Joe Rogan Experience #1486 - Honey Honey

Joe Rogan 0:00 Uh...

Suzanne Santo 0:01 What if we, like, wrote you a new theme song? What if we just, like, started pitching theme songs right now?

Joe Rogan 0:05 You could do that.

Suzanne Santo 0:05 Really?

Joe Rogan 0:06 Yeah, I might do some fucking do that.

Ben Jaffe 0:07 Cool. Yeah, Ben. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:07 We're rolling. We're, we're actually-

Ben Jaffe 0:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:09 We're rolling right now.

Suzanne Santo 0:10 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 0:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:11 Honey, honey.

Suzanne Santo 0:11 Great.

Ben Jaffe 0:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Um, how did the band get back together? 'Cause it... Literally, the band is back together. Like, you know that expression you say with your friends? "Bro, the band's back together."

Ben Jaffe 0:19 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:19 The band-

Suzanne Santo 0:19 We haven't even said that shit yet.

Ben Jaffe 0:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:21 The band's back together. (fingers snapping)

Ben Jaffe 0:23 Bam.

Joe Rogan 0:23 The band's back together.

Ben Jaffe 0:23 I said bam? Oh, fuck. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 0:24 The band, the band's back together.

Joe Rogan 0:26 The band is back together. You're saying bam?

Ben Jaffe 0:26 I know.

Joe Rogan 0:27 I say bam all the time.

Ben Jaffe 0:27 I just... I'd rather say, like, titties or (laughs) something-

Joe Rogan 0:30 Um, I'm a bam guy.

Ben Jaffe 0:31 Okay, bam's good.

Joe Rogan 0:31 I say bam. Bam.

Ben Jaffe 0:32 Bam's good.

Suzanne Santo 0:32 Yep.

Ben Jaffe 0:33 Yeah. So, band's back together. Started via COVID.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Oh.

Ben Jaffe 0:38 We were, we were kind of mad at each other.

Suzanne Santo 0:39 It is what binds us.

Ben Jaffe 0:40 Yeah, we were a little mad at each other.

Joe Rogan 0:41 Viruses keep you together.

Suzanne Santo 0:43 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 0:43 And then I, I got really-

Suzanne Santo 0:44 Tell me a lot of shit.

Ben Jaffe 0:44 ... I got really worried about Ben. Uh...

Suzanne Santo 0:46 The person I live with s- thought... Well, may- maybe did have COVID-

Joe Rogan 0:51 Hmm.

Suzanne Santo 0:51 ... at the time. It turns out he, he tested negative but he had acute laryngitis at the same time.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 0:57 So we're just like, "Oh, shit."

Joe Rogan 0:58 See, that... Like, all those other diseases don't take a break.

Suzanne Santo 1:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00 Like, "Oh, COVID's got this."

Ben Jaffe 1:02 Right. No, didn't he have bronchitis?

Suzanne Santo 1:03 No, he had acute laryngitis.

Ben Jaffe 1:04 Well, either way, I was, like, real mad at you at the time. And then I was like, I really love Ben and I'd be really bummed if I didn't... If there weren't a Ben. And I... And then we started talking, hanging out.

Suzanne Santo 1:16 Just being Ben.

Joe Rogan 1:17 Sometimes that's all it takes. You, you know, we all get set in our ways. You get these grudges and these stupid things that you stick in your... Like, the best shit is-

Ben Jaffe 1:26 Not worth it.

Joe Rogan 1:26 ... camaraderie.

Ben Jaffe 1:27 Not... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Friendship and love, that's the best shit. It's like, whatever you kinda do to... And most people want that.

Ben Jaffe 1:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:33 If you ever felt that for someone at one point in time, you probably would feel it again. You just, whatever shit you have together, you just gotta talk it out. Talk it out and don't carry grudges.

Ben Jaffe 1:43 Talk it out.

Suzanne Santo 1:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Because really, carrying grudges is the worst.

Ben Jaffe 1:45 Well, we had to... We needed to step back for a minute.

Joe Rogan 1:48 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 1:48 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:48 Sometimes we all do, right?

Ben Jaffe 1:49 We had, we had some work to do on ourselves and, like, you know, we got-

Suzanne Santo 1:51 Yeah. I mean, we took two years-

Ben Jaffe 1:52 Took, yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:52 ... really, where we didn't speak much at all.

Ben Jaffe 1:54 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:55 And when we did-

Joe Rogan 1:55 By the way, shout out to-

Suzanne Santo 1:57 ... it wasn't good.

Ben Jaffe 1:57 It wasn't good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:57 ... Balls of Steel from the old Rogan board.

Suzanne Santo 1:59 Right.

Ben Jaffe 1:59 Balls of Steel! (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:59 Brought us all together.

Suzanne Santo 2:00 Oh my God.

Ben Jaffe 2:02 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 2:02 Lives in infamy.

Joe Rogan 2:04 That's an ins- that's an inside story, huh?

Ben Jaffe 2:06 God, how long... It's been a while now.

Suzanne Santo 2:07 He still hasn't revealed himself.

Joe Rogan 2:08 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 2:08 What if it was us the whole time, Joe?

Joe Rogan 2:10 Whoever that dude is, it was us the whole time.

Ben Jaffe 2:11 (laughs) I-

Joe Rogan 2:11 But you were right, you had to be talented.

Suzanne Santo 2:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:13 The, the video he sent was you guys doing Angel of Death acoustic on the roof of a building in LA.

Suzanne Santo 2:19 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 2:19 So crazy. We were just-

Joe Rogan 2:20 That, that building is right now on fire.

Ben Jaffe 2:22 They were so... Probably. Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 2:24 (laughs) Rightfully so.

Ben Jaffe 2:25 Oh my God. Goddammit. Yeah, when we were practicing last night there was an earthquake.

Joe Rogan 2:31 Oh, Jesus.

Ben Jaffe 2:32 And I was just, like, watching, like, my living room kinda. And I looked at Ben, I was like, "Fuck! No! What?"

Joe Rogan 2:38 That's God-

Suzanne Santo 2:38 Yeah, well, if acute laryngitis doesn't stop, an earthquake doesn't stop.

Joe Rogan 2:40 It's like God saying, "Bam. Just a little one."

Ben Jaffe 2:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:42 Shake it up, bam!

Suzanne Santo 2:43 Or titties.

Ben Jaffe 2:44 See, that's why I don't say bam.

Joe Rogan 2:45 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 2:45 Could've been saying titties.

Ben Jaffe 2:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:46 He could've been saying a lot of things.

Ben Jaffe 2:47 God, stop.

Joe Rogan 2:47 He's God.

Ben Jaffe 2:48 Titties.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Invented all languages and all things.

Suzanne Santo 2:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:52 Yeah, all the bad words. God invented those too.

Ben Jaffe 2:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:55 God invented racial slurs, so we have to-

Suzanne Santo 2:57 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:57 ... work it out.

Ben Jaffe 2:58 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 2:58 So he did it-

Suzanne Santo 2:59 He left, he left us with the word.

Joe Rogan 3:00 And, and, and he invented all the... It's... I really... We need to find a good one for white people, you know?

Ben Jaffe 3:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:06 We really need to balance this out.

Ben Jaffe 3:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:08 A good-

Suzanne Santo 3:08 Mm.

Joe Rogan 3:09 A good, juicy slur from-

Suzanne Santo 3:10 There's not a-

Ben Jaffe 3:10 Chads.

Suzanne Santo 3:10 There's not a solid one.

Ben Jaffe 3:11 Chads.

Joe Rogan 3:12 (laughs) It's not... It's Karens.

Ben Jaffe 3:13 Brocks.

Joe Rogan 3:13 Karen is one.

Suzanne Santo 3:14 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 3:14 Yeah, what's the white, what's the white one? Brock? Chad?

Joe Rogan 3:16 Rock? Chad. It's just Chads.

Ben Jaffe 3:17 Bradleys?

Suzanne Santo 3:18 Chad's, I think it's Chads.

Ben Jaffe 3:18 I think Bradley feels fitting.

Joe Rogan 3:20 Sure. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 3:21 A lot of poor Bradleys out there they can suffer from that.

Joe Rogan 3:22 But there's a lot of good Bradleys. Like, what's that Bradley? The actor? Bradley Cooper?

Ben Jaffe 3:26 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:26 That guy's badass.

Suzanne Santo 3:27 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 3:27 Yeah, he's great.

Joe Rogan 3:27 He's a really good actor.

Ben Jaffe 3:28 Super great.

Joe Rogan 3:28 So it can't be a-

Ben Jaffe 3:29 Big fan.

Joe Rogan 3:29 ... a Bradley.

Ben Jaffe 3:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 3:31 But there's a lot of cool Chads.

Ben Jaffe 3:32 Yeah, Brad Pitt. Sorry.

Joe Rogan 3:34 There's a lot. Chad Ward, Chad Dawson. There's a lot of great boxers named Chad.

Ben Jaffe 3:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:38 Shit.

Suzanne Santo 3:39 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 3:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:39 We can't even go with Chad.

Ben Jaffe 3:41 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 3:42 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 3:42 Jamie, what do you got?

Suzanne Santo 3:43 Turn it around, turn it around.

Ben Jaffe 3:44 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 3:44 Different direction.

Joe Rogan 3:45 Jamie can't say shit, he's got a girl's name.

Suzanne Santo 3:47 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 3:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:48 What you gonna do?

Suzanne Santo 3:49 Hey, hey.

Ben Jaffe 3:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:49 What you gonna do?

Suzanne Santo 3:50 Calm- There's nothing wrong with that, Jamie.

Joe Rogan 3:52 ... down.

Suzanne Santo 3:52 Just open it.

Ben Jaffe 3:53 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 3:53 Calm it down.

Joe Rogan 3:54 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 3:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:55 There's nothing wrong with having a girl's name.

Ben Jaffe 3:56 It's been a past gender joke.

Suzanne Santo 3:57 I had to deal with that my whole life.

Ben Jaffe 3:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:58 Bro, I'm sure you did.

Suzanne Santo 3:59 Little kids saying that when I was 10.

Joe Rogan 4:00 Listen, you know I love you, Jamie.

Ben Jaffe 4:02 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 4:02 Don't spell it that way, Joe.

Suzanne Santo 4:03 You know I love you.

Ben Jaffe 4:04 I mean, you could be a Kim.

Joe Rogan 4:04 What, it's a different way with girls? It's J-A-M-I with no E?

Suzanne Santo 4:07 That's what... Most of them spell it with an I before the M.

Ben Jaffe 4:09 (laughs) That's why he's Jamie with no E.

Suzanne Santo 4:10 I think it's a, I think it's a Y.

Joe Rogan 4:11 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 4:12 Oh, no. (laughs) We're gonna piss off a lot of Jamies.

Suzanne Santo 4:14 Or it's Jaime.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Stacy's a rude one to name a boy.

Suzanne Santo 4:16 It's Jaime.

Ben Jaffe 4:16 Stacy's tough.

Joe Rogan 4:17 Stacy, that's rude.

Ben Jaffe 4:18 Stacy's tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:18 That's rude.

Suzanne Santo 4:18 Leslie's kinda tough.

Joe Rogan 4:19 Leslie's rude!

Suzanne Santo 4:21 On the, on the, on the, on the edge for sure.

Joe Rogan 4:22 You hate your kid. It's like A Boy Named Sue.

Suzanne Santo 4:23 There's an Ashley's out there.

Joe Rogan 4:24 It's a Johnny Cash song.

Suzanne Santo 4:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:26 Johnny Cash wrote a goddamn song about it.

Suzanne Santo 4:27 Michelle Sterzinger wrote that.

Ben Jaffe 4:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:29 Oh, rea-... Oh, that's right.

Ben Jaffe 4:30 Right, she did.

Joe Rogan 4:30 That's right, and Johnny Cash sung it. That is a great fucking song.

Suzanne Santo 4:33 Truth.

Joe Rogan 4:33 That's a great fucking song.

Ben Jaffe 4:35 I like, I like, uh, I like boy names for girls. I think that always... Like, Bobby or Billy.

Joe Rogan 4:39 If they're hot, they can pull it off.

Ben Jaffe 4:40 Yeah, yeah. I've, I've actually-

Suzanne Santo 4:41 Gary.

Ben Jaffe 4:42 I wanted to name a girl named Gary.

Joe Rogan 4:43 Gary. Yeah, okay.

Ben Jaffe 4:43 I want... If I, if I ever procreated and I had a little girl-

Joe Rogan 4:47 Would you do that to that poor little kid?

Ben Jaffe 4:47 Yeah, but she'd be, like, the fucking coolest Gary on the planet.

Joe Rogan 4:50 That's one thing she would probably get over are people fucking with her real early in life. You know what I mean?

Suzanne Santo 4:55 Sure.

Ben Jaffe 4:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:55 'Cause sometimes when... if you don't know-

Suzanne Santo 4:57 That's not how The Boy Named Sue song went though.

Joe Rogan 4:59 It's like, when... No.

Ben Jaffe 4:59 (laughs) He didn't, he didn't-

Suzanne Santo 5:00 If that's the cautionary tale-

Ben Jaffe 5:03 ... it didn't pan out so well. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 5:04 ... then it didn't work out.

Joe Rogan 5:04 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 5:04 But who knows what Gary's gonna be dealing with in 15 years? Shit's gonna be crazy.

Ben Jaffe 5:08 Shit's-

Suzanne Santo 5:09 He's not gonna care.

Ben Jaffe 5:09 She's gonna be...

Suzanne Santo 5:10 He's gonna name, you know-

Ben Jaffe 5:10 I think she's gonna be crushing it.

Suzanne Santo 5:11 People will be beyond that.

Ben Jaffe 5:12 I am not ready to have children, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:14 Well, then don't have kids.

Suzanne Santo 5:16 There, she said it.

Ben Jaffe 5:16 (laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Joe Rogan 5:18 The one thing that those kid j- zealots like to do is they like to pretend that everybody needs to have kids in order to be-

Ben Jaffe 5:25 Mm.

