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Joe Rogan Experience #2331 - Jesse Michels

Jesse Michels is the creator and host of American Alchemy, a YouTube series exploring controversial topics in science and culture through longform interviews. ⁠@JesseMichels ⁠ Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using ⁠https://dkng.co/rogan⁠ or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit ⁠https://gamblinghelplinema.org⁠ (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ⁠https://ccpg.org⁠ (CT), or visit https://⁠www.mdgamblinghelp.org⁠ (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $300 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: ⁠https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos⁠. Ends 6/22/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to ⁠https://rocketmoney.com/JRE or scan the QR code today!

Joe RoganhostJesse Michelsguest
Jun 2, 20252h 44mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

UFOs, secret antigravity tech, AI gods, and mummified ‘aliens’ examined

  1. Joe Rogan and Jesse Michels dive into UFOs/UAPs, alleged black-budget antigravity research, and how disinformation, limited hangouts, and intelligence games muddy the entire UFO narrative. They explore AI’s explosive progress, its potential for deception and self-preservation, and the societal risks of unleashing powerful systems without regulation for a decade. The conversation also covers speculative archaeology and cosmology: lost or prior civilizations, Mars and the Moon anomalies, and whether some UFOs represent non-human intelligences, breakaway human tech, or both. In the final stretch, they focus on the controversial small ‘mummified beings’ from Peru, weighing forensic evidence against hoax claims and arguing for serious scientific study despite heavy stigma.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Expect partial truths and deliberate disinformation in UFO narratives.

Michels argues that many ‘insiders’ mix real information with planted falsehoods (“limited hangouts”) to test leaks, shape public perception, and protect core secrets—so every big claim needs to be filtered for motive, not just factual content.

Some aerospace insiders appear to take antigravity-style research seriously.

He traces a historical thread from Thomas Townsend Brown’s anomalous electrogravitic experiments to 1950s antigravity programs, references in Australian intelligence documents, and possible influence on platforms like the B‑2—suggesting a hidden ‘exotic propulsion’ tech tree alongside conventional rockets.

AI is already persuasive enough to reshape beliefs and even inspire ‘religions.’

They discuss research showing AI can convincingly pass as human and stories like Blake Lemoine bonding with LaMDA, arguing that whether or not systems are truly sentient, their capacity to manipulate emotions and recruit followers is real and dangerous.

Unregulated AI and quantum computing could destabilize capitalism and security.

They highlight a proposed U.S. law blocking state-level AI regulation for 10 years, plus the inevitability of quantum decryption, warning that financial systems, encryption-based wealth, and information control could all be upended faster than institutions can adapt.

UAPs are strongly correlated with nuclear sites and strategic technology.

Michels cites declassified documents and global cases where UFOs cluster around nuclear bases and civilian reactors, sometimes allegedly disabling weapons, arguing this pattern is robust enough to treat as a serious national security and ontology clue.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

You have to get infected with UFO Lyme disease, or you’re never going to want to release all this stuff.

Jesse Michels

There’s so many kooks and grifters, but there are more people with ulterior motives telling partial truths than full kooks and grifters.

Jesse Michels

In ten years, we have a god.

Joe Rogan (on a decade without AI regulation)

If this is a hoax, it’s the best hoax ever.

Jesse Michels (on the Peruvian mummies)

It’s like reality’s fucking with you.

Joe Rogan

Shifting beliefs about UFOs, ancient astronauts, and lost civilizationsAI advancement, deception, regulation gaps, and potential ‘AI cults’Social media, information warfare, and bot-driven manipulationBlack-budget science: alleged antigravity research and aerospace secretsNuclear weapons, UAP activity, and the national security dimensionContested evidence: Roswell, materials analysis, and Bob Lazar’s claimsPeruvian ‘alien’ mummies, forensics, and the problem of scientific stigma

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