be okay with, you know, not having to look, you know, and constantly like think about, um, wanting a relationship or like finding that person to be with. And you can just like spend, you know, nights alone without having to cry about it or wish that there was someone with you. Um, but yeah, self-love I feel like is the, the key.

Jay Shetty 43:32 How do you find things, or how have you found things that you love about yourself? Because I think we live in a society that makes us love ourselves because other people love us.

Nessa Barrett 43:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:43 So it's like if someone thinks you're attractive, then you think, "Oh yeah, I'm attractive."

Nessa Barrett 43:46 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:46 This is like, this is good. Or if someone thinks you're really smart, then you're like, "Oh yeah, they think I'm smart, so now I'm smart." Like, so much of our self-value-

Nessa Barrett 43:54 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 43:55 ... weirdly is placed on other people valuing us.

Nessa Barrett 43:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:58 How have you found things to really love about yourself? Because I, I agree with you fully, but how do you go that step further to be like, "I really love this about myself, even if no one else sees it"?

Nessa Barrett 44:08 I could never understand the things that I could possibly love about myself until the moment that I thought about my younger self, because that's still me, you know? The second that I started, you know, looking back on the person that I used to be, and, you know, even just like six-year-old me, um, I started to think about all the things that she would be so happy and proud of that I've done, you know, today. That's when I started to, you know, find things that I actually could feel, you know, love for myself with, and to feel proud of myself, uh, for and all of those things. And then, I don't know, and then sometimes you just kinda d- have to dig a little bit deeper. Because I feel like self-love is a lot less superficial than, um, you know, any other love could possibly be. Um, and it has to be really deep, because it's like you know who you are as a person to the deepest core more than anyone else could, more than you can know other people in order to love them. So I feel like that's why it's tricky for us to love y- like ourselves, because we know the ins and outs of us, and the worst parts of us and the ugliest parts. And so, and we're our worst critics, so I feel like that's the hardest thing. But yeah, when I, when I thought about it and I'm like, "Okay, well, I've been able to do the things that I did, which I never thought I was able to. Like, that's something that I should be proud of. Um, the things that I've gone through, um, that I never thought that I could make it out of, and my strength, like that's something that I should love myself for, um, and just have compassion for myself for. Um, even just the fact that like at the end of the day, no matter all of the things that I've been through, and no matter like how bad people have treated me, like the fact that I'm still a good person and I still have a good heart and I know that, you know, more than anyone else could, that's the reason why I should love myself, you know?" Um, so I feel like it's just like little things, and I feel like it's just very important to just like sit down and really just like analyze yourself and to, you know, just take time to like understand, um, you, which I feel like is something that I, I just learned how to do. But it's like, it's really nice.

Jay Shetty 46:40 Everyone who's listening, I want you to take a screenshot right now, and I want you to listen to that part-

Nessa Barrett 46:43 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:44 ... that Nessa just said again, and again, and again. It could even put you to sleep. Like, it's so brilliant because everything you just said, that literally the last 30 seconds, I promise you, if you just listen to the last 30 seconds again and again and again, the point will become so clear. Because what you just said sums up an idea that I, I really believe in. I believe that self-care comes from comfort-

Nessa Barrett 47:09 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 47:10 ... but self-respect comes from discomfort. And you just said that when you look back at all the things you've been through and all the things you survived and all the things you've done, that's what makes you love yourself.

Nessa Barrett 47:21 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:22 And I believe that everyone who's listening or watching today, they've all been through hard things.

Nessa Barrett 47:26 100%.

Jay Shetty 47:26 Everyone b- everyone's been through some sort of difficulty in their life. They're still alive, they're still breathing, they've still held onto their good heart.

Nessa Barrett 47:34 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:34 They're still a good person, and that's what you really wanna love yourself for. And when you learn to love yourself for that, you realize no one ever gave you that, and no one can take it away.

Nessa Barrett 47:44 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 47:44 And it's yours.

Nessa Barrett 47:45 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:45 Whereas all the other things, they'll come and go, and people will change their mind, but this is something that's forever yours. And so you just summed it up really beautifully, and I, I love the way you said it. I hope people will... Honestly, I mean that. Just repeat it again and again, because it's just rewiring our thoughts-

Nessa Barrett 48:02 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:02 ... to be like, "That's

Jay Shetty 48:03 why I'm valuable. I'm not valuable because of all these other things that, that people are saying." One thing you do that I love, you do a burn box on stage-

Nessa Barrett 48:13 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 48:13 ... where you get fans to write messages-

Nessa Barrett 48:16 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 48:17 ... and then you burn them.

