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Lewis HowesHow To REWIRE Your Mind To Stop Stressing & Handle Anything | Dr. Tara Narula
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EVERY SPOKEN WORD
80 min read · 16,368 words- 0:00 – 3:29
The Epidemic of Chronic Stress
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Stress is really our biggest health threat in this country, and one that we just have not addressed enough. Our stress response was designed to help us survive. If you're out in the wild and something's chasing you, you turn it on. The problem is that in our lives, people are constantly turning on the stress response chronically. Literally imagine people walking around with the stress response turned on in the dialed 10 position every day over and over again, and that is where we see it become really, really damaging.
- LHLewis Howes
Board-certified cardiologist, chief medical correspondent for ABC News, and author of The Healing Power of Resilience, Dr. Tara Narula.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
The original father of stress research said there are, like, three phases when someone is under stress. The first was an alarm phase, "Oh my gosh, what's happening?"
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
The second is a state of sort of pushing against it or resisting the stress, and the last is exhaustion. You literally burn out because you just cannot fight anymore, and that's the part where we see people get chronically sick from chronic stress.
- LHLewis Howes
Have you seen any cases where people have really stepped into belief in God, and then you've seen incredible healings because they believed so much in the power of God?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I'm so glad you asked that because I do feel like this is another area that we don't talk about a lot in medicine. Um...
- LHLewis Howes
Of all the people that come into your office, all your patients, what is the number one reason they all come into your office and they all have a challenge or a problem they're trying to overcome? What is that?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Well, people obviously come to my office because I'm a cardiologist. They're concerned with their risk of cardiovascular disease, blood pressure, cholesterol. Maybe they've had a heart attack or a stroke-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... or been diagnosed with heart failure. But usually, that's actually not what's top of mind for them, and that's what was really eye-opening for me is that practicing year after year, day after day, when I would open the door and walk in and say, "How are you?" which is always my first question to every patient, the answer I would get almost universally was, "I am stressed. I am depressed. I am anxious. I'm just overwhelmed by everything that's happening in my life." So-
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... here you have a cardiologist, but my office space was being filled with people who weren't talking about what their blood pressure numbers were at home or what their cholesterol numbers were or if they even had chest pain. They were telling me about how they were feeling up here-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and what was happening to them mentally and socially and in terms of stress, the amount that people are carrying on a daily basis, and it's overwhelming.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And for many people, just having that space to unload and just say, "I'm not doing okay," many of them would cry-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... or kind of... To have a safe space where they can be vulnerable and talk about things that they don't talk about with anyone is probably one of the most meaningful things for me as, as a doctor, to know that I'm able to provide that. And just being able to listen-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... just being a listener for people-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... um, there was so much value there, and I saw it. I saw it when people would cry and say, "Thank you so much for letting me tell you this and for listening."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
A thank you for that, not for, "Thanks for getting my blood pressure less than 130 over 80-"
- LHLewis Howes
Yes
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... "or, you know, for sending me for that scan." And so it just became so apparent to me in my cardiology practice that we were really missing the boat in terms of what-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... people really need, which is a medical community and a practice that focuses on people's mental and psychological wellbeing.
- LHLewis Howes
Gosh, that's so interesting.
- 3:29 – 7:34
How Stress Causes Physical Pain
- LHLewis Howes
As a cardiologist then, when you see people come into your office, do you feel like it is the disease or the pain that is causing them stress and anxiety or stress and anxiety that is causing them heart pain, chest pain, or physical disease?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I think it's definitely both. So certainly there are people who have had something really bad happen to them and they aren't feeling well and that causes them stress. On the other hand, there are, there is stressful situations in their lives that may be giving them chest pain or difficulty in the physical aspect. And so it really is this bridge, um, and I think that's what's really important for people to recognize is so often-
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... we say there is a mind-body connection. We toss it out there, but we haven't done a great-
- LHLewis Howes
Right
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... job explaining to people how intricately tied what happens up here is to here-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and what your body... how intricately tied your body is to your mental wellbeing. It's like this circle, this cycle, and you have to fix both. You have to fix the mental wellbeing in order to address the physical. So I can't have patients buy in to taking their medications or even going for a test if they're suffering and they don't even wanna leave the house because they're depressed or they're dealing with financial issues or their son has a drug addiction or their husband is ill. They can't take care of their own needs because they're drowning under the weight of everything else that's happening in our, in their life, and we are just not built-
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... right now as a medical institution to tailor our care to mental wellbeing.
