EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,024 words- 0:00 – 3:44
Post-fight recognition: Crawford’s Spence masterclass and pound-for-pound status
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
- TCTerence Crawford
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Terence Crawford, what's it like to be the fucking man?
- TCTerence Crawford
Man, it's great. I feel like I always been the man, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) You have been the man for a long time, but, uh, I think, uh, two weeks ago everybody realized it.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, everybody, uh, give me my recognition now and everybody give me my flowers, so it's a wonderful thing that I had to fight to, you know, get everybody approval.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's tricky in boxing sometimes because sometimes it's difficult to make those match-ups happen. In a dream match-up like that between 2 undefeated world champions, and for you to dominate the way you did, 'cause a lot of people had that, like, a pick-em fight. Like, a lot of people didn't know how to call it, but you just fucking ran that fight. You ran that fight. That was amazing.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, you know, that's a fight that we've been wanting for years, and, um, to finally secure the fight and perform the way that I performed, it was, it was a great moment for me and my career.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was beautiful, man. I mean, the ju- just the way you controlled, the way you switched things up, the way you controlled the pace of the fight, the defense. Your defense was on point. Those hooks that you were landing in close were magnificent. It was a brilliant fight, man. I mean, I'm sure you appreciate it, and I'm sure you watched it a bunch of times, but man, that was like a, a real... Because it was such a mainstream fight, such a huge fight where everybody was paying attention to it and talking about it, even casuals, that they got to see you perform that way, like, and, you know, now it's like there's no dispute. You're the number one pound-for-pound guy on earth.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. Uh, that's something that I gotta credit to my coaches, you know, because we drilled everything that you seen fight night, we drilled it time and time again, time and time again. So it was, it was... It came natural and easy for me when the, when the fight came. You know, like I said, only thing they kept saying, uh, how he's gonna beat me is because he's bigger and he's stronger. That was it.
- JRJoe Rogan
You looked stronger.
- TCTerence Crawford
Of course, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
And I was just like, "How do you know he's stronger than me?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
He might be bigger than me, but big don't mean stronger.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he's just taller than you.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You look more muscular than him too. But it was just the, the s- the technique was what really stood out.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like you just were a master in there. It was a master class.
- TCTerence Crawford
That's something that they wasn't giving me credit for as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
How?
- TCTerence Crawford
'Cause they said-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the thing. It's like how are they not?
- TCTerence Crawford
(laughs) You know, I don't know what it is, um, with me. They just always try to, uh, diminish my, my accomplishments and, oh, well, who I was fighting, they say, "Oh, well he wasn't fighting nobody." And this guy, Errol Spence, is the most, uh, fundamentally sound fighter in the game. So, um, that's why everybody was picking him, but I was favorite in Vegas, so Vegas must have had it right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well, the wise people picked you as a favorite. You know, just, just based on your accomplishments. It's not like Errol Spence wasn't a great fighter. He's a great fighter, but it's so interesting when you watch a great fighter against what I believe is an all-time great. It just that there's just levels upon levels upon levels upon levels, and right now you're at the top of the fucking mountain. (laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
Yes, yes, yes, and I, and I'm, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it.
- 3:44 – 5:50
Why the Spence fight took five years: boxing politics, splits, and leaving Top Rank
- JRJoe Rogan
Beautiful. You deserve it. You deserve it. That's a... When, when you planned for that fight, you knew that you were probably gonna fight him, like, for the last few years it was something that was on the table.
- TCTerence Crawford
Well, not really. Uh, there was a point, there was a point in time where (clears throat) I was like, you know, uh, I shifted gears and I shifted my mind off of Errol Spence because, um, I didn't feel like the fight was gonna happen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
But once I left Top Rank and we started negotiating, I was like, "Oh, well, maybe this fight will happen." And then o- once I fought Avanesyan because the, uh, conversations, uh, and everything that we was, uh, talking about to get the fight done, it wasn't lining up to what I wanted. So, I decided to take another fight and then I came back to the table and like, "Hey, listen. Let's get this fight made." And, uh, at that point in time things wasn't going how I woulda liked it to go, so I just hit up Spence like, "Hey, man. Listen, man. If, if me and you gonna fight, me and you gonna get this done," because, you know, there's a lot of people that's blocking the fight right now.
