The Top Communication Advice of the Year: Best of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Jefferson Fisher 0:00 Hey, everybody. Coming at you from beautiful Colorado on vacation with the family. I have to say that 2024 has been absolutely wild. We started this podcast, which charted number one for three entire weeks. I finished my book, which releases in a few months, and I got to speak at NASA and tons of other cities I've never been before. All I can say is a huge thank you to every one of you who's supported me and followed me along the way. And to wrap up 2024, I put together your top three most listened to episodes of season one of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast. And I'm eternally grateful for you, and I hope you have a wonderful end to the year.

Jefferson Fisher 0:33 Today, we're talking about how to respond to rude comments, those moments you're caught off guard by something that wasn't nice. Do you say something? Do you not say something? What do you say? All that and more coming right up. The next time someone makes a rude comment towards you, here's what I want you to do. Number one, begin your response with the phrase, "Did you mean?" It's a question of intent. We're gonna go into detail on that. "Did you mean?" Number two, if it's a more passive-aggressive type of rude comment, in other words, it's not directly at you, it's more off to the side, and you know and they know it was meant for you, we're gonna have questions that check them. These are questions like, "Did I offend you in some way?" Or, "Are you doing all right? It sounds like you're having a, a hard day." There are ways that you can check them without coming across like you're also wanting to be rude. And number three, my personal favorite response to a rude comment is nothing at all. You respond with absolute silence, but there's a technique and a trick on how to do it correctly. And here's the thing about rude comments: they're tests. They're ways for the other person to test and assess what your temperature is. Can they get a reaction out of you or not? So I want you to pretend it's like a card game, and you have a set of cards, they have a set of cards. When they first make that rude comment, they're playing a two. You have a choice. Do I play this game or do I not? Maybe you decide that you want to. You're gonna lay a four. Well, they're gonna lay another rude comment, and then they play a seven. And you go, "Okay, how far do I push this? How oft- how far do we go in these rude comments between one another?" And that's a bad game to play because nobody wins. All right? Everybody's gonna lose in that game. One of you's gonna have to apologize, and it's typically the person who plays the last card. Whoever said the worst thing that shuts the game down, it's typically the person who is now the responsibility to apologize first, when you can end it all by just not playing the game. Uh, rude comments are like platforms to where if they say something rude and you say something rude, well, you've now just justified them in taking another step. You've now justified and said... uh, convinced them that you are every bit of the comment that they just made because now instead of being curious about it and saying, "Hey, where's this coming from?" Instead, you're doubling down on it, which makes it look like you're confirming what they said and saying, "Yeah, but even, but you're this and you're that, and you're X, Y, and Z." They're just gonna get more defensive, and then it's gonna continue to ramp up. So it's a losing game. Lose-lose situation. Don't do it.

Jefferson Fisher 3:11 So let's assume that someone's made a rude comment towards you. Now, rude comments, in my opinion, are ones that they're not terribly insulting, s- like super condescending, bad, bad things that you would say directly to somebody, but they're also not polite, they're not nice, they're not kind. They kind of fall in between. Usually, they catch you off guard, that you're not expecting them in some way, and at that moment you have a decision. Do I respond or do I not respond? And the answer depends on the context. It also depends on the relationship. But let's assume in this situation w- y- you're walking into a meeting and you have somebody that you know is... y- you two really don't get along all that much, but they make this comment. They say, "Well, it's nice of you to finally show up." In that moment, you know that's a dig. The other people around know that's a dig. But they may not know the history between you two, so you're stuck in this situation of, "What do I say?" Because if I'm ugly and I bring up past stuff, the people around you aren't gonna understand. But they will understand if you decide to be rude right in that moment. So how you respond matters. What I like to suggest, and number one, is you use the question, "Did you mean?" And you insert different ways to respond. For example, "Did you mean for that to sound rude?" "Did you mean to embarrass me?" "Did you mean to upset me?" When you say, "Did you mean," you give them a chance to clarify. You give them a chance to assess what they just said. It's a question of intent, meaning you wanna find out, what was your intent in saying that? What, what were you trying to achieve by making that comment? And so when you say things that are questions of intent, you make them double back on