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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

THE SECRET To Negotiating In Business & Life TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS | Chris Voss & Lewis Howes

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Chris VossguestLewis Howeshost
Jan 16, 20201h 21mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 0:39

    Using labels to support someone through conflict

    1. CV

      You know, most of the time if you see conflict in somebody, most people say, "Ah, it'll be fine. Just keep working hard. It'll be fine."

    2. LH

      Right, right.

    3. CV

      "It's all part of the journey." [laughs]

    4. LH

      Right.

    5. CV

      Instead of actually being a great sounding board for somebody and, and helping them sound it out, consequently learning a lot about that person at the same time.

    6. LH

      It sounds like you're going through a lot right now. It sounds like you're having a hard time with this.

    7. CV

      Yeah.

    8. LH

      It sounds like-

    9. CV

      Exactly. [upbeat music]

  2. 0:39 – 3:20

    Negotiating with integrity without burning bridges

    1. LH

      Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got the iconic Chris Voss in the house. My man. [claps]

    2. CV

      Thanks for having me back.

    3. LH

      Super glad you're here. You were on, I think it was about four years ago.

    4. CV

      Yeah.

    5. LH

      Three years ago, four years ago.

    6. CV

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    7. LH

      Blew my mind with, uh, the stuff you're talking about in your book, Never Split the Difference. The book has gone on to just take over. It seems like every year it gets bigger and reaches more people, and it's constantly in the top of the ranks.

    8. CV

      Yeah.

    9. LH

      You've now got a master class which is blowing up. You've got workshops around the country, and I'm ass- assuming soon to be around the world.

    10. CV

      Yeah.

    11. LH

      You've got people doing big deals in a, uh, in an inspiring and a, and a good, clean way-

    12. CV

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah

    13. LH

      ... of integrity.

    14. CV

      Yeah.

    15. LH

      You're not trying to screw people over. You really try to create the win-win experience for people making negotiations, which I think is beautiful because there's a lot of people who have, especially in LA, who say they've been burned by business deals or negotiations.

    16. CV

      Right.

    17. LH

      They thought they knew who the person was in a business deal, but then something went south. They didn't have their contracts set up, they didn't have the true negotiation set up, and they got screwed over. And so you're teaching people, whether it be in business, whether it be in a marriage, whether it be in just-

    18. CV

      Yeah

    19. LH

      ... friendships-

    20. CV

      Yeah

    21. LH

      ... how to negotiate with integrity so that everyone wins.

    22. CV

      Right.

    23. LH

      Is that right?

    24. CV

      Yeah, yeah. And then the cool thing, you, you ... A subtle distinction. Weekly, it's what we hear and what we don't hear. On a weekly basis, if not daily, somebody says, "I cut a deal. It's going to change my life."

    25. LH

      Really?

    26. CV

      Now, what they also never say is I ... They never brag about beating anybody. Nobody ever gets burned. Like, one, one of the guys, the deal he, compensation deal he cut with his employer, he says, literally, "This will change my life." It's also the best avenue for his employer to grow his company.

    27. LH

      Mm.

    28. CV

      So the company's gonna get huge for giving this guy a great deal.

    29. LH

      Right.

    30. CV

      Nobody ever burns anybody else-

  3. 3:20 – 5:48

    Staying calm under pressure by choosing curiosity

    1. CV

      Yeah. Well, there's, there's a couple different ways to do that. I mean, the first one, it's in a process to begin with. Like, if you, if you can learn to get, be genuinely curious, like a genuinely curious state of mind, it's really close to the mindset of flow also.

    2. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CV

      But it's highly positive. You pull in a lot of data. You'll never feel backed into a corner. You will never bl- burn, blow up a bridge.

    4. LH

      If you're acting curious.