- JRJoe Rogan
How were they blocking? Like what was the, what was the holdup?
- TCTerence Crawford
Well, just business-wise, you know, I just felt like I was worth X amount and they felt like I wasn't. And, uh, they wanted to do the deal a certain way, and I wanted to do the deal, uh, the fair way. And, um, Errol Spence seen it. He was just, he was, he was agreeing with everything that I said. He was like, "Yeah, we can do this, we can do that." And he probably felt like he gave up too much, you know, at the, at the end when it was all said and done, but I was, I felt like everything was fair.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it in terms of, like, the purse split?
- TCTerence Crawford
Everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everything?
- TCTerence Crawford
We, we, we talked about everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And so th- this fight had been discussed for like how many years now? At least-
- TCTerence Crawford
Five.
- JRJoe Rogan
... five years. Wow. That's crazy that it takes that long for something like this-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to happen in boxing.
- 5:50 – 9:21
Underrated greatness: ‘he hasn’t fought anybody’ and the Roy Jones Jr. comparison
- TCTerence Crawford
When I came, when I came, uh, to the welterweight division, I called out all the champions, except Shawn Porter. I called out all the champions. I wanted them all.... you know, at that time. And, uh, I wasn't able to get, uh, get in the ring with any of them and at that point in time, they was calling Errol Spence the Boogeyman. And my reply was, "How is he the Boogeyman when I'm chasing him?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know, um, I just wanted to prove to the world that, that I was better than what they say I was because given the fact that how great I looked against each opponent, they say, "Oh, well, he wasn't nothing." Or, "He was this, he, he was that-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
... because how talented I am.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
So, they didn't wanna give me no credit because I passed all my tests with flying colors, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
It was great to get in the ring with Errol Spence Jr. and do the same thing, if not better, than I did for the past opponents that I faced.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, you were on fire. It, it was- it's, it's sort of the same thing that Roy Jones Jr. faced. Like, everybody's like, "Roy hasn't beaten anybody." Like, yes, he has.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just he's so much better than everybody else that he was making everybody else look like they weren't any good.
- TCTerence Crawford
Definitely.
- JRJoe Rogan
Those were world championship caliber fighters and Roy was just lighting 'em up.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's- that- sometimes when a fighter eclipses everyone else and reaches the pinnacle, that's the criticism they face until there's an undeniable moment, you know, and that was, that was your undeniable moment. Like, "Everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now." (laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, yeah. And that's, and that's what, you know, uh, my, my feelings was. You know, a lot of people like, "Man, you didn't look too happy, you know, after, after you won. After you won, I didn't see the excitement in you, in you." I was like, man, I was happy. I was happy just- I had to prove myself, you know, to the world, how great I knew I was, but at the same time, I was kinda disappointed at the same time that it took this long for me to get my recognition and for me to get a big marquee fight of this status at 35 years old.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Especially after chasing it for five years.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right. And I was chasing Manny Pacquiao for probably five years probably before that. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
So it's like, I've been champion for nine years, going on 10 years in March, so I've been doing this game for a long time, you know. And, uh, I've been at the top since, since, since I beat Gamboa and I've been looking for all the biggest challenges there is, and some of 'em, I was able to, to capture and some of 'em went the other way. And I'm just blessed to be able to be the first man to be undisputed in the junior welterweight division, the first man to be undisputed in the welterweight division in the before belt era, the first man to be undisputed in two weight divisions. So, um, it's a blessing. It's a blessing.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is a huge blessing. It's a- it's an amazing accomplishment. You looked happy.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You were dancing with your mom, you were having a good time.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know why people thought you weren't happy.
- TCTerence Crawford
Because, you know, when you, when you go in the back room, everybody wanna see the excitement.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
I was just like, "Ah, I got that off my back."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well you knew you had it.
- 9:21 – 11:17
Minimal film study and in-fight adjustments: Crawford’s preparation philosophy
- JRJoe Rogan
Was there anything unusual about that fight? Like, did- is that exactly how you expected the exchanges to go? I'm sure you watched a ton of tape on him, right?
