5 Psychological Tricks To READ ANYONE! | Evy Poumpouras & Chris Voss

1. 0:00 – 0:29

   Intro

   1. EPEvy Poumpouras0:00

      Curiosity is wonderful. So let them tell you stuff, ask questions because you're curious, and then you'll get more information, rather than

   2. CVChris Voss0:08

      Now, I found out more about the guy sitting on a plane next to me than he's told anybody in 20 years-

   3. LHLewis Howes0:14

      Mm

   4. CVChris Voss0:14

      ... with this same kind of an exercise.

   5. SPSpeaker0:16

      If I walk into most rooms, like I had a show last night for 85 people in San Antonio, Texas. I knew every single person's name in that room, every single person's first name. How? [instrumental music]

2. 0:29 – 18:58

   How To Get The Truth Out Of Anyone

   1. LHLewis Howes0:30

      Do we all lie, all human beings, and is it okay to lie?

   2. EPEvy Poumpouras0:36

      All people lie. The research varies. Some research says some people will lie 10 times within a conversation. Um-

   3. LHLewis Howes0:43

      10 times? Like, in one sen- or-

   4. EPEvy Poumpouras0:45

      It could be-

   5. LHLewis Howes0:45

      ... in a 30-minute conversation?

   6. EPEvy Poumpouras0:46

      "Hi, how are you?" "I'm great. How are you?"

   7. LHLewis Howes0:48

      Oh.

   8. EPEvy Poumpouras0:49

      Meanwhile, I just, you know-

   9. LHLewis Howes0:50

      That's a lie

   10. EPEvy Poumpouras0:50

       ... had a fight with my significant other.

   11. LHLewis Howes0:52

       Uh-huh.

   12. EPEvy Poumpouras0:53

       So that would be a lie. Then also, lying by omission is a big thing. People think that, that I have to say the lie for it to be a lie, but I can tell you a story and leave something out.

   13. LHLewis Howes1:07

       Mm.

   14. EPEvy Poumpouras1:07

       That changes the context of the story, so now the story is not accurate. I mislead you. That is a lie. And actually, the number one way people lie is by omission, because most people don't like to lie. They're not comfortable with it. You know, it's not natural to us. It's work. It's a lot of, it's a lot of work. It's very hard. So-

   15. LHLewis Howes1:26

       'Cause you gotta remember what you said too, right?

   16. EPEvy Poumpouras1:28

       You gotta remember it. You have to stick to it, because you may have to repeat that lie again later in time.

   17. LHLewis Howes1:34

       Oh my gosh.

   18. EPEvy Poumpouras1:34

       And it really is a credibility killer. It's just not worth doing, and so it's a lot of work to do cognitively. So it is actually easier to leave something out. I don't feel as bad. And then when you ask me, Lewis, I say, "Oh, you know, I forgot to tell you that part."

   19. LHLewis Howes1:49

       Mm. And then you lose credibility.

   20. EPEvy Poumpouras1:52

       If I lie like that, I may not lose as much.

   21. LHLewis Howes1:54

       Okay. Gotcha.

   22. EPEvy Poumpouras1:55

       It's when people outright lie, and then, so you probably did some outright lies that I think are big.

   23. LHLewis Howes2:00

       Yes. "Did you do this? Yes or no." "Uh, no, I didn't do it." [laughs]

   24. EPEvy Poumpouras2:03

       [laughs] Or how about this, "No, I didn't do it."

   25. LHLewis Howes2:05

       Yeah, right.

   26. EPEvy Poumpouras2:05

       [laughs]

   27. LHLewis Howes2:06

       "Uh, no." [laughs]

   28. EPEvy Poumpouras2:07

       That's, like, one of the indicators, um, when people say, um, their body doesn't match up with, doesn't match-

   29. LHLewis Howes2:12

       Ah

   30. EPEvy Poumpouras2:12

       ... what they say. So they'll say, "No. Yes."
3. 18:58 – 43:52

   Use This Formula To Read Someone

   1. LHLewis Howes19:00

      What's the formula or process to get people to do things just 'cause they feel like it?

   2. CVChris Voss19:06

      Well, you know, it's, it's really, it's, it's gonna sound stupid.

   3. LHLewis Howes19:09

      Yeah. [laughs] Smiling.

   4. CVChris Voss19:11

      Smiling.

   5. LHLewis Howes19:11

      Being nice. Yeah.