    5. CV

      If you're completely curious. Like, if, if, if you're calling me names or if you're threatening me-

    6. LH

      Yeah

    7. CV

      ... there's a lot of threatening going on out there, defensive threatening, you know, I might, I might react. Like, one of the things that we found out, couple things we found out about the book we didn't know, uh, beforehand, uh, the procurement negotiator. In business, the procurement negotiator is feared.

    8. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CV

      People are scared of procurement. Procurement tend to be very threatening, very attacking, very, very, very pushy. Now, flip side is it's, unfortunately that's not fair because procurement's one of the toughest jobs out there. Like, whoever thought the idea of having a procurement negotiator, it's like in th- ... It's a great theory. In practicality, they got one of the toughest jobs on the planet. So they're constantly being backed into a corner by their employer. They're backed into a corner. They're probably gonna make threats.

    10. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. CV

      You're on the other side of that threat making. You're gonna get bent out of shape. You're gonna wanna threaten back. You're gonna not wanna deal with them.

    12. LH

      Right.

    13. CV

      That's fear-based stuff. Instead of going like, "How dare you threaten me?" Because a lot of procurement people make threats, you should go like, "Wow. What the ... What's behind the threat, man?"

    14. LH

      Mm.

    15. CV

      "What kind of pressure are you under?" Somebody makes threats against you in a negotiation, chances are they're not a jerk. Chances are they are under tremendous pressure.

    16. LH

      Mm.

    17. CV

      You know, "If you don't make this deal with us, our company's never gonna deal with you again." You know, my instinctive reaction as a combative person is like, "Yeah, screw you. I can live without you."

    18. LH

      Right.

    19. CV

      "You're an idiot." But instead, my best reaction is to say, "Sounds like you're under a lot of pressure," 'cause you're not gonna make that threat unless you're feeling tremendous pressure.

    20. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    21. CV

      The original question, how do I not overreact? If I'm really curious about, what in the world are you dealing with that's making you act like that?

    22. LH

      Right.

    23. CV

      Then I won't overreact in the moment.

  4. 5:48 – 8:05

    Practice, negativity wiring, and the gratitude “reset”

    1. LH

      What if it's something that's r- you care about so much?

    2. CV

      It always is.

    3. LH

      Your baby, your business, your thing.

    4. CV

      [laughs]

    5. LH

      Like, what if it's-

    6. CV

      It's hard

    7. LH

      ... so how do you go to a place as a defensive person by default to not be defensive when someone is making an emotional attack on you? Obviously it's not a life-threatening attack, but it feels- ... you know, triggering.

    8. CV

      Yeah, yeah.

    9. LH

      So how do you separate that emotional part in your brain or your heart and just say, "Okay, I'm not gonna go there. I'm just gonna be more curious." Is it just a matter of practicing it over and over?

    10. CV

      Yes.

    11. LH

      Is it ro- is it role-playing? Is it-

    12. CV

      Yeah, it's a, it's any performance, it's a performance skill.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. CV

      You know, everybody we have in, in performance skills, which is almost all of them other than riding a bike, you got three choices, and only three for tomorrow: stay even, be worse, get better.

    15. LH

      Mm.

    16. CV

      Two out of three of those choices require effort.

    17. LH

      Right.

    18. CV

      You gotta, you gotta put some effort in just to stay even. I s- somebody did an analogy the other day, you know, positive frame of mind. It's like taking a shower. Today you can't say, "Well, I don't gotta take a shower today 'cause I took one yesterday."

    19. LH

      Right. [laughs]

    20. CV

      Yeah, I don't have to brush my teeth today, I brushed my teeth yesterday.

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. CV

      You know, the, the repetitive behaviors to stay in a positive frame of mind are critical because we're naturally wired to be negative. You know this crazy little thing in the middle of our head called the amygdala.

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    24. CV

      Neuroscience has shown us that 75% of the real estate in your amygdala is dedicated to negative thoughts.

    25. LH

      Wow.

    26. CV

      75%. And that's not, that's not a psy- psychology thing, it's mapping the brain with neuroscience imaging. We needed that negative attitude when we were running from saber-toothed tigers-

    27. LH

      Right

    28. CV

      ... on a jungle path.

