The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #39 with Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:58
Beers, going back to 155, and how the Mike Perry fight got made
Joe and Cowboy kick off with beers and immediately jump into Cerrone’s current situation: trying to return to lightweight and then getting pulled into a Mike Perry matchup. Cowboy explains the UFC Performance Institute visit and the chain of short-notice fight offers that led to Perry in Denver.
- •Cowboy’s plan to return to 155 and why Dana discouraged it (age/weight cut concerns)
- •UFC Performance Institute testing and seeking a structured plan to justify 155
- •How the Perry fight offer emerged in the aftermath of other fight reshuffles
- •Cowboy’s 10-days-notice mindset and the realities of getting medically cleared
- 2:58 – 5:37
Jackson-Wink loyalty rupture: why Cowboy says he was pushed out
Rogan asks why longtime coaches Jackson/Winkeljohn ended up cornering Mike Perry while Perry was being matched with Cowboy. Cowboy describes the internal dispute as a betrayal of loyalty, claiming the gym chose money and a newer fighter over a decade-long relationship.
- •Cowboy’s long tenure at the gym and why this felt personal
- •His request: Perry shouldn’t train there during this camp if he’s fighting Cowboy
- •Cowboy’s account of Winkeljohn’s phone call and ‘getting paid’ rationale
- •Why Cowboy frames it as a loyalty and ethics issue, not a problem with Perry
- 5:37 – 12:33
How Cowboy came up at Jackson’s—and why the gym feels ‘different’ now
Cowboy rewinds to his early days with the Tapout crew and Leonard Garcia, describing how he moved to Albuquerque and found a family-like pro environment. He contrasts that old culture with what he calls a “puppy mill” model where anyone can drop in and spar pros.
- •Leonard Garcia connection and Cowboy’s move that became permanent
- •Old Jackson’s era: elite rooms, controlled access, shared mission
- •Current gym critique: open-door sparring, uneven safety, and churn
- •Emotional weight: heartbreak watching a legendary camp change
- 12:33 – 17:19
Training control, coaching quality, and building the BMF Ranch as an alternative
Cowboy expands his critique: cookie-cutter coaching, declining infrastructure, and questionable staff quality—especially in wrestling. He explains why he created the BMF Ranch to control partners, coaching, and training direction, and how that changes a fighter’s role.
- •Why Cowboy never paid Winkeljohn and didn’t like his approach
- •Need for objective coaches to manage intensity, tapering, and focus
- •Allegations of constant coach turnover and poor technical instruction
- •BMF Ranch as a controlled ecosystem for sparring partners and camp planning
- 17:19 – 29:22
Life on the ranch: acreage, hunting, and the ‘cult leader’ sales pitch
The conversation pivots into Cowboy’s remote New Mexico lifestyle—land, wildlife, and why he loves it despite joking it’s hard to sell. Stories about his grandpa buying the property in cash segue into Cowboy’s values around loyalty and family.
- •40-acre ranch details, isolation, and why it suits Cowboy’s personality
- •Wildlife talk: antelope behavior, birds, hunting culture
- •Grandpa’s cash purchase story and family support
- •Grandma’s advice on anger vs logic and not burning bridges lightly
- 29:22 – 35:28
Vegas detour: Monster conference, gambling wins, and breakdancing nostalgia
From the gym drama, they veer into Cerrone’s night in Vegas for a Monster event—baccarat, conference antics, and Cowboy unexpectedly breakdancing in boots. Rogan connects breakdancing athleticism to grappling and body control.
- •Cowboy’s first experience playing baccarat and winning big
- •Monster conference environment and the ‘breakdancing team’ surprise
- •Cowboy’s old breakdancing background and performing in cowboy boots
- •Why breakdancers often translate well to jiu-jitsu (strength/control)
- 35:28 – 47:22
DMT ceremony: Cowboy’s first psychedelic breakthrough
Cowboy describes being invited into a ceremonial DMT setting (chants, music, intention-setting) and narrates two intense trips in vivid detail. Rogan contextualizes the ritual elements as ‘technology’ that amplifies the experience.
- •Cowboy’s ‘no drugs’ identity before DMT and why ceremony mattered
- •Trip #1: kaleidoscopic launch, third-person view, injuries glowing white
- •Trip #2: sideways ‘black rainbows,’ a keyhole motif, and wordless pursuit
- •Aftereffects: wanting to do it again and how it reframed reality
- 47:22 – 57:29
Mushrooms, ego, and fighting fear: using psychedelics for self-inquiry
The discussion broadens to mushrooms, microdosing, and confronting fear—especially Cowboy’s anxiety before fights and fear of losing publicly. Cowboy tells a surreal Singapore haircut trip that forced him to face his identity, ego, and expectations.
