JRE MMA Show #144 with Jared Cannonier

1. 0:00 – 3:50

   Gaethje’s head-kick KO, crowd energy, and Apex vs arena fights

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JCJared Cannonier0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      We're up. Here we go. Jared Cannonier, ladies and gentlemen. Hey, what, what a fucking crazy couple of weeks of fights it's been, man. It's so much to talk about.

   5. JCJared Cannonier0:22

      Absolutely, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      You know, this l- last main event, oh my god. I'm, I'm still, I'm still, like, in shock that Justin Gaethje head kick knockout.

   7. JCJared Cannonier0:31

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      ... of Dustin Poirier, I'm like, "Oh my god."

   9. JCJared Cannonier0:33

      I mean, we all knew that that fight was gonna be-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Some-

   11. JCJared Cannonier0:36

       ... tremendous.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Yeah.

   13. JCJared Cannonier0:37

       Something, something big was gonna happen in that fight, so when it did and how it happened, it was beautiful. Beautiful execution of that, uh, of that technique by, uh, Justin Gaethje-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Yeah.

   15. JCJared Cannonier0:47

       ... to get that head kick off, it was beautiful. It landed beautifully, and he followed up nicely.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Yeah.

   17. JCJared Cannonier0:53

       Well, there was no follow-up. He was on his way. I think the ref stopped it-

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       I think he did land one hammer fist.

   19. JCJared Cannonier0:57

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       But yeah, it was perfect. It was a direct mirror image of Leon Edwards' kick-

   21. JCJared Cannonier1:02

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       ... on the opposite side, in the same place.

   23. JCJared Cannonier1:04

       In the same arena, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Crazy.

   25. JCJared Cannonier1:06

       Yeah, that's crazy.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Crazy. (laughs)

   27. JCJared Cannonier1:08

       Something's going on there, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       Oh, man. There's... I tell you one thing, and you can tell me if this is, uh, if you feel it as a fighter, but there's something about the energy in an arena when you go to a place that really appreciates that you're there, 'cause like we're in Vegas a lot. You guys fight in Vegas all the time. People are-

   29. JCJared Cannonier1:25

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       They get a little used to the fact that the UFC's there.
2. 3:50 – 7:05

   Performance Institute, weight-cut science, and Cannonier’s rare multi-division journey

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:50

      Yeah. And the, uh, PI, like putting something like that, such a, a high-tech, like state-of-the-art gym where guys can do their camps there.

   2. JCJared Cannonier4:00

      Yes, the PI has been a goldmine for a lot of guys, especially those guys in Vegas. I've used it a few times, but I don't really get up there too o- too often, you know? So um, (sniffs) but I can imagine if I did live there, I'd be in the PI all the time, maybe once, twice a day.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:18

      They do, they really help guys, uh, scientifically cut weight correctly too and give-

   4. JCJared Cannonier4:23

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:23

      ... them an assessment of whether or not they can do it and be healthy when they're doing it.

   6. JCJared Cannonier4:27

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:28

      That weight-cutting game is a crazy game, and you are, y- y- you got a wild career, man, 'cause you started off (laughs) at heavyweight. You got down to 205 and now down to 85. Has anybody else done that and been as successful as you? I don't think so.

   8. JCJared Cannonier4:42

      I don't think anybody's-

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:44

      Yeah, I-

   10. JCJared Cannonier4:44

       I think, I don't think anybody's gone down, you know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       Right.

   12. JCJared Cannonier4:48

       Conor McGregor's gone up. He hasn't been as successful, but he's just successful-

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       Yeah.

   14. JCJared Cannonier4:52

       ... in anything he does, you know, so.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       Right, but I'm saying like has anybody ever started out as a heavyweight and gotten down to become an elite middleweight?

   16. JCJared Cannonier5:00

       No, I don't think-

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       I think he's the only guy.

   18. JCJared Cannonier5:02

       ... anybody's done that before, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       It's, what-

   20. JCJared Cannonier5:04

       Well, you know, well, Vitor's gone up. He's fought up at heavyweight.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       Oh yeah, he did.

   22. JCJared Cannonier5:10

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:10

       Yeah.

   24. JCJared Cannonier5:10

       He's fought up at light heavyweight.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:12

       But middleweight would've been his correct weight class-

   26. JCJared Cannonier5:15

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:15

       ... I think, if he started today, like what he wound up in, I think that's the correct weight class-

   28. JCJared Cannonier5:20

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:20

       ... with weight cutting.