    29. LH

      To protect us, yeah.

    30. CV

      To live.

  5. 8:05 – 11:22

    Lessons from FBI work: when bridges burned internally

    1. LH

      Yeah. Okay. So as a FBI, uh, negotiator for, what, 24 years? Is that what it was?

    2. CV

      FBI agent for 24 years, hostage negotiator for the, the biggest portion of that.

    3. LH

      Biggest portion. Um, how often did you fall backwards and not do two of the three, but you did the, the negative part of it where you went backwards, where someone was really aggressive or attacking you, or say that one word or the trigger phrase that got you to react? How often did that happen? As opposed to, "Man, what are you going through?" Like in- as opposed to being that curious-

    4. CV

      [laughs]

    5. LH

      ... loving negotiator, how often-

    6. CV

      The loving hostage negotiator.

    7. LH

      [laughs]

    8. CV

      Let me give you a hug, Mr. Terrist.

    9. LH

      How often did you fall back into a negative state, I would say?

    10. CV

      You know, um, uh, when it, it, it just makes no sense. In, in dealing with the bad guys, I never fell back.

    11. LH

      Really?

    12. CV

      I would get mad at my bosses [laughs] and yell at them.

    13. LH

      Why?

    14. CV

      My negotiation... You know, I, I, when I was a hostage negotiator, I was on a bit of a mission. I mean, you know, we were out there, people's lives were on the line, and it's a, it's a frightening environment for everybody who's involved in the rescue-

    15. LH

      Yeah

    16. CV

      ... if you will. And, and so, you know, I was, I was determined to, that we were gonna stand up for the, for the kidnap victims and their families, no matter what kinda, what kind of damage it caused internally. I stepped on no shortage of toes-

    17. LH

      Yeah

    18. CV

      ... within the US government and the FBI by being really insistent about what I thought was right. And I was probably harder on them than I should've been. I get, I get the question a couple times, "If you had your career to do over again, what would you do differently?" My answer's consistently been I'd have, I'd have been nicer.

    19. LH

      To the people you worked with?

    20. CV

      To the people I worked with, and especially the people I worked for. Now, I wouldn't have backed off of anything, but I would've just been nicer about it.

    21. LH

      You wouldn't have burned bridges.

    22. CV

      I would've burned fewer bridges.

    23. LH

      Fewer bridges. [laughs]

    24. CV

      [laughs]

    25. LH

      Okay. Did you burn a lot of bridges?

    26. CV

      Yeah, burned some, you know.

    27. LH

      Yeah.

    28. CV

      You, burned some and some, some of them, if their heart was in the right place, they got over it.

    29. LH

      Yeah. Yeah.

    30. CV

      And i- if it wasn't, I mean, I remember being on a, a secure video conference with a bunch of different elements, the National Security Council. I'm in FBI headquarters, guys from the White House in, and I, and I got after them a little bit. Um, I got, I was harder, harsher. Spoke harshly to them.

  6. 11:22 – 16:19

    Everyday negotiation: Starbucks, recognition, and shared laughter

    1. LH

      That's cool. So when, um, when people... Let's do basic negotiation right here. When people are looking to make a deal, whether it's in business, and it's mostly business negotiation is what I think a lot of people are diving into this, but they're doing it with relationships, with friendships-

    2. CV

      Day-to-day

    3. LH

      ... with family, with kids, everything. You're-

    4. CV

      Are you in a negotiation when you order coffee at Starbucks?

    5. LH

      Absolutely.

    6. CV

      What makes it a negotiation?

    7. LH

      Because I usually like to make it a game to see what I can get.

    8. CV

      Ooh.

    9. LH

      What I can get for free.

    10. CV

      [laughs]

    11. LH

      I usually, I like to, I like to make, see what I can get for a discount, what I can get for free, and I also just try to make it a game of like how can I change someone's day? So I'm always thinking of like, okay-

    12. CV

      To make it better, right?