Joe Rogan 5:25 ... valuable in this life, you need to have kids. That's a-

Ben Jaffe 5:27 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 5:28 ... lot of fucking pressure on people.

Ben Jaffe 5:29 Is that a thing?

Joe Rogan 5:30 Sure. It's... You know what it is?

Suzanne Santo 5:31 Huh?

Joe Rogan 5:31 When someone's doing something, they think you should be doing it.

Ben Jaffe 5:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:35 Right? Like, you talk to someone who just started meditating and they can't sh-... That's me, I can never-

Ben Jaffe 5:38 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:38 ... shut the fuck up about what I like doing.

Ben Jaffe 5:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:40 I'm always trying to get people to do things.

Ben Jaffe 5:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:42 You know?

Ben Jaffe 5:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:43 But that's the thing with people with kids. They're, "Dude, you gotta have a fucking kid."

Ben Jaffe 5:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:46 "You gotta have a fucking kid. Trust me. You gotta have a fucking-"

Ben Jaffe 5:48 No. I don't-

Joe Rogan 5:48 "What is your life? What are you doing? You're not gonna have children?"

Suzanne Santo 5:50 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 5:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:50 "You're not gonna procreate? Your name's not gonna carry on?" Like-

Ben Jaffe 5:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:53 ... settle down, man.

Ben Jaffe 5:53 That's never resonated with me, like, a legacy of, like-

Joe Rogan 5:57 'Cause you don't have a penis.

Ben Jaffe 5:58 I don't know. No, but, like, as... You know, but even with my career.

Suzanne Santo 6:02 I don't have one.

Ben Jaffe 6:02 Like, I...... I just wanna play music. Like, I don't really think about, like, what's gonna last when I'm dead.

Joe Rogan 6:07 There's nothing wrong w- you're a great person. There's nothing wrong with any way of approaching this life. Have children, don't have children.

Ben Jaffe 6:15 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Sing music, don't sing music.

Ben Jaffe 6:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:17 You, you could do whatever the fuck you want. You're a great person.

Ben Jaffe 6:19 And I do.

Joe Rogan 6:19 And you do.

Ben Jaffe 6:19 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 6:20 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 6:20 I appreciate that, friend. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Listen, friend.

Ben Jaffe 6:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:22 But this thing that people-

Ben Jaffe 6:23 It's why I have two cats. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:24 ... will put pressure-

Ben Jaffe 6:25 So, people... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:25 People put pressure on folks that they have to have kids or their life is not valid and meaningful.

Suzanne Santo 6:30 Right. Well, probably 'cause they're having trouble dealing with the pressure of having kids, maybe.

Joe Rogan 6:33 Uh, maybe. But it's all silly 'cause you don't live forever. J- no one ... Your children won't live forever. No one lives forever. You live-

Ben Jaffe 6:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:40 ... you die. You gotta keep moving. While you're alive, you should just be happy.

Ben Jaffe 6:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Just be happy. You're contributing. Everyone's contributing, whether you have kids or don't have kids.

Ben Jaffe 6:47 When you don't have kids, you have the option to love and support the kids in your peripheral-

Joe Rogan 6:53 Sure.

Suzanne Santo 6:53 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 6:53 ... area, like my nieces-

Joe Rogan 6:54 Sure.

Ben Jaffe 6:54 ... and nephew and stuff, and, and my friends' kids. And then you can go home, and you don't have to deal with the other shit.

Joe Rogan 6:59 Yep.

Suzanne Santo 7:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Sure. Sure.

Ben Jaffe 7:01 So-

Suzanne Santo 7:01 They don't wanna know.

Ben Jaffe 7:02 You know.

Joe Rogan 7:02 But then, like, for, for-

Ben Jaffe 7:03 Selfish. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:03 ... me, it was a strong education to-

Suzanne Santo 7:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:05 ... education in humanity and just learning how to be a person, a different kind of person, a person that raises little people.

Ben Jaffe 7:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:12 A person that's responsible for, for babies.

Ben Jaffe 7:14 Of course.

Joe Rogan 7:14 It's a totally different feel. It's like-

Ben Jaffe 7:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 ... whew, it fucks with your head. You know, it just, it cr- for a lot of people, it creates a ton of anxiety and-

Ben Jaffe 7:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:22 ... existential angst and fear about the future.

Ben Jaffe 7:25 Well, the thing is, if I were to have kids, I would ... Like, being a mother would be, like, the number one prio- like, nothing comes-

Joe Rogan 7:32 Right.

Ben Jaffe 7:32 ... before then. And-

Joe Rogan 7:33 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 7:33 ... you know, I would, I would take that seriously. And it's just something that, you know, when you think about ... And I'm like, like, now's the time. (laughs) But-

Joe Rogan 7:41 How old are you now? Am I allowed to ask a lady?

Ben Jaffe 7:42 Yeah. Yeah. I'm 35, you know.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Oh, you could still pull it off for a few years.

Ben Jaffe 7:45 I don't, I don't age shame, you know.

Suzanne Santo 7:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:46 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 7:46 I'm really happy with where I'm at. I think that's so funny when people get really squeamish about that, like, okay.

Joe Rogan 7:53 Well, it's they feel like they only have a certain amount of time to, to grab that lightning in the bottle and be validated.

Ben Jaffe 8:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:01 And, uh, you know, some people just think that you gotta ... L- it's gonna burn out quick, and then-

Ben Jaffe 8:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:08 ... life is gonna suck.

Ben Jaffe 8:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:09 You know? Just-

Ben Jaffe 8:09 Somebody age shamed me once and was like, "You're almost 40, blah, blah, blah." And I was like, "What's wrong with 40?"

Joe Rogan 8:14 Was this online?

Ben Jaffe 8:15 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:15 That sounds like a YouTube comment.

Suzanne Santo 8:17 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 8:17 Unfortunately, no.

Joe Rogan 8:18 That was in real life someone said that?

Ben Jaffe 8:20 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 8:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:20 A, a guy you know?

Ben Jaffe 8:21 Yeah, let's go.

Joe Rogan 8:22 Oh, rude.

Ben Jaffe 8:24 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 8:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:24 How weak.

Ben Jaffe 8:25 Huh?

Joe Rogan 8:25 But I mean, again, why would someone do that? They're trying to make you feel bad 'cause they don't feel good. That's what it is. It's always-

Ben Jaffe 8:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:30 ... the case. It's no one who feels great, is on top of the world. Dalai Lama's out there ... Not out there leaving shitty YouTube comments.

Ben Jaffe 8:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 8:36 You know?

Ben Jaffe 8:36 What if he was, though? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:37 Imagine if he was.

Ben Jaffe 8:38 Secretly like ... (typing sounds)

Joe Rogan 8:39 Did you ever see the video of ... He does ... He got-

Suzanne Santo 8:41 Oh, let's see it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:41 I don't know if you know this, but he got canceled for a little while.

Ben Jaffe 8:44 No.

Suzanne Santo 8:44 What did he do?

Joe Rogan 8:44 Yeah, the Dalai Lama got canceled.

Ben Jaffe 8:46 Wait.

Joe Rogan 8:46 Yes, yes, yes.

Suzanne Santo 8:47 I bet he dealt with it fine.

Joe Rogan 8:48 He did this v- and we actu- he was actually talking about this exact same subject. He did this interview where they said, uh, "You know, you've been ... You're celibate, and have you ever thought about being married or having children?" He goes, "Oh, I've seen a lot of marriages. Uh, much worry, much cancer." And he goes, "Plus, uh, when they break up, uh, woman get all the money." (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 9:10 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 9:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:10 He's, like, joking around. And, and, uh, and the lady's like, "What the fuck? This is the Dalai Lama."

Ben Jaffe 9:16 Oh, no. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 9:18 Oh, boy.

Joe Rogan 9:18 And, and then she goes ... She actually tries to social justice her way out of it 'cause, you know, she's o- ... She gotta confront him. She goes, "Actually, sometimes the woman makes her own money."

Ben Jaffe 9:26 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 9:27 And he's like, "Oh, good one."

Suzanne Santo 9:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:29 Like, he just goes like ... (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 9:30 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 9:31 "Yeah, sometimes." (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 9:33 Oh, no.

Suzanne Santo 9:33 Oh, no.

Ben Jaffe 9:33 And so they just put him in time out for a minute. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:35 People were saying like, "Should we cancel the Dalai Lama?" It was really funny. It was really funny.

Ben Jaffe 9:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:40 He's like, "I see people-"

Suzanne Santo 9:42 You can cancel him if it needs to happen.

Joe Rogan 9:42 He goes, uh, "Then I see him, like, a couple years later, new person, new girlfriend, much worry, much cancer."

Ben Jaffe 9:48 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 9:49 Uh-huh.

Ben Jaffe 9:49 Oh, no.

Suzanne Santo 9:49 Still holding that line.

Joe Rogan 9:50 Plus, he talks about how women wanna spend all the guy's money. I'm like, well, this is hilarious.

Ben Jaffe 9:55 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 9:55 But has he had a girlfriend?

Joe Rogan 9:57 Never.

Ben Jaffe 9:57 No.

Suzanne Santo 9:57 I think he maybe doesn't-

Ben Jaffe 9:59 I don't think that's-

Suzanne Santo 9:59 ... know about that stuff as much.

Joe Rogan 10:00 Bro, that's guesswork.

Ben Jaffe 10:01 You should tell 'em.

Joe Rogan 10:01 That's straight guesswork.

Suzanne Santo 10:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 10:03 Yeah. I don't think that's part of the job.

Suzanne Santo 10:05 What I've heard-

Ben Jaffe 10:06 Yeah. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 10:06 ... what they tell me is-

Joe Rogan 10:08 Yeah, he doesn't know.

Ben Jaffe 10:08 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 10:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:08 That life is a strange life. You know, they picked him when he was a baby.

Ben Jaffe 10:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:12 He was, like, a little kid.

Ben Jaffe 10:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:14 He was a little kid, they picked him, and they said, "You're the fucking man, bro."

Suzanne Santo 10:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:17 Imagine that.

Ben Jaffe 10:18 Was he seven?

Suzanne Santo 10:18 When the last one dies, even though-

Joe Rogan 10:19 He was really young.

Ben Jaffe 10:20 I think he was the seventh.

Suzanne Santo 10:20 When the last one dies, they pick a new one.

Joe Rogan 10:22 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 10:23 They have, they have a slate of little babies. They're like-

Joe Rogan 10:24 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 10:24 ... "Could be you, could be you, could be you."

Ben Jaffe 10:25 How, how is that monitored?

Joe Rogan 10:28 (coughing) They just have a vibe.

Suzanne Santo 10:30 It's, it's ... It's like a council of Tibetan-

Ben Jaffe 10:31 Is there a hat and you put a bunch of names in it? Or is it, like, a ... I-

Suzanne Santo 10:35 I, I, I'm not there.

Joe Rogan 10:36 But is-

Suzanne Santo 10:36 I haven't, haven't seen it done.

Ben Jaffe 10:37 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Is it required that he's celibate? Is that part of the d- the gig?

Suzanne Santo 10:40 Oh.

Joe Rogan 10:41 Imagine that. That's so rude.

Suzanne Santo 10:42 Wow.

Ben Jaffe 10:42 Yeah. 'Cause it's like-

Suzanne Santo 10:44 They get their choice pretty much made for them.

Joe Rogan 10:44 Can't you come to me, like, in-

Ben Jaffe 10:45 When you're-

Joe Rogan 10:45 ... my 50s?

Ben Jaffe 10:46 Yeah. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 10:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:48 This is ... (laughs) Why do you-

Suzanne Santo 10:48 Can we work with this?

Joe Rogan 10:49 Why do you wanna come to me as a holy man when I'm seven?

Ben Jaffe 10:51 Yeah. You don't have the choice yet.

Suzanne Santo 10:52 Too much.

Ben Jaffe 10:52 Really.

Joe Rogan 10:52 You cut off the sex at seven?

Suzanne Santo 10:54 Did you ever-

Ben Jaffe 10:55 Wait. Well, no, they don't ... Okay. Wait. Sorry. I, I misinterpreted.

Joe Rogan 10:58 I'm saying they're not allowed to ever have sex.

Ben Jaffe 11:00 I'm like, they're not castrating him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:00 No, no, no, no, no.

Ben Jaffe 11:00 They're just like, "No more sex." (laughs) I didn't think so.

Joe Rogan 11:03 I know. Yeah, I should cut off the sex is really a rude-

Ben Jaffe 11:03 When she said it, I was like, "Is this something I don't know?"

Joe Rogan 11:05 ... way to put it. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 11:07 Sure.

Ben Jaffe 11:07 Dummy. Sorry.

Joe Rogan 11:08 'Cause it's not like they ever put it on. I mean, there was-

Suzanne Santo 11:10 No, it was already there.

Joe Rogan 11:10 He's a, a baby.

Ben Jaffe 11:11 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 11:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:12 That's how it went.

Suzanne Santo 11:13 He was there.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Yes.

Ben Jaffe 11:13 It's already attached.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Yeah. Um-

Ben Jaffe 11:15 Wow. Now I'm thinking about the Dalai Lama's penis.

Joe Rogan 11:17 But, Jamie, what, what year did they pick the Dalai Lama?

Suzanne Santo 11:19 (laughs) Never thought that would happen.

Ben Jaffe 11:20 No, I didn't either. First time.

Suzanne Santo 11:22 We share a birthday, I think I should tell you all.

Ben Jaffe 11:23 You and the Dalai Lama?

Joe Rogan 11:24 That is crazy.

Suzanne Santo 11:25 It's the truth. That's the truth.

Ben Jaffe 11:26 July-

Joe Rogan 11:26 That's crazy. You might be spiritual.

Suzanne Santo 11:27 July 6th, people. Those people are hilarious.

Ben Jaffe 11:29 6th. 1984?

Suzanne Santo 11:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:30 I, I share a birthday with the Dalai Lama and-

Suzanne Santo 11:32 I share ... Yeah, it's pretty much the same, Joe.

