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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

Divorce Attorney REVEALS Why 70% of Relationships DON'T LAST | Faith Jenkins

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Faith JenkinsguestLewis Howeshost
Feb 7, 20221h 15mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:50

    What Divorce Taught Faith About Character and Breakups

    1. FJ

      Why is this spite coming out of you? Why do you want to cause this person pain right now just because you're walking away from a relationship? Sometimes you have to walk away. One of the toughest things about life you have to learn is sometimes you're gonna walk away from people that you love.

    2. LH

      Mm.

    3. FJ

      You're gonna do it to protect your peace.

    4. LH

      I think you gotta have a dream.

    5. FJ

      The School of Greatness.

    6. LH

      Really? [laughs] Yeah.

    7. FJ

      Please welcome Lewis Howes.

    8. LH

      I'm curious, what has witnessing so many divorces taught you about love, relationships, and marriage?

    9. FJ

      Well, I would say, first of all, I waited until the right time-

    10. LH

      The right time

    11. FJ

      ... for me to get married. Uh, for other people, they may have perhaps thought it was a long time.

    12. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    13. FJ

      They may have perhaps thought it was too long bec- because I would get a lot of those questions about, "Why aren't you married?"

    14. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    15. FJ

      In my 20s.

    16. LH

      In your 30s.

    17. FJ

      In my 30s. [laughs]

    18. LH

      Okay.

    19. FJ

      So I got married, I was 42 years old.

    20. LH

      Mm.

    21. FJ

      So, uh, it was recently married, two years ago, so, uh, I had to, uh, deal with that. But I always said, "You know what? When it's the right time, if it's something that I really want, the timing will be perfect."

    22. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    23. FJ

      Everything comes to me in the right time, space, and sequence.

    24. LH

      Absolutely.

    25. FJ

      So, um, what has witnessing divorce taught me? Well, my parents got divorced when I was 13 years old.

    26. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    27. FJ

      And I saw the, um, early stages of, of their love growing up as a child, and I saw their decision to go their separate way. So that was my first insight into, uh, what divorce was like, and it was difficult.

    28. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    29. FJ

      And it was painful. And as a child, when you love your parents, you, you wanna see things work out. But I also knew at that age that it was the right thing for them to do at the time.

    30. LH

      Yeah.

  2. 3:50 – 7:46

    Emotional Maturity and Radical Acceptance After Breakups

    1. LH

      Absolutely. Why do you think people try to destroy or cause so much pain on their ex-partners-

    2. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    3. LH

      ... when they go through a breakup or divorce? Is it because they feel pain and so they want the other person to feel it? Have you seen cases of people that don't do that, that actually are like, "You know what? I'm sad. I'm hurt. This-

    4. FJ

      Mm

    5. LH

      ... this is not fun. This is, you know, maybe horrible to, to, to lose this relationship and go through this experience, but I'm gonna leave this in a loving way."

    6. FJ

      Yes. Yes, I have. I've seen both sides of it.

    7. LH

      What's the, what's the difference between those two types of people, the loving ending and the, the anger ending? Why, what, what are they, how do they develop that inside of them under all the stress and pain?

    8. FJ

      It's an emotional maturity-

    9. LH

      Yeah

    10. FJ

      ... that you, that you have to have.

    11. LH

      Mm.

    12. FJ

      And, uh, some people have it. They've developed it over time. I will tell you, when I started going through breakups at 21 and 22 years old, [laughs] I did some crazy things.

    13. LH

      You did? [laughs]

    14. FJ

      You know, I, I remember I, I talked about this in the book. I went to my boyfriend's apartment in Manhattan, and I became CSI-

    15. LH

      Really?

    16. FJ

      ... in that moment-

    17. LH

      Investigating

    18. FJ

      ... and looked through every... I was investigating because I knew something was up. And I-

    19. LH

      Checking drawers and under beds and looking in the trash and looking for everything.