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. CV

      Because the game is fun.

    15. LH

      This g- this person is-

    16. CV

      The game is fun

    17. LH

      ... I, I, I try to put myself in the person's shoes-

    18. CV

      Yeah

    19. LH

      ... who's taking the order.

    20. CV

      Yeah.

    21. LH

      And the person who's making my drink. So-

    22. CV

      Ah

    23. LH

      ... I think this is a lot of my ... Yeah.

    24. CV

      Too-

    25. LH

      Because I want to-

    26. CV

      Too, too important, so-

    27. LH

      I want a great drink.

    28. CV

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    29. LH

      You know? 'Cause I've got a lot of times where it's like, ah, it doesn't taste as good. So I try to, first off, say something to the person making the drink, because you're waiting in line usually, and if you're at Starbucks, they're m- you know, running around backwards.

    30. CV

      They're busy, right?

  7. 16:19 – 21:19

    What Chris learned after the book: procurement realities and “fake deals”

    1. LH

      Small ways, yeah. It's funny because I remember having a similar, uh, interaction with people. I went on Ellen a few years ago, and then I went on, um, Glenn Beck within the same 24 hours.

    2. CV

      Interesting.

    3. LH

      And people were like, "How could you go on someone like Glenn Beck after you go on Ellen?" Thinking that he's, whatever, not as positive or, uh-

    4. CV

      Right

    5. LH

      ... you know, compassionate as Ellen, right?

    6. CV

      Right.

    7. LH

      And I said, "To be honest, I'm happy to go on anyone's platform who's got an audience because why do I wanna only talk to people who think and believe the same way I do, or a similar way?" Right? I wanna talk to people who think in different beliefs and try to support them as well and add value to them as well.

    8. CV

      It's what empathy's about, right?

    9. LH

      Right. Can't just-

    10. CV

      It's exactly-

    11. LH

      ... preach to the choir all day long.

    12. CV

      Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're not, you're ... For whatever reason, in their head, they have a reason for what they're thinking.

    13. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    14. CV

      And if you hear them out without attacking them in return, they're shocked.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. CV

      And then their mind opens up a little bit.

    17. LH

      Yeah.

    18. CV

      They go like, "Ah, somebody doesn't believe in what I believe I can have a conversation with?"

    19. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    20. CV

      Yeah, it makes all the difference in the world.

    21. LH

      That's huge. Now, you had ... Your book came out a few years ago, and you told me before we started this that you've learned so much since the book.

    22. CV

      Right.

    23. LH

      What are the biggest findings since the book that you've learned about negotiation or making-

    24. CV

      Well, it-

    25. LH

      ... better deals?

    26. CV

      Yeah. The, uh, first of all, that, you know, the entire system was first designed to, to be successful against the international kidnapper, and that profile is almost exactly [laughs] the profile of the f- professional negotiator in business.

    27. LH

      Really?

    28. CV

      The contracts guy, the procurement guy, gal, s- almost exactly the same animal. So found that, and so it's far more useful-

    29. LH

      Hmm

    30. CV

      ... to people ... The, the hard bargainer in business deals, they're a minority. There are probably about 25% of the people that are out, about about 25% of the people that are out there are real sharks that are looking to cut your throat. Now, you might need to make that deal

  8. 21:19 – 28:09

    Qualifying fast: the power—and danger—of “why”

    1. LH

      How do you figure that out?

    2. CV

      The, you know, the, the simplest way is if, if you were buying my service, if you were looking for a negotiation training.

    3. LH

      Yeah.

    4. CV

      In a first conversation, I'd say, "Lewis, you know, Harvard's out there, Wharton is out there, Paris is out there. I got a lot of great competitors."

    5. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    6. CV

      I mean, these people that are really good. Why me?

    7. LH

      Mm.

    8. CV

      Why would you ever... I was a hostage negotiator.

