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Lewis HowesHow To SPOT A Narcissist When DATING! (Watch Out For This)| Ramani Durvasula & Lewis Howes
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Chapter summaries
Why Narcissism Went Mainstream
Lewis Howes asks why narcissism is such a big topic now. Dr. Ramani Durvasula traces her long research on a once-ignored subject and how materialism, reality TV and social media made validation-seeking widespread. She also describes patients who changed once educated about these patterns.
- •She studied narcissism when nobody cared about it
- •A 1970s book by Christopher Lasch tied narcissism to materialism and eroding community
- •Facebook in 2008 made her realize validation could be had from home
- •Clients who learned about narcissism made quick changes such as divorcing or setting boundaries
- •Communicating with a narcissist is described as impossible
Can Narcissistic Relationships Improve? Temperament and Personality
Lewis asks whether relationships with a narcissist can be healed, and Durvasula says probably not. She explains why narcissistic clients come to therapy and why personality doesn't really change. She then distinguishes temperament from environment.
- •On a probability basis, hope for change is low and would require daily commitment
- •Narcissistic clients often arrive after ultimatums, shaming or lawsuits
- •Personality stays stable, and confidence gained over time is not personality change
- •Temperament is the genetic part of personality; the rest is shaped by the environment
- •Every narcissistic client she worked with had a difficult childhood temperament
How Narcissism Develops: Upbringing, Trauma and Attachment
The conversation moves to how a difficult child can be supported and how narcissism develops. Durvasula covers meeting a child where they are, overvaluation, trauma, conditional love and attachment style. She stresses these are risk factors, not guarantees.
- •Safe attachment, success experiences and unconditional love help a difficult-tempered child
- •Overvaluing children for nothing, while neglecting their emotions, can foster narcissism
- •Most people exposed to childhood trauma do not become narcissistic
- •Conditional love teaches that love is transactional
- •Secure attachment lowers the likelihood of narcissism; anxious attachment is associated with it
Narcissists vs. Psychopaths and Instrumental Empathy
Lewis asks about the differences between narcissists, psychopaths and sociopaths. Durvasula says they overlap, but narcissists are insecure and anxious while psychopaths are calm and stress resistant. She also explains how narcissists use empathy for their own ends.
- •Narcissists are insecure and sensitive to criticism, which protects against shame
- •Psychopaths have different nervous system reactivity and little anxiety
- •Psychopaths are motivated by power, pleasure and profit
- •Narcissists have instrumental empathy: they know what it is but weaponize it
- •This explains why they seem charming early on
Core Traits, Charm, Subtypes and Malignant Narcissism
Durvasula lays out the inner core of narcissism and the outer presentation of charm and charisma. She describes the grandiose and malignant subtypes. She warns that charm makes people miss or justify warning signs.
- •Core traits include entitlement, grandiosity, validation seeking, rage and blame shifting
- •Entitlement works as a suit of armor over inadequacy
- •Charm, confidence and generosity are a front that lowers guard
- •Malignant narcissists add sadism and paranoia and are more likely to be aggressive or abusive
- •Charming, empathic, humble people are described as unicorns
Staying or Leaving: Radical Acceptance and the DEEP Technique
Lewis asks what to do after spotting a narcissist in a relationship. Durvasula says walking away isn't always possible, though no contact works best. She introduces radical acceptance, the DEEP technique and the idea of picking battles by true north.
- •No contact gave the best outcomes in the research she cites, like removing a toxic gas
- •If you must stay, practice radical acceptance that it won't change
- •DEEP means don't defend, engage, explain or personalize
- •Narcissists bait with aggression and want the fight
- •True north means fighting only for core values, such as your kids
Jealousy, Triangulation and Pathological Jealousy
Durvasula describes narcissistic relationships as always involving a third person and separates normal jealousy from pathological jealousy. Normal jealousy is evolutionary and healthy, while pathological jealousy is paranoid and accusatory.
- •Narcissists create intrigue or jealousy by involving a third party
- •Normal jealousy reflects a pair-bonded species and caring
- •Pathological jealousy involves paranoia, negative mood and accusations
- •She shares a personal example of mild, healthy jealousy
Kids on Social Media and Narcissism as the False Self
Starting from the causes of narcissism, the discussion turns to parents posting children online. Durvasula worries that kids learn their worth is their social media persona. She frames narcissism as a mask, and Lewis relates it to his book on masculinity masks.
- •Facebook-born children are the first generation documented from birth
- •Children can't consent to public posting
- •Kids may learn parental love depends on performing for validation
- •Narcissism is the false self, the opposite of authenticity
- •Lewis describes wearing an athlete mask and needing to win
Self-Actualization and Fully Authentic People
Durvasula brings up Carl Rogers and Maslow and describes self-actualization as the top of human growth. She recounts meeting five self-actualized people, including an auto mechanic in Johannesburg and a man serving poor communities in India, as the opposite of narcissism.