- LHLewis Howes
Have you seen patients come into your office who have high blood pressure or high levels of anxiety and stress in the beginning, then talk to you and kind of unload and maybe cry or just feel like they have a safe place to be seen, heard, and valued? And do you see their blood pressure come down just from, like, a 30 to 60-minute conversation?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
You definitely can. I mean, we usually take the blood pressure more than once anyway-
- LHLewis Howes
Right
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... for that reason. People come in and they're definitely very nervous initially, and so their blood pressure might be really high, and we always take it again. But I think the biggest thing for me is, number one, providing a space for people to open up and talk about.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Number two is validating and normalizing that it's okay to not be okay. It's amazing the response that people will give me in just saying, "Thank you for telling me it's okay that I don't feel great." And then the third is I really focus on telling people to seek therapy. So here you have a cardiologist who's pushing therapy with so many of my patients, and again, many of them say, "Wow, I didn't think that you would be telling me to see a therapist." Um, and that's really where that piece is that's so important, that in order for me-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... to address their heart health and their cardiovascular wellbeing, w- I have to get them to buy into addressing their mental wellbeing.
- LHLewis Howes
That's interesting.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And so often I will tell them, "You don't need to see a therapist because you have a diagnosis of depression or anxiety. You can just see a therapist to have a place to go once a week or once a month to just talk-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... to just download." There's so much-
- LHLewis Howes
Wow
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... relaxation and dialing down of the stress response that comes from just communicating and verbalizing how you're feeling. So that alone, having someone in your corner who's non-judgmental, can do wonders for just helping you decompress-
- LHLewis Howes
Wow
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and take the stress level down.
- LHLewis Howes
As a cardiologist, are you able to prescribe therapy?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I-
- LHLewis Howes
Like, can you write a script and say-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I-
- 7:34 – 16:42
Main Causes of Heart Attacks
- LHLewis Howes
What are the main causes of a heart attack or a stroke?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So there are many risk factors, um, but typically for cardiovascular disease, we kind of dial it down to maybe eight or nine different things that range from your age to your family history, which is really important to know, to whether you have high blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, smoking, your weight, exercise, sleep, and then stress and mental health are-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... a big one. So in all of my patient encounters, I ask, "What is your stress level? Do you have any diagnosis of depression, anxiety, PTSD?" Um, because it's important to recognize that.
- LHLewis Howes
Have you ever seen a patient come in who had, like, great-looking health? They were super healthy. They had a six-pack. They were shredded, or they were-- they looked very healthy physically, but they still had a heart attack or a stroke because of stress and their emotional state?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So for example, there is something called a stress-induced heart attack.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
A real entity in cardiology that not many people know about.
- LHLewis Howes
And you can be super healthy physically.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes. Your arteries actually are relatively healthy, but you release this massive outflow of hormones like epinephrine and adrenaline and cortisol, and all of this hormonal surge stuns the heart. And so we call it takotsubo cardiomyopathy. Takotsubo is a Japanese octopus trap. So when you look at the heart in these situations of stress-induced heart attack, it actually has this balloon appearance to it like this Japanese octopus trap, where only the bottom or the base of the heart is pumping. The rest of the whole kind of, we call the apex or the tip of the heart, is stunned and really just dilated and enlarged and not working very well.
- LHLewis Howes
A block? It's just not pushing-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Only... Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... blood through?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It's sort of like a dilated muscular part, the out part, outer part of the heart that's not really contracting. It's not contracting well. Only the base of the heart's contracting. So a lot of people can develop heart failure and arrhythmia. Some people can die from this stress-induced heart attack. Most people will recover, and interestingly, we see it predominantly in older women. So again, this is a phenomenon where somehow women seem more vulnerable to this stress, and it doesn't have to be a negative stress. We see this sometimes even with people [laughs] who win the lottery or something that's really positive.
- LHLewis Howes
Oh, wow. Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It's that same massive-
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... surge of those hormones, and that's why it's so important for people to understand these aren't just concepts we say, "Oh, stress is bad." Like, literally stress can cause a heart attack. Um, and so this entity of stress-induced heart attack is one where the actual arteries to the heart look relatively healthy. But then there are people who have stress-induced heart attacks who have pla- plaque or blockage in their arteries, and the stress itself causes that plaque to rupture.
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And that can lead to a heart attack or a stroke or an arrhythmia or sudden death. So stress is really, in my opinion, our biggest health threat in this country and one that we just have not addressed enough.