    9. LH

      Yeah.

    10. CV

      Why would you ever come to a hostage negotiator to learn how to negotiate? Now, you're gonna do one of two things, 'cause why triggers defensiveness in every human being on the planet. If I'd have said-

    11. LH

      [laughs]

    12. CV

      ... "Lewis, why'd you wear those shoes?"

    13. LH

      Right.

    14. CV

      You, you, your first thought is like, "What's wrong with my shoes?"

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. CV

      And you might say, "'Cause, 'cause I like them. 'Cause they're comfortable."

    17. LH

      Right.

    18. CV

      It's defensive.

    19. LH

      You know, it's funny you say that because [laughs] my mom, I ask her why all the time, and sh-

    20. CV

      God, you're crazy

    21. LH

      ... she says to me, [laughs] she says to me six months ago, "I stopped answering why questions." I go, "Why?"

    22. CV

      [laughs]

    23. LH

      So, but it's interesting. So why, why is why-

    24. CV

      Globally, the word why always creates defensiveness on anybody we ask it. Now, you may not always be accusing them when you use the word, but if I've done something wrong, you're gonna say, "Why'd you do that?"

    25. LH

      Yeah, that's the worst.

    26. CV

      That's everybody's first response-

    27. LH

      Yeah

    28. CV

      ... when they think somebody's done... And so we hit it enough, we're always defensive. So, but if I say, "Why would you do business with me?" If you're gonna do it, you're gonna defend it. You're gonna say, "Well, a hostage negotiator, you, you negotiate under pressure."

    29. LH

      Yeah, interesting. So you reverse psychology the why.

    30. CV

      It's a little bit of reverse psychology.

  9. 28:09 – 33:00

    Building credibility when you’re new—and why small interactions are negotiations

    1. LH

      What if... I mean, what if there's someone who's just starting out in business, they maybe don't have the reputation, they don't have the credibility yet, they don't have the audience size, where people aren't coming to them seeking them out yet, they're trying to make a name for themself. The new real estate agent who's never done a deal, uh, the new videographer who's trying to get their first client. Like, how do you get them to say, "Well, why do you wanna work with me if I've never had the experience?"

    2. CV

      Well, they're not gonna be able to answer that question.

    3. LH

      Gotcha.

    4. CV

      So but you... There, there's, there's another, there's another way to do it. Um, an attorney I hired recently on a very specific issue wrote a white paper on that topic and put it out there.

    5. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    6. CV

      So I already knew he knew what he was talking about.

    7. LH

      Right.

    8. CV

      He put that out. He demonstrated an expertise in the area. He took the time to do the research. He took the time to review the issues. He took the time to write this white paper and he put it out there.

    9. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    10. CV

      It was an issue that we were struggling with internally. I, I, I had an intern at the time. He says, "Hey, I found this attorney who wrote this white paper." Like, perfect. Bang. We w- went in right away and I, and I knew that, that he had it. So if you're just starting out, put an article on LinkedIn demonstrating what you know at that point in time.

    11. LH

      The credibility, yeah.

    12. CV

      You know, people, people wanna... Well, yeah, people wanna know if you understand. And so you can be brand new in an industry and develop an understanding of some aspect of that in- industry in short order. LinkedIn is one of those great... It's a marketing tool. It's a marketing platform. Put a piece out on, on LinkedIn.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. CV

      Pretty, pretty good chance it's gonna create some more back and forth. There's gonna be a bunch of people that are gonna be critical of you. Nine out of 10 of them aren't gonna know what they're talking about. But a couple of people who are on your side will add some comments that'll help refine what you know. And now you've just demonstrated you're bringing value to the table-

    15. LH

      Right

    16. CV

      ... the minute you walk in the room.

    17. LH

      Right. What are the most common negotiations that everyone goes through on a daily basis?