Joe Rogan 11:34 ... also, a conscious stream.

Suzanne Santo 11:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:36 It was a consciousness stream. You know what I watched last night that I haven't seen? Really in-

Suzanne Santo 11:40 Which one?

Joe Rogan 11:40 I don't think I ever saw it through. It was Zoolander.

Suzanne Santo 11:42 Mm.

Ben Jaffe 11:42 Oh, it's so good.

Joe Rogan 11:43 Hilarious.

Ben Jaffe 11:44 It's so good.

Joe Rogan 11:45 So ridiculous.

Suzanne Santo 11:45 Who am I?

Joe Rogan 11:46 It's so ridiculous.

Ben Jaffe 11:48 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 11:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:48 What a great idea to have a, a, like, a super vapid beautiful man.

Ben Jaffe 11:53 Oh, it's so good.

Suzanne Santo 11:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:54 (laughs) In one of those really slapsticky silly comedies.

Ben Jaffe 11:57 There's so much truth to it, though. That's the sad part.

Joe Rogan 12:00 It was great.

Suzanne Santo 12:00 I enjoyed the shit out of it.

Ben Jaffe 12:01 It's like there's a ... Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 12:02 You, you knew male models when you were doing male modeling stuff, right?

Ben Jaffe 12:05 I did.

Joe Rogan 12:06 You were doing male modeling?

Suzanne Santo 12:07 You were doing male modeling, right?

Ben Jaffe 12:08 (laughs) Back, back in my-

Suzanne Santo 12:09 Did that come out wrong?

Joe Rogan 12:10 Right.

Ben Jaffe 12:10 ... formative, formative years when I was a male model.

Suzanne Santo 12:13 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 12:13 News grenade. Uh-

Suzanne Santo 12:14 Poof.

Ben Jaffe 12:14 Things have changed. (laughs) No, I did. I did, yeah. There's, there's ... I mean, it's kinda like ... I gotta choose my words carefully here. Uh-There's a thing. I think modeling in general is a very odd thing if... I, I was a model from 14 to like 18, and um-

Joe Rogan 12:31 It's kinda like the Dalai Lama, they just chose you.

Ben Jaffe 12:34 No.

Joe Rogan 12:34 Wait.

Ben Jaffe 12:35 I, I wa- I went for it.

Joe Rogan 12:37 Okay.

Ben Jaffe 12:37 And my mom, like, took me to this agency that... I was, like, making money when I was... You know, I had, like... I was just, like, working every, every other week for, like... Value City Department Stores, anyone?

Joe Rogan 12:46 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 12:46 Where my Clevelanders at? And, uh, eventually, I kept getting, you know... Uh, I, I never saw it as, like, the end-all be-all. I w- I, I wanted the bridge to something else as I figured out, like, where my area of entertainment was. I was a actor for a while. Um, but, you know, if that's all you got and you're just sort of, like, paid to look beautiful, like, there's something really fucked up about that. Like-

Joe Rogan 13:08 Hmm.

Ben Jaffe 13:08 ... it's not a healthy mindset. And I saw lots of eating disorders and all kinds of really sad shit that, like... You know, people's identities are wrapped up in this.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 13:17 And I remember I, uh, I, I gained a little weight when I was 18 because I went on birth control and they, uh... I was in the middle of my agency and they were measuring me in front of people, and they were like, "You gotta lose two inches." And-

Joe Rogan 13:29 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 13:29 And it's a fucking hard thing and-

Joe Rogan 13:31 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 13:32 ... I just quit. I started bartending. Um, I didn't, I didn't want it that badly and I like pizza.

Joe Rogan 13:38 That's such a weird thing to say to somebody.

Ben Jaffe 13:39 I know. It's really, it's really fucked up.

Joe Rogan 13:41 You gotta lose two inches. That's so specific.

Ben Jaffe 13:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 13:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:43 Like what? What if I lose two and a half?

Ben Jaffe 13:45 You need to be...

Joe Rogan 13:45 Would you get worried?

Suzanne Santo 13:45 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 13:45 Well, you need to fit the clothes, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:47 Money.

Ben Jaffe 13:48 I think... I mean, I don't... I'm not-

Suzanne Santo 13:49 It's like fighters though, right?

Ben Jaffe 13:50 Yeah. Well, no. That, that's much... (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 13:51 I mean, no, no, no. I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to compare.

Ben Jaffe 13:54 But actually, I kinda like it.

Joe Rogan 13:55 It's exactly like fighters.

Suzanne Santo 13:57 In every way. You clean your brain damage.

Joe Rogan 13:58 They're used to hearing that kind of thing.

Ben Jaffe 13:59 When I was training as a model. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:03 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 14:03 All right, all right, rescinded.

Joe Rogan 14:05 But no, it is a thing where you're both relying on your body entirely-

Suzanne Santo 14:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:08 ... for your living.

Ben Jaffe 14:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:10 You know? And there's a lot of people-

Ben Jaffe 14:11 There's a skill involved though with-

Joe Rogan 14:12 And for women, I would imagine women already-

Suzanne Santo 14:15 Not comparing 'em.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Women already worry about being marginalized for their brain anyway.

Ben Jaffe 14:20 Sure.

Joe Rogan 14:20 So then it's almost like some of 'em feel like they have to prove themselves extra because they happen to be pretty and they're a model and people just assume they're a moron, right?

Suzanne Santo 14:28 That's the thing.

Ben Jaffe 14:29 Yeah, it's an issue. I mean, yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 14:33 But there's also people who figure it out. There's, there's girls who do it and then they do other shit.

Ben Jaffe 14:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:37 They can do... It can be done.

Ben Jaffe 14:38 Hey, it's me, Suz. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:38 There you go. Yeah. But it's like when pe- but that's why I get k- kind of annoyed when people will talk about any job being inherently toxic.

Ben Jaffe 14:46 Mm.

Joe Rogan 14:46 But okay, a lot of jobs have the potential for toxicity, everything.

Ben Jaffe 14:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:51 Including like, you know, fucking everything. Fi- all of 'em, all jobs could fuck you up.

Ben Jaffe 14:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:56 All jobs could distort your percep... I mean, how about being a cop? You know, bad... That could fucking distort your perception. How about being a doctor, emergency room doctor?

Ben Jaffe 15:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:03 Every day, bullet wounds, stab wounds-

Ben Jaffe 15:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:05 ... car accidents, dealing with that every day.

Ben Jaffe 15:08 Hm.

Joe Rogan 15:08 That, that shit's gotta be bad for you. That could... can't be good for your head.

Ben Jaffe 15:11 100%.

Suzanne Santo 15:12 Trauma, trauma, trauma.

Joe Rogan 15:12 Oh, the model's worried about losing two inches. She gonna be okay?

Ben Jaffe 15:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, like, I'm okay. I'm not gonna-

Joe Rogan 15:17 She gonna be okay?

Ben Jaffe 15:18 I'm not gonna get my violin out over this. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 15:19 But, but, you know, the doctor's not 14 years old, that's a difference, you know.

Joe Rogan 15:22 Oh, you, you're only super hot, not like super-duper hot?

Suzanne Santo 15:27 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 15:28 How do you do it?

Suzanne Santo 15:30 How do you get up every day?

Ben Jaffe 15:31 No, I was definitely lower, lower level, for sure. Like, there was... I was like catalog. I wa-... You know what I mean? I knew what I was.

Suzanne Santo 15:36 Mm-hmm. But what I, I mean, it's all kinda crazy, right? You just get this amazing roll of the dice with your bone structure and then everybody's like, "Here's some money." And you're like, "What do I have to do for this?"

Ben Jaffe 15:44 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 15:44 Sit there.

Joe Rogan 15:44 You don't have to do anything.

Suzanne Santo 15:45 Hold this.

Ben Jaffe 15:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:45 You just gotta do a... You gotta-

Suzanne Santo 15:46 Dance like a monkey, Derek.

Joe Rogan 15:47 ... you gotta Zoolander.

Ben Jaffe 15:47 Well, you gotta be smart with it. You gotta know what it is.

Suzanne Santo 15:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:49 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 15:49 Know that there's a, there's an expiration date on it. What are you gonna do with the money you make? What are you gonna do with any of the... You know. Like, that's how I started acting and I-

Suzanne Santo 15:57 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 15:57 I loved it. You know?

Joe Rogan 15:58 It's kinda crazy though if you really stop and think about it.

Ben Jaffe 16:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:01 Like, that, that is like the biggest lottery in life for a lot of folks, is how do you look? You know?

Ben Jaffe 16:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:07 Like, if you're Jason Momoa, it's amazing that he's a good guy.

Ben Jaffe 16:11 (sighs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:11 It's amazing that he's a good guy.

Ben Jaffe 16:12 Bless him. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:13 Because he's too beautiful.

Ben Jaffe 16:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:15 He's too good-looking.

Ben Jaffe 16:16 You know he was sitting next to us at the Sturgill concert?

Joe Rogan 16:19 Oh yeah, yeah. He was right over there.

Ben Jaffe 16:19 He was on the-

Joe Rogan 16:20 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 16:20 He was on one side and then Johnny Burnthal, the Punisher, was on the other.

Joe Rogan 16:24 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 16:24 And it was like one of the best days of my life. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:27 (laughs) Well, it was cool.

Ben Jaffe 16:29 I- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:29 I enjoyed that very much.

Ben Jaffe 16:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:30 I don't get to see concerts like that.

Ben Jaffe 16:32 It was so great.

Joe Rogan 16:33 And, you know, and to go and see it with you-

Suzanne Santo 16:35 Was that at The Forum?

Joe Rogan 16:35 ... that was really fun. We had fun.

Ben Jaffe 16:36 It was, it was a blast.

Joe Rogan 16:36 We had dinner together.

Ben Jaffe 16:37 Yeah. It was cool.

Suzanne Santo 16:38 Where was, where was the show?

Ben Jaffe 16:39 It was at The Troubadour.

Joe Rogan 16:41 The show was at The Troubadour.

Suzanne Santo 16:41 The Troubadour? Holy shit.

Ben Jaffe 16:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:42 Dude, it was awesome.

Suzanne Santo 16:42 Wow.

Joe Rogan 16:42 And it was the Fire and Fury, this new, new shit-

Suzanne Santo 16:45 Did they show him in the video?

Joe Rogan 16:45 ... that he's doing. Yeah. But he's also doing a lot of stuff from his old, his old catalog too, so it was just... It was awesome, and it was real intimate. Like, what is that, 400 people or something?

Ben Jaffe 16:54 Five.

Suzanne Santo 16:54 Five.

Ben Jaffe 16:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:55 Stuffed.

Suzanne Santo 16:56 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 16:56 We sold it out once. We know. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 16:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:58 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 16:58 It was like one of the greatest moments of Honey Honey and we sold out The Troub.

Suzanne Santo 17:01 And it's, it's one of the great venues in LA.

Ben Jaffe 17:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:02 It's a double-decker, but it's still intimate.

Suzanne Santo 17:04 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 17:04 Yeah, it's great.

Joe Rogan 17:04 You know, it's really rare in the way, the way it's set up. I mean, it's set up amazing.

Ben Jaffe 17:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Like, where we were was incredible.

Ben Jaffe 17:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:10 Like up above when you... in that little balcony area-

Ben Jaffe 17:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:13 ... next to the Punisher.

Suzanne Santo 17:13 Yeah. Go... (grunts)

Ben Jaffe 17:15 Ugh.

Suzanne Santo 17:15 A lot of intensity.

Ben Jaffe 17:17 That's how I know it.

Suzanne Santo 17:17 Just banging on the surface.

Joe Rogan 17:17 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 17:17 Well, we, we talked about this. I think I told you this, but when we went to dinner afterwards-

Joe Rogan 17:21 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 17:22 ... uh, John Prine was right in front of us and I really, really wanted to tell him how much I loved his music and I, I chickened out. I chickened out.

Joe Rogan 17:31 Yeah, I remember we were talking about it. I didn't know who he was. That's the first time I ever heard of him-

Suzanne Santo 17:37 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 17:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:37 ... and saw.

Ben Jaffe 17:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:38 And then when I heard he died from COVID, I was like, "Oh, that's that dude from Damned Hands."

Ben Jaffe 17:43 He... You know, he, he's worth checking out and like really, really digging into who he was and, and his music is-

Joe Rogan 17:48 Sturgill loved him.

Ben Jaffe 17:48 Yeah, he's magical. Magical.

Suzanne Santo 17:50 Yeah, beautiful songwriter.

Ben Jaffe 17:51 Beautiful.

Joe Rogan 17:51 Can you re- remember like a specific famous song where people would recognize him?

Ben Jaffe 17:55 Angel from Montgomery.

Joe Rogan 17:56 What's that?

Suzanne Santo 17:56 You wanna do it? Can you do it? You wanna do it?

Ben Jaffe 17:58 I'll mess it up.

Suzanne Santo 17:58 So what?

Ben Jaffe 17:59 Ben!

Suzanne Santo 18:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:01 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 18:01 God dammit.

Joe Rogan 18:02 Can you pull up The Lyric?

Suzanne Santo 18:02 No, we can do it. We can do it.

Ben Jaffe 18:03 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 18:03 Listen, one of the best, one of the best music shows I've ever seen-

Ben Jaffe 18:06 This guy.

Joe Rogan 18:06 ... in my life-

Suzanne Santo 18:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:06 ... is when you guys were on stage with Gary Clark and you were singing Midnight Rider off tune.

Ben Jaffe 18:10 Careful, you might have to pay The Allman Brothers right now.

Suzanne Santo 18:12 You're gonna get sued. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:13 I know. Isn't that crazy? We had... That shit got pulled off the podcast. We have to pay The Allman Brothers.

Ben Jaffe 18:17 I heard.

Suzanne Santo 18:17 Dammit. They just told us.

Joe Rogan 18:18 Or whoever owns it. Yeah, when you... When that happens more than three times, they'll cancel your fucking account.

Ben Jaffe 18:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:24 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 18:24 Okay, this might be sappy.