Nessa Barrett 48:18 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 48:19 That is so cool. I love that. That is the dopest thing I've ever heard of.

Nessa Barrett 48:21 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:22 I was like, "We need to do that at my next show."

Nessa Barrett 48:24 Thank you. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:24 Where did that ritual come from? Walk me through. Did you used to do that yourself? Was that something you invented for the community? Like, what... Tell me where that came from, because I love that. When I-

Nessa Barrett 48:34 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:34 ... when I saw that, I was like, "This is amazing."

Nessa Barrett 48:36 [laughs] Thank you. Um, well, the thing about my music is that it's very, it's very deep and meaningful, and I talk a lot about mental health. And I know that a lot of the people that come to my shows are there because they have struggled, and they relate deeply to my songs, you know? It's not just- Um, I never want my shows and my tour to just be a show where it's, you know, just me playing, you know, their favorite songs. Like, I want this to be, like, n- n- not like a, a therapy session, but like a h- a healing, you know, moment for everyone, like a bonding moment, something that's really real, something that they can walk away from and not only just remember the music, but the feeling, um, that they've gotten from it. And I also wanted to do something that was interactive and helpful and healing the same way, and I thought that doing a burn box could be cool. And it was also kind of the easiest thing that we could, you know, execute [laughs]

Jay Shetty 49:36 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 49:37 ... for my show, like, at the time. But, um, I mean, like, what better, like, interactive thing to do, like, on stage than to have, you know, a bunch of my fans that are coming to the show and write on a little piece of paper things that they're struggling with, they wanna let go of, get off their chest, and just, like, let, you know, just not bottle up anymore, and just, like, get off their chest, write it down anonymously, put it in this burn box, and then watch it being burned on stage. You know, I feel like that there's something so powerful about that, and, um, I'm so glad that we did it because it was, it was, you know, most of their, like, favorite parts of the entire show, and it's helped a lot of people. And, um, I even, like, I've seen, like, people in the crowd, like, cry before while I'm burning it, and it's just like, that's what, like, makes, that's what makes my day, and that's what motivates me to, you know, even do the show and to, like, do what I'm doing now because, like, that's the reason why I'm doing it, and it's just so pure, um, and heartwarming just to see, like, how something like that, you know, that I thought could be, like, a little fun, like, could actually, like, affect them, like, on a deep level. Um, but yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 50:55 Yeah. Well, it, I mean, it seems like all your music and all the work you're doing is so healing focused. Seems like you're doing so much self-healing. It seems like the work you want your community to do is healing. I think it's, I mean, I think it's a genius idea to do on stage. It's, I think it's such a beautiful thing to have rituals that communities, your audience, can come and do together-

Nessa Barrett 51:13 Yeah

Jay Shetty 51:13 ... and I can only imagine-

Nessa Barrett 51:15 Mm

Jay Shetty 51:15 ... the incredible experience people are having. You said that was the easiest thing you could do at this stage. What's, like, the craziest thing you wanna do that you think would be-

Nessa Barrett 51:23 Oh

Jay Shetty 51:23 ... super healing for everyone?

Nessa Barrett 51:24 Oh, God.

Jay Shetty 51:24 Do you have, like, a vision for it?

Nessa Barrett 51:26 Um-

Jay Shetty 51:26 You don't have to. I was just wondering-

Nessa Barrett 51:27 No, like-

Jay Shetty 51:27 ... if there was something else that-

Nessa Barrett 51:28 I've had, like, I've had, like, some, like, pretty crazy ideas. Um, let me try and think. I just want to do, like, a lot. Like, I've, I know that there's, like, certain songs

Nessa Barrett 51:41 that, like, I've, I'd love to just, like, be able to, like, get certain people from the crowd that really resonate or are struggling with something that has to do with that song and, like, bring them up and, you know, have a moment with them. Um, I would also love, like, a point where I, you know, ever have, like, a big enough show where I can, like, actually have, you know, some, my fans, you know, tell their stories 'cause I think it's-

Jay Shetty 52:06 Wow

Nessa Barrett 52:06 ... just as important for, uh, me to have a voice as it is for them, you know? 'Cause I've said this before, it's like I kinda use my music to be the voice for the voiceless. And so when I get to a point where I can, um, do whatever the heck I want-

Jay Shetty 52:21 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 52:21 ... on stage, like, I, I wanna give them their voice, you know?

Jay Shetty 52:24 Yeah.