    20. FJ

      I was an attorney, and I watched enough Law & Order to know-

    21. LH

      [laughs]

    22. FJ

      ... how these things work.

    23. LH

      Is there a hair somewhere? [laughs] Is there something that... What?

    24. FJ

      So, you know, I had some moments that I wasn't proud of.

    25. LH

      [laughs]

    26. FJ

      I wasn't mature.

    27. LH

      You had the bl- the black light. You're looking on the... [laughs]

    28. FJ

      [laughs] Had my own lab set up in the back. I'm gonna-

    29. LH

      Wow

    30. FJ

      ... but, um, but-

  3. 7:46 – 13:34

    Knowing Yourself, Red Flags, and Preparing While Single

    1. LH

      Was there a point when you started to learn and see red flags clearer and realize, "Okay, like, this isn't gonna work, so I'm gonna remove myself from the situation-"

    2. FJ

      Mm. Mm.

    3. LH

      "... as opposed to maybe in your 20s where you're like, "Well, I'm gonna have one eye open and just, like, keep working to make it work-"

    4. FJ

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... even though these red flags are happening. Was there a moment where this kind of like, "All right. I see the red flags so clear now."

    6. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    7. LH

      "And I'm not gonna keep investing time and energy so hopefully it changes."

    8. FJ

      When I got to know myself better.

    9. LH

      Hmm.

    10. FJ

      Because I got to know... When I got to know me better, I got to know what I wanted-

    11. LH

      Yes

    12. FJ

      ... and what I didn't want, and what I was willing to compromise on and what I wasn't r- willing to compromise on. Because before, I didn't know the flags were red.

    13. LH

      Hmm. What were they?

    14. FJ

      I just thought, "This is life."

    15. LH

      Ah.

    16. FJ

      So I'm seeing, I'm seeing these things happen, um, or the flag will be red, but I would wanna know, well, how red is the red flag?

    17. LH

      Yeah.

    18. FJ

      I wanna-

    19. LH

      Can I, can I manage the red flag? Yeah.

    20. FJ

      Can, can I manage it?

    21. LH

      Mm.

    22. FJ

      Can I deal with it? But as I got older and more mature and I started having these relationships, I started realizing, and that's what, that's why it's so important to get to know yourself in your 20s. I say that's the... You know, when you're in your 20s, what a great time to get to know you and who you are and what you want-

    23. LH

      Mm

    24. FJ

      ... and what you like and, and what you dislike. Because then, when you can see with clearer eyes, you have a better vision for yourself and what your li- in your life and what will better fit you in your life.

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    26. FJ

      So just-

    27. LH

      [clears throat]

    28. FJ

      ... growing and going through those experiences, I started accepting and realizing the things that would and would not work for me. And when I came across people who, when I realized, "Okay. This is not something that I want," just being able to pivot.

    29. LH

      Right.

    30. FJ

      And say, "You know what? That's not what I want. I need to go in another direction."

  4. 13:34 – 16:29

    Overcoming Cynicism and Choosing Love as a Decision

    1. LH

      What was the biggest challenge you had to overcome? Was it conflict resolution? Was it boundaries? Was it not abandoning yourself? Was it communication skills? What was the-

    2. FJ

      Fear.

    3. LH

      Fear of what?

    4. FJ

      Fear of failure.

    5. LH

      Like a relationship not working?

    6. FJ

      Relationship not working. When you have been through, as you date and you go through relationships, and you've been through betrayal and-

    7. LH

      Mm

    8. FJ

      ... heartbreak-

    9. LH

      Mm

    10. FJ

      ... and hurt-

    11. LH

      Mm

    12. FJ

      ... and pain, you bec- you can become pretty cynical-

    13. LH

      Yes

    14. FJ

      ... about love.

    15. LH

      Mm.

    16. FJ

      And if you're not careful, that cynicism can really be a hindrance for you, because you cannot be a cynic about love and expect to attract it at the same time.