- TCTerence Crawford
Actually, I didn't.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TCTerence Crawford
I didn't because a lot of people always ask me do I watch a lot of film on my opponents and I always tell 'em no because I have a different style. They not gonna fight me the same style or the same way that they fought their previous opponents. They just not, you know. Uh, so I already knew how he fought. I just watched probably like two fights of his just to get a feel for what he like to do, what he don't like, the things that, you know, I can capitalize on, and that's it. Like, I don't watch too much film because I'm gonna make my adjustments on the fly inside the ring. So yeah, I don't watch too much film.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's interesting. What is the- the general consensus on that, about watching film? Do most champions watch film? Is it- is it just on an individual basis?
- TCTerence Crawford
No, some people like to watch film to where they feel as if they know, uh, what their opponent's gonna do, when they're gonna do it, because they got certain habits to, uh, identify, uh, when they're gonna throw a punch or, or when they're gonna back up. Certain things that you, you see as a, as a top athlete, you start noticing, "Okay, I notice that he's doing this when he's doing this. He's doing that when he's doing this." And, uh, you pick up on that, and so you, you put it in your, in your mind like, "Okay, we gonna prepare for this. When he do that, we gonna do this." So you try to capitalize on it. But me, I never was that type of person. My- I let my coaches, they do the, uh, studying and then they come up with a plan and then they shoot me the plan, the- the plan to win and we just go from there.
- 11:17 – 16:39
Southpaw decision, stance switching, and the childhood hand injury that built ambidexterity
- JRJoe Rogan
When you switch, 'cause you're, you're, in my opinion, the best ever at switching from orthodox to southpaw since Marvin Hagler. You're the best ever. Like, when do you dec- when do you decide? Do you just feel it? Do you go out there southpaw sometimes and say, "I'm gonna fucking switch it up?" Like, how do you- how do you make those- those changes?
- TCTerence Crawford
Well, I think I made the change to fight southpaw, uh, in the back dress room.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, 'cause I was like, "Man, how should I come out?" 'Cause in my mind I was just so filled with like the energy from the weigh-ins, the press conference, the weight, the- the- the moment. So I was like, "Man, I just wanna go out there and..." You know, everybody saying I'm too small, so I wanted to prove 'em wrong. Everybody was saying he was gonna walk me down, so I was just like, "Man, you know, they just don't know." Like, I just had that chip on my shoulder, like, I just want to go, go head on with the bull and just go fight him. And they was like, "Just box."I was like, "Just box." And then I was remembering, I was like, "He ever fought too many southpaws before." And then on one of the occasions, he got hurt real bad by a hook. So I was like, "I'm coming out south paw and I'm, and we gonna box just to start off, but at the same time, I'm gonna get my respect out the gate. I'm not going to be doing all that moving." So the plan was never to move and everybody, when you interview 'em, they was like, "Oh, Terence gotta be, uh, slippery. He can't stand in front of Spence. He can't do this. He gotta get on his bicycle." I'm like, "He ain't no Terminator." I'm like, "Man-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
... I'm gonna be right there in front of him, like I always do. You know, I'm gonna make him miss, I'ma make him pay, and I'm gonna fight my, my fight." So, uh, I felt like that was the key for, uh, the victory because he wasn't used to fighting southpaws.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you feel as comfortable orthodox as southpaw? Does there ... Do you feel like you're better in one stance or is it just depending upon the opponent?
- TCTerence Crawford
I think it's dependent on the opponent. You know, uh, I feel I'm equally as, uh, great in both stands. I'm very powerful in s- both stands. Um, I hit just as hard with my left, probably even harder with my left than my right, you know, but, uh, I think it's the opponent.
- JRJoe Rogan
They were talking about it in the broadcast. They said that when you were a kid, you hurt your hand, and so that's why you started practicing southpaw.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, that's when I started actually practicing it, you know. Uh, that was something that, uh, when I, when I, when I had the cast on, I was like, man, I love the gym so much. I'm like, man, I'm not leaving the gym. Like, I'm gonna practice with this left. And that's when I got the left stronger. Because at first, when I go southpaw, it was only, you know, my right, my right, my right. And then when my hand got messed up, just start working on the left and it started getting stronger and stronger, and I start getting more accurate. 'Cause at first, just throw it just to be throwing it, and then, you know, it just got to a point where they both ... My left was actually way stronger than my right when it came back. So I had to get my right back stronger.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's cra- It's crazy that you have that option, 'cause that's such a amazing advantage to be able to fight just as comfortably from orthodox to southpaw.