Joe Rogan 18:26 But it was like-

Suzanne Santo 18:26 Oh, look at that, Suz.

Ben Jaffe 18:27 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 18:27 Oh, there you go.

Ben Jaffe 18:27 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 18:28 Is that good?

Ben Jaffe 18:29 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 18:29 Is this key or is that...

18:32 Uh, th- do the Bonnie Rait- uh, key.

18:34 I don't know what key she does it in, but we'll just find it later. (guitar music)

18:39 <<I am an old woman>> Yeah, okay. (clears throat) All right. Mm.

18:47 Yeah, f- forgive her. We're finding the key. It might be weird. Does that make you feel better?

Joe Rogan 18:50 People are fine with this. Don't worry about this.

Suzanne Santo 18:53 Yeah.

18:53 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Joe Rogan 18:53 They love the weirdness. Like, people love seeing how musicians put together a song, you know?

Suzanne Santo 18:58 Hold on. <<I named after>> Here we go.

Joe Rogan 18:59 Like, you just talking-

Suzanne Santo 19:00 No, do it higher.

Joe Rogan 19:01 ... and then you jump into an awesome song. People get excited about that.

Suzanne Santo 19:04 Ben always puts the pressure on.

19:05 I always do this. Oh, there's no pressure. That's what Joe was saying.

19:06 But in the best, in the best way. Like-

19:08 It's good for you.

19:09 I know. My heart is racing. Look at us on fire.

Joe Rogan 19:11 Have a sip of that whiskey. Explain this whiskey again, Ben?

Suzanne Santo 19:16 Th- uh, that whiskey, Uncle Nearest, this guy named Nathan Green-

19:20 (laughs)

19:21 ... was, at least, uh, to my knowledge, the first recognized master distiller who was an African American taught Jack Daniels how to do his thing.

Joe Rogan 19:29 Wow.

Suzanne Santo 19:29 Freed slave after Civil, uh, after the Civil War.

Joe Rogan 19:32 And this is the whiskey you brought in as-

Suzanne Santo 19:33 And that's, and that's the whiskey.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Thank you very much.

Suzanne Santo 19:34 You're welcome.

Joe Rogan 19:34 It says 1856.

Suzanne Santo 19:36 That's it. (guitar strumming)

19:37 Okay. Did you get that?

19:39 I wasn't listening.

19:41 (humming) <<I am an old woman>> Got it?

19:49 Yeah.

19:49 Okay. Is that that key?

Joe Rogan 19:50 Who was singing that version of it?

Suzanne Santo 19:52 Bonnie Raitt.

Joe Rogan 19:52 Bonnie Raitt's a beast.

Suzanne Santo 19:54 Ugh. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:54 That lady.

Suzanne Santo 19:57 Yeah. <<I am an old woman named after my mother. My old man is another child that's grown old. If dreams were thunder and lightning was desire. This old house would have burned down a long time ago. Make me an angel that flies from Montgomery. Make me a poster of an old rodeo. Just give me one thing that I can hold on to. To believe in this living is just a hard way to go.>> (laughs)

21:10 Right? Job prime, come on.

21:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:13 Wow.

Suzanne Santo 21:13 Beautif-

Joe Rogan 21:15 You did this.

Suzanne Santo 21:15 We'll have to work that out in a fuller version.

Joe Rogan 21:18 There's more to it.

Suzanne Santo 21:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Do you wanna keep going?

Suzanne Santo 21:20 Well, you wanna play Big Man?

21:21 Let's keep playing Big Man.

21:22 Okay, keep playing this, and then I'll just-

Joe Rogan 21:23 This is stunning. This is so good, though.

Suzanne Santo 21:24 Okay, okay. All right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:26 I love Big Man too, though. I wanna hear that next.

Suzanne Santo 21:28 All right. <<When I was a young girl and I had me a cowboy. He wasn't much to look at, just a free ramblin' man. That was a long time ago. No matter how I try. Those years just flown by like a broken down dam. Make me an angel that flies from Montgomery. Make me a poster of an old rodeo. Just give me one thing that I can hold on to. To believe in this living is just a hard way to go>> Wanna tag it? <<To believe in this living is a hard way to go>>

Joe Rogan 22:36 That was beautiful.

Suzanne Santo 22:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:38 That was really beautiful.

Suzanne Santo 22:40 You get the like-

22:40 That's a great song.

Joe Rogan 22:41 Damn.

Suzanne Santo 22:41 ... living room jam.

22:42 We should, you guys should-

Joe Rogan 22:42 You should 100% cover that song.

Suzanne Santo 22:45 We just did.

Joe Rogan 22:45 100%. But I mean, like-

Suzanne Santo 22:46 I think we just did, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 22:47 You, you did, but you should put that on something. That was awesome.

Suzanne Santo 22:50 We gotta do it for Joe.

22:51 It sounded great.

Joe Rogan 22:52 Don't do it for me.

Suzanne Santo 22:52 Joe, King of Spotify.

22:54 Do it for the world.

22:54 We will do it for you.

Joe Rogan 22:54 Some... Oh, I'm not even the prince.

Suzanne Santo 22:56 Now everything is peaking out.

Joe Rogan 22:57 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 22:57 You're not even the prince. You're the king. Come on now.

Joe Rogan 22:58 I'm the court jester.

Suzanne Santo 22:59 Oh, whatever.

Ben Jaffe 23:00 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 23:01 Humble man. Um, you wanna do Big Man? Since we're, like-

Joe Rogan 23:04 Yeah, let's do it.

Suzanne Santo 23:05 ... here.

Joe Rogan 23:05 Do it.

Suzanne Santo 23:05 I might need-

23:05 Okay.

Joe Rogan 23:05 ... a tune up, though, 'cause it's chilly in here.

Ben Jaffe 23:08 (guitar strumming)

Joe Rogan 23:08 Is it chilly in here? Do you want to-

Suzanne Santo 23:10 No, no, no from the fiddle point.

Ben Jaffe 23:12 (violin strumming)

Suzanne Santo 23:13 It's not bad.

23:16 Let me tune that, and this isn't live?

Joe Rogan 23:18 No.

Suzanne Santo 23:18 Right, okay.

Joe Rogan 23:19 But we're not editing it.

Suzanne Santo 23:21 Right.

23:22 (laughs) Fuck.

23:24 Okay, okay, okay.

23:24 Well, shit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:26 Isn't that crazy that you know how, whether it's warm or cold based on the strings, based on you running that thing acro- What is that thing called? The wand.

Suzanne Santo 23:35 It's a wand. (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 23:36 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 23:36 That's so much better than what it's called.

Joe Rogan 23:38 What is it called?

Suzanne Santo 23:38 It's... It's called a wand.

23:39 No. (laughs)

23:40 It's, it's a bow.

23:40 It's called a bow.

Joe Rogan 23:41 Is it really?

Suzanne Santo 23:42 Yeah, it's a bow.

Joe Rogan 23:42 Oh, oh, of course.

Suzanne Santo 23:43 It's made out of horse hair.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Bow and fiddle. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 23:44 Yeah, but I-

Joe Rogan 23:45 Is it made out of horse hair?

Suzanne Santo 23:45 I'm gonna call it a wand now.

23:46 Yeah, that's sound good.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Yeah, wand sounds better, right?

Suzanne Santo 23:48 Yeah. (laughs)

23:48 What's that music wand you got there, man?

23:49 'Cause, 'cause I've always wanted to be a wizard.

Joe Rogan 23:51 You kind of are.

Suzanne Santo 23:52 (laughs)

23:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:52 You kind of, I was, I was... (laughs) I was watching this one thing on TikTok where they had this girl who was a witch, and they said, uh, "You know, we wanna know, like, have you actively cursed the police officers and have you, uh, uh, have you-"

Suzanne Santo 24:07 Hmm.

24:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:07 "... have you cursed the looters?" And she was going, "Oh, yeah. We've already done that."

Suzanne Santo 24:10 Took care of it.

24:11 Oh, shit.

24:11 Oh, it's covered.

24:11 Took care of it.

Joe Rogan 24:11 "We've already put hexes on all of them."

Suzanne Santo 24:13 All right. So, we're good, right?

Joe Rogan 24:14 Like, there's active witches out there.

Suzanne Santo 24:15 Check.

24:15 On the road to peace.

24:17 Check. Check.

Joe Rogan 24:17 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 24:17 I mean, well, I wanna... I have comments on that.

Ben Jaffe 24:20 (strumming guitar)

Joe Rogan 24:20 Okay.

Suzanne Santo 24:20 Uh.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Comments on witches?

Suzanne Santo 24:22 No. More intentions of, like, what a spell is and, like, the way that people, um, orchestrate that. It's kind of-

24:28 Just opened the box.

24:28 ... powerful. Like, it's l- it's like prayer in a way that, like, if we all sort of-

Joe Rogan 24:32 Yeah. There's something to it.

Suzanne Santo 24:33 Yeah, but it gets weird.

Joe Rogan 24:35 Well, we all want people to like us. And all someone has to do is not like you ferociously, and that can make you upset, like you can change-

Suzanne Santo 24:43 I'm not talking about negative spells. I'm talking about, but, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:44 I mean, but I'm just saying that's the beginning of it, right?

Suzanne Santo 24:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:47 Now, if someone has a lot of intention-

Suzanne Santo 24:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:49 ... and they put intention-

Suzanne Santo 24:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:50 ... on you, like, having a terrible life or you getting diseases-

Suzanne Santo 24:54 Mm-hmm.

24:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:54 ... and you get... and then... and you hear about that, it probably fucks with your head. I mean, that's what voodoo is probably all about.

Suzanne Santo 24:59 For sure. And for all intensive purposes-

Joe Rogan 25:01 Sure.

Suzanne Santo 25:01 ... I think there are ramifications if that is the trajectory. If you're, like, really, like, putting bad vibes into something-

Joe Rogan 25:07 Yeah, you'll have sucks.

Suzanne Santo 25:08 ... it's gonna come back in a really shitty way.

Joe Rogan 25:10 They, but they only do it because their life sucks.

Suzanne Santo 25:12 I think that the things that a... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:13 I think people that do shit like that, they do it because their life sucks.

Ben Jaffe 25:16 Let's hope their lives get better.

Suzanne Santo 25:17 Sure, yeah, let's give a response.

Joe Rogan 25:17 Let's do that. Let's give them the tools-

Suzanne Santo 25:20 This is for, for them. Actually, no.

Ben Jaffe 25:21 No, it's not.

Suzanne Santo 25:21 This is for... (strings strum) We're gonna play Big Man?

Ben Jaffe 25:23 Yeah. (strings strum)

Suzanne Santo 25:24 Yeah, we wanna do this, uh-

Joe Rogan 25:25 This is for them. (strings strum)

Ben Jaffe 25:27 No.

Joe Rogan 25:27 No?

Suzanne Santo 25:27 No, no, no.

Ben Jaffe 25:28 Matt's got another idea, but I, I agree. (strings strum)

Joe Rogan 25:30 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 25:30 No, we, we, a lot of the lyrics-

Suzanne Santo 25:31 Yeah, we wanna dedicate this to George Floyd.

Ben Jaffe 25:33 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 25:33 Because, uh, you know, his nickname was Big Floyd, or Big... Right?

Ben Jaffe 25:36 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 25:37 I, I didn't, obviously didn't know him.

Ben Jaffe 25:38 Well, not all of the lyrics-

Suzanne Santo 25:39 But-

Ben Jaffe 25:39 ... line up, but it, it does... It's an homage to a great man who, who passed originally, and it just feels apropos.

Joe Rogan 25:48 To do it now.

Ben Jaffe 25:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:49 Yeah. Cool. (guitar strumming)

Ben Jaffe 25:52 Can you face me a little bit? Like that, see. (guitar strumming) (clears throat)

Suzanne Santo 26:07 Oh, how they cried when the big man died. They spilled buckets out of their eyes. Plain white faces and plain gravestones. He took that white cocaine up his nose. Sing for the big man, baby. Down by the river and the railroad tracks. Baby ain't happy that he's gone. But that won't bring him back to life, no. When he went down, there was a trembling poor. And they came far and wide to the funeral. When the people showed up, they were broken-willed. They drank all day and they popped pills. Sing for that big man, baby. Down by the river and the railroad tracks. Baby ain't happy that he's gone. But that won't bring him back to life, no. (violin playing) (guitar strumming) Bones buried young, bones buried deep. Bones I won't shake now lay to sleep. And he looks down or he looks up. He was a good man, that was enough. Sing for that big man, baby. Down by the river and the railroad tracks. Baby ain't happy that he's gone. But that won't bring him back to life, no. Sing for that big man, baby. Down by the river and the railroad tracks. Baby ain't happy that he's gone. But that won't bring him back to life, no.

Ben Jaffe 28:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:01 (clapping) Whew.

Suzanne Santo 29:08 Oh, shit.

Ben Jaffe 29:10 That was tough. That was just so-

Joe Rogan 29:10 No, that's so good.

Ben Jaffe 29:11 We got through it. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 29:13 It's just all this stuff that's been going on lately.

Ben Jaffe 29:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:16 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 29:16 You know? It's-

Joe Rogan 29:17 It was heavy.

Suzanne Santo 29:18 ... nerves coming on.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Dedicating it to George Floyd, I'm like, "Jesus, what are you doing?" (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 29:22 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 29:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:23 Woo!

Suzanne Santo 29:23 Yeah, it's-

Ben Jaffe 29:24 Uh-

Suzanne Santo 29:25 Everybody, yeah. ... it's obviously an intense time.

Joe Rogan 29:27 I think, uh, ultimately, society needed this. That they need, didn't need that guy to die, but they needed this event to snap out of whatever, whatever bullshit relationship, particularly the Black community has with police. And the videos that have come out since of, of police officers doing shit while this is all going on, during this... Like, it's like they have a, they have a, a pattern, some of these cops. They can't break out of it. They're, they're used-

Ben Jaffe 29:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:57 ... to treating people like shit.

Ben Jaffe 29:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:58 They're used to violently assaulting people.

Ben Jaffe 30:00 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 30:00 Yes, they direct it.