what they said. And often you can avoid an argument altogether because let's assume that this person who made this comment, well, they're not really just... they weren't really trying to be ugly. It came out the wrong way. That's not what they were really trying to say. So when you say, "Did, did you mean to, to embarrass me?" Or, "Did you mean for that to sound offensive or rude?" Nine times out of 10, when you call them to the mat on that kind of question, they'll say, "Oh, no, no, what, what I meant to say was..." "Oh, no, no, no, what I meant to do..." And they try and clarify or they backtrack or they, they further explain, and that makes you look more wise. It looks like you have integrity. It looks like you're the one that's being the bigger person by checking it rather than just assuming their intent on it. And I also want to explain that this works really well with text or email. How many times have you been in a communication with someone and the text just read the wrong way? You ever had somebody just say, "K," or, "Okay"? When y- you all of a sudden just felt like, "Oh, that's just them being dismissive. Th- they're not really taking me seriously," and automatically you just wanna shut them off. You go, "Oh, okay, fine. I don't have to be like that." Easy way to check that is for you to text, "Did you mean for that to be short? Did you mean for that to sound like you're upset?" Often they'll clarify that and say, "No, no, no, no, I, I was just in the middle of something," or, "I was, I was, uh, during an errand, I was making a cup of coffee, and I just wanted to let you know that I got the text." So often you can have this sense of giving grace to other people by just simply asking the question and setting up the phrase, "Did you mean?" It can really put out arguments before they even start. And I also want you to dial in on passive-aggressive comments that are rude. Passive-aggressive comments, as you know, they're not direct, meaning they don't feel comfortable in their personality to say things to your face. Instead, they will say them in a way that's kinda snarky and snide, off to the side, because they don't feel comfortable saying them directly to, to face-to-face. So here's what I mean. Let's assume you're in a conversation with someone, and they make this comment, "I mean, it'd be nice, you know, if somebody cared." And you both know it's aimed towards you, but instead they couch it in terms of, "It'd be nice if somebody cared." How you deal with that is you pull them out of their current environment, meaning you have to make them step back in the conversation, understanding what they just said. So if they were to make that comment, "It would be nice if somebody cared," you respond with a question that checks them, like this: "It sounds like there's more to that. It sounds like there's more to that." In that moment, you're pulling them out, and they go, "Oh, wait, what did I just say?" And you're calling them to the mat in a way that says, "What exactly are you trying to say? Do you understand what you just said? It sounds like there's more to what you're telling me." In other words, "I'm, I'm catching this passive-aggressive behavior, and I'm not just going to let it fly by." Another way to ask is, "It sounds like you're having a, a hard day," or, "It sounds like we need to have a- another discussion," or, "We need to talk a little bit more." Using these phrases like, "It sounds like," "It seems like," and throwing things out there in a way that encourage them to talk more is going to get you a whole lot farther than just saying, "Oh, y- you talking about me? You wish I cared? Let me tell you about..." That's gonna just make it even worse, so instead, you're gonna catch them with questions that say, uh, "It sounds like," or, "It seems like."

Jefferson Fisher 8:39 Now, okay, now my favorite. Number three is to respond with silence, but there is a trick, a technique that I like to do, and that is to count... Well, you don't have to count, but it needs to last four seconds. Four seconds is enough to be defined as a long pause, meaning if somebody were to make a rude comment towards you, you're going to look at them for four seconds. One, two, three, four. Enough to give a look of almost puzzlement, as if you find it curious. And what you're doing in those four seconds is you're saying, "I heard it. I listened to it. I evaluated it, and I have concluded that it is not worthy of a response from me. It's not something I'm even going to entertain. It's not something I'm even going to put back into this world. It is just going to fall aside." A nice, uh, idea that you can have in your mind, a mindset of it, as if you have a desk off to the side. What I talk with my clients is it's a counsel desk. Say you're an attorney, you're standing up, and you have a counsel desk. When somebody gives you something that you don't want and you know it's rude, you take that piece of paper, that's their words, and without even looking on it, you set it to the side on the counsel table, as if you say, "No, I know my truth. I know my presence. I know my purpose here. I'm gonna take what you've just said that I know to be rude 'cause I've listened to it, I heard it, I considered it, I weighed it, and I'm just putting it right here on the counsel table." And that's the best way to handle those rude comments, just nothing but silence.