- LHLewis Howes
It kinda sounds like if you have, you know, seven or eight of these other conditions that kind of build up in your body or in your heart, that it sounds like if you add stress to it, it could be the thing that finally, like, I guess, breaks the camel's back, I guess.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Absolutely.
- LHLewis Howes
Like, that is a thing that it's hard to come back from if you pile that on top of anything else as well.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes, or even, even in and of itself.
- LHLewis Howes
Just by itself?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes, and that's why it's so important for us-
- LHLewis Howes
Gosh, that's crazy to me
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... to learn how to turn our stress response off-
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... because our stress response was designed to help us survive. It is an innate biological process. We see it in the animal kingdom, so that if you're out in the wild and something's chasing you, you turn it on. And you turn it on in order for your blood pressure to go up and your heart rate to go up and your breathing to go up so you can run and escape. At the same time, you turn off all the non-essential functions, like digestion and growth and reproduction. So this beautifully designed system is help-- meant to help us survive in the wild. The problem is that in our lives here at Los Angeles and in my daily life in New York, people are constantly turning on the stress response chronically, day after day, hour after hour, for every single insult. They get a phone call that they don't like. Their kid has a problem at school, and it makes them upset. They have an argument with their coworker. And so you ima- you literally imagine people walking around with this stress response turned on in the dial 10 position every day over and over again, and that is where we see it become really, really damaging.
- 16:42 – 27:48
Dr. Narula’s Personal Health Scare
- LHLewis Howes
Did you struggle a lot growing up with learning how to navigate stress, or was it always kinda easy for you?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
You know, my... I had a really, I would say, easy upbringing in a lot of ways. I had two wonderful parents. My mom was one of the moms that sort of did everything for my brother and I. "Oh, you need this? I'm gonna go get it for you. Let me make your sandwich." You know, she was very much the doer and the fixer. Um, but my father's an immigrant from India, came here with no money, and built his whole cardiology career himself. And so I heard a lot of those stories. And I think hearing those stories of coming here from someone else and really scratching out and carving out your life, and my father always telling my brother and I, "No matter what happens to you, you can survive." He literally would say those words to us. So I was sort of infused from a very young age with this idea that whatever life throws our way, you can get through it.
- LHLewis Howes
You can handle it.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
You can handle it. And then when I was in medical school, I had my own event where I lost vision in part of my eye.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And that was really a turning point for me when I became the patient, of saying, "Oh my God, how did this happen? What does this mean? How do I walk through this diagnosis?"
- LHLewis Howes
When you were young.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And I was 22.
- LHLewis Howes
Was it stress-related? Was it some other event? Was it-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
No one knows.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
To this day.
- LHLewis Howes
Just one night you were just like-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It-
- LHLewis Howes
... "I can't really... it's kinda blurry here."
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I didn't even know really what was going on. I knew I was in the lecture hall, and I would see, like, colored lights out of the bottom part of my eye when they would turn the lights down to show us slides. And I thought, "Well, that doesn't seem normal, but I'm sure it's nothing."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And I went home to South Florida and I had some tests and they said, "Well, actually you failed your visual field exam and you have no vision in this bottom part of your right eye." And I said, "How could that be? I'm healthy. I'm 22. I don't have any other medical conditions." And they said, "Well, you could have multiple sclerosis, because that can cause that. You might have had a stroke."
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Um, they didn't know, and they said, "You have to have a brain MRI every year for the next five years." And I thought, "I'm just starting my medical career. I'm 22, and now I have this unknown diagnosis, and I have to have scans for the next five years that might show something or might not." And that was really the turning point for me, and I think we all have that moment, where I thought... I w- I was, like, spiraling, really. It was, like, the lowest, scariest point in my life. Um, and I, I always tell the story I tell in the book, that my mom sent me the Serenity Prayer on a little note card, and with a little letter that said, you know, "Read these words, and you can spend every day from here on out worrying about what might happen-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and waste all those days, or you can just put one foot in front of the other and move forward, and maybe that never happens," right?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
'Cause I was afraid, what if I lose my whole vision? What if I can't walk?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Um-
- LHLewis Howes
It's almost like the fear of the diagnosis-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes
- LHLewis Howes
... could cause you to have more challenges in the future than actually-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Correct
- 27:48 – 32:48
The Danger of Victim Identity
- LHLewis Howes
... when they receive traumatic diagnosis physically or emotionally, and they hold onto a victim identity-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... how much harder is it for them to overcome that challenge with the victim identity they're holding onto?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So hard. So hard, and it's not, it's not fair.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
You shouldn't have to carry that-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... because that's not you. There's a beautiful book that I, I reference in my book that I read when I was doing a CBS News story on a woman named Sonja Wasden who wrote a book called An Impossible Life. And she suffered from bipolar, and she had had multiple suicide attempts. Her daughter actually found one of her suicide notes.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It was a very difficult life, and she realized that, as she says, she could still have a beautiful life, that she could still have this amazing life. It wasn't an impossible life, as she titled the book, despite having all of this mental health, you know, real mental health disease. She could navigate it, and she has, you know, a beautiful life now. Her marriage is intact. She's traveling around the country with her daughter, donating her book to libraries. So it just shows you that no matter what happens to you, e- no matter how difficult it is-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... you can still be not only an agent of change for other people, but you can have... find meaning for yourself.