Joe Rogan 30:01 There's so much of it. There's so much crazy shit of guys using batons on women just standing there.

Ben Jaffe 30:06 Oh, God. I know it's-

Joe Rogan 30:06 The girl's just standing there and he's using a baton on the front of her thighs and throws her onto the ground. I'm like, "Fucking come on, man."

Suzanne Santo 30:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:13 "How are you doing this?" 'Cause someone won't comply. Like, the position of being a person that gets that ki- that has that kind of power over people, where p- people have to comply to you, is just psychologically-

Suzanne Santo 30:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:25 ... fraught with peril. You know? Whether it's Black people or... There's a lot of it doing with white people. There's a, there's a horrible video on my friend Joe Schilling's page. Um, Joe, you know, Joe Schilling the kickboxer? He's got a, a page on his Instagram he's been putting post after post is police brutality shit.

Ben Jaffe 30:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:41 Post after post.

Ben Jaffe 30:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:42 It's like, "Is this to serve or protect?"

Ben Jaffe 30:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:44 And it's just this old man, and the guy has a cane-

Ben Jaffe 30:46 No, I don't think...

30:46 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 30:46 ... and the cops are slamming into him with their shield, and he goes flying and falls and hits his head on a bike rack.

Suzanne Santo 30:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:51 It's fucking horrible.

Ben Jaffe 30:53 It's horrible.

Joe Rogan 30:53 All the... I mean, there's some- That is, that has been going on.

Ben Jaffe 30:58 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 30:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:58 It's been going on in the Black community clearly. We have a, a shitload of evidence. It's been going on with all kinds of people.

Ben Jaffe 31:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:06 It's, it's an overall problem.

Ben Jaffe 31:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:07 There's a, there's a racism component to it-

Ben Jaffe 31:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:10 ... but the problem is police brutality.

Ben Jaffe 31:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:12 It's-

Ben Jaffe 31:13 I was reading about, um, so 40% of police officers have sleep disorders, uh, and PTSD.

Suzanne Santo 31:19 Oh, God.

Ben Jaffe 31:19 So they're just constantly, uh, 40% of police officers have sleep disorders and admit to error on the job, i.e. falling asleep in their cruisers.

Joe Rogan 31:27 Ugh.

Ben Jaffe 31:27 Uh, uh, violent acts, anger issues, and, you know, a lot of... I was, I'm trying to understand-... as much as possible 'cause it's so fucking sensitive and-

Joe Rogan 31:37 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 31:37 Well, and I mean, they need to apply the same rehabilitative mindset-

Ben Jaffe 31:41 Right.

Suzanne Santo 31:41 ... to the police force as people are calling for in communities of color as well.

Ben Jaffe 31:45 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 31:45 Obviously, it has to be a, a joint-

Joe Rogan 31:46 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 31:47 ... effort.

Joe Rogan 31:47 100%.

Ben Jaffe 31:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:48 Look, they have to do something. Th-

Suzanne Santo 31:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:49 And, and so- something has to be done to psychologically address what the real consequences of seeing violence and murder and horrible, horrible things every day.

Ben Jaffe 31:58 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:59 E- every day. There's gotta be, there's a cycle, there's a s- a price you're paying if that's what you're doing with your life. Like, you're, you open the door, a guy killed himself with a shotgun. Oh, Jesus.

Ben Jaffe 32:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:08 Just brain splattered all over the wall. Open the door, there's a girl who was raped and stabbed. Oh, Jesus Christ. You know, open the door, there's someone who just ha- overdosed from fentanyl.

Ben Jaffe 32:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:16 They're 18 years old.

Suzanne Santo 32:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:16 Like, that's what you're seeing all day long.

Ben Jaffe 32:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:19 You're, you're, you're just always like, "Fucking d- ugh."

Suzanne Santo 32:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:22 And then y- you-

Ben Jaffe 32:22 And it's amazing that-

Suzanne Santo 32:23 And the solution isn't to just pay them more. Like, "Oh, here, here's hazard pay."

Ben Jaffe 32:26 No.

Joe Rogan 32:26 Or ... Well, my friend, Dakota Meyer. Dakota Meyer is a, um, a guy who, uh, served overseas and had some hor- horrific instances where he literally had to fight a man to the death and kill him with a rock, you know. And-

Ben Jaffe 32:39 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 32:40 Yeah, yeah. Heavy shit. And he talked about it on the podcast and I was like, "Fuck." You know, I mean, they were ... He's-

Suzanne Santo 32:47 (laughs) What was the context of that?

Joe Rogan 32:47 He's fighting for his life with this guy 'cause they were in war.

Suzanne Santo 32:49 War.

Joe Rogan 32:49 The guy was the enemy and-

Ben Jaffe 32:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:51 ... y- he had to kill a bunch of guys that day and, and save his friend. It's a, it's a crazy story that's best told by him. But, uh, anyway, point is, he was talking about this shot that they're doing on, um, p- uh, soldiers with PTSD.

Ben Jaffe 33:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:06 It was, it's some kind of a blocker shot. You remember that shot, Jamie?

Ben Jaffe 33:09 Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:10 I could text him if we have to, but they give it to, um, soldiers and people with PTSD. And whatever that anxiety is, all that fucking pent-up shit that just, you just can't be normal, it goes away. And it, it can last for as long as a year. But it gives you-

Ben Jaffe 33:25 What?

Joe Rogan 33:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah. There it is.

Ben Jaffe 33:27 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 33:27 It's the shot, it's called-

Suzanne Santo 33:29 Stellate ganglion block.

Ben Jaffe 33:29 There's gotta be some weird-

Joe Rogan 33:30 Yeah, stellate ganglion block. It's administered by healthcare professionals into the neck of an individual who's currently suffering from PTSD. The treatment is not a cure for PTSD. Um, he was talking about how amazing it was.

Suzanne Santo 33:42 Wow.

Joe Rogan 33:42 He wa- he was saying it ga- well, see right there with that second article there? It said something about prolonged relief for the debilitating symptoms? Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 33:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Um, it's, it's not a cure, however it's a highly effective, well-tolerated, fast-acting, inexpensive biologic technique that provides prolonged relief from the debilitating symptoms of PTSD. See, I think-

Ben Jaffe 34:01 They just start doing that? Is that a, like, a brand new thing?

Joe Rogan 34:04 I think it's r- yeah, yeah. I think it's pretty recent. But I also think that, um, y- y- w- y- like, your brain, when it encounters a lot of things that are awful, I think it really alters the chemistry of your brain. I, I think it really off- i- it alters your ability to make good decisions. Like, you could, you can make a real-

Suzanne Santo 34:21 Sure.

Joe Rogan 34:21 ... rational case that they're almost intoxicated.

Ben Jaffe 34:24 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 34:25 100%. When they're running on adrenaline.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Right. When you see these cops ... Did you see when they were clearing out the square for Trump to, uh-

Suzanne Santo 34:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:31 ... have his Bible photo op?

Ben Jaffe 34:33 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:34 (hums)

Ben Jaffe 34:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:34 You've got cops slamming into people. Like, how do they get that ramped up that they're doing that? Could you ever do that? Would you just walk right up to someone and slam them with a shield? Of course you wouldn't.

Suzanne Santo 34:42 No.

Joe Rogan 34:42 Like, you have to get-

Suzanne Santo 34:43 These guys are terrified too, obviously.

Joe Rogan 34:45 Right. The cops are terrified, for sure. But you have to get-

Suzanne Santo 34:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:47 ... to a point where you can do that.

Ben Jaffe 34:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:49 Right? There's, something has to happen.

Ben Jaffe 34:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:50 Well, it's a biologic drug that your body's producing.

Ben Jaffe 34:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:54 And these guys are junkies. They're adrenaline junkies.

Ben Jaffe 34:55 Yeah. I mean, I, literally, like I, I told you about the therapy I just did. This is, like, what I've been trying to, like, weed out of my life, is my, uh, insomnia and, and get my, my brain levels and my ... You know, I've just been running on adrenaline. And now that I'm, like, leveling out, it's so weird to live. Uh, I can f- I can function better. I can process my stress-

Joe Rogan 35:18 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 35:18 ... in a way that I never could for over a decade. And the, you know, the reason I was, I, I was reading about the, uh, Serocet. Um, I think they did this study. I'll send it to you at some point and we c- could probably post it. But, you know, the, the conditions that police officers are under physically, like, from night shifts, just to stress, to what you said, opening the door and seeing all these just horrifying things, and not having the therapeutic elements and rehabilitation. And then you factor in racism or, or just discrimination. Like, I mean, it is, it's a lethal combination and it's so crazy to just see it like we are every day now. It's just ou- all out in the open. And now it's like, what do we do to help these people, like, get to the point, the place that they're supposed to be, which is protecting us and not-

Joe Rogan 36:02 Well, you gotta clean house.

Ben Jaffe 36:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:04 You gotta clean house. You gotta go in there and you gotta get rid of anyone who exhibits any sort of behavior like that in any way, in any abusive ... You can't have any abuse.

Ben Jaffe 36:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:15 'Cause you have an extraordinary ability to control people. You, you're not allowed, a normal person is not allowed to treat people like that. So for you to be able to do that, you have to show that you're an unusual person.

Ben Jaffe 36:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:25 You're, you're a powerful person.

Ben Jaffe 36:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Like, you can control it. You c- you can be a good person even under the pressure of conflict. L- like, life or death conflict on a daily basis.

Suzanne Santo 36:35 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 36:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:35 That's not a normal person.

Ben Jaffe 36:36 No, it's not.

Joe Rogan 36:36 And by the way, when these guys are in it 15, 20 years, like, how fucking sick are they by 20 years?

Suzanne Santo 36:42 And how unprepared are they when they've been training for six months? And boom-

Joe Rogan 36:46 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 36:46 ... done. You're out on the street.

Joe Rogan 36:47 How about a day?

Ben Jaffe 36:47 Well, and they're 18.

Suzanne Santo 36:48 First day on the job.

Joe Rogan 36:48 They don't know.

Ben Jaffe 36:49 A lot of cops, a lot of cops sign up for, uh, law enforcement when they're fucking 18 years old.

Joe Rogan 36:53 Yeah. Crazy. Your brain's not even fully formed.

Ben Jaffe 36:55 You're not even ... No.

Joe Rogan 36:55 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 36:55 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 36:56 Exactly.

Ben Jaffe 36:56 Like, that, that in and of itself, you get, like, a big, strong kid.

Joe Rogan 37:00 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 37:00 You know. And I'm, I'm, I'm primarily speaking about men. You know, I'm sure women could do it too, but, like, it's different. And, you know, their brain's not fully formed and then their life is in your ha- (laughs) or your life is in their hands. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:11 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 37:11 It's like, what?

Joe Rogan 37:12 Well-

Suzanne Santo 37:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:13 ... another thing that came out of this whole COVID thing, and then with this coming afterwards, it's like-... when, when you're dealing with perpetually, perpetually crime-ridden neighborhoods, like if them, they've had crime in them forever, and, uh, a lot of these neighborhoods are African American neighborhoods that have had crime. Like, whether it's the South Side of Chicago or, uh, outside of Baltimore, like, when you see how the government can spend so much money bailing out corporations that are fucked-

Ben Jaffe 37:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:41 ... but they don't bail out cities that are fucked-

Ben Jaffe 37:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:44 Like, you know ... Hold on, you knew Baltimore was fucked.

Suzanne Santo 37:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:48 Like, no one had any questions whether parts of Baltimore were just fucked. In fact, there was laws that used to redline. You weren't allowed to buy a house-

Ben Jaffe 37:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:56 ... in certain areas if you were an African American. So, we know that.

Ben Jaffe 38:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:00 So, how come you bail out corporations, as you never bailed out these inner cities? It would've cost a fraction-

Suzanne Santo 38:07 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 38:07 ... to set up community centers, build more be- bet- much better affordable housing. You, you w-

Suzanne Santo 38:12 Because leadership is too short-sighted for that. And that, that's-

Joe Rogan 38:15 But-

Suzanne Santo 38:15 ... like a spiritual deficit.

Joe Rogan 38:17 But what's crazy is they all want to pretend that they're pro-American. If you were pro-American, you would want less losers. You would li- want more people-

Suzanne Santo 38:26 Sure.

Joe Rogan 38:26 ... that have an opportunity to get out of bad circumstances. And whatever those bad circumstances are, you'd wanna keep people safe.

Suzanne Santo 38:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:33 You'd wanna ... Even if we ... You, you're always gonna run into bad circumstances with people that have drug addictions or people ... You're not gonna cure all that. That's a human issue. Humans are crazy. You're not gonna stop broken families and all that stuff. That's just a part of being a person, but you can-

Ben Jaffe 38:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:48 ... do a way better job of protecting people from crime, a way better job-

Ben Jaffe 38:52 Sure. Well-

Joe Rogan 38:52 ... of insulating them from-

Ben Jaffe 38:55 You-

Joe Rogan 38:55 ... drug deals and all that crazy shit.

Suzanne Santo 38:57 Sure.

Ben Jaffe 38:57 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 38:57 Or shielding them or, or integrating people in a healthier way into an economic system that addresses their needs.

Joe Rogan 39:04 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 39:04 You know? And, but that's what we're so vulnerable from, from a leadership perspective.

Ben Jaffe 39:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:10 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 39:10 Because of lobbying and because it's just, like, a natural instinct-

Ben Jaffe 39:14 Well-

Suzanne Santo 39:14 ... to, uh, self-protectionism and, like, "Well, I gotta make sure that my family's taken care of first and not-"

Ben Jaffe 39:18 Well-

Joe Rogan 39:18 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 39:19 ... the cornerstone speech that, uh, Killer Mike encouraged people to read, did you guys read that?

Suzanne Santo 39:24 I seen it, yeah, I mean-

Ben Jaffe 39:24 It's, it, it's really intense and, you know, it, it was written by, uh, I ... Name's escaping me-

Suzanne Santo 39:30 Vice President of the Confederacy.