Jefferson Fisher 10:18 Okay, now we're at, at the portion of the episode where I get to read an email from a follower. Uh, if you're not already signed up, you can sign up there in the show notes for my newsletter. It's a weekly newsletter where I send out a communication to it once a week right to your inbox, short and sweet, typically three points, uh, and I'm gonna read one right now. So this one is from Amy. She's over in Paris. That's awesome. Uh, y'all, y'all should be getting ready for the Olympics, right? The, the Olympics I think are starting, like, in a week. Uh, she says, "Hey, Jefferson. Love your stuff." Thanks, Amy. "I have a problem with a colleague who always emails very short sentences. I try not to take them personally, but I have a tough time with it. Is there something I can do to make her emails not so short?" Amy, totally gotcha. You're not the only one that has this problem. Um, in the business world, we value expedient- expediency, where we like everything to be very fast. We want very quick, short... You have Slack. You have different ways of instant messaging people, so having very short, few-word responses are pretty normal. But I wanna commend you on not taking them personally, because that's, that can go to a very... a, a negative spot, a dark place very quickly. Here's what I want you to do. Like, just what we talked about earlier in this episode, you can use, "Did you mean?" So if you were to reply to something, if she said something very short, and you felt it to be dismissive or you felt it be a negative feeling inside you when you, when you read that, you can always clear it up with a, "Did you mean? Did you mean for that to sound short?" Question mark, and send that. What you don't want to do, what I don't want you to do, is start assuming, is to start assuming the intent. Then you start to just have a, an email that is four sentences, six sentences long, where you all of a sudden have a paragraph where you're trying to just assume and guess what this person meant, or you're assuming a certain tone, and so you're sending it back to this person in a negative light. Don't do that. Just very quickly say, "Did you mean for that to sound short?" It shou- it should be cleared up pretty quickly. Another thing that you can do that it's gonna depend on your relationship with this person is to ask them for more context. "Can you go further? Can you go a little deeper into that?" Ask those questions, those probing questions that make them, uh, ask, give you more information. Just like, "Can I have some more context with that?" Question mark. You don't need something, uh, long and detailed to say, "Hey, I am so sorry," which is over-apologizing, right? Like we talked about in the prior episode. Instead of saying, "Hey, I'm so sorry. Um, I'm not really sure exactly what you're saying. I wonder if you're asking this. Are you asking that?" That's too much. Just keep it short, to the point. You got this, Amy. Okay, I got time for another one. This one is from Paul in Arizona. Paul says, "Hey, Jefferson, love your stuff, man." Thanks, Paul. Appreciate it. "I have a mother that likes to make rude comments under her breath that are kind of passive aggressive a lot of the times at family functions. I'm not sure how best to handle it. What do you suggest?" Oh, Paul. Sorry about that. That's, um, that's tricky. Mamas are tricky. A lot of emotion, a lot of history, a lot of feelings wrapped up in that. Here's what I can tell you. Uh, if this is a mama that loves you, which I'm assuming that it is, uh, you wanna make sure that whatever you say is kind back. So when you're ugly to somebody and when you're rude, often what it does, uh, like we discussed, is make them jump. So if you say something rude, well, now she feels like she's justified in saying something a little bit more direct that's not so under her breath. And you have to be also careful of the context. You have family around, maybe other kids around, so you wanna be careful of that. Real quick way, if she's making these passive aggressive comments, is that rule number two, step number two, where you get to say, "There sounds like there's more to that, Mom. Mom, it sounds like there's more to what you're saying." Or ask the question, "Is there more to what you're saying?" When you're asking that question, "Is there more?" it's you not just taking her comment as something offensive for you to al- automatically get defensive about. Instead, you're taking a moment to be curious about what she said and diving deeper into, "I want to know more, because I can tell this is coming from a place that is unresolved. I can tell this is coming from a place that's, that's deeper than what we're talking about." So when you have that moment, just check her by bringing her out of that environment and say, "It sounds like we, there's something, that else that we need to discuss." And often that will take care of it altogether. But bottom line is, depending on the context, and of course because it's your mother, uh, you wanna make sure that you approach a situation with a lot of grace and a lot of patience. So what are we gonna do the next time that someone makes a comment that is rude towards you? All right. Number one, you're gonna remember the, "Did you mean?" The, "Did you mean for that to sound rude? Did you mean for that to hurt my feelings?" You're gonna find a way to, to be a mirror so that they can hear what they've said and see if they're gonna clarify it and fix it, and that will often remove the argument. You can also, when we're talking about number two, passive aggressive comments, check them by pulling them out of their current environment to say, "It seems like," or, "It sounds like." "It sounds like you're having a hard day. It seems like there's more to what you're saying." Getting them to come to, bring to light what they're really trying to say. And number three, of course anybody can do it, and that's to say nothing. Count in your head four seconds and then continue on with your day. And that's how to handle rude comments.

Jefferson Fisher 16:01 On today's episode, it is all about what to say when someone belittles you, when they try to say something to put you down, to hurt you. What do you say, and how do you make sure that your own integrity stays intact? When somebody is belittling you, the first thing that I want you to do is, number one, make them say it again. That's right. I want you to make them say it again. That means you're going to tell them, "I need you to say that again. I need you to repeat that." When you make them say it again, they don't get that hit of dopamine that they're looking for. When somebody's belittling you to put you down, they're looking for that spike, uh, to get them going, to have that feeling of control. We're not going to give them that. So we're gonna talk about those strategies. Number two, if they belittle you and y- you ask them to say it again, then you're going to give them questions of intent. Questions of intent. Those are questions that ask them to have them search into the intent of why they're asking or why they're saying what they're saying. For example, "Did you intend to embarrass me? Did you want that to hurt me?" Again, we are withholding that hit of dopamine. And number three, if they have responses or they're gonna keep on going, and if they're not a person that you feel safe around, number three, you just say nothing at all. You let your silence be your response, because often when you say nothing at all, it's the most powerful move you can make.