- LHLewis Howes
Are there any patients that come to mind, without saying their names, where they, they held onto the victim identity and that you really saw them go d- go downhill afterwards, and then also others who, maybe they were in really bad shape. You were like, "I don't know about this person, if they're gonna make it or not," but they took on an identity of inspiration-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... hope, possibilities, and not a victim identity, and you actually saw them turn it around and live a better life?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Totally. I mean, thankfully, I will say that for a lot of my patients, even if they started out with that victim [laughs] mentality, we would talk about-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... how they shouldn't feel that way and how they should put one foot in front of the other and just keep going forward, and that with time, the fear would dissipate, and so a lot of them were able to move through that. But there are other people who, almost off the bat, immediately their outlook is one that is so full of hope and optimism and faith and a lot of the skills that I talk about, that they really were able to walk through whatever their challenge was much easier and faster.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And, um, you know, that's why in the second half of the book where I talk about the resilient response, it's really this idea that it becomes a, a kit for you to use, and the more you practice these techniques, whether that's staying fit or an acceptance mentality or flexible thinking or having hope or having social support, the next time you face a challenge, you're gonna be better prepared because you've practiced it. You've fired those pathways in your brain. You're more used to pulling on that-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... from your toolbox to utilize it. And so I think the people, and this is why I may w- if I ever write a book again, it'll be a children's book, I think we need to be targeting our youth.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Because the earlier we can start training people, kids, to think in that way- ... the better capable adults they will be in order to-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... in, in, in terms of navigating life's challenges.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Um, but I ha- and, and my patients have informed a lot of my work. You know, I, I t- I think of this one patient I had who I tell the story, he went in for a routine surgery, not a cardiac procedure, and something went wrong, and he came out almost legally blind. And he came into my office-
- LHLewis Howes
He could see beforehand?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes.
- 32:48 – 39:29
The Healing Power of Faith
- LHLewis Howes
Have you seen any cases where people have really stepped into belief in God, spiritual belief, and that you've seen incredible healings because they believed so much in the power of God?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I'm so glad you asked that because I do feel like this is another area that we don't talk about a lot in medicine. Um, [laughs] actually, one of my first projects as an intern when I was in training in, at Boston at Bri- the Brigham and Women's Hospital, we were allowed to do a project on any topic, and I picked spirituality and medicine-
- LHLewis Howes
Oh
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... because I am a very spiritual person, and I believe that there is a real role for spirituality for our patients, and it's important that we ask about it. And so you will find there is a growing movement in medicine to take a spiritual history, where you ask people about their spirituality-
- LHLewis Howes
Interesting
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... because it informs what kind of care they want. Do they want a defibrillator or do they want to die if their heart goes into arrhythmia?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Do they want a blood transfusion or not? What do they want to happen at the end of their life? So we're, again, neglecting asking about this really important aspect of people's lives. But as you said, it also helps them in times of challenge.
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And I've had so many patients tell me that what pulled them through was their faith.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Was their faith. And, you know, there is a also body of literature, albeit not the traditional, but that does show the power of prayer-
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... in terms of healing, and the power of that mindset belief that you will get better and that you have someone else in your corner, a spiritual being-
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... that helps you get better. Um, so there's no question that that is very powerful.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And that's why I really, I wrote an entire chapter dedicated to faith and spirituality, because I believe that that's so meaningful.
