CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:50
Gaethje’s head-kick KO, crowd energy, and Apex vs arena fights
Joe and Jared react to Justin Gaethje’s shocking head-kick knockout and compare it to Leon Edwards’ finish in the same arena. They discuss how different venues change the “energy” of a fight, and Jared explains how crowd reaction can fuel or pressure fighters. The conversation contrasts big arenas with the intimacy of the UFC Apex and why each experience feels unique.
- •Reaction to Gaethje’s KO and the Leon Edwards parallel
- •Why certain cities/arenas feel more electric than Vegas
- •How crowd noise affects a fighter’s decisions mid-fight
- •Apex fights feel personal: hearing breathing, corners, commentators
- 3:50 – 7:05
Performance Institute, weight-cut science, and Cannonier’s rare multi-division journey
The talk shifts to UFC infrastructure like the Apex and Performance Institute, especially how the PI supports safer weight cuts. Joe highlights Jared’s unusual path from heavyweight to light heavyweight to middleweight and asks how he manages such large swings. Jared shares his current walking-around weight and why his body composition makes cutting feasible.
- •PI’s role in training support and weight-cut assessments
- •Cannonier’s transition: heavyweight → 205 → 185
- •Walking-around weight and how he stays lean enough to cut
- •Muscle mass, water weight, and examples like Yoel Romero
- 7:05 – 9:37
How Jared cuts weight: timelines, diet changes, and why extreme cuts are dangerous
Joe probes what it would take for Jared to make weight on short notice and how much of camp revolves around staying on track. Jared outlines his ideal timelines, diet approach, portion control, and how much he typically cuts during fight week. They agree that last-minute, massive cuts are risky and often a result of poor planning or unavoidable opportunities.
- •Realistic vs emergency timelines (4–8 week camps)
- •Diet focus: portion sizes, quality meats, more fish
- •Typical cut breakdown: lean down first, ~10 lbs fight week
- •Why some fighters attempt huge cuts and what goes wrong
- 9:37 – 12:40
Should MMA eliminate weight cutting? Brutal cut stories and medical risk
Joe floats the idea of more weight classes with no cutting, arguing the current system is dangerously normalized. He recounts extreme examples like Travis Lutter’s near-collapsing cut before fighting Anderson Silva. Jared explains he won’t chase further weight drops because of quality-of-life and organ/brain dehydration concerns.
- •Proposal: no cutting + more weight classes
- •Danger of dehydration close to fight time
- •Travis Lutter anecdote and missing weight in a title fight
- •Cannonier’s limits: could go to 170 but chooses not to
- 12:40 – 14:23
Supplements, anti-doping, and healing peptides (BPC-157)
Joe discusses conversations with Jeff Novitzky about allowing certain recovery aids, including peptides, and laments recent bans like BPC-157. Jared explains he avoids most supplements to reduce contamination risk and relies on UFC-tested products. They touch on hydration packets and practical nutrition support through his wife’s cooking.
- •Debate: banning vs permitting recovery aids for injury healing
- •BPC-157 mentioned as recently banned for fighters
- •Third-party-tested supplements (e.g., Thorne) to avoid tainted products
- •Meal prep reality: wife cooks; convenience vs strict macro tracking
- 14:23 – 18:12
Pride-era highlights: Fedor’s composure, knees on the ground, and 10-minute rounds
A nostalgic detour into Pride FC leads to watching the famous Randleman slam on Fedor and the rapid kimura finish. Joe and Jared marvel at Fedor’s emotionless demeanor and the brutal rule differences, including knees to a grounded opponent. They also discuss the appeal of Pride’s 10-minute opening round format.
- •Fedor vs Randleman slam and immediate submission
- •Pride rules: grounded knees and a more violent pace
- •Fedor’s ‘stone face’ and mental toughness
- •Pros/cons of 10-minute first rounds
- 18:12 – 21:09
MMA’s generations: pioneers, early UFC scarcity, and Strikeforce’s golden era
Jared asks Joe to map MMA by “generations,” leading to discussion of how skillsets evolved as footage and coaching accumulated. Joe credits early pioneers who had no blueprint and recalls the UFC’s struggle for legitimacy and distribution. They then pivot to Strikeforce, praising its roster depth and classic fights, and discuss the downside of org consolidation (Bellator/PFL).
- •Defining MMA ‘generations’ by competitive lifespan and skill evolution
- •Early UFC fighters had no tape study or proven meta
- •UFC’s early regulatory/media battles and DirecTV era
- •Strikeforce’s elite roster and memorable fights; concern over fewer orgs
- 21:09 – 26:19
Cannonier’s origin story: Army combatives, martial arts calling, and early competition
Jared recounts discovering MMA through a surprising family connection and later finding his true spark in Army combatives training. He describes tournaments, early grappling-focused instruction, and how the program shaped his sense of purpose. Joe presses on whether the military teaches real MMA and why certain tools (like elbows) are often removed.
- •First exposure to MMA and early lack of interest
- •Army combatives as the ‘birthplace’ of his martial arts journey
- •Tournament experience and realizing he was ‘meant’ to do this
- •Debate over military striking rules and the importance of elbows
- 26:19 – 36:26
Elbows, Muay Thai craft, and iconic stoppages (Marquardt–Woodley)
The discussion deepens into elbow mechanics, safety, and why training should include them despite injury risk. Jared shares his own experience breaking a hand and finishing with elbows, plus how teammates help him develop them in sparring. Joe pulls up the Nate Marquardt vs Tyron Woodley finish as a prime example of devastating elbow sequences.