    17. LH

      Ooh, snap. That's true.

    18. FJ

      Yeah.

    19. LH

      So how did you keep your heart open after going through breakups and maybe after, you know, challenging things happening in relationships where that hurt you?

    20. FJ

      Mm.

    21. LH

      How did you stay open to love?

    22. FJ

      I had to reframe my thoughts and ideas and my perspective-

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm

    24. FJ

      ... about the past.

    25. LH

      What did you think about them then?

    26. FJ

      I had to learn to allow the past to stay in the past. I didn't want someone to come into my life and I make them pay for something they had nothing to do with-

    27. LH

      Yeah, that's tough

    28. FJ

      ... in my past.

    29. LH

      Yeah, that's tough.

    30. FJ

      And when I got married, who did I want my husband to meet? This bitter, broken down woman who had been through the wringer in all these years and all these relationships, or did I want him to meet someone who ... 'Cause we're all, we're always in the process of healing.

  5. 16:29 – 22:15

    Marriage, Living Together, and the Pandemic

    1. LH

      Did you have fears around getting married?

    2. FJ

      I had a fear of the unknown.

    3. LH

      Yeah.

    4. FJ

      What is marriage really like? You know, I see other people who are married, some of them happy, some of them not. Obviously, I see a lot of people getting divorced. So what is it about marriage? What makes it work? Do I know what makes it work? Do I have what it takes to make it work? So it was, it was-

    5. LH

      Wow

    6. FJ

      ... the fear of the unknown, because I hadn't done it before. Marriage by nature changes you. It's the closest relationship you'll ever have.

    7. LH

      Yeah.

    8. FJ

      It's very different from the parent-child relationship, every other relationship.

    9. LH

      Friends, everything, yeah.

    10. FJ

      I wondered how it would change me.

    11. LH

      From being in a relationship and dating-

    12. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    13. LH

      ... to then being married-

    14. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    15. LH

      ... what have been the biggest differences and changes?

    16. FJ

      Mm-hmm. Allowing someone to see me at my most vulnerable state.

    17. LH

      Ooh. Did you allow that during the dating process?

    18. FJ

      I allowed it to a certain extent.

    19. LH

      [laughs]

    20. FJ

      But I didn't, I didn't live with my husband-

    21. LH

      Ah

    22. FJ

      ... before we got married.

    23. LH

      Interesting.

    24. FJ

      That was a choice that we made.

    25. LH

      Really?

    26. FJ

      We did not wanna live together. And so when we got married and we moved in together, I had not lived with anyone since I was in college.

    27. LH

      Wow.

    28. FJ

      For 20 years.

    29. LH

      Wow.

    30. FJ

      So again, it's that adjustment in life, just sharing my space with another human being every day-

  6. 22:15 – 25:17

    Pressure to Marry and Not Treating Singlehood as a Rest Stop

    1. FJ

      It's been, it's been two years of just this amazing time in my life because I used to get asked a lot why I was still single for so long, and I started to feel pressure from people. I never put the pressure on myself, and I know a lot of people perhaps do. But if you're not careful when you're single and people are asking you, "Well, I don't understand. Why aren't you married?" or, "What's going on?" you can start to internalize it and feel that there's something wrong with you or that there, there's something off within you. And it can almost be something that you become embarrassed by because people are asking you as if you've missed some mark-

    2. LH

      Mm

    3. FJ

      ... in your life, some milestone that you, um, should have achieved by now. Not asking me if it was a desire of mine, by the way-

    4. LH

      Right

    5. FJ

      ... if I wanted to.

    6. LH

      Yeah.

    7. FJ

      But just asking me why wasn't I. And, um-

    8. LH

      Why do you think people care so much about other people being in a relationship or being single?

    9. FJ

      Well, the question, I think, speaks more to the, who they are than it ever did to who I was because I was okay.

    10. LH

      Mm.