- LHLewis Howes
That's interesting. If stress is one of the main causes of, I guess, disease, uh, not just heart disease or stroke, but if it's one of the main causes of a lot of different diseases, and if prayer brings people peace, then it sounds like it's a good prescription as well to use prayer to create more peace.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Anything that dials down your stress response.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
You know, so when people say like, "How do I turn my stress response off?" For everyone that looks-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Meditate, walk-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Right
- LHLewis Howes
... nature.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Exactly.
- LHLewis Howes
Whatever, prayer, whatever it might be.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Whatever it is. And so-
- 39:29 – 51:48
How News Rewires Your Brain
- LHLewis Howes
Over the last 10 years, have you seen people become more stressed because of social media, their phones, AI, or-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
The news and politics
- LHLewis Howes
... or the news or politics?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
That's what I hear all the time.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
All the time. When I say, "How are you?" And they say, "I'm stressed." And they say, "Have you... You know, I don't wanna watch the news anymore." And I say, "I know. I work in the news, [laughs] but I get it."
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- TNDr. Tara Narula
But, um, they... it's very difficult for people right now. Like-
- LHLewis Howes
Gosh
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... they're telling me what's happening and what they're seeing in the country is giving them an intense amount of stress.
- LHLewis Howes
It's so interesting. My dad never let us watch commercials or the news-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... um, because of that. You know, I was growing up, whenever a commercial... And, you know, unfortunately, I think it's, what, like 30 or 40% of all commercials are medical related, something like that.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
And so if it's all about here's the problem you're going to have, or if you have this problem, and here's all the side effects, right? If you're just constantly being programmed to watch and listen to that-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Right
- LHLewis Howes
... and see visually like, oh, this is what, you know, skin condition you might have or whatever it might be, it's like you're programming this, and it's causing anxiety and stress even if you don't have it.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Your dad was smart.
- LHLewis Howes
Like, what if I have this?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
[laughs]
- LHLewis Howes
I need to remember this, and I need to take this. And he was like, "I never want you to watch the news." Um, he's like, "I want you to be informed on what's happening-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... but not watch fear-based news," which is kind of all news is, like-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Right now
- LHLewis Howes
... you have to show the chaos-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... in order to get people to watch. I like reading a newsletter and just being like, "Here's what's happening today in the world. Here's what's happening that you need to be informed on."
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
But not be tied into stress around watching it.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
But that is where we're at right now, unfortunately.
- 51:48 – 56:24
3 Strategies to Build Resilience
- LHLewis Howes
what... If you can only give three pieces of advice to parents on how to raise resilient kids so that they are empowered to handle life stresses and challenges that are gonna come their way while you're here and while you're not here-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... what three things would you tell them to do?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So in the book, we talk about eight. There are eight tools that I talk about, but if I had to distill it down to the three that I would recommend, I think the first is the first tool, which is acceptance. And one of the researchers in psychology that I interviewed in the book and for a CBS News story, her name's Dr. Lucy Hone. She wrote a book called Resilient Grieving. She's fantastic. She gave one of the most watched TED Talks ever, and her first opening line is that adversity doesn't discriminate. And I think-
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs] Rich, poor, young, old
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It's... Everyone's gonna have.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So I think imparting that lesson to your kids, really bad stuff's gonna happen.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I don't know when, I don't know what it's gonna be for you, but something bad will happen, and you have to accept it, right? So that's, I think, major lesson number one. The second tool is flexible thinking-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm, mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... which I think is also really critical for people.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So it's this idea that, um, okay, maybe this was good, maybe this wasn't. I can kind of go down a different road. Um, Lucy talks about, which I love, this idea of moving goalposts, which I thought was this beautiful visual image. So Lucy Hone, this resilience researcher psychologist who studies and publishes research, lost her daughter, Abby, in a car accident.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Daughter was 12. So the resilience researcher now had to be resilient.
- LHLewis Howes
Ugh.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And she said she still had her two sons, her husband, and she realized she couldn't fall apart because she still had life with them. So she gave the analogy of, "Well, we were heading towards this goal, but I'm just gonna pick up the goalpost and move it somewhere else."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And I think it's that concept of being flexible and flowing and moving the goalpost and, and allowing yourself to create something different in terms of an image of your life. That's good. That's okay, right?