- TCTerence Crawford
Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. You know, um, I look at it like, you can't go nowhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
Like you trapped. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
... you move to your left, I can go southpaw and cut you off. You move to your right, I can go orthodox and cut you off. So, and then it, and then it is great that I can pack a punch in both hands as well, because a lot of people when they switch, they give up something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
I think when I switch, I gain something in both stands that I probably don't have in the other stands.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- TCTerence Crawford
So, um, it's great for me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did anybody ever try to discourage you from switching up that much?
- TCTerence Crawford
Of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did they?
- TCTerence Crawford
My, my coach, he used to always ...
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
He used to get mad, like, "You need to focus on, uh, one stance and doing it right before you start switching. You ain't even got the ork- orthodox stance down pat, uh, all the way, and then you trying to go southpaw." I'm like, "All right, all right." Then I go orthodox, and then in the fight, boom.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
I switch, then I switch back. He like, "Stop switching."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
And then I win the fight like, "What?" (laughs)
- 16:39 – 17:40
Tactical breakdown: turning up pressure, setting traps, and assessing Spence’s power
- JRJoe Rogan
It seemed like after you dropped him in the second, right, uh, somewhere in like the middle of the third, you started to turn the heat up, then you started closing the distance and you were like smothering him. You know, like somewhere in the third, it seemed like you picked up the intensity. Is that when you felt like you started to get to him?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt like I was, I was in control the whole fight, you know. Um, the first round neither one of us really did anything. We was kind of just feeling each other out. The second round, he kind of started picking it up a little bit and, um, I, I caught him with them two shots. I feel like that's what led me to get more control because I w- I felt as if I, I caught him off guard. He wasn't expecting me to punch as hard as I did. So I could see on his face he was kind of like, "Whoa." You know? And then the rest, you know, I was in control.
- 17:40 – 21:57
What’s next: chasing three-time undisputed and the audacious Canelo-at-168 vision
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you were in control. It was ... It's an amazing performance. But now that you've accomplished this, and now that you're the first man ever to be undisputed in two different weight classes, like what are the offers now? Are people coming out ... 'Cause I've hear, I hear all this talk about Jermell. I hear this talk about Canelo. Like, where, where are they at right now?
- TCTerence Crawford
Well, you know, Canelo and Jermell is fighting. I wanted to fight, uh, Jermell next since he was the, uh, 154 pound undisputed, uh, champion. But as you know, they gonna strip him for his belt once the bell ring when he fight Canelo.
- JRJoe Rogan
So your goal was to go up and become undisputed in three different weight classes.
- TCTerence Crawford
There you go. There you go.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh. Wow.
- TCTerence Crawford
Something that never been done before.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
And, you know, uh...... is greatness. Like I said, this is my era and I'm, I'm taking it. Ain't nobody gonna stop me. So, now I need to shift gears because I know I wanted to fight Jermell, but if he lose to Canelo, I wouldn't... I always said, man, that's a big step. That's a big step. But for a person to go up three weight classes, from 147 to 168, and to win?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
And become undisputed? Wow. What can they say?
- JRJoe Rogan
What can they say?
- TCTerence Crawford
They can't say, they can't say nothing right now, but what can they say?
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, then, then you're in, like, the greatest of all time discussion.
- TCTerence Crawford
I'm already in them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you are.
- TCTerence Crawford
In them discussions.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
But I'm saying, but what would they say, though?
- JRJoe Rogan
They can't-
- TCTerence Crawford
Three-time Undisputed Champion-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
... and the, and the smaller fighter that went up three weight divisions to conquer one of the, the baddest mans, besides hisself, that's been doing it for probably longer than me.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you said 68, but you r- you mean 54, right?
- TCTerence Crawford
No, 68.
- JRJoe Rogan
You wanna go up to 68?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, so who would you fight at 68, Canelo?
- TCTerence Crawford
If he w- yeah, if he win.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- TCTerence Crawford
Or Charlo. W- the winner.
- 21:57 – 30:05
Training camp habits: swimming, light weights, cutting weight, and recovery routines
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. What kind of, uh, strength and conditioning routine do you do now? Do you... 'Cause, how much... Is it difficult for you to make 47 or is it pretty easy?