Nessa Barrett 52:24 I want them to have the mic, and I want them to say whatever they feel the need to. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like there's so many, like, cool things to do, but the burn box is just, like, so awesome, and it also was, like, very disappointing for the some venues that I couldn't do it in 'cause it was-

Jay Shetty 52:38 Of course, yeah

Nessa Barrett 52:38 ... a safety hazard.

Jay Shetty 52:39 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 52:40 But yeah. And I also love fire. I think fire is fun, too, so. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 52:43 [laughs] No, I love the interactive element. Even in my show we did a ton of interactive stuff.

Nessa Barrett 52:47 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 52:47 I set people up on first dates on stage.

Nessa Barrett 52:50 I love it. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 52:51 Uh, I had, uh, what else did we do? I locked people in the caves for 15 minutes so they had to spend time alone without their phone.

Nessa Barrett 52:58 Oh my God.

Jay Shetty 52:59 Uh, we were doing this all on stage. Like, it was ... And I love that interactive element-

Nessa Barrett 53:03 Mm

Jay Shetty 53:03 ... because I agree with you completely that people need to feel and experience this.

Nessa Barrett 53:07 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 53:07 It's not just, like, some idea. And you're right that people really do have a letting go, releasing energy in the room when everyone's doing it together, so-

Nessa Barrett 53:18 100%

Jay Shetty 53:18 ... I'm excited to see what you do next. Like, that's, that's, that's brilliant. I think combining music and that sort of a healing experience is-

Nessa Barrett 53:25 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 53:25 ... super unique and really powerful, so I, I'm excited for you to have bigger audiences, bigger venues, and all of, all of that to come to you, all of that to happen. One, one thing that comes to mind for me when we're talking about all of this with you is just you've done so much at such a young age. It seems like you're navigating it and, and, and doing it in the best way you possibly can with getting the help and reconnecting with your family, doing therapy. I mean, I'm so happy that you've been supported this young and you've found that support because I either meet people who've been around in the industry for decades and they've just found support, or I meet people who are young and kind of really gone off on a different path, and there's very few people your age who I think have, have found that, and that's really incredible to see. What do you think that young artists need in order to be supported in, in their journey of being a musician, an actor, an actress, a whatever it may be? What, what do you think would be really useful for them, for people who are aspiring? Because I think everyone would want ... Everyone from the outside would look at your life and be like, "I want that. I wanna be that."

Nessa Barrett 54:35 Yeah.

Nessa Barrett 54:36 Mm.

Jay Shetty 54:36 What do you think they should be aware of in their journey and pursuit that could help them?

Nessa Barrett 54:43 I think that the biggest Advice and the biggest thing that has helped me and that I could tell anyone is to be very vocal and honest and open and vulnerable, you know, to the closest people around you, to your team, to the people that you trust because I think that's how I was able to create such a stable support system around me from the beginning. Um, because, you know, it- everyone knows the m- type of music that I talk about, and everyone knows that I actually struggle with it as well. And so I feel like that's why, um, it's me being so open and honest about, you know, the things that I struggle with and my needs and the things that I need help with. I think that's, uh, helped me be able to continue this because there's other people that are aware and in support of that as well. And I think, like, even if people don't really struggle with anyone, just being honest in yourself and never losing sight of that. I feel like I've even had moments where I've almost lost myself in this 'cause it's so easy to get influenced and to try and figure out, you know, what ... who's the person that people want you to be and who- what's the type of music or, you know, anything like that that people want from you. Um, but that's not gonna do anything but hurt you and your career. And, um, I was just ... I had, like, a conversation, like, not too long ago where it's like, y- yeah, like, my dream and my goal is to be, like, one of the biggest artists ever. Of course that's, like, what I'm doing this for. But I'm not- never in my entire life going to sit down and release a song that I know is a hit or to go and write a song that I know is a hit that doesn't feel like me as an artist and isn't something that I relate to just so that, you know, it'll, you know, give me a step up in the career and maybe, like, you know, create this, like, skyrocket process for me because it is a hit, you know, and it's something that would be good in the industry. I'd rather build whatever I can by being myself because that's more ... It's more like I'd feel more proud doing that and accomplishing things just being myself and, you know, saying the things that I wanna say and being real. I feel like that means the world to me more than just, you know, being an artist and releasing hits and being a person that, you know, it's ... I feel like it's just the easy way out a little bit. But, um, I feel like because of how I started this and how I continue, uh, to do all of this is what's gonna make me be able to do it for the rest of my life. Because I'm not gonna get, like, trapped in this, like, facade or this, uh, crazy head space. It's like everyone knows me, who I am, and, uh, this music, uh, helps me probably just as much as it helps everyone out there. And so I feel very fortunate for that. So yeah, anyone that is inspiring to do this or needs any advice, I would just say to be themselves.