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Painting a different picture, painting with a different color, painting a different image. Still beautiful. I, I use in, the analogy in the book of Michelangelo carving, um, and saying, "I set the angel free from the marble. I saw the angel in the marble, and I carved until I set the angel free." Right? So we're all being carved and chiseled-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and chipped, but there's still an angel underneath. I want my kids to have, or any kid to have that message. And I think the third, I would say, is the power of... Gosh, this is a hard one because I, I think love and social connection is really important, and hope, which are probably the two other ones, but a purpose in life, which is the very last chapter in my book-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... um, the very last tool. I think having something that drives you and gives meaning to your life, I call it the lighthouse. It is what pulls you forward from your darkest times and moments when you're wondering, "How can I go forward?" And suddenly you realize that there is a purpose inside you. Maybe you had it and you just didn't go after it, or maybe now you have a new purpose because of what happened to you in your life. I've interviewed a lot of people who've been through a lot of horrible things, and I've seen them create or chart a new chapter or journey in their life because of what happened to them.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It-
- LHLewis Howes
It's almost like the tragedy becomes their purpose-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Exactly
- 56:24 – 1:03:51
#1 Habit to Heal Faster
- LHLewis Howes
fascinating. What's a skill that someone can start practicing daily that can make them more resilient that will help them heal faster?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Well, social connection, which I just talked about-
- LHLewis Howes
Uh-huh
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... is a, is probably the easiest one for all of us to really start with right away.
- LHLewis Howes
Not social media connection.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Not social media. Real social life connection.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
So meaning joining a group, uh, an art group or a walking group or a club, something that you like to do where you're around other people. Going to meet your friend who you haven't met with because you keep putting it off for coffee. Going for a walk with a friend. It doesn't have to be a big group. It can be one person. Even doing a Zoom or a telehealth with someone that you love just to kind of connect with them, even if it's over a screen. Um, but really recognizing the power of connection in terms of healing is so critical. We often talk about... You've probably talked about the biggest study out of Harvard of ha-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... what created a happy life for the people they followed.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
The Waldinger Study. And it wasn't money or success. It was their relationships. Our relationships in so many ways, um, make our lives and help us-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... more than we could ever possibly imagine.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Um, so I think really paying attention to our world and who we have in it and how we can build connections, and it could be even you go into Starbucks and you just talk to the person behind the counter. We are so used to not paying attention or being invested in people. Um, I see it in New York a lot. Everyone's like this.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And nobody wants to talk to anybody, even in the apartment building elevators where we're crammed in.
- LHLewis Howes
Right.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
On the subway. Um-
- LHLewis Howes
You're on top of people-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
You're on top-
- LHLewis Howes
... but no one looks at anyone's face
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... but no one's, like, connecting with people.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And sometimes just the smile from a stranger or someone who does something nice for you or a conversation, um, it's helpful to that person, maybe they needed that, and it's helpful to you. So it's just opening up your mind to the world of possibilities that exists right outside your door, or sometimes inside your door, you know, depending on who you live with.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
But really hardwiring in those social connections.
- LHLewis Howes
Have you ever seen as a doctor that money helps people have less stress, or do you feel like clients you've had in or patients who have lots of money have more stress?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Oh, that's a tough one. I think it, it can go both ways. I think, um, for some people, the financial stress of not having enough is, is huge. They can't pay their healthcare bills. They can't afford medication. They, um... And that, that is a huge stressor for people. And then I... So I think having financial stability i- is an anchor in a lot of ways. On the other hand, I think a lot of people have financial stability, but they don't have love in their life.
- 1:03:51 – 1:05:23
Can Grief Literally Kill You?
- LHLewis Howes
Okay. So Tara, as a cardiologist then, is it possible for someone to die from a broken heart?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah. Well, that, the stress-induced heart attack I told you about-
- LHLewis Howes
That's weird
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... is often called broken heart syndrome.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes, because we do see it a lot if a partner or spouse has just died, and that person is grieving, and they will, they can have a heart attack themselves.
- LHLewis Howes
And die, like, shortly after.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah. They, if... I mean, usually you recover from the broken heart syndrome-
- LHLewis Howes
Right
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... but not everyone does.
- LHLewis Howes
You've seen it before?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
That's crazy. So they could be physically healthy.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Totally fine, and just, again, the massive release of that epinephrine, norepinephrine, we think, from the bra- You know, the brain is where you process your kind of feelings and fear and emotions. And the hypothalamus and the pituitary release hormones that then go to your adrenal gland. That causes your adrenal gland to release the epinephrine and the adrenaline and the norepinephrine and the cortisol, and that flood stuns the heart, uh, and causes this stress-induced broken heart syndrome.