   30. JCJared Cannonier5:21

       Well, I would say the same thing about me too, you know.
3. 7:05 – 9:37

   How Jared cuts weight: timelines, diet changes, and why extreme cuts are dangerous

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:05

      When you do yours, how far out do you s- do you just start to change your diet? And like when, how, how much time do they... like if the UFC calls you up and says, "We want you to fight for a world title in two weeks."

   2. JCJared Cannonier7:18

      In two weeks?

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:19

      You can't get down there?

   4. JCJared Cannonier7:20

      In two weeks?

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:21

      I mean, I mean, well-

   6. JCJared Cannonier7:21

      I haven't done it before, but I'm sure I could. Hell yeah, I could. Right? Yeah, I think I could.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:27

      But you wouldn't want to. Ideally, what would you want to? Like how much time do you need to get all the way down to healthy?

   8. JCJared Cannonier7:31

      I would, I would comfortably four weeks at the very-

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:34

      Four weeks.

   10. JCJared Cannonier7:34

       ... at the least. You know what I mean? But six weeks to be the, you know, is the general consensus for fight camps. Eight weeks for those who wanna put a little extra on it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       Right. But like, how much of the camp is centered around being careful with your weight?

   12. JCJared Cannonier7:49

       Um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:49

       How much do you think about it?

   14. JCJared Cannonier7:50

       I would say the whole camp.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:51

       The whole camp.

   16. JCJared Cannonier7:51

       You know what I mean? 'Cause, uh, when I'm not in camp and I don't have a fight coming up, I don't really pay attention to, you know what I'm saying? How-

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:59

       Diet.

   18. JCJared Cannonier7:59

       ... my portion sizes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:00

       Yes.

   20. JCJared Cannonier8:00

       And that's the big thing, is the portion sizes and the, the quality of the meats that I'm putting in my body as well, you know? So, um, I changed from eating less re- red meat for sure. You know, I eat more salmon, more fish. Um, and portion sizes, again, for me is important.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JCJared Cannonier8:21

       The work output, as long as I'm going to the gym and, uh, making my appointments that I've made for myself and I'm going to the gym twice a day, I burn, I burn it off. And I sweat it, I sweat off a lot too, you know? So I can... as long as I got at least four weeks, I can make it happen.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:38

       And-

   24. JCJared Cannonier8:39

       You know, e- where I'm at now, but when I'm training, you know what I mean? I'm around 210, 215, and all I have to do is change my diet. I'll drop about 10, 12 pounds in about two or three weeks.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:55

       Hm.

   26. JCJared Cannonier8:55

       And then cut the weight-

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:57

       Okay.

   28. JCJared Cannonier8:57

       ... during fight week.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       Well, that's not that much then. So then y- you're really just cutting about 10 fight week?

   30. JCJared Cannonier9:02

       Yeah.
4. 9:37 – 12:40

   Should MMA eliminate weight cutting? Brutal cut stories and medical risk

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:37

      Do you ever envision, uh, a time where the sport would have no weight cutting, where they would just match people up by weight?

   2. JCJared Cannonier9:46

      When there's no weight cutting? Uh...

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:47

      No weight cutting.

   4. JCJared Cannonier9:48

      I think-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:48

      What if there was more weight classes-

   6. JCJared Cannonier9:51

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:51

      ... but no weight cutting?

   8. JCJared Cannonier9:52

      I think that'd be fine. I would love that actually, to make it more of a natural-

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:57

      Yeah.

   10. JCJared Cannonier9:57

       ... competition, you know what I mean? As opposed to people trying to get the edge o-

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:00

       Right.

   12. JCJared Cannonier10:01

       ... trying to get the edge on, on their opponent's back.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:02

       But it seems like a crazy edge to agree to.

   14. JCJared Cannonier10:05

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       Like if we were... like I, I firmly believe that i- if weight cutting did exist and then people started doing it now, they would try to ban it.

   16. JCJared Cannonier10:14

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:14

       They would try to say, "Don't do that. That's dangerous. You're, 24 hours before you're gonna have a fucking cage fight."

   18. JCJared Cannonier10:19

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       "You're gonna dehydrate yourself-"

   20. JCJared Cannonier10:21

       Dehydrate yourself. Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:21

       "... to death's door." To death's door. I've seen some dudes that were on death's door.