    11. FJ

      You know, I, there were lessons that I had to learn to get to the place where I could go into a successful marriage. I needed to learn those lessons. There are almost eight billion people on this planet. We can't all be doing the same things at the same time, and we're not supposed to be.

    12. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    13. FJ

      We're all supposed to be living our individual life paths and our individual life journeys. There are some people who don't think that. They think you need to be married by a certain age, you need to have children by a certain age, or you're not living your, the, the right path.

    14. LH

      Yeah.

    15. FJ

      It's just not true.

    16. LH

      Right.

    17. FJ

      This is not a race. Why is it not a race? Because we're not all running in the same direction. So I learned very early on, and I think living in New York actually helped with that because I was around so many other young professionals-

    18. LH

      Yeah

    19. FJ

      ... who were, you know, at the top of their games and their careers.

    20. LH

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    21. FJ

      And we were, you know, Saturday night we're here, Wednesday night we're at a show, and the live music and everything, and just embracing our, our full lives and-

    22. LH

      Yeah

    23. FJ

      ... accepting that being single was not a rest stop for me. Until I met my husband and really got to live. Well, if I had done that, I wouldn't have lived until I was 42 years old.

    24. LH

      Right.

    25. FJ

      So what would I have done with all those years in my 20s and 30s? So it wasn't a rest stop, and I embraced that, that time of, and just did so many... I traveled acro- all around the world by myself, solo. Went to all the restaurants that I wanted to go to watching Sex and the City. Sometimes I would go by myself.

    26. LH

      [laughs]

    27. FJ

      You know, I had this vibrant group of friends. I was not waiting to live my life, and I, I think that people, they project their own view of what they l- think life should be-

    28. LH

      Mm-hmm

    29. FJ

      ... onto you.

    30. LH

      Mm-hmm.

  7. 25:17 – 31:46

    Subtle Red Flags and Compatibility

    1. LH

      What about the, you know, a lot of people talk about the, the big red flags. Like, okay, he's, he or she is cheating, lying, um, out of integrity, uh, whatever. In another relationship on the side.

    2. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LH

      Like there's these big red flags. What about the subtle red flags that you, maybe you saw over time-

    4. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    5. LH

      ... but you didn't take action on, and you realized, "Oh, that was actually a much bigger flag than..." But it was, it was subtle.

    6. FJ

      Mm.

    7. LH

      Like, "I let it kind of slip." What are those subtle red flags that people should-

    8. FJ

      Yeah

    9. LH

      ... be looking out for?

    10. FJ

      If you tell me you're vegan-

    11. LH

      [laughs] And you eat meat

    12. FJ

      ... and I see on Snapchat-

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. FJ

      ... you with some wings-

    15. LH

      Right

    16. FJ

      ... you may think that's a small lie, right?

    17. LH

      Interesting.

    18. FJ

      But what does it say about that person? It's saying that for some reason they feel that they need to, they can't be their true selves-

    19. LH

      Mm

    20. FJ

      ... with you.

    21. LH

      Interesting.

    22. FJ

      They're trying to project some- someone who they think may impress you, and it's not really who they are.

    23. LH

      Oh, yeah.

    24. FJ

      So when you see those subtle things that you don't understand, well, why didn't this person just be true and honest with me about this, this was a small thing, how do you think they're gonna handle the big things?

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    26. FJ

      So I actually look at those little things. What kind of digital footprint are people leaving online-

    27. LH

      Yeah

    28. FJ

      ... on their social media? What do they think is funny? I remember once-

    29. LH

      Mm. Mm-hmm

    30. FJ

      ... um, someone wanted to set me up on a blind date with an actor-

  8. 31:46 – 36:05

    Main Causes of Divorce and Love Languages

    1. LH

      What would you say are the main causes of divorce then? Is it cheating? Is it disrespect? Is it a lack of growth? Is it foul play-

    2. FJ

      Mm

    3. LH

      ... emotional abuse? What, what are the main causes you see?