Jefferson Fisher 17:27 So one time I had a, a case, this was probably about two years ago, and I am training a client. And by the way, I train almost every client that I have in conflict advice, how to communicate in conflict, how to say things in a way that's gonna protect them. Because when they go, when I present them for cross-examination at trial or a deposition, in many ways I'm handing them off for somebody else to try to hurt their credibility, for somebody else to attack them. Those are the opposing attorneys. It sh- comes, it just comes part of the job. And what I did with this particular person was train her on when somebody belittles you. If they, other side, if, which I knew the other attorney was, he was very critical- He was somebody that, uh, was, you know, the type of people that just love to throw bombs in conversations just to aggravate you? It was very much like that. He was... I knew he was gonna wanna say something to upset her. He was gonna try to say something to cause a reaction. And so what I trained her in is making sure that she gets, uh, him to repeat whatever he said that was ugly in some way. And she, she seemed to understand it. We kind of practiced it a few times, but then, then on the day of the deposition, she made me so proud. So other attorney was asking her questions, and he made a snide little comment. Most people in that situation, when somebody gives you a, a belittling comment, you wanna take it, right? You wanna take off with it and challenge them and start getting ugly with them. She didn't do that. Instead, what she did was she asked him, "Did you say that to embarrass me?" She goes, "Uh, I'm sorry, did you, did you say that to embarrass me?" Without... I mean, just immediately, this other attorney goes, "Oh, no, no, no. I mean, no, I didn't mean to say that." And he totally backtracked in real time. I mean, I could not... I couldn't have wiped the grin off my face. All she asked was, "Did you intend to embarrass me?" These little tips really, really work. Now, I wanna go back to number one, and that is you ask them to repeat the belittling thing that they said. I know that sounds counterintuitive. You're gonna think, "Jefferson, what are you, what are you talking about? I'm gonna ha- I'm gonna have them repeat the, the belittling thing? I'm gonna make them say it again? I have to hear it twice?" Yes. Yes, and let me tell you why. When somebody makes a belittling comment, they are wanting that reaction out of you. All right? They are wanting some kind of response. When they say something to, um, hurt you, they, they... You're giving them r- that reaction by being hurt, by getting upset, by huffing and puffing, throwing something back, by yelling at them. That's what they want. Often, when you ask them, "I need you to repeat that. I need you to say that again," they won't do it. They can't do it, or they'll backtrack because they realize, "Oh, wait, they're not doing what I want them to do. They're not taking the bait." And so often they can't repeat it that second time, or they'll say it differently than they did. They'll, they'll rephrase their words. If by chance that they do say it again, now you know what you're dealing with, and that goes to number two. You ask questions of intent, and this can be used from the workplace to home to kids who are being bullied in some way. When you ask somebody, "Did you intend, did you intend, did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend for that to upset me? Did you intend to hurt me?" When you ask those questions, what it does is instead of the spotlight being on you and your behavior and how you're going to respond to that belittling comment, it goes back to them. Now the, the spotlight flips. It flips, and they have to ask themself these questions like a mirror. "Why, why did I, why did I say that? Why did I do that?" They're forced to now answer the intent behind, the purpose behind their hurtful words. And so often when that happens, the other person will apologize or rephrase and say, "I didn't, I didn't mean it that way," or they'll move on. What the, the biggest key to this is you're not going anywhere. You are showing that you're standing your ground. You're not saying anything rude. You're not putting your integrity on the line. You're just asking them to see themselves by just saying, "Why did you do this? Did you intend to hurt me? Did you intend for that to upset me?" Because what you're telling them is, "Whatever you meant to do, it's not having that effect. Whatever you meant for that to be, you're not getting it." And they'll backtrack from it. Number three, if by chance they respond and say, "Yeah, I did mean to hurt you. Yeah. Yeah, I did mean for that to embarrass you," understand that's not somebody you wanna be around, right? That's not somebody you want in your life. But the best thing that you can do often in then, in those situations is say nothing. Now, I don't mean that to say I'm not equipping you with any tools and just be a, you know, a, a wallflower, somebody just to be laid over. No. What I'm saying is often silence, when you just look at them, it says, "I don't have to respond to anything that you said. It's not having that effect." And then their, their words ring hollow because there's... It just... N- nothing for them to, their words to stick onto. It's just nothing but an echo. And that's how you're gonna have something to where you're gonna be more powerful every single time.