    18. CV

      Wow. Any... Well, any time, uh, somebody has got the words I want or I need- ... coming out of their mouth, you're in a negotiation

    19. LH

      You're in a negotiation

    20. CV

      Right. The commodity that's always at stake is time.

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. CV

      Um, so, you know, I'm, I'm in a negotiation when I check into a hotel because I want a free upgrade.

    23. LH

      Right

    24. CV

      Or typically, I'm in a hotel early and a lot of hotels wanna charge you early check-in fee. Well, I don't wanna pay that fee.

    25. LH

      Right. Or a late check-out.

    26. CV

      Or a late check-out.

    27. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    28. CV

      They don't wanna give late check-outs to anybody that's not one of their super executives.

    29. LH

      I'm, I'm always pushing for that 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 PM late check-out [laughs] .

    30. CV

      Right. Right. Yeah, so I mean, they could do that for you-

  10. 33:00 – 36:33

    Smiling, tone, and repetition: training invisible negotiation skills

    1. LH

      What's the, what's the formula or process to get people to do things just 'cause they feel like it?

    2. CV

      Well, you know, it's, it's really, it's, it's gonna sound stupid.

    3. LH

      Yeah [laughs] . Smiling.

    4. CV

      Smiling.

    5. LH

      Being nice. Yeah.

    6. CV

      So smiling, uh, neuroscience behind a smile. If you smile at somebody, you actually hit their mirror neurons. You start a smile in their brain.

    7. LH

      Wow.

    8. CV

      Smile is an involuntary response.

    9. LH

      A mirror neuron, neurons is-

    10. CV

      Mirror neurons in their brain. It's the same as if the doctor hits your knee with a little hammer and your, your leg kicks forward. You didn't choose to have your leg kick forward. It's an involuntary response. So if somebody sees you and you smile, you've instantly hit their mirror neurons. You started a chemical change. Now, they might fight it, and sometimes you gotta get them three smiles.

    11. LH

      [laughs] Right.

    12. CV

      But by the third smile, you got them smiling too.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. CV

      So you've already started the process. And then, uh, your inner voice betrays your outer voice. When you say, "How are you?" to somebody at the Starbucks, your inner voice is saying, "I'm trying to make your day better. I, I, I, I want you to be a happier person." They're gonna feel it. If your inner voice is saying like, "How are you today? I need my Starbucks coffee, and I need to get out of here, and I hate this line, and I hate how long you guys..." If that's in your voice, they're gonna feel that. They're gonna be pouring decaf in-

    15. LH

      Mm

    16. CV

      ... instead of, instead of the other kind.

    17. LH

      Right.

    18. CV

      So your entire approach, the neuroscience shows us the person is picking it up-

    19. LH

      Mm-hmm

    20. CV

      ... and responding. And so your, your body language, your tone of voice, the greatest negotiators in the world really maximize that-

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm

    22. CV

      ... because it's an invisible skill.

    23. LH

      Yeah. But it's in a skill that you can teach, it sounds like.

    24. CV

      And learn.

    25. LH

      And learn.

    26. CV

      You can teach it. You can learn it. You can practice it. All you gotta do is y- get your, get your repi- get your repetitions in. Um, uh, John Foley's a Blue Angel pilot. I heard him speak about four years ago. He talked about how long does it take to build a habit, how much training do you need. He called it grooving a, uh, putting a groove in your brain. The Blue Angels, you know, they gotta build their habits before they get up in the sky-

    27. LH

      Yeah

    28. CV

      ... otherwise the jets crash.

    29. LH

      I was in a Blue Angel two years ago. It was crazy, man.

    30. CV

      That had to have been an adrenaline ride.

  11. 36:33 – 44:26

    The labeling drill, deeper connection, and learning someone’s story fast

    1. LH

      Label it?

    2. CV

      Label it. It seems like, it sounds like, it looks like. A label's a verbal observation.

    3. LH

      Okay.

    4. CV

      But I need you to use those exact words. And if I say, "I love teaching negotiations," now label my emotion.