    4. FJ

      People not being committed to the same commitment.

    5. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    6. FJ

      And that is the, um, the growth, the love, the respect, finding out how your partner wants to be loved, because everybody wants to be loved in a different way, and it may change over time. So you're constantly evolving, and a part of your job as a good partner is to find out, how does this person wanna be loved?

    7. LH

      Mm.

    8. FJ

      If you stop doing all of those things, it's like if you're, if you maintain and you take care of your yard, what are the things you do to take care of your yard? You have to mow the lawn-

    9. LH

      Mm-hmm, fertilize it, yeah

    10. FJ

      ... take care of the grass, fertilize it, pull out the weeds, all of those things to keep the yard looking great, to keep it growing. There are gonna be seasons.

    11. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    12. FJ

      There are gonna be seasons. It may be dry one season. It may, it may be a rainy season. You're gonna go through the storms. But just like in life, the, the seasons are gonna change, but what are you doing to maintain-

    13. LH

      Right

    14. FJ

      ... throughout all of those things? Being committed to doing the work to maintain the relationship throughout the seasons is what speaks to success, and I see the opposite end of that.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. FJ

      Because at no point can you just think that being on autopilot is what-

    17. LH

      Is gonna make it last, yeah

    18. FJ

      ... is gonna keep moving forward.

    19. LH

      Right. There's a book obviously called The Lo- uh, I think it's The Five Love Languages.

    20. FJ

      Yes. I love that book.

    21. LH

      And, um, I think it's such a powerful place to even just have a conversation with a partner and when you're dating, and to take the love language test to see, does this person ... Do I like giving love in the way this person likes receiving love?

    22. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    23. LH

      I did this test with my... My girlfriend and I did it at the same time. I wish I would have done this in previous relationships. This isn't the end-all be-all.

    24. FJ

      Mm.

    25. LH

      This isn't like if you have this all in a perfect alignment, your relationship's gonna work out. But I think it's a great indicator of minimizing stress when you learn these things. And I realize that we have the exact same order of how we like to receive love based on the test we took.

    26. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    27. LH

      So we both like receiving love the same way, which means we both like giving love in the same way.

    28. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    29. LH

      Whereas in previous relationships, I didn't ask them, "How do you really like to receive love?" And they didn't ask me. You know, we both didn't really do the test and, and, and go through that, that, that, um, process.

    30. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

  9. 36:05 – 39:57

    Pre-Engagement Counseling and Due Diligence

    1. LH

      well?

    2. FJ

      Well, I thought if I get engaged, and then I go to premarital counseling, I've already made the decision to get married.

    3. LH

      Yes.

    4. FJ

      So I wanted to know, because remember, you're talking about, I talked about the fear of the unknown. So-

    5. LH

      You wanna know [laughs]

    6. FJ

      ... I wanted to minimize-

    7. LH

      Yes

    8. FJ

      ... the unknowns.

    9. LH

      Yes.

    10. FJ

      [laughs] So I thought, I, I have all these questions and I think I'm asking the right questions, but I wanna know, is there something that I'm not asking? Is there another area that we need to explore? Is there something else we need to talk about? Before we got engaged, because we were talking about, at that point, getting married. You know, so often when people get engaged and they announce it, and they share with the world, and the invitations are going out. And then, oh, wait, wait, we need to do our premarital counseling. A- you may find out something that you don't like, and are you gonna-

    11. LH

      Uh-oh. Whoopsie.

    12. FJ

      Right

    13. LH

      Too late.

    14. FJ

      What are you gonna do?

    15. LH

      A lot of people feel the pressure. I've heard so many stories-

    16. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    17. LH

      ... of people who've gotten divorced, I'm, I'm sure you've heard this too, where the woman or the man said, "I knew on my wedding day this wasn't the right fit."

    18. FJ

      Yeah. They knew.

    19. LH

      It wasn't the right fit.

    20. FJ

      They knew.

    21. LH

      Have you heard that before?