- •Self-actualization is the summit of human growth in humanistic psychology
- •The people she met were older and deeply authentic
- •Their presence brought serenity and joy
- •They showed no envy or comparison
- •She calls them the opposite of narcissism
Communicating with a Narcissist, Custody and Self-Loathing
Lewis returns to how to communicate with a narcissist, and Durvasula says you can't. She discusses divorce and custody constraints and cultivating other parts of life. She then addresses whether narcissists can love and the misconception that they love themselves.
- •Family law and 50/50 custody make leaving hard, so some wait until kids turn 18
- •Radical acceptance is compared to accepting cold weather and dressing for it
- •When people give up, they often feel grief
- •Whether a narcissist can love is subjective
- •Narcissism is a disorder of self-loathing and narcissists are miserable
Signs of a Narcissistic Parent and Why Athletes Are Vulnerable
Lewis asks about signs of a narcissistic parent, and Durvasula lists dismissiveness, shaming and rage. The talk shifts to Lewis's own relationship history. Durvasula explains why athletes and doers keep working at relationships that drain them, and that healthy relationships are not constant hard work.
- •Parental signs include selfishness, dismissiveness, devaluing emotions and rage
- •Walking on eggshells is a hallmark of a narcissistic parent
- •Athletes believe harder effort fixes anything, so they stay too long
- •Healthy relationships share kindness, compassion, reciprocity and respect
- •Narcissistic relationships lack all of those ingredients
Green Flags and the Michelangelo Phenomenon
Lewis asks how to know a new partner isn't a narcissist. Durvasula points to green flags such as behavior under stress and support for your growth. She explains the Michelangelo phenomenon, and Lewis shares past and present relationship experiences.
- •Watch how someone acts under stress, such as running late to the airport
- •Healthy partners notice and show presence and flexibility
- •The Michelangelo phenomenon is seeing and supporting each other's potential
- •Insecurity alone doesn't mean narcissism
- •Two narcissists together tend toward volatile, superficial, transactional relationships
How Common Narcissism Is and Qualities of Non-Narcissists
Lewis asks what percentage of people are narcissists. Durvasula explains why she avoids the narcissistic personality disorder label and why diagnosis is difficult. She gives her estimate of one in five and lists qualities of non-narcissistic people, then shares her own vulnerability.
- •Diagnosis needs subjective distress or impairment, which many narcissists don't report
- •Epidemiology puts diagnosed NPD at 1 to 6%
- •Her own estimate is 20 to 25%, higher in big cities like LA
- •Non-narcissists show empathy, flexibility, self-awareness and humility
- •Her own feeling of not being enough has made her vulnerable to narcissists
Self-Love, Early Boundaries and Aftermath of Narcissistic Relationships
Lewis asks how to love ourselves fully, and Durvasula invokes Carl Rogers' conditions of worth. She advises detecting narcissism and setting boundaries early. She describes the psychological aftermath of these relationships.
- •Dropping conditions of worth means seeing yourself as lovable simply because you are
- •Detecting narcissism early and setting boundaries makes narcissists lose interest
- •Charming people are acceptable only if they show humility
- •Aftermath includes confusion, self-doubt, rumination, self-neglect and self-blame
- •Euphoric recall makes people long for the unreal good parts
The Narcissistic Relationship Cycle
Using her whiteboard-style walkthrough, Durvasula lays out the stages of the narcissistic relationship cycle. They run from love bombing to devaluing, discard, hoovering and future faking. She advises getting out early and adds a note on narcissists as dangerous drivers.
- •Love bombing is an intense, seductive start that distracts from red flags
- •Devaluing begins once the narcissist feels secure, with subtle digs
- •Discard can mean silent treatment, infidelity or lying
- •Hoovering and future faking pull people back with promises and moving goalposts
- •Narcissists tend to drive aggressively
Gaslighting, Coping Strategies and Agreeable People
Durvasula defines gaslighting as a grooming process that denies someone's reality. She gives responses like staying on the original issue, and describes how people cope when staying. She also discusses agreeableness and why agreeable people can be targets.
- •Gaslighting happens over time and ends with the person doubting themselves
- •Early firm pushback often makes gaslighters move on
- •Deflection can be handled by tabling other issues and returning to the original one
- •People who stay build friendships, communities and hobbies for support
- •Agreeable men make less money and can be soft targets
Healing, Collaboration, Resources and Closing Truths
Lewis shares his healing journey and shift from winning to collaboration, and Durvasula links winning to safety and fear of abandonment. They discuss protecting yourself and why people enable narcissists. The episode ends with her books, resources, three truths and her definition of greatness.
- •Lewis describes needing to win to get love and acceptance, then moving to collaboration
- •Collaboration brings fear of abandonment, so a good defense and documentation matter
- •People enable narcissists because they want to believe in the magic
- •Her advice is to take it slow and not justify bad behavior
- •Her three truths include that cruelty isn't your fault, and her greatness is humility, self-awareness, compassion and empathy