    5. LH

      Your emotion?

    6. CV

      The emotion that I displayed when I said, "I love teaching negotiations." Label that.

    7. LH

      What did you say, the three things? It-

    8. CV

      It, it seems like, it sounds like, or it looks like. Label it.

    9. LH

      Say all three of them?

    10. CV

      It... Just pick one of those three. Say, all right, I'm gonna say it again.

    11. LH

      Yeah.

    12. CV

      And I want you to say word for word, "It sounds like," and then fill in the blank.

    13. LH

      Okay.

    14. CV

      I love teaching negotiation.

    15. LH

      It sounds like you love teaching negotiation.

    16. CV

      Yeah.

    17. LH

      [laughs]

    18. CV

      Now, that's enough. Now, to start with, what just happened is you demonstrated it perfectly.

    19. LH

      Okay.

    20. CV

      'Cause the important part is you have to say the first three words.

    21. LH

      Hmm. It sounds like.

    22. CV

      That actually fires the brain.

    23. LH

      Hmm.

    24. CV

      And you did exactly what I thought you would do, which is you said, "It sounds like," you fired the brain, and then you opened yourself up to whatever your brain put in.

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    26. CV

      That's why I wanted you to actually say the words.

    27. LH

      It sounds like.

    28. CV

      The actual specific words.

    29. LH

      Yeah.

    30. CV

      Because your brain will kick into gear and say something.

  12. 44:26 – 53:11

    Forgiveness, unintended harm, and handling criticism without reacting

    1. LH

      Wow.

    2. CV

      And every human being is gonna hurt you, principally inadvertently, so you can go back to them and, and, and find out what's behind it and make them aware, 'cause they're gonna wanna know.

    3. LH

      Yeah. Every human being's gonna hurt you?

    4. CV

      Everybody one way or another is going to do something accidentally or on purpose that's gonna hurt your feeling.

    5. LH

      Mm.

    6. CV

      We're gonna, we're gonna interpret it as negative the vast majority of the time-

    7. LH

      Yeah

    8. CV

      ... when in fact it was probably a complete accident. There's a really good chance they got no idea they hurt your feelings.

    9. LH

      Right.

    10. CV

      You need to know which one it was.

    11. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    12. CV

      Did they do it on purpose? Do they know they did it? The numbers are that they did it by accident, and the other numbers are there's a really good chance they didn't know they did it.

    13. LH

      Right.

    14. CV

      You know, I went, I went to, uh, you know, a Land- Landmark forum a couple years ago.

    15. LH

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    16. CV

      S- uh, talking about making amends with people, talking to people who've hurt you.

    17. LH

      Yeah.

    18. CV

      And so one of the young ladies, uh-

    19. LH

      Did you go through the whole program?

    20. CV

      Yeah. One of the young ladies in it was like, "You know, when I was s- seven, this, a girl who's my cousin, you know, uh, they, they bullied me. You know, they said something, it hurt me. I, you know, it's 30 years, I haven't let go of it."

    21. LH

      Wow.

    22. CV

      So we talked about it, they talked about it, and she said she went, she decided to go to the person and just ... 'cause to forgive, to forgive is to let go. You know, not forgiving is like taking poison and hoping the other person dies.

    23. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    24. CV

      Right? You've heard that.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. CV

      So she goes to this girl and she says, "I want you to know I forgave." The girl didn't even remember it.

    27. LH

      She said what?

    28. CV

      She got no memory. She was just being a stupid kid at the time.

    29. LH

      Yeah.

    30. CV

      She had, you know, they were-

  13. 53:11 – 1:18:12

    Role-play tools: “That’s right,” no-oriented questions, anchoring, and exiting cleanly

    1. LH

      Yeah. Gotcha. That's good to know. What's a role-playing exercise that anyone could do with a friend, um, that would make them a better negotiator? In general.

    2. CV

      Try to get whoever you're talking to to say the magic two words, "That's right." Which means you gotta summarize where they're coming from. Bef- if you-

    3. LH

      Hmm.