Jefferson Fisher 22:56 So let's run through a quick example. All right? Let's assume maybe you're at work in a team meeting or something, and you make a, a suggestion, and somebody makes a belittling comment. They say, "Nobody asked you," or, "Nobody cares." All right? Have you heard that before where somebody says, "Did I ask?" Or, uh, "Nobody cares. Nobody asked you." When you hear that, let's go number one, make them say it again. That means you're going to ask, "Can you repeat that?" Or, "Say that again for me. Say that again for me." They're gonna say, "Nobody asked you," if, if they actually have the guts to repeat it. Number two, gonna go to a question of intent like, "Do you say that to make me feel less? Do you make... Do you say that to make me feel small? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend to dismiss my ideas? Do you say that to dismiss my ideas?" You see how you're taking what you perceive their action to be doing, and you reflect it back on them like a mirror. "Did you intend for that to hurt my feelings?" When you say that, they then have the spotlight all on them. They have the floor to either correct the issue, accept the issue and apologize, or double down on it. And whatever they say... Now, if they apologize, it's, it's up to you if you wanna accept that apology, if it, if it's in a genuine apology, but if they double down on it, then don't feel the need to go back at them. Don't feel the need to say anything ugly. You just let it go silent. Because if other people are around, they're gonna be paying attention to your integrity. Other people are gonna be paying attention to how you're going to respond, and the person who is more emotionally mature every single time is the person who feels like they don't have to respond to disrespect. They don't have to respond to these things that are belittling or beneath them in some way, that you have this threshold of respect before you respond to these kind of things. All right. We're at the part of the episode where I get to read a question from a follower. It's one of my favorite parts of the episode. If you're not part of my weekly newsletter, I send out an email once a week right to your inbox, and those who are part of the newsletter are able to email me questions. So that's where I get all these from. This one is from Carol. She's in Denmark. Let me pull it up. Carol says, "Hey, Jefferson. I love all of your advice." Thank you, Carol. "I have an issue with somebody at work. This is a colleague or coworker of mine, and he likes to compare me to different things. For example, he would say, 'Not bad for an old lady,' or, 'Not bad for a blank.'" I'm guessing this is like comparing you to something else. "These are things that really bother me, and I w- I like to try and wave them off, downplay them, but sometimes when I'm home alone, they really, really get under my skin. What do you suggest?" Carol, I'm so sorry that that, that happens. Um, I don't like that at all. I need to meet this person. The way you described it, it was a, a male coworker, and I don't wanna get into the differences on, on men, women, but what I can tell you is, here are some basics that I want you to follow. Number one, Carol, you stay as calm as possible. Don't wave this off. Don't laugh it off. Absolutely not. Because when you laugh it off or you act like it's not a big deal, it, it does nothing to stop them from doing it again. They will continue to do it. This person will continue to say these belittling things, and that's often a, uh, a very belittling tactic is when somebody compares you to things. Uh, not bad for an ugly person. Not bad for somebody who's old and tired. Not bad for somebody who's X, Y, and Z. Or they might say, "You're s- you're so annoying. You're such an idiot." Um, you know, "You're not, not bad for the, uh, not the sharpest tool in the shed" kind of thing. These little things that they think are funny in that moment, and most likely, he's doing it in front of other people, trying to get some kind of laugh, trying to get attention. I want you to stop all of that by remaining calm, like we talked about. Number one, remain completely calm about it, and don't laugh it off. Number two, ask him a question. I, I, and I'm... This is the question: "Did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to hurt me?" Make him question the purpose of why he's asking that. "Did you say that because you thought it was funny? Did you say that to get a laugh?" You can call this kind of behavior out very quickly by asking these questions of intent, like we talked about earlier in the episode. If that doesn't feel comfortable to you, Carol, you can always ask him to repeat that. So if he were to say something like, "You know what? That's not, not too bad for an old lady." I, um... He might not have said that in a way to be hurtful, but it's, man, it certainly can feel that way. And if you ask him to repeat it, say, "Say that again for me. I need you to say that again." All right? Man, he, he, he might feel that and go, "Oof, I can tell it's..." He's not gonna wanna say that again. Or if you've asked, "I need you to say that again slower for me," that, that means you're asking him to say, "Not bad for an old lady." He's probably never going to say that because it's gonna expose him. It's gonna put him too far out on a ledge. People don't like to feel like they're exposed in their bad behavior. That's what repeating, asking them to repeat it does. That's what asking them these questions of intent does. When they, um, when they go off on a ledge, they feel like, "Oh, everybody's listening to me. Everybody can tell." And when they feel that way, they hide. They hide because they know at that point they've gone too far. They've gone too far, Carol. So when that happens, don't smile. Don't laugh it off. Don't wave it off. Don't try and be, uh, funny with it. I want you to just calmly ask the question, "Did you say that to embarrass me?" And just let that rest. Give it that silence. Don't feel like you have to rush. Don't let it bother you. Don't let it get you upset, 'cause that's what he wants. To be able to say, "Did you, did you say that to... because you thought it was funny?" And just h- just let that hover right there in the air and see how he responds. Most likely, the result you're going to get, Carol, is he's not going to do that again. And at the end of the day, what you have demonstrated and shown him without even saying it is that you're the type of person that can stand your ground. You're the type of person that is not going to be pushed over. All right? You got it.