- •Why elbows are essential weapons (especially if hands break)
- •Training elbows safely: control, distance, and awareness
- •Jared’s Muay Thai influences and coaching support
- •Marquardt–Woodley clip as a ‘video game’ stoppage example
- 36:26 – 41:34
From Alaska gyms to UFC contender: late start, family sacrifices, and The Lab move
Jared details moving to Alaska after the Army, working for the FAA, starting BJJ at ~300 lbs, and gradually adding MMA. He describes early promotions in Alaska, balancing training with family life, and the friction/adjustments required. Later he explains the path to Phoenix and The MMA Lab—leaving a six-figure job to chase higher-level development.
- •Post-Army life: FAA job, Alaska relocation, starting BJJ heavy
- •Finding MMA through gym exposure and local promotions
- •Family logistics and sacrifices to train consistently
- •Move to Phoenix/The Lab as a career-defining step
- 41:34 – 59:22
Top-level growth: Vettori performance, Whittaker loss, and the Dricus surprise
Joe praises Jared’s technical evolution, especially in the Vettori fight, and they discuss how improvements are harder to see at elite levels. Jared explains lessons from fighting Whittaker—including an ulna break—and why Dricus du Plessis’ pressure style can break even elite tacticians. They also speculate on middleweight title matchmaking and Jared’s readiness to step in if needed.
- •Incremental vs noticeable improvements at the top level
- •Vettori fight: movement, setups, pressure, and technical control
- •Whittaker fight: broken ulna early and adapting under damage
- •Dricus’ pressure and pace; title-fight timing and contingency plans
- 59:22 – 1:18:34
Mindset, identity, and ‘martial artist first’ philosophy
Jared explains why he doesn’t treat fighting like a job but like a test within a lifelong learning path. Joe highlights how that mindset supports late-career improvement and resilience after setbacks. Jared expands into a broader philosophy of self-construction—building an ‘avatar’ from admirable traits and choosing an upward trajectory in life.
- •Fighting as a ‘challenge/test’ rather than a job
- •Why this mindset sustains growth and reduces burnout
- •Building a personal ‘avatar’ from values and role models
- •Nonconformity, self-honesty, and long-term vision for life/aging
- 1:18:34 – 1:25:54
Training methods and longevity: gas tanks, BJ Penn vs GSP philosophies, and injuries
They compare conditioning-heavy approaches (Marv Marinovich/BJ Penn) with efficiency and technique-first models (GSP). Jared shares why cardio became a foundational focus and how late entry into martial arts may reduce wear-and-tear. They also discuss serious injuries (pec tear, broken ulna), the difficulty of healing, and why injury prevention matters for long careers.
- •Conditioning-first vs technique-first training philosophies
- •Why elite cardio can be a competitive superpower
- •Late start can mean less accumulated damage by late 30s
- •Major injuries in camp and fights; rehab and recovery priorities
- 1:25:54 – 1:45:15
Footwork, surfaces, merch tangent, and learning from boxing (Crawford, Boots Ennis)
A technical discussion about slipping on UFC canvas/logos leads into what an ideal cage surface might be. Jared explains how wrestling shoes in training enforce precise foot placement and how he teaches footwork concepts. They pivot to boxing as a study tool, praising Terence Crawford and highlighting Boots Ennis’ movement as a learning resource.
- •Canvas/logos can be slick; debate about mats vs canvas and seams
- •Wrestling shoes as a footwork-training constraint
- •Jared’s self-taught ‘copy’ learning style and teaching at The Lab
- •Boxing study: Crawford’s adjustments; Boots Ennis’ movement highlights
- 1:45:15 – 1:49:32
Recovery tools and cold plunge debate (how cold is ‘cold’?)
Joe asks about Jared’s recovery routine—stretching, massage, and cold plunges—especially during camp. They trade preferences on timing (morning vs post-workout) and joke about “bitch-ass” plunge temperatures. Joe advocates very cold plunges (around 34°F) and outlines a contrast routine with sauna and movement to reheat the body.
- •Recovery stack: stretching, massages, cold plunge, salts
- •Timing strategies: morning activation vs post-workout inflammation control
- •Hot/cold contrast at the PI and mental training benefits
- •Debate over ideal plunge temperature and duration
- 1:49:32 – 2:09:41
Alaska survival stories and the reality of bears (black, grizzly, polar)
The conversation drifts into Jared’s Alaska life: harsh-weather training, survival instruction, and not being prepared for the cold at first. They compare black bear behavior to grizzlies’ predatory intensity and discuss polar bears as relentless hunters. Joe references bear attacks, hunting realities, and the documentary ‘Grizzly Man’ as a cautionary tale about romanticizing wild animals.
- •Learning Alaska cold-weather survival the hard way
- •Tsunami alerts, camping concerns, and bear safety basics
- •Black bear vs grizzly vs polar bear behavior and danger levels
- •‘Grizzly Man’ and why projecting human intent onto wildlife is risky
