The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1887 - Maynard James Keenan
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:25
Sauna routines and staying healthy in the Arizona sun
Joe and Maynard open with day-to-day health habits, starting with sauna use and the practical headaches of maintaining one in Arizona’s heat. They trade notes on why sauna feels essential post-workout and how climate affects equipment and recovery.
- •Maynard’s sauna heater issues and repairs
- •Arizona sun damaging wood and the need for sauna oils/maintenance
- •Wood-fired sauna vs. electric convenience
- •Joe’s “religious” post-workout sauna routine
- 1:25 – 2:44
Training jiu-jitsu on the road: focus, fundamentals, and avoiding flashy trends
The conversation shifts to Maynard’s challenge of keeping consistent jiu-jitsu training while touring. He explains how he chooses a single topic (like triangles) and seeks out trusted experts rather than chasing viral techniques.
- •Inconsistency of training while touring vs. stable home gym routine
- •Strategy: pick one subject and train it deeply with specialists
- •Skepticism about risky/flashy moves (e.g., buggy choke) at 58
- •Importance of learning counters alongside techniques
- 2:44 – 4:32
Modern submissions and MMA evolution: buggy chokes, von Flue, and counters
Joe and Maynard discuss how new jiu-jitsu techniques migrate into MMA, and how the sport rapidly develops counters. They use buggy chokes and the von Flue choke as examples of innovations that surge, then get game-planned against.
- •Buggy choke’s commitment risk and slam vulnerabilities
- •How MMA adoption lags behind pure jiu-jitsu innovation
- •Counter-cycles at high levels (moves appear, get solved, reappear)
- •OSP’s success with von Flue and common guillotine mistakes
- 4:32 – 6:46
Danaher, gi vs. no-gi, and training with age and injuries
They praise John Danaher’s detail-oriented coaching and unique background, then broaden into gi vs. no-gi training philosophy. Maynard mentions lower-back issues, and Joe recommends strength work and specific tools to stay durable.
- •Danaher’s teaching style and obsession with technical details
- •Gi training forcing defensive responsibility; no-gi adaptability
- •Maynard’s lower-back pain and the wear of travel
- •Joe’s recommendation: weights, kettlebells, and the Reverse Hyper
- 6:46 – 12:17
Tour bus reality: sleep deprivation, dehydration, and finding training on tour
Maynard describes the physical grind of bus travel—cramped sleeping, constant shaking, and fragmented rest. They connect touring conditions to hydration, electrolytes, and the difficulty of maintaining athletic routines on the road.
- •Sleeping ‘in a coffin’ and waking from road bumps
- •Needing longer time in bed to achieve real rest
- •Dehydration from air-conditioned environments
- •Electrolyte routines during Arizona heat and harvest work
- 12:17 – 19:50
Puscifer lockdown projects: pay-per-view concerts, characters, and ownership control
Maynard explains how lockdown canceled touring, so Puscifer leaned into high-concept streaming/pay-per-view events. He outlines multiple productions, their characters and themes, and why independence matters to avoid losing IP rights to networks.
- •Lockdown forcing creative pivots after major releases
- •Streaming events as a natural fit for Puscifer’s theatrical format
- •Upcoming double-feature releases and where they’ll be hosted
- •Avoiding traditional TV deals to retain ownership of characters
- 19:50 – 30:24
Wine, coffee, and building local businesses: finding your “taste” and your market
They move into Maynard’s broader entrepreneurial ecosystem—restaurants, wine, and a new coffee roasting plan. Maynard describes learning coffee like he approaches art: identify what he likes, build a distinct product, and serve a specific audience rather than everyone.
- •New coffee roaster and a planned breakfast/brunch concept
- •Learning beans by origin and developing personal preference
- •Terroir as a shared concept across wine and coffee
- •Coffee snobbery, cream vs. black, and quality vs. sugar drinks
- 30:24 – 41:52
Jiu-jitsu mindset as life training: drilling, self-control, and being okay with losing
Maynard frames jiu-jitsu as his hardest skill and a mental reprogramming tool. He emphasizes drilling, safe training partners, and the shift from panic to strategic thinking—then extends those lessons to pasta-making, winemaking, and creative work.