    22. FJ

      Yes. They knew.

    23. LH

      And they still go through with it.

    24. FJ

      They still go through with it.

    25. LH

      I'm like, why do you put yourself through this? And then-

    26. FJ

      They don't wanna be embarrassed

    27. LH

      ... but then two to five years later-

    28. FJ

      Yeah

    29. LH

      ... you went through just pain-

    30. FJ

      Mm-hmm

  10. 39:57 – 45:47

    Three Key Conversations Before Engagement

    1. LH

      what were the three conversations or questions that were the most challenging for you to have the courage to talk about or just navigate? What were the three most uncomfortable conversations in pre-engagement counseling?

    2. FJ

      How have you healed from your past?

    3. LH

      Gosh, healing is so key. It's so key. Okay.

    4. FJ

      'Cause we both had past relationships.

    5. LH

      Yes.

    6. FJ

      They didn't work out for one reason or another, and I think we both wanted to know, uh, if there were going to be triggers-

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm

    8. FJ

      ... that would bring out something from the past in our current relationship. There, there's always gonna be residue.

    9. LH

      Right.

    10. FJ

      We're human.

    11. LH

      Right.

    12. FJ

      And we're bringing our, our ex- life experience with us. Uh, but there is a difference in making somebody pay [laughs] who had nothing to do-

    13. LH

      For your, for, for your past pain, yeah

    14. FJ

      ... with the past. And so exploring that was really important.

    15. LH

      Okay. How have you healed from your past? And like my therapist says, "Healing is a journey. It's not a one-time event."

    16. FJ

      100%.

    17. LH

      So you've got to, uh, you've gotta realize, like, okay, you might have moments, uh, you might have a moment of a, of a realization where you start to heal-

    18. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    19. LH

      ... but it's a continual journey until you've really kinda let it go.

    20. FJ

      Yep.

    21. LH

      And so how have you healed-

    22. FJ

      An important journey

    23. LH

      ... from your, from... Yeah. And my friend Stefan Speaks says, like, step one before getting in any relationship is to heal.

    24. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    25. LH

      You know, or be on a healing journey.

    26. FJ

      Yeah.

    27. LH

      'Cause otherwise you're bringing that into the new relationship.

    28. FJ

      And it is a journey. I don't think it's realistic to say, you know, one day, "Wait, I've identified where I've been hurt before, and now today's the day. I'm just, I'm healed. It's over. It's done."

    29. LH

      [laughs] It takes time.

    30. FJ

      It takes time.

  11. 45:47 – 54:53

    Staying Hopeful, Rejection, and Letting Go Before Meeting Her Husband

    1. LH

      While you watched all these divorces happen and these stressful times, and you, you grew up with parents going through divorce, then you became, you know, a lawyer and judge of divorce, did it worry you by seeing all this constantly?

    2. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LH

      Did it make you fearful of marriage and say like, "Is there even hope?" Like, are people even happy in long-term marriages?

    4. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    5. LH

      Or did it give you an education on here's all the things that they all did, you know, that they could've eliminated this pain if they would've done these steps, and it gave you hope about being married for the future?

    6. FJ

      I think that I observed a lot.

    7. LH

      [laughs]

    8. FJ

      And, and, and I, I took a lot of things in. And I think that just, you know, we've all had people who we thought were in great relationships, and then for one reason or another they don't work out.

    9. LH

      Right.

    10. FJ

      And you think, and it shakes you.

    11. LH

      And you're like, "If they didn't make it work, how am I gonna make it work?"

    12. FJ

      Right. And it shakes you and, and so again, it, it builds on that fear. I s- I had to stop this, this notion of, you know, I'm gonna protect myself by not putting myself out there, because then I won't get hurt again.

