CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:50
Gaethje’s head-kick KO, crowd energy, and Apex vs arena fights
Joe and Jared react to Justin Gaethje’s shocking head-kick knockout and compare it to Leon Edwards’ finish in the same arena. They discuss how different venues change the “energy” of a fight, and Jared explains how crowd reaction can fuel or pressure fighters. The conversation contrasts big arenas with the intimacy of the UFC Apex and why each experience feels unique.
- 3:50 – 7:05
Performance Institute, weight-cut science, and Cannonier’s rare multi-division journey
The talk shifts to UFC infrastructure like the Apex and Performance Institute, especially how the PI supports safer weight cuts. Joe highlights Jared’s unusual path from heavyweight to light heavyweight to middleweight and asks how he manages such large swings. Jared shares his current walking-around weight and why his body composition makes cutting feasible.
- 7:05 – 9:37
How Jared cuts weight: timelines, diet changes, and why extreme cuts are dangerous
Joe probes what it would take for Jared to make weight on short notice and how much of camp revolves around staying on track. Jared outlines his ideal timelines, diet approach, portion control, and how much he typically cuts during fight week. They agree that last-minute, massive cuts are risky and often a result of poor planning or unavoidable opportunities.
- 9:37 – 12:40
Should MMA eliminate weight cutting? Brutal cut stories and medical risk
Joe floats the idea of more weight classes with no cutting, arguing the current system is dangerously normalized. He recounts extreme examples like Travis Lutter’s near-collapsing cut before fighting Anderson Silva. Jared explains he won’t chase further weight drops because of quality-of-life and organ/brain dehydration concerns.
- 12:40 – 14:23
Supplements, anti-doping, and healing peptides (BPC-157)
Joe discusses conversations with Jeff Novitzky about allowing certain recovery aids, including peptides, and laments recent bans like BPC-157. Jared explains he avoids most supplements to reduce contamination risk and relies on UFC-tested products. They touch on hydration packets and practical nutrition support through his wife’s cooking.
- 14:23 – 18:12
Pride-era highlights: Fedor’s composure, knees on the ground, and 10-minute rounds
A nostalgic detour into Pride FC leads to watching the famous Randleman slam on Fedor and the rapid kimura finish. Joe and Jared marvel at Fedor’s emotionless demeanor and the brutal rule differences, including knees to a grounded opponent. They also discuss the appeal of Pride’s 10-minute opening round format.
- 18:12 – 21:09
MMA’s generations: pioneers, early UFC scarcity, and Strikeforce’s golden era
Jared asks Joe to map MMA by “generations,” leading to discussion of how skillsets evolved as footage and coaching accumulated. Joe credits early pioneers who had no blueprint and recalls the UFC’s struggle for legitimacy and distribution. They then pivot to Strikeforce, praising its roster depth and classic fights, and discuss the downside of org consolidation (Bellator/PFL).
- 21:09 – 26:19
Cannonier’s origin story: Army combatives, martial arts calling, and early competition
Jared recounts discovering MMA through a surprising family connection and later finding his true spark in Army combatives training. He describes tournaments, early grappling-focused instruction, and how the program shaped his sense of purpose. Joe presses on whether the military teaches real MMA and why certain tools (like elbows) are often removed.
- 26:19 – 36:26
Elbows, Muay Thai craft, and iconic stoppages (Marquardt–Woodley)
The discussion deepens into elbow mechanics, safety, and why training should include them despite injury risk. Jared shares his own experience breaking a hand and finishing with elbows, plus how teammates help him develop them in sparring. Joe pulls up the Nate Marquardt vs Tyron Woodley finish as a prime example of devastating elbow sequences.
- 36:26 – 41:34
From Alaska gyms to UFC contender: late start, family sacrifices, and The Lab move
Jared details moving to Alaska after the Army, working for the FAA, starting BJJ at ~300 lbs, and gradually adding MMA. He describes early promotions in Alaska, balancing training with family life, and the friction/adjustments required. Later he explains the path to Phoenix and The MMA Lab—leaving a six-figure job to chase higher-level development.
- 41:34 – 59:22
Top-level growth: Vettori performance, Whittaker loss, and the Dricus surprise
Joe praises Jared’s technical evolution, especially in the Vettori fight, and they discuss how improvements are harder to see at elite levels. Jared explains lessons from fighting Whittaker—including an ulna break—and why Dricus du Plessis’ pressure style can break even elite tacticians. They also speculate on middleweight title matchmaking and Jared’s readiness to step in if needed.
- 59:22 – 1:18:34
Mindset, identity, and ‘martial artist first’ philosophy
Jared explains why he doesn’t treat fighting like a job but like a test within a lifelong learning path. Joe highlights how that mindset supports late-career improvement and resilience after setbacks. Jared expands into a broader philosophy of self-construction—building an ‘avatar’ from admirable traits and choosing an upward trajectory in life.
- 1:18:34 – 1:25:54
Training methods and longevity: gas tanks, BJ Penn vs GSP philosophies, and injuries
They compare conditioning-heavy approaches (Marv Marinovich/BJ Penn) with efficiency and technique-first models (GSP). Jared shares why cardio became a foundational focus and how late entry into martial arts may reduce wear-and-tear. They also discuss serious injuries (pec tear, broken ulna), the difficulty of healing, and why injury prevention matters for long careers.
- 1:25:54 – 1:45:15
Footwork, surfaces, merch tangent, and learning from boxing (Crawford, Boots Ennis)
A technical discussion about slipping on UFC canvas/logos leads into what an ideal cage surface might be. Jared explains how wrestling shoes in training enforce precise foot placement and how he teaches footwork concepts. They pivot to boxing as a study tool, praising Terence Crawford and highlighting Boots Ennis’ movement as a learning resource.
- 1:45:15 – 1:49:32
Recovery tools and cold plunge debate (how cold is ‘cold’?)
Joe asks about Jared’s recovery routine—stretching, massage, and cold plunges—especially during camp. They trade preferences on timing (morning vs post-workout) and joke about “bitch-ass” plunge temperatures. Joe advocates very cold plunges (around 34°F) and outlines a contrast routine with sauna and movement to reheat the body.
- 1:49:32 – 2:09:41
Alaska survival stories and the reality of bears (black, grizzly, polar)
The conversation drifts into Jared’s Alaska life: harsh-weather training, survival instruction, and not being prepared for the cold at first. They compare black bear behavior to grizzlies’ predatory intensity and discuss polar bears as relentless hunters. Joe references bear attacks, hunting realities, and the documentary ‘Grizzly Man’ as a cautionary tale about romanticizing wild animals.