   22. JCJared Cannonier10:25

       Really?

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:26

       Oh yeah.

   24. JCJared Cannonier10:26

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:27

       Travis Luter, when he fought Anderson Silva was the worst I ever saw a man when he was, uh, cutting weight.

   26. JCJared Cannonier10:33

       Hm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:33

       Travis couldn't walk. He was shuffling to the scale.

   28. JCJared Cannonier10:36

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       And he missed weight. He missed weight in the world title fight, and he had a real shot against Anderson 'cause his jujitsu was phenomenal.

   30. JCJared Cannonier10:43

       Okay.
5. 12:40 – 14:23

   Supplements, anti-doping, and healing peptides (BPC-157)

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:40

      Which I think there's a lot of it, like, I was having a conversation with Jeff Novitzky about it. Like that they are trying to introduce things like peptides and allow fighters to use things that help them heal from injuries.

   2. JCJared Cannonier12:54

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:54

      And give them ex- exemptions for things like that, 'cause it's only beneficial to the fighter.

   4. JCJared Cannonier12:58

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:58

      And th- their ability to heal from injuries. The real- a lot of people, at least anecdotally, there are- I mean, there are some studies on BPC 157. I don't know what the full date is, but I know that the doctors that I work with and the people that I know believe in it a lot. And it used to be legal-

   6. JCJared Cannonier13:15

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:15

      ... for UFC fighters, then they, they banned it. Just-

   8. JCJared Cannonier13:18

      They did?

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:18

      ... recently. Yeah.

   10. JCJared Cannonier13:19

       Oh, I didn't know that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:20

       Yeah.

   12. JCJared Cannonier13:21

       Hm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:21

       It's a bummer.

   14. JCJared Cannonier13:22

       See, this is why I don't use, uh, supplements myself. I only use the s- uh, the stuff they give us from, like, Thorne Supplements. I think UFC has-

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:29

       Yeah.

   16. JCJared Cannonier13:29

       ... a partnership with them.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:31

       Right. And they're all third party tested.

   18. JCJared Cannonier13:32

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:33

       No bullshit in them. Yeah.

   20. JCJared Cannonier13:35

       Yeah. So, (clears throat) there are some other things like LMNTs, hydration packages I'll, I'll use every now and then.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:41

       Those are great.

   22. JCJared Cannonier13:42

       But I rarely do I take supplements. On top of that, I'm kinda even just take 'em consistently to get the benefit from 'em.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:47

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JCJared Cannonier13:47

       So, um, there's really no point in it for me.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:51

       So, do you, uh, have someone who, uh, cooks for you? Do you have like a meal service to use?

   26. JCJared Cannonier13:56

       My wife.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:57

       Your wife. (laughs)

   28. JCJared Cannonier13:57

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:58

       There you go.

   30. JCJared Cannonier13:58

       Yeah.
6. 14:23 – 18:12

   Pride-era highlights: Fedor’s composure, knees on the ground, and 10-minute rounds

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:23

      Whenever I think about people that do stuff like this, I think about Fedor. Because Fedor used to fight, he had a big belly.

   2. JCJared Cannonier14:30

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:31

      He didn't (laughs) -

   4. JCJared Cannonier14:31

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:31

      ... he, he didn't give a fuck about portion control.

   6. JCJared Cannonier14:34

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:35

      I mean, F-

   8. JCJared Cannonier14:36

      He was very unassuming, the way he-

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:38

      Yes.

   10. JCJared Cannonier14:38

       ... looked physically. But his demeanor-

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:41

       He was such a beast.

   12. JCJared Cannonier14:42

       ... said something else. Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       I was listening to s- I've gotta c- I can't remember who was talking about it on a podcast. I'll try to remember it. Might've been Cejudo. I forget who was talking about it, but they were talking about... Oh, no. It was Rampage. It was Rampage Jackson. And he was talking about how Fedor was his favorite fighter and he was recalling this moment where Kevin Randleman suplexed him.

   14. JCJared Cannonier15:02

       Oh, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:02

       And threw him on his neck.

   16. JCJared Cannonier15:04

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:04

       And Fedor's expression never changed.

   18. JCJared Cannonier15:07

       Didn't change. Yeah. I saw that clip too. I thought that was-

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:09

       Isn't that wild?