- LHLewis Howes
That's cool. So learning resilience before you need it is really the key.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Learning resilience before you need it. Yes, getting these strategies in place-
- LHLewis Howes
Wow
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... knowing that you are empowered-
- LHLewis Howes
When something sh- happens.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes, and practicing them.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Because it's not easy.
- LHLewis Howes
It's not.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It's not easy to, uh-
- LHLewis Howes
It's not easy
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... to think flexibly and to go to therapy-
- LHLewis Howes
Ah, uh
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and to stay fit. That's another one in there. Exercising, sleeping-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... eating well. All this is hard work. It takes, like, mental and physical effort to do these tools and strategies, but the payoff is massive, the investment in building those resilience skills.
- 1:05:23 – 1:11:46
Releasing Trauma & Finding Peace
- LHLewis Howes
Mm. You might be able to help me with understanding what happened to me one time. I was going through, um, a challenging breakup, right? And I was doing therapy for months, very intense therapy, like weekends, six to eight-hour sessions. Like, I was like, "I wanna find peace. I wanna find clarity. I wanna find freedom 'cause I don't have it."
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
And I was dealing with, uh, a breakup I was going through. I was doing therapy in the relationship, but then the relationship ended, and I was still doing it afterwards. And I was like, "Why am I still..." A- and my heart was feeling like it was so tight-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Mm-hmm
- LHLewis Howes
... for, like, years, right, in different relationships. And it was like, "Why is this so hard?" And when I was single, I didn't have the pain.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
But when I had a relationship, [laughs] I was, like, constricted. And I remember one session I was doing in therapy, it was like I was feeling this chest pain. It was kinda this heaviness. But I was super healthy and fit, but I was feeling this emotional weight and, like, a pain in my chest.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Mm.
- LHLewis Howes
And something finally clicked in therapy for me, where in that moment, I was sitting across from my, my coach and therapist, and the things we were talking about, it's almost like I finally got it, and I integrated-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Mm
- LHLewis Howes
... like, what I was learning into my mind and my body. And it was the weirdest sensation. I've only felt this once in my life. It was almost like my heart popped, and I felt a rush of what felt like plasma or some type of rushing goo throughout my whole body, where I thought I hurt myself.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Mm.
- LHLewis Howes
But it was, like, within minutes, it was like I have no chest pain, and I've never felt pain in my chest since. And this was years ago. And I don't know what happened or if medically if there's a terminology for this where it's like your heart literally explodes, but maybe in a good way. Is there something that this is-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
There's no medical terminology for that, but I will tell you people can absolutely experience chest pain, pressure, tightness, squeezing just from stress. So I have a lot of patients where we'll do a scan or imaging of their heart because we think it could be disease, and it's not. And so a lot of time... In fact, I had [laughs] chest pain at one point, and I thought it was my heart, and we did a scan and, and it was under a time of stress. So it is a real phenomenon where you can feel that kinda tightness or squeezing. A lot of times we can see the very small blood vessels that go to the heart, we call them micro vessels or microvasculature, can be dysfunctional, and we can see that under times of stress. People can get vasospasm, which is spasm of the vessels. Um, so the... again, there can be real biological impacts to the small vessels or the bigger vessels when you're under stress, and it may not result in a heart attack, but you, you feel it here. And so I think what you just explained and what you spoke to is the power of mental release. And that's-
- LHLewis Howes
It's like I finally got it, and like almost, almost like the fear was gone.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
It's like mentally I finally was like, "Oh, I'm gonna be okay. I'm enough. I'm lovable." All these different things, these insecurities, fears that I was da- dealing with in, in relationships.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
It was like, "Oh, I'm going to be okay." It was almost like I understood resilience. Like, "I'm gonna be okay no matter what happens."
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Exactly.
- LHLewis Howes
"This works out, it doesn't work out, I'm, I'm alone forever, I'm..." You know, whatever it might be, "I'm gonna be okay." 'Cause-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And that's the power of therapy.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yes.
- LHLewis Howes
And the tools that I was learning are a lot of the tools that you have in your book, The Healing Power of Resilience.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I have a lot of patients just like that who will have chest pain for, like months and months. We don't find anything, quote, "tangible", and then they go to therapy or the stressor goes away or they fix whatever was causing stress, and then they come and see me and they say, "I don't, I don't have the pain anymore."
- LHLewis Howes
Isn't that interesting?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
It's gone.
- LHLewis Howes
So a lot of this pain I feel like comes from how we interpret life's events.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Yeah.