Jefferson Fisher 29:56 Somebody just told you something, but you know it's a lie. If you call it out, well, that's just gonna be worse. They're gonna double down on it. But if you leave it alone, well, that can be just as bad. On today's episode, it's all about how to respond to a liar. When somebody tells you something that you know to be a lie, number one, take a pause and say, "I need to come back to this conversation I need to come back to this conversation. If they're telling you the truth, no problem. They're gonna say, "Okay, take your time." But if they're not telling the truth, oh, they're not gonna like it because it's telling them that you're not buying it. They're gonna have this big overreaction and say things like, "Well, what, what do you think happened?" Or, "What, you think I'm lying?" They're gonna try and reconstruct the narrative while you're talking. Number two, you can also say, "Something feels off." That something feels off. If they're telling the truth, they're not gonna have any problem with it. They're gonna try and work through it and say, "Well, what, what feels off? Let's talk, let's talk about it." But if they're not, oh, they're gonna just spiral. They're going to try and actually gaslight you and challenge your sense of reality and say things like, "You are literally insane right now," or, "Do you know what, what you even sound like? You're crazy." Number three, you can say nothing at all. 10 to 15 seconds of silence, and in that silence, liars actually start to talk to themselves. They'll start to say things like, "What, what, what are you, what, what are you worried about? That, that's not even me. You know, why, why would I even say something that's, that's not the truth?" And they'll start to just falter and flip and get really defensive, and that's your sign that you're dealing with a liar. Now, I wanna make sure and tell you that this is not a one-size-fits-all. There are personalities, people who may be neurodivergent or people who are more prone to over-explaining things or needing to elaborate on things that make them sound like they may not be telling the truth or that they may be lying or they're trying to construct things in a certain way.

Jefferson Fisher 31:52 That's not the indicator. I don't want you to think that people who have to talk a lot necessarily are lying to you. The key, the indicator that I like to see or that I look for is a big overreaction where we might be talking at a level three, and as soon as I may try to challenge a little bit of the fact to say, "That doesn't seem to match up to me. Something feels off," they go all the way to, to 12, where all of a sudden they're highly defensive. They are on the attack. They're starting to say things that are ugly. They're starting to challenge in a way that it is not meshing with the level of a three that we were previously talking at. So when you see this big heightened overreaction followed by major defensiveness, that's your indication that, ah, I need to trust my gut here. I need to listen to myself, uh, not just what they're saying, but really w- w- what my sense is because every one of us, you and I and everybody, have a sixth sense about us when we can tell somebody is not telling the truth, somebody is not being entirely genuine. So I don't want you to think that just because they're elaborating or over-explaining, they're trying to pull one over on you. Everybody has different ways, and you're gonna know based upon the personality and specifically what you're talking about. Maybe you're talking about something in a relationship, maybe some kind of fact that you know to be true, and they're trying to push you another way. Just be careful about it and understand that one size does not fit all. One thing about liars is that they don't like delay. Whenever you add distance between what they said and when you believe or don't believe what they said, they just twist in the wind. They hate it because it tells them that you are not taking the bait. They want that immediate reaction. They want you to just continue to go along as if everything they said is fine. They want to be a smooth liar. They want everything to be just fine for you to take their story, but the more suspicious you are, the more they will push back at you. Understand that those who tell the truth, they really have no problem with it. You take all the time you need. I know my truth is my truth. So let's put it in a innocent e- example. Let's say you ask me, you say, "Jefferson, what did you eat for breakfast this morning?" And I said, "Oatmeal." And they go, "I don't, I don't, I don't know about that. Are you lying to me?" I say, "No." And the more defensive they got, the less I'm gonna get upset about it because I know I'm telling the truth. I know I, I... what I ate. You need to take a break from the conversation. You need to think about something. Something feels off to you. Okay, let's talk about it. Why does it feel off? But I know what I did. I don't have to hide anything. But if I'm telling a lie, well, then I'm gonna get more defensive that you're not buying it. So often when people are delaying that conversation, the more liars are gonna twist off. Just be prepared for that. While I like to start off with number one of this is something that I need to come back to, when you say, "I need to come back to this conversation," or, "I need to think about this," it's delaying it. You're saying, "Mm, okay, I hear you. I need to do some thought on my own, process this, and then come back." In other words, I need to do some research. Liars don't like you to do research. They want you to just buy exactly what they said. So understand that that is something that is gonna be part of that package when you say, "I need some time to think about this." And it also empowers you to say, "Look, I, I know what I heard, but I also know what I know. I know my facts, so I'm gonna take some time with this, and I'm gonna think things out." That's the way to respond in those situations. Another