- •Transition from stress response to ‘chess’ mentality on the mat
- •Value of drilling and repetition in a controlled environment
- •Self-control and body awareness as the real curriculum
- •Applying the same learning model to crafts and business
- 41:52 – 48:55
How Maynard writes: responding to riffs, building puzzles, and disciplined collaboration
Joe asks about Maynard’s creative process, and Maynard explains songwriting as an iterative, responsive puzzle—like rolling with different body types. He details how ideas start with sounds/rhythms, get drilled into memory, and evolve through exchanges with collaborators.
- •No ‘blank slate’: ideas start from sounds, references, or gear
- •Existential Reckoning and the use of vintage synth textures
- •Looping demos relentlessly to ‘listen’ until lyrics/melody emerge
- •Collaboration as disciplined iteration: response upon response
- 48:55 – 1:04:30
Relevancy, pop stardom, and escaping the “machine” (Miley Cyrus, Bieber, Black Mirror)
They explore the temptation—and danger—of chasing relevancy, especially under pop-star constraints. Miley Cyrus becomes a case study for artistic digging and the forces that try to keep successful brands frozen, including a Black Mirror episode mirroring that control.
- •Why ‘quest for relevancy’ quickly becomes desperation
- •Pop stardom’s boxed-in identity vs. genuine experimentation
- •Industry incentives: ‘hands out’ and protecting the gravy train
- •Black Mirror’s satire of controlling an artist’s output
- 1:04:30 – 1:34:01
Technology’s double edge: TikTok surveillance, screen-time discipline, and tool-vs-weapon thinking
Joe and Maynard debate modern tech as both empowerment and risk, focusing on TikTok’s terms-of-service and surveillance concerns. They contrast addictive dopamine loops with the internet’s real utility for learning—from recipes to equipment repair—while stressing self-imposed limits.
- •TikTok monitoring concerns and why Maynard deleted it
- •Reading terms of service and unintended device/network access
- •Internet as a practical skill accelerator (recipes, repairs, how-tos)
- •Need for a ‘user manual’ for healthy tech engagement
- 1:34:01 – 1:40:51
Back to the land: ducks, bobcats, falconry, and why food systems matter
The conversation pivots to Maynard’s hands-on rural life: protecting ducks from predators, using practical deterrents, and his wife’s licensed falconry. This becomes a broader meditation on resilience—growing food, local production, and the fragility of urban dependence.
- •Predator management (bobcats) and low-tech deterrents
- •Ducks for eggs: pasta yolks and future brunch/quiche plans
- •Falconry and using a hawk for vineyard pest control
- •Resilience mindset: secure water, grow food, help neighbors
- 1:40:51 – 2:09:26
Building a winery from scratch: terroir, glyphosate, scaling limits, and the long financial runway
Maynard breaks down what it really takes to build vineyards and a winery: land, water rights, planting costs, and years before revenue arrives. They touch on herbicides like Roundup, regenerative ideals vs. scale realities, and the operational complexity of employing over 100 families.
- •Terroir variables: soil, clones, weather, pruning, harvest timing
- •Moving away from glyphosate and relying on ground cover/mowing
- •Economics of vineyards: ~$30k per acre to plant; 6–7 years to first dollar
- •Scaling requires delegation, seasonal labor, and constant logistics
- 2:09:26 – 2:53:43
Wine craft deep dive: wild ferments, pet-nat, mead experiments, and the ‘Sour Grapes’ fraud lesson
They get technical about Maynard’s winemaking philosophy—minimal intervention, mostly wild fermentation, and experimental mead botanicals. The discussion expands to sparkling pet-nat methods, ancient wine mixtures, and the Rudy Kurniawan scandal as a cautionary tale about taste, prestige, and deception.
- •Wild fermentation vs. inoculation and what ‘adding yeast’ really means
- •Pet-nat as an ancient-method sparkling approach (Italian-leaning profile)
- •Mead production and botanical variants (lavender, hibiscus, bergamot, jasmine)
- •Sour Grapes/Rudy Kurniawan: palate mimicry, bottle variation, and wine expertise limits