Jay Shetty 57:54 Nessa, that's incredible. Yeah, I, I ... You are, you're definitely wise beyond your years, and-

Nessa Barrett 57:58 Thank you

Jay Shetty 57:59 ... uh, you're ... I, I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. Like, you know, for everything-

Nessa Barrett 58:03 Thank you

Jay Shetty 58:03 ... you just said. I, I think we need more art in the world that is made from a place of healing in order to help people. It can still be fun and exciting and interactive and entertaining and all of that.

Nessa Barrett 58:14 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 58:14 But it, but it's made from that deeper place, which I feel like you're definitely trying to channel. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.

Nessa Barrett 58:22 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 58:22 These are the fast five. The questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

Nessa Barrett 58:27 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 58:27 However, when I get intrigued, I always go off record, which is fine. We'll d- we'll do that. So Nessa, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Nessa Barrett 58:40 Let go and let God.

Jay Shetty 58:42 Mm.

Nessa Barrett 58:42 Feel like that's 100% the best advice ever.

Jay Shetty 58:45 Beautiful. All right, question two: What's the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Nessa Barrett 58:50 Text him. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 58:51 [laughs] All right, go on, tell me more. Tell me more.

Nessa Barrett 58:55 Um, you know, if you're just, like, in your head about, like, an, an ex or anything like that [laughs] and someone tells you, "You know what? Just text him," do not listen. Do not. You know? I feel like there's a lot of advice that kinda just enables your bad habits. Just try to stay away from that. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:13 Got it. Great, great advice. So I'm g- I'm gonna ask you ... I've, I'm gonna go slightly off-piste here 'cause I think you might have some good advice for people. Let's say I have a hypothetical friend.

Nessa Barrett 59:22 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 59:22 It's a real friend. But let's say I have a friend who is around your age-

Nessa Barrett 59:27 Yeah

Jay Shetty 59:28 ... and she deals with people pleasing.

Nessa Barrett 59:33 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 59:34 She becomes friends with guys who actually wanna get with her-

Nessa Barrett 59:37 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 59:37 ... but then she doesn't like them in that way.

Nessa Barrett 59:41 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 59:41 But then she feels bad to tell them that.

Nessa Barrett 59:43 Mm-hmm. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:44 What should she do in that scenario? Why are you laughing? I ... There, there's something going on here.

Nessa Barrett 59:48 It's just like this reminds me so much of myself. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:50 Oh, right. Oh, that's so funny. Great.

Nessa Barrett 59:52 Um-

Jay Shetty 59:52 So what advice ... But what advice would you give to my friend? It's a real story, [laughs] so I'm like-

Nessa Barrett 59:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:59 I'm, like, actually asking.

Nessa Barrett 1:00:00 I'm trying-

Jay Shetty 1:00:00 When she listens to this, she's gonna be like, "Jay, how did you put me out like this?"

Nessa Barrett 1:00:03 I think boundaries is, like, the biggest advice. And I feel like when you are a people pleaser and you're a very nice person, like, at the core, and, um, you only see, like, the good in people and you can't really, like ... You're ... It's easy to, like ... It's, it's easy to ignore any red flags. I feel like, um, yeah, just try and set as many boundaries as yourself and just, like, protect yourself, and just be cautious. I feel like just being cautious is the biggest thing because there are sticky situations that you can get into just because you're genuinely a nice person. Um, and everyone has different intentions than you.

Jay Shetty 1:00:41 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 1:00:41 Um, so I think slow ... being slow and steady and, and cautious

Jay Shetty 1:00:46 Okay, great

Nessa Barrett 1:00:47 And yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:47 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 1:00:48 I don't know. [laughs] Sometimes it's hard for me to give advice when, like, I'm say- I don't even know what to do. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:00:53 [laughs] That's why I'm asking.

Nessa Barrett 1:00:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:54 That's why I'm asking. I wanna know what you would do. Uh, question number three: What keeps you up at night?

Nessa Barrett 1:00:59 Honestly, anything. A- a- anything and everything. I, I could think about, you know, certain situations that are d- happening in my personal life or, uh, you know, I've, I, I get paranoid and have, like, anxiety about, like, with my family 'cause they're so far from me now. Um, or I just start thinking about deep things like God, and the universe, and aliens, and weird stuff like that-

Jay Shetty 1:01:24 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 1:01:24 ... and if I'm even human. Um, but yeah. I think anything [laughs] really keeps me up at night in a weird way. Um, e- even sometimes, like, songwriting, I feel like I've stayed up for hours before trying to write a song. Absolutely goes nowhere.