Ben Jaffe 39:30 ... but like a Confederate. Yeah, okay, the Vice Pres- I was gonna say president or Vice President of the Confederacy. And, like, for all intents and purposes, like, the first half of the, of the speech was, like, pretty logical in terms of commerce and how to care for your cities and, like, you know, just, uh, you know, e- economics. And then, he just gets down to this part where he talks about, uh, African Americans as, like, you know, they're subhuman. Like, they're not, they're not actual ... Like, like, it's just so clear-cut and dry in his mind that the superior race is white by God. He was quoting th- the Bible. And, like, like, thousands and millions of people, millions of people, like, followed that ethos. And that doesn't just go away. You know? There ... So, like, in terms of redlining, when people wanna know why, um, you know, ghettos, it's so hard to get out of the ghetto, you know, like, this has been made by design and even further back, just the thought that, like, bl- yeah, Black people are the slaves. Like, they're, they're beneath us so they need to be in their place an- And, like, it's just nuts, like, to read this speech. It was ... And to think about how many people were behind it. And that's what we're up against, even though it was f- three or 400 years ago. Was that what it was, 1600s?

Suzanne Santo 40:43 18, uh-

Joe Rogan 40:44 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 40:44 Fuck, sorry.

Suzanne Santo 40:45 ... 1860s.

Joe Rogan 40:45 What's weird walking in-

Ben Jaffe 40:47 Cool. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:49 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 40:49 ... 980 BC.

Joe Rogan 40:49 ... being an adult-

Ben Jaffe 40:50 Thank you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:50 ... being an adult in 2020-

Ben Jaffe 40:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:53 ... right? And not having anything to do with anything that happened in the 1800s, but you walk into the wake of, of that era, into the echo of that era. It's not that long ago.

Suzanne Santo 41:04 Not at all.

Joe Rogan 41:04 'Cause 150 years ago, there was ... 152 years ago, they were slaves. That's crazy.

Ben Jaffe 41:09 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 41:10 That's not even two lifetimes.

Suzanne Santo 41:11 Yeah, that's a blink of an eye.

Joe Rogan 41:12 That's a blink of an eye.

Ben Jaffe 41:12 It's not that long ago.

Joe Rogan 41:13 Yeah. And what's really crazy is, like, we, we have, uh, a thing that we do with Native Americans, right? We kind of acknowledge that our settler, the European settlers, the original great, w- whether they're your relatives or not, mine aren't, mine all came third, I'm third generation-

Suzanne Santo 41:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:32 ... so, uh, my family arrived in the 20th century. But the people that arrived earlier than that, like, if your family goes all the way back to 1600, there's some fucking Native American blood on your hands, son.

Suzanne Santo 41:43 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 41:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:44 It just, it just is. If you go, "Well, my father was in the railroad business." Oh, God.

Ben Jaffe 41:48 Oh, shit. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 41:49 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 41:49 How did he get that fucking railroad through Indian country?

Ben Jaffe 41:52 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 41:52 You had to kill some people, man.

Ben Jaffe 41:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:54 Like-

Ben Jaffe 41:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:55 So, w- the United States has kind of acknowledged that they fucked up when they gave the Native Americans reservations. That was the whole idea is, like-

Suzanne Santo 42:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:03 ... you can have your own laws. You can make casinos. You can do wild shit. You can do it all right here. Okay? We're just gonna leave you alone.

Ben Jaffe 42:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:10 But it's, it's real slippery, right?

Ben Jaffe 42:13 But they didn't-

Suzanne Santo 42:13 They didn't, uh, you know, that's a false promise, like, all the other-

Ben Jaffe 42:14 Yeah, they didn't leave them alone.

Suzanne Santo 42:15 ... false promises.

Joe Rogan 42:15 Oh, yeah.

Ben Jaffe 42:16 Once they started finding, you know, wealth on their lands, then they, it got even worse.

Suzanne Santo 42:19 Yeah, she's on your, your, what's that book-

Joe Rogan 42:20 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 42:20 I just finished, I just read this book called Killers of the Flower Moon, which is just, uh, uh- uh, a horrifying, um, thing that happened in our history that is not well-known, uh, with the Osage Native American tribe in Oklahoma, and they were all forced onto this reg- reservation. And it turned out to be millions and millions of dollars rich in oil.

Joe Rogan 42:41 Oh.

Ben Jaffe 42:41 And then, all of the members of the tribe were given head rights and they, uh, every year, uh, all these white people would come in. And it, they would, they would, like, rent their land, basically, for, for oil rigs. And they, each member of the tribe had millions of dollars, but the, the government didn't recognize them as full citizens, so they were given stewards to manage their wealth. So, a lot of them were living in poverty-

Joe Rogan 43:07 (gasps) .

Ben Jaffe 43:07 ... while their fucking babysitters were robbing them, murdering them. And the whole book is about this-

Suzanne Santo 43:13 (laughs) So twisted. It's so twisted.

Ben Jaffe 43:13 ... series of murders and also how the FBI was bi- birthed.

Joe Rogan 43:16 Oh, my God. Damn the FBI again?

Ben Jaffe 43:18 So, the FBI-

Joe Rogan 43:19 Again? Again these fucks.

Ben Jaffe 43:19 Yeah, so Hoover- Hoover used this as his, um, platform c- because... But the sad part is there was, like, three dudes that went to jail for killing, like, 25 people. One, they weren't given... They weren't put to death because no white jury could kill them for, uh, for killing Native Americans 'cause they weren't considered full human. They were, like, half.

Joe Rogan 43:41 Jamie, send me a picture of that. That's crazy.

Ben Jaffe 43:43 It's- it's insane and it's heartbreaking. And it- it really echoes what's going on now with the way that- that Black people are treated. It's like people didn't give a fuck about Native Americans and, like... And then they got rich and then they're like, "Let's fuck 'em again." You know? Like, "Let's make sure that they, like... We can still steal from them." Like, it's horrifying. But the thing is there's no... There was no justice for their murderers. And there were so... It was like a coup. There were just so many people that would come in and marry an Osage tribe member and then murder them-

Joe Rogan 44:12 Just to get the money.

Ben Jaffe 44:12 ... just to get their head rights.

Joe Rogan 44:13 Oh, my God.

Ben Jaffe 44:13 Yeah. It's nuts.

Joe Rogan 44:14 So many dead bodies.

Ben Jaffe 44:14 Was it- was it mostly chicks mar- murdering dudes? No, it was everything. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:18 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 44:18 They poisoned them a lot.

Joe Rogan 44:20 Good thing.

Ben Jaffe 44:20 They... There was a lot of poisoning.

Joe Rogan 44:22 I got a... What is this, Jamie?

Ben Jaffe 44:23 It's the new, uh... This book was just optioned into the new Martin Scorsese-

44:27 No shit. (groaning) What? Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 44:30 Wow, Suze. Look what you just did on the Joe Rogan podcast. You made it happen.

Ben Jaffe 44:35 Suz, you just did that. You just did that.

44:35 Wow. I think it's an o- I think it's an old book. I think it's a pretty old book.

44:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that... It's not brand new, but yeah, the cover just came out.

Joe Rogan 44:40 But they just... They just turned it into a movie.

Ben Jaffe 44:41 I- I literally picked it up at my parents' house when I was in quarantine.

Joe Rogan 44:43 That's amazing. DiCaprio... Martin Scorsese, De Niro, and DiCaprio. Um, I'm gonna say... I'm gonna say Bam.

Ben Jaffe 44:48 It was that or Lord of the Flies. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:49 I'm gonna say Bam.

Suzanne Santo 44:50 Titties.

Ben Jaffe 44:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:51 Bam.

Suzanne Santo 44:52 Titties.

Ben Jaffe 44:52 Wow.

Joe Rogan 44:53 That's amazing. Leo strikes again.

Ben Jaffe 44:55 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 44:56 I did... I c- really got into a- a big, long stretch of being fascinated with Native American history, uh, from a book somebody recommended to me called Empire of the Summer Moon about the Comanche.

Suzanne Santo 45:07 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:07 And, uh, it... It's really, like, why Texas is the way Texas is. Texas is the way Texas is mostly because they fought off the fucking Comanches.

Suzanne Santo 45:17 'Cause of the conflict with the Comanches.

Ben Jaffe 45:17 Wow.

Joe Rogan 45:17 Yeah, the people that had to g-... Mexico was so sneaky. Mexico was, uh, telling white people to move to Texas. They're like, "Yeah, my friend, it's a good place." They- they- they- (laughs) they tricked these people into moving into Texas because it was a buffer between them and the Comanche. They wanted a bu-... The Comanche were the fucking wildest, most ruthless band of Indians and the most successful, uh, out of all the West. It took hundreds of years to conquer them. They're the reason why people didn't make it all the way to California sooner. The- the... When they would go through the plains, the Comanches would fuck them up.

Ben Jaffe 45:51 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 45:52 It... It... The fucking... That book is fascinating.

Ben Jaffe 45:54 Yeah, it's on my list.

Joe Rogan 45:55 It changed my, changed my perspective of what happened in the West.

Ben Jaffe 45:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:59 Like, you realize that there was some people that came over here from somewhere in the neighborhood of between 11,000 and 5,000 BC. They made it across the Bering Land Bridge from Asia into America. They were basically the same kinda people that lived in Siberia, and they were Stone Age when they got here. They weren't even on horseback and they lived that way for thousands and thousands and thousands of years exactly the same way. And it wasn't until the 1600s that they started riding horses.

Ben Jaffe 46:30 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:30 And then they started dominating motherfuckers.

Ben Jaffe 46:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:32 It was like this giant shift in who they were. Before, they were, like, really unsuccessful in war. They had no history.

Ben Jaffe 46:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:39 They had no songs. They had no stories and very little artwork. All they did is, like, eat rats and squirrels and whatever they could kill and barely scratched by and stayed alive. But they figured out how to ride horses first. They figured out how to control horses better.

Suzanne Santo 46:53 Yeah. When they did misbehaved-

Joe Rogan 46:53 And they figured out how to steal other people's hor- horses because they... Life was so hard. They were so, so scratch and claw that they were ruthless. So once they got horses, they were just these wild little str- scrappy motherfuckers who would run, run these horses around and kill everybody.

Ben Jaffe 47:08 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 47:08 And they figured out how to shoot off horses, and the white people didn't know how to do that yet. The white people would get off the horses and go, "Hmm."

Ben Jaffe 47:14 Yeah. "Let's line up." Wait, wait, wait, wait. We gotta get up. You have to... You stand there and then on three."

47:19 They were getting into... They were shooting, like, an arrow a second. They were like ping, ping, ping running on the horses-

47:25 (laughs)

47:25 Fucking these dudes up until no one... Until they figured out how to make a revolver, until they figured out a way a gun that shoots more than once, 'cause those muskets weren't cutting it.

47:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:34 And, like, they just kept getting fucked up. That's Texas.

Ben Jaffe 47:36 When- when was the revolver birthed?

Joe Rogan 47:37 It was all during that time.

Ben Jaffe 47:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 47:39 The Texas Rangers were the first to incorporate the revolver against the Comanche. They d-... The Texas Rangers became the Texas Rangers because of this fucking unbelievably ruthless tribe of Indians that dominated the area.

Suzanne Santo 47:52 Breathe.

Joe Rogan 47:52 So these dudes, instead of being like regular soldiers, adopted the way of the Comanche.

Ben Jaffe 47:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:57 They wore buckskin clothes. They slept without fires.

Ben Jaffe 48:01 The Texas Rangers.

Joe Rogan 48:01 Yes.

Ben Jaffe 48:02 Yeah. The, uh...

Joe Rogan 48:02 They were fucking savages.

Ben Jaffe 48:04 A lot of the-

Joe Rogan 48:04 They out-savaged the Comanches.

Ben Jaffe 48:05 A lot of the, uh, FBI agents that were commissioned to find the killers in the Osage, uh, murders, they were ex-Texas Rangers.

Joe Rogan 48:13 Plus it's an amazing Chuck Norris TV show.

Ben Jaffe 48:16 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 48:16 What the heck?

Joe Rogan 48:17 What?

Ben Jaffe 48:18 God.

Suzanne Santo 48:18 Lonesome Dove? Come on.

Joe Rogan 48:19 Come on.

Suzanne Santo 48:19 You ever get into Lonesome Dove?

Ben Jaffe 48:20 Lonesome Dove.

Joe Rogan 48:20 Uh, no. I'm not... Never got into Lonesome Dove.

Ben Jaffe 48:22 Tell us, Ben. Tell us.

Suzanne Santo 48:23 That's just a incredible book, I mean, about two retired Texas Rangers.

Joe Rogan 48:27 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 48:27 But it- it's just, like, a classic Western novel.

Ben Jaffe 48:30 Link us up.

Joe Rogan 48:30 I actually have it on, uh, audiobook.

Suzanne Santo 48:32 Drag it open.

Joe Rogan 48:32 I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Suzanne Santo 48:34 Let's do it.

Ben Jaffe 48:34 Get open.

Joe Rogan 48:34 I will once I've watched all the Texas Rangers with Chuck Norris again.

Suzanne Santo 48:37 Yeah, you just that first and then... (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 48:39 Wait, do we have any Deadwood fans in the house here?

Suzanne Santo 48:41 You gotta re-watch?

Ben Jaffe 48:42 Anybody?

Suzanne Santo 48:42 Re-watch.

Joe Rogan 48:42 Deadwood bothered me 'cause they swore so much.

Ben Jaffe 48:45 No. What?

Joe Rogan 48:45 They swore so much. I was like-

Ben Jaffe 48:46 I'm sorry, what?

Joe Rogan 48:47 ... "That's not real."

Suzanne Santo 48:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:48 That's not how they talked back then.

Ben Jaffe 48:49 Oh no, well you, it's- it's got a theatrical element. It's a little, like, Shakespearean in a way.

Suzanne Santo 48:53 It is, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 48:53 But-

Ben Jaffe 48:53 What?

Joe Rogan 48:54 Yeah, but it was-

Ben Jaffe 48:54 Oh, thank you. Thanks for looking out.