    13. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    14. FJ

      That fear wasn't really protecting me. What it was really doing was poisoning my perspective. And I knew that I was not going to be able to step into, um, my, the greatest relationship that I really wanted to have with that poisonous perspective. Everything is an opportunity to learn.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. FJ

      And everything is an opportunity to grow. So whether it was, you know, watching my parents and what they did, a lot of times you watch certain things and you s- you learn what not to do. And-

    17. LH

      Mm-hmm

    18. FJ

      ... just taking all of those experiences. And I was jaded at some point. I did go through a period where I was cynical, but I had to reframe and reshape my own perspective-

    19. LH

      Yes

    20. FJ

      ... and decide how I wanted to live my life, and what, what perspective I really wanted to have. And I just made a decision that I was going to go forward and believe that I could have the type of love in my life that I wanted.

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    22. FJ

      Because if I didn't believe it, it wasn't gonna happen.

    23. LH

      Right.

    24. FJ

      So despite seeing all of these other things around me, you know, I looked at other people who had been successful. I looked at people who had good experiences. I listened to things that would build up my faith, and I learned-

    25. LH

      Mm

    26. FJ

      ... how to navigate When I dealt with rejection or betrayal or hurt or pain, six months before I met my husband, I went through a breakup.

    27. LH

      Right.

    28. FJ

      And I was... I remember that day, crying, you know, upset. Again, my feelings are hurt. I'm human. I'm having that human moment. But I also remember that day deciding, "Okay, you know what to do. You've been through this-

    29. LH

      [laughs] Yeah, you're a pro at going through this

    30. FJ

      ... a bunch of times. [laughs] And you've learned." But the key was I learned every time it happened.

  12. 54:53 – 1:01:48

    Why People Settle, Patterns, and High-Value Partners

    1. LH

      why do so many people seem to settle?

    2. FJ

      Mm.

    3. LH

      And why don't they end the relationship or wait until the relationship is what they want? Why do you think so many people settle?

    4. FJ

      Could be loneliness, um, fear.

    5. LH

      Mm.

    6. FJ

      Past experiences-

    7. LH

      Yeah

    8. FJ

      ... that, uh, have made them question their self-worth. You know, in the end, when you're making a choice, and if you do wanna get married, because some people don't, and that's totally their choice and their life path.

    9. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    10. FJ

      But if you do want to, I want you to think about the commitment and the decision that you're making. The person you're gonna have 10,000 meals with. The person you're going to travel, perhaps all over the world with. The person who will be the greatest influence on your children-

    11. LH

      Mm

    12. FJ

      ... should you choose to have them.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. FJ

      This is the kind of choice you're making. You've gotta get past some of these hangups that we've developed just going through life so you can bring a healthy you into the equation and see with clear eyes.

    15. LH

      Mm.

    16. FJ

      And know that this is not a decision. You can just pick a pair of shoes. You can, you can pick a restaurant to go to. You can just pick a dress. You cannot just pick a spouse.

    17. LH

      Mm.

    18. FJ

      You cannot just pick a partner. That decision is too important for you to take it lightly.

    19. LH

      Yeah. When you put it like that, 10,000 meals.

    20. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    21. LH

      You know, I'm gonna have 10,000 meals with this person, whether it's 10,000 or 5,000-

    22. FJ

      Mm

    23. LH

      ... whatever the number is, but you're gonna have thousands of meals with someone.

    24. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    25. LH

      That's a good way to reflect and say, "Am I enjoying the meals I'm having with them right now in the last six months or two years we've been dating?" Whatever it is. "Am I enjoying these meals? Because I'm gonna spend thousands more."

    26. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    27. LH

      And so if you're not, that could be a good indicator to say, "Okay, well, w- how does the relationship need to shift?"

    28. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    29. LH

      And see if we can get on a different track, or maybe it's not the right relationship. But I think having that perspective is powerful.

    30. FJ

      Well, what you said very early on in our interview, you heard a TED Talk.

  13. 1:01:48 – 1:07:15

    Is Marriage Hard Work? Teamwork and Handling Conflict

    1. LH

      I hear sometimes people say, like, "Marriage and relationships are hard work."