   6. CVChris Voss19:12

      So smiling, uh, neuroscience behind a smile. If you smile at somebody, you actually hit their mirror neurons. You start a smile in their brain.

   7. LHLewis Howes19:24

      Wow.

   8. CVChris Voss19:24

      Smile is an involuntary response.

   9. LHLewis Howes19:26

      Mirror neuron, neurons you say?

   10. CVChris Voss19:28

       Mirror neurons in their brain. It's the same as if the doctor hits your knee with a little hammer, and your, your leg kicks forward. You didn't choose to have your leg kick forward. It's an involuntary response.

   11. LHLewis Howes19:38

       Hmm.

   12. CVChris Voss19:38

       So if somebody sees you, and you smile, you've instantly hit their mirror neurons. You started a chemical change. Now, they might fight it, and sometimes you gotta give them three smiles.

   13. LHLewis Howes19:47

       [laughs] Right.

   14. CVChris Voss19:48

       But by the third smile, you get them smiling too.

   15. LHLewis Howes19:51

       Yeah.

   16. CVChris Voss19:52

       So you've already started the process. And then, uh, your inner voice betrays your outer voice. When you say, "How are you?" to somebody at the Starbucks, your inner voice is saying, "I'm trying to make your day better. I, I, I, I want you to be a happier person." They're gonna feel it. If your inner voice is saying like, "How are you today? I need my Starbucks coffee, and I need to get out of here, and I hate this line, and I hate how long you guys... " If that's in your voice, they're gonna feel that. They're gonna be pouring decaf in-

   17. LHLewis Howes20:24

       Mm

   18. CVChris Voss20:24

       ... instead of, instead of the other kind.

   19. LHLewis Howes20:26

       Right.

   20. CVChris Voss20:26

       So your entire approach, the neuroscience shows us the person is picking it up-

   21. LHLewis Howes20:32

       Mm-hmm

   22. CVChris Voss20:32

       ... and responding. And so your, your body language, your tone of voice. The greatest negotiators in the world really maximize that-

   23. LHLewis Howes20:42

       Mm-hmm

   24. CVChris Voss20:42

       ... because it's an invisible skill.

   25. LHLewis Howes20:44

       Yeah. But it's in a skill you can teach, it sounds like.

   26. CVChris Voss20:47

       And learn.

   27. LHLewis Howes20:48

       And learn.

   28. CVChris Voss20:48

       You can teach it. You can learn it. You can practice it. All you gotta do is y- get your, get your repeti- get your repetitions in. Um, uh, John Foley's a Blue Angel pilot. I heard him speak about four years ago. He talked about, how long does it take to build a habit? How much training do you need? He called it grooving a, uh, putting a groove in your brain. The Blue Angels, you know, they gotta build their habits before they get up in the sky.

   29. LHLewis Howes21:12

       Yeah.

   30. CVChris Voss21:12

       Otherwise, the jets crash.
4. 43:52 – 1:14:52

   How To Persuade Anyone

   1. LHLewis Howes48:33

      Does mentalism have to do more with emotional intelligence or observing people's behavior?

   2. SPSpeaker48:40

      So it has to do with both in the same way that a hypnotist, if you say to me, "I don't want to be hypnotized. I don't want to be hypnotized. I'm not gonna be hypnotized"-

   3. LHLewis Howes48:46

      Right

   4. SPSpeaker48:46

      ... then at the end of the day, you won't be hypnotized.

   5. LHLewis Howes48:48

      Right.

   6. SPSpeaker48:48

      Does that make sense?

   7. LHLewis Howes48:49

      Yeah, yeah.

   8. SPSpeaker48:49

      The power of suggestion.

   9. LHLewis Howes48:50

      Uh-huh.

   10. SPSpeaker48:51

       So, but a hypnotist, a very talented, good one, can diffuse that person's underlying tension or why are they so nervous or what are they scared of or what's the problem? So in, in most scenarios, I try to get to the root of will this person be good to work with or not? And when I'm doing a big show, I can quickly avoid people that I just don't think-

   11. LHLewis Howes49:13

       Really

   12. SPSpeaker49:13

       ... are gonna be fun.

   13. LHLewis Howes49:14

       Right.

   14. SPSpeaker49:14

       Because some people, if let's say I walk up to you and you just had a really rough day or you got really bad news, and I don't want that. I don't ever want to bring up, my show is not ever gonna bring you bad news.