- 1:11:46 – 1:18:44
Three Truths on Greatness
- LHLewis Howes
Uh, this is called the Three Truths. So imagine hypothetically you get to live as long as you want, live the most incredible life from now until the moment you die.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
Um, but it's your last day on earth, and for whatever reason, all of your content is erased from this world, this conversation, your books, anything you've ever said, gone. Hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world, three truths. What would those be for you?
- TNDr. Tara Narula
One would be love is the most important thing. I think that we are on this planet to love ourse- learn to love ourselves and learn how to love others. Um, so I think love is, is the reason we are here. Uh, the second one would be about learning to find your passion and purpose in life and go after it, uh, really nurturing that. Because I think when you don't, you don't feel fulfilled in life. And again, we have this beautiful chance to be on this earth, so make the most of it.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And then I think the third would be about being grateful. Uh, we don't... We talk a lot about gratitude, but not enough about gratitude, and I think gratitude is actually another tool to help us feel less stressed-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... when we notice those things that are really awesome that happen to us-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... in life. And they can be really tiny things or really big things, but really putting your focus intentionally on those great things that do happen to us, and for all of us, there are great things that happen-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... um, would be a really important lesson.
- LHLewis Howes
I mean, I guess if you feel like you're going through a stressful time in life, you could always go to a hospital. And see what people are dealing with in a hospital, you know? And maybe as a doctor, you get to see like-
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I see it all
- LHLewis Howes
... gosh, every day you see challenges with people, and hopefully people healing as well after they come and see you a bunch of times. But it's like, go to a hospital and see if your problems are as big as you think they are.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
I see so much, Lewis. You know, I think as a doctor, we all, physicians, see so much. And it's hard sometimes because people deal with incredible amounts of difficulty, whether that's in their social life or their physical world-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... and suffering and heartache. Um, and to me, uh, I love working to be a healer, and I think we can all be healers for other people, for just listening to them and walking with them and being there for them. Um, I, I think a lot about my one patient, um, I love this, where he... I'm his cardiologist, and his wife is my patient, and he has Parkinson's. And he's been slowly deteriorating in terms of his ability to function with his disease over the last year. And at one of his visits, he came to see me, and he was sitting in the exam table, and his wife was sitting in the chair. And he said... I said, "Do you have any more questions?" Because we had wrapped up the cardiology part. And he said, "Dr. Narula, um, I just, I'm writing a book, and I still have so much more that I want to write, and I love my wife, and I have so much time that I want to spend with her, and I want to see this part of the country, and there's so much more that I want to do. How do I not lose hope?" And I sat there in that moment, not as his neurologist, who was treating his Parkinson's, but just as another human, hoping I could say the right words that would help him in that moment. And I said, "You know, you find hope in the small daily wins. You find it in the evenings when you can hold her hand."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
"You find it in the next chapter you're gonna write tonight. You find it in the idea that tomorrow there might be some other cure that comes around the bend for this aspect of your Parkinson's. You find it in the days that you still can get up and walk and play ping pong," which he loves to do. "That's where you find your hope, and you hold on to that." And I think that just speaks to, um, not only the power of hope, but I know that that conversation was meaningful for me, and I think it was meaningful for him, and we can all do that for other people. We don't realize how much our little small conversations might impact someone. You think what you say maybe doesn't affect someone, but you have the power, everyone does, to change even just one person's life-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... sometimes by the words that you say. And I think that's so important for people to know the power they have to be healers-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... for other people in their lives.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm. That's beautiful. Uh, Tara, I want to acknowledge you before I ask the final question for being an inspiration for y- people to learn how to heal themselves because I think a lot of the times we don't feel like we have the skills or the knowledge or the tools, and we, we need to go see a, a medical professional to look at these things for us, which is true once we get to that place. But if we can learn how to heal ourselves first, prevent these things, hopefully we don't have to go when it gets really bad. Hopefully, we prevent things going bad, and we can really create that inner peace that we need to, to eliminate a lot of this stuff. So I wanna acknowledge you for writing this book and for being a voice online and on the news of giving people tools on how to heal.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And I, I just want to say, I mean, I'm not a psychologist. The, this body of research really comes out of the world of psychology.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- TNDr. Tara Narula
And they've been doing this for the last almost 70, 80 years, this growing research in resilience. But we have research there-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- TNDr. Tara Narula
... on Navy SEALs and POWs-
Episode duration: 1:18:44
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