    4. CV

      In, in any given interaction-

    5. LH

      [laughs]

    6. CV

      ... if you got a point you wanna make-

    7. LH

      Yeah

    8. CV

      ... before you make it, your trigger, you're not allowed to make your point.

    9. LH

      So give me an example.

    10. CV

      Um-

    11. LH

      And you want the other person you're role-playing with to say, "That's right."

    12. CV

      Okay. So you were telling me about critics.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. CV

      You're a high-profile guy. You're about helping other people, which means you get criticized a lot.

    15. LH

      That's right. [laughs]

    16. CV

      And when you get criticized, I mean, I, you know, I wouldn't say you're empathic, although you are.

    17. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    18. CV

      I would say you're probably more compassionate. Those are two different things.

    19. LH

      Hmm.

    20. CV

      Empathy is... You have to have empathy to be compassionate, but empathy is not compassion. Compassion is a next step. Empathy is a compassionate thing to do, genuinely understanding somebody. But there's a real fine line there. They're distinct things. And I think you have a tremendous amount of compassion for people. So you know that when someone criticizes you, they're attacking you.

    21. LH

      Mm.

    22. CV

      But you also know that they've been hurt and they're struggling. So you wanna know how to respond to them and have them better as a result of the interaction instead of coming back and making them feel worse. And you struggle with that because you're under attack.

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    24. CV

      And you're trying not to, you're trying not to fire back at them.

    25. LH

      Right. Yeah. That's right. There you go. [laughs] So you wanna have a conversation with someone...

    26. CV

      If you could summarize their point of view first.

    27. LH

      Uh-huh.

    28. CV

      Summarize the other person's... When, when you summarize the other per- what the other person's struggling with.

    29. LH

      In, in any type of deal-making?

    30. CV

      In any type of deal.

  14. 1:18:12 – 1:21:38

    Wrap-up: where to find Chris, three truths, and a definition of greatness

    1. LH

      It's great.

    2. CV

      I follow your stuff on Instagram.

    3. LH

      Oh, nice.

    4. CV

      And, uh-

    5. LH

      It's fun

    6. CV

      ... it's a great way to tap into some people that are putting out some short, sweet messages that, that, you know ... What I like to tap into the people that are helping other people get better, which is-

    7. LH

      Yeah, yeah

    8. CV

      ... which is what's on your, on your platform-

    9. LH

      Yeah

    10. CV

      ... which is why I like to follow it.

    11. LH

      That's great, man. Well, I wanna acknowledge you, Chris, for, for constantly transitioning from what you learned, uh, saving the world to actually helping everyday people-

    12. CV

      Yeah

    13. LH

      ... save their world.

    14. CV

      Yeah.

    15. LH

      You know, transferring those skills and, and sharing them with us. The thing I love about you is you dive deeper into the same thing and just try to spread it to more people. You're not trying to take on all these new things. You're just going into one thing that you're a master at-

    16. CV

      Yeah

    17. LH

      ... and really going deep.

    18. CV

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    19. LH

      Helping a lot of people save money, make money, and really have just better relationships. At the end of the day, it's relationship-

    20. CV

      Yeah

    21. LH

      ... that you're teaching.

    22. CV

      Yep.

    23. LH

      You're teaching how to be better in relationships, how to build bridges as opposed to- Um, creating walls between people

    24. CV

      Yeah

    25. LH

      So it's a lot of walls every day that we create

    26. CV

      [laughs] Yeah

    27. LH

      Whether it be the Starbucks, a hotel, uh, a hostage. And so I acknowledge you for the consistent work you're doing. I really value it, and I know a lot of people do as well.

    28. CV

      Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

    29. LH

      Um, I don't know if I asked you this question last time, so I'll ask you again and see if it changed. Imagine it's your last day on Earth many years from now.

    30. CV

      Wow.

Episode duration: 1:21:43

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