- TCTerence Crawford
No, it was a little difficult.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- TCTerence Crawford
It was a little difficult. Yeah. I had to wear the little plastics and sauna suits this, this time. But, you know, I don't know what it is. I go up in weight and then the weight be going up on me. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Your body adapts.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Likes the heat, likes to get thick.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right. So.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
So it's cool, though. It's cool.
- JRJoe Rogan
So when... Like, at a, at a normal camp, um, what does your training routine consist of? Like, do you, do you do running? Do you do strength and conditioning workouts in the gym? Like, what do you do as far as, like, physical preparation?
- TCTerence Crawford
I do it all. I run, I swim, strength and condition, um, plyometrics, all that.
- JRJoe Rogan
You do swimming?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of people are doing swimming now.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, I been doing that my whole career.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really? What do you like about swimming?
- TCTerence Crawford
I just think, you know, it helps on your breathing. It helps on your breathing, your endurance. It, it's, it's better on your joints.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know? Because we don't run every day.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
So, um, yeah, it, it, it helps tremendously.
- JRJoe Rogan
And do you lift weights?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. Yeah. But not, not, not heavy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
We lift probably, like, 20 pounds, like, something light.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Just a lot of endurance work.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- 30:05 – 34:16
Diet quirks, no beef/pork, and the colon cleanse detour
- JRJoe Rogan
So when you say, like, like for Bernard, like, he preserved his body. I know you're very disciplined and I know that, like, are y- are you, do you ever take time, like, after a big fight like that where you go off the rails and eat pizza every day and go crazy or do you stay disciplined?
- TCTerence Crawford
Well, I don't eat beef or pork, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't eat beef or pork?
- TCTerence Crawford
Or pork.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. But my, uh, my eating habits is not the best, you know. I still drink pop here and there. I still... I didn't lighten up on candy. I used to eat...... tons of candy, like, every day.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TCTerence Crawford
I used to eat tons of candy, but, you know, I don't think-
- JRJoe Rogan
While you were fighting?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
In camp, too. I don't know. It was just something that... Listen, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna make weight, I'm gonna get everything done, but I'm, I'ma have my candy.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
And like-
- JRJoe Rogan
What kind of candy?
- TCTerence Crawford
I just liked the... you know, uh, the Jolly Ranchers, the chewy ones. Just chewy, chewy candy. The Starbursts, the, uh, the gummies. I used to just always eat those.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, when you're training a lot, it's not bad to have a little extra sugar.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, Floyd used to drink sodas after he trained.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And everybody's like, "Why would he do that?" But then I talked to a nutritionist, and he's like, it's actually, after a very hard workout, like, uh, sparring and hitting the bag, it's actually a good way to replenish glucose.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. That's, that's, that's probably why I always was drinking, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
Uh, and cutting weight. I don't know why when I'm cutting weight, I'd be like, all right, even though water... I mean, even though pop gonna make me more thirsty, I'd be like, "I need a Sprite." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
I need a Sprite, a cold Sprite. And they'd be like, "What?" I'd be like, "I just need this Sprite."
- JRJoe Rogan
How come you don't eat beef or pork?
- TCTerence Crawford
I... Uh, I don't eat beef. Pork is just, you know, bad for you, and it's not healthy, you know. And I think when, uh... Beef, I stopped eating beef, like, probably like seven years ago. Probably even more than that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. Um, I had, I had back problems, and I was like, "Man, my back was just hurting so bad," and I didn't know what it was. So I went to the hospital. I went to the, to the emergency. And so they did the, uh, MRI and CAT scan and stuff like that on my back, and I had backed up shit all up my back.
- 34:16 – 36:22
Drug testing and transparency: Victor Conte, positives, and cleaning up boxing
- JRJoe Rogan
And you're also... I saw on... Uh, are you a part of that snack thing, too?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So that's a... What that is, is, uh... That... Is that, um, that dude from BALCO?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
Victor Conti.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So Victor Cont-... He was on the podcast back in the day. So he's the guy that busted... Or he got busted-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... for... With Barry Bonds-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and the, the clear where they were giving him that undetectable steroids.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And now he's on the other side of it.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's making sure that the whole sport is clean.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And nobody knows better than him because he cheated for years.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
And they, and they hate it. They hate it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
... because you'll see a lot of people like, "Oh, man, this dude was a cheater. This dude was this, this dude was that." And then, you know, you can't get nothing past them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he was a cheater, but, you know, just because a guy was a che-... Look, first of all, that's the kind of guy you would want-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... being involved in cheating-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and ch- catching cheating.