Joe Rogan 48:56 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 48:56 Just checking in.

Ben Jaffe 48:56 I love you. Thanks. I'm not... I'm- I'm supposed to drink slowly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:00 Oh, you'll be fine. It's just your daddy.

Suzanne Santo 49:02 Dude's like, "I'm okay. I'm drinking a muddy."

Joe Rogan 49:03 Trust me. Trust me.

Ben Jaffe 49:03 He's my friend.

Joe Rogan 49:03 I'm your friend, too.

Ben Jaffe 49:04 He's my good friend because we're on the Joe Rogan podcast and I don't wanna be a fucking dickhead. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:09 Listen, you're not gonna be, but don't en- hinder yourself either.

Ben Jaffe 49:12 Well, I haven't drank in a month. I'm sensitive.

Joe Rogan 49:15 Mm. You look fine. Everything's going great.

Ben Jaffe 49:17 It's... (gags)

Suzanne Santo 49:17 Oh God. We lost her.

Joe Rogan 49:19 Everything's fine.

Suzanne Santo 49:20 And she's back.

Joe Rogan 49:21 Don't- don't worry. Are you n- not drinking on purpose? Just give yourself a little cleanse?

Ben Jaffe 49:24 No, I did my Serocet therapy and I've... This is, like, my- my month's up and I can get... I can start living again.

Joe Rogan 49:30 Nice.

Ben Jaffe 49:30 But I've... My brain's in a good place.

Suzanne Santo 49:32 No life without alcohol.

Joe Rogan 49:34 This is good alcohol. (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 49:35 Let me tell you-

Suzanne Santo 49:36 It's pretty tasty, right?

Ben Jaffe 49:36 ... it's been really-

Joe Rogan 49:37 Very good.

Ben Jaffe 49:37 ... hard not to drink this month.

Joe Rogan 49:38 I'm sure.

Ben Jaffe 49:39 Let's be-

Suzanne Santo 49:39 Thank you, Nathan Green.

Ben Jaffe 49:39 ... quite clear.

Joe Rogan 49:40 Yeah. Well-

Ben Jaffe 49:41 But I'm back. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:41 ... they say because of coronavirus, alcohol consumption was up and then-

Ben Jaffe 49:45 Up.

Joe Rogan 49:45 ... because these riots and all this, I'm sure it's up again, another notch.

Ben Jaffe 49:48 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:49 The, the looting and the riots and people breaking into-

Ben Jaffe 49:51 People-

Joe Rogan 49:52 ... people's homes and shit.

Suzanne Santo 49:53 But, yeah, vulnerable people just slammed-

Joe Rogan 49:56 (snapping) Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 49:57 ... every stop of the way.

Joe Rogan 49:58 Yeah. Well, we gotta get through this as a race, I think, having a big moment. Like, if we need a correction, we definitely needed a correction, we still do, we need to be... We need to c- we need so many corrections, right? We need a correction in terms of our, our thought on war-

Ben Jaffe 50:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:12 ... our thought on international conflict, the way we treat each other. We need corrections on all that, but it takes, like, a big event sometimes to make-

Ben Jaffe 50:19 This is it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:19 Yeah.

Ben Jaffe 50:20 I mean, it's like-

Suzanne Santo 50:21 That, but, you know-

Joe Rogan 50:21 Completely restructuring of how we, we view each other. But you also have to be careful of bad players. There's a lot of bad actors in these things that step in and they-

Ben Jaffe 50:29 No, that's the scary part.

Joe Rogan 50:30 ... they want you, you know, they wanna take advantage of people and they want people to comply with their ideology and they try to push things and say, "If you don't go along with this, you know, we know where you stand, we know where you are, you, you're on the other side." And-

Ben Jaffe 50:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:42 ... you get forced into some weird compliance.

Suzanne Santo 50:44 Sure.

Joe Rogan 50:44 You gotta be real careful about that 'cause again, it's sort of the same thing you see with bad cops. When people have power over people, even if it's just psychic power, when people have power over people, they abuse it.

Ben Jaffe 50:54 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 50:54 Well, having a revolution after revolution, you look at the French Revolution or something like that-

Joe Rogan 50:59 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 50:59 ... you know, they tear it down in the name of liberty and then they're just (imitates chopping) killing people left and right.

Joe Rogan 51:03 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 51:03 So it's, you know, there's a pattern that we can examine. But I think it's important to not... You know, o- obviously these events are catalyzing, but it, it, we don't... What we need to take from the event is that we don't need an event, we have to integrate this stuff.

Joe Rogan 51:17 Well, I think we need an event w- with like what we had, along with accountability. And this is the, what the strange thing about the culture we're living in. A 17-year-old girl was there when, when George Floyd died.

Suzanne Santo 51:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:29 So a 17-year-old girl's cellphone camera changed the world. That's real. So this poor little girl has to deal with... Imagine being a 17-year-old Black girl watching a man get a, a knee put on his chest while he's asking them, "Please let me up. Please, I can't breathe," and you know that guy died and you filmed it and your video gets uploaded and the world just explodes. There are fucking... There, there's protests in Tokyo-

Ben Jaffe 51:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:56 ... protest in Berlin. People are all over the world protesting the death... Uh, um, New Zealand, our friend Stylebender was in one. In New Zealand, on the other side-

Ben Jaffe 52:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:06 ... of the planet Earth.

Ben Jaffe 52:06 People are, people aren't asleep anymore.

Joe Rogan 52:08 Not asleep anymore.

Suzanne Santo 52:08 Well, s- I mean, some people, yeah. But she had a great response too. Did you see that?

Joe Rogan 52:13 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 52:13 Again, she's like, came after her-

Joe Rogan 52:14 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 52:14 ... and saying, "Why didn't you do more?" In that moment-

Ben Jaffe 52:16 Are you... Oh, I didn't know that.

Suzanne Santo 52:17 ... and she had a really cogent and wonderful response about-

Ben Jaffe 52:20 Oh my God.

Suzanne Santo 52:20 ... you know, just contextualizing it.

Joe Rogan 52:22 Listen, man, people just... There's too many people. Pe- if you say people say this or people say that, people tell you you eat your foot, you know, they'll tell you.

Suzanne Santo 52:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:29 "You have to ch- eat your foot if you wanna be in this gang." People are crazy.

Suzanne Santo 52:33 What about the thing with the drinking-

Joe Rogan 52:34 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 52:34 ... uh, you know, bleach or whatever, people did that-

Joe Rogan 52:37 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 52:37 ... and was like, "Oh, no-"

Ben Jaffe 52:38 No.

Joe Rogan 52:38 "No, no, they didn't."

Ben Jaffe 52:39 Did they, though?

Suzanne Santo 52:39 "No, no, no, no, they didn't. They didn't."

Joe Rogan 52:41 Two morons drank the wrong form of hydroxychloroquine that is actually a pond cleaner. It's for fucking koi ponds. These dipshits had it in their garage and they're like, "This is it. This is chloroquine." And-

Ben Jaffe 52:52 Did they die?

Joe Rogan 52:53 One guy died. And th- there's a problem.

Suzanne Santo 52:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:55 And this is the conspiracy theory-

Ben Jaffe 52:55 Well, the guy looks crazy. Sorry. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:57 ... put your tinfoil hat on.

Ben Jaffe 52:58 That's not funny. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:59 They were... Here's the problem.

Suzanne Santo 53:01 Wow, he's crushing it.

Joe Rogan 53:02 They were uh, they were big time Democrats. That's why it doesn't make sense. And the, they were, one of them was a Democrat, uh, candidate contributor, I believe. Make sure that's right, I don't wanna get sued.

Suzanne Santo 53:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:11 But, uh, and people are like, "Wait, you guys are just..." You know, "You're not supposed to do that." Like, "Did you just think you had, magically had this stuff laying around?"

Ben Jaffe 53:19 Yeah, how dumb-

Suzanne Santo 53:19 Well, but I wasn't talking about the hydroxy...

Joe Rogan 53:21 The problem is it's just, it's a random thing where it sounds the same and it's real... It's hydroxychloroquine versus some other kind of chloroquine.

Suzanne Santo 53:29 Yes.

Ben Jaffe 53:29 You sure there wasn't some, like, agenda here? That just seems like ho... I'm sorry. I, I, I don't wanna-

Suzanne Santo 53:34 I'm getting confused then.

Joe Rogan 53:34 It could be.

Ben Jaffe 53:35 I don't wanna disrespect the, uh, the dead/almost dead, like-

Joe Rogan 53:39 Right.

Ben Jaffe 53:39 Uh... (sighs)

Joe Rogan 53:41 Yeah. It could be somebody killed somebody. (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 53:43 Yeah, there you go. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 53:44 That happens.

Joe Rogan 53:45 Lots of weird things happen.

Ben Jaffe 53:46 I don't know what the truth is anymore.

Suzanne Santo 53:48 Yeah, I don't know either.

Ben Jaffe 53:48 I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 53:50 But why would a person who's like a staunch Democrat listen to anything that Trump has to say about taking a medication? You'd be like, "Fuck that guy."

Suzanne Santo 53:57 Uh, nothing about that.

Joe Rogan 53:58 "Fuck that guy."

Ben Jaffe 53:59 Um-

Joe Rogan 53:59 "I'm taking heroin. He's an idiot."

Ben Jaffe 54:01 Uh-

Suzanne Santo 54:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:01 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 54:01 Side bar-

Suzanne Santo 54:02 So much better now.

Ben Jaffe 54:02 ... uh, a good, a good friend of ours, per the Trump Bible photo, uh, my friend sa- our friend said, uh, "Trump holds the Bible like a guitar player who doesn't know how to play guitar." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:12 I said he held it like a dirty diaper.

Ben Jaffe 54:14 He was upside down. Like, it's backwards or some shit. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 54:16 Oh. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 I said he was like a dirty diaper, like, "What do I do with this?"

Suzanne Santo 54:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:18 "Get this fucking thing out of here." (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 54:20 It's fucking awful. Oh, my God.

Suzanne Santo 54:22 Yeah, I don't wanna talk about that guy.

Joe Rogan 54:22 But what a stupid fucking pr- he did that on purpose. Like, he, he, he decided to go do this as a press... Like, like some sort of a publicity opportunity-

Ben Jaffe 54:30 Man, this propaganda shit is f- it's straight hate.

Joe Rogan 54:32 But that's the dumbest publicity opportunity ever. Like, you cl- you literally used-

Ben Jaffe 54:37 (gags)

Joe Rogan 54:37 Do you know that one of the members of the military stepped down, a military advisor? Who, who was the guy that stepped down?

Ben Jaffe 54:41 Ah.

Joe Rogan 54:41 There was a guy that stepped down today. No, no, no, different guy. Stepped down because of that stunt, because of that publicity stunt he stepped down, because he said that the abusive use of force that they used to clear out that square so-

Suzanne Santo 54:53 Yes.

Joe Rogan 54:53 ... Trump could come in for that photo op. He's like, "I'm, I can't be-"

Ben Jaffe 54:56 That's what we need.

Joe Rogan 54:56 "... a part of this."

Ben Jaffe 54:57 That's what we need.

Suzanne Santo 54:58 Yes.

Joe Rogan 54:58 That's what we need.

Ben Jaffe 54:58 That's what we need.

Suzanne Santo 54:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:59 That's why we need videos, we need accountability. And that video, whether he knows it or not, is evidence. Because, look, w- we know there was a fucking protest there. Whether that they all go away and shut up 'cause you're awesome? Get the fuck out of here. Like, you did something. You did something to people that were peacefully protesting.

Ben Jaffe 55:13 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 55:14 And he's scared that maybe he doesn't even know.

Joe Rogan 55:16 There was some shit that I tweeted today too where it's been proven that they used a certain type of t- tear gas that is... You're, you're not supposed to use on people.

Ben Jaffe 55:23 No, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 55:24 It's a... This is like laws... Like, find it on my, uh, here, I'll pull it up while Jimmy's doing that.

Suzanne Santo 55:29 He's, to me, he's like a, he's gonna be like a folk legend, Donald Trump. He's like a, he's like the Paul Bunyan of narcissism. (laughs) It's like-

Ben Jaffe 55:38 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 55:38 You know what I mean? It's like in... So far beyond what-

Joe Rogan 55:42 ... it's understandable-

55:43 Narcissism, you're talking about, is it?

55:43 ... from a human to human.

Suzanne Santo 55:44 No, it's not mad. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:45 Yeah.

55:45 Like, he's like a superhero of narcissism.

Suzanne Santo 55:48 There's a... You know?

Joe Rogan 55:49 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 55:49 Does that make sense?

Joe Rogan 55:49 It makes perfect sense.

55:50 There's a guy who resigned. He resigned today because of the way Trump cleared out that plaza. I was, uh, reading it today on the, on the Google News. Um-

56:02 Good gig.

56:03 It's, um, you know, these videos are there, right?

56:07 Yeah.

56:07 You can't do that to people. And why are they doing that to people? They're doing that to people 'cause they, 'cause they shouldn't be cops.

56:12 Okay, I have a question.

56:13 Pentagon science advisor?

56:14 Seriously.

56:14 What did we-

56:14 Is that who it was?

56:15 No. No, no, no. It happened just today.

56:17 And I-

56:17 Military advisor resigns, right there. Photo op, right there.

56:20 That was a day ago.

Suzanne Santo 56:20 No, it's two days ago. Joe Miller.

Joe Rogan 56:23 That was two days ago.

Suzanne Santo 56:24 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:24 That's two days ago, though.

56:25 That's it, though, Jamie.

56:26 Miller. Not Mattis.

56:26 I know, but this isn't... He didn't resign at- it's not the same.

56:29 Okay. In my Google News feed, it showed up today. Um, for whatever reason. Sometimes you get a Google News feed story from like 7 months ago.

56:35 James Miller resigns from Pentagon slayings.

56:36 But go, but go back to that article. When it... Why did you-

56:38 It says... 'Cause it's, there's a pop-up thing on it.

56:40 Oh, you can't get outta there?