reason that I like number two, and that is something feels off, that is really easy for you to just say, "Something feels off." They're gonna say, "What's, what's wrong?" You go, "Something, something feels off." People who are telling the truth have no problem talking with you through it. "Okay, just let's, let's talk about it. What, what feels off? Let's talk." People who are liars don't wanna talk. They don't wanna talk. They just want you to believe. They want you to take it hook, line, and sinker, so they will have this big reaction. Don't be afraid and when, if in that moment they try to what they call gaslight you or try to say that you're, attack your character, they attack you personally and say, "You're crazy. You're insane. Do you know how literally insane you sound right now?" Don't take that kind of bait. That's all it is, is just bait. They're gonna try and get a rise out of you because the more upset that these people can make you- People with toxic traits or narcissistic tendencies, they're trying to get a rise out of you to get you more upset, and now you're fighting about the lie, and you know what they're gonna do? They're gonna keep going, keep going, all the way to a level 12, and then they'll flip on you. They'll flip and say, "I don't know why you're always attacking me. You know, you never believe me. You remember what you did four months ago?" Something that they bring up the past, and all of a sudden they're pointing it out that they're the victim, and you're the one that's the attacker or the offender just not believing them and never understanding them, and you don't really get them. And now all of a sudden, you feel like you're in a position where they're wanting some kind of apology, and this is just another instance. Stay away from that. Listen to me. Stay away from that. When you add silence and add delay, even 10, 15 seconds of silence makes a huge difference when it comes to handling somebody who's a liar. Because if you were to say... If you were to point out right away, "That's a lie. You're a liar," you think they're gonna s- go, "Yep, you're right. Ah, dang. You got me. Ah, you're so good. You got me"? Absolutely not. They're gonna say, "What? No, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm a liar? Oh, yeah, me? What about you?" And all of a sudden it's just gonna get worse. They'll double down on it, and you're gonna have to peel back layer upon layer. But if you just give the silence, they will have that conversation for you. They will have the conversation in their head, "Oh, my gosh. They're not buying. Okay, I need to, I need to tweak. I need to pivot. I need to say something else, or I need to a little bit more reveal the truth" without you having to say a thing. Now, that, that is true control. I'm

Jefferson Fisher 37:57 gonna share a story real quick with you. When I was... Uh, probably about three years ago, I had a case, and often in car wrecks, a major issue is texting while driving, as you can imagine. Now, people don't like admitting that they're texting while driving. Everybody does it, and it's, it's terrible. It's a major, major cause of commercial and personal auto case accidents. So a, a part of the question generally in a deposition is whether somebody was texting. Well, I was talking to this guy, taking his deposition. He was on the other side of me, and I asked him, I said, "You were... Were, were you texting while driving?" Automatically said, "No. No, I, I never text while I drive." Problem number one, he just said, "I never." Never is an absolute, so if you're gonna use an absolute, it... If you're gonna say never, it better be never. So first thing he said was, "I never text while I drive." Well, here's the thing. I already had his cellphone records. I had all of his mobile records. You don't know what people are texting. You just can see the transmission of when they send a text and when it was received. I already had all that c- because his attorney gave it to me. It's part of the trial. So I already know I have that, but I don't bring it up right away. Instead, I just give about 10 seconds of nothing. 10 seconds of nothing. And I just kinda looked around the room, looked at him for a second, and in that moment, within not even 10 seconds, he said, "Well, I mean, I... You know, I, I... Sometimes I do, but most, most of the time I don't." Right there, okay? He just what they call in Texas crawfished. In the South meaning s- you're, you're backing up. You're backing up what, what you just said. You're actually, uh, going back on it, saying, "Well," I mean, he went from, "I always" or "I never" to, which is an absolute, to, "Well, I mean, I, I sometimes do, but I wasn't doing it right then." All I did was repeat his lie. I just repeated it. I said, "You never text while you drive." All of a sudden he started like, "Well, I mean, I mean, I, I, I, I, I mean, sometimes I do. Sometimes I do." And I gave it a little bit more time, and then I followed it up with, "You were texting your coworker that day, weren't you?" At that point, he was so far off the ledge that you're inviting him to come back, and at that point he was just kind of relieved. He's like, "Yeah, I, I think I, I think I was. Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure that I was." And at, at that point I just tweak it a little bit more. "You were. It's not a you think you were. You were." "Yes, I, I was." Boom, right then. I don't have to call him out as a liar. I don't have to have this big ordeal. I don't have to try and hurt his credibility in a harmful way. I can still be respectful and give him just a chance to walk off the plank. Often just giving that a moment of silence and letting them hear their thoughts and saying, "Nobody in this room is believing this right now." They understand that all their feet, uh, the floor underneath them, the carpet underneath them just got pulled. Uh, they have nothing else to stand on, and they'll go back to safety because they know that their lie is not being taken.