    2. FJ

      Mm.

    3. LH

      And part of me doesn't like when they say that.

    4. FJ

      I know, I know.

    5. LH

      Uh-

    6. FJ

      I used to feel... Yeah.

    7. LH

      I'm like, then why get in something-

    8. FJ

      Why is it so hard?

    9. LH

      Yeah. Why should it be so hard? I think it takes conscious courage-

    10. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    11. LH

      ... to speak up when you need to speak up, to have those challenging conversations, which I think a lot of people don't have because they're maybe scary or you're unsure of what's gonna, the other person's gonna say. Will they accept you? Will they judge you? Whatever it is. I think it takes, you know, humility, all these different things.

    12. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. LH

      But should it be a grind?

    14. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    15. LH

      You know? I don- I don't know. I don't think it should be.

    16. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    17. LH

      And I don't like when people say re- relationships or marriage is hard work.

    18. FJ

      Mm.

    19. LH

      I think it's, can we reframe that-

    20. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    21. LH

      ... so it doesn't need to feel hard.

    22. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    23. LH

      It's gonna take presence and patience and time and all these things, and attention, but does it need to be hard work all the time?

    24. FJ

      No.

    25. LH

      I, I don't know. I don't like that, but what's your perspective on that?

    26. FJ

      I used to hear people say that as well before I got married, and it also made me very, uh, self-conscious of the unknown.

    27. LH

      Yeah.

    28. FJ

      Because why? What people, people would say that and then they, they, they wouldn't explain the reasons why. I think that more than anything, the work is learning to love the new version of the person that you've partnered with as time goes on.

    29. LH

      Mm-hmm. Love and accept them. Yeah.

    30. FJ

      Love and accept them because as time goes on, you are going to see change.

  14. 1:07:15 – 1:15:25

    Why Faith Wrote the Book and the Closing Questions

    1. LH

      I love this. This has been really powerful. You've got an amazing book, Sis, Don't Settle: How to Stay Smart in the Matters of the Heart. I think it's really challenging to let your head make the decisions for your heart.

    2. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LH

      But you need your head-

    4. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    5. LH

      ... to make sure that you're not allowing your heart to miss out on the red flags or signs-

    6. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    7. LH

      ... that might be, um, your heart may not be looking for.

    8. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    9. LH

      So you kinda need both to be connected to really make sure you're in alignment, you're using your emotions, and also seeing the facts and, and the data, and you're using all of it-

    10. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    11. LH

      ... to make a conscious decision about entering a relationship and then taking it to the next level.

    12. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. LH

      You've got so many great lessons and stories in here. You've got a lot of your own exper- personal experience, obviously-

    14. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    15. LH

      ... from, I wouldn't call them failures, they're just lessons. They were relationships that weren't in alignment to where you wanna be.

    16. FJ

      Mm-hmm.

    17. LH

      There's nothing wrong with that. We've all had those. You had a lot of those lessons. And, um, also being in divorce court and watching all of these people go through-

    18. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    19. LH

      ... challenges and heartaches and the pains. So you have so many different lessons on how to make sure we hopefully eliminate that-

    20. FJ

      Mm-hmm

    21. LH

      ... and don't have to experience those things in relationships. So I'm very excited about the book, Sis, Don't Settle: How to Stay Smart in the Matters of the Heart. Faith Jenkins, I've got a couple final questions for you.

    22. FJ

      Can I tell you why I wrote this book?

    23. LH

      Yeah, go ahead.

    24. FJ

      I did not have these huge standards of love-

    25. LH

      Mm

    26. FJ

      ... in my life growing up, and didn't really know what a true, loving, healthy relationship looked like.

    27. LH

      Yeah.

    28. FJ

      So-

    29. LH

      You didn't have a model. You didn't have a good model, yeah

    30. FJ

      ... didn't have the model and, um-

Episode duration: 1:15:25

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