The Jefferson Fisher PodcastThe Wrong (and Right) Way to Apologize ft. Cory Asbury
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:42
Free live class announcement + setting up a conversation about public conflict and communication
Jefferson opens with a brief promo for an upcoming free live class and communication course. He then tees up the episode by asking Cory Asbury about a public conflict and what he has had to unlearn about communication, especially in marriage.
- •Promo: free live class and course announcement (date/time and link)
- •Transition into the episode’s theme: conflict, repair, and communication
- •Jefferson frames the discussion around a public disagreement and lessons learned
- •Focus begins on what Cory has had to unlearn in close relationships
- 0:42 – 2:37
Early marriage reality check: selfishness, ego, and the urge to ‘win’ arguments
Cory describes the first year(s) of marriage as extremely difficult, largely due to selfishness and a win-at-all-costs approach in arguments. A mentor reframes conflict as ‘winning their heart’ rather than winning the debate.
- •First year of marriage felt precarious and conflict-heavy
- •Marriage exposes self-centeredness and ego
- •Cory’s default: pursue victory in arguments
- •Key reframe: prioritize winning your spouse’s heart
- •Practice: quickly own what you can and apologize first
- 2:37 – 4:31
Relearning communication styles: from yelling culture to gentleness and humility
Cory contrasts his upbringing in a loud, combative household with his wife’s conflict-avoidant family culture. Their mismatch forced Cory to develop gentleness and to meet his wife where she is rather than demanding she become more confrontational.
- •Cory’s family normalized yelling and intensity
- •Wife’s family hid conflict, creating a ‘never fight’ illusion
- •Mismatch created fear for her and normalcy for him
- •Early years included pressure for her to ‘hash it out’ his way
- •Long-term change required humility and learning tenderness
- 4:31 – 5:24
Marriage principle: prioritize your partner’s comfort over your convenience
Jefferson shares a guiding marriage principle that checks selfish impulses: choose the other person’s comfort even when inconvenient. Cory affirms the idea as a practical path toward healthier conflict and connection.
- •Marriage friction often reveals instinctive self-focus
- •Letting go of ‘my convenience’ reduces selfish reactions
- •Choosing a spouse’s comfort is a daily discipline
- •This mindset supports de-escalation and healthier repair
- 5:24 – 7:25
Five kids and thinner margins: scheduling practical talks and ‘heart checks’
Parenting (especially with five kids across ages) makes communication more complex and demands intentional structure. Cory describes calendaring conversations for logistics and for emotional connection to avoid drifting into roommate-like coexistence.
- •Kids reduce time, energy, and relationship margin
- •Intentionality becomes essential rather than optional
- •Separate conversations: practical logistics vs. emotional/relational check-ins
- •Date nights and post-bedtime talks protect connection
- •Risk if neglected: losing intimacy after kids leave home
- 7:25 – 12:07
Creative work vs. family presence: ‘home but not present’ and naming expectations
Jefferson asks how Cory balances songwriting/touring demands with family life. Cory explains the tension of working from home—being physically present but not available—and the need to clearly define protected work blocks while staying relationally connected.
- •Creative work requires uninterrupted mental space
- •Work-from-home ambiguity creates conflict: ‘you’re home, but are you home?’
- •Practical boundary: define work hours and protect them as real work time
- •Ongoing question: separate workspace outside the home vs. staying at home
- •Jefferson’s takeaway: there’s no perfect path—only talking about it prevents resentment
- 12:07 – 16:12
Modeling repair for kids: apologizing, repentance, and breaking generational patterns
Jefferson asks about the importance of children witnessing repair between parents and toward them. Cory shares that seeing a father repent and apologize—something absent in his childhood—has produced the most fruit in his family and helps break generational trauma.
- •Repair modeled at home teaches kids how to handle conflict
- •Cory didn’t see apologies from his dad growing up
- •Cory notices repeating patterns (overreacting, harshness) and corrects course
- •Returning to a child with humility and an apology builds trust
- •Goal: reduce long-term emotional baggage by addressing harm quickly
- 16:12 – 19:07
What ‘repent’ means and why it’s the foundation of a real apology
Cory defines repentance as a decisive turn—a 180-degree change—rooted in awareness, desire, and action. Jefferson connects this directly to apology: not only acknowledging harm but also naming future change.
- •Repentance: recognize wrong direction and turn away from it
- •Human weakness means failure may recur, but intention matters
- •Jefferson’s framework: awareness → desire to change → action
- •Apology isn’t only ‘sorry’; it includes ‘next time I will…’
- •Repentance language reinforces accountability and transformation
- 19:07 – 26:18
Public controversy ‘Reckless Love’: defending conviction without becoming defensive
Cory explains how he navigated backlash over the word ‘reckless’ in his song by grounding himself in conviction (what he believes and has lived) and identity (being ‘unoffendable’ in Christ). He describes refusing to argue online and instead offering a one-time pastoral explanation.