   20. JCJared Cannonier15:09

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:09

       It's so true.

   22. JCJared Cannonier15:10

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:10

       'Cause he's, he's, he just, no matter what, in the heat of battle-

   24. JCJared Cannonier15:14

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       ... just stone faced. Never, no emotion. No nothing. Stone faced.

   26. JCJared Cannonier15:19

       Yeah. That just says he saw some, some hard shit as a child probably.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:22

       Yeah, right? Something. I mean, it definitely wasn't easy.

   28. JCJared Cannonier15:27

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       Whatever he went through was not easy. But that dude is a, that is a hard man.

   30. JCJared Cannonier15:31

       How did that fight end?
7. 18:12 – 21:09

   MMA’s generations: pioneers, early UFC scarcity, and Strikeforce’s golden era

   1. JCJared Cannonier18:12

      So you've been in this game for a number of generations.

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:15

      Yeah.

   3. JCJared Cannonier18:16

      Like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:16

      Yeah, well-

   5. JCJared Cannonier18:16

      ... if you were to, if you were to map the, uh, MMA, uh, as a sport, how many generations would you say we're in right now?

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:24

      (inhales)

   7. JCJared Cannonier18:25

      Like about four?

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:25

      I guess it's the 30th year of the UFC.

   9. JCJared Cannonier18:27

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:27

       And a r- um, an elite fighter, what's the average amount of years they can compete? Is it probably 10-

   11. JCJared Cannonier18:37

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:37

       ... average?

   13. JCJared Cannonier18:38

       Eight to 12, something like that.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       Some guys can extend it, you know. Randy Couture extended it. You know, some guys can... But I actually started late. But some guys extend that time period where you could fight as an elite fighter, but, uh, there's only a certain amount of time. So that's kind of a generation, right?

   15. JCJared Cannonier18:53

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       So that's like 10 years.

   17. JCJared Cannonier18:54

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       So I'd say we're at least three generations in. But it's more like four or five, 'cause the generations, they, they change in terms of like, um, there's, there's like-

   19. JCJared Cannonier19:06

       Skillset.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:06

       ... the skillset.

   21. JCJared Cannonier19:06

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:06

       The skillsets improve. You know, I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine about how, uh, people today, like everything they do today, they get a chance to see all the people who've done it before, and then it helps you get better, just like... There's more-

   23. JCJared Cannonier19:22

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:22

       ... if you wanna watch MMA fights, in the 1993-

   25. JCJared Cannonier19:26

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:26

       ... when the UFC1 was around, you couldn't see anything, like where-

   27. JCJared Cannonier19:29

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:29

       ... what are you gonna find?

   29. JCJared Cannonier19:30

       I watched my first MMA fight on a VHS tape.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:32

       Yeah.
8. 21:09 – 26:19

   Cannonier’s origin story: Army combatives, martial arts calling, and early competition

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:09

      ... get sanctioned, to have them in certain states. It was a, it's a grind. When you first started watching MMA, uh, how old were you?

   2. JCJared Cannonier21:20

      How old was I? When I first started watching?

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:22

      Yeah.

   4. JCJared Cannonier21:23

      Uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:25

      So when you saw your first-

   6. JCJared Cannonier21:25

      ... I was in Alaska when I first started watching. Um, when I wa- seen my first fight, I was in Dallas. I was transitioning from college into the military. So I was about 21, 20, 21. I was 21, yeah. So I, it was just a fight. My mother, she had, she was, uh, adopting children, and she had this, um, Ecuadorian, a Shaolin Ecuador, um, um, a Shaolin monk from Ecuadoria, right, an-

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:56

      Wow.

   8. JCJared Cannonier21:56

      ... Ecuadorian who was, who lived in a Shaolin temple and trained and lived that life. You know what I mean?

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:02

      Mm.

   10. JCJared Cannonier22:02

       And, uh, he would go outside and meditate and practice his art, practice kung fu and stuff like that. And, um, he found it on TV. I didn't even know it existed or anything like that, and he, he was watching it one day when I came in, and I sat down to watch that. I think I was watching... I can't remember the fight. I believe it was Shogun and somebody. But anyway, uh, I saw the fight, and it didn't really pique my interest at the time. But I was interested in it because, uh, 'cause I, I, I respected the competitive aspect of it. I definitely love martial arts and I was just seeing these people fight and stuff, but, um, I didn't see myself training at the time. At that time, a- again, I was transitioning from, from college to the army. So when I get in, when I get into the army, they have a Modern Army Combatives program, which is like basic white belt jujitsu, you know, minus a lot of the stuff that we do in pra- in actual jujitsu. But, uh, once I got my first hands-on experience with the martial arts, I was like, "Ooh, this is something I need to do with my vessel, with my body. This is something I'm meant to do."