- TCTerence Crawford
But he trying to clean up the whole sport.
- 36:22 – 42:41
Heavyweight talk and cross-combat debates: Wilder power, Fury’s resilience, and Jon Jones comparisons
- JRJoe Rogan
Also, him fighting Helenus after Deontay starched him. That's like... 'Cause everyone's gonna prepare... compare you, rather.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause Deontay, Deontay hits so hard it's... It doesn't even make sense.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He hits so, he, he hits so different-
- TCTerence Crawford
Definitely.
- JRJoe Rogan
... than everybody else.
- TCTerence Crawford
Definitely.
- JRJoe Rogan
It doesn't make sense, man. The Helenius fight, he was, like, moving back, and he went like that, blap.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, he-
- JRJoe Rogan
And that dude just shut off.
- TCTerence Crawford
He blessed with, with dynamite in, in, in that right hand, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like nobody before.
- TCTerence Crawford
Nobody.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like nobody. Like nobody. In the history of the heavyweight division, we have some giant punchers, Ernie Shavers-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... George Foreman, Mike Tyson, but I put Deontay-
- TCTerence Crawford
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... at the top of the heap.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right. (laughs) Hey, he, he... I don't know. I don't know, man, 'cause those guys, you know what I mean, they was tough as nails back in the days.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
But I think Deontay Wilder, man, he hit you couple of times with that right hand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
If you ain't Tyson Fury, you going to sleep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. He's the only dude.
- TCTerence Crawford
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
He's the only dude. The first fight was bananas.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
When he catches him with that right hand and the left hook as he's going down, then Deontay goes like this, "Ah," and he thought it was over, and this motherfucker rises like the undertaker.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yes.
- 42:41 – 47:01
Boxing vs MMA business realities: records, pay structures, and fighter respect
- TCTerence Crawford
So what you think on, uh...... about the business, uh, side of MMA and, and boxing.
- JRJoe Rogan
In what way?
- TCTerence Crawford
In, like, you know, the way of the fighters getting, you know... not getting what they deserve.
- JRJoe Rogan
In MMA?
- TCTerence Crawford
And boxing. Both.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you know, it's tricky, right? Like this whole thing with you and Spence, like trying to negotiate a p- a proper contract. You know, there's a lot of vultures. There's a lot of weasels. The one good thing about the UFC is that there's one organization that controls it.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
The one bad thing about the UFC is that there's one organization that controls it. So you got good and bad. So, like, if I was a manager of a fighter, I would want fighters... Like, like with your career, where you're tested and you're, you're, you're facing ever increasing challenges, but it's calculated. It's calculated, and you, you get lessons from each fight. And then you build up to a point where you're ready to challenge for a title. Like Jon Jones fought for the title when he was 22. I mean, it was a last-minute fight. Um, Rashad Evans got hurt and Jon Jones went in to fight Shogun. Jon was just so fucking talented, so above everybody else, that he dominated that fight and walked away the world champion and destroyed Shogun. He opened up the fight with a flying knee.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
22 years old, first title fight, opens up with a flying knee. Who the fuck does that? Nobody does it.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everybody would be nervous, everybody be... Jon just so loose and creative in there. But in MMA, a lot of times fighters get fights they're really not ready for.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they have to take the fight.
- TCTerence Crawford
And I'm not talking about the aspect of... I'm talking about the business side of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the business side, it, it g- b- speaks to that as well because for a fighter to get to a point where they're undefeated and they have a big name, then they start getting the big money.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then they're the headline of the card. And, you know, I think there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of good in that. There's a lot of good in preparing a fighter properly. Like you see a lot of fighters when they fight for a title, they might have, like, 16-1, 16-0. Like people like undefeated records.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's very rare that a UFC fighter gets all the way to a title fight without some losses.
- TCTerence Crawford
Definitely.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think that also speaks to the, the style differences. The wrestling, the kickboxing, all the different things that you might face inside the octagon and having to prepare for that, but...