- •Conviction comes from lived experience and clarity of belief
- •Identity stabilizes the emotional response to criticism
- •Temptation: clap back at commenters, especially hypocritical or cruel ones
- •Strategy: explain intent once, avoid comment wars and DMs
- •Reframe: critics often miss poetic meaning and experiential faith
- 26:18 – 34:30
Becoming ‘unoffendable’: whose opinion counts, boundaries, and personality wiring
Cory and Jefferson unpack unoffendability as knowing who has the right to hold meaningful influence over you. They discuss how personality traits, faith identity, and boundaries—especially online—help prevent being emotionally hijacked by strangers’ opinions.
- •Cory admits he still gets offended; unoffendable is the goal
- •Personality factor: less concern for strangers’ opinions, more for close relationships
- •Faith illustration: Jesus’ identity in the wilderness resists the accuser
- •Key line: knowing who has the right to have an opinion of you
- •Internet boundary-setting would reduce reactive conflict at scale
- 34:30 – 36:57
Sponsor break + pivot to a public disagreement with Forrest Frank and lessons in repair
After a sponsor segment, Jefferson pivots to a highly public disagreement involving Cory and artist Forrest Frank. He frames the story as a case study in ownership, apology, and how hard conversations can produce healing beyond the two people involved.
- •Sponsor segment (Tiny Health) and transition back to the episode
- •Jefferson sets up Forrest Frank story as a learning example
- •Focus on ownership, apology, and ‘new direction’ after conflict
- •Promise to extract communication lessons from the incident
- 36:57 – 44:22
Cynicism, satire, and the viral ‘vasectomy rap’: how a joke became a dogpile
Cory describes being jaded and publicly sarcastic about church culture and the worship industry. He joins an internet trend of poking fun at Forrest’s ‘God’s Got My Back’ moment by posting a humorous vasectomy-themed song—only to discover it fueled real hostility in comments.
- •Cory’s mindset: frustrated, cynical, and quick to ‘fix’ things publicly
- •Satire as a shortcut to make a point—often with mean-spirited undertones
- •Context: Forrest’s injury video and viral song ‘God’s Got My Back’
- •Cory posts a comedic response that explodes in views
- •Unintended outcome: audience interprets it as malicious, intensifying harassment
- 44:22 – 52:11
Forrest’s vulnerable feedback (‘That hurt’) and Cory’s choice to own it publicly
Forrest responds with honesty about the trauma surrounding his injury and how Cory’s post affected him. Cory respects the vulnerability and chooses humility over doubling down, leading to a public repair process designed to model reconciliation for others.
- •Forrest explains the injury was traumatic for his family, not comedic
- •Key moment: Forrest names emotional impact directly—‘that hurt’
- •Cory contrasts this with another conflict where someone dismissed their spouse’s feelings
- •Decision point: Cory could justify or minimize, but chooses accountability
- •They plan a public exchange to demonstrate repair and healing
- 52:11 – 57:49
Public reconciliation ripple effects: ‘Misunderstood,’ renewed calling, and returning to the table
Cory recounts how the public apology and collaborative response generated widespread healing—people reached out to repair relationships in their own lives. He describes spending time with Forrest, experiencing personal restoration, and returning to his core identity and calling as a worshiper.
- •Public repair inspired others to reconcile with pastors, family, and friends
- •Collaboration produced the song ‘Misunderstood’
- •Extended time together deepened healing and softened Cory’s cynicism
- •Cory uses the Hagar story as a metaphor: God sees pain but calls you back to your assignment
- •Outcome: renewed purpose, reduced offense, and re-commitment to his calling
- 57:49 – 1:05:36
What to do when you’re wrong: humility, owning your part, and letting ego die
After another sponsor break, Jefferson asks directly what Cory learned about responding when in the wrong. Cory emphasizes humility as the consistent path forward, grounded in self-awareness, ownership, and a refusal to protect ego through excuses.
- •Humility ‘wins’ relationships; pride invites resistance and resentment
- •Cory’s ‘win’ wiring traces back to childhood insecurity and criticism
- •Practice: search your heart and own what you can—don’t invent excuses
- •Ask motive: excuses are usually about saving face and self-preservation
- •Reframe: losing isn’t the end; it can become the doorway to growth and repair
- 1:05:36 – 1:09:28
Accepting losses and practicing self-grace: dropping self-flogging for a healthier inner life
The conversation closes on the power of accepting imperfection and extending compassion inward, similar to how a parent treats a child who makes mistakes. Cory describes shifting from harsh self-criticism to self-acceptance, reducing anxiety and making repair with others easier.
- •Chronic ‘must win’ thinking fuels shame and internal criticism
- •Accepting you’ll be wrong sometimes enables calmer accountability
- •Model: treat yourself with the grace you’d offer your child
- •Self-compassion reduces defensiveness and supports better apologies
- •Closing gratitude and wrap-up of lessons on repair and communication