Jefferson Fisher 41:02 Now we're at the point of the podcast where I get to read a question from a follower. If you're not already part of my newsletter, I send a communication tip once a week right to your inbox where you can ask me questions and I get to respond to it. It's a lot of fun for me, and I always pull one so I can talk about it in the podcast. This one is from April. April is in Nashville, Tennessee. "Jefferson, I love your stuff so much." Thank you, April. "I have an issue. Whenever I'm trying to explain something, sometimes I try to t- I am elaborating too much where I'm trying to overexplain, but some people feel like I am telling a lie when I'm really not. I'm just trying to clarify. Can you help give me some guidance there?" April, I... You're not the only one. All right? That's the first thing is you're not the only one. There are a lot of people who feel like they just need to get it all out. They just need to get it all out, but sometimes the more that you say, the more it looks like you're trying to hide the truth. Let me tell you the difference, all right? It's when you're getting to the point. Often, if, if I were gonna ask you a question that is generally a yes or no question, oh, you know, w- uh, or something that is a very clear fact like, "What time did you get home last night?" Or, "Did you stop by the store yesterday?" These are very clear things. Did y- Is it a yes or a no? Do you have a time or do you not have a time? Often people look like they're lying when they don't say that yes or no or that fact right out of the gate. Instead, they leave it for the very end. So if I were gonna ask you, you know, "Did you go to the store yesterday?" Which is a yes or no, they'll go, "Well, I mean, it's, it, uh, well, I, I mean..." And they'll start talking about, "Well, first I went here and then I went there," and they lay out this timeline. There are a lot of people who, uh, they will have to say a timeline first. Like, "Well, I went here, then you said that, and then I did this." And they need to construct it in a certain way to get it all out. There's nothing wrong with that. You just have to be careful to make sure that they're, when somebody's giving you that timeframe, they're not reconstructing it in a way that does not match what you know of the facts. But what causes the problem, April, is when you wait till the very end to say that yes or a no. If I ask you what time it is, and you start talking about something else, and at the whole point I'm thinking, "Why aren't you answering my question? Why aren't you answering my question?" You're just trying to explain. What I hear is you're trying to delay and you're trying to hide. What can eliminate that is when you give the, the answer, your point, right out of the gate, and then say, "Can I explain?" Period. "Did you go to the store yesterday?" "Yes, I did. Can I share with you something else?" All right? Th- that's gonna give you a whole lot more room to, to say, "I'd like to... I, I need to get some stuff off my chest." Or there's sometimes a question isn't a yes or a no. Lots of times my clients get, uh, in a deposition, they get asked questions, and what I train them on is some questions aren't a yes or a no. They're not black and white. But attorneys sometimes will try and corner them, and some people try to corner you into certain conversations. Instead, you just answer with, "That's not a yes or no question for me. That question can't be answered in a yes or a no." That's what I teach them. "I can't answer that question in a yes or a no. Can I explain?" Or, "I'm happy to explain," and, "I'm happy to share some more on it." So I don't want you to feel pressured that just because you need to explain things, it means that you're not telling the truth. That's not, that's not what that means. All that means is you just need to rearrange the structure of your sentences. Give the, the point at the very beginning, then explain, rather than first thing out of your mouth is, "Let me explain." As soon as you say that first without giving the point, so if I ask you a question and you say, "Let me explain," people go, "Oh, great. You're not gonna give me the answer. You're hiding the answer. You're delaying the answer." And it makes you look more like you're not telling the truth. So what I would encourage you to do is try to say the yes or no, the answer, direct answer, up front, and then follow up with an explanation that supports that answer, not the other way around.

Jefferson Fisher 45:02 Thank you for listening to The Jefferson Fisher Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I'm gonna ask you to follow it, and if you would, just leave a review. Today, we learned that when you're dealing with a liar, one of the best things to say is, "I need to come back to this conversation." Number one, "I need to come back to this conversation." Number two, you can say something like, "That sounds off," or, "That feels off." Anything that says, "This doesn't feel like the norm. Something doesn't feel right about this." And number three, if you need to, just say nothing at all. Silence is often the best tool for liars to spin out of control and reveal that they weren't telling you the truth. And as always, you can try that and follow me.