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:09

       Hmm.

   12. JCJared Cannonier23:09

       You know what I mean? And even as a kid, you know, watching all the kung fu movies, the Ninja Turtles is big. I love the Ninja Turtles. Um, but all the martial arts stuff, I, I still, uh, you know, it interests me and stuff. On top of that, my daddy, uh, whenever I would go and visit him, he has a gym in his garage, a boxing bag, and me and my brothers would throw the gloves on and, and play around, not really taking it seriously as a martial artist, you know. But once I did it in the, in the, uh, in the army, I knew this is something that I need to do with my vessel, something I have to throw myself at. I have to engrain my, engrain into myself.

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:45

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JCJared Cannonier23:46

       So, uh, (clears throat) um, that was in basic training. And then luckily, in AIT, we had, uh, my Ai- my AIT phase, which was our training phase for our job in the military, um, my AIT phase...... my, one of my drill sergeants was, like, a level three combatives, uh ... Had, like, a level three proficiency in combatives. I think it goes, like, one to four or five or something like that. (sniffs) And, uh, there was a battalion, uh, combatives tournament that I could participate in. You know what I mean? So we were training for, like, a month, month and a half, maybe two months of training, uh, basic white belt jujitsu for the, the Modern Army Combatives thing, and I loved it, man. I was having fun, I was learning, I was exercising, I was applying my mental capacities to something that I wanted to apply it to, not something that I was ordered to comp- apply it to, or something I was trained to apply it to. (sniffs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:44

       Right.

   16. JCJared Cannonier24:45

       It was something that I wanted for myself. And, uh, it was one of the best times I had in the military, you know? One of the best aspects about the military that I liked. And, uh, I got all the way to, uh, second place in the tournament, you know? Um, I think I had, like, four matches. So I got all the way to second place, and, uh, the guy who took first place was, like, some football athlete, just some buck strong motherfucker, you know what I mean?

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:14

       (laughs)

   18. JCJared Cannonier25:14

       Who, um, who was just faster than me, you know what I'm saying? My technique wasn't able to, uh, get, get it done. So I took second place by, by points in that one, so it was all good.

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       So that's, that's the birthplace-

   20. JCJared Cannonier25:27

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:27

       ... of your martial arts journey.

   22. JCJared Cannonier25:28

       Of my martial arts journey, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:29

       And so in the Army Combatives program, how much striking did they have?

   24. JCJared Cannonier25:33

       Well, when you get up to a level three or four, I think that's when they start incorporating, uh, striking. And that's what I wanted to do throughout my-

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:40

       So were they ess-

   26. JCJared Cannonier25:40

       ... military career.

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:41

       ... were they essentially teaching, like, MMA? Are they, like ... Uh, how they're inc- they're incorporating grappling and striking.

   28. JCJared Cannonier25:46

       (clicks tongue) They weren't n- There wasn't MMA. I think they did, uh, at one ... When you get to the very tip-top of whatever you're d- uh, you're training, then they have, like, a MMA ... They combine it in MMA.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:58

       Oh, okay.

   30. JCJared Cannonier25:58

       But usually it's separate.
9. 26:19 – 36:26

   Elbows, Muay Thai craft, and iconic stoppages (Marquardt–Woodley)

   1. JRJoe Rogan26:19

      (smacks lips) Yeah, but why would you remove elbows?

   2. JCJared Cannonier26:24

      Well-

   3. JRJoe Rogan26:24

      They're too goddamn effective to remove. Like, you want-

   4. JCJared Cannonier26:26

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:26

      ... people to be proficient in elbows. You want someone in a hand-on-hand fight who breaks his hands to be able to throw elbows.

   6. JCJared Cannonier26:32

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:32

      And a, a person with really good elbows can do that. But a person who doesn't have good elbows is doomed.

   8. JCJared Cannonier26:37

      Mm-hmm. It's funny you say that, 'cause I broke my hand in a fight and I had to finish it with an elbow.

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:41

      There you go.

   10. JCJared Cannonier26:42

       With elbows.

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:42

       Yeah. I t- I can't imagine why any effective system would wanna remove elbows. You could-

   12. JCJared Cannonier26:49

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:49

       ... give guys elbow pads.

   14. JCJared Cannonier26:50

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:51

       You, you should have them at least practicing elbows. I mean, pra- obviously take care of your training partners. Don't try to smash their face in.

   16. JCJared Cannonier26:57

       Yeah. Well, I think, again, you gotta think of it like the amateurs. They don't want guys-

   17. JRJoe Rogan27:00

       Right.

   18. JCJared Cannonier27:00

       ... getting cut or-

   19. JRJoe Rogan27:01

       Right, in the fights.

   20. JCJared Cannonier27:02

       You know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan27:02

       Yeah.

   22. JCJared Cannonier27:03

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan27:03

       Yeah. But-

   24. JCJared Cannonier27:03

       So-

   25. JRJoe Rogan27:04

       ... but that's-

   26. JCJared Cannonier27:04

       And it's the military. They want their soldiers to be soldiers, not, you know, world-class fighters, so ...

   27. JRJoe Rogan27:10

       Yeah, but if you're gonna-

   28. JCJared Cannonier27:13

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan27:13

       ... teach them how to fight, teach them all the way, though. Like, don't teach them Taekwondo. You know what I'm saying?

   30. JCJared Cannonier27:16

       That's what you want for your military, right?
10. 36:26 – 41:34

    From Alaska gyms to UFC contender: late start, family sacrifices, and The Lab move

    1. JCJared Cannonier36:26

       Well, after I get out of the army... Well, I was trying to do it in the army, but that wasn't a priority. So, after I get out of the army, um, I relocate to Alaska. I ge- use my skills that I acquired in the army to get a job with the FAA, and I get hired on in Alaska. So, I relocate up there, me and my wife, and, uh... So, we relocate up there, and as soon as I get up there, I'm- I mean, there's a lot of time in between my exit from the army. I exited, what, 2008, December? And I'm, and I'm in Alaska July 2009. So, in between that time, you know, I just, I, I found a... I had the bug, so I found a judo gym. You know what I mean?

    2. JRJoe Rogan37:07

       Hmm.

    3. JCJared Cannonier37:07

       I'm broke, I'm broke as a joke right now. You know what I mean? I, I, I'm o- I'm on unemployment 'cause I just got out of the military, and my wife is pregnant. You know, we're, we found out two days before we had to clear post that we were pregnant, so, uh, it was pretty harrowing time for us. You know what I mean? But, uh, I still wanted to train, so I found myself a judo gym. (laughs) And, uh, I trained judo for about a month and a half, two months, and tried to pick up as much as I could. Um, in between that, that time, I was, uh, applying for the job with the FAA. Eventually, going through all that hiring process of, you know, interviews, and, um, a bunch of other things. Um, we relocate up to Alaska, and as soon as we get settled up there, me and my wife and my, uh, newly born, uh, daughter, I look- I'm looking for a gym. You know what I mean? And I find a Gracie Barra Alaska that's up there, and I get into it, you know. I started doing jujitsu. I'm like 300 pounds, you know what I mean? Training and stuff. In between this time, in between my army time in Alaska, I put on a bunch of weight, put on a bunch of baby weight.

    4. JRJoe Rogan38:10

       (laughs)

    5. JCJared Cannonier38:11

       So, um, I'm training jujitsu. You know what I mean? 300 pounds up there. Uh, throwing myself into this martial art. You know, I didn't even know about MMA. I wasn't concerning myself about being a UFC fighter or anything at that time, but, uh, one of these days, I just look up and see these guys that are, are striking. You know what I mean? So, that goes on for about a month or two, and I'm interested in it, and I wanted to get in shape first. So, uh, I didn't just throw myself into everything the gym had. I was just wanted to do focus on jujitsu, so I just did jujitsu for a couple of months, and then opportunity came up, and I just did, uh, a couple of the MMA classes, and it was fun. I was hooked. One thing led to another. I figured out they- I found out they had a MMA promotion in Alaska, the AFC. Um, so, uh, I trained for about a year from like the end of 2009, early 2010, to about early spring. It was about March 2011.

    6. JRJoe Rogan39:11

       So, w- where were you getting your striking in? You were getting your striking in-

    7. JCJared Cannonier39:14

       At the, at Gracie Barra Alaska.

    8. JRJoe Rogan39:15

       So, the guys that were striking there, you just joined in with them?

    9. JCJared Cannonier39:18

       Yeah, I just joined in with them.

    10. JRJoe Rogan39:19

        Was anybody, like, uh, a fighter?

    11. JCJared Cannonier39:21

        Well, they, it was an MMA team.

    12. JRJoe Rogan39:22

        Oh, so it was an MMA team.

    13. JCJared Cannonier39:23

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan39:24

        Yeah.

    15. JCJared Cannonier39:24

        Yeah. So, they had an actual MMA team, and there was an MMA promotion. There was a few-

    16. JRJoe Rogan39:28

        Wow.

    17. JCJared Cannonier39:28

        ... other gyms in the town as well. So, um, uh, I just threw myself in. I couldn't do it at first 'cause of work and stuff like that, and just being home with, with my daughter. But, um, uh, eventually I trickle, I trickled my way into it and got hooked, and it caused, I mean, it, it caused some friction at first, but, uh, me and my wife made the adjustments we needed to, which was either be close to work. Me, me personally, I either have to be close to where I work at or close to the gym, 'cause that's where I'll be spending most of my time at. So, um...

    18. JRJoe Rogan40:03

        How crazy is it when you think of that moment then, when you first started doing this. When he had to convince your wife-

    19. JCJared Cannonier40:10

        (laughs)

    20. JRJoe Rogan40:11

        ... and now, you're one of the top middleweights on planet Earth.

    21. JCJared Cannonier40:16

        It is crazy to think about.

    22. JRJoe Rogan40:17

        Crazy.

    23. JCJared Cannonier40:18

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan40:18

        Crazy. What a journey that is.

    25. JCJared Cannonier40:20

        A- and it's hard to think about it as it being crazy, 'cause you know, I'm in the driver's seat, so-

    26. JRJoe Rogan40:25

        Right.

    27. JCJared Cannonier40:25

        ... it just seems like the j- the road that I've been on. You know what I mean?

    28. JRJoe Rogan40:28

        Right.

    29. JCJared Cannonier40:29

        So, to- so a lot of people ev- a lot of people are astounded by it, you know. So, to go from a, I guess, a regular guy, to, like you said, the top middleweight in the world.

    30. JRJoe Rogan40:38

        (laughs)
11. 41:34 – 59:22

    Top-level growth: Vettori performance, Whittaker loss, and the Dricus surprise

    1. JRJoe Rogan41:34

       And like, all of your fights, like the Marvin Vettori fight was super impressive, man. That was a super impressive performance.

    2. JCJared Cannonier41:40

       Thank you.

    3. JRJoe Rogan41:41

       And it's just like, you're getting better. It's like we, we knew that you were elite as a middleweight, but you e- even through the fights that you've lost, you come back and you're better.

    4. JCJared Cannonier41:50

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan41:50

       Every time you're better. It's like you keep seeing that the path and the hard work is paying off with every fight.

    6. JCJared Cannonier41:56

       Yeah. And you know, c- that's interesting 'cause coach says it, uh, coach said it a very interesting way that once you get to that top level, the improvements are incremental at best. You know what I mean?

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:07

       Hmm.

    8. JCJared Cannonier42:07

       So, it's hard to see 'em.

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:08

       Yeah.

    10. JCJared Cannonier42:09

        And, uh, that's one of the things he's impressed by with me as well. He says 'cause I'm, I'm making...... semi-dramatic, and I don't wanna say drastic improvements, but I'm making some big improvements that are-

    11. JRJoe Rogan42:18

        You're making some big leaps.

    12. JCJared Cannonier42:19

        ... that are noticeable, you know?

    13. JRJoe Rogan42:20

        The movement in the Vettori fight was noticeable.

    14. JCJared Cannonier42:22

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan42:22

        That was, that was very impressive, that your movement was like, uh, it was, uh, there was much more activity going on. It was ju- it was v- really technical.

    16. JCJared Cannonier42:30

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan42:31

        Setting him up really, really well.

    18. JCJared Cannonier42:33

        And it's only gonna get better. I promise you that.

    19. JRJoe Rogan42:34

        I believe you.

    20. JCJared Cannonier42:35

        It's al- for me, it's already gotten better, 'cause I've been- I've moved on from that.

    21. JRJoe Rogan42:39

        Right.

    22. JCJared Cannonier42:40

        You know what I'm saying? So.

    23. JRJoe Rogan42:40

        But in- with a big fight like that, and a big win, is there also, like, this feeling, like almost like you've leveled up, like you've gone through- like you, you, you got affirmation? You knew it, you thought you were gonna beat him. Vettori's one of the best in the division for sure.

    24. JCJared Cannonier42:54

        Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan42:54

        He's a beast. That's a, that's another dude. Like, how the fuck does that guy make 185 pounds?

    26. JCJared Cannonier42:59

        (laughs) Yeah. He's a beast, right?

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:00

        He's a beast.

    28. JCJared Cannonier43:00

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:00

        He's a house.

    30. JCJared Cannonier43:01

        Yeah.
12. 59:22 – 1:18:34

    Mindset, identity, and ‘martial artist first’ philosophy

    1. JCJared Cannonier59:22

       It's gonna be a different thing, you know? Everybody, you know, we all saw the first one and nobody was too entertained by that. Not, especially me. So, um, I've made the adjustments not only to make it more entertaining 'cause I know that's what people want, to be entertained, but-

    2. JRJoe Rogan59:37

       Do you, do you have to balance that out in your head sometimes? Like be entertaining or-

    3. JCJared Cannonier59:40

       No. I don't concern myself with being entertaining or anything like that. It's n- not, it's, it's-

    4. JRJoe Rogan59:46

       Well, you are.

    5. JCJared Cannonier59:46

       ... furthest from me.

    6. JRJoe Rogan59:47

       You are fortunately, but your style's very entertaining, so you don't have to worry about that maybe.

    7. JCJared Cannonier59:50

       Well, it's just coincidental, right?

    8. JRJoe Rogan59:52

       Right. (laughs)

    9. JCJared Cannonier59:52

       Yeah. I like to hurt, I like to hit, but I, I, if anything, I'm entertaining myself 'cause this is fun-

    10. JRJoe Rogan59:57

        Mm.

    11. JCJared Cannonier59:58

        ... for me. You know what I mean?

    12. JRJoe Rogan59:58

        Right.

    13. JCJared Cannonier59:58

        I'm going in there having fun.

    14. JRJoe Rogan59:59

        Right.

    15. JCJared Cannonier1:00:00

        You know what I mean? Uh, and this is something I tell people all the time, you know, I don't think of this as a job. It is a career and I do get paid and it, it is my livelihood, but I don't approach it as my job or anything, like I have to go to work now. You know, this is something that me fighting is only merely a part of my training. You know what I mean? It's like the test you take. You know what I mean? Every couple of weeks you take a test in school or you challenge yourself somehow and that's the, that's, for me, that's what this is. This is the challenge. Marvin Vettori is the challenge. Israel Adesanya is the challenge. And my, and...... I'm here to, to conquer these challenges, you know what I mean? To-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

        That's a beautiful approach. So-

    17. JCJared Cannonier1:00:41

        Tha- that's why your fights are the best.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:41

        ... that's probably why you just keep getting better. That's why you keep getting re- it's, it's a fantastic mindset-

    19. JCJared Cannonier1:00:46

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

        ... for, uh, an elite fighter.

    21. JCJared Cannonier1:00:48

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

        The c- mon- mindset of constant growth, constant improvement.

    23. JCJared Cannonier1:00:50

        I'm always trying to learn. That's the only thing, that's the love of, that's the thing I love about it.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

        Yeah.

    25. JCJared Cannonier1:00:54

        'Cause I get to go into study, you know what I mean?

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

        Mm-hmm. Right.

    27. JCJared Cannonier1:00:59

        So, something that I want to learn. Something that I want to dissect, and analyze, and break down, and not only do it with my mind, but do it with my body as well. That's, that's something you can't really do a lot, you know what I'm saying? Operate-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:12

        Yeah.

    29. JCJared Cannonier1:01:13

        ... a field of, a field of thought with your mind and your body.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

        Well, it's also very impressive and very, um, inspirational to people that you're doing it at like, I think you're 39 now? You're 39?

Episode duration: 2:09:41