56:42 I'm trying to get a better one. (laughs)

56:44 (laughs)

56:44 (laughs)

56:44 Jamie. Jamie.

56:45 Jamie did mention you guys were talking about a drum set. I don't know if he said that to you.

56:49 (laughs)

56:49 No.

56:49 (laughs)

56:49 Right when we get here, Ben's like, "Do you, do you wanna... Uh, you should have a drum set." Like, why the fuck would I want a drum set?

56:53 Why doesn't... He said, "Why don't you have a drum set?"

56:55 Yeah, Joe's just... Yeah. (laughs)

56:56 I'm like, "Why would I have a drum set?"

56:57 Joe is just not interested at all off the bat.

56:57 And he was like, "If people wanna play the drums."

56:59 Which I don't understand.

57:00 (laughs)

57:00 He's like, "What if Jamie wants to play the drums?"

57:02 "People wanna play the drums."

57:04 I go...

57:04 I... Uh, look, I made it clear, my intentions.

57:05 (laughs)

57:05 I'm like, "If Jamie wanted to play the drums, he would just get a drum set and bring it here." Like, that's fucked.

57:10 (laughs)

57:10 So really, it's on you, Jamie. Yeah, sorry. I was trying to re-... I... Too many things going on.

57:14 (laughs)

57:14 I'm trying to... You have me looking three different things at once.

Suzanne Santo 57:17 You're on your own here, but I support you.

Joe Rogan 57:19 I think it's reality. Yeah.

57:19 So this is it. This is it. So James Miller, uh, Jr., who served as the US Undersecretary of Defense from for Policy from 2012 to 2014, recalled that he swore an oath of office to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and to bear truth and faith and allegiance to the same, similar to what the Defense Secretary had done before he took office on Monday, June 1st, 2020. "I believe you violated that oath," Miller wrote to Esper. Miller's reasoning centered on President Donald J. Trump's visit Monday to St. John's Church in Washington DC-

57:53 Mm-hmm.

57:53 ... where police cleared peaceful protestors with tear gas so that he could pose with a Bible for photographs. That, that defines 2020, that this was an idea that was not only just throwing up the flagpole, but they're like, "Fuck yeah, let's do it."

58:08 Wait, I'm sorry. I feel really dumb right now.

58:09 Yeah, no shit. (laughs)

58:09 But what was the... Like, was there, like, a quote under the Bi- ... Like, was it just him and the Bible, or did he have something to say?

58:14 Just the Bible.

58:14 Nothing to say?

58:15 He didn't show anything.

58:16 That was it.

58:16 Okay. Like, they... This is what happened.

58:17 I don't get it. (laughs)

58:18 They... They... There's a lot going on.

58:20 (laughs)

58:20 One of the things that's going on is that they lit this church on fire, okay? And another thing that's going on is that someone posted that they lit the church on fire, and then CNN's Brian St- Stelter? Is that how you say his name?

58:31 I don't know how to say it. Stella.

58:32 There's one of the fellas on CNN, this adorable fella on CNN, who was tweeting-

58:37 (laughs)

58:37 ... that there's no fire. There's no evidence. There's no story that there's a fire. And then-

58:40 This is what I'm talking about.

58:41 And then the video comes out of the fire, and then he deletes all those tweets. So it's Trump who is a- also... It is l- it's also like a jab at CNN. Like, "See, you fucking idiots? You are fake news."

58:52 Oh, my God.

58:53 "You said there's no fire. This place burnt down, and I'm gonna go stand in front of it, and I'm gonna hold up a Bible."

58:58 Yeah.

58:59 So this-

58:59 And that's what he's fighting about.

59:00 There's a lot of ego shit going on with that. That's why he decided to stand in front of that church holding that Bible. It was also that he's trying to... Look, he's in a dog fight right now. When it comes to, like, his constituents, when it comes to the, the idea of a re-election, when it comes to the fact that everything keeps falling apart. And he's had, like, the worst set of circumstances, whether he brought it on or not. COVID, George Floyd, the fires, the riots. Like, he couldn't have predicted any of this, the looting. It's madness, right? So n- he's like, "I gotta go. Yeah, yeah, fucking somebody's gotta love me. Jesus!"

59:32 (laughs) Yeah.

59:33 "We're with Jesus!"

59:34 Oh my God.

59:34 This is where this is where we're at. This is where we're at.

59:37 (laughs)

59:37 Sinking ship.

59:38 Yeah, in Law & Order-

59:40 Would you say...

59:40 Yeah.

59:40 ... saying all the Law & Order shit.

59:40 ... about... It's like what you said about someone playing a musical instrument? Is that what you said, that it looked like someone-

59:45 (laughs)

59:46 Who, who doesn't know how to play guitar is holding a guitar.

59:48 Pool is another example of that.

59:50 Yeah.

59:50 Like, when you see a guy in a movie that's supposed to know how to play pool and he's seeming like fucking holding the poo- pool stick all stupid.

59:55 That's not how it goes.

59:56 Yeah.

59:56 It's when people play fake violins.

59:58 How do I look though?

59:58 What's that?

59:58 How do I look with a pool stick?

59:59 You look good.

1:00:00 Oh, is it all right?

1:00:01 But like-

1:00:01 All right.

1:00:01 We were playing pool earlier. Joe schooled us. He put on the glove, for the record. He wore the glove.

1:00:06 See something... Hold, hold the book.

1:00:08 (laughs)

1:00:08 Like a b-... A guy who reads books.

1:00:09 Yeah. That's...

1:00:10 (laughs)

1:00:11 That's... Then you could open it.

1:00:11 James Lindsay, he's gonna be on the podcast saying-

1:00:12 Hold on while I hold this blade. (laughs)

1:00:14 (laughs)

1:00:14 ... cynical theories.

1:00:15 Stupid. (laughs)

1:00:16 This is, uh...

1:00:16 Seth, Joe's doing a book thing.

1:00:17 This is how you hold a book.

1:00:18 Let him do the book thing.

1:00:19 (laughs)

1:00:19 This is a... But if I'm holding the book like this...

1:00:23 It was upside down too.

1:00:24 (laughs)

1:00:24 (laughs) It's like... Have you ever done-

1:00:26 That's it. That's it. (laughs) Can we... Can someone... Okay.

1:00:29 This is a... This is like I have definitely not re-read this book post.

1:00:33 We gotta make a poster out of that one. Book plays. (laughs)

1:00:36 (laughs)

1:00:36 (laughs)

1:00:37 Definitely haven't read the book.

1:00:38 I'd buy it. I'd buy it.

1:00:41 (laughs)

1:00:41 But no, but he loves that book.

1:00:42 Or you're dabbing.

1:00:42 Joe loves that book.

1:00:43 You're dabbing. Yeah. Look at him. (laughs) .

1:00:45 Oh, my God.

1:00:45 (laughs)

1:00:45 It's so stupid.

1:00:46 This is the Bible. It will never be ever, ever forgotten. Yeah. (laughs)

1:00:50 It's written all over the world in many, many ways.

1:00:53 The best words.

1:00:54 An amazing, amazing, amazing book. So special, so important.

1:00:57 But the thing about the, the whole narcissism thing is it's terrifying.

1:01:00 (laughs)

1:01:00 I'm terrified of that man. He scares the fuck out of me.

1:01:03 I wanna shave his head and give him mushrooms.

1:01:05 Whoo.

1:01:05 That's what I wanna do.

1:01:06 Do it. I dare you.

1:01:07 I wish I could.

1:01:07 No.

1:01:07 You probably can.

1:01:08 I wish he would listen.

1:01:08 No. No.

1:01:08 You're king of Spotify now.

1:01:10 (laughs)

1:01:10 Yeah. I'm a jester.

1:01:11 No rules in Spotify.

1:01:11 Just a, a minor jester, I think.

1:01:13 (laughs)

1:01:14 I'm second to Bill Simmons over there, I think. There's no worries.

1:01:18 Who the fuck... (laughs)

1:01:18 Just give him mushrooms. Just one, one fucking really good-

1:01:21 Is that your preferred psychedelic?

1:01:22 ... solid dose. Um, it's a good one.

1:01:25 Yeah.

1:01:25 You know? My, my preferred one is probably marijuana.

1:01:27 Mm-hmm.

1:01:28 I think marijuana's a psychedelic. I just think it's a-

1:01:30 I con- I concur.

1:01:31 It's a daily use psychedelic. If you did mushrooms every day, like, you can't talk to anybody.

1:01:35 Whoo.

1:01:35 You'd be useless.

1:01:36 Uh, false. I, I beg to differ.

1:01:38 (laughs)

1:01:39 Well, if you micro dose.

1:01:40 Oh yeah, it's different. It's different.

1:01:40 Okay. Where... I'm talking about getting blitzed.

1:01:42 Um, you know what I-

1:01:43 You have a big chest of mushrooms?

1:01:44 Yeah. No, I don't. I have some, though.Woo.

Ben Jaffe 1:01:47 What are we doing later? Did I tell you guys about when I... So I was quarantined with my parents for a month.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Holla.

Ben Jaffe 1:01:53 Uh, so like right after I saw you, Jill, when I was here last with Gary, like two days later I went on tour. Tour got canceled. I was in New York. Drove down to my parents' house and then things were getting weird and it got weirder and weirder. And then I was there for a month with my parents. And I, uh, I messed up big time because I, I, uh, took acid one day-

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 Why?

Ben Jaffe 1:02:12 ... while I was there.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 You mean you made the right choice.

Ben Jaffe 1:02:15 No. I thought they were gonna be gone. And then, uh, I had a friend with me. My, my friend Jose was there, one of my buds from, uh, childhood. And-

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Did Jose-

Ben Jaffe 1:02:23 They-

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 ... bring the acid?

Ben Jaffe 1:02:24 No. I brought the acid.

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:02:25 And I, I was originally like, "Let's take a whole tab." And he's like, "Mm, let's go half." And I, honest to God-

Suzanne Santo 1:02:31 Good move, Jose.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Powerful Jose.

Suzanne Santo 1:02:34 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:02:34 Well, we both, we both c- we both cut it in half. We both took, took a tab and then like 15 minutes later, my mom walked in the door. I'm 35 years old.

Suzanne Santo 1:02:41 Whoa. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:02:42 And then I was like, "Fuck." (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:02:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:02:46 So, (laughs) so-

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 God.

Ben Jaffe 1:02:47 And then I was like, "Oh, no, no, no. Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit."

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:02:49 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:02:49 'Cause they were supposed to be gone all day. And she's like, "He's..." My mom calls me Louis. God bless her. I love my mom so much. She's like, or she calls me Lumi. "Lumi, what are you doing?" And I was like, "Oh, I gotta tell her."

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:03:01 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:03:01 And, uh, and so I, I-

Suzanne Santo 1:03:02 But, oh, it should be noted, not the first time you've been on psychedelics, myself included-

Ben Jaffe 1:03:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:03:09 ... in front of your mom.

Ben Jaffe 1:03:09 Well, this is different. Um, she... This, this is... I, I respect my parents so much and I don't wanna get too personal, but, uh, one of my uncles P- uh, ODed on PCP when my mom was a kid. So she has like a, a, like, she, you know, she's got a thing. Mushrooms to her are fine 'cause they're like from the earth.

Suzanne Santo 1:03:26 Mm-hmm.

Ben Jaffe 1:03:26 So she, she got really, really mad at me, like, "You don't even..." Like, 'cause someone gave it to me, someone I trust. But she was like, you know, like, w- she was terrified of me. And I was too. I saw, like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Of you?

Ben Jaffe 1:03:38 Oh, yeah. Because-

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 She got into that Manson propaganda, huh?

Ben Jaffe 1:03:41 I mean, I was white as a sheet.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:03:43 And I was, I wa- I did not look good. And I, it was hardcore tripping. Like, it wasn't a little bit. I, I went deep. But I was also so aware that my mom was terr... Like, I went to check on her when I was like really tripping balls. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:03:57 Yeah, that's what you want from your mother.

Ben Jaffe 1:03:58 And she was, she was curled up on, on her bed with the dogs and she was looking at me and I was like, and I looked at her and I was like, "I'm gonna go." (laughs) And I just went back to my room. And then I, I had like the giggle part where I just couldn't stop laughing. Um, but at one point, I do wanna share this and I might get in trouble. No, fuck it. Um, Jose ... (laughs) I w- I was trying to like get some sense of normalcy and I was trying to eat food. And I, I put on, um, Planet Earth, which was-

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 Ooh.

Ben Jaffe 1:04:24 ... very healing at that time of, of just, just being in a total place. And, uh, Jose needed to, uh, get sick. And-

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 (sputters)

Ben Jaffe 1:04:32 ... at that same time-

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Not so powerful Jose.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:34 Not so powerful. Less powerful Jose.

Ben Jaffe 1:04:36 At that same time, at the same time, I was watching... I swear to God, I just... Swear to God, true story. Like, Jose is in the bathroom like, "Urgh."

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:04:45 And then at that same moment-

Suzanne Santo 1:04:46 The Cheetah.

Ben Jaffe 1:04:46 There were grizzly bears going, "Roar."

Suzanne Santo 1:04:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:04:49 (screams) And I was just like, "Is anybody watching this? That's me."

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:04:53 (laughs)

Ben Jaffe 1:04:54 It was just the best moment ever. I felt so bad.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 Oh. Oh, my God.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:58 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 You know who took the best grizzly bear footage ever?

Suzanne Santo 1:05:00 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 That Timothy Treadwell guy, that crazy guy.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:04 What was that? The Grizzly Man thing?

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben Jaffe 1:05:06 Uh.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:06 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 That guy took the best grizzly footage.

Ben Jaffe 1:05:08 But he died.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:08 He paid the price.

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 Yeah. Well, he fucked up, for sure.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 But along... Well, he gave us something.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:13 He died doing what he loved.

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 This, I'm, I'm... This is gonna be a real cynical take on this, but you gotta r- understand, this is all coming from love.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 That guy, even though he died getting killed by grizzlies in a hilarious, the best