How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford professor, “Touchy Feely”)

Carole Robin spent over 20 years teaching the Stanford Graduate School of Business course Interpersonal Dynamics, affectionately known as “Touchy Feely.” After leaving Stanford, she founded a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which applies the Touchy Feely principles to help Silicon Valley executives build their leadership and interpersonal skills. Carole co-authored the popular book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, which shares key insights from her decades of teaching these courses. In our conversation, we discuss: • The benefits of building robust relationships, in life and work • The 15% rule, and how it will help you build better relationships • The power of vulnerability • Examples of how to practice vulnerability • Why mental models you build early in life hold you back later • The “three realities” and “the net” • The art of inquiry • Practical tips for avoiding defensiveness when getting feedback • The impact of long Covid on Carole’s life — Brought to you by: • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ • CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users: https://www.commandbar.com/lenny • The a16z Podcast—Featuring conversations with the founders and technologists shaping our future: https://link.chtbl.com/qLhgyi65 Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin Where to find Carole Robin: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carole-robin/ • Email: carolerobinllc@gmail.com Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Carole’s background (05:17) The importance of building robust relationships (10:20) The “Touchy Feely” course at Stanford (13:29) An example of the in-class experience (17:19) Leaders in Tech: developing interpersonal competence (21:36) Progressive disclosure and the 15% rule (24:28) Appropriate disclosure (26:52) The power of vulnerability (34:57) Admitting mistakes and sharing feelings (37:08) Understanding mental models (42:57) The “three realities” framework (53:52) The power of feedback and personal change (58:47) The art of inquiry (01:03:27) How to get better at giving feedback (01:07:47) Exercises and continued learning (01:10:49) “Advice hinders relationships” (01:16:49) Failure corner: AFOG (01:20:30) Takeaways (01:21:51) Lessons from long Covid Referenced: • How to Build Better Relationships: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/how-build-better-relationships • Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues-ebook/dp/B0894279WZ • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/ • Leaders in Tech Fellows: https://leadersintech.org/learnaboutfellows • Steve Jobs: https://www.forbes.com/profile/steve-jobs/ • Sheryl Sandberg on X: https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg • Ursula Burns: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ursula-burns/ • Application for Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/programs-and-applications • Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development and Scaffolding Theory: https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-development.html • The Best Leaders Aren’t Afraid to Be Vulnerable: https://hbr.org/2022/07/the-best-leaders-arent-afraid-of-being-vulnerable • The Surprising Benefits of Admitting Mistakes: 5 Ways to Build Intellectual Humility: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2021/12/29/the-surprising-benefits-of-admitting-mistakes-5-ways-to-build-intellectual-humility/ • How to Build Conflict Skills—The Pinch/Crunch Model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahart/2023/12/15/how-to-build-conflict-skills-the-pinchcrunch-model/ • Slides mentioned (The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines): https://www.notion.so/pen-name/Carole-Robin-on-Lenny-s-Podcast-dc7159208e4242428f4b11ebc92285eb • Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322 • Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey • Long COVID: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2 • Leadership, acceptance, and self-management: my journey with long COVID: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leadership-acceptance-self-management-my-journey-long-carole-robin/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.