   15. LHLewis Howes49:23

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   16. SPSpeaker49:23

       It's, it's, it's a fun show. It's interactive. So I'll kind of shy away from that.

   17. LHLewis Howes49:27

       Yeah.

   18. SPSpeaker49:28

       But to answer the question, I think that it's more about observing people than the emotional intelligence, 'cause certain people I just can't read well.

   19. LHLewis Howes49:35

       Really?

   20. SPSpeaker49:35

       There's no way around it. Yeah, like, so I can do certain things with them, but we won't get to the next level with them. It's just that simple. There's no way around it. And, and then they'll come up to me in the show and be like, "Well, why didn't you do something more with me?" And I'm like, "I'm sorry. I couldn't."

   21. LHLewis Howes49:47

       Mm.

   22. SPSpeaker49:47

       And then they're like, "Oh yeah."

   23. LHLewis Howes49:48

       I couldn't read your mind. You weren't open. Yeah. [laughs]

   24. SPSpeaker49:49

       Exactly right. Exactly right.

   25. LHLewis Howes49:51

       Why don't-

   26. SPSpeaker49:51

       It was a bit more opaque than others

   27. LHLewis Howes49:52

       ... so what's the perfect person to work for, with, or who do you see, what's the type of person you see you're like, "Yes, that's gonna be a good person to work with"?

   28. SPSpeaker50:00

       It's, it, it-

   29. LHLewis Howes50:00

       What are the tell-

   30. SPSpeaker50:00

       ... runs the gamut of the extremes. So the people that are most believing and most into it are always the most fun.
5. 1:14:52 – 1:40:54

   The Steps To Being Influential

   1. SPSpeaker1:14:52

      When I tell you, uh, for example, uh, "Don't think of a pink elephant"-

   2. LHLewis Howes1:14:55

      Mm-hmm

   3. SPSpeaker1:14:56

      ... you immediately think about it, and all the viewers right now are thinking of a pink elephant.

   4. LHLewis Howes1:14:59

      Right.

   5. SPSpeaker1:14:59

      So the same thing. When you watch the number four, you can't think of three. You can't think of five. And now you know, it's like a po- poker tell.

   6. LHLewis Howes1:15:07

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker1:15:07

      When you look at it, I know it's a four, I know it's a three, I know it's a two, I know... I, during the years, I-

   8. LHLewis Howes1:15:13

      You've practiced it enough

   9. SPSpeaker1:15:13

      ... practiced. It's, it's all about... It's like, it's like playing a piano. You know, everybody can learn to play a piano, but not everybody will be Mozart.

   10. LHLewis Howes1:15:20

       Mm.

   11. SPSpeaker1:15:20

       So I mastered the whole concept of understanding how people thinks.

   12. LHLewis Howes1:15:24

       Now, if it's a, if it's a one through six, it'd be easier than one through a hundred. So is it-

   13. SPSpeaker1:15:30

       Same principle, just-

   14. LHLewis Howes1:15:31

       Really?

   15. SPSpeaker1:15:31

       Same principle, just gotta be more sensitive.

   16. LHLewis Howes1:15:34

       What?

   17. SPSpeaker1:15:34

       So for-

   18. LHLewis Howes1:15:34

       So if I had a one through a hundred dice, theoretically.

   19. SPSpeaker1:15:37

       So for example, uh, for example, uh, in my show, I have an act where I have someone hold the coin in one of the hands, and I guess which hand is the coin every time. And it makes the audience laugh because I talk about body language. But somewhere inside their mi- mind, they're saying, "Okay, it's a 50/50 chance," so you know. And then I bring 30 people on stage.

   20. LHLewis Howes1:15:54

       Mm.

   21. SPSpeaker1:15:55

       And now you have one through 60, and one of them is holding the, the coin. And now it's much more difficult, but I'm looking at them and I point to a person, and that person usually holds the coin. So it's a real... So it's the same concept. You know, before the, before we start shooting, we talked about a magician versus-

   22. LHLewis Howes1:16:14

       Mm-hmm

   23. SPSpeaker1:16:14

       ... mentalist.

   24. LHLewis Howes1:16:14

       Mentalist, yep.