- •DMT as a ‘gateway’ to mushrooms for Cowboy; learning to ‘let go’
- •Pre-fight mental spirals: fear of losing, shame, and public judgment
- •Singapore story: barber shop visuals and the looping message ‘born to win’
- •Therapeutic framing: psychedelics, depression relief, and perspective shifts
- 57:29 – 1:07:39
Why it’s still illegal: propaganda, harm, and the case for freedom
Rogan argues psychedelics remain illegal largely due to outdated propaganda rather than evidence-based harm. They discuss studies on psilocybin for addiction treatment and contrast ‘party use’ vs intentional, learning-oriented use.
- •Illegality as legacy policy: Hearst-era narratives and Nixon-era scheduling
- •Evidence emerging: psilocybin’s role in treating addiction and behavior loops
- •Microdosing culture (including elite athletes) and stigma misconceptions
- •Set/setting: intention and environment shaping outcomes
- 1:07:39 – 1:27:04
Hunting ethics and modern hypocrisy: meat-eating, vegans, and ‘nerfing’ life
A segue from psychedelics leads to hunting as another misunderstood experience. They argue many critics are disconnected from food systems, then move into a broader critique of modern comfort, participation trophies, and fragility.
- •Lanai deer overpopulation as a case study for ethical hunting
- •Hypocrisy: condemning hunters while eating factory-farmed meat
- •Where ‘non-violence’ breaks down (insects, pests, microbiome)
- •Cultural shift: participation trophies, adversity avoidance, and social media meanness
- 1:27:04 – 1:45:04
Cowboy’s near-death cave dive: panic, blackout silt, and finding the exit
Cowboy tells a detailed, harrowing cave-diving story where a partner panics and silts out the cave, destroying visibility and threatening their exit line. He explains cave-diving protocols (thirds, lines, cookies) and how he nearly ran out of time while navigating total darkness.
- •Cave diving progression and why it’s the ‘last’ and most dangerous cert
- •Rules: thirds of air, permanent lines, jump lines, direction markers
- •Partner panic causes silt-out; Cowboy loses orientation and nearly loses the exit
- •Survival decisions: calming breath, searching cracks, confronting mortality and time
- 1:45:04 – 1:48:20
Giving back: Cowboy Fight Series and building amateurs into pros
After the cave story, Cowboy shifts to a new project: an amateur promotion designed to find prospects and develop them through his ranch ecosystem. He explains a tournament format and the plan to distribute via UFC Fight Pass.
- •Concept: regional shows + four-man tournament in a featured weight class
- •Prize: winner trains/lives with Cowboy and gets guided career opportunities
- •Distribution talks: targeting UFC Fight Pass as the platform
- •Long-term goal: replicate the help he received from the Tapout era
- 1:48:20 – 1:53:10
Post-fight life ambitions: Hollywood stunts, choreography, and racing the Chili Bowl
Cowboy talks about transitions beyond fighting: acting work (including time with Denzel Washington), stunt coordination, and a new Mark Wahlberg project doing fight choreography. Then he pivots to an impulsive new challenge—dirt track racing at the Chili Bowl with minimal practice.
- •Movie experience: Equalizer 2, working with Denzel and Jay Hieron
- •New role: fight choreography involvement for a major film production
- •Chili Bowl plan: 300 entries, intense dirt track drifting, high power-to-weight cars
- •Choosing a race number/brand identity: landing on ‘11 BMF’
- 1:53:10 – 2:54:02
More ‘Cowboy’ hobbies: mounted shooting, Wild West culture, and time-travel riffing
They cap the episode’s stretch of wild tangents with mounted shooting (blanks popping balloons) and why it’s both serious and fun. The conversation then drifts into Westerns, time-travel hypotheticals, pirates, Genghis Khan, and how modern tech would rewrite history.
- •Mounted shooting rules: ammo limits, gun swaps at speed, reins vs shooting hand
- •Safety realities: blanks can still injure; training horses around gunfire
- •Love of Westerns and why that era still captivates them
- •Time travel scenarios: language barriers, tech advantages, unintended timeline consequences