Jay Shetty 1:01:38 [laughs]

Nessa Barrett 1:01:38 But yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:40 I love it. Uh, question number four: If someone needs to break up with someone, what is your best advice to the person doing the breaking up?

Nessa Barrett 1:01:48 Sit them down and have a really nice, respectful conversation about it, and be as vocal and honest as you can, and still have compassion, and not try to let things get fired up, or also stand your ground. Because if you already want to break up with them, don't let them convince you otherwise. And do so without cheating or being disloyal, because it is not nice. Um, I have this song that I wrote recently that was, uh, it's called Leave Me Better Than You Found Me, and so it's kind of like that's like my whole, um, thing, like about breakups. It's like if you're gonna break up with someone, like, don't do all of the, the yelling, and the arguments, and the cheating, and the slamming the door before you leave. At, like, when you break up, like, literally just have it be, like, a nice, mature, open conversation and, like, you know, have it be a kiss goodbye rather than, like, a slam-to-the-door-out type thing.

Jay Shetty 1:02:45 Mm-hmm.

Nessa Barrett 1:02:45 You know? Uh, don't cause any more trouble, uh, trouble and, like, pain than, like, y- you know, you need to.

Jay Shetty 1:02:52 Yeah.

Nessa Barrett 1:02:53 But yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:53 Great advice. Great advice. There we go.

Nessa Barrett 1:02:55 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:55 All right. Fifth and final question. Uh, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Nessa Barrett 1:03:06 Okay, this one seems so, like, stupid. This is the first thing that came up in my head, but I think that if there was a law that where if, like, you had to... Ugh, I feel like I'm gonna sound, like, so, like, cringe and, like, cliche doing this.

Jay Shetty 1:03:23 No, no.

Nessa Barrett 1:03:24 But, like, if you see someone, like, in public that's, like, very, like, obviously going through it, and, like, crying and, like, in pain, like, give them a hug, give them, like, love. I feel like that is something that should be a law. I feel like nowadays there's so much hatred and, um, separation in the world. I feel like we just need a lot more love. So if there was a law that was like, if you see someone that needs it, give them love and give them a hug, I feel like that would make the world a lot more of a better place.

Jay Shetty 1:03:55 That's awesome. I love it. Nessa, everyone. Hell Is A Teenage Girl, music is out right now.

Nessa Barrett 1:04:01 Yay.

Jay Shetty 1:04:01 Uh, I hope anyone who's going through a breakup, been through a tough breakup-

Nessa Barrett 1:04:04 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04:05 ... just wants to have good energy and good healing in their life should go listen to the music. I know that I'll be recommending it to everyone. Uh, Nessa, I'm just so grateful to you for, you know, even just talking to you has been so peaceful, so calming. And, and what's really wonderful is hearing someone who's obviously been through so much, but able to express it in a really coherent way. That's not easy. Like, that's really tough. And, and to hear about all the work that you're doing on yourself, and the therapy, and the hypnotherapy, and just reflecting, and making music, and expressing your art. All of that is just, I really appreciate it, and it's, it's wonderful to see. And thank you so much for all the hard work you're doing for yourself, and then to share it with others as well. But even just hearing you speak, I'm like, "I hope everyone just listens to this [laughs] episode on repeat," because they're gonna get so much out of it. But Nessa, thank you so much.

Nessa Barrett 1:04:55 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:04:55 Everyone who's been listening or watching, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're at the gym, whether you're driving, whatever you're doing, make sure you tag Nessa and I on TikTok, on Instagram, on Threads, on Twitter, on any platform you're using, letting us know what stood out to you, what stuck out to you, what you're practicing, what moments you're re-listening to. I love seeing what resonates with you. Maybe you're gonna do your own Burn Box at home.

Nessa Barrett 1:05:18 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:18 Do it safely. Uh, thank you so much for listening and watching. A huge thanks to Nessa for being here.

Nessa Barrett 1:05:23 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:05:24 And thank you so much. That was awesome. Thank you.

Nessa Barrett 1:05:26 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:05:26 If you loved this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.

Speaker 1:05:36 My therapist told me, "Stand in the mirror naked for five minutes." It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three when I did it, I was like, "You know what? Her thighs are cute