   25. SPSpeaker1:16:16

       And I thought about what to tell you about that. When you watch a magician show, uh, you are amazed, you're blown away. Just like here. You're, "Oh, my God. How did it happen? How did you know it? What's going on?" But you know somewhere deep inside your mind that he didn't kill the girl, saw her in half-

   26. LHLewis Howes1:16:32

       Right, right

   27. SPSpeaker1:16:32

       ... and then brought her back, right? And you know that when she levitated, you know it's not something from, uh, quantum physics, uh, defying gravity thing. You know there's a trick. You don't know what is the trick, but there, you k- you know it's not real.

   28. LHLewis Howes1:16:46

       Right.

   29. SPSpeaker1:16:46

       You know it's an illusion. When you watch a mentalist show, there's another factor of belief, because there is... You will ask yourself, "Is it really?"

   30. LHLewis Howes1:16:57

       Mm.
6. 1:40:54 – 2:03:37

   How To Master Any Negotiation

   1. LHLewis Howes1:40:56

      So how do you deal in a negotiation with the kind of person who has to win, who has to get everything they want? They're very controlling, alpha.

   2. CVChris Voss1:41:03

      Right.

   3. LHLewis Howes1:41:03

      And it's their way or no way.

   4. CVChris Voss1:41:07

      Well, getting everything they want is actually third on their list. First of all, being in control is number one on their list, and that's emotionally satisfying.

   5. LHLewis Howes1:41:17

      Mm.

   6. CVChris Voss1:41:17

      The second thing is the alpha type, which is, uh, we refer to that as the, the assertive. The one thing that's more important to them than actually getting what they want is being respected and making sure that you know everything about what they're coming from. So... And it's a classic guy who's working for his boss and said, "You know what? My boss didn't do what I wanted him to do, but he heard me out," or, "She heard me out."

   7. LHLewis Howes1:41:45

      Mm.

   8. CVChris Voss1:41:46

      "I can live with the direction that we're going as long as I know that my boss knows my opinion." And so the, the assertive type of negotiator, it's really more important to them that they felt, felt that they, uh, conducted themselves respected- respectably, that you respected them, and that you knew what they were coming from.

   9. LHLewis Howes1:42:06

      Mm.

   10. CVChris Voss1:42:07

       And once they know those things, they'll actually soften up on what they want.

   11. LHLewis Howes1:42:10

       If they feel disrespected, they'll probably be more frustrated and angry and-

   12. CVChris Voss1:42:14

       Right

   13. LHLewis Howes1:42:14

       ... demanding.

   14. CVChris Voss1:42:15

       Right, right, right, right.

   15. LHLewis Howes1:42:16

       So you have to respect-

   16. CVChris Voss1:42:17

       'Cause when they're very demanding, what they're really saying to you sub- subtly is, "I want you to know how important this is to me."

   17. LHLewis Howes1:42:23

       Right.

   18. CVChris Voss1:42:23

       "I want you to know how important I am."

   19. LHLewis Howes1:42:26

       So how do you meet that person? Just come to them with respect or with calm or-

   20. CVChris Voss1:42:31

       Yeah, and just, and, you know, you could say, "Look, you're, you're, you're impressive. You're phenomenal."

   21. LHLewis Howes1:42:35

       You've thought this all out. This is very...

   22. CVChris Voss1:42:38

       Yeah. I mean, clearly, you know where you're coming from. You know what you want. Um, I'm lucky to be talking to you at all. [laughs]

   23. LHLewis Howes1:42:45

       Right.

   24. CVChris Voss1:42:45

       I mean, if were I to sit down with, with Donald Trump, I would, in fact, be lucky to be in the same room with him. That'd be the first thing I'd say to him. I'd say, "You're-

   25. LHLewis Howes1:42:54

       Stroke his ego

   26. CVChris Voss1:42:54

       ... you're an American icon."

   27. LHLewis Howes1:42:56

       Right.

   28. CVChris Voss1:42:56

       You know? You're, you're the symbol of American business, certainly in New York City. Yeah, you know, stro- stroking their ego is not a bad thing. One of the, w- and, uh, you know, it's a version of empathy 'cause that, that's how they see themselves.

   29. LHLewis Howes1:43:09

       Mm.

   30. CVChris Voss1:43:10

       And, you know, the, the, the emotional recognition, like e- emotional currency is not gonna solve every deal. I just don't wanna try to solve any deal with money when I could've solved it with emotional currency.

Episode duration: 2:03:38