- TCTerence Crawford
That's one thing I like about MMA. You know, uh, those guys, they still great fighters. They still get praise, you know, even though they probably got five losses.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know, one loss don't define how great they is, you know, um, compared to boxing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know? Uh, look how the media and how people is bashing Errol Spence, like he's not great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Crazy.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know what I mean? Just because he lost to a all-time great fighter in myself.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 47:01 – 1:03:57
Crawford’s mindset and upbringing: his mom’s toughness, early anger, and staying authentic
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, one of the most crazy stories about your career is your mom.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's about how your mom just never gave you any praise.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just like, "Nope, not good enough."
- TCTerence Crawford
She was tough. She was, she was tough, you know what I mean? And I, I love my mom to death. That's my, that's my heart. That's my girl, you know what I mean? But that was just her way of pushing me to be great, you know what I mean? And, um, she just knew that her son was, was, was so competitive. She was just like, "All right. Let me see how competitive you is. Let me... Come here little kid."
- JRJoe Rogan
You would... He-
- TCTerence Crawford
She-
- JRJoe Rogan
... she would pay people to try to beat you up. (laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. No. Well, well we have gloves. We have gloves. And you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
... 'cause I come from a, a... My, my family was all into boxing. My dad's side of the family, uh, my mom's side of the family. So, she was always tough. So she'll get the little kids in the neighborhood. $5 if they can, if they can win. We'll be in the front yard and, you know, I, I'll beat 'em all up.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
I'll beat 'em all up. I'd be like, "Now, what? You give me the money."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's amazing how it worked. I mean, now, it's not something like I think a psychologist would recommend for raising a child.
- TCTerence Crawford
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But sometimes they're wrong.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? And it depends on the person whether or not they can rise to that challenge. And obviously-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it made you great.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, I think that's why I said, you know, um, I love to hear the, the doubters, the naysayers because I think it's something in me from my past trauma with my mom. You know, me trying to, trying to prove her wrong. You know, me fighting for her, you know, um, approval. So, you know, it goes back to when I was a kid when, you know, she would say, "Oh man, you ain't, you ain't gonna win it."... and I go out there and win. I come back with the belt, and she taking pictures with the belt.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
"Look, look what my son got. Look what my son did." You know what I mean? But then, you know, when, when it's just me and her, "You still ain't shit."
- JRJoe Rogan
(screams) (laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
"You ain't... You ain't gonna win the next one." You know what I mean? So, I laugh and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's amazing.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah. So it was just, you know, uh, my mom knew what she was doing at a... For, for me, at a young age. She was instilling, you know, mentally, toughness.
- 1:03:57 – 1:15:39
Boxing’s future and matchmaking: Pacquiao fight that never happened, Boots Ennis, Haney–Loma, and Shakur/Tank
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, and then it puts you in this category where people go, "Okay, well, what other champions can move around in weight classes, or go up, or come down?" Like, you know, there's... I know there's been a lot of discussion about different people from different weight classes coming up to you. Is there anything else that's interesting to you other than Canelo or Jermell?
- TCTerence Crawford
Nah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Nothing?
- TCTerence Crawford
Nope.
- JRJoe Rogan
You just need, like, dragons to slay. (laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know what I mean? Like, at this point in your life you can't even fight a regular fighter.
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, like, I don't know. Like, I get excited when... I don't know why. I get excited when I talk about Canelo like I used, used to get excited about Pacquiao.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TCTerence Crawford
You know, I used to get s- uh, so excited, like, "Man, I'm gonna be able to fight Pacquiao." You know? Because-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that the one you think got away?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah, it definitely did. It definitely did. I tried, I tried my eyes out.
- JRJoe Rogan
What stopped that fight from happening?
- TCTerence Crawford
They didn't want the fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's too dangerous.
- TCTerence Crawford
They didn't want the fight. Freddie Roach said he didn't want the fight. They... H- Pacquiao handlers didn't want the fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know, I believe Pacquiao, as a fighter, he wanted to fight, but they didn't want to fight for him, so, you know, um, it just got away. Uh, when... Looking back at, like, Floyd career, like, him coming up in the, in the, in the, uh, era that he came up in, he had all them champions that he was able to fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
And that's what led him to be, uh, so great, you know, because he fought the most champions, beat the most champions, you know, got the most money for beating the most champions. So it was just like, man, he had this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. Back to back, the fight, one after one, you know? And, um, when I was coming at the peak of my career, they all retired. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
So it's like, I can't get these guys' name on my resume, you know what I mean? So it's just like, you know, um, now I'm the old guy in the, uh, in the area, you know, that the young guys wanna try to get a piece of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TCTerence Crawford
... to build their legacy and, uh, put names on their resume. And it's just gonna keep... History gonna keep repeating itself.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, there's always gonna be a new guy coming up. And there's... Like, right now, you got Boots Ennis-
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that's in your weight class.
- TCTerence Crawford
Definitely.
- 1:15:39 – 1:22:59
Fixing boxing’s structure: too many belts, sanctioning fees, and fighter protections
- TCTerence Crawford
... you know, in the negotiations, but, you know, uh, it should be some ty- type of form where, you know, these fights should be mandatory to happen so you can clean up the sport of boxing and it can only be one champion in one division, like the UFC.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
You know? I think we got too many titles. I think we got too many sanction bodies. I think, you know, uh, we need to clean up the sport as a whole. I think the fights need... I mean, the fighters need, you know, pensions. We need 401Ks. We need a union. We need, uh, health, health, uh, insurance. Think we need all that, you know. Uh, we put our life on the line to go out here and entertain, you know, the people, and once, once we done entertaining, we leave home, you know, and we come home not the same fighter that we once was wh- when we left. You know? And, uh, it's heartbreaking to see a lot of these old time fighters, you know, that speaking impaired and, you know, uh, can't enjoy the fruit of their labor or just flat out broke and they gave their, their life to the sport and do- doesn't have anything to show for it, and I think that's wrong. I think, you know, we need to create something to where at least the fighters can, you know, live comfortable after the sport of boxing, given if, you know, something dramatic was to happen or, you know, you didn't put in a certain amount of years in a sport, that you can pay in on your own, um, to have you a 401K so wh- when you retire you got some type of income coming in. Because when you getting that much money so fast and so frequently, you just spend it. You just spend it because in your mind, "I'm gonna fight again and I'm gonna get it again. I'm gonna fight again, then I'm gonna get it again." But then you start living off of that, and then once you get to the end- tail end of your career, you're like, "Damn, I done spent millions and millions and I got a couple of more fights." Now you're struggling, you know, because you gotta pay taxes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerence Crawford
If not, they coming to take everything you got. And then, you know, you pay taxes, now you got not even half of that. And now you looking like, "Damn, I gotta make this stretch." And then you ain't got no work ethic, skills because you've been boxing your whole life. You didn't go to college to get no, uh, curricular skills in other lanes. So, uh, yeah, I think we, we need to create something to clean up the sport of boxing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think it's possible to eliminate the sanctioning bodies? I mean, the only person that can kinda do it is a guy like you. 'Cause like if you're a world champion in four different organiza- you're undisputed. There's no one that could say they're the welterweight champion of the world except for Terence Crawford. If you say, "All these belts are bullshit, like, I'm the fucking champion," whether it's the Ring magazine belt or whatever you, you sanction, whatever you sanction.
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think it's possible to do something like that?
- TCTerence Crawford
I think it is. I think, I think anything is possible. You know? I think, you know, Floyd, I think Canelo, they showed us time and time again that it's not about the belts. When you get to a certain point in your career, you bigger than the belts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
Uh, coming up, everybody wanna be a champion. But once you get your name out there and you become a mega star or star, the belts don't mean nothing. We paying for the belts.
- JRJoe Rogan
How much do you have to pay?
- TCTerence Crawford
We gotta pay like, what, 3%?
- JRJoe Rogan
Three percent?
- TCTerence Crawford
Mm-hmm. Two percent, three percent, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Tha- that's crazy.
- TCTerence Crawford
Definitely. So it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so crazy.
- TCTerence Crawford
It's like I'm paying you to make me a belt.
- JRJoe Rogan
And do you have to pay three percent to each individual section?
- TCTerence Crawford
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- TCTerence Crawford
Some of 'em is different. Some of 'em is three, some of 'em two. You know, so it's like I'm paying for you to come out here and watch me fight to, to give me a belt that, you know what I mean, I'm already paying for. Like, come on now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
I'm paying you. You not paying me, I'm paying you. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TCTerence Crawford
... the only one that really matter is the ring belt because it's free. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TCTerence Crawford
It's free. Like, why do I gotta pay to be champion?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
Episode duration: 2:03:50
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Transcript of episode Wi0